Slashdot Mirror

They are all Internet2 peers. Check the Internet2 peering list at http://www.internet2.edu/abilene/html/peernetworks .html

I prob should have mentioned that OC192 is essentially 10Gbps in my earlier post. This means that Internet2 will be equiv (in terms of backbone speed) to GEANT in the near term. (You can read the PR about the Internet2 upgrade if you are interested.

Using a common layer of software tools, ISPs & content providers will be able to know who you are, what you're doing, and how much you owe for it. Think of the merger of a high-speed real-time multimedia Internet with your phone service (which is considered a necessary utility and which bills you differently for local access; local, interstate, and international long distance; and extra features like voice mail).

It's just a matter of time before you can get Internet Video Phone and Downloadable Streaming Pay-Per-View -- and pay Qwest-AOL-TimeWarner handsomely for the priveledge.

There is a great deal of activity here in the US w.r.t. the transfer of large amounts of data via advanced networks. Internet2 is working with the International Physics community from the US side. The HENP Networking Working Group (High Energy and Nuclear Physics). Additionally, there is work with with the National Earthquake Engineering Simulation Grid. NEES is going to be collecting similar amounts of information from earthquake simulation experiments.

Some of the most interesting work is being done by those involved with the End to End Performance Initiative. These folks are trying to figure out what it takes to support the data transfer rates that will soon be necessary.

It continues to amaze me that it is now possible to use a network to transfer data to a disk/array faster than the disk/array can process it. I believe that many have pointed out that hardware (in terms of Moore's law and data acquisition/processing) has is not keeping up with the rate of data creation. But that is prob a bit obvious to most of us.

There is a great deal of activity here in the US w.r.t. the transfer of large amounts of data via advanced networks. Internet2 is working with the International Physics community from the US side. The HENP Networking Working Group (High Energy and Nuclear Physics). Additionally, there is work with with the National Earthquake Engineering Simulation Grid. NEES is going to be collecting similar amounts of information from earthquake simulation experiments.

Some of the most interesting work is being done by those involved with the End to End Performance Initiative. These folks are trying to figure out what it takes to support the data transfer rates that will soon be necessary.

It continues to amaze me that it is now possible to use a network to transfer data to a disk/array faster than the disk/array can process it. I believe that many have pointed out that hardware (in terms of Moore's law and data acquisition/processing) has is not keeping up with the rate of data creation. But that is prob a bit obvious to most of us.

The sourceforge project is in 'planning' stages. You can get real drivers here (readme)

The sourceforge project is in 'planning' stages. You can get real drivers here (readme)

Does anyone remember the original Power Glove for the NES? I'd guess you would.

Now, does anyone know what happened to it? Most people don't. But Mattel got sued for patent violation. Turns out they used the same technology in their $75 PowerGlove that the makers of the $10,000 DataGlove owned.

A lot of people have been wiring these things up for use with General PCs for regular use

There's a sourceforge project to write some Linux drivers, but they are in the 'planning' phase. There are some other drivers here (readme). Scroll down until you get to 'powerglove.tgz'

Does anyone remember the original Power Glove for the NES? I'd guess you would.

Now, does anyone know what happened to it? Most people don't. But Mattel got sued for patent violation. Turns out they used the same technology in their $75 PowerGlove that the makers of the $10,000 DataGlove owned.

A lot of people have been wiring these things up for use with General PCs for regular use

There's a sourceforge project to write some Linux drivers, but they are in the 'planning' phase. There are some other drivers here (readme). Scroll down until you get to 'powerglove.tgz'

CANARIE is an Internet2 peer:

http://www.internet2.edu/international/html/partne rs.html

Internet2 is a non-profit organization. You can't invest in it. However, this doesn't mean it doesn't have industry partners.

[warning: I am participating in GRID activities and research with my current job. These opinions are my own.]

It is important to note that the GRID currently is not aiming to satisfy a "business case". Specifically, it is a research tool that is designed to aid scientists address problems that can not (easily) be solved using existing solutions. There are many good explanations of the GRID around the net, one of them is at the Globus site.

There are a few examples of where the GRID is being used or will soon be used in the research community:

- NEES: National Earthquake Engineering Simulation GRID
- HENP: High Energy Nuclear Physics working group
- Internet2: How the Internet2 infrastructure is being used in the development of various GRID projects.

Now, there are additional reasons as to why businesses might be interested in projects such as the GRID. I come from a FEA background and it would be useful to many organizations to be able to harness multiple systems to complete some of the CPU, data and time intensive tasks that the GRID proposes to address.

Further, the GRID's long term goal is to provide the ability to offer compute cycles and storage in a way that the current electrical power grid does. I am sure we can all imagine personal uses for this sort of power. Creating a viable business end for this is the question that I can not answer (and that you are asking). However, creating this system will help researchers. Once it is available, creating consumer level benefits should not be difficult.

Finally, you mention some of the policy issues, particularly concerning data storage. One of the key parts of the GRID work involves ACLs, distributed directory services, and the like. It is important to note that organizations in GRID projects (and corporations of the future who might use GRID like services) will have the ability to grant/deny access to their systems. There is a great deal of effort currently under way to make sure that the grid is not going to become a general purpose storage system for everyone's generic data. Some of the work on this type of middleware is available at the Internet2 middleware site.

[warning: I am participating in GRID activities and research with my current job. These opinions are my own.]

It is important to note that the GRID currently is not aiming to satisfy a "business case". Specifically, it is a research tool that is designed to aid scientists address problems that can not (easily) be solved using existing solutions. There are many good explanations of the GRID around the net, one of them is at the Globus site.

There are a few examples of where the GRID is being used or will soon be used in the research community:

- NEES: National Earthquake Engineering Simulation GRID
- HENP: High Energy Nuclear Physics working group
- Internet2: How the Internet2 infrastructure is being used in the development of various GRID projects.

Now, there are additional reasons as to why businesses might be interested in projects such as the GRID. I come from a FEA background and it would be useful to many organizations to be able to harness multiple systems to complete some of the CPU, data and time intensive tasks that the GRID proposes to address.

Further, the GRID's long term goal is to provide the ability to offer compute cycles and storage in a way that the current electrical power grid does. I am sure we can all imagine personal uses for this sort of power. Creating a viable business end for this is the question that I can not answer (and that you are asking). However, creating this system will help researchers. Once it is available, creating consumer level benefits should not be difficult.

Finally, you mention some of the policy issues, particularly concerning data storage. One of the key parts of the GRID work involves ACLs, distributed directory services, and the like. It is important to note that organizations in GRID projects (and corporations of the future who might use GRID like services) will have the ability to grant/deny access to their systems. There is a great deal of effort currently under way to make sure that the grid is not going to become a general purpose storage system for everyone's generic data. Some of the work on this type of middleware is available at the Internet2 middleware site.

Okay I assume most of you here either a) have a KVM and either like or hate it, or b) don't have a KVM but might consider buying one but don't know which to buy. I'm going to tell you what you should look for. And by the way, Tom's guide (as usual) is dreadfully incomplete.

Some switches are mechanical, and others are electronic. Most electronic ones are better because they feature some kind of "emulation", meaning that when you switch off one machien to another, the machine you switched FROM still thinks the mouse and keyboard are connected when the OS polls the ports. On mechanical KVMs, they won't see anything and will sometimes b0rk.

However, not all emulating electronic KVMs are created equal. Belkin, Aten, Linkysys... they all have the same fundamental flaw: they have only one microprocessor trying to handle the emulation requirements of all the ports on the KVM.

One of the best switches you can possibly buy is a Raritan. They have a dedicated microprocessor for each port.

I have tried using a Belkin Omnicube and an Aten Masterview with a very simple setup: one Windows XP box, and one FreeBSD or Linux box. With both switches, XP worked fine but with FreeBSD, you get (at best) errors from the kernel about how the mouse is out of sync (psmintr....). With Linux, I could only get it to work if I used a standard PS/2 Microsoft Intellimouse with the gpm and X driver settings set to "PS/2". If I wanted to use "IMPS/2", I had to kill and restart GPM every time I switched back to Linux. And neither Linux nor FreeBSD would even RECOGNIZE my Microsoft Optical Intellimouse with the USB-to-PS/2 converter on the end... although I reiterate that XP worked just fine.

Raritans, on the other hand, work flawlessly in any situation. They JUST WORK. I'm currently waiting for my new Raritan to arrive in the mail. They're slightly more expensive, but totally worth the money. And for those of you who are sysadmins for larger-scale projects, consider Raritans for those racks because they make rack-mountable KVMs with up to 12 ports... we used them at Internet2 and they work perfectly.

peace brothas.

Soon, the internet will be commercialized. But I don't care, my school is on Internet2. No AOL, no porn, no pop-up ads and I can go back to using lynx.

I suppose you're being a smartass but there already is one: Internet2? Though, if you're not at a university of government research site connected to it you're SOL right now. I bet there's hardly any spam and porn flowing across those nice fat pipes. *sigh* :-)

Tele-immersion enables users at geographically distributed sites to collaborate in real time in a shared, simulated, hybrid environment as if they were in the same physical room.

This is so much better then a 70,000$ remote projector tv.

There's also whole Tele-Immersion Initiative, as well as smaller things like audio teleportation and Virtual Halloween.

There's also whole Tele-Immersion Initiative, as well as smaller things like audio teleportation and Virtual Halloween.

Speech recognition, transcipting, and subtitling of audio-video content helps all of us, particularly the deaf, blind and sportsbar drinkers. Unfortunately speech recognition is not perfect. Good speech recognition could save the CIA a pile on FBIS. Searching text transcripts of a/v files, is only the start.

Internet2, a gigabit network for education and research (see PDF map), has a major future use as an audio-video storage library and distribution network. Video-napster? CMU's Internet2 Informedia Library project researchers are designing visual-video search software for faces, on-screen text, images and shapes. Computers finding on-screen people, text and similar programming... scary.

Check out this presentation with screen shots about Internet2, and its cool tools, uses and experiments. Slide 36 shows Facial Recognition and Optical Character Recognition (OCR) at work. It works so well, it finds text (bottom right) on the U.S. Capital's dome columns... whoops. Slide 37 "Similar Shapes/Content" shows examples of similar content of female news anchors, and soccer / football.

remove the nofreakinspam. to e-mail me.

Speech recognition, transcipting, and subtitling of audio-video content helps all of us, particularly the deaf, blind and sportsbar drinkers. Unfortunately speech recognition is not perfect. Good speech recognition could save the CIA a pile on FBIS. Searching text transcripts of a/v files, is only the start.

Internet2, a gigabit network for education and research (see PDF map), has a major future use as an audio-video storage library and distribution network. Video-napster? CMU's Internet2 Informedia Library project researchers are designing visual-video search software for faces, on-screen text, images and shapes. Computers finding on-screen people, text and similar programming... scary.

Check out this presentation with screen shots about Internet2, and its cool tools, uses and experiments. Slide 36 shows Facial Recognition and Optical Character Recognition (OCR) at work. It works so well, it finds text (bottom right) on the U.S. Capital's dome columns... whoops. Slide 37 "Similar Shapes/Content" shows examples of similar content of female news anchors, and soccer / football.

remove the nofreakinspam. to e-mail me.

Speech recognition, transcipting, and subtitling of audio-video content helps all of us, particularly the deaf, blind and sportsbar drinkers. Unfortunately speech recognition is not perfect. Good speech recognition could save the CIA a pile on FBIS. Searching text transcripts of a/v files, is only the start.

Internet2, a gigabit network for education and research (see PDF map), has a major future use as an audio-video storage library and distribution network. Video-napster? CMU's Internet2 Informedia Library project researchers are designing visual-video search software for faces, on-screen text, images and shapes. Computers finding on-screen people, text and similar programming... scary.

Check out this presentation with screen shots about Internet2, and its cool tools, uses and experiments. Slide 36 shows Facial Recognition and Optical Character Recognition (OCR) at work. It works so well, it finds text (bottom right) on the U.S. Capital's dome columns... whoops. Slide 37 "Similar Shapes/Content" shows examples of similar content of female news anchors, and soccer / football.

remove the nofreakinspam. to e-mail me.

Speech recognition, transcipting, and subtitling of audio-video content helps all of us, particularly the deaf, blind and sportsbar drinkers. Unfortunately speech recognition is not perfect. Good speech recognition could save the CIA a pile on FBIS. Searching text transcripts of a/v files, is only the start.

Internet2, a gigabit network for education and research (see PDF map), has a major future use as an audio-video storage library and distribution network. Video-napster? CMU's Internet2 Informedia Library project researchers are designing visual-video search software for faces, on-screen text, images and shapes. Computers finding on-screen people, text and similar programming... scary.

Check out this presentation with screen shots about Internet2, and its cool tools, uses and experiments. Slide 36 shows Facial Recognition and Optical Character Recognition (OCR) at work. It works so well, it finds text (bottom right) on the U.S. Capital's dome columns... whoops. Slide 37 "Similar Shapes/Content" shows examples of similar content of female news anchors, and soccer / football.

remove the nofreakinspam. to e-mail me.

Speech recognition, transcipting, and subtitling of audio-video content helps all of us, particularly the deaf, blind and sportsbar drinkers. Unfortunately speech recognition is not perfect. Good speech recognition could save the CIA a pile on FBIS. Searching text transcripts of a/v files, is only the start.

Internet2, a gigabit network for education and research (see PDF map), has a major future use as an audio-video storage library and distribution network. Video-napster? CMU's Internet2 Informedia Library project researchers are designing visual-video search software for faces, on-screen text, images and shapes. Computers finding on-screen people, text and similar programming... scary.

Check out this presentation with screen shots about Internet2, and its cool tools, uses and experiments. Slide 36 shows Facial Recognition and Optical Character Recognition (OCR) at work. It works so well, it finds text (bottom right) on the U.S. Capital's dome columns... whoops. Slide 37 "Similar Shapes/Content" shows examples of similar content of female news anchors, and soccer / football.

remove the nofreakinspam. to e-mail me.

Speech recognition, transcipting, and subtitling of audio-video content helps all of us, particularly the deaf, blind and sportsbar drinkers. Unfortunately speech recognition is not perfect. Good speech recognition could save the CIA a pile on FBIS. Searching text transcripts of a/v files, is only the start.

Internet2, a gigabit network for education and research (see PDF map), has a major future use as an audio-video storage library and distribution network. Video-napster? CMU's Internet2 Informedia Library project researchers are designing visual-video search software for faces, on-screen text, images and shapes. Computers finding on-screen people, text and similar programming... scary.

Check out this presentation with screen shots about Internet2, and its cool tools, uses and experiments. Slide 36 shows Facial Recognition and Optical Character Recognition (OCR) at work. It works so well, it finds text (bottom right) on the U.S. Capital's dome columns... whoops. Slide 37 "Similar Shapes/Content" shows examples of similar content of female news anchors, and soccer / football.

remove the nofreakinspam. to e-mail me.

I hope we'll get a clean interface in the best spirit of Google tradition.

See http://www.internet2.edu/ for more information.

Taco, actually we at universities already play quake over Internet2. Traffic between Internet2-enabled sites never touches the commodity Internet, as stated in the post to which I'm replying.

Cisco offers their IPTV, which is commercially available.

There are several H.323 streaming server commercially available as well. This standard is used by many Internet2 video applications.

There are also open source alternatives. The vic vac and rat tools long in use on the old mbone are certainly available in open source : for netbsd and for Linux.(You might want to read this before you get into these.)

If you want to multicast your streaming video, you should contact Multicast Tech.

One of the interesting things that went on at SC2000 was Netchallenge competition with cash prizes.

Its winners have all shown something of interest to the public (disclaimer: our application is one of them, so I am not a neutral party).

Our demo included, we think, the first ever demonstration of interdomain operation of DiffServ-based IP QoS (more on this to come on the QBone web site) as well as an interesting application developed by Computer Music Center folks from Stanford. The application (audio teleportation) allows one to be teleported into a space with different acoustics (with CD-quality sound). During SC2000, two musicians gave a live performance from two different places with their sound being mixed in the air in the acoustics of a marble hall in Stanford.

As does Internet2 - http://www.internet2.edu/

Pablo Nevares, "the freshmaker".

http://www.internet2.edu/html/ tel e-immersion.html Seems to be a lot more informative.

Looks like the author of the article is confused about the difference between networks and applications. Research and Education networks, such as Internet2, are there to facilitate existence of advanced applications, such as various data grids, teleimmersion, LBE bulk data transfers, etc.

Appearence of new applications reinforces the need for advanced networks, not the other way around. In fact, we (Internet2) work with the U.S. counterparts of the described European project

Perhaps a lot of students don't realize this, but all traffic between Internet2 participating Universities goes over Abilene (Internet2 backbone).

More information about Internet2 and its activities can be found at:

• Internet2 main page
• QBone (web site runs Slash)
• Abilene NOC site

Looks like the author of the article is confused about the difference between networks and applications. Research and Education networks, such as Internet2, are there to facilitate existence of advanced applications, such as various data grids, teleimmersion, LBE bulk data transfers, etc.

Appearence of new applications reinforces the need for advanced networks, not the other way around. In fact, we (Internet2) work with the U.S. counterparts of the described European project

Perhaps a lot of students don't realize this, but all traffic between Internet2 participating Universities goes over Abilene (Internet2 backbone).

More information about Internet2 and its activities can be found at:

• Internet2 main page
• QBone (web site runs Slash)
• Abilene NOC site

I am guessing you haven't read up on I2 lately. Internet2 is the next round of major architecture changes that will be applied to the Net (as in the highway we all access today). The I2 changes will just be very high bandwidth and application of that bandwidth.

"The primary goals of Internet2 are to:
- Create a leading edge network capability for the national research community
- Enable revolutionary Internet applications
- Ensure the rapid transfer of new network services and applications to the broader Internet community" internet2.org

I want a new reality -Chaswell

No, but there were looser (read: no) restrictions on who can be on the network. I2 has a rather stringent policy on who can be on and who can't. Please read the FAQ :-).

Create a leading edge network capability for the national research community
Enable revolutionary Internet applications
Ensure the rapid transfer of new network services and applications to the broader Internet community.

The Internet 2 was started around 1997 I believe.

A lot of the big guns out there are busy developing infrastructure that will allow reliable Voice over IP, real-time video conferencing and other delay-sensitive apps to work reliably.

Cisco's Packet magazine had an article on this a while back (it was the cover story on the last issue). I'm sure there are dozens if not hundreds of other articles on this too.

You will see Voice over IP a lot more in the next few years, simply because it's cheaper to implement than traditional, circuit-switched telephony. It's not a bad thing, really, because the telcos are going to have to make it work 100% of the time. That's the #1 concern. People have been getting dialtones all across this continent for 50 years now. It's simply not acceptable that suddenly you only get 9 out of 10 dialtones. It's got to be 100% or it won't fly.

--

• Replace or merge with the phone system
• Replace or merge with the television system
• Fundamentally change the way we rent/buy music and movies
• Invade home applicances, making it easy to keep track of what you need from the store or lookup a recipe at your fridge or check on or update your washing machine from your home office.
• go wireless at high-bandwidth, making video cellular phones a reality
• on-line learning (undergrad, high-school, even elementary) will become more commonplace. Writer's Note - This isn't necessarily a good thing. Going away to college is an excellent experience I think everyone should have.
• virtual operations, online operations by doctors operating robotic instruments and instructing assistants remotely will give patients access to the surgical expertise practiced at the world's elite institutions

• Replace or merge with the phone system
• Replace or merge with the television system
• Fundamentally change the way we rent/buy music and movies
• Invade home applicances, making it easy to keep track of what you need from the store or lookup a recipe at your fridge or check on or update your washing machine from your home office.
• go wireless at high-bandwidth, making video cellular phones a reality
• on-line learning (undergrad, high-school, even elementary) will become more commonplace. Writer's Note - This isn't necessarily a good thing. Going away to college is an excellent experience I think everyone should have.
• virtual operations, online operations by doctors operating robotic instruments and instructing assistants remotely will give patients access to the surgical expertise practiced at the world's elite institutions

• Replace or merge with the phone system
• Replace or merge with the television system
• Fundamentally change the way we rent/buy music and movies
• Invade home applicances, making it easy to keep track of what you need from the store or lookup a recipe at your fridge or check on or update your washing machine from your home office.
• go wireless at high-bandwidth, making video cellular phones a reality
• on-line learning (undergrad, high-school, even elementary) will become more commonplace. Writer's Note - This isn't necessarily a good thing. Going away to college is an excellent experience I think everyone should have.
• virtual operations, online operations by doctors operating robotic instruments and instructing assistants remotely will give patients access to the surgical expertise practiced at the world's elite institutions

See http://www.internet2.edu/dsi/ for a discussion of the NSF-sponsored Internet 2 research project to enable cacheing.

This is going to be a major culture clash, and hopefully will result in some new laws dealing with cacheing & these other issues. On the one hand, everyone from AOL to Google to the NSF (via Internet 2) agree that cacheing is a great way to make content more readily available. On the other hand, clueless corporations want to use the DMCA and other copyright baseball bats to keep utter control over what happens to their stuff.

PS: Sorry for posting this as a top-level comment, but the other discussions on cacheing seemed specific, rather than addressing the more general issue.

See the link here It's much tougher to do it over longer distances. Quest learned a lot of this from the I2 project.

The problem with Internet we know today is that it was intended for something totally different. ARPA first planned to have a dozen computers or so connected, with no fears of security except for direct nuclear attack on one of the nodes (one of 4 inital national supercomputing centres). Hence the weaknesses of IPv4 we're using today: it wasn't meant to reach the limitations on address space, and it wasn't meant to fend off intruders in electronic sense.

IPv6 sets out to address thopse issues and then some, i.e. it is geared towards modern needs of the Internet (the wretched Information Super Highway). But IPv6 is not the only thing coming around the corner to help us cope with the problems we have today. We also have Internet2 steaming about. Fortunately, it doesn't get much media attention so it is not so much a buzzword, but this I fear will change soon.

_________________

_________________

Internet2, which you mentioned in your post, is not for the general public. Taking a look at http://www.internet2.edu will explain that Internet2 is only for academic, medical, or scientific purposes.

Please think twice before misrepresenting projects and efforts. A clear distinction should be made between the IPv4 network that we exist on now, and what IPv6(ipv4 allowed) transitional phase we shal become in the years ahead. Internet2 is not "a new internet" designed to replace the corporate dominated world we connect and live in today.

Here's a "short" (there are over 160) list to start with:

http://www.internet2.edu/html/members.html

More important, I think, is the overall bandwidth availability on and off campus, so you're not stuck in the dorms just to stay connected.

http://www.ouhsc.edu/it/digicomm/int ernet2.asp --Some stuff I collected for our website when I worked in the networking department at the medical school at OU; provides an example of how a research institution is actually handling an I2 connection.

http://www.internet2.edu -- The main website for the project.


I have seen many comments that seem to equate I2 with a "private WAN" for universities. I think a better description would be that member institutions have private peering, i.e. I am at the University of Oklahoma, and I have traffic that needs to go to hotmail.com, it gets routed through ONENET then off to Cable and Wireless, etc. If I have traffic that needs to go to MIT, it gets routed through the Abilene network and off to the MBONE. Individual PCs on our campus network do not have to "subscribe" as the University pays something on the order of $30K per month to be a member institution.

Incidentally, a happy side effect is that I could theoretically get ridiculous ping times from the dorms at OU to a QIII server at Stanford, since many institutions I know of will not be crazy enough to try to filter what traffic goes on the I2 link. (Most of the POPs will be at something like OC12 @ 622Mbps)

I think perhaps you misunderstand what I2 is. You're not alone: it's a FAQ: Internet2 is not a physical network that will replace the Internet. Rather, Internet2's goal is to bring together institutions and resources to develop new technologies and capabilities that can then be deployed in the global Internet. Universities will maintain, and continue to experience substantial growth in the use of, existing Internet connections, which they will still obtain from commercial providers.

The point is, anything available on Internet2 is available to everyone; the only difference is that when packets are sent inside I2, they're routed a bit differently. While I'm talking, here's my response (quoting again from the FAQ) to the accusation that the whole idea is elitist and intended to take back the Internet away from grubby corporate interests: A key goal of this effort is to accelerate the diffusion of advanced Internet technology, in particular into the commercial sector.

There is no conspiracy here to disenfranchise the non-academic user.

Keeping in mind that the original Internet trickled down to us little people much after initial development, here are some tidbits about the I2 project from the Internet2 FAQ found here.

1. One goal is for advanced internet tech development and for application development for vital for research.

2. Universities (and some comercial partners) are taking the lead on the project considering that they need the resources that this project is working on creating - advanced tech and apps.

3. Cost for being part of I2 70 million per year for the universities (I think that is for all, not each). Additional funding, 30 million over the time of I2 creation from commercial sector, and unspecified amounts from NSF and other R&D grant making organizations.

4. What about getting in on it? Uni's that are not currently part of it can join if they have the funds to make the investment. The tech is expensive now but should come down into reach.