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Obamacars

Bloodhounds aren't exactly known for their speed.

Neither is Greyhound.

I've even ridden these NYC-Montreal through the notorious Adirondack Northway, but haven't felt any need to use the seat belts. The cupholder, power outlets and WiFi, however...

--PCJ

For now, I am going Greyhound...

I'm going on a trip to Houston, Texas next year and looked into a few ways to get there. Flying would be $260 and 5 hours, Amtrak would be $440 and 39 hours and Greyhound would be $200 and 42 hours. If I went Greyhound (or Amtrak) I would have to try and sleep on the bus/train and have an entire carry on bag filled with books to keep me occupied for the trip, but I found something very disturbing in the first paragraph Greyhound's Traveling by Bus page that has made me decide to never use Greyhound.

No reservations are necessary when you travel with Greyhound. If you know the departure schedule, simply arrive at the terminal at least an hour before departure to purchase your ticket. Boarding generally begins 15 to 30 minutes before departure. Seating is on a first-come, first- served basis. Advance purchase tickets do not guarantee a seat.

Now it would completely ruin my trip if I park at the bus station find out my bus is full and I have to wait until tomorrow to catch the next bus. I would drive back to my house, call the hotel and hope I don't have to pay for the first nights stay (which I won't be there for) and go to sleep in my own bed.

But what if that happened at one of my connections?

Maybe I'll get the whole way to Atlanta to find that my next bus is full and I have to either spend the night in the terminal or walk the streets of Atlanta at midnight with my luggage to find a hotel to stay at and hope tomorrows bus will have a seat for me.

For now, I'm still flying...

It's an economies of scale thing. If you had decent capacity on the train things may be different, but the travel time really kills it, so not enough people are willing to ride it to make it worthwhile.

I doubt that's why trains cost as much as planes, because of low ridership. People still use bus lines like Greyhound, and they're even slower than trains.

I rode a train once, ages ago. Well back in the '70s. An uncle worked for a railroad so he got me a ticket from Detroit, MI where I was visiting to Springfield, MA where I lived. I had wanted to ride one again, about 12 years ago I moved from Florida to Minnesota, but I wanted to take my truck. However the Autotrain only runs between Lorton, VA, near Washington DC and Sanford, FL, outside of Orlando. I'd love to be able to drive my car on the train and go wherever now.

Falcon

Take a bus: http://www.greyhound.com/

http://www.greyhound.com/

The problem with trying to actually run the numbers is that it's difficult to quantify the fuel consumption of a railroad locomotive. Unlike a plane, you can configure a train in a variety of ways, and what's really of note is the fuel consumption per passenger-mile.

The U.S. government used to compile such statistics, but they ceased doing it in 1963. The last year such numbers were available, trains averaged approximately 41 passenger-miles per gallon of diesel, but this represents a national average, including many trains that may have been underutilized (and which really shouldn't have been operated but were for political reasons). What's interesting is that in 1945, when they were really using the equipment at maximum capacity, the economy more than doubled to 83 passenger-miles per gallon (of diesel equivalent).

I suspect that it's a vast lowball compared to modern trains, given the level of diesel technology in 1963. To put that in perpective, a modern Greyhound bus is almost twice that, and a bus is using an internal-combustion engine, on a relatively high-friction surface, and its drag profile is far less attractive than a train (cross section vs volume). So I suspect that a modern diesel-electric is significantly more efficient.

Looking at modern high-speed, inter-city trains, there's a little more data available. Wikipedia has a nice compilation. The TGV in particular, when fully loaded, gets around 506 passenger-miles per gallon diesel equivalent. The only modern diesel listed is a DMU-based (self-propelled cars) train with double-deck cars, and fully loaded they claim 328 pmile/gal.

To compare to aircraft, Boeing claims as high as 162 pmiles/gal (of Jet-A, I think), depending on how full the aircraft is, others get numbers that range down around 100, with occasional environmentalist estimates in the 30s. The national average is allegedly around 50 according to Wikipedia (same page as earlier).

FYI, the bulk of SS payments go to middle class people, not to poor people "freezing in the streets". And if you know someone freezing in the steets because of poverty, you should at least have the decency to buy them a one-way bus ticket (senior discount!) to Florida (currently 64F in Miami).

You canif you're willing to take 1.5 times as long as Greyhound. And that's the scheduled time; Amtrak has not once ever been on time anywhere but Boston-New York-Washington (and even there, it's pretty unlikely).

For tomorrow's fares, Boston to NYC is $64 one way by Train, $123 by Air (cheapest American Airlines), both for Tomorrow at 9AM. So, Train still wins.

And if you need a subsidy example, it's called the SouthEastern Pennsylvania Transit Authority (SEPTA). They're really happy, because they've managed to reduce their 2004 operating deficit "from $54 million to a still-formidable $26 million" (link) (last year's budget was $875 million + a $55 million deficit).

Who pays for all of this? We do... One way or another, the entire nation is paying for this inefficient mess. From this article, the counties pay for 8%, states at 38%. Another report states that even though federal subsidies have dropped in the last 5 years, money is still indirectly funnelled from Federal to State to SEPTA ($800 mil given to PA from the fed last year, $40 mil is directly accountable to going to SEPTA), not counting the $2 billion that the Federal gov has already invested in rail & car refurbishments. Oh, and they've only been sucking our money since 1963... not quite 60 years, but pigging out the same.

Now, imagine if we privatized the deal, and actually forced them to make money on their own? Because by Bus (the 3rd method of mass transit, privatized), I can go from Boston to NY City tomorrow at 9AM for $30. At 215 miles at 20 mpg & $1.75/gal for gas, its $18 by car, the ultimate privatized driving method, and I guess thats why people like to drive themselves.

Sounds like to win any money you have to travel, so keep that in mind when you sign up.

But like you said, they're paying for the transportation to Mountain View, plus hotel accomodations... I think I can deal with the other expenses.

I don't know enough about what Canada has to offer, so this is limited to the U.S.

When folks around here say they're "going backpacking" they usually mean they'll be hiking in the wildnerness with just what they can carry on their back. Such trips rarely include visits to bookstores, musea, and other geek centers. Such trips are best in mountainous areas -- I can't imagine backpacking in North Dakota, for instance -- and can be done on a pretty low daily budget (but make sure you invest in high quality boots, tents, etc.). Some folks have mentioned the Appalachian Trail, which spans from Vermont to Georgia. On the other side of the country are lots of swell backpacking areas from the Rocky Mountains west. The national parks in Utah and Arizona (Canyonlands, Staircase, Zion, Grand Canyon, etc.) are especially popular for such trips, though if you've spent much time in the outback you may be sick of such a climate (though the terrain here is more impressive). Almost any national park or national forest is a good backpacking experience, and entrance fees (especially if you get a year-long pass) are astonishingly cheap.

Unfortunately, you'll be arriving at the tail end of good backpacking season. Beginning in late September you can't trust in a lack of snow anywhere inland in the northern two thirds of the country, though places like southern Arizona are quite enjoyable. Unless you're staying until late next spring, you should hit any outdoor areas in the north first and work your way south.

Unfortunatey, U.S. public transportaion leaves much to be desired. There's nothing like a Eurail pass, and Amtrak stops mostly in larger cities, which is sad, because trains played such a large part in building America. Greyhound has excellent coverage and fairly reasonable rates, but if you're going to a lot of places, your pocketbook could take a big hit. Finally, hitchhiking across the country is probably no longer a viable plan, but it may be invaluable in a pinch. Hitchhikers are, generally, assumed to be dangerous until proven otherwise. On the plus side, most cities have a bus system decent enough for tourists to enjoy the town.

Unless you have access to a car, my advice is to pick a handfull of (relatively small) areas you want to visit and then figure out what all the great things to do there are.

Some geeky things in my neck of the woods (Boulder, Colorado): National Institute of Standards and Technology (home of the most accurate clock in this hemisphere) is right next to a branch of National Oceanographic and Atmospheric Association and a beautiful two-hour mountain hike away from the National Center for Atmospheric Research. They've all got free tours and such, though I haven't taken one since security got tightened after 9/11/01. About 10 miles south of town is the National Renewable Energy Laboratory and more beautiful mountain hike areas. 30 miles or so to the north west is Rocky Mountain National Park, which gets pretty cold in September and later. Denver, CO has Forney Museum of Tranportation and also the nation's only major airport built in the last 20 years, so it's full of neat engineering bits.

Your post sounds quite ambitious, and there's no way you can really experience all of what's neat in America in even a year, so find some of it and enjoy the hell out of that! Cheerio!

Heaven help you if while using this service you are looking to catch a bus to visit some relatives. You mistakenly type www.greyhond.com (POPUP WARNING)....instead of www.greyhound.com.

My, what your friend or loved one will think of you...

Amtrak
Greyhound
Hertz

You can't travel without being tracked.

Just ride the dog.

Driver Licensing vs. the Right to Travel

It is not becaue you painted yourself in a corner (by virtually eliminating public transportation) that you suddenly have the "right" to use a car!!!! Expect to have that "right" pulled from you if you don't exercise it responsibly!!!