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Of course if record companies are getting paid, but artists still getting screwed, it's "OK" to use iTunes too?

There's always eMusic. :)

Until I get unecumbered MP3 downloads, I won't pay for it online. I'll stick to going to the local indie store

Or you can go to the online indie store, which sells downloads in the Fraunhofer format you ask for.

The best solution would be a convenient service through which I could buy the music I want unencumbered by DRM. I don't know of one.

That reminds me, I just got a refresh on eMusic, time to download some legal MP3s for 25c each.

What were you saying?

Also emusic http://www.emusic.com/ seem to make plenty of money, and are the no.2 online music store only after iTMS. They sell music in unencrypted MP3 files. They may not have Britney Spears, but they have a lot of labels and artists with chart music - people like the White Stripes, Paul Weller etc.

The question implies that DRM stops people releasing unprotected tracks to the Internet for illegal download. But it doesn't. It is a trivial matter to bypass any DRM and extract the content. No ammount of DRM has even slowed illegal downloads, if anything it has added to it. People would rather have a non-DRM copy. If you want to know about an economy without DRM talk to emusic, or Audio Lunch Box. It might not be all the music you are interested in personally, but they have a business model based on non-DRM music downloads.

Or just use emusic. No DRM, Mp3, way cheaper than iTunes. I love it.

"You know what the worst thing about being a slave is? They make you work hard without paying you or letting you go."

The RIAA's argument is that you didn't pay for the tunes, you paid for a license to play the tunes. DRM inhibits your actual rights on the assumption that if it were easy to do so, your legal downloads would immediately be copied to your "kazaa" share folder. You're complaint ranks up there with "murderers kill" on redundance-o-meter scorings.

For DRM-free tunes, check out eMusic, but only if you're into indie. (By indie, I mean independent label, not that mumble-and-strum stuff we see labelled "indie" on the billboards. If you want to download the latest "Avril Lavigne", "Dave Matthews Band", "Evanescence" or other pop music, don't bother with eMusic. It'll be a waste of your time. If, on the other hand, you recognize names like Sufjan Stevens, Belle & Sebastian, The White Stripes, The Decemberists, Dashboard Confessional, Spoon, Ying-Yang Twins, Moby, The New Pornographers, The Pixies, Arcade Fire, The Strokes, Bloc Party, MIA, Lady Sovereign, You Get The General Idea; eMusic may be right up your alley. If you're a metal fan, it could go either way. If you're into that whole third-gen-goth Nightwish/Lacuna Coil sound, you will find the new Tristania album as well as some Sirenia and other goodies.)

I hope you know about this.

It's not ogg or flac, but it isn't DRM, either...

1) $0.22/track - Check

2) None - Check

3) See 1) - Check

4) Nope, sorry.

5) Maybe, I've seen extra tracks available for some albums...

6) Check

Check it out!

It is nice to hear an Internet superpower talk about selling "plain old MP3s," but eMusic has been doing this for years (well before the iPod even existed). They don't have acts like Jessica Simpson, or even Radiohead, but they do have a huge collection of quality, interesting music. Loads of Indie Rock, Underground Hiphop, old and new jazz, lots of classic stuff and new albums come in everyday. It's cheap and no watermarks, either.

I'm a serious music collector and plain MP3s simplify my collection--DRM is a major headache when you just want to HAVE music and store it anyway you like.

I may wind up going with iTMS but would prefer unencumbered Mp3s

It doesn't sound like you have tried out emusic.

It may or may not be what you are looking for, but based on your post, it sounds like it is worth checking out...

eMusic. $0.25 per song (or less!), over a million songs to choose from in many different genres. And what they send you is unencumbered MP3s. No DRM, universal compatibility. Try it out for free by downloading a recent Winamp -- 50 free songs are included. (or sign up for a 14-day, 25 song trial via their website). Support good non-RIAA music!

Note: I have no affiliation with eMusic, other then being a satisfied customer.

As a Pixies fan they know I would pay through the nose to complete my collection.

sigh... Maybe you should look here

If I'm going to buy a whole album off iTunes at a dollar a song, an average of 12 songs would cost me $12 bucks... I pretty much only buy music that's not on the radio, so the cd's I usually look at are between $10-$12... so, for the same price of downloading an album I could have it in physical form (adding the ability to use it in a CD player and to look at pretty album art)... definitely not worth it for me to use iTunes to download all the music I want.
Furthermore, it doesn't help that I don't own and iPod (go Creative Zen, woo!) so iTunes songs are useless to me.

i'm interested to see how they would set up a legal music downloading system with absolutely no DRM wrapper

Perhaps like emusic.com, or magnatune.com, or allofmp3.com? Why must there be a DRM wrapper? Everything on iTunes is aready available FOR FREE on P2P networks, yet iTunes is still selling millions and millions of songs.

also, does their language seem...well, a little orwellian?

The language sounds Orwellian, as it should. DRM is not about combating piracy. DRM about control, private property, rights of first sale, free speech, and personal freedom-- all subjects about which Orwell wrote very eloquently.

"i'm interested to see how they would set up a legal music downloading system with absolutely no DRM wrapper."

http://www.emusic.com/

Non-DRMed VBR MP3s.

Give me something that's better than the (illegal) p2p-nets out there and I'll use it.

http://www.emusic.com/

At $.22 per track, decent VBR MP3 files with no DRM, over 600,000 tracks to choose from, HELL YEAH!

Of course the picky among us will still refuse for dubious reasons (30 second previews, don't like the way files are tagged, no Brittney, etc., ad nauseum).

But I, for one, support the things they are doing right (great selection, no DRM, you bought it - you own it) by subscribing. Get your 15 free tracks, browse the collection, see if you don't feel the same...

It's a chance to put your money where your mouth is.

I think I'm at the point that I'm ready to start screwing over musicians. It doesn't feel right, but it might be easier to convince "us" to stop joining RIAA labels by creating disincentives than to convince "them" that they should offer non-DRM, justly priced downloadable music.

When it comes to independent music (the bulk of what I buy now anyway), I'll always do the right thing. But the RIAA labels? Sorry. Whether that means not buying your music or ripping you off, it's economically one and the same. If the RIAA wants to take the high road, I'll get back on board. An example of labels doing it right by me? emusic - http://www.emusic.com/

emusic cant 'fix' this unless they get in bed with the corrupt labels & become equally corrupt themseleves.

It depends on what the artist is, there have been a surprising number of albums added just recently by some very mainstream artists:

Creedance Clearwater Revival
Moby
Ladytron
the White Stripes
Cat Power
Blackalicious

I've been having enough luck that lots of stuff I'm intreested in I go looking for on EMusic before I look on iTunes. After all, it's better quality and I don't have to pay a 99 with my subscription.

emusic cant 'fix' this unless they get in bed with the corrupt labels & become equally corrupt themseleves.

It depends on what the artist is, there have been a surprising number of albums added just recently by some very mainstream artists:

Creedance Clearwater Revival
Moby
Ladytron
the White Stripes
Cat Power
Blackalicious

I've been having enough luck that lots of stuff I'm intreested in I go looking for on EMusic before I look on iTunes. After all, it's better quality and I don't have to pay a 99 with my subscription.

emusic cant 'fix' this unless they get in bed with the corrupt labels & become equally corrupt themseleves.

It depends on what the artist is, there have been a surprising number of albums added just recently by some very mainstream artists:

Creedance Clearwater Revival
Moby
Ladytron
the White Stripes
Cat Power
Blackalicious

I've been having enough luck that lots of stuff I'm intreested in I go looking for on EMusic before I look on iTunes. After all, it's better quality and I don't have to pay a 99 with my subscription.

emusic cant 'fix' this unless they get in bed with the corrupt labels & become equally corrupt themseleves.

It depends on what the artist is, there have been a surprising number of albums added just recently by some very mainstream artists:

Creedance Clearwater Revival
Moby
Ladytron
the White Stripes
Cat Power
Blackalicious

I've been having enough luck that lots of stuff I'm intreested in I go looking for on EMusic before I look on iTunes. After all, it's better quality and I don't have to pay a 99 with my subscription.

emusic cant 'fix' this unless they get in bed with the corrupt labels & become equally corrupt themseleves.

It depends on what the artist is, there have been a surprising number of albums added just recently by some very mainstream artists:

Creedance Clearwater Revival
Moby
Ladytron
the White Stripes
Cat Power
Blackalicious

I've been having enough luck that lots of stuff I'm intreested in I go looking for on EMusic before I look on iTunes. After all, it's better quality and I don't have to pay a 99 with my subscription.

emusic cant 'fix' this unless they get in bed with the corrupt labels & become equally corrupt themseleves.

It depends on what the artist is, there have been a surprising number of albums added just recently by some very mainstream artists:

Creedance Clearwater Revival
Moby
Ladytron
the White Stripes
Cat Power
Blackalicious

I've been having enough luck that lots of stuff I'm intreested in I go looking for on EMusic before I look on iTunes. After all, it's better quality and I don't have to pay a 99 with my subscription.

We hate that "Big Media" is using ever "improving"/"tightening" DRM restrictions, but we have to accept them if we want the latest music, video, and computer content. ... If you don't like what they're doing, do without their content.

I couldn't agree more. May I recommend the fine selection of Lewis Black performances, and the excellent techno and metal sections?

You are both wrong; there is nothing to fix. Browse for yourself and see!

Hmmmn, personally, I don't see how a music store can call itself 'mainstream' until it's selling music from this band.

Sorry emusic - not ready for the prime time ;-)

(btw, that winky at the end means its a joke)

You are both wrong; there is nothing to fix. Browse for yourself and see!

Hmmmn, personally, I don't see how a music store can call itself 'mainstream' until it's selling music from this band.

Sorry emusic - not ready for the prime time ;-)

(btw, that winky at the end means its a joke)

Don't get me wrong -- I want to try emusic (but I can't figure out how to see what is available prior to signing up) but face it, there are many people out there who will find that emusic doesn't have the kind of music (namely, the artists they like) they want to hear.

Until emusic fixes this, they will not go fully mainstream.

> emusic cant 'fix' this unless they get in bed with the corrupt labels & become equally corrupt themseleves.

You are both wrong; there is nothing to fix. Browse for yourself and see!

but I can't figure out how to see what is available prior to signing up)

Don't forget bands like The Pixies, Bad Religion, Black Flag, Camper Van Beethoven, Eagles of Deathmetal, Guided by Voices, M.I.A., Creedence Clearwater Revival, The Kinks ... I could go on and on.

Another nice feature is that they offer a free song every day that you can download, to help you find new music. Good for you, good for the bands, good for their lables, and good for eMusic.

http://www.emusic.com/toolbar/daily_main.html

I've been an emusic subscriber for 3 years, I love it...

Thanks for saving me the trouble and disappointment of signing up. I compared The Billboard 200 with eMusic and found very little, if any correlation. The iTunes Music Store(ITMS), on the other hand, seems to have a much much higher amount of mainstream music. I'm not too keen on freakish garage bands so, I'll pass on eMusic.

I ran into the same issue before I subscribed. Here's the direct link.

Which bizarrely has not yet been posted here.

http://www.emusic.com/

Not to be a CDBaby fanboy (okay, EXACTLY to be a CDBaby fanboy) but if you're an artist that has listed your CD via CDBaby's digital distribution service, you are listed at eMusic :-)

And now the shameless plug ... I know this because my band Goodwin is also at eMusic, and according to our accounting reports we're getting some sales.

Name one other legal music service that will work with iPod.

eMusic

They even mention this in their FAQs:

The user bears sole responsibility for any use and distribution of all materials received from AllOFMP3.com. This responsibility is dependent on the national legislation in each user's country of residence. The Administration of AllOFMP3.com does not possess information on the laws of each particular country and is not responsible for the actions of foreign users.

I would say that eMusic is a much better group of people who have lots of cool indie stuff, like Calexico's new album Garden Ruin for a couple of bucks a month.

They even mention this in their FAQs:

The user bears sole responsibility for any use and distribution of all materials received from AllOFMP3.com. This responsibility is dependent on the national legislation in each user's country of residence. The Administration of AllOFMP3.com does not possess information on the laws of each particular country and is not responsible for the actions of foreign users.

I would say that eMusic is a much better group of people who have lots of cool indie stuff, like Calexico's new album Garden Ruin for a couple of bucks a month.

The Donna's are on eMusic. Just in case you care about paying musicians for their music instead of the Russian Mafia. Sucker.

Funny postscript: I accidently pasted "In case you care about paying musicians instead of the Russian Mafia," into the address bar ("I-feel-lucky-ing" it to the first google page) and this site came up.

Again this crap is being modded up! AllOfMP3.com don't pay the appropriate royalties to their artists. I very much doubt whether music downloaded from their site is appropriately licenced if you are buying it from outside Russia.

Like Stew77 said, emusic is the way to go if you don't want to support the big 'evil' labels. Give your money to independant labels, not dubious "too good to be true" Russian imports!

http://www.emusic.com/ has a pretty sweet deal on non-DRM mp3s as well, using a subscription model. They have a focus on minor labels.

The last thing I want is a subscription service. Honestly, who here wants a subscription service for music? Raise your hands.

Eh? Where the hell does iTunes get their music? It's making the record companies suffer? Using iTunes, Google Music, Rhapsody, Yahoo Music, Amazon, et al, supports the miserable music industry. It lets them think you want 'Fair' content that can only have 5 copies of. That's still being treated like a criminal, just with a bigger cell.

Buy DRM-less independent music if you want to be treated fairly.

eMusic Subcription-based, very cheap, a lot of great artists and indie labels (New Pornos, Spoon, Blackalicious, CCR, Thelonius Monk)

BLEEP A-la-carte, most electronic but has a lot of small labels, some stuff in FLAC (Warp records, Ninja Tune, One Little Indian/Bjork)

AudioLunchbox Subscription and a-la-carte, a little pricier than emusic but has some different artists (Death Cab for Cutie, The Sounds)

Calabash Mostly world and folk music (Tinariwen, reggae)

There are more. Hopefully Songbird will make it easier to access them all through a single interface.

Emusic sells un-DRMed mp3 files. They have a broad collection of minor label bands, defunct record labels (like sun), and current indie hits.

They don't have much, if any, of current major pop music. However, they're still a worthwhile option for music downloads.

DRM is a neccessary evil, unfortunately, because no record company, in their right mind, would agree to selling media without it.

Not true. I get a lot of good music from there, completely DRM free. Sure, there's none of the big labels, but that doesn't affect the quality at all. Just the names you recognise.

(Oh, and a plug for my program for Linux users: eMusic/J)

The iPod can play music purchased from other online retailers. eMusic distributes songs as unprotected MP3s, which the iPod can play.

Napster, Rhapsody et al could also distribute their music in a format compatible with iPod. No one is holding a gun to their heads making them use WMA with DRM.

Actually, I did read carefully. Unfortunately, he didn't write carefully.

by far most users chose http://www.emusic.com/ [emusic.com] because they use non-DRM-encumbered mp3.

If he wanted to make the point the point you suggest he did, he should have written something like:

Most of the users who choose emusic do so because their MP3s are not encumbered with DRM

Now to be fair, he could have meant to say that. But he didn't. Maybe the guy isn't a native English speaker, but I am, and I read that sentence as "most people use e-music".

Well, it's just that by far most users chose http://www.emusic.com/ because they use non-DRM-encumbered mp3.

Really? Most users? So I take it they'v sold more songs than itunes? Could you provide a source to some reliable figures proving this to be the case? Or could it be that you're spouting complete and utter bullshit? Yes, I think it could.

The online music market is divided in 3:
Apple and its FairPlay DRM
All the other big distributors and their MS DRM
Some small distributors use MP3 or OGG

">Good luck. How many labels are going to allow their music to be sold in a DRM-unencumbered format?

Probably none"

Actually, it's closer to 18560 labels acording to what's available on emusic.com.

http://www.emusic.com/browse/0/l/-dlm/l/0-0/0/0.ht ml