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We are in NYC and have co-op apartment in a 5 building complex with 400+ units. The co-op arangement means that the units are owned collectively by people who live here, so the decision was made by people live here and who have very much the interests of those who live here in mind. Our course, many of the people who live here are not taking full advantage of the bandwidth (there are many little old ladies who emigrated from Eastern Europe post WWII here.) In a sense, their maintenance is subsidizing the rest, but even those who do not use it or do not use it much are very pleased with what it has done for the resale value of the apartments. ("Free high-speed internet included with unit.")

Before we did this, we tried to figure out how much it would cost per unit, but that was hard to get a true cost since much of it was one-time costs like wiring and the firewalls and hardware, and since much of the setup and planning was done for free by people who live here. Even the most pessimistic estimates, though, put it at around than $10/mo /unit long-term, way less than the $50/mo cost of cable modem "service", which had been the only previous option. Since around one in five units already were paying for cable modem service, with more people signing up each month (that was two years ago), it was cost-effecive and a significant improvement in many respects.

It's gonna get worse...I don't know where you live, but Adelphia is going to have to divest itself of 50% of its cable franchises to pay for the Rigas family's high-finance shenanigans. Can you say Enrondelphia? I knew you could.

If you live in the Greater Los Angeles, CA area and you have Adelphia as your cable company, kiss 'em goodbye.

However, this may actually be A Good Thing (tm).

And here's another commercial product -- this one hardware -- that bonds two broadband connections:

ISB Pro800turbo
Internet Sharing Box for DSL, Cable, ISDN & Analog Connections
2 Modem Ports that Load Balance 2 Broadband Connections

Do a google searching on bonding broadband and you'll turn up lots more.

In keeping with the original poster's subject, dlsreports.com has a forum on business connectivity, and in that forum I found a thread on bonding two bb connections -- I'm sure there's much more there.

Or all the AP to all ports under 1024 then you are wrong. I get SO much spam for Korea and Korean schools, I've recieved multiple spams from that_exact_school_ multiple times, I have tried to contact them and many others have tried to contact them, the spam keeps comming, BLOCK THEM !

The Linksys WAP is horrible. I had mine lock up at least once a day and needed a hard reset. I upgraded the firmware to the latest on the website (1.39.2?) and the lockups went away. But the wireless functionality stopped working. Check out DSL Reports and go into the network hardware forum for Linksys. You'll see a huge number of complaints. In fact, they had a higher rev of the firmware (1.40.x) on the site, but had to pull it because it was even buggier.

So I bought the SMC router/wap, and guess what - it's just as buggy. It locks up every 2 or 3 days.

-tim

The Linksys WAP is horrible. I had mine lock up at least once a day and needed a hard reset. I upgraded the firmware to the latest on the website (1.39.2?) and the lockups went away. But the wireless functionality stopped working. Check out DSL Reports and go into the network hardware forum for Linksys. You'll see a huge number of complaints. In fact, they had a higher rev of the firmware (1.40.x) on the site, but had to pull it because it was even buggier.

So I bought the SMC router/wap, and guess what - it's just as buggy. It locks up every 2 or 3 days.

-tim

It's still Windows only, but it's possible to run it under Wine.

Check out DSLReports.com for a lot of ISPs and reviews thereof in multiple countries (US, Canada, UK, and one other afaik).

Also, I use Shaw, as does another slashdot user. I get what s/he gets.

Also, a friend of mine in Washington state gets wireless internet for free. Not legally, but...

--Dan

"One of the great things about DSL is that you have your own connection to the ISP, as opposed to cable modems, which share bandwidth within each neighborhood."

Uh-huh, and does this make your DSL line any faster than a comparable cable modem? Take a look at the results of the DSLReports speed tests -- nearly all of the top speeds belong to cable modem networks.

I had DSL from Speakeasy -- 1.5MBps down/384K up. Great service, but it was $100/month. My $35/month cable modem has the same download speed. I get 1.5MBps down, period. It's not dependent on how far I am from the cable company, either.

You have a point, but the fact that your bandwidth isn't shared doesn't make a difference in your overall speed. This is just something the DSL companies came up with to try to differentiate their more expensive service from the cable modem crowd.

Within the next 6 months Megapath is supposed to become a Verizon reseller. This is what they told me when I called them a couple of weeks ago, to try to get DSL from them.

They have even gone as far as to list Verizon as a CLEC they sell on dslreports.com: http://www.dslreports.com/reviews/495

Megapath would probably be a little more expensive AceDSL, but you wouldn't have a problem doing what you wanted to do, and they are very good.

The relevant change was the shift from the CAP protocol to DMT. In most cases this means the difference between Cisco 675 and 678, although there are some 675s that support DMT. As I understand it, this is a hardware issue, and has nothing to do with CBOS (Cisco Broadband OS), so when Qwest customers either move their service or start new service, they are forced to upgrade to the 678.

My experience is that we tend to have more problems with either over zealous moderators (Slashdot? NO NEVER! Well, on occaision), like recent incidents at DSLR and AnandTech, which have resulted in a few friends getting together an unmodded place at CosmicShell.

It's been working out quite nicely. We've had no real problems, though, activity has gone down with our favourite coder doing extra-solar planet observations for the next week.

The site's not responding for me (Slashdotted? big site for that), so I'm going by the summary, which *completely* misses the mark with broadband's failures. Broadband in the U.S. is failing for two reasons: the infrastructure is owned by companies who are neither competent to nor motivated to provide broadband, and population densities are such that updating antiquated infrastructure is expensive.

Consider the telcos, who are responsible for providing DSL. They want DSL dead, because it cuts into their massive-profit sales of T1s. They're also big, lumbering bureaucracies, which deal badly with change. I won't recount my own DSL horror stories, but there are plenty to be had at DSL Reports. Technically DSL is functional and capable, but the businesses behind it, and the support bureaucracies, are not.

Cable has different problems. First, there's the cable companies; in my area, and in others, cable Internet is simply not an option because the local providers don't offer it. There's also the problem of bandwidth sharing. It's true that DSL bandwidth is also shared, but it's shared at a central point, which is easily upgraded; with cable, mis-estimation of demand or usage can leave people drastically short on bandwidth. (DSLReports again for horror stories).

Finally, consider the population layout in the US, as compared to elsewhere. If you have population-dense cities, surrounded by low-density farmland, you can provide access to most of the population simply by providing short-range access in the cities. In the US, most of the demand is in the suburbs, which involve much longer distances and are, therefore, much harder to provide for. (This is especially true in my home state of Massachusetts, where economics are such that the demand and the money is all in the suburbs).

Location: Interior BC, Canada

Provider: Shaw High Speed
(Previously Shaw@Home)

Pre-Nov31:
- peak dl: 15kbps (yes, kilobits!)
- peak up: 53kbps
- latency: greater than 1000ms

Post-Nov31:
- peak dl: 5500kbps
- peak up: 550kbps
- latency: less than 40ms
- speedtest at this moment

Apparantly they just upgraded the backbone into my city. It used to be 2 T1's for the whole city. We're not a big place, but that was just stupid. Anyway, all is good now, and Shaw actually started they're upgrades a long way back so they were ahead of the game.

Typically, on the coast (around Vancouver) I get somewhere around 2-3000kbps downloads, but it's been a while since I've really been to put it thru it's paces out there.

As a @home customer (comcast if you must know) that was REALLY watching out for new developments during the showdown, I used the DSLREPORTS forums for new developments. They even tossed ATT out of the @home forums and created their own cable forum for att users seperate from @home (so they can bish in piece it seems).

Linked here

From the look of it, the ATT users are none to pleased about the goings on... even talking about something worse than SPEED caps -- a download limit.

The forum goers seem ALL OVER THIS... for real information its a good bet to get it directly from them, so to speak.

What are the Upstream and Downstream Rates for AT&T Broadband Internet?

The new AT&T Broadband Internet network as been built to optimize our customers' high-speed Internet experience. This means that customers speed settings will be set at 1.5 MB downstream and 128kb upstream to ensure that all customers receive an optimized broadband experience. These speed settings are part of our continuous effort to provide customers with the fastest, most consistent broadband service at the lowest possible price.

Our lightning-fast connection enhances Internet experiences through fast e-mail communication, quick access to research and surfing, a fantastic gaming experience, quick video clip and music downloads and a whole lot more.

The AT&T Broadband Internet network also has been built for future advanced service offerings. We're examining tiered speeds as a future service enhancement in addition to other offerings.

For lots of useful information and experiences from ATTBI users, see the ATTBI forum on DSLReports.

is a good place to start research..Despite the name, they cover cable service in addition to dsl.

The 30 second pauses you saw could be your PC looking for a DHCP server and not finding one. See http://www.dslreports.com/faq/faq#156 for a fix.

So, how can a company like Covad, basically a reseller, expect to survive against the telco selling DSL themselves?
One word—volume.

All kidding (well, most kidding) aside, I recently saw an article referenced on DSLReports that makes an excellent point—in general, DSL customer service sucks. Installation can be time-consuming without a guarantee of eventual success, service is occasionally spotty, and online help can be hit-or-miss. Work-at-home folk who depend on their broadband for their livelihood, as well as those of us who are just willing to pay a bit extra for good service, would likely do business with a reseller who would wrap a telco's DSL line in better support for a slightly higher monthly fee.

On the other end of the spectrum, a reseller could purchase DSL service wholesale and provide stripped-down service (no email, Usenet, or toll-free support) for less than the full-service products offered by the telco. Many of us geeks would go ga-ga for such a service, especially if all extra services (such as static IP's) were offered a la carte.

Proud owner of a self-restored 1968 Ford Fairlane, 302 V8, 9" 4.11 geared...
Self-restored? Wasn't this the setup for a Stephen King novel?

The _only_ place to look for DSL is at DSL Reports

Please read this thread on DSL Reports. It includes important information, schedule, etc. :)

Linksys have a beta firmware available, and the support is reasonably good if you can actually find the appropriate forum. The only reason that I have my WAP11 working well is due to the advice offered in here

there has also been some discussion regarding the point in using 128-bit WEP. Replace WEP with IPSec. I like the linksys because it does everything it needs to and does not include useless features such as modem ports and firewalls that are better done by using a seperate computer acting as a gateway.

Looking at the dslreports ads, a T1 costs about $500/month. A T1 has about 200kB/s bandwidth, and $10,000 should get around 20 T1s, so they should be using around 4MB/s. Why do they need that much bandwidth for one-time 5MB downloads? Why don't they just ask people to mirror the files?

The RIAA's approach to Gnutella thus far has been actively discovering copyright offenders and sending DMCA complaints to their ISP

I was a bit worried about this so I did some research. The only case of someone actually losing access was covered in an article on Salon. News.com reported about pressure on ISPs, but mentioned only one subscriber being cut off.

I checked the dslreports message boards expecting to find howls of protests by those cut off from their monopoly broadband providers. Silence....

I think the RIAA and MPAA are doing a great job at scaring people away from file sharing without actually paying many bounty hunters because the idea of a secret copyright police force is so juicy.

Similarly, there seems to be hysteria about people being denied boarding on aircraft for being dissidents. The Bangor, Maine Green Party member turns out to have been pretty uncooperative. Yes, the guard was an overbearing oaf, but she admits to provoking him in an interview . The Green's press release doesn't mention any of this.

The guy detained in Germany for having "unconventional" views and the guy denied flying for having a copy of Hayduke Lives look like the result of hysterical untrained guards, not a plot to deny everyone's civil rights. More hysteria won't help.

The guy who was harassed for taking pictures of National Guardsmen at a security checkpoint probably should have asked first (it's supposedly not illegal, but photography at customs is so he should have thought a bit), but he was another victim of a freakazoid with a chip on his shoulder.

I don't think we should have to turn into loyal plastic robots, but I'm not going to wear my Circumvention Device t-shirt through airport security. No need to get the wheels of teeny minds spinning.

There's certainly an epidemic of ineptitude (that's not new since Sept. 11), but I don't believe there's an epidemic of harrassment. Likewise of ISPs and their customers.

http://www.isp-wireless.com

http://www.dslreports.com/forum/dslalt

Plenty of demand. ;-)

i concur with this information. (note: i used to work for verizon dsl)

meanmachine is right, the bit error rate isn't critical for you. the latency is.

the solution, for you, luckily, is nearby. the cisco line of dsl routers has changable interleaving settings! all the info i can find now is at dslreports.

if this doesn't work, then the solution is to get your provider to turn off interleaving. this will be difficult. repeat: this will be difficult. you'll probably have to beg, beg some more, beg to 20 different people, and then they still won't do it. ask to talk to a dsl tech, supervisor, whatvever. but if your cisco can't do it, then getting them to change it at the far end is the only way.

good luck.

i'll try to post more if i can find it.

complex

totally agree. People have freakin egos. I ran linux router for two years with DSL from April 1997. big freakin deal I must be so cool. Then I got that 4 port linksys router and worked great for a year and a half. Big huge problem with it. If you wanna do an P2P file sharing it will lock up within 3 or 5 minutes. I got a Netgear RT314 for $99 and have uptime since the day I got it a few months back. linksys only has a 33Mhz ARM CPU which can't handle simutaneous up/down ip traffic. Say this on dslreports.com linksys forum and prepare to be banned forever. Doesn't change the fact. thread hey I got a voted -6 here ...that's gotta be a record...maybe I'll get a -2 or -3 here on slashdot here too....the truth really does hurt sometimes. --mrbass

totally agree. People have freakin egos. I ran linux router for two years with DSL from April 1997. big freakin deal I must be so cool. Then I got that 4 port linksys router and worked great for a year and a half. Big huge problem with it. If you wanna do an P2P file sharing it will lock up within 3 or 5 minutes. I got a Netgear RT314 for $99 and have uptime since the day I got it a few months back. linksys only has a 33Mhz ARM CPU which can't handle simutaneous up/down ip traffic. Say this on dslreports.com linksys forum and prepare to be banned forever. Doesn't change the fact. thread hey I got a voted -6 here ...that's gotta be a record...maybe I'll get a -2 or -3 here on slashdot here too....the truth really does hurt sometimes. --mrbass

I have a netgear router myself, and have locked it down pretty well with the advice I found.

to PowerLink before its @Home contract runs out. You can read more about it on DSL's Adelphia forum.

HTH! :-)

Louisville, CO is a reasonably large town just outside of Boulder, CO in (what at least was) one of the hottest places in the country for SW engineers.

Until about a month ago, I could not get DSL, and even today am lucky I have service and only do due to a combination of luck and unaware service techs (when Qwest changed to DMT DSL that got me past one tech hurdle, but I've still got bridge taps on my line and am 18,500' from the CO, so technically I should have failed prequalification, but it works, and that's all I care about...)

The local cable company, AT&T Broadband, does not offer cable modem service and when asked said they have no plans to ever offer it as it would require a rather large head-end and infrastructure upgrade that, frankly, they are not interested in doing. For reference, I dropped my cable TV service over a year ago due to their inability to even deliver a clear television picture, let alone internet service.

The only other solution, since the first of the year or so, has been Sprint's wireless Broadband service, which, if you read the reviews at DSL Reports, often falls to a speed less than that of a 56K modem if the service is oversubscribed.

Add the recent death of Rhythms and the apparent coming death of both Covad and Excite@Home, and the opportunities for broadband access are actually decreasing...

Here ya go, try this. Speed Test

I tried to get DSL, from the local baby bell even, for months. They never came out and told me "you are just too far from the CO". It was always, "we need to send a technician out, to see if there are any problems with your line. You'll need to be at home, in case you need to unplug phones." Finally, I had to go to DSL Reports to get the real scoop - I was borderline, and probably wouldn't like it if I got it.

So, I decided to try cable. The NEXT DAY they were at my house installing it, ignoring their own contract to install it in an inside wall, going through the attic. This was a snow day too, that many decided was too bad to go into work. I've had two outages since then, and I'm a very happy customer. That's Cox Cable of Tulsa, BTW.

I can see what they are doing, though. The Bell is dragging it's feet, while Cox is agressivly upgrading it's equipment, partially with Cable Modem subscriber's money. Soon, they will be the only game in town, and then, if they can do it, they'll offer phone over cable for a similar rate. If it was cheaper, I may have to go that way, or take the plunge, drop my land line altogether, and get a cell phone.

And that's why I'm a suppporter of deregulation - not because I think the slow-as-molassas Bell will suddenly pull themselves into the 21st Century, but because the evil merging cable companies should get a shot at the telephone market in a few years. Now THAT would be some true competition.

Only if you could 100% certify that nobody from the old Telocity still works there. They were an under-priced, under-staffed, under-skilled provider who was hoping to catch a large % of the market by only working w/ people who didn't have any trouble w/ their DSL and dumping anyone who did. See DSL Reports.

pppoe is SLOW. my 384/150 connection could not stream up an mp3 at 112kb/s

You can't blame that on PPPoE- it only adds like 8 bytes per packet in overhead. According to www.dslreports.com, you are lucky to get 80% of the maximum speed with all of the factors involved (just the IP and TCP packet headers take 13%)
http://www.dslreports.com/faq/faq/4.+Using+DSL#473

Even ISP Reports (A DSL rating site) did not have a easy way to find all the ISP's connected to Qwest easily. So still have to visit them and do some more research *sigh*

Time Warner's Roadrunner claims only to be using a small fraction of their network capabilities at each neighborhood's center, leaving the rest dark to be turned on for when more bandwidth capacity is necessary in each neighborhood. Now, that could just be PR but there's probably at least some truth behind it.

Here in Kansas City, if you've tweaked your modem right, you can easily get about 1950 kbps down/360 kbps up (advertised 2000 down 384 up), whereas basic DSL from SWBell for the same price is UP TO 1400 kbps down/384 up, but minimum 384 down/128 up, a noticeable difference. I have noticed little to no slowdown in my area. A friend of mine who lives in a neighborhood that has had roadrunner longer and also is wealthier (most likely with a higher percentage of broadband users) says he's noticed some slowdown at peak hours (primetime normally), but he still connects at well over 1000 kbps even then, whereas many people with DSL are getting nowhere near that.

I used to be a major proponent for DSL before I had cable and learned some of the facts. Now in the end, as about 50 of these posts already mentioned, good DSL is better than bad cable and vice versa, but I just don't see DSL as capable of taking the lead from cable, just for these issues. Cable installation are simpler and take less time. Also, DSL companies are known for their lack of support and for having major problems with installations and the like. Just go to dslreports and look at top rated providers. Cable almost always beats DSL because DSL is just way more complex, period.

Before making a decision on any broadband provider, do yourself a favor and visit http://www.dslreports.com . And, after signing up with a provider, return the favor and report your experience there as well.

Oh...and should you happen to choose SpeakEasy (one of the highest rated ones), do me a favor and tell them pjwal referred you so I can get a free month ;-).

I certainly can't complain. I consistantly measure at 2-3Mbps on my download stream. I've never seen it go below 1Mpbs that was due to anything but the remote site being slow/jammed.

Of course, with a 56k modem, you don't have to worry too much about local (or remote) traffic conditions. You're too slow to stress anyone.

Try that DSLREPORT site. Very handy.

I can't tell you how good their service is yet. I only ordered the DSL (768 SDSL approx. $150/mo) on 6/29, but the "loop" line was installed by Ameritech on 7/6, and Covad is scheduled to do the inhouse wiring on 7/11.

Beats my past experience with the now defunct Northpoint (Netsight ISP) by 3 months!

Plus Speakeasy has a great web interface for keeping me uptodate with the state of my order. (And provides 30hr/month dial-up service for free.)

They have a lot of choices for DSL configuration, and allow up to 10 IP addresses for Residential service.

I'm confident that my good experience will continue. Check out DSL Reports for more end-user experiences with this and other ISPs/providers.

---- Sigs are bad for your health ----

I think this is a very important question, thanks to Slashdot for finally posting it. Users should demand multicast connectivity. A multicast enabled internet would dramatically lower the cost of delivering multimedia content, thus making a wider variety of content available. Currently, delivering multimedia to large numbers of users is quite expensive, preventing many from having access to large audiences.

MSN used to offer multicast connectivity, I'm not sure when they stopped. Anyone know the story on this?

A few things consumers can do:

-if you are shopping for an ISP of any kind ask about multicast and try to get the question to get as high up the chain as possible.

-Sprint offers free multicast connectivity to its ISP customers, if yours peers with them let them know this. (does Sprint offer multicast connectivity to its consumer grade customers?)

-check to see if you've got multicast connectivity through this applet from multicasttech. If you are let other people know about your ISP, on forums like dslreports

> Besides Ricochet, the only other option is satellite,

... well, no, there's also Sprint Broadband, which is a fixed wireless antenna with 1.5 Mbps throughput for almost half the price ($40/month) of Ricochet. I've been quite happy with it -- feel free to read other reviews on DSLReports.

I am not alone with this problem. Everyone who lives in Hacienda Heights and Rowland Heights, CA are having similar problems:

1) Very slow speed, especially during peak hours (i.e. analog modem speed during peak hours). I was told that there are only six T1 lines in this city.

2) Too many cable modem outages.

3) Horrible technical support (nothing unusual for any companies).

4) None of can get DSL because we're too far. IDSL, satellite Internet, etc. are too expensive and slow (i.e. gaming).

5) The problems are getting worse.

6) Adelphia@Home is still adding new subscribers. My cable friends and I recently got flyers and postcards.

I was told Adelphia is going to discontinue @Home and switch subscribers to its PowerLink ISP service. I doubt that will help a lot.

Some interesting links with my city's cable modem problems:

My city complaints... Hacienda Heights, CA 91745

Speed Test Results (type in 91745 for zip code).

Adelphia Forum: A few posts related to my city and Rowland Heights.

Some results from my traceroutes, pings, etc.

I am not alone with this problem. Everyone who lives in Hacienda Heights and Rowland Heights, CA are having similar problems:

1) Very slow speed, especially during peak hours (i.e. analog modem speed during peak hours). I was told that there are only six T1 lines in this city.

2) Too many cable modem outages.

3) Horrible technical support (nothing unusual for any companies).

4) None of can get DSL because we're too far. IDSL, satellite Internet, etc. are too expensive and slow (i.e. gaming).

5) The problems are getting worse.

6) Adelphia@Home is still adding new subscribers. My cable friends and I recently got flyers and postcards.

I was told Adelphia is going to discontinue @Home and switch subscribers to its PowerLink ISP service. I doubt that will help a lot.

Some interesting links with my city's cable modem problems:

My city complaints... Hacienda Heights, CA 91745

Speed Test Results (type in 91745 for zip code).

Adelphia Forum: A few posts related to my city and Rowland Heights.

Some results from my traceroutes, pings, etc.

I am not alone with this problem. Everyone who lives in Hacienda Heights and Rowland Heights, CA are having similar problems:

1) Very slow speed, especially during peak hours (i.e. analog modem speed during peak hours). I was told that there are only six T1 lines in this city.

2) Too many cable modem outages.

3) Horrible technical support (nothing unusual for any companies).

4) None of can get DSL because we're too far. IDSL, satellite Internet, etc. are too expensive and slow (i.e. gaming).

5) The problems are getting worse.

6) Adelphia@Home is still adding new subscribers. My cable friends and I recently got flyers and postcards.

I was told Adelphia is going to discontinue @Home and switch subscribers to its PowerLink ISP service. I doubt that will help a lot.

Some interesting links with my city's cable modem problems:

My city complaints... Hacienda Heights, CA 91745

Speed Test Results (type in 91745 for zip code).

Adelphia Forum: A few posts related to my city and Rowland Heights.

Some results from my traceroutes, pings, etc.

It adds a fairly sophisticated set of tweakable parameters for the radio as well.

It adds a fairly sophisticated set of tweakable parameters for the radio as well.

And more importantly near the telco CO for DSL, and/or in a neighborhood with cablemodem. :)

My suggestions:

http://realestate.yahoo.com/

dslreports.com

A contractor I know (who does installs for Covad) mentioned Speakeasy, so I went to dslreports.com and checked them out. Looked good (in NYC, anyway), so I ordered their /usr/radsl/pro or somesuch (1.5 down, 384 up) and 10 days later I was getting just that. The Covad employee I spoke to during the process had to check to see who (locally) would provide my line...Verizon! Not good. (Though his actual quote was, "OK, we're about done on our end; let's see who gets the ball next...oh crap! You've got Verizon! Ok, that stays between you, me and the barn door.") (I assumed that to mean he didn't want me repearing that but hey, I'm a New Yorker - what do i know about barn doors? ;)

No tech had to come by, my self-install kit arrived a few days late but all in all, I had the connection I wanted in less than 2 weeks.

Speakeasy certainly gets my recommendation (though it's unfortunate that most of my friends had DSL by the time I tried Speakeasy ;)