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I make more than 75k/y. Does this mean I am welcome? I am a high-skilled IT person.

If I could get a visa I could easily make 200K/year in the US.

Under what visa can I enter then? I have never seen a visa which stated a dollar figure. I do know that I could invest one million dollars into the US to enter.

Perhaps I am even so skilled to enter on the basis of being a special talent person, but I never tried that.

Yes, there is a place/site where you can look for to see how much money you can earn at what position you are supposed to be working in the U.S. Also, don't overestimate yourself too much on salary comparison.

How about we actually enforce the law rather than change it

Because it's difficult to enforce. How much does a 'software engineer' earn? The same job title applies to someone doing security and timing sensitive code for a microcontroller with 16KB of RAM and someone tweaking some PHP on a low-volume web site. The law requires that you pay the average wage for the profession, but if you want to hire people for the former occupation you're able to point to the large volume of people doing the latter to justify the salary. And the only thing that you have to do to justify hiring an H1B is advertise the job and be unable to find an American willing to do it (which is easy if you offer a sufficiently low salary).

You should do some research on H1B application process, then you would have a better idea of how it works. What you are saying here is a typical misconception of H1B process. There is a prevailing wage which should be around or above median wage of Americans, and it is separated by job type and location (e.g. prevailing wage for Software developer in Albany, NY). There is no need for job posting in any media for H1B in order to get LCA but rather post it at the work site (employer place). The job description must be clarified before selecting a job position. And so on... However, the abuse which has been going on works around the H1B process...

The calculation is a multiplier of the "average wage paid to similarly employed workers in a specific occupation in the area of intended employment." For some occupations and locations that can be found here:

http://www.flcdatacenter.com/

So a proposed H1-B in Dallas who would be paid twice the Dallas average for a similar position is on equal footing with an application for a job in San Jose who would be paid twice the San Jose average.

Please note I'm not advocating for or against this proposal, just explaining it.

The calculation is a multiplier of the "average wage paid to similarly employed workers in a specific occupation in the area of intended employment." For some occupations that can be found here:

http://www.flcdatacenter.com/

Age discrimination is illegal in the US, a company can't admit that age affects wages.

By current law, H1-B employers are supposed to pay at least the average wage. Proposals by Trump by a Congresswoman from California leverage the idea that those employees for which someone is willing to pay 200% or 300% of the average wage for a similar position must indeed be highly needed.

Flipping back through the entire set of links, that's not stated at all. It is implied, but so is the fact that some of these workers will be onsite.

Is this too hard to understand? First link: The University of California is laying off a group of IT workers at its San Francisco campus as part of a plan to move work offshore. Laying off IT workers as part of a shift to offshore is somewhere between rare and unheard-of in the public sector.

The fact that you fall back on literal statements to support your view that they are temporary workers

I'm not "supporting my view"; I'm simply using the correct, official terminology for these workers. And given the nature of their job, I'd expect them to be gone in a year, since they are not actually replacing the staff at UCSF, but just preparing for outsourcing.

You'd be [correct]. In the US, that works through a green card application, or it used to, hence my reference to rolling back immigration laws to that of the 70s.

FTFY. You are agreeing prefectly with me: the US used to give out employment-based green cards in the past, but now it has a two step system that uses the H-1B category as a stage towards skill based immigration. That is, the H-1B category is used for two separate purposes: actual temporary workers, and workers that go on to become permanent residents.

That page already had region selected, specifically for SF. You can go back through the process via "Find Occupations" if you wish to verify all aspects.

No, it didn't. If you dig down into that page, you'll find that there is a link for state level wages, which for that job category have a median of $75k. If you look at the actual labor certification site, there is a mean wage of $83k.

I'm not sure what exactly you want to show anyway. Labor certification requires H-1B salaries to be higher than prevailing wage, and those are the prevailing wages.

I already answered to someone's post already. What you said is actually a misconception of H1-B visa that is very common for those who do not really know much about the visa. A H1-B holder CAN change his/her employer at any time while holding a visa without the need to let the current employer know. The only requirement is the new employer must file for a petition as if it is a new application but with certain exceptions -- http://www.immihelp.com/visas/...

Also, auctioning the visa will create another issue later on. If you think that big companies/corporations will not find a way to work around the system, you have too much trust on them. Besides, how would small companies (which is the main idea in TFA) compete with bigger companies/corporations for the visa price anyway?

Another issue with your idea is that it would result in most if not all of the H1-B holders would be in technology. Currently, the visa is for many different fields (if you want to check all of these fields, go to http://www.flcdatacenter.com/ ); however, the prevailing wages for technology field are at the top. In other words, there is no point having other job fields for other smaller companies to get a visa for their employees then.

TFA is actually talking about how big companies/corporations abuse the visa, NOT about what's wrong with the visa. Your trend of solution is trying to change the current visa method, but it is just a matter of time for big companies/corporations to find another way to abuse it again.

I am not suggesting any solution because I don't have time to think about it. The issue is not as simple as it seems to be, and any change will have more impact to smaller companies whose the visa is supposed to be for rather than for big companies/corporations.

How come the parent post is rated as informative/interesting? It has NOTHING to do with the point of TFA but to arouse those who are anti H1B. Of course, TFA highlighted only high number. If you really dig into the data given as a link by TFA, you should at least see what TFA is directed to.

TFA gave a link -- http://www.flcdatacenter.com/d... -- to FLC site which is the list of prevailing wage for all job codes related to areas in the US. The only missing link for comparison in TFA, for me, is the hiring salary from all companies. As a result, it looks to me that TFA assumes/uses those high salaries as a standard paid by most companies (look at the number of applicants given in TFA example) which is unlikely true.

I understand that FLC listed the minimum salary based on job title that a company must pay (if you download and look in the readme.txt). The only problem is that it is just data in the book, but not the data in practice. Think of it as book keeping in accounting, a business owner may keep 2 books - one for submitting taxes and the other for real revenues/losses. Thus, the real salary may not reflect the one used in the application, and it is usually lower for those companies that know the work around.

I suspect that the survey is bullshit

Before thinking about survey, you should go to the direct source of how the "prevailing wage" is set - http://www.flcdatacenter.com/O... Then you could see that the "price" has been set. Engineer types get higher wage than Developer and Programmer. Nothing is secret.

Whenever someone talks about H1B, many people would associate it with "Big corporation" or "Cheap labor" which is stereotyping. The intention of the program has been good, but it is abused by big corporations; thus, these coporations give it a bad name. I hope that those who have negative feeling toward the program would open their mind and learn more about what the program really is for rather than close their mind and reject everything about the program.

"You can't pay less than $80k to an H1B"

BS. You have to pay the "minimum or prevailing wage in that geographic location for your particular position", which more often than not actually translates to well below the actual prevailing wage for the area and pretty much always well below $80k. It's also trivial to fudge by playing games with job titles:

Online Wage Library - FLC Wage Search Wizard

Does a "Application Software Developer" cost to much? Save a bit by calling them an "Analyst", or call them a "Web Developer" and save yourself $30k! :-/

Even in most all of the highest wage markets in the US, it's trivial to get a "prevailing wage" well south of $80k with an H1B. AND they are effectively indentured servants (a small step up from slave): They can't complain, they have no real freedom to get fed up with your BS and quit.

Based on inflation, don't take less than $53K starting.

According to prevailing wage for an H1B person, the fresh graduated person would get his/her salary at $56,597/year in New York, NY [ http://www.flcdatacenter.com/O... ], $42,806/year in Boise, ID [ http://www.flcdatacenter.com/O... ], and $72,613/year in San Francisco, CA [ http://www.flcdatacenter.com/O... ]. So it all depends on where you live...

Based on inflation, don't take less than $53K starting.

According to prevailing wage for an H1B person, the fresh graduated person would get his/her salary at $56,597/year in New York, NY [ http://www.flcdatacenter.com/O... ], $42,806/year in Boise, ID [ http://www.flcdatacenter.com/O... ], and $72,613/year in San Francisco, CA [ http://www.flcdatacenter.com/O... ]. So it all depends on where you live...

Based on inflation, don't take less than $53K starting.

According to prevailing wage for an H1B person, the fresh graduated person would get his/her salary at $56,597/year in New York, NY [ http://www.flcdatacenter.com/O... ], $42,806/year in Boise, ID [ http://www.flcdatacenter.com/O... ], and $72,613/year in San Francisco, CA [ http://www.flcdatacenter.com/O... ]. So it all depends on where you live...

You selected the All Industries database for 7/2013 - 6/2014.
Your search returned the following: Print Format
Area Code:33860
Area Title:Montgomery, AL MSA
OES/SOC Code:15-1134
http://www.flcdatacenter.com/O...
OES/SOC Title:Web Developers
GeoLevel:1
Level 1 Wage:$15.63 hour - $32,510 year
Level 2 Wage:$20.42 hour - $42,474 year
Level 3 Wage:$25.20 hour - $52,416 year
Level 4 Wage:$29.99 hour - $62,379 year
Mean Wage (H-2B):$25.21 hour - $52,437 year

Pet notions...

Actually it's not just IT folks, it's lots of professions. I just looked at the E-File data from the Dept. of Labor from 2007. That was easy and "at hand" but there's other positions out there being hired on as H1-B

Kindergarten Teacher
Associate Director - Financial Analyst
Bankruptcy Auditor
Copy Writer
Internal Medicine Physician
Lecturer

And others.

So while a lot of the positions asking for H1-B candidates are IT related there's still a lot that I can't figure out why they can't find a local candidate. Also consider that this is before the recession hit for Visas for 2007 requested in 2006. I'm going to look around and see if I can find more current data but again, the H1-B Visa issue isn't just about IT.

Also with your comment

usual suspect Indian staffing firms

I'm working with a client right now who showed a "Right Shore" provider the door. Are we having problems finding people? No. Do we need H1-B Visas to supply staff? No.

Net, Net this whole damn H1-B mess has been set up due to political arm-twisting to introduce cheap labor not only into IT but into all high value positions in the US.

This is already how H-1B visas work. They must be paid at or above the average wage for their job title and location.

The wages are listed here: http://www.flcdatacenter.com/

Resurrecting this long-dormant account to respond to this trolling:

Firstly, speaking as an H-1B holder, the law *requires* that H-1B workers are paid the average salary or better for their job title in their location -- e.g. an H-1B worker hired as a "junior software engineer" in San Francisco cannot be paid less than $90,000. It is therefore mathematically impossible for H-1B workers to lower the average wage paid to tech workers. If you're curious about what H-1B wages are like near you, you can look them up here: http://www.flcdatacenter.com/

Secondly, speaking as a co-founder of a startup, I can assure you that the skills gap is extremely real. Merely having a CS degree does not impart you with some magical ability to write quality software. The world is full of really terrible coders, and almost no good ones. It is extremely hard to hire right now.

If you still have that attitude toward H1B, look at what the salary they get here http://www.flcdatacenter.com/OesWizardStart.aspx Select the state you want and then look for an appropriate position. Tell me if it is too high or too low in your opinion. The wage is related to its location, so it would be different in different cities. Remember, 65,000 H1B are included both entry level and higher education of Master level. Doctorate level, professional sport, and medical doctors are not included because they are an exception.

An example...

Area Code:44060
Area Title:Spokane, WA MSA
OES/SOC Code:15-1131
OES/SOC Title:Computer Programmers
GeoLevel:1
Level 1 Wage:$18.06 hour - $37,565 year
Level 2 Wage:$22.40 hour - $46,592 year
Level 3 Wage:$26.75 hour - $55,640 year
Level 4 Wage:$31.09 hour - $64,667 year
Mean Wage (H-2B):$26.75 hour - $55,640 year

Given the extremely small proportion of local workers on H-1Bs and the relatively high starting salaries in those regions, you'd need to back that up.

If you are saying that the starting salaries in those regions are higher than the rest of the US, then you are correct. This due to the salary adjustments needed to overcome the high cost of living in those regions. This affects the absolute minimum of what it would take to pay a salary worker, meaning I can take the national average salary for a given profession and then apply the required adjustment to offset the cost of living and voila you have the "relatively high starting wages". Since average wage is floating (non-fixed) it can lower each year and thanks to the cost of living adjustments these regions will still have a relatively high starting wage. So you made an accurate statement while masking the effects of the H1B program. I'll also point out that you qualified your wages as "starting" which equates to the lowest salary range of a given profession, and presumably below the average career wage.

I'd like to know where you came to the conclusion that there is an "extremely small proportion of local workers on H-1Bs". Did you mean proportion relative to the general population of workers, or relative to local workers of a given profession?

I think anyone who asks for citations, should at least back up their assertions to the contrary. Otherwise, its a lazy attempt to make your assertions seem more valid while at the same time asserting that the original poster is making stuff up.

There is a staggering amount of material searchable on Google that supports the theory that H1B is being used to keep wages low and being used unnecessarily. This is due to the fact that H1B is such a hot topic in the IT sector.

Anyway I googled for a hard number to give you and right off the bat I see studies citing that 9 out of 10 new jobs in the tech field during 2003 were being filled by H-1Bs.

I also found an essay written by John Miano whose conclusions included:

• Since 1999, the United States has approved enough H-1B visas for computer workers to fill 87 percent of net computer job growth over that period.
• Since 1999, the United States has had a net loss of 76,000 engineering jobs. Over the same time period, the United States has approved an average of 16,000 new H-1B visas each year for engineers.
• If current employment trends continue and the H-1B quota remains unchanged, the United States will approve enough H-1B visas for computer workers to fill about 79 percent of the computer jobs it creates each year.

His data sources are:

• H-1B figures come from the Annual Reports on H-1B visas issued by the Immigration and Naturalization Service and its successor, U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services (data available 2000-2005). This supplied the number of new H-1B visas and the number of new H-1B visas for computer and engineering workers.
• Labor Condition Applications (LCAs) come from the Foreign Labor Certification Data Center, http://www.flcdatacenter.com/ (data available 2001-2007). The study used approved LCAs for computer workers.
• Overall employment figures come from the Bureau of Labor Statistics Census of Employment and Wages, http://www.bls.gov/cew (annual data available 1994-2006).
• Employment figures for computer and engineering professionals come from the Bureau of Labor Statistics Occupational Employment Statistics, http://www.bls.gov/oes (data available 1999-2006).
• Turnover rates are from Bureau of Labor Statistics Job Openings and Labor Turnover Survey, http://www.bls.gov/jlt/.

He was arguing that top rung foreign workers get paid middle-rung US salaries and are thus competing against middle-rung US workers.

Which, honestl

They are not, repeat *not* paid the same. They are paid on average 30% less for H1B and 50% less for L1. The H1Bs are paid less (semi-legally) due to age discrimination (laying off workers over age 40 and replacing them with younger, less talented H1Bs, because there is NOT "a prevailing wage" but four of them, from "entry level" to "fully competent". So all the company has to do is replace a "fully competent" American with an "entry level" H1B and they can pay at the 17th percentile wage instead of the 50th++ percentile they were paying.

Please do some research before spouting off. If you don't know where to start to find actual information, then start here: http://www.flcdatacenter.com/skill.aspx

Oh yeah? The feds say:

"The prevailing wage must be at, or above the federal or state or local minimum wage, whichever is higher. The federal minimum wage is $6.55/hr effective July 24, 2008."

Computer Programmers can be hired at $6.55/hr or the state wage if it is higher under the H1B Visa program. As long as it is minimum wage or higher it is 100% legal to under pay computer programmers.

I know many Thai H1B Visa workers who program C++, C#, Java, Visual BASIC for minimum wage and work a second job at a restaurant in my area. The chef or waiter job, pays them more than their programming job based on tips they get.

My wife is half Thai and I know a lot of Thai people and I've been to Thailand a few times and talked with them.

Actually, the difference in wage averages between H1-B and normal workers is very small and can normally be attributed to the fact that H1-Bs are normally not needed for more experienced employees (since they eventually get a greencard).

All the data on H1-Bs and average wages is public.
http://www.flcdatacenter.com/download.aspx
http://www.bls.gov/OES/

Hey, what's the average wage of an H1-B programmer in San Jose, CA?

http://www.flcdatacenter.com/OesQuickResults.aspx? code=15-1021&area=41940&year=8&source=1

What did you say the average wage of a computer programmer in the US is?

http://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes151021.htm

So, the average computer programmer in the US would have to be level 1 by a large margin for the H1-B worker to be making less on average.

Actually, the difference in wage averages between H1-B and normal workers is very small and can normally be attributed to the fact that H1-Bs are normally not needed for more experienced employees (since they eventually get a greencard).

All the data on H1-Bs and average wages is public.
http://www.flcdatacenter.com/download.aspx
http://www.bls.gov/OES/

Hey, what's the average wage of an H1-B programmer in San Jose, CA?

http://www.flcdatacenter.com/OesQuickResults.aspx? code=15-1021&area=41940&year=8&source=1

What did you say the average wage of a computer programmer in the US is?

http://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes151021.htm

So, the average computer programmer in the US would have to be level 1 by a large margin for the H1-B worker to be making less on average.

They already are available online here

http://www.flcdatacenter.com/CaseH1B.aspx

Out of curiosity I checked the DoL site for prevailing wages. http://www.flcdatacenter.com/
They let you specify state, location, and job type. Here is Silicon Valley computer programmer (seems a little off to me):

Area Title: SAN JOSE-SUNNYVALE-SANTA CLARA, CA
OES/SOC Code: 15-1022
OES/SOC Title: Computer Programmers, Non R&D
Level 1 Wage: $21.84 hour - $45,427 year
Level 2 Wage: $26.89 hour - $55,931 year
Level 3 Wage: $31.94 hour - $66,435 year
Level 4 Wage: $36.99 hour - $76,939 year
GeoLevel: 2

Broder is a hack. Gates' statements can be easily fact checked. When an employer brings in an H1B they have to file with the Dept. of Labor and indicate they made a good faith effort to recruit an American. They also have to report the salary being offered. I deal with this frequently at work (as critic not HR douche) and invariably the salaries are ridiculous. A quick glance at the database shows that Microsoft is not nearly as bad an abuser of the system as some (I've seen sub 40k for experienced software developers), but it doesn't average to 100k. Facts are our friends: http://www.flcdatacenter.com/CaseH1B.aspx

I work in immigration law (IANAL). The HUGE problem with this study is that it does not take into account responsibility & experience, while H-1B wage calculations do.

The OES lists four levels for every occupation imaginable (fence erector for example). The levels are based on the amount of responsibility you have in the job and the requirements of the position in terms of specific skills, experience and education. Thus are pretty strongly, if indirectly, correlated to experience. The wages also vary greatly across the experience levels. For example A level 1 "Computer Programmer" in San Diego makes $48,610 a year, while a level 4 job with the same title earns you $80,434 a year.

Now to me this means H-1b hires are generally more entry-level than the average worker (duh!). That's not saying that there probably isn't a fair bit of fraud and misrepresentation of the level of a position, especially since the employer sets the level themselves and then documents the requirements, but it's not happening on an industry-wide level as the article would have you believe.

While it is true that some companies out there are exploiting H1B for cheap labor, but not all companies do that. Most of them pay the H1B employees with the prevailing wage, and some of them even pay the H1B employees much higher than the prevailing wage.

I would suggest if you don't believe me to check this website from DOL that shows which company hired H1B, for what position, and for how much at this http://www.flcdatacenter.com/download/H1B_efile_FY 05.zip for Access file or http://www.flcdatacenter.com/download/H1B_efile_FY 05_text.zip for TXT file.

While it is true that some companies out there are exploiting H1B for cheap labor, but not all companies do that. Most of them pay the H1B employees with the prevailing wage, and some of them even pay the H1B employees much higher than the prevailing wage.

I would suggest if you don't believe me to check this website from DOL that shows which company hired H1B, for what position, and for how much at this http://www.flcdatacenter.com/download/H1B_efile_FY 05.zip for Access file or http://www.flcdatacenter.com/download/H1B_efile_FY 05_text.zip for TXT file.

I did look at the Labor site and at the prevailing wages info on the same site. It would seem that US$38,000 does fall within the prevailing rate for Computer Programmer I between San Francisco Co. (US$41,850) and Choctaw County Mississippi (US$26,728). And so I have decided for myself that yes they are being paid fairly. The only ones trying to fool the government are those who push for artificial price supports or extraordinary restrictions to thwart competition.

The actual regulation says that the H1B worker must be paid at least 95% of the prevailing wage. The company can provide any prevailing wage information....even their own data.

If you think H-1B visa workers being underpaid is an urban legend, peruse the LCA database at your leisure. Look at some of the huge Indian bodyshops (they are the worst offenders at misusing US visa regulations), and decide for yourself if they are underpaying their workers ($38K for a programmer?)

The reason the cap was hit by the first day is these bodyshop hoarde the visas, which flaunts the spirit of the visa regulations. The idea behind the H1B visas were to give employers access to specialized workers, not to allow foreign companies the ability to import their own workers while putting our domestic technical workers out to pasture.

Oh yeah, some Congressmen are trying to attach legislation to the Omnibus spending bill that would effectively double the H1B visa cap. Read more about that at Techsunite

As anyone who has looked into this issue can tell you, there is not in most cases a one-to-one correlation between an American losing their job, and the job going offshore.

For instance, Microsoft is shutting down a major facility in the US. They are also hiring in India. Will the Microsoft jobs lost in the US be counted as jobs lost to outsourcing? Probably not. That is why the new buzz words are "global sourcing" and "insourcing".

Also, how many jobs are being lost to "American" companys like Cognizant, who do not hire permanant US residents or citizens to work for them, only people on H-1B visas? 30% of Cognizant's 9K headcount work in the US (per the June 7th issue of Newsweek), and according to the Dept of Labor's LCA database the company has 2719 immigrants here on H1-B visas (you do the math).

This issue is not simply them bad us good. American IT workers are getting shut out of the IT labor market, even in our own country. This is not good for anyone. We are wasting our own intellectual capital, which we should be sharing with other countries so IT can be used to bridge cultural and economic divides. People should not have to pretend to be from another country as part of their job requirement. People should not be brought here on temporary visas and be paid less and worked harder than the Americans that work in the next cubicle.

This black and white thinking about this issue is pitting the workers on both sides against each other. The only people who win in that situation are the big guys making millions and millions of dollars to come up with these schemes. We (all IT workers worldwide) created these technologies, and historically we have openly shared and taught everyone so that the technology would thrive. That cooperative spirit needs to come through when thinking about this issue.

www.displacedtechies.com

There were provisions written into the H1B visas that were supposed to assure that the immigrants were being paid at least the local prevailing wage. (Many times immigrants are paid well under the prevailing wage rate) The visas have a time limit of 3 years which is only supposed to be renewed once. (They were never created as a stepping stone to obtain permanent residency)

The visas were created because Congress was convinced by the IT industry' powerful lobbyist (the ITAA) that there was a shortage of IT workers. That lobby fought hard to get Congress to leave the visa cap at the inflated 165K, saying it would hurt trade if the US did not allow the free movement of professionals into the US. Thankfully, Congress allowed a sunset provision to take effect and the H1B visa cap fell to the original number of 65K.

These visas were seen as a way to supplement the US work force with people from other countries who have specialized skills. Sys admin-ing should not be considered a specialized skill! Writing in perl or C is not a specialized skill. Entry level programming is not a specialized skill. But you can look at the LCA database to see what sort of jobs are being given to H1B visa holders

Go to http://www.flcdatacenter.com/casesearch.asp

Look up any big US company, and see what sort of jobs are being given to foreigners in the US. In my state, in 2002 there were 8,849 LCAs (Labor Condition Agreements) approved that brought in 16, 384 immigrants, mostly to do IT work. My state (Massachusetts) has been one of the hardest hit as far as unemployment numbers. The pool for unemployment payments is about empty. There has been a huge decline in tax revenue which has led to layoffs of teachers, doctors, and firemen. Allowing companies unchecked access to cheap labor while the US labor force languishes on unemployment is causing huge social issues, it is only a matter of time before people start connecting the real reasons for the state budget deficits.

Who is bringing in these immigrants, and for what jobs? Data Conversion Corporation is one company that receives tons of H1B approvals (they are now owned by Patni). They brought in hundreds of "Programmer I" visa holders, and paid them $34K a year! This is no where near what any entry level programmer in New England makes, it is barely enough to live on here. That totally breaks the spirit, if not the letter of the H-1B law. That is where I have the beef. There are over a million techies out of work in this country. We have over a million foreign techies working in the US on temporary visas. That is just wrong. If you want to know why you send out hundreds of resumes for positions for which you are well-qualified, never to get even a phone interview, go search that website.

To answer your question, we cannot compete on price. Let's be honest though, there are two issues here. We can't compete for jobs in India or the US. So smuggly telling us how great the talent is in India is, and how cheap you are, is a silly argument. What happens to you when trade really opens up in China? In Russia? They are way cheaper than techies from India. And did you miss my comment that most techies realize you have to constantly train yourself? There is no more training to do!

All of us on both sides are being manipulated by that price issue. I personally feel that innovation is going to remain at a standstill until workers on both sides of this issue understand each other and demand better conditions. We should be working together to solve this issue, so you guys can get to the business of building up an IT infrastructure and provide clean water and food to everyone, and we can get back to spreadin