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This one is probably trivial to fix:

I go to this web site, and try to save the page:

      http://blogs.edmunds.com/karl/239

IE saves it using this filename:

  Karl on Cars - GM's EV1 -- Who Killed Common Sense.htm

Firefox saves it as:

  239.htm

>It takes all of about 2 seconds for a repo-man's towing device to grab a vehicle.
then why brake the locks? I guess to push it from his shop to the dumping ground? considering the guy was seriously in debt, it is a bit suspicious, but he would need the car destroyed not fixable.

Of course, this doesn't help us in New York, Mass, Connecticut, California, and other states who have chosen prohibition of new diesel sales until fuel regs catch up. For newer, 2007+ models, the government WILL be telling you which diesel of the two you can use, punishable by heavy fines, of course. Good luck finding the right nozzle!

i am neither a lawyer nor a Chinese resident, so I am not sure, but I don't think that it is illegal. If someone in China wants to connect to a server in the USA, and that server happened to be told to ignore reset packets from China, then that can't be illegal. If a Chinese citizen's computer just happened to be configured to ignore reset packets, then I doubt that it will be illegal. Having said that, actually looking at forbidden content is probably illegal.

The problem hinges on the fact that the is no (enforceable) law preventing the Chinese government from doing what it likes to who it likes that does anything they don't like. Remember, they require no warrants, no subpoenae, and no trial. They only have to notice that you have accessed something they don't like enough to pay attention to you, and you're toast (see above mentioned death vans).

Perhaps, as another poster mentioned above, the Chinese will restrain themselves up unto the 2008 Olympics, but I doubt it. Again, see the above death wagons, which "look like any other police van." Also, whoever said they haven't got the resources is deluding themselves. If the RIAA has the resources to track people downloading illegally (though the lack the resources to document and prosecute anywhere near the majority), there are 1.3 billion with a "B" people in China. Even though you don't hear about it much, they assault US networks (telecom and government) with regularity. I'm sure they have enough people to monitor home traffic closely enough to suit their purposes - remember, all it takes is a small app to parse logs for forbidden traffic in the past X days or whatever. Combined with random live monitoring and historical traffic analysis, I'm sure they can monitor more than enough to make it as unsafe to commit thought crime on the internet as it is for the average American to get away with hacking the average website hosted by a paranoid provider. I rather doubt they care about anyone posting on /. too much (especially if you are a foreign national simply visiting family there), but if they even begin to think you're a subvesrive engaged in treason or sedition, pO.of, you're done, no proof required. Stop, do not pass Go, do not collect $200. Go with the nice men in blue uniforms directly to the "police van that looks like any other" parked right outside your front door.

Okay, now that you let the cat out of the bag, how long before the Great Chinese Firewall gets this hole plugged?

Why plug it? I have a feeling that instead they'll just roll up the death vans and execute those criminals. After all, if they are defeating the firewall, they clearly are up to something sneaky and are a threat to the existing order...

My favorite part is no one in the US seems to want to actually deal with the consequences of their beleifs. Most claim they want to do something about global warming, until it means I can't fly to Tahiti this summer.

Hmm, I thought I was in America, but according to you, I must be living somewhere else. I wonder why we pay American federal income tax and get to send representatives to the American legislature.

I paid to have solar panels put on my roof. Not only do they generate clean, silent power, they are already about a third of the way done paying for themselves in reduced power bills after just a few years -- and after they've done that, they still have about a decade of expected useful lifetime, making them a profitable investment rather than an extra cost.

I am telecommuting 2-3 days a week to avoid driving in to the office. In fact, I'm typing this from my living room couch. In addition to pumping out less CO2 and saving me money on fuel, telecommuting also gives me a quiet work environment and saves me 45 minutes a day of useless time sitting in my car, leaving me more time to spend with my girlfriend and post to Slashdot. Here too, doing the environmentally friendly thing is also better in other respects. If you consider posting to Slashdot a good thing, anyway.

I've been using compact fluorescents instead of incandescent bulbs for years. More expensive up front, but they last for ages so once again, I save money (and that's just on the bulbs, not even on the power.)

Until California removed my ability to choose my electric utility, I was paying my monthly power bill to a renewables-based energy company. It was partially the loss of that choice that motivated me to invest in the solar panels.

So please take your cynical, incorrect overgeneralizations somewhere else. Or else, please explain how your model of US behavior (remember, you said "no one" here acts on their beliefs, not "many people") squares with the fact that there are several-months-long waiting lists for hybrid cars. Hint: there were waiting lists before the recent jump in fuel prices, too.

Paying the real market price for gas is the fairest way to wean everybody off of petroleum products: and people are listening. Go down to a Toyota garage sometime and see how many people are looking at hybrids, versus a year or two ago.

I was with you until here.

"Hybrid" is a technology -- a means, not an end. In case you didn't notice, every mass-produced hybrid you can buy today still runs on petroleum. And many don't even get great fuel economy. Here's a Toyota hybrid that gets 21.5 mpg. My car gets more than double that *for city driving* (and even better on the highway), and it's not a hybrid. (And I don't run it on petroleum.)

I'm all for high gas prices that force people to find alternatives, but getting SUV drivers to buy SUVs that get a couple more MPG, with a big "HYBRID" sticker, and think that's all they need to do, will not help us.

We need serious solutions to the energy problem. Even if everybody switched their gasoline car to a hybrid, population growth would wipe out the improvement in a year or two.

Doesn't that infringe on Hyundai's trademark of "Driving is believing"? Or is that just legal low-class imitation? (No offense -- the Wii looks to be awesome, but copying is still lame.)

Kinda reminds me of (in Texas), Wendy's "It's better here" and HEB's "Here everything's better" (HEB is a grocery chain).

Anyone that wants to compare cars can go to edmunds site and compair the "true cost to own" which supposedly includes such things as gas costs and depreciation and what people really pay. http://www.edmunds.com/apps/cto/CTOintroController

The Prius (only one type available) was $.46 per mile while a High end Civic was $.43 and a high end Corolla was $.38. The Insight was $.40 and there was a Scion that ended up at $.36.

My wifes SUV was only $.68 so that makes me feel a lot better. LOL

Here are some quotes from the first 4 google results for "ABS stopping distances" relating to cars:

In exchange for an increased stopping distance, the vehicle will remain stable and maintain full steering since the wheels won't be locked.

On very soft surfaces, such as loose gravel or unpacked snow, an ABS system may actually lengthen stopping distances.

During 1988-91, NHTSA performed two extensive series of stopping tests involving vehicles with four-wheel ABS, on various road surfaces. The tests confirmed that ABS was highly effective in preventing yawing and allowing the driver to steer the car during panic braking. Stopping distances decreased substantially with four-wheel ABS on wet surfaces, but decreased only slightly on dry pavement and increased considerably on gravel.

Under most conditions, a vehicle with a good anti-lock brake system can stop in a slightly shorter distance than an average driver could accomplish [but] that is not the main purpose of ABS, and the difference is generally not great enough to notice or be of any real use... ABS can actually lengthen stopping distances on some surfaces, such as loose snow, dirt, or gravel, because of effects that occur during locked-wheel skidding that are unique to those surfaces.

Well, looking here , I don't see it on the list, but I do see a list of American cars...

agreed, Jaguar is no longer impressive.

Jaguar's are one of the least reliable vehicles on the road.

A 0-60 time of low 6s is more the territory of low-end $30k luxury cars like the Infiniti G35 (second road test) than $80,000+ convertibles.

So why buy a Jag unless I'm trying to impress someone?

I also didn't like the quote:
""The clever bit is how you integrate, balance and harmonize separate systems that allow you to drive the car in a spirited way, but don't feel in any way in danger, overpowered and intimidated," said Martyn Hollingsworth, Jaguar's director of engineering. "This is real important when you are in a car approaching up to 400 horses.""

when the 2007 Jaguar XK really only has 300hp (second source)

This article says it is only 46mpg and isn't legal to be sold in five states. I guess you could buy it in another state and drive it home.

We don't need to do that - the tech exists to coat radiators with a catalytic coating that will clean the air as you drive.
http://www.engelhard.com/documents/1999-01-3677.pd f

If they took the money they spend on sucking up to oil companies (and car companies http://www.evadc.org/news.html ) and handing over pollution credits to them http://www.edmunds.com/news/column/carmudgeon/4682 9/article.html http://www.houstonmopars.org/noscrap.html and trying to kill the hobby of automotive work... ...then we could easily have a state full of NEVs (Negative Emission Vehicles) - the state could retrofit existing vehicles with the new radiators.

But the politicos would never do that, just like Arnie et al pussed out on the big solar bill that he could have signed when he first took office http://www.renewableenergyaccess.com/rea/news/stor y?id=36390 - it would have put California far ahead in terms of distributed solar PV usage. No politicians have the guts to do something on the order of the "National Defense Highway System" http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/facility/nd hs.htm , Rural Electrification System, Golden Gate Bridge, Hetch Hetchy, etc.

I think the car was the "HCD-3". It blew me away, as well as a few of my friends. The proposed hp/weight ratio was pretty good, and the styling was pretty neat.

Then, it got run by several departments that tried to fit it into existing molds, using existing Hynudai platforms (Accent was used, I think) and other concerns.

I believe the final product that was based on it that sold in the US was the "Hyundai Tiburon". The first revision of the Tiburon was pretty disappointing for what it "could have been", but recent revisions have included better styling and a bigger engine. Not shabby on its own, but still a disappointment compared to the prototype.

Check out this link for a little history and the current car review.

In some cases the electric motor can motivate the car on it's own, but that only applies to the Prius and Ford hybrids, the Civic still needs the engine to get it going. It's only under a limited set of circumstances that the engine can fully take over anyway.

In some cases the electric motor can motivate the car on it's own, but that only applies to the Prius and Ford hybrids, the Civic still needs the engine to get it going. It's only under a limited set of circumstances that the engine can fully take over anyway.

At the 2004 North American International Auto Show, I saw Mazda showing off a dual-fuel RX-8 that had Hydrogen and Gasoline tanks and just the single engine to use for either.
It debuted at the 2003 Tokyo auto show.

Sorry, typo on my part - replace the 'c' with a 'k'.

http://www.edmunds.com/media/news/column/lettersto theediors/02.jul/02.pontiac.aztek.f34.500.jpg

Ugliness to the extreme.

Which makes me wonder why Xbox fanboys criticize the look of the Sony PS3. If they were so concerned about looks, they would never have bought an Xbox in the first place.

Toyota Sequoia 2.6 tons curb
Ford Expedition 2.8 tons curb
Nissan Armada 2.7 tons curb
Chevy Suburban 2.8 tons curb
Hummer 2 3.2 tons
Porche Cayenne 2.3 tons

There seems to be quite a few of the large SUVs that are nearly 3 tons. Close enough to be generalized.

And YES you should count GVWR because people (especially heavyweight Americans) and their dogs matter, like the airlines say. This makes most of the SUVs weight as much as heavy-lifting trucks and illegal on some residential streets.

Toyota Sequoia 2.6 tons curb
Ford Expedition 2.8 tons curb
Nissan Armada 2.7 tons curb
Chevy Suburban 2.8 tons curb
Hummer 2 3.2 tons
Porche Cayenne 2.3 tons

There seems to be quite a few of the large SUVs that are nearly 3 tons. Close enough to be generalized.

And YES you should count GVWR because people (especially heavyweight Americans) and their dogs matter, like the airlines say. This makes most of the SUVs weight as much as heavy-lifting trucks and illegal on some residential streets.

Toyota Sequoia 2.6 tons curb
Ford Expedition 2.8 tons curb
Nissan Armada 2.7 tons curb
Chevy Suburban 2.8 tons curb
Hummer 2 3.2 tons
Porche Cayenne 2.3 tons

There seems to be quite a few of the large SUVs that are nearly 3 tons. Close enough to be generalized.

And YES you should count GVWR because people (especially heavyweight Americans) and their dogs matter, like the airlines say. This makes most of the SUVs weight as much as heavy-lifting trucks and illegal on some residential streets.

Toyota Sequoia 2.6 tons curb
Ford Expedition 2.8 tons curb
Nissan Armada 2.7 tons curb
Chevy Suburban 2.8 tons curb
Hummer 2 3.2 tons
Porche Cayenne 2.3 tons

There seems to be quite a few of the large SUVs that are nearly 3 tons. Close enough to be generalized.

And YES you should count GVWR because people (especially heavyweight Americans) and their dogs matter, like the airlines say. This makes most of the SUVs weight as much as heavy-lifting trucks and illegal on some residential streets.

Toyota Sequoia 2.6 tons curb
Ford Expedition 2.8 tons curb
Nissan Armada 2.7 tons curb
Chevy Suburban 2.8 tons curb
Hummer 2 3.2 tons
Porche Cayenne 2.3 tons

There seems to be quite a few of the large SUVs that are nearly 3 tons. Close enough to be generalized.

And YES you should count GVWR because people (especially heavyweight Americans) and their dogs matter, like the airlines say. This makes most of the SUVs weight as much as heavy-lifting trucks and illegal on some residential streets.

Toyota Sequoia 2.6 tons curb
Ford Expedition 2.8 tons curb
Nissan Armada 2.7 tons curb
Chevy Suburban 2.8 tons curb
Hummer 2 3.2 tons
Porche Cayenne 2.3 tons

There seems to be quite a few of the large SUVs that are nearly 3 tons. Close enough to be generalized.

And YES you should count GVWR because people (especially heavyweight Americans) and their dogs matter, like the airlines say. This makes most of the SUVs weight as much as heavy-lifting trucks and illegal on some residential streets.

Because Hybrids are not fun to drive.

Compared to what? My Prius is at least as fun to drive as any other similarly priced car I've used over the past ten years. Actually, it's more fun to drive than most. Nearly everyone who's hopped in my car notes that it has good acceleration. So I don't think you know what you're talking about. If you're comparing it to muscle cars, well sure, but compared to sedans in the 20K-30K range it is reasonable.

Another take on "fun-to-drive" that may not appeal to you: aside from good handling and accelleration and such, which is what I figure we were just discussing, I've had more fun driving my Prius than any other car I've owned because it's fun for me to see how I can influence the milage. It's actually a bit of a game.

What kind of car can you get new for $12K?

Something like a Toyota Echo. Yeah, I looked that up before posting $12K. There are plenty of similarly priced cars from various manufacturers. You may feel the Toyota Echo is not a reasonable car, but I'm a six foot male, I can fit in an Echo (a six foot male friend has one), it drives quite adequately, and it is very dependable. Ignoring large family or utility issues for the sake of this discussion, nobody needs more than that.

Of course you might want more than that. Most people do. I certainly do: which is why I bought a Prius: I like it. It makes me feel good. Not too many people buy a car based on a hard cost-benefit analysis or an ROI. People buy cars they like. If you've spent $50K on an H1, or $250K on a Ferrari, that's fine: enjoy. That's why we buy cars. You don't need to justify it. Beyond the the $12K mark it's a toy. I just want people to recoginze that I bought my Prius for the same reason.

Cheers.

It'd probably be better if our armed forces stopped inovating, and just waited for the rest of the world to advance beyond our own capabiilty to respond, eh? Because, if we stop concerning ourselves with war, the whole world will instantly fall into a state of peace and be covered with pretty flowers.

Obviously, any students who learn more about effectively automate vehicles will *never* find a way to apply that technology in a non-lethal environment...

http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/News/articleI d=107011
http://www.jaguarusa.com/us/en/vehicles/s-type/pri ces_and_specs/opt_equipment.htm (look at the first available option)

Yes, anything that can potentially be used to kill someone should be off-limits for research, regardless of its usefulness in other arenas. Especially if, heaven forbid, the *military* encourages development!

The Accord Hybrid is pathetic, I get better milage from my BMW 325Ci

Unless you've driven an Accord Hybrid, you can't compare your measured mileage in your BMW to the rated mileage for the Accord Hybrid. If you beat the BMW 325Ci's rated mileage of 19mpg/27mpg (city/hwy, automatic transmission), then you would probably also beat the Accord Hybrid's rated mileage of 29mpg/37mpg.

It's also worth noting that the Accord Hybrid is a much more powerful car than the BMW 325Ci. The Accord Hybrid has 255hp while the BMW 325Ci has only 184. So even if your BMW got better mileage, you would be trading off the Accord Hybrid's power. I don't care for horsepower myself--my car does 73hp and is perfectly adequate--but you have to consider that the Accord Hybrid is Honda's power play, not its mileage play.

(Source for my mpg and hp numbers.)

And a Civic is seriously overpriced compared to a Geo Metro or a go-cart. Why not compare apples-to-apples, such as a Prius to an Accord or Camry since you want to compare to a car (midsize) of similar interior space & comforts, right?

Lessee, the equivalent Accord would be the 4-door sedan w/ nav with your voice activated NAV, ABS, 5 person seating, power everything, alarm, immobilizer, EBD, cruise, button covered steering wheel, air filtration, alloy wheels, 6 CD stereo system, similar engine specs (yes, the hybrid 1.5L is about equivalent to the 160HP gas).. blah blah blah with specs of nyah compared to the Prius with specs of nyah and ... OMFG the Prius is slightly roomier ... Continuing on, the prices come out to the same $26K MSRP +/- a few hundred. OMFG! Is this what overpriced really means?

Now, let's compare to the similiar Camry and you find the Camry only very slightly roomier and a few K cheaper until you count the missing Nav and maybe some other options.

You previously named a 15K Civic, a watermelon to pineapple comparison. Well, no way it's the 4 door EX with Nav because that's $20+K. How about the bottom of the line DX sedan. The seating room is pretty close to the Prius, although it's missing 4" of rear legroom and 4 cu-ft of cargo space. Subtract NAV, premium audio, HID head lights, etc and I can see the $10K difference might be a bit much. But then I see you didn't like the cheap alacantara-like microfiber cloth upholstry used on many premium Bimmers, Subarus which are considered by many to be cheap vehicles. That's fine too, because you can get things in leather come 2006.

So now that we have this imaginary premium that somehow exists for Hybrids, but doesn't for SUVs, cars with bigger engines, and etc etc because V6+ German goodness and all that shininess of a Hummer somehow comes for free and you've already broken even without breaking the bank unlike the evil Hybrid?

For you real geeks, the Prius electronics hard-maintains charge levels between 40% to 80%. Pretty hard to kill a battery doing that.

Don't forget to add the reduced maintenance costs of hybrids because:
o some are Japanese cars
o they use their engines & brake pads a lot less
o the Prius does not have a timing belt so no replacement necessary
o lifetime no emissions tests in California
o 8 year/150K warranty on the hybrid battery (try to beat that with your regular car battery) for the Prius
o the Prius itself has been around since ~1997 with a few cabs already over 150K miles with no battery problems compared to how many million recalls for other cars?
o just oil change/tire rotation for the first 60->100K miles

Then there's the imaginary savings of having clean air so kids don't have asthma and growing up leaning on the health system a bit which is paid by OMFG my taxes. Of course it's arguable that the money would've went to Iraq anyways, b

And a Civic is seriously overpriced compared to a Geo Metro or a go-cart. Why not compare apples-to-apples, such as a Prius to an Accord or Camry since you want to compare to a car (midsize) of similar interior space & comforts, right?

Lessee, the equivalent Accord would be the 4-door sedan w/ nav with your voice activated NAV, ABS, 5 person seating, power everything, alarm, immobilizer, EBD, cruise, button covered steering wheel, air filtration, alloy wheels, 6 CD stereo system, similar engine specs (yes, the hybrid 1.5L is about equivalent to the 160HP gas).. blah blah blah with specs of nyah compared to the Prius with specs of nyah and ... OMFG the Prius is slightly roomier ... Continuing on, the prices come out to the same $26K MSRP +/- a few hundred. OMFG! Is this what overpriced really means?

Now, let's compare to the similiar Camry and you find the Camry only very slightly roomier and a few K cheaper until you count the missing Nav and maybe some other options.

You previously named a 15K Civic, a watermelon to pineapple comparison. Well, no way it's the 4 door EX with Nav because that's $20+K. How about the bottom of the line DX sedan. The seating room is pretty close to the Prius, although it's missing 4" of rear legroom and 4 cu-ft of cargo space. Subtract NAV, premium audio, HID head lights, etc and I can see the $10K difference might be a bit much. But then I see you didn't like the cheap alacantara-like microfiber cloth upholstry used on many premium Bimmers, Subarus which are considered by many to be cheap vehicles. That's fine too, because you can get things in leather come 2006.

So now that we have this imaginary premium that somehow exists for Hybrids, but doesn't for SUVs, cars with bigger engines, and etc etc because V6+ German goodness and all that shininess of a Hummer somehow comes for free and you've already broken even without breaking the bank unlike the evil Hybrid?

For you real geeks, the Prius electronics hard-maintains charge levels between 40% to 80%. Pretty hard to kill a battery doing that.

Don't forget to add the reduced maintenance costs of hybrids because:
o some are Japanese cars
o they use their engines & brake pads a lot less
o the Prius does not have a timing belt so no replacement necessary
o lifetime no emissions tests in California
o 8 year/150K warranty on the hybrid battery (try to beat that with your regular car battery) for the Prius
o the Prius itself has been around since ~1997 with a few cabs already over 150K miles with no battery problems compared to how many million recalls for other cars?
o just oil change/tire rotation for the first 60->100K miles

Then there's the imaginary savings of having clean air so kids don't have asthma and growing up leaning on the health system a bit which is paid by OMFG my taxes. Of course it's arguable that the money would've went to Iraq anyways, b

And a Civic is seriously overpriced compared to a Geo Metro or a go-cart. Why not compare apples-to-apples, such as a Prius to an Accord or Camry since you want to compare to a car (midsize) of similar interior space & comforts, right?

Lessee, the equivalent Accord would be the 4-door sedan w/ nav with your voice activated NAV, ABS, 5 person seating, power everything, alarm, immobilizer, EBD, cruise, button covered steering wheel, air filtration, alloy wheels, 6 CD stereo system, similar engine specs (yes, the hybrid 1.5L is about equivalent to the 160HP gas).. blah blah blah with specs of nyah compared to the Prius with specs of nyah and ... OMFG the Prius is slightly roomier ... Continuing on, the prices come out to the same $26K MSRP +/- a few hundred. OMFG! Is this what overpriced really means?

Now, let's compare to the similiar Camry and you find the Camry only very slightly roomier and a few K cheaper until you count the missing Nav and maybe some other options.

You previously named a 15K Civic, a watermelon to pineapple comparison. Well, no way it's the 4 door EX with Nav because that's $20+K. How about the bottom of the line DX sedan. The seating room is pretty close to the Prius, although it's missing 4" of rear legroom and 4 cu-ft of cargo space. Subtract NAV, premium audio, HID head lights, etc and I can see the $10K difference might be a bit much. But then I see you didn't like the cheap alacantara-like microfiber cloth upholstry used on many premium Bimmers, Subarus which are considered by many to be cheap vehicles. That's fine too, because you can get things in leather come 2006.

So now that we have this imaginary premium that somehow exists for Hybrids, but doesn't for SUVs, cars with bigger engines, and etc etc because V6+ German goodness and all that shininess of a Hummer somehow comes for free and you've already broken even without breaking the bank unlike the evil Hybrid?

For you real geeks, the Prius electronics hard-maintains charge levels between 40% to 80%. Pretty hard to kill a battery doing that.

Don't forget to add the reduced maintenance costs of hybrids because:
o some are Japanese cars
o they use their engines & brake pads a lot less
o the Prius does not have a timing belt so no replacement necessary
o lifetime no emissions tests in California
o 8 year/150K warranty on the hybrid battery (try to beat that with your regular car battery) for the Prius
o the Prius itself has been around since ~1997 with a few cabs already over 150K miles with no battery problems compared to how many million recalls for other cars?
o just oil change/tire rotation for the first 60->100K miles

Then there's the imaginary savings of having clean air so kids don't have asthma and growing up leaning on the health system a bit which is paid by OMFG my taxes. Of course it's arguable that the money would've went to Iraq anyways, b

And a Civic is seriously overpriced compared to a Geo Metro or a go-cart. Why not compare apples-to-apples, such as a Prius to an Accord or Camry since you want to compare to a car (midsize) of similar interior space & comforts, right?

Lessee, the equivalent Accord would be the 4-door sedan w/ nav with your voice activated NAV, ABS, 5 person seating, power everything, alarm, immobilizer, EBD, cruise, button covered steering wheel, air filtration, alloy wheels, 6 CD stereo system, similar engine specs (yes, the hybrid 1.5L is about equivalent to the 160HP gas).. blah blah blah with specs of nyah compared to the Prius with specs of nyah and ... OMFG the Prius is slightly roomier ... Continuing on, the prices come out to the same $26K MSRP +/- a few hundred. OMFG! Is this what overpriced really means?

Now, let's compare to the similiar Camry and you find the Camry only very slightly roomier and a few K cheaper until you count the missing Nav and maybe some other options.

You previously named a 15K Civic, a watermelon to pineapple comparison. Well, no way it's the 4 door EX with Nav because that's $20+K. How about the bottom of the line DX sedan. The seating room is pretty close to the Prius, although it's missing 4" of rear legroom and 4 cu-ft of cargo space. Subtract NAV, premium audio, HID head lights, etc and I can see the $10K difference might be a bit much. But then I see you didn't like the cheap alacantara-like microfiber cloth upholstry used on many premium Bimmers, Subarus which are considered by many to be cheap vehicles. That's fine too, because you can get things in leather come 2006.

So now that we have this imaginary premium that somehow exists for Hybrids, but doesn't for SUVs, cars with bigger engines, and etc etc because V6+ German goodness and all that shininess of a Hummer somehow comes for free and you've already broken even without breaking the bank unlike the evil Hybrid?

For you real geeks, the Prius electronics hard-maintains charge levels between 40% to 80%. Pretty hard to kill a battery doing that.

Don't forget to add the reduced maintenance costs of hybrids because:
o some are Japanese cars
o they use their engines & brake pads a lot less
o the Prius does not have a timing belt so no replacement necessary
o lifetime no emissions tests in California
o 8 year/150K warranty on the hybrid battery (try to beat that with your regular car battery) for the Prius
o the Prius itself has been around since ~1997 with a few cabs already over 150K miles with no battery problems compared to how many million recalls for other cars?
o just oil change/tire rotation for the first 60->100K miles

Then there's the imaginary savings of having clean air so kids don't have asthma and growing up leaning on the health system a bit which is paid by OMFG my taxes. Of course it's arguable that the money would've went to Iraq anyways, b

And a Civic is seriously overpriced compared to a Geo Metro or a go-cart. Why not compare apples-to-apples, such as a Prius to an Accord or Camry since you want to compare to a car (midsize) of similar interior space & comforts, right?

Lessee, the equivalent Accord would be the 4-door sedan w/ nav with your voice activated NAV, ABS, 5 person seating, power everything, alarm, immobilizer, EBD, cruise, button covered steering wheel, air filtration, alloy wheels, 6 CD stereo system, similar engine specs (yes, the hybrid 1.5L is about equivalent to the 160HP gas).. blah blah blah with specs of nyah compared to the Prius with specs of nyah and ... OMFG the Prius is slightly roomier ... Continuing on, the prices come out to the same $26K MSRP +/- a few hundred. OMFG! Is this what overpriced really means?

Now, let's compare to the similiar Camry and you find the Camry only very slightly roomier and a few K cheaper until you count the missing Nav and maybe some other options.

You previously named a 15K Civic, a watermelon to pineapple comparison. Well, no way it's the 4 door EX with Nav because that's $20+K. How about the bottom of the line DX sedan. The seating room is pretty close to the Prius, although it's missing 4" of rear legroom and 4 cu-ft of cargo space. Subtract NAV, premium audio, HID head lights, etc and I can see the $10K difference might be a bit much. But then I see you didn't like the cheap alacantara-like microfiber cloth upholstry used on many premium Bimmers, Subarus which are considered by many to be cheap vehicles. That's fine too, because you can get things in leather come 2006.

So now that we have this imaginary premium that somehow exists for Hybrids, but doesn't for SUVs, cars with bigger engines, and etc etc because V6+ German goodness and all that shininess of a Hummer somehow comes for free and you've already broken even without breaking the bank unlike the evil Hybrid?

For you real geeks, the Prius electronics hard-maintains charge levels between 40% to 80%. Pretty hard to kill a battery doing that.

Don't forget to add the reduced maintenance costs of hybrids because:
o some are Japanese cars
o they use their engines & brake pads a lot less
o the Prius does not have a timing belt so no replacement necessary
o lifetime no emissions tests in California
o 8 year/150K warranty on the hybrid battery (try to beat that with your regular car battery) for the Prius
o the Prius itself has been around since ~1997 with a few cabs already over 150K miles with no battery problems compared to how many million recalls for other cars?
o just oil change/tire rotation for the first 60->100K miles

Then there's the imaginary savings of having clean air so kids don't have asthma and growing up leaning on the health system a bit which is paid by OMFG my taxes. Of course it's arguable that the money would've went to Iraq anyways, b

And a Civic is seriously overpriced compared to a Geo Metro or a go-cart. Why not compare apples-to-apples, such as a Prius to an Accord or Camry since you want to compare to a car (midsize) of similar interior space & comforts, right?

Lessee, the equivalent Accord would be the 4-door sedan w/ nav with your voice activated NAV, ABS, 5 person seating, power everything, alarm, immobilizer, EBD, cruise, button covered steering wheel, air filtration, alloy wheels, 6 CD stereo system, similar engine specs (yes, the hybrid 1.5L is about equivalent to the 160HP gas).. blah blah blah with specs of nyah compared to the Prius with specs of nyah and ... OMFG the Prius is slightly roomier ... Continuing on, the prices come out to the same $26K MSRP +/- a few hundred. OMFG! Is this what overpriced really means?

Now, let's compare to the similiar Camry and you find the Camry only very slightly roomier and a few K cheaper until you count the missing Nav and maybe some other options.

You previously named a 15K Civic, a watermelon to pineapple comparison. Well, no way it's the 4 door EX with Nav because that's $20+K. How about the bottom of the line DX sedan. The seating room is pretty close to the Prius, although it's missing 4" of rear legroom and 4 cu-ft of cargo space. Subtract NAV, premium audio, HID head lights, etc and I can see the $10K difference might be a bit much. But then I see you didn't like the cheap alacantara-like microfiber cloth upholstry used on many premium Bimmers, Subarus which are considered by many to be cheap vehicles. That's fine too, because you can get things in leather come 2006.

So now that we have this imaginary premium that somehow exists for Hybrids, but doesn't for SUVs, cars with bigger engines, and etc etc because V6+ German goodness and all that shininess of a Hummer somehow comes for free and you've already broken even without breaking the bank unlike the evil Hybrid?

For you real geeks, the Prius electronics hard-maintains charge levels between 40% to 80%. Pretty hard to kill a battery doing that.

Don't forget to add the reduced maintenance costs of hybrids because:
o some are Japanese cars
o they use their engines & brake pads a lot less
o the Prius does not have a timing belt so no replacement necessary
o lifetime no emissions tests in California
o 8 year/150K warranty on the hybrid battery (try to beat that with your regular car battery) for the Prius
o the Prius itself has been around since ~1997 with a few cabs already over 150K miles with no battery problems compared to how many million recalls for other cars?
o just oil change/tire rotation for the first 60->100K miles

Then there's the imaginary savings of having clean air so kids don't have asthma and growing up leaning on the health system a bit which is paid by OMFG my taxes. Of course it's arguable that the money would've went to Iraq anyways, b

And a Civic is seriously overpriced compared to a Geo Metro or a go-cart. Why not compare apples-to-apples, such as a Prius to an Accord or Camry since you want to compare to a car (midsize) of similar interior space & comforts, right?

Lessee, the equivalent Accord would be the 4-door sedan w/ nav with your voice activated NAV, ABS, 5 person seating, power everything, alarm, immobilizer, EBD, cruise, button covered steering wheel, air filtration, alloy wheels, 6 CD stereo system, similar engine specs (yes, the hybrid 1.5L is about equivalent to the 160HP gas).. blah blah blah with specs of nyah compared to the Prius with specs of nyah and ... OMFG the Prius is slightly roomier ... Continuing on, the prices come out to the same $26K MSRP +/- a few hundred. OMFG! Is this what overpriced really means?

Now, let's compare to the similiar Camry and you find the Camry only very slightly roomier and a few K cheaper until you count the missing Nav and maybe some other options.

You previously named a 15K Civic, a watermelon to pineapple comparison. Well, no way it's the 4 door EX with Nav because that's $20+K. How about the bottom of the line DX sedan. The seating room is pretty close to the Prius, although it's missing 4" of rear legroom and 4 cu-ft of cargo space. Subtract NAV, premium audio, HID head lights, etc and I can see the $10K difference might be a bit much. But then I see you didn't like the cheap alacantara-like microfiber cloth upholstry used on many premium Bimmers, Subarus which are considered by many to be cheap vehicles. That's fine too, because you can get things in leather come 2006.

So now that we have this imaginary premium that somehow exists for Hybrids, but doesn't for SUVs, cars with bigger engines, and etc etc because V6+ German goodness and all that shininess of a Hummer somehow comes for free and you've already broken even without breaking the bank unlike the evil Hybrid?

For you real geeks, the Prius electronics hard-maintains charge levels between 40% to 80%. Pretty hard to kill a battery doing that.

Don't forget to add the reduced maintenance costs of hybrids because:
o some are Japanese cars
o they use their engines & brake pads a lot less
o the Prius does not have a timing belt so no replacement necessary
o lifetime no emissions tests in California
o 8 year/150K warranty on the hybrid battery (try to beat that with your regular car battery) for the Prius
o the Prius itself has been around since ~1997 with a few cabs already over 150K miles with no battery problems compared to how many million recalls for other cars?
o just oil change/tire rotation for the first 60->100K miles

Then there's the imaginary savings of having clean air so kids don't have asthma and growing up leaning on the health system a bit which is paid by OMFG my taxes. Of course it's arguable that the money would've went to Iraq anyways, b

Well considering that AFAICT all the currently available gas/electric hybrids on the market get considerably worse mileage on the freeway than they do in stop and go traffic [...]

Honda's hybrids all get better gas mileage on the highway than in the city:

• Honda Insight: 60mpg city, 66mpg highway (source)
• Honda Civic Hybrid: 46mpg city, 51mpg highway (source)
• Honda Accord Hybrid: 29mpg city, 37mpg highway (source)

I've been very happy with the Honda Insight that I bought in 2001.

Well considering that AFAICT all the currently available gas/electric hybrids on the market get considerably worse mileage on the freeway than they do in stop and go traffic [...]

Honda's hybrids all get better gas mileage on the highway than in the city:

• Honda Insight: 60mpg city, 66mpg highway (source)
• Honda Civic Hybrid: 46mpg city, 51mpg highway (source)
• Honda Accord Hybrid: 29mpg city, 37mpg highway (source)

I've been very happy with the Honda Insight that I bought in 2001.

Well considering that AFAICT all the currently available gas/electric hybrids on the market get considerably worse mileage on the freeway than they do in stop and go traffic [...]

Honda's hybrids all get better gas mileage on the highway than in the city:

• Honda Insight: 60mpg city, 66mpg highway (source)
• Honda Civic Hybrid: 46mpg city, 51mpg highway (source)
• Honda Accord Hybrid: 29mpg city, 37mpg highway (source)

I've been very happy with the Honda Insight that I bought in 2001.

The One Tank Challenge demonstrated that on a 62L gas tank it's possible to drive Toronto city traffic for 972 KMs getting better than 5.9L/100KM (or roughly 50MPG).

While that's interesting, it doesn't quite match up with what others have reported. Seeing as the people touting the 50MPG are Ford themselves, I'd have to take their numbers with a grain of salt.

Yeah, but the evolution of planes is... intelligent design :-)

Unlike the evolution of automobiles.

Oh no, not another Prius owner!

Here's an article:

Most Hybrid Vehicles Not as Cost-Effective as They Seem

But buy what you want. You might be better off with a Prius. I might be better off with an SUV, even when I factor in the cost of the gas.

That's why they make both SUVs and Prius and that's why they let us decide for ourselves what we need.

Still no controls made/planned for:

* not respecting safety distances,
* not keeping one's right on multilane highways,
* overused tyres/windshield wipers,
* improper (non-)use of lights and/or out of order lights,
* cell phone/eat/drink/make up at the wheel,
* _unbuckled children on rear seats_...

And UK is far from being the only one. I'm French and the trouble with the French government currently is that they don't seem to have acknowledged AT ALL the lessons from the Great Britain example.

But there's more. Modern cars are so quiet, comfortable nowadays that you don't even get the impression of going at all while driving at legal speeds on the motorway (and it's 130 kph here). Tested in a 2005 Opel Vectra. At least, my 200hp/930kg Speedster Turbo is NOISY at 130+, and that sure helps slowing things down.

Volkswagen, literally "people's car," has been producing vehicles in Germany since its original founder, Adolf Hitler, brainstormed their first concept. Their niche was once to build a car that the everyday Aryan could afford, and to bring strength by empowering their people to commute cheaply and effectively where they needed to go. Today, Volkswagen is much more, representing an entry-level German nameplate for automobile owners to get the trademarks set by every German automobile: great styling, great handling, and prohibitively expensive repairs.

Their product repertoire includes several historical namesakes from previous generations, as well as modern day contenders in the 21st century automobile market. The New Beetle and the Jetta are Volkswagen's entry level vehicles for German beginners. Moving up the chain brings you the Passat and the Golf, for European luxury in midsize prices. At the top of the chain brings the near-luxury Touareg (German for "SUV") and Phaeton (German for "German Luxury"). What Volkswagen wants you to forget, however, is their rich lineage which spawned today's vehicles.

Founded in 1932 by the famed Nazi leader, his first project was to design a vehicle which would aid in building the strength of the fascist state. The car would be built to mimic the symbolic ideals of the cult-like ruling Nazi party. The Beetle, it was to be called, would be Volkswagen's first foray into enabling the Nazi leaders to commute to battle meetings to coordinate the death of the Allies. Throughout the War of Europe and subsequently World War II, Volkswagen earned the Nazi regime heavy profits due to its rapid expansion and slave labor. This, in turn, allowed Volkswagen to expand plants to newly-acquired German territory in Russia, as well as Czechoslovakia.

After the crumbling of the Nazi party, and effectively the entire German social structure in 1945, Volkswagen was left without its founder and entire management structure. Influenced by the opportunity of quick expansion, wealthy British entrepreneur Richard Branson, Sr. invested hundreds of millions of dollars into the plants to retool them for postwar production throughout Europe. Volkswagen was then reborn to make models that would carry its rich heritage to nations left unaffected by its founder.

Throughout the 1950's, 60's and 70's, the world went through major changes as a global economy started trickling into every nation.

Funny, I don't see calls to have BMW or Mercedes be able to drop their engines in a GM or Chrysler. Nor is there any real benefit to BMW or Mercedes to even do this.

I know, you were only trying to give an example but you chose a very bad one. Chrysler already has a car with a Mercedes engine, it is called the Crossfire. In many ways, it was an advantage to the customers for both of the companies to work together on one product.

a porsche is less average than an SUV which would get even lower mpg. it seems like you specifically chose a non-average car so that your mpg listing for it would be unhelpful. i'm not sure why you didn't pick something that you would call average, like a camry (22/33 mpg), accord (25/33) or taurus (20/27 mpg)

http://www.edmunds.com/new/index.html?tid=edmunds. n.zipentry.new..2.*

Most of the links on this page don't work in konq. 3.40

Baseball; football? Sports sells.

Howard Sterns sells (well, maybe not to Hyundai owners:

http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/News/articleI d=105622)

Fortunately, the Prius has had a CVT since it was released in 2001, so you don't have those peaks.

nobody could change into your lane (without signalling) and _then_ slam on the brakes. So now in addition to a conservative following distance, you also need a conservative following distance behind any cars in lanes adjacent to you.

And thus still doesn't solve the problem of you looking the wrong way when a tree falls in the roadway, or any other variety of problems.

Also, at extremely slow speeds the argument falls apart because following distance is more dominated by human reaction time than vehicle speed, i.e. you could safely stop NO PROBLEM if you were looking where you were supposed to, but continuing to drive at 5-10mph for an additional second would cause you to rear end somebody.

And old people never veer the car to the left as they look left over their shoulder.

It's a bad habit. The driver-car interface has the general property that the car tends to go where the driver is looking. Try looking straight sideways sometime and see where in the lane your car is after a few seconds of that. Now try doing it while the road turns.

Let me say this again: the advice you get for a normal licensing test is insufficient. Just because you couldn't find anything doesn't mean it doesn't exist - read any books on competitive driving or talk to any people that instruct at driving schools - they'll tell you just what i have.

Also, you didn't look very hard:

http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Features/arti cleId=104950

search for the word "mirror"

My wife has been in at least one stop-and-go accident that could have been avoided if she'd been looking ahead instead of over her shoulder. It was not an issue of tailgating either, since she (like many people) are very anxious about following distance.

Suppose taht you're in busy traffic and you need to make a lane change. You look over your shoulder and, it looks clear but at the last second someone dives into that lane so you have to abort your lane attempt. Technically you should look forward now, but what many drivers so is continue looking into the lane to see when the next "hole" appears. This takes a quick lane change and turns it into a long one.. the driver has no idea what has happened ahead of them.

I would postulate that the number of accidents that result from someone rear ending a car whilst looking over their shoulder (even with an appropriate following distance) is higher than the number of accidents that result from someone making a lane change with properly adjusted mirrors. the latter situation is entirely more avoidable as well, by the way. Once you realize you're going to rear end someone, it's basically up to adhesion physics and you've become a passenger instead of a driver (unless you have the presence of mind to have an exit strategy and the skills to apply it).

When you make a lane change that you shouldn't have (Because you didn't see a car in your rear 3/4 view or whatever)

a) they know its coming (your signal)
b) they're "mostly" behind you (if not all the way behind you), making a braking avoidance more effective on their part
c) they're not going rapidly faster than you (because doing so is unsafe and typically illegal)
d) they can lane split with you and the shoulder (or a foot or so of the next lane) while doing avoidance.

The potential accident from a shoulder check (rear ending someone) is a) harder to avoid b) more damaging c) always your fault

the potential accident from an improper lane change is a) easier to avoid b) less damaging c) depends on the circumstances.. if i lane change into someone doing 120, im not sure the judge will fault me for not doing a shoulder check (in the USA)

The fact that only a few American cars have these features indicates that adoption could be a bigger issue than development for many of these technologies.