TurboLinux to Sell Wizpy Media Player Worldwide

MsManhattan writes "TurboLinux will attempt to lure Windows users over to the Linux operating system in baby steps this June when it starts selling its Wizpy media player worldwide. The pocket-sized device, which plays audio and video files, is really a Linux carrot of sorts, in that it also allows users to store a complete Linux desktop in its memory. You can plug the Wizpy into a PC's USB port and boot up the Linux system with all its user settings, passwords, bookmarks, etc. It originally launched in Japan, where TurboLinux marketed it to 'early adopters who are curious about using Linux but either don't want to or can't install the operating system.' The company will now target the same crowd around the globe, starting in the U.S., the U.K., Australia, India and Singapore."

Comments

any system?

[Turn-X Alphonse]

I want to know how this will work on any system when Linux is imfamous for it's lack of support for some hardware.

I can see a use for this, but it seems a broad claim for any Linux distro.

Re:any system?

[timmarhy]

just write your own drivers, GOD can't you do anything without being spoonhead you bonehead user! it's all your fault our OS can't handle many simple tasks

Re:any system?

[farkus888]

wireless cards require a fair amount of work that is beyond the "complete noobs" that this is targeting. other than that using generic drivers for ati or nvidia video cards will be enough to get just about every daily users computer up and running for them to have a look around. maybe the odd scanner will not work. dv and digital cameras and mp3 players that can't be switched to function as usb mass storage can be a hassle as well.

Re:any system?

[yogurtforthesoul]

I'm also worried about hardware support related issues. For instance, will it come with an adapter that will allow me to send a virus to an alien mothership?

Re:any system?

[Turn-X Alphonse]

you see that is the ironic thing. I switched to Linux for it's network card support. The software you had to run to config the card it in windows crashed within 10 seconds of booting. I used an Ubuntu live CD and my cards worked fine, I configed my new router and and then installed it. Ubuntu was absolutely wonderful compared to Windows.

Re:any system?

[timmarhy]

omg one isolated example - you totally proved me wrong!

Re:any system?

[farkus888]

wired card support is much better in linux than it is in windows. I have a couple of mobos with onboard 1 gig nic's that require a lot of work to run in windows. they install and run with 0 effort in every linux distro I've tried. even if it doesn't work out of the box the power is available to fix it yourself, instead of waiting for ms to decide its time to fix it for you. but thats an irrelevant point because the poeple they are targeting are not the kind of people who will be able to do that.

Re:any system?

[Stocktonian]

First of all the idea that Linux has bad support for hardware is an old myth that has been pretty much fixed in recent years. There are problem areas such as graphics and WiFi but Linux supports more hardware combinations than any other operating system. Graphics cards and WiFi just tend to be popular and give a bad impression.

Where Linux doesn't work 100% it does get pretty close and if you just want to stick your USB device in and get some work done it will almost certainly handle that. Assuming you can boot from USB, which I've noticed still causes problems in a lot of places.

---
http://www.linuxlaptops.eu/

Re:any system?

[Turn-X Alphonse]

I'm a Linux user, I know what is can do, but I'm playing devils advocate. If it doesn't work 100% of the time, people will be upset and not go "oh it's Linux" it will be "this crappy thing only works some times! why am I bothering!?"

Re:any system?

[wizardforce]

I want to know how this will work on any system when Linux is imfamous for it's lack of support for some hardware.

I think you have that backwards, hardware its infamous for its lack of Linux. the vast majority of drivers are written for windows and/or mac. were the situation reversed, windows and mac would be said to have a problem with hardware support too. but then again, that myth isnt true anymore, linux supports alot of hardware at least partially that windows throws a fit over.

I can see a use for this, but it seems a broad claim for any Linux distro.

no it isnt, you can already run damn small linux from *inside* another OS and live cds dont seem to have a problem working either albeit not inside the host OS.

Re:any system?

[dave420]

That changes absolutely nothing. You can't get the same use out of a hardware device that's not functioning simply because you know it's not its fault that it's not working. That's borderline insanity. The fact is, Linux has shitty hardware support. That's it. That's the bottom line. Until that's changed, however that should happen, projects like this are flights of fancy with very, very limited application. Because if it doesn't work, what's the point in having it?

Re:any system?

[wizardforce]

The fact is, Linux has shitty hardware support.

that's BS. Windows doesnt support A LOT of hardware- even some that Linux DOES support. the hardware that isnt supported out of the box by Linux certainly isnt by Windows.

Re:any system?

[ozmanjusri]

omg one isolated example

I've got plenty of hardware that's Linux only, a lot of which I got free or cheap when the owners upgraded to a version of Windows which obsoleted drivers. There's Matrox G200 MMS video cards that won't work under any version of Windows, but's fine with Linux, Half a dozen D-Link wireless cards that have never been supported on XP (I scored those for free when the company that bought them upgraded from '98), and more.

The thing is, the pool of drivers for Linux is increasing all the time as people get motivated to write support for their favorite toy. The pool of drivers for Windows is shrinking each time a manufacturer drops support for an older version.

Re:any system?

[timmarhy]

you must come from the department of we are going to talk nonsense to divert attention away from our failings.

seriously think about your argument there.... I just purchased a $300 device and linux doesn't work on it... what am i going to ditch first, the $300 or the free os?

Re:any system?

[timmarhy]

"Windows doesnt support A LOT of hardware- even some that Linux DOES support"

people keep flapping their gums about it but i don't see no proof bobby-joe

Re:any system?

[wizardforce]

heh... let me guess proprietary/company driver? did windows work out of the box on it? didnt think so.

Re:any system?

[wizardforce]

can you ever think of a time that windows supported hardware out of the box that linux didnt?

Re:any system?

[farkus888]

how often do you use linux to have real familiarity with its "shitty hardware support" when was the last time you had to install chipset drivers with a linux distro to get usb 2.0 or onboard audio working? I have to do it every time with fresh installs of XP, yes even SP2. don't just slander linux without naming specific devices that are an issue. those of us who use it admit wifi and 3d graphics are an issue. I don't ignore those issues because I feel its someone elses fault, I ignore them because I feel other advantages [speed, reliability, power] outweigh them. you will need to learn to work ndiswrapper or madwifi if you want wireless, but aside from people doing CAD and graphic design you don't need ultra high power 3d graphics except to game. and lack of games is more of an issue on that front than drivers are. especially considering most PC gamers I know have the knowledge to work a graphics driver out on their own. generic drivers will get you far enough to get recipes and driving directions off the web and check your email, all most people do on a daily basis. those people need to know there is something out there that can do what they need better and cheaper than windows and all on cheaper hardware as well.

Re:any system?

[farkus888]

not once, and I use both daily. the advantage for windows on that front is that windows drivers are easier for the computer illiterate to get running. 1 missing driver in a linux distro is harder for an average joe to fix than 5 windows drivers.

Re:any system?

[Anonymous Coward]

What have the Cardassians to do with this?

I know the Obsidian Order is behind all things bad, but surely you're paranoid if you think the prevent him from writing drivers...

Re:any system?

[Stocktonian]

I agree that there is some hardware out there that Linux doesn't run 100% on, but there is VERY little hardware that doesn't work at all.
Compare that to Apple who's software only runs on a very small set of hardware options, and Windows which has a lots of devices supported but the quality of those drivers is usually incredibly bad. By the way I don't think that is Microsoft's fault, but the hardware manufacturer. If they release open specs then it's Microsoft's fault.

I'd say Linux is the perfect choice for this, I can't think of another OS which would boot and provide at least a usable environment on such a wide range of hardware. The other OSes have some serious catching up to do if they're interested in being equivalent.

Re:any system?

[poopdeville]

No. Aliens use proprietary technology and Apple is the only terrestrial company to license it.

Re:any system?

[Anonymous Coward]

Never seen Knoppix in action?

Re:any system?

[gEvil (beta)]

GOD can't you do anything without being spoonhead you bonehead user!

Spoonhead? That's one I've never seen before. Maybe I should go add it to the Eggcorn Database...

Re:any system?

[Anonymous Coward]

Depends on your requirements. Most people would be smart enough to check that the devices would work with their OS before plonking down $300 on it. Even if you didn't do that and still spent $300, the people with a clue would contact the manufacturer and ask them for support; you just spend $300 on their hardware, after all.

Oh wait, was I supposed to say something like "I'd cry and stamp my feet, install Windows and then spend the rest of my days trolling the internet and telling everyone who shitty Linux is because it didn't magically support some random $300 widget I was stupid enough to buy and which the manufacturer doesn't provide any help or support for on Linux."? I wouldn't say something like that though, because such a scenario would be retarded.

Re:any system?

[DeathElk]

Your argument has no teeth, and highlights your own failings on this topic. If you drop $300 on a device or peripheral without doing a little homework to find out whether it is supported by OS of choice, then you have no-one to blame but yourself. There is unlikely to ever be global cross platform support between all digital hardware and software, so pre-purchase research is essential in all tech purchase situations.

Re:any system?

[mistermiyagi]

"Graphics cards and WiFi just tend to be popular and give a bad impression."

But aren't those the exact things that the average joe needs to work out of the box.

  I'm all for whats best for the job but I don't think the linux will ever get where it wants until things like this are fixed. I (assuming I am coming to linux from windows or os x ) shouldn't have to make any calls to figure out why my wifi or 3d cards aren't working properly(graphic card) or at all ( wifi ). If you want to convince people that linux is better or at the very least equal to windows or os x you need to make sure that you can have a VERY similar experience on linux as you do in windows and for me that means NEVER having to do more than double click on an executable driver install, enter my password and be done. No terminal no digging in the file system for locations of anything ,2 clicks password done.

I know Linux is super cool but Joe sixpack is not going to deal with very much more than what I just said. And for those of you who will claim to have converted people to linux I would like to know how many calls you get a month or year about some new gadget that needs to be set up. Because if its more than zero you have already lost to windows and mac os x. In a nutshell people need these systems to be so easy to use that it will irritate anyone with half a tech-savvy brain.

I didn't say you'd like it I just said it would be the truth.

Re:any system?

[mistermiyagi]

"Windows doesnt support A LOT of hardware- even some that Linux DOES support. the hardware that isnt supported out of the box by Linux certainly isnt by Windows."

How much of this hardware is stuff that the average joe would use?

  Also If you needed this hardware would it indirectly imply a base set of computer knowledge (e.g. a high end video editing card. or some network device designed for high end applications) Or are you talking about some exotic hardware that only real power users NEED. You have to consider who is making the purchase. If I am already on linux then I will already be serching for linux compatibility when I buy, but since we live in a windows (and increasingly OS X world) the everyday person ASSUMES such is already in place. IMO what everybody who is knocking linux as an alternative to Windows or Mac OS X is really saying is that until you can assume linux compatibility for %80+ of everyday hardware (printers, scanners, cameras, video cards , wifi cards ETC.) Linux will not even register a blip on the masses radar. Also some real marketing would really help to get that kind of support moving . Ubuntu TV commercial anyone.

Re:any system?

[Dragonslicer]

There are problem areas such as graphics and WiFi but Linux supports more hardware combinations than any other operating system. Graphics cards and WiFi just tend to be popular and give a bad impression.

Even worse, the problems are pretty much because of only three companies: nVidia, ATI, and Broadcom. If AMD really does force ATI's hand, nVidia may have to follow along in order to avoid completely missing out on a growing market. That would just leave Broadcom.

Re:any system?

[Anonymous Coward]

And for those of you who will claim to have converted people to linux I would like to know how many calls you get a month or year about some new gadget that needs to be set up. Because if its more than zero you have already lost to windows and mac os x.

What a load of crap. Want to know how many calls I get for Windows from friends and family? At least 1 per day, so 30 per month or 365 per year. How many calls have I received for the few I converted to Linux? Maybe 10-15 since conversion, well more than a year ago.

Re:any system?

[Yvan256]

First of all the idea that Linux has bad support for hardware is an old myth that has been pretty much fixed in recent years.

But old myths die hard.

I still encounter people who don't even know that Macs have been running Unix for the last seven years, or that they're not limited to one-button mouses, etc.

It may sound crazy, but maybe if Firefox had a default splash screen with logos and links to linux distros, they might become more popular. State how Firefox is free and open source and that the Linux OS is also free and open-source. Use the most popular Windows OSS program to spread the word about Linux.

Re:any system?

[pwainwright]

Example: I bought an HP travel mouse for my HP nx6125 laptop (dual-boot XP and Fedora Linux). It has never worked under XP. XP claims to detect it, and tries to download the right driver, but it never installed cleanly. I have removed, downloaded and re-installed the Windows driver repeatedly but still no dice. And this is just a bog-standard USB mouse.

So I gave up on Windows.

On the other hand, the Linux X window system has supported it from the start. No problem with running the mouse and touchpad simultaneously and no need to download any special drivers.

True story.

Design matters

[z0M6]

It looks decent enough: http://www.turbolinux.com/products/wizpy/

Re:Design matters

[dave420]

It looks like every other iPod knock-off out there :)

Re:Design matters

[gerrysteele]

And ipod look like a knock off of a technology that was around for years

Re:Design matters

[Anonymous Coward]

Sexy indeed. But would it work?
I don't know how they plan boot the OS. But a possible solution in addition to the default bios based boot media selection would be via a window executable that would load a boot sector program that in turn would either boot off the usb or delete/restore itself if target OS is not found. This is assuming it would not wreak havoc with boot sector protection systems.

This is just my two cents, I don't know much about computers. :P

Re:Design matters

[BigAssRat]

Proof that good names really come to you when under pressure in a meeting and you have to take a serious whiz.

But that's not all...

[Anonymous Coward]

It also doubles as a garage door opener!

Not really

[Rix]

Knoppix and other livecd based distros do pretty much the same thing.

Re:Not really

[dave420]

And not very well, so the issue still stands... Linux doesn't have as complete hardware support as some of the other OSs out there. Until that changes, this will have very limited use, as it only takes one unsupported component and you're screwed.

Re:Not really

[ozmanjusri]

Linux doesn't have as complete hardware support as some of the other OSs out there.

Linux has far better hardware support than any other OS out there.

It's extremely rare that you need to install any drivers on any modern distro. Mac supports a very limited hardware set, while Windows needs half a dozen drivers post-install just to get everything working.

In the context of a media player capable of booting from any modern computer, Linux much better placed than other OSs.

Re:Not really

[timmarhy]

"Linux has far better hardware support than any other OS out there. "

bullshit, and you know it. wireless drivers, onboard drivers, 3d accerleration. they all SUCK to install on linux. not to mention specialised stuff like hdtv tuners.

Re:Not really

[0232793]

ATI / Nvidia drivers??? If you want compiz / beryl u need these

Re:Not really

[dannycim]

"Linux has far better hardware support than any other OS out there. "

bullshit, and you know it. wireless drivers, onboard drivers, 3d accerleration. they all SUCK to install on linux. not to mention specialised stuff like hdtv tuners.

I challenge you to wipe your Windows HD, re-install everything from just a windows CD and see how much of that hardware works.

In my experience, out-of-the-box clean installs are generally easier and more complete in Linux.

Re:Not really

[farkus888]

I run beryl using onboard intel video that was installed and configured right out of the box in fedora. runs like a champ as long as I don't turn everything on at once.

Re:Not really

[ozmanjusri]

If you want compiz / beryl u need these

Sabayon and Kororaa both support Compiz/Beryl on live CDs. Why wouldn't TurboLinux do the same on their media drive?

Re:Not really

[farkus888]

that kororaa livecd runs beautifully on my radeon9600xt with no tinkering at all.

Re:Not really

[orangeyoda]

I've recently done this. Clean install of windows, gets a network connection up and running and i can get the drivers to install the rest of the cards. Red Hat -- Wifi drivers don't work , installed faq has a helpfull link to a Website on how to get your wifi card to work. Suse -- Same deal as redhat Knoppix -- does not support my wifi card Various LiveCD's don't support it either. Eventually what I had to do was remove all the PCI cards from my box, install 4 different pci wifi cards, 1 usb wifi card and then install Suse 10.0 (10.1 doesn't work with any of the cards ) , eventually it found one that it could use an RA2500 based card, but there was no setting for TKIP - instructions on a wiki on the web. bloody usefull I must say. Changed my settings on the router to WEP encryption and it suddenly starts working. figured out how it should be set up for TKIP and changed it back, and it stopped working after the reboot. Uninstalled suse, but the companies vista version on that box, spent 5 mins playing with the crap interface and wooshy effects, same with the java3D interface. uninstalled and put the initial win2k back on to it, left it for 8 hours while it auto patched itself, another 4 - 5 hours installing the server software, and my box was ready again. Until linux sorts out the basics, like having the help files on the install cd. Having TKIP working out of the box and not insecure WEP etc. I can't see myself using it.

Re:Not really

[gerrysteele]

Well you don't seem to actually know anything about the thing you are criticising. Well done. Out of the box a windows install is all but useless. Linux out of the box supports near on anything.

Re:Not really

[dc29A]

"Linux has far better hardware support than any other OS out there. "

bullshit, and you know it. wireless drivers, onboard drivers, 3d accerleration. they all SUCK to install on linux. not to mention specialised stuff like hdtv tuners.

Troll, but I'll bite.

Installing XP SP2 on either of my PCs (standard Asus board, Athlon X2) requires:
- Video driver (7600 GS)
- Audio (on board)
- Sata RAID (I can skip this and go with Window's builtin raid, but I'll lose the ability to put my C: drive on Raid0).
- Network
- Chipset

Feisty:
- Video Driver (if I really want it!, the nvidia driver is ok, of course upgrading to a proprietary driver = 3 mouse clicks + 1 password).

PS: Wireless worked out of the box for my laptop, something that didn't on Windows XP SP2.

Your mileage might vary!

Re:Not really

[sgc2000]

You should really be comparing Feisty with Vista as Feisty is reasonable new unlike XP. When I installed Vista (Intel board, P4) I didn't need to install any extra drivers to get it functioning. I had to install the nVidia drivers if I wanted 3D performance of course and I don't use RAID so I can't comment on that.

Re:Not really

[carl0ski]

you're clearly a troll

dont both talking rubbish

Linux has poor suuport for Hardware?

Tell that to my 2 x HDTV Leadtek TV Tuners that dont work in Windows at all

Where as they were plug and play in Suse 10.1 and 10.2

OUT of The Box

Tell that to my Brooktree 878 Analogue TV Tuner which only had Windows 95 drivers (no 2k or XP support)

Tell that to my Creative Audigy 2 which does not work in Windows XP correctly thanks to severe security measures Creative chose to use in their Drivers.

Linux OpenGL support for NVIDIA and ATI are equal/or Better to that in Windows especially Vista

but all of your points are irrelevant to a media player that boots a PC to allow you to access your Data, Web History and Music on the GO

Re:Not really

[Stevecrox]

Tried Vista with an internet connection?

I've had expearence with installing vista on four machines (all four had net connections) when Vista first booted it it went online downloaded all the drivers installed them and asked me to restart. These machines were all less than a year old and I agree on older machines you would be less likely to have a driver (i'm talking three or four years old.) Sure Vista sucks for out of the box driver support but this great thing called the interweb means it auto-installs alot of newer drivers. XP is not in the same league as Feisty Fawn and Vista for this, yet Feisty fawn lacks my web camera and tv card divers (which XP and Vista have.)

Re:Not really

[arashi no garou]

I know I'm feeding the troll here, but how does typing "sudo apt-get install nvidia-glx-new" in Linux suck worse than having to track down your outdated install CD and/or download and install the drivers from the website? In the first case, it's much easier (no fumbling with CDs) and in the second it's pretty much the same, minus having to open a browser and search for a download link. In fact, with apt-get there's no mouse clicks at all, unlike the InstallShield wizard used in Windows driver installs.

As for wireless, the last two Ubuntu-based distros I threw at a wireless laptop worked out-of-the-box with no driver installation period. Do that with a WinXP CD. Onboard drivers? I can honestly say that in the past five years I've yet to run across an onboard component that needed a separate driver installed; it's all in the kernel and/or default packages on nearly all Linux distros. I've never messed around with hdtv, so I have no comment in that area.

Bottom line, Linux has supported more hardware from the default install than any other OS for quite some time now. If you're a long-time resident of Slashdot then you already knew that and are a very poor troll.

Re:Not really

[Anonymous Coward]

Great, but what if: a) The computer being setup does not have an internet connection or b) The network card is not supported. In either case, Vista has next to no support. If someone wrote a Linux distro to do that (and they may already have), then it would be great, but calling that out of the box support in Vista is a lie. Vista is just "saving you time" by doing the driver hunt for you. Of course, if you had a network connection in XP, it could also search the web for drivers post-install.

Re:Not really

[mrogers]

I challenge you to wipe your Windows HD, re-install everything from just a windows CD and see how much of that hardware works.

That's a straw man - if a piece of hardware requires extra drivers for Windows, it comes with a driver CD. If you lose the CD you can easily download and install the drivers without ever seeing a command prompt, let alone recompiling your kernel or googling to find out where your distro stores its firmware images or a thousand other annoying little jobs. I love Linux and I use it exclusively, but I'm not blind to its weaknesses, and hardware support (especially for wireless cards, as the GP pointed out) is one of those weaknesses.

Re:Not really

[Anonymous Coward]

Sata RAID (I can skip this and go with Window's builtin raid, but I'll lose the ability to put my C: drive on Raid0).

And by putting your boot drive on a RAIDed volume, you've shown me that you're not someone I want to be taking computer advice from.

Re:Not really

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes and no.

A modern distro contains a ton of drivers, and if that is the hardware you are using it is miles ahead of the competition.
This even includes for automatic installation of closed source drivers, like nvidia.

However, if the hardware is not supported you are screwed. And unfortunately some very popular hardware falls into this category. For example the bcm4318 wireless chip in my laptop, which is supported out of the box after installing firmware, but has a rediculously short range and only 11Mbit support. Ofcourse you can use the windows driver using ndiswrapper, which solves these issues, but for some reason this sometimes works, sometimes doesn't.
This is perhaps related to the broken acpi bios in my laptop, but this is also a very common issue. Infact, edgy would not even boot without manual interference (setting noacpi), and feisty sometimes hangs on boot without this option.
And finally the webcam is not supported at all.

Now, I am not saying that windows is perfect, but as long it is the defacto standard, there will always be hardware which does not work on linux. And this does make linux harder to sell. I use it exclusively, but I cannot explain to my girlfriend that if you boot linux then, well, sometimes it just does not work, and a reboot is the only option. That means my whole story of linux being stable etc. is down the drain.

Re:Not really

[pla]

gets a network connection up and running and i can get the drivers to install the rest of the cards

Exactly - You missed the parent's point - It does NOT "just work" after a clean XP install. In your case, you got lucky and the single most annoying part to get working, the network, happened to come up okay. But all those other drivers that allows you to download, don't work OOB.



Eventually what I had to do was remove all the PCI cards from my box, install 4 different pci wifi cards

When Dell builds you a PC, they use all parts that either Microsoft (or their own testing) has certified as functioning under XP. If you checked for Linux compatibility BEFORE buying, you wouldn't need to randomly try four different cards.

Now, that doesn't excuse the fact that four cards simply didn't work well (or at all) under Linux - But literally thousands of people would jump at the opportunity to write those very drivers, if the manufacturers didn't make it as difficult as possible to get the necessary info.

Re:Not really

[Knuckles]

if a piece of hardware requires extra drivers for Windows, it comes with a driver CD. If you lose the CD you can easily download and install the drivers

What does this have to do with the topic of running the complete OS from a USB stick without any configuration?

Re:Not really

[jacksonj04]

Just done one, and a laptop no less. Worked perfectly first time, even the network drivers and the 3D acceleration.

Last time I tried a Linux distro on it (Ubuntu 7.4, about 8 hours ago) it refused point blank to even get to a desktop, bottling out at trying to load X.

Re:Not really

[BigDogCH]

I don't agree with the anti-linux banter, but most users can figure out how to goto ATI.com and find a driver (the ones who know what a driver is anyway). "sudo apt-get install nvidia-glx-new"? Is that English? For those of us who are still trying to make the conversion, it is a huge barrier.

Personally, I have had trouble with audio on both of my previous desktops (in Windows and Linux). The first desktop didn't have network support on the linux or windows install either. It has seemed to me, the driver support after a fresh install is similar on each......however Windows drivers are far easier to find and install. To give Linux its props, the GPU drivers were better in Linux (suse). .......however that only lasted until it wouldn't boot the GUI after switching monitors. Back to Windows..........I will give Linux another shot next year, maybe my time won't be as valuable.

Re:Not really

[bkr1_2k]

So it will work with my ATI All-In-Wonder out of the box? I don't think so. I'll not deny that modern distros have strong support, but to say it's better than windows because windows requires after-install driver loads is a bit silly. All OSes need that for certain hardware, it's a simple fact. The problem with Linux is that those after-install drivers are generally harder to find because they don't come with the damn device. It's getting better, but it's not there yet.

All that said, I think this little device will make some inroads that will be good for the linux community.

Re:Not really

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes. How will you ever live without compiz/beryl when you use your mp3 player to boot an arbitrary computer into your personalized desktop for some brief tooling around? If you can't have wobbly windows and burst-into-flames-on-exit, it's hardly worth even being able to carry some of your personal data and a means to access it at all.

Re:Not really

[TheThiefMaster]

You forgot:
Feisty:
- Have to manually edit xorg.conf to get resolutions above 1280x1024
- Have to manually edit xorg.conf to use more than 3 buttons on your mouse

Other than those (which there are guides on the net to sort out) I've had little trouble with Ubuntu Feisty and haven't booted into Windows since I installed it. I do miss a lot of my games though, wine's not too great (Counter-Strike Source runs in direct-x 7 mode) and few games have linux ports (I've got NWN and UT2004 working).

Re:Not really

[mbourgon]

What the hell are you talking about? Ah, you meant "by putting your boot drive on a RAID 0 volume"...

Re:Not really

[JasterBobaMereel]

Try installing vista on a PII with 128MB RAM ... Now try Fiesty ... which one works at all....

XP Will work with most obviously not obsolete hardware so Will most Linux Distros
Vista's hardware requirements break even relativly modern PC's so trying to use it on a media player is silly .. What about Windows CE it runs on more hardware than any other version of windows (Try Vista on an Alpha...)

Re:Not really

[Anonymous Coward]

Linux has far better hardware support than any other OS out there.

If this is true why are so many so up in arms about having pre-installed Linux and Linux certified stamped on Dell boxen?

You could very well be correct that the initial install of most Linux distros have more driver support then the retail versions of Windows and MacOS in their various flavors. Infact I would find it hard to contest that given the various OSS licenses that make it hard to keep the drivers from being distributed freely (as I understand it).

But! Let's not confuse this for the fact that Windows (I can not speak for MacOS) has more driver support overall. Sure, it may not come on the new system but normally the new systems have enough driver support to get the PC to where it needs to be to get the other drivers. Especially on retail store PC buys.

So, in effect, you're playing the part of a lawyer here. Sure, it has more support on the install disk but if I were running Linux only I'd be extremely cautious about buying any hardware I didn't know was Linux compliant out of the box. With Windows I don't have those concerns. That's the big difference, not just the install disk.

Re:Not really

[fwarren]

My wireless network card, depending on the linux distro, will often be going after the first boot. Depending on the distro of windows I am running....oh only one maker of windows and you know what, the driver for my card is not included out of the box.

As far as TKIP, you can drop to WEP or unencrypted long enough to get it going.

YMMV. However I can tell you for sure, every year Linux improves in wireless networking. Windows just keeps marking time.

Re:Not really

[gosand]

PS: Wireless worked out of the box for my laptop, something that didn't on Windows XP SP2.

We just bought a new laptop for my wife... and I went with WinXP. (thanks to Dell Small Business, I didn't have to go to Vista). I've been using Linux as my main OS since Redhat 6.2, and I currently run Kubuntu (6.10). Now the MAIN reason we went with XP is because it was my wife's machine and she does the finances on Quicken. Sorry, no FOSS software can compare and I have tried them.

I knew Dell had Ubuntu available, but I was still a little gun-shy. For a laptop, things like battery management, hibernate/suspend, and wireless were all critical. I am sure that Dell would have all this stuff pre-configured with Ubuntu, but to be honest I was more confident it would all work well on XP. Ubuntu wasn't offered on the laptop I got, which was a really good deal. If it had been, I may have paused to think about it, but I probably would have still gotten XP. I'll tinker with my machine, but don't want to have to do that on my wife's machine. And although we are light-years away from Redhat 6.2 in ease of use and the "tinker factor", the fact is that I still need to do it from time to time on my machine. (e.g. when I did the upgrade to 6.10, Xwindows wouldn't boot. Had to hand-edit the xorg.conf file.)

I am a very big supporter of Linux and FOSS, but I still think that there is a time and place for Windows. Although to your point about Windows drivers, I reinstalled her old PC with Win2k for our daughter to use. I had to hunt down all the hardware drivers, which was a huge pain. I had an ATI Rage Pro card in there and none of the legacy ATI driver packages from their website would install. I luckily found a CD with the drivers on it in my stash. And it was an old machine (Athlon 650 - slot!) so it wasn't like there was any specialty or new hardware in it. It would be interesting to compare that install to a Linux distro from 2000.

Re:Not really

[ColdWetDog]

You've got a fun job. Need any help?

Re:Not really

[Assassin_for_Atari]

I'm on your side Dan. On my main Desktop all I had to install was the nvidia binary, which *shocking* I had to do on windows for 3d support.

Windows, I had to install drivers for, video, sound, chipset, my gigabit network adapter and some other stuff.

Now I do wish there was "better" support for 3d video and wireless but at the end of the day its not linux's fault. Blame the people that keep the drivers closed up and along with the hardware its drive'n.

Re:Not really

[really?]

For a fair comparison take an XP CD and any Linux CD from the year 2000. Then tell me which is a better install experience.

I have an updated XP CD that has support for as many devices as any new Linux distro, so, the install is not at all painful regardless of which OS I chose.

Re:Not really

[reddburn]

Did you leave out the Mac on purpose? I've had to install OS X from scratch - new hard drive because the old one shipped with some serious flaws [legal matters kept me from allowing the "Geniuses" to do anything but remove the old hard disk and stick the new one in - company paid, and important data was backed up nightly to an external USB drive]. I had absolutely no problem reinstalling Tiger from the DVD. I had no hardware issues with printers, external connections, 3rd party monitors (I use two large widescreens), etc. I was up and running the same morning. The longest wait was actually at the damned Apple store (3 total hours at the store - it was just after Christmas and the genius bar had a much longer wait than usual).

Now, as you noted, the Windoze reinstalls (much more frequent - this was the first OS X reinstall I've ever had to perform) are a pain in the ass. Every six months, my wife's computer (running Me - worst M$ mistake ever) crashes and I get to play games with every company website in the world trying to get the right drivers - which never seem to install correctly through the OS - for various peripherals. I was waiting for Christmas to get her an Intel Mac (already have mine!), but I think I'll just buy it for her for our anniversary - yay Parallels! - because her windows box is already acting funny.

Re:Not really

[sgtrock]

You forgot:

Feisty:

- Have to manually edit xorg.conf to get resolutions above 1280x1024

- Have to manually edit xorg.conf to use more than 3 buttons on your mouse

Strange. I didn't have to do that during my Kubuntu installs. Did you really have to do that with a standard Ubuntu install?

Re:Not really

[Wolfrider]

--Suse 7.3 DVD install was actually really good back in the day. Reiserfs and LVM supported out of the box. (22 October 2001)

--XP was originally released in Oct 2001, as well.

See:
http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/archives/000646.h tml

Re:Not really

[mrogers]

Very little - it's called topic drift. ;-)

Price

[CowboyBob500]

4Gb for $278? No thanks.

Bob

Re:Price

[simong]

You do have a DSP and an FM Radio in there for your 4Gb. It would be interesting to see if a homebrew one is possible *scratches chin*

Re:Price

[timmarhy]

that was my first thought as well, 4g what a rip

Re:Price

[thebdj]

1) Exchange rates our notoriously bad at reflecting the actual MSRP. I wouldn't be surprised to see this closer to $249.99 US. That said, most places will probably sell it for less. I doubt TurboLinux will be as bitchy about MSRP as Apple is with the iPod.
2) A 4 GB iPod Nano has an MSRP of $199 with a slightly smaller (.3" diagonal less) LCD (instead of OLED) display. Also, the Wizpy (ugh, bad name) also has a full blown Linux distro, so it is probably similar to carrying around DSL (damn small linux, in case you didn't know) on a USB thumb drive.
3) Other non-iPod Nano features: FM radio, Voice Recorder and Video support (unless someone can tell me otherwise).

In the end, wait to see what this actually sells for in the US.

Re:Price

[Your Pal Dave]

You do have a DSP and an FM Radio in there for your 4Gb. It would be interesting to see if a homebrew one is possible *scratches chin* Amazon has a 4GB Sandisk Sansa with FM, recording, 1.8" screen for $122. That less than half of the price of the Wizpy!

Re:Price

[ildefonso]

Hi!

It is hard for an small company to produce low-priced products. I have tried, and even an small and simple device that you could get in the market for around US$80 ~ 100, I can't go under US$150 in sell price.... why?: I'm producing small quantities, maybe if I go to 1000-10000 units at a time, I could go under US$100, or maybe under US$50, but I'm producing very small quantities: about 5 ~ 15 units at a time.

Anyway, when you go embedded, you need to optimize the code a lot in order to reduce memory and processor requirements and reduce the overall cost of your solution. When you reduce processor and memory a lot, you reduce costs, but you also reduce the possibility of expanding your product: that's something many companies do, and that's why you get "cheap" devices, but they are not expandable, many users don't care about that, and the companies know that.

I hasn't reviewed the Wizpy (I'm still looking for the hardware features, but I don't see them :( ), I think they just have oversized processor and ram size, which is good and bad.

Does anybody knows what are the hardware specifications for the wizpy?

c-ya!

I'm waiting for Apple to do this with iPods

[Timesprout]

With the market share iPods enjoy it has to be a massive temptation to stick OSX on them and let users boot off them to help drive Mac hardware sales. It's not a strategy without risk but it potentially offers them a much greater share of the market very rapidly if they decide volume sales are the way to go.

Re:I'm waiting for Apple to do this with iPods

[dave420]

You'd have more chance getting a Windows system to do this, simply because it has better hardware support. OS X only supports Mac hardware, whereas Windows supports a whole slew of devices out of the box. Sure it's not everything, but it's a lot more than OS X and Linux.

Re:I'm waiting for Apple to do this with iPods

[VE3OGG]

Wouldn't this cut into Apple's hardware sales, the true Cash Cow for the company? What would be the incentive to distribute its OS on the iPod so that any schmuck can use OS X without Apple hardware. And if it could only be used with Apple hardware, isn't OSX already on it? I just don't see the benefit...

Re:I'm waiting for Apple to do this with iPods

[Anonymous Coward]

Windows supports a pathetic amount of hardware. However, most hardware does support Windows through some awful drivers provided by the manufacturer. However, that's not available at install time unless you either manually integrate new drivers into the cd or use DriverPacks.

Re:I'm waiting for Apple to do this with iPods

[simong]

I've been waiting for the mythical OS X for PC since the Intel move was announced, but the way in which the iPhone has been released has made it less likely again. Hardware is one of Apple's revenue streams, and they can pretty much define what components go in that hardware, and can therefore build OS X to support those components. A white box OS X would have to support a wider range of hardware than the current lines (although I wouldn't be surprised if OS X supports what is generally currently available in dual core laptops, for example), and as OS X should Just Work, there is no space for any hacking for that £15 Chinese USB wireless dongle, just as there is no space for user apps in OS X on the iPhone. So it isn't going to happen soon.

Re:I'm waiting for Apple to do this with iPods

[Timesprout]

Wouldn't this cut into Apple's hardware sales, the true Cash Cow for the company?

Cash cow for how much longer though? iPod/itunes/iPhone/iTV are expected to bring in the cash now. Maybe you missed them dropping the 'Computer' recently. But its a valid point, can they make more charging for OSX on an iPod than possible drops in hardware sales.

What would be the incentive to distribute its OS on the iPod so that any schmuck can use OS X without Apple hardware.

Because every schmuck has an iPod and it already has credibility as a quality product. If Apple can make a decent implementation people will buy Macs for the full experience. Obviously this is not totally straightforward and as I said, there are risks. Apple has little experience with most manufacturers so there is a lot of work to be done.

And if it could only be used with Apple hardware, isn't OSX already on it? I just don't see the benefit...

The benefit is to reach a much broader market who would pay a little extra for their iPod with OSX that ran on generic hardware which they then replace with a Mac. Its an attractive proposition for users and they shift so many units the potential rewards from software sales alone are huge, particularly now with people reluctant to upgrade to Vista. God knows the market is gagging for a convenient alternative and Apple have a large existing customer base and a delivery system. Get it to work and stick it on iTunes as an update or option and watch all the downloads.

Of course it could backfire on them and damage the brand name. Maybe Apple feel small market share and high margins should continue to be their strategy, but really they were only ticking over until the iPod sales kicked in. They currently have no financial need to do this but I would be surprised if it's something they have not at least considered.

Re:I'm waiting for Apple to do this with iPods

[caffeine_high]

I hope you are not holding your breath waiting for this ;-)

Re:I'm waiting for Apple to do this with iPods

[VE3OGG]

Cash cow for how much longer though? iPod/itunes/iPhone/iTV are expected to bring in the cash now. Well iTunes still doesn't make Apple much money last I heard, the iPhone has yet to be released, so really there is no idea whether it will be a hit or not, only speculation, and the iTV has widely been seen with lackluster (probably one of the reasons Apple is trying to push the iPhone, to cover up for the iTV. The only solid cash Apple is seeing is from the iPod (which is, no doubt, considerable.

Because every schmuck has an iPod and it already has credibility as a quality product. If Apple can make a decent implementation people will buy Macs for the full experience. I don't think that means what you think it means For Apple to have a qualified product, it would need a helluva lot of drivers written up. I would hazard a guess and say that Apple products (where the drivers are written by Apple and not a third party) have far fewer drivers available than Linux, and even Linux is problematic on hardware. Not to mention, most people are morons when it comes to technology -- if their iPod runs Mac OS X (and think of the sheer number of people that would run it), and it doesn't suck (which I am not convinced of, see: drivers) then there would be no incentive because it doesn't suck. If it did suck, then again there would be no desire to upgrade and it would sully the Apple brand.

Besides, if Apple was going to do something like this, it would be far more beneficial (although stupid, IMHO) to release it as a DVD-install like Windows. To compensate for a lack of Apple hardware, they would probably be charging $150 USD for it -- now figure that if it went the way you are proposing, that would be $150 USD on top of the iPod price, and there is still no guarantee that they'd switch. At least if they are buying the software (and let's face it, most people just take whatever is pre-installed on the system) they might consider buying hardware at the same time.

Re:I'm waiting for Apple to do this with iPods

[laffer1]

The iTV will eventually sell well. Right now most people don't want to pony up for a new TV and the iTV. I know 2 people with HDTVs and only one of them has one in their living room. Until there is mass adoption of HDTV, the number of people who would benefit from an iTV or a Blueray/HD-DVD player are small. I planned to buy an iTV as soon as they came out, but the $700 for a TV plus the $300 for the iTV changed my mind.

Mandetory

[quakehead3]

Imagine a Beowulf Cluster of these!

The major problem I see here...

[dteichman2]

Of the 4 GB, 1.2 is for the Linux stuff. This leaves you with 2.8 GB of space. That's not very much for a $300 (rounded) media player. At least give this thing a couple SD expansion slots or something!

Re:The major problem I see here...

[Anonymous Coward]

According to engadget, there's a version with a SD expansion slot in the works.

"Wizpy"? That's like Wii times two, right?

[Anonymous Coward]

Nintendo had a great success with a game console whose name sounds like a word for urination.

So TurboLinux now comes out with a device whose name sounds like two words for urination.

Re:"Wizpy"? That's like Wii times two, right?

[PrescriptionWarning]

I guess sex sells right... well if you're R. Kelly these would sell

for the rest of us they should just call it the EjacuBox

Re:"Wizpy"? That's like Wii times two, right?

[CapnRob]

No, no. It's a typo. It's really wiz.py ; they're selling a Python-based music player. All Python, all the time.

Re:"Wizpy"? That's like Wii times two, right?

[feedmetrolls]

I guess with the idea of Miis it would also be possible to write your name with your Wii. Better get some snow...

Can this be used to remove spyware?

[kahei]

Is it possible for a device like this to circumvent XP to the point where it can be used to delete files/kill processes that are being protected by freindly spyware processes?

I've been confronted by several XP machines that have spyware which can pretty much never be removed within XP, but which also don't run Knoppix or other 'lite' linux distros. Unless they happen to have a floppy drive for a DOS boot disk, it's a major pain removing spyware.

A Linux USB stick might help, depending on how it's implemented...

Re:Can this be used to remove spyware?

[the unbeliever]

I haven't run into the spyware yet that the adaware/spybot/cwshredder combo won't fix, when you run the aforementioned in safe mode.

Re:Can this be used to remove spyware?

[FST777]

You're lucky. I have. External booting (LiveCD, USB) is then the answer. BartsPE is nice, Knoppix can do the trick too, if you know where to look.

With the right tools, this gadget might be helpfull. But a thumbdrive loaded with Linux is just as handy, and less costly.

Re:Can this be used to remove spyware?

[wizardforce]

if you can install the ntfs write driver support then yes, you can do surgery on XP. you essentually have root [admin] powers when you use a live cd or likely the wizpy so you can do just about anything- including accidentally crippling XP. even better though would be just to extract what you need, nuke XP and install linux from the thing like a live cd :)

Re:Can this be used to remove spyware?

[Anonymous Coward]

eh forget that last line... /. doesnt like jk between carrots...

Re:Can this be used to remove spyware?

[an.echte.trilingue]

I am not sure that I would call knoppix a lite distro. SLAX really is lite, and it has a subproject devoted to USB stick installs, although AFAIK nobody sells it like that.

It also has a bunch of tools devoted to security, but IMHO reinstalling XP from your system restore disks is easier and usually faster and more reliable than trying to "clean" a compromised PC.

Take care,
-mat

Re:Can this be used to remove spyware?

[Frosty Piss]

I am not sure that I would call knoppix a lite distro. SLAX really is lite

I'm not sure that SLAX really is a "lite" distro. I have a blank piece of paper and a pen thats a bit liter, but it takes a while to compile.

Re:Can this be used to remove spyware?

[rapidweather]

Slax does not seem like a "lite" disto, because it runs a 2.6 kernel, kinda slow on many older PC's still in use today. A 2.4 kernel is much "lighter". Size (installed apps) does not matter as long as it fits on the CD, since you are not going to use all the applications at once.

Any Knoppix distro, or remaster of Knoppix, like mine, (see screenshots, below) can be used to work with an XP install that is having problems. You don't need a linux distro on a USB stick to do that, the CD will work, and will run on computers that don't have the USB boot option in the bios.
Look through a copy of Knoppix Hacks, by Kyle Rankin for all that Knoppix can do for Windows. Most bookstores have a copy you can look at for free. The book in the link has Knoppix based on Version 3.4, which will boot on almost any computer. I did remaster that, and have much improved it over the past two years of development. For instance, for a boot: prompt, I have bright yellow on a black background, Knoppix has pale grey on a black background. (that's the logo16 file) Hard to see, especially if you have to enter a long series of commands and Knoppix cheatcodes.

I have fixed a Dell Inspiron 1505 with it, repartitioning the hard drive, and assisting with an XP reinstall by obtaining necessary Dell drivers. Be advised, that the Dell restoration CD does not contain all of the drivers for a particular PC, and you may have to get nearly 60% of them from Dell via download. the Knoppix CD can do that for you until you get XP restored to the point where it can get it's own drivers.
One item to remember with Knoppix, it can see inside all partitions on the PC, whereas XP may not in all cases. You need to know what is on the PC, and in what partition. Important on Dell PC's where Media Direct is installed on the machine in a partition, and also the all-important Restoration Partition (caps mine) that you will need to sucessfully use the Dell restoration CD.

Now for a shameless plug: (kindly bear with me)
Since I placed all of the Debian font packages (that are compatible) in my Knoppix Remaster, the web pages look better on Rapidweather Remaster of Knoppix Linux using Firefox 2.0.0.4 (yes, I can run that) than on XP. Or Vista, for that matter. For most users, it's how the web pages look that matters. Later versions of Knoppix have cut the fonts down too much for me, same is true for Damn Small Linux. So, their desktops, browsers don't look as good as they need to be.

-Rapidweather

Re:Can this be used to remove spyware?

[Ex-MislTech]

also to see processes that don't show up use "process explorer" by the sysinternals folks.

Re:Can this be used to remove spyware?

[sootman]

What kinds of machines do you have that a) CAN'T boot something that's been out for years like Knoppix but b) CAN boot from a USB drive?

Re:Can this be used to remove spyware?

[kahei]

Well, all modern PCs can boot from a USB drive. Knoppix et al has severe problems with most PCs that I have contact with including:

--All small form factor PCs (shuttles etc)
--Most PCs that have mobo gfx/sound and then *also* a gfx card
--Various other PCs for no reason.

The big problem (with Knoppix specifically) is getting it to boot at all, so it's not a matter of having exotic devices -- I wouldn't need those anyway for de-spywaring.

So a more robust distro with a different boot method could be very useful.

Name matters

[monk.e.boy]

What a great Scrabble score you'd get.

It's up there with 'Kwyjibo' (google it ;)

monk.e.boy

iPOD wanna be = wizpy = iPhone (2G)

[dcnarad]

With VOIP, E-mail, browser, office and radio, this sounds more like a iPhone all they need to put in this is a larger screen and 3G mobile network capability and it will become iPhone 2nd Generation killer

Re:iPOD wanna be = wizpy = iPhone (2G)

[gripen40k]

I think you are confused; the voip, email, browser, and office tools only work when you boot up from a PC using the wizpy. You can't use the apps without a PC handy.

I see it now

[Anonymous Coward]

Plugs in iPod -> Windows Update comes along -> restart -> God dammit M$ have changed everything around again!

Is this really the right platform?

[SomethingGeneric]

If their goal really is to make Linux available to the curious masses, is this the right platform? In my opinion, it would be better to make such a push on a platform people almost everyone is comfortable on, the PC. Why haven't we seen a big push through the various media platforms to make Linux visible? I would love to see things like live CDs shipped with mainstream magazines, a few commercials, CD distribution in retail stores etc. As for the device itself, I agree with previous posts about too little storage. If the device doesn't have slots for external flash memory it is useless to me.

FAIL

[originalnih]

Does nobody who uses Linux understand marketing? How can you have an article about a portable media player WITHOUT ANY FUCKING PICTURES?

Complete and utter failure. Stop making such a big deal over each little cutesy change to your OSes and start making them a way of life. You should expect the best, not beg for it.

missing the point

[sentientbrendan]

the point is that drivers *exist* and *work* for windows, but they don't *exist* or don't *work* for linux. If it's *impossible* to get hardware to work properly for linux, that's a real problem. Hardware problems are the #1 thing keeping the linux desktop/laptop in eternal limbo... Even my ubuntu install on fairly common hardware has issues...

As for OSX... that's a whole different ballgame. You rarely hear "this hardware didn't work perfectly" complaints from mac users, but that's because most of the core system is designed or handpicked by apple. Aside from that the main video card venders always have decent (if not 100% as good as windows) drivers for mac.

hardware support

[sentientbrendan]

they'd run into a ton of hardware support issues... the range of computers that osx will run on right now is pretty minimal. If they ever sold generic x86 they'd probably be selling it in partnership with dell or some "apple clone" manufacturer.

Besides, with apple's brand they really wouldn't need that kind of marketing.

Wizpy vs. Foleo - a Linux marketing lesson

[Zigurd]

This is a great illustration of how to use Linux correctly in creating a commercial product. That is, not just correctly license-wise, but in getting the most market benefit out of using Linux. Wizpy offers power users and opinion leaders a useful, attractive, and powerful tool. Surely a lot of Wizpys will be sold to this specific audience, and that will give Wizpy a leg up on all the other contenders in the media player business.

Or, look at it this way: When someone asks "Why buy a Wizpy?" there is a specific answer. SanDisk's and Creative's players are nice, too. But what is the answer to "Why buy a SanDisk, or a Creative?"

In contrast, Palm's Foleo is a huge missed opportunity. It runs Linux, but only incidentally, and only in service to a weird product formulation that manages to subtract value from what could have been a nifty Linux subnotebook. Even on blogs that generally welcome new Linux-based products, the questions about Foleo is "Why does this even exist?"

There's nothing magic here

[ethernode]

I just wanted to point out: why does nobody else provide this? A separate bootable partition can be added to (almost) any mass storage device and boot on (almost) any (modern) computer. There's no magic in here (just a LiveUSB distro), so why is this device presented as a revolution ? The same will come within OpenMoko, discussion is open: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Wishlist:LiveUSB_dis tro

That's not my experience

[Rix]

I've never had trouble booting Knoppix, and I've thrown it into a lot of random systems. It performs a hell of a lot better than than a plain XP install, especially since you have to pull shenanigans to even get the boot disk won't even recognize the disk controller on modern systems.

Two opponents at once?

[BecomingLumberg]

So, let me get this right. In order to promote Linux (and defeat MS at their game) we first have to sell a whole bunch of these digital media players (and thus defeat Apple at their game)?

Well, that will be easy.

Two main points

[DrYak]

So the two main points to make wider Linux marketshare are :

- Have system builders that hand-pick components known to work with Linux distros. Both small Linux shops and initiatives from large manufacturers like Dell shipping Ubuntu on some computers will help. If they build machines on which Linux just installs(tm), that will be a nice step forward.

This will be much more creative than bitching whose OS is better for a clean install and throwing personal anecdotes at each other as arguments. (Yes, I know you can find WiFi cards that don't work on Linux out of the box. On the other hand you can also find server that are completely supported in Linux - Chipset, RAID controllers, etc. - whereas under Windows you need to pop several floppy disks just to get the install started. It's just a matter of who selected the hardware and for what purpose)

- Put pressure on the makers of chips used in WiFi, GFX Cards, etc... to release enough specs so the community will be able to write a decent opensource driver.

This is the only possible solution. Keeping a stable ABI or using shims/BLOBs is a fundamentally bad idea. Unless you want to bring Windows' "my printer drivers made the whole system crash" stability to Linux. And accompanying driver portability on anything but x86 architecture (Do I really need to bring the subject of driver availability under Windows XP 64bits edition ?). If the drivers aren't GPLed, drivers produced by manufacturer aren't that much useful.

Still too expensive

[dharbee]

http://accessories.us.dell.com/sna/productdetail.a spx?sku=A0741431&cs=19&c=us&l=en

That has 8GB and all of the features you list.

Always FM, never DAB (Digital Audio Broadcasting)

[deragon]

Ugh... Why is it so hard to find DAB devices? I want DAB (Digital Audio Broadcasting) on my radios along with FM... They still build radios with cassette players, but no DAB. Nobody cares about cassette players anymore but people would love DAB if it was available.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_audio_broadca sting
http://www.cab-acr.ca/drri/index.shtm

As always GREAT Name!

[Anonymous Coward]

"Would you like to listen to my whizz-pee?"

"Why yes hon, yes I would." (kick in the groin)

Early Adapters?

[Snowgen]

It originally launched in Japan, where TurboLinux marketed it to 'early adopters who are curious about using Linux but either don't want to or can't install the operating system.'

TurboLinux was introduced in 1992; that's 15 years ago. What bizarre definition of early adapter includes those jumping on the bandwagon 15 years later?

Re:Early Adapters?

[FishWithAHammer]

What bizarre definition of early adapter includes those jumping on the bandwagon 15 years later?

CGA enthusiasts.

Re:Early Adapters?

[Anonymous Coward]

*ahem*

I can't find my damned password, and my turbolinux.com e-mail is no longer operational to reset it, but I used to be "turbojustin" here on /. with a bit of karma to boot. I was the tenth employee ever hired by TurboLinux, was laid off -- twice, and held seniority over a CEO and the rest of the company for some time, so I'm self-proclaiming myself the official unofficial TurboLinux historian, and will take it upon myself to update the wikipedia page you no doubt sourced for your comment. You'll be hard pressed to find as consistent of history from the company's founder, Cliff Miller, or from any of the current staff in Asia. It's not entirely clear to me if they have anything more than a mailing address here in SF bay area, USA.

(a) TurboLinux, the CD-ROM based GNU/Linux distribution, was not introduced in 1992, the Linux kernel was created in 1991, so there was really nothing but yggdrasil and such around that time, if that. I believe 1992 is when Pacific HiTech was founded as a competitor to Walnut Creek CD-ROM serving the pacific rim, and began exclusively distributing Red Hat in that area. Our engineers also wrote the first Asian character set support in Glibc and wrote most of Anaconda before "TurboLinux" ever existed. We got into an argument with Red Hat over something or other, as the story goes, and decided instead of acting as a liason for RH, that we would launch our own RH-based distro for Asian customers. This evolved into a USA-ian product offering which was never very healthy and centered around TurboCluster, a glorified Linux Virtual Server / heartbeat which, fairly enough, included a great deal of F/OSS code authored by PHT employees. TurboLinux was, btw, released originally as a product of PHT -- Pacific HiTech -- and at some point after this and before a failed merger with LinuxCare, the name was changed to TurboLinux and the TLNX symbol was reserved on NASDAQ.

(b) Fuel cells were created over one hundred fifty years ago, and first used by NASA fifty years ago, but if one of your friends owned a car powered by one, you'd consider them an early adopter. GNU/Linux was first used by NASA less than 15 years ago.

(c) Early adopters within an organization or community are the folks who bring a new idea or technology to them. If that group is not "typical" computer geeks, e.g. maybe it's visual or recording artists, or a group of independent CPAs, then a product like this which is *supported* may actually have a leg up. Sure, I can try to install OSX on my iPod, but Apple doesn't want to hear from me. This is a strong step past Knoppix for turnkeyness, and it's a strong offering for people who may not own computers of their own. Personally, I want something like an iPod which is designed in step with an OS product such that my userdata is stored translucently and encrypted - I sort of have this hacked up atm.

Thanks for playing! ;)

Did I miss something?

[theTrueMikeBrown]

or, did someone already welcome them as overlords?

Let me just say, I'm all for working in those underground sugar caves.

Finally, a name worse than the Wii

[jollyreaper]

The Wii sounded like both a child's name for the penis and the act of urination. The Whiz-pee sounds like urination raised to the second power. I don't know whether to applaud or cry.

Am I missing something?

[Anonymous Coward]

The pocket-sized device, which plays audio and video files, is really a Linux carrot of sorts, in that it also allows users to store a complete Linux desktop in its memory.

You mean unlike a USB jump drive?

I don't know how anyone can see this as a step towards Linux adoption but if it makes you happy to think so...

This level of Linux has existed for years. It's a neat way to be able to have a Linux system without having to dedicate a system to Linux and have the option of running it elsewhere. This certainly isn't a magic bullet.

Re:Always FM, never DAB (Digital Audio Broadcastin

[simong]

There is a standards war of sorts going on with DAB. The far east and new adopters are moving to AAC/AAC+ for encoding whereas we have settled with MP2, but might have to roll out AAC for compatibility, which will make all existing digital radios obsolete. And of course, the US has hardly touched it at all.

4Gb + PMP, RTFA

[Anonymous Coward]

It has a 1.7-inch OLED (organic light emitting diode) color screen and keypad on the front. Within is software to play music in Ogg, MP3 and Windows Media Audio formats, and to show XviD and MPEG4 video files and JPEG images. It can also record sound to MP3 files and display text files, and has an FM radio.

RTFA... It even says in the title of the post that it's a MEDIA PLAYER not a MEMORY STICK. Sure it's no iPod nano, but that's why it can play XviD, MPEG4, and OGG Vorbis.

Name Origins

[Anonymous Coward]

Product Manager: Okay, the product is finished now all we need is a good name.
Marketing Guy 1: Wait just a minute, I need to take a wizz.
Marketing Guy 2: Me too. I have to pee.
Product Manager: (scratching chin) Wizz... pee... Wizpy!! You guys have done it again!

Wireless/USB MP3 players?

[Colin Smith]

Anyone recommend one?

can't....stop...lauging

[Anonymous Coward]

"attempt to lure Windows users over to the Linux" ... "really a Linux carrot of sorts" ...

can't...stop...lauging...long...enough...to...type

I can see the user documentation now:
"Playing a song is easy, simply type "sh> play -song dance.mp3" to set the volume, type "sh> play -song dance.mp3 -volume 90" You don't like how to access the songs? Tough. Build an interface yourself, we have better things to do.

The iPod succeeded on the simplicity of the user interface. How are you going to get people to switch to a domain where people don't give a rat's ass about UI and simplicity? Even so, the iPod "halo" effect was greatly exaggerated.

FrankenTurbo

[Anonymous Coward]

I can't believe it, but FrankTurbo still lives!!!

rose-colored glasses

[Anonymous Coward]

"This is a great illustration of how to use Linux correctly in creating a commercial product."

How so? 99% of the audience won't care if it runs Linux, Unix, Windows, etc. Just as long as it works and is easy to use. The idea that the device will help to generate a greater interest in Linux is spurious at best.

"When someone asks "Why buy a Wizpy?" there is a specific answer."

This assumes they care about the answer you give them. If 99% of the market doesn't care about Linux or using the device to boot from and carry around data, etc. (any similar device that is), your "answer" doesn't mean much.

"But what is the answer to "Why buy a SanDisk, or a Creative?"

To 99% of the market it is to play music.
The other "why's" are features and price.

"Wizpy offers power users and opinion leaders a useful, attractive, and powerful tool."

Says who? Are you on the marketing staff? And who are these "opinion leaders"?
There's no way in hell this works in the corporate world, where things are so tightly locked down and usb boot devices are no-no's. The commercial (public) world doesn't give a crap about booting that way either.

"...and that will give Wizpy a leg up on all the other contenders in the media player business."

Hardly. If it fails as a media player in the first place, it will sink faster than you can say "vaporware". Multi-function devices have always had this problem.

Re:rose-colored glasses

[Zigurd]

How so? 99% of the audience won't care if it runs Linux, Unix, Windows, etc. Just as long as it works and is easy to use."

Above all else, that is just wrong.

Of course people care, otherwise why would this be news?

The whole point of my comment is that people now care about this, and you can add value through the use of open source software, or you can try to smother it in a layer of crud and end up subtracting value.

Oh for $deities sake

[Toby_Tyke]

I hate these arguments, because neither side will ever actually admit the others strengths.

If you install any major Linux distro, most, if not all hardware will work automagically with no need for any manual driver installation. However, you might come across some hardware which either will not work at all, or will need some considerable tweaking to get working.

If you install XP SP2, every single piece of consumer hardware you own that's less than six years old will be supported*(see footnote 1). However, you might need to manually install them from CDs or by downloading from the vendors website.

Can we please stop pretending that XP is a complete nightmare to install, and that Linux requires you to compile drivers from source and tweak a dozen config files to get a soundcard working *(see footnote 2).

Footnote 1
Yes, I expect someone reading this will own something that doesn't work in XP, but honestly, I have not seen a single piece of hardware in the last six years that's not XP compatible.

Footnote 2
To the parent. I'm not suggesting you did either of these things. In, fact, your point is fairly reasonable. Your post was just the one in this thread I happened to be reading when I decided to post this. Having said that, your reply and the comment you replied to do perfectly illustrate what I'm talking about. One person screaming Linux has poor hardware support, the other talking about the need to add drivers to XP post install. Both ignoring the other systems strengths, and focusing only on weaknesses.

Nokia N800

[Anonymous Coward]

would be my vote!

it's only US$100 more... plus, you don't have to plug it into anything, as it is a computer and fits in your pocket!

Re:Not One, But Two Urine Refs In The Name - gg!

[Falladir]

A wiz is someone who's good at something. It's short for "wizard." You're thinking of "whiz."

Additional feature

[xinjiang77]

Can they self destruct like the Wisps from Warcraft 3?

Wow! Lack lateral problem solving skills much?

[Neo_piper]

So your main gripe is that you couldn't be bothered to hook a Ethernet card to your computer to read the online documentation?
Seriously if you are going to the trouble of swapping out 4 other PCI cards you might as well just move the computer and do an off site installation.
Trolling aside the lack of readily available offline, printed or installed, documentation for any Linux Distro is one of the major problems holding Linux back from wider adoption.

Not in my experience

[brianary]

Whenever I reinstall Windows, the network drivers--the ONLY drivers I need to download the rest--NEVER WORK.

I'm not talking marginal hardware here, either. Most recently: my 6-month old Dell.

Whenever I install Ubuntu (e.g.), the network and everything else works, no problem. I can be using Ubuntu before I'd be done trying to determine the model number of my DVD drive to get the right driver from support.dell.com.

HIRE AMERICANS!!!!!

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm sorry, it just really pisses me off when the big, shiny advertising portion of a website reads like this:

No need to drag unwieldy personal computer to your office, or to your business trips anymore!
Multimedia features from playing and recording movie and music to radio to ebook are all put together in one compact body.
You can carry the whole Web input history data with you.
No trace of history data is left in the PC you use. Because you do not have to log into PC of others, security of others are also protected.

It's mostly correct, although really, letting you boot Linux off a USB device doesn't exactly make them more secure than simply giving you a temporary, limited account.

But I really wish they'd at least have someone proofread it who understands the random little English words like "an", "the", and the difference between plural and singular, and at least one of the two correct ways to list things in a sentence... This looks like they didn't even bother to run it through a grammar checker. (Although, to be fair, I don't know of any open-source grammar checkers...)

Look, I have nothing against foreigners. I have nothing against people with funny accents, who struggle with English grammar and spelling. Just please, please don't get a job like sales, marketing, or tech support -- you know, a job that is pretty much ENTIRELY about communication skills?

Been there, done that

[cbhacking]

... if by CD you mean DVD. That's what I just did on my Vista/openSuse 10.2 box (a HP dv9000 laptop with lots of stuff like TV tuner, built-in webcam, etc.)
Results:

• Both worked well enough out-of-the-box, with all standard stuff including WiFi (Intel Extreme)
• 3D acceleration was not good enough in Linux for most gaming (nv driver, GeForce Go 7600) until the proprietary driver was installed. On Vista, Aero and gaming worked out-of-the-box, but I got better performance out of the card by installing a driver off nVidia's site (at the cost of driver stability; thank goodness the driver crashing doesn't take down the kernel in Vista).
• WebCam recognized in Linux but tests suggest that it doesn't work. Worked OOTB on Vista.
• TV Tuner card required finding the drivers online in Vista. Not supported in MythTV, can't find any Linux driver online.
• Same for OneTouch keys. LinEAK doesn't recognize most of them at all, though the mute button now changes color when muted (pushing it does nothing though).
• Bluetooth mouse worked in both
• Microphone still doesn't work in Linux. This one rather baffles me, because the sound card is recognized.
• CardReader (SD, etc.) required searching Microsoft Update for drivers (all automatic though). Haven't tried in Linux yet.

No other particular issues are coming to mind. Linux's autodetection was great, better than I've ever had before, but it is by no means better than Vista's. This is especially true if you include the automatically downloaded drivers off MS Update. Additionally, manually installing drivers on Windows is usually easier than on Linux, in cases when such is needed.

Re:Been there, done that

[Wolfrider]

> Microphone still doesn't work in Linux. This one rather baffles me, because the sound card is recognized.

--Check your ' alsamixer ' settings; mic might be Muted by default.

Re:Been there, done that

[cbhacking]

Nope. alsamixer (and KDE's sound mixer, which I think is just a GUI for the same) don't even report that the mic exists. At all. As far as they're concerned I don't even have one. The only thing I can think of is that it may somehow be connected to the (non-functioning) webcam, becasue audio output works fine.

I went online and found a couple people mentioning similar problems, and downloaded & installed the packages they were talking about. It helped some things but the mic is still missing.

Oh, and is there a good way to get Linux to recognize me pluggin in the headphones and mute the main speakers (and do the reverse)? I seem to remember this on a previous Linux system of mine but it doesn't work now.

Re:Been there, done that

[Wolfrider]

> is there a good way to get Linux to recognize me pluggin in the headphones and mute the main speakers (and do the reverse)?

--Only decent way I've found to do that is have headphones plugged into the front, and speakers (with its own separate power switch) in the back.

--If the software doesn't work for your card, I'd file a bug report. Altho you can also buy a cheap Linux-supported sound card and throw it in a PCI slot if you have one free.

Re:Been there, done that

[cbhacking]

Sadly, I'm a laptop user (the dv9000 series is HPs current line of 17" 'entertainment' laptops) so neither option seems to work. I may well file a bug report, after going hunting for info again. It's not as if I actually use the built-in mic much, Skype aside. Evenrything else, including hibernate and WiFi (the bane of my previous Linux systems) runs fine.

Re:Been there, done that

[Wolfrider]

If it's a mainline-kernel issue, that's prolly your best bet. However, you might want to investigate whether a certain _distro_ supports your system better than other flavors - sometimes you can just reinstall another Linux and everything works $better.

Re:Been there, done that

[cbhacking]

According to what I read, it's an ALSA issue, and the last time I checked there simply wasn't a new enough version of ALSA. People with older HP laptops got the mics working by patching ALSA or installing newer packages (once the pathes were added to the mainstream version). Unfortunately, they don't seem to have worked for me... it now sees the mic (I can adjust levels for it), but doesn't hear anything from it. Skype still reports no audio input as well. I doubt even a complete upgrade of the kernel would help, and Suse's kernel version tends to lag a bit behind anyhow due to modifications that would be lost if I went to the vanilla kernel. I suppose it's possible some other distro has written a driver for it, but I'd rather wait for that to be merged into the mainstream version of ALSA (or even patch and recompile) than switch to another distro at this point.

Can already boot Linux USB with Knoppix

[Krellan]

You can already boot Linux up over USB just fine, using Knoppix.

Here's a guide I wrote:

http://www.knoppix.net/wiki/Bootable_USB_Key

Do this with a USB key and it will have Linux on it, ready to be booted up. Works on any PC, needing no installation, and leaving no traces behind (unlike SanDisk's lousy "U3" software). Because it's Knoppix, it's all self-contained, and can autodetect enough hardware to be useful.

Because Knoppix was intended to be ran from CD, it doesn't write anything back to the USB key. This is a nice fringe benefit, as it will make your USB key last longer (no write cycles).

The only unfortunate thing is that few BIOS's can cleanly boot from USB keys. It's a shame that motherboard makers don't really consider this important, and so don't test for it.

sounds cool...

[webmonkey44]

sounds cool, but I haven't got enough money???!!!