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Don't complain if you don't contribute.
Thanks.

If you go to the latest Gnome summary, it mentions a site that has precompiled RPMs of up-to-date Gnome packages for RH6.0. Apparently the latest stuff fixes a lot of bugs, so you might want to check it out.

-Doug

ZDNET in commenting on GUIs for Linux 2.2 amusingly introduces us to the "Full-Moon Effect" whereby "a graphical operating environment sprouts the fur and fangs of a command-line window whenever unusual conditions arise." As the GNOME graphical environment and KDE mature, the hairy spectacle will become a rarity. See here for the full article.

Posted by tha_skunk:

Yeah I know it's sorta long and, but I really think this is even more interesting for /.!
It's a mail on the gnome mailing list about
Free Documentation ( free as Free Software not beer :-) ).

Here's the link so check it out. It's really worth it.

click it


Free Documentation anyone?????

where Miguel essentially said he thought E was a piece of sh*t

Actually, your description of the article seems fairly familiar, altough I am quite sure it was not Miguel behind the sentence.

Now that I think about it, it was an article titled "The Mad Hatters" by some US newspaper. I guess you'll find the link from GNOME.org's news archives.

(Checking for it, it might be that Frederico could've been interpreted to have said that in the interview, which actually wasn't about GNOME but rather the RHAD labs).

--

--

Forget all the hype about GNOME being window manager neutral. It requires Enlightenment to operate fully.

This is simply not true. GNOME does not require Enlightenment. (Caveat: the RPMs released by Red Hat do have a dependancy on Enlightenment as an RPM -- but per Dr. Mike himself, this was a packaging simplification, and you don't actually need to run E.)

I suppose it's possible that Enlightenment implements more of the GNOME WM specification than WindowMaker or any other WM -- Raster states that as one of his goals with E. So? WindowMaker current versions claim GNOME compliance, and I haven't heard that this was broken, and lots of people seem to use the GNOME+WindowMaker commbination. I've tried it myself, went back to Enlightenment, may give WindowMaker another try someday.

Enlightenment is officially part of GNOME now.

Funny, there's been no notice to that effect on the GNOME web site, the Enlightenment web site, or the gnome-announce list.

Despite the fact that WindowMaker is gnome-compliant, GNOME still pops up with messages suggesting you run Enlightenment instead.

Never saw them while I was trying GNOME+WindowMaker. Are you sure you were using a recent enough version of WindowMaker? The GNOME-compliance didn't happen until at least 0.50.0+ -- the version of WindowMaker that came with Red Hat 5.2 (0.20) hadn't implemented GNOME-compliance, and you will get GNOME hinting that you should use a GNOME-compliant WM if you try that combo.

And if you are using a recent version, that sounds like a bug. Do the right thing. Report it. It might even get fixed that way.

Forget all the hype about GNOME being window manager neutral. It requires Enlightenment to operate fully.

This is simply not true. GNOME does not require Enlightenment. (Caveat: the RPMs released by Red Hat do have a dependancy on Enlightenment as an RPM -- but per Dr. Mike himself, this was a packaging simplification, and you don't actually need to run E.)

I suppose it's possible that Enlightenment implements more of the GNOME WM specification than WindowMaker or any other WM -- Raster states that as one of his goals with E. So? WindowMaker current versions claim GNOME compliance, and I haven't heard that this was broken, and lots of people seem to use the GNOME+WindowMaker commbination. I've tried it myself, went back to Enlightenment, may give WindowMaker another try someday.

Enlightenment is officially part of GNOME now.

Funny, there's been no notice to that effect on the GNOME web site, the Enlightenment web site, or the gnome-announce list.

Despite the fact that WindowMaker is gnome-compliant, GNOME still pops up with messages suggesting you run Enlightenment instead.

Never saw them while I was trying GNOME+WindowMaker. Are you sure you were using a recent enough version of WindowMaker? The GNOME-compliance didn't happen until at least 0.50.0+ -- the version of WindowMaker that came with Red Hat 5.2 (0.20) hadn't implemented GNOME-compliance, and you will get GNOME hinting that you should use a GNOME-compliant WM if you try that combo.

And if you are using a recent version, that sounds like a bug. Do the right thing. Report it. It might even get fixed that way.

--

I've had a host of annoying small problems with RH 6.0. No the least of which has been an unstable X-server. I'd never had X crash before. Window manager or application, sure.. but not the server. it's too bad. I like the Gnome/KDE integration.

On a side note: has anyone else had problems with gtop after recent upgrades?
(on 5.2 systems not just 6.0) I can't trace it to any one thing, but it's stopped working for me. it executes, but just sits there, display's no window, drops no errors. Recompilations, stack traces, nothing is fixing it, or showing me why! *whine*

Don't complain about work that other people do, if you don't want to do what it takes to make GNOME work better.

You seem to think version numbering is the Truth, and that 1.0 versions always are BugFree(tm).

(I wanted someone to comment on KOffice before I said anything)

On the Gnome side of things, progress is being made. Bonobo (the CORBA-ized component model) is nearing an initial (developer) release.

A Guppi Bonobo component is being added to Gnumeric (which is looking nice these days) to enable charts. This might also make it into Genius.

Go is being Bonobo-ized also, and (I hear) is pretty usable.

And work is being done on a nice mailer too.

gdk_imlib.so.1

This library comes from Raster's Imlib. The latest version appears to be imlib-1.9.4.t ar.gz

SegFault

"Those who desire to give up Freedom in order to gain Security, will
not have, nor do they deserve, either one." - Thomas Jefferson

1.0.8 is much better than 1.0.4. I've been struggling with GNOME compiles since the original 1.0, and my experience is that the rough spots are gone, and it's really 1.0 caliber now.

Make sure you upgrade gnome-libs to 1.0.8 and mc to 4.5.30.

Kudos to RHAD labs for getting the RPMs out so fast. Since I've already got everything I want compiled now with egcs, I won't be grabbing the RPMs, but since I'm one of the folks who've been complaining on the GNOME lists about the lack of RPM support, it's great to see these RPMs go up so fast now that Miguel and team believe they have GNOME 1.0 stabilized.

As for WindowMaker -- GNOME and WindowMaker are supposed to play nice together. I've done it myself, although I haven't tried swithing window managers from the control center. Make sure you have the latest GNOME-enabled WindowMaker (0.51.2, IIRC). Also, you'd do everyone a favor by reporting this to the GNOME bug list. As a workaround, try putting

in your .xinitrc, then starting X. GNOME should then Do The Right Thing via session management from now on (and you can replace those lines in .xinitrc with gnome-session instead).

The GNOME people are producing the tarballs. Red Hat Software is building RPMS for their distribution. Likewise, Debian volunteers are building debs for their distribution.

Check out the entry in the GNOME FAQ.

1. Mozilla's Clue stick
   Gnome's Clue Stick
   egcs Clue Stick

it was my impression that fvwm, kde, enlightenment etc all do the same thing as GNOME (they all are xwindows managers right?)

Wrong. "fvwm" and Enlightenment are window managers; KDE and Gnome are collections of a bunch of pieces of software, including:

• a window manager (KDE has "kwm"; Gnome may not have an official window manager, but, as I remember, Enlightenment was packaged with the RPMs I saw);
• a file manager;
• libraries that add stuff over and above the raw window system toolkit;
• GUI applications to let you configure various things;
• various other things.

People can argue about whether that stuff is useful, but it's difficult to argue that it's not there....

See the What is KDE? document and the GNOME User's Guide for more details.

I personally don't need all that extra stuff so I just use WindowMaker. So I don't have any files on my desktop, because I don't have that functionality (don't miss it, reminds me too much of winbloze and Macintosh, mac isn't quite as bad, but I still won't use one as my personal computer).

This whole thing is about choice. You choose your GUI based on what you need. Check out the feature listings, go read up on a couple of these proggies, gnome stuff is at www.gnome.org and KDE is based at www.kde.org. I personally use WindowMaker, refered to earlier as "GNUstep." They all have their advantages, they all are extremely configurable, check out themes.org, and pay special attention to OctoberX's stuff (he's one of /.'s).

So I guess what all the hubbub is about, is that we pick what our GUI looks like and how it reacts to our commands. It is a huge matter of personal needs and preferences. There isn't anything forced on us. SuSE comes configured to run KDE, but I changed when I decided I didn't like it. Like the distro wars, one's choice of GUI can get to be pretty personal and some users tend to get pretty emotional about their particular window manager.

ph43drus

Seriously. It takes some time and effort (hint: read the directions), but it's more enjoyable than endlessly sorting out RPM conflicts. My build started from a modified RH 5.2 system. Used egcs 1.1.1 (building this also requires following the suggested build directions).

Do it for your country. Do it for your cat. Ju Transfer interrupted!

...as does GNOME.

The press release says so at least. Except for SCO; it might, might not.

There are not that many bug reports on the Gnome bugs page. Go to bugs.gnome.org and look around. I generally expect to at least hear "you're an idiot, I'm closing this bug".

What do you mean about providing a machine to run my PyGtk program on? It's very simple..just pops up a box asking for the package name, severity level, and bug information. Should I be letting people run it as an X client off my machine? I don't get your comment at all.

(btw: I was complaining about the lack of reading as a comparison to Debian's BTS, where I usually get at least an answer within a few days. They get _many_ more bugs.

Daniel

Take a look at the bugs
I, for one, hope the list is just out of date and these bugs have been fixed...
Heaven forbid another desktop environment that actually ships a release with known bugs!

The mailing lists are archived here. Have fun!

-laMeDuck

CVS is a multi-developer versioning system (http://cvs.gnome.org). His joke was about how hard it is to compile the latest CVS version (sometimes). They usually call it "CVS tree", because its shaped similar to one. Its usually hard to compile because its whats being worked on currently (i.e. its newer than any tar/rpm). It can have numerous bugs and other nasties. The joke still doesn't make sense.. I always thought you stayed out of trees when raking.

James Henstridge (one of the GNOME hackers)

Someone aske d about this on the GNOME mailing lists a while ago.

I'd just like to say AMEN! For those that's haven't seen the HOW-TO check it out here. I especially like that the instructions are designed with RedHat 5.2 and 5.0 in mind only. Oh yeah let me save you the time of counting the required packages... 39 and if you want the optional stuff 54, ooofa seems like a whole lotta work to me. Hmmmm, maybe this is the plan package RedHat 6 with GNOME fully functional out of the box then make it so hard to get it to work on anything else that people will go out and buy the latest RedHat distribution... yet another conspiracy ;)

The Gnome Project is at http://www.gnome.org/. It relies only on LGPL and GPL code, and not on proprietary libraries like QT.

Arrival? 1.0 should ship with RedHat 6, which will probably be out midyear. Can't say for certain, though, since I run Debian and don't keep up much on RedHat development.

To help those newbies:

www.linux.org

sunsite.unc.edu/mdw

www.stardivision.com

www.redhat.com

www.kde.org

www.gnome.org

www.cheapbytes.com

www.freshmeat.net

www.xnet.com/~blatura/linapps.shtml

OK So I'm somewhat biased... :)

"Linux sucks. But Linux sucks less." - JWZ

Well, there is a document on GNOME window manager compliance here. I must admit that I haven't really read it. :-) I would guess that compliance consists of things like: The window manager shouldn't place icons on top of or behind the panel, & clicks on the root window should be passed to Gnome. This may be completely wrong. Feel free to correct me. :-)

Try here.

Daniel (cookie crumbled!)