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Whatever Happened to Internet II?
Julio writes "Whatever happened to the Internet II?
This cpnet story says
'There is a computer science networking instructor at the University of Wisconsin, which is an I-2 institution, that is collaborative teaching a course at a college in Japan on computer networking. The students in Wisconsin were able to hear an expert on networking who just happened to be in Japan and they weren't constrained by being in Wisconsin,'" Apparently 150 colleges are hooked to I-2 already, and it's growing steadily -- and quietly.
...still a token ring diagram?
I'm not sure how much this will be scintillating the average
It's an educational tool, and seems to me to have more in common with a large academic WAN (high bandwidth, no fluff) than with our beloved Internet (creepy-crawly, mix-mash). A lot of the genius of the Internet (mark I) came about because of people being random. It's rather like Hyde Park, except with less people wrapped in flags.
Well, maybe not all that many less.
Anyway, this is more of a 'Whatever happened to...' article than anything. Thanks for the information.
It'd be nice if every institute of higher learning managed to wire to this puppy without tripping over the pitfalls that so shifted (and improved?) our Internet.
Apologies for the choppiness, I write this while I negotiate with one of my suppliers.
-l
and you'll see this headline:
"Microsoft, not content to bloat system requirements for simple tasks, has turned to bloating bandwidth requirements for simple tasks. The new MsFTP protocol requires 4 bytes bandwidth per byte of real data sent. To that end, and in preparation for the commercial acceptance of Internet II running MSTCP/IP, Microsoft has spent billions investing in gigabit PoP technology, to ensure that you will be able to surf to ESPN to check out the score on the game, 10 MB ActiveX control and all."
Isn't this just a big private broadband IP-based network? I find it a little hard to understand how this qualifies as 'Internet II' - from what I understand this doesn't have anything whatsoever to do with IPV6.
Just 30 regional hubs?
Secondly, it's routed through more than 30 regional hubs, called gigapops. "So if a school in Gary, Indiana wants to talk to a school in Elk Hart, Indiana it shouldn't have to go through Chicago," explains Peebles.
Nice to know that the Indiana is making it's big push for world domination. ;)
Just seems like a bit of a useless article to me.
I2 is basically what the internet was back in the 80s and early 90s, before the web took over.
-A.P.
--
"One World, one Web, one Program" - Microsoft promotional ad
"Remember when the U.S. had a drug problem, and then we declared a War On Drugs, and now you can't buy drugs anymore?"
My super-precise calculations indicate that 50% of the world's bandwidth is currently wasted on college students playing quake. The other 50% is college students downloading pr0n. Therefore, if all the colleges of the world start using internet2, we will all have super fast connections too since they will not be downloading pr0n and playing quake on our internet!! yay internet2!! ;)
Seriously though, this technology seems pretty impressive. The current internet was so poorly designed. Its barely even salvageable. We need a new system designed from the ground up to be fast and efficient. Too bad internet2 probably wont be that for home users for many years to come. Even if we all get DSL, our packets will not be routed in a reasonable manner. Traceroute your connection to your favorite websites and you'll see what I mean.. you never know when your packets will reach the next bottleneck.
Use the search string "Internet 2" and click feeling lucky..........and lo behold : Welcome To Microsoft's Home Page
Surely this is no more Internet-2 then the UK's JANet (Joint Academic Network) was Internet-1. It's an educational WAN. Is it available fully internationally (Europe wide as well as USA and Singapore)? Does it link businesses as well as educational establishments? Are there plans to allow individual access?
Whether they like it or not, it can't be considered a true INTER-Net until it has individuals on it, with all the problems that creates, until it is open access then it is simply a Private WAN. Big deal. Mobil Corp have WAN Links. So does IBM. Are these Internet-3 and Internet-4. Can we all have our own Internets? Someone will need to establish a naming convention if we can!
Sounds cool, how do I get on this thing fron Vancouver BC? Will I be able to use my whole 2.5mbit of bandwidth? The net's only running at 70kb/sec most places these days.
My school (Johns Hopkins) is part of the internet 2, and unlike what a previous poster said, all computers have automatic access to it. I don't have access to my computer at school now (the school shut down the network for y2k...) but if I traceroute a host on any member network, for example www.mit.edu, traffic goes through through vbns.net routers (the i2 routers). (Normal traffic doesn't go through the vbns.net routers.) I haven't done much with it, but friends have reported rates of almost 1MB/sec to other member schools.
Some links:
vbns network map
Internet 2 connected schools
Damn it! I get more and more pissed everytime I hear about some new, higher-bandwith connection being availibe.
There is no way in hell that Charter Communications will ever get around to putting in a able modems in my area. It seems that their recent buyout by AT&T has let their plans fall behind schedule!
Sounds more like marketing hype than anything. What makes the Internet the Internet and not just another large WAN is the fact that anyone can jump on and become a part of it. Perhaps someday this will become Internet II, but right now its just an invitation only high-speed WAN. So if I create a new network that move info a bit faster than "Internet II" and hook up a few machines to it, I can call it Internet III, right? Bah, I'm not impressed; they may as well sell their network to Microsoft just to make sure its run by folks who are expert in running things their way and shutting anyone else who won't improve their bottom line out.
Yes, I undertstand that it would take something on the order of the US national debt to upgrade the Internet to "Internet II" capabilities, but it seems pretty damned precocious for them to be calling their new toy Internet II when the only thing it shares in similarity to the Internet is that it connects computers. But, of course, it will be highly praised because it serves a loftier purpose and doesn't cater to those pathetic outsiders. To quote the article: I-2 is only currently available to institutions of higher learning, and organizers don't see that changing any time soon. The whole idea is to take down roadblocks from the first Internet, like heavy traffic and slow interfaces, and speed things up for college researchers sharing information. Yeah, I'm still having nightmares about those slow-as-molasses connections that I got while I was attending a community college; took me damn near an hour to pull down a 300 MB iso on that slow beast.
I've got nothing against these colleges using the insane amounts of money that they make to build themselves up the geek equivalent of the good-ole-boy network, but labeling it "Internet II" makes me want to wretch from the oily marketing feel of the whole project. Hey, more power to them; in a few years, they'll start trickling their discarded leftovers to the rest of the world and we might begin to see improvements in the real Internet. *shrug*
Deosyne
The Internet is chunked up according to business boundaries when ideally it should be organised along geographic boundaries. Are there any existing business models for Internet "services" that are also compatible with geography?
Found this site awhile ago. It seams this is one of the projects using the I2. Do not be fooled the date of the pages... Multidimensional Applications and Gigabit Internetwork Consortium (MAGIC) was the first use. MAGIC-II is now being done. On the I2, the displays are pulled over the wire real time, designed for battle. But you can try this at home -- if you have a Indy and SOME disk space.
The network is non-routeable. Institutions apply for membership. Once a member you can apply for PVCs to other institutions. Not to mention that the average connection is an OC-3 and not too many organizations have the funds for that. I2 is also very NOT commercial so it's not mainstream. Here is some news about I2's expansion in New York State. Cheers! Big Jilm
there was a cnn article a while back about canada doing something with pure fibre. they were able to get the entire contents of the library of congress from one end of canada to the other in less than 1sec using fibre with 8coours of light, and said they were working on improving it to use 2,000 colours of light for a supposed bandwidth of 2-3 Tbps. this is probably old news to most of us, but there is a point here(someplace).
all of the "Superfast Unobtainable Internet Connections(TM)" are just that; unobtainable.
most of us are still on 56k, and some on 33.6 or worse.
even with cable and dsl well into the public allready, this technology is worthless to us unless we have a super-beowolf cluster doing DNA research as an excuse to get it.
ill be happy when i @home removes that 128kilobit cap on my upstream.
I think Al's finishing up the router configurations. It will be up soon.
That's what I love about them high-school girls. I get older, they stay the same age... yes they do.
--Wooderson 1976
-- jimmycarter
One of the goals of Internet 2 that is useful (IMO, anyway) is a test platform for very high-speed applications.
It's all very well developing some very shiny technologies that 'should work' when they have enough WAN bandwidth, but it's another thing entirely to do real-world testing on them.
Things like developing the protocols to send HDTV over the network need a real live network like this (to test human factors in development as much as technical), so it's really not just "to take down roadblocks from the first Internet, like heavy traffic and slow interfaces, and speed things up for college researchers sharing information".
People might be interested in reading George Gilder's "The Coming of the FibreSphere". Basically he calims that you can substitute mass cheap bandwidth for switches (which being electronic only add latency) creating a design of dark fibre with all the intelligence at the peripheral. Now while this may appeal to customers, certain telcos suddenly find themselves in the commodity bandwidth business with nothing to support their big expensive time-based, distance-function bills. Guess what their natural response is? How can they justify the $n per megabyte when they can't control the marginal costs and thus segment the market by imposing deliberate latencies or constraints. Remember that in the IT industry, the value migrates to the complex and difficult areas (e.g. CPU, complex software) so with companies investing in voice-activated smart phones, they lose control unless they can corner any new markets and introduce delaying tactics. Why bother with switching when you can tune to 1 of thousands of fibre frequencies, especially when you can't use more than a few hundred home shopping categories anyway. Anyway, the hope is that by giving the smart universities some taste of what is possible, they will develop bandwidth-hungry applications that will drive consumer demand and thus make large-scale cost effective infrastructure investment. Life will be interesting.
:-).
It is rather interesting that the base human desires seem to dominate new technology. I've heard an urban ledgend that the vibrator was the third patented invention that used the new minature electric motors (after sewing machine and something else I can't recall at the moment), the porn industry is leading with DVD and the porn sites (and gambling) are one of the few profitable internet enterprises. Not sure whether this is a commentary on applied technology or human nature though
LL
It seems clear that I2 will be closed to "general public" for some time, then I wonder how this could affect the life of those who (like me) are already out of campus life.
I wonder if the text content available through I2 will be the same as the one we can reach by means of the Internet. It would be sad if I1 and I2 servers were separated and scientists decided to give a higher priority to I2 material (which they probably would), and we couldn't access new papers and so on. I believe servers will be separated (if not yet) for security reasons. If they aren't, someone may hack a way to use an I2 connection at some university through poor-cousin internet. The bandwidth bottleneck would still exist, but people would do it, either for the fun of it or for malicious reasons. (Disclaimer: I'm not encouraging anyone to do that.)
On the good side, I see this as, if not an embryo, at least a test bed for something that will be needed sooner or later: a replacement for the internet as we know it. The experience gathered with I2 will be a very usefull when the time comes to draw the standards for such a replacement. Intelligent routing, for instance, is a wonderfull idea.
As someone has already posted in a funny way, the small bandwidth relief originated by students using I2 instead of I1(?) is pretty welcome too!
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"People ask FAQs all the time". - David Allen
I2 is just their little way of saying, "Piss off AOLusers!"
I know using 9 little letters m-i-c-r-o-s-o-f-t really disrupted your thought patterns, as it does to most Slashdotters, but try to hang on long enough to catch the gist of things..
You can find all about it at the following link
Interesting is that it is only open to US universities and that they need to cough up $25,000 membership fees and an investment of about $500,000 a year.
Throug Memoranda of Understandings Internet2 has teamed up with similar organisations across the globe. So though it might be silent, it cannot be said that the organisation is not among the living anymore.
Use Adsense for Charity
Keeping in mind that the original Internet trickled down to us little people much after initial development, here are some tidbits about the I2 project from the Internet2 FAQ found here.
1. One goal is for advanced internet tech development and for application development for vital for research.
2. Universities (and some comercial partners) are taking the lead on the project considering that they need the resources that this project is working on creating - advanced tech and apps.
3. Cost for being part of I2 70 million per year for the universities (I think that is for all, not each). Additional funding, 30 million over the time of I2 creation from commercial sector, and unspecified amounts from NSF and other R&D grant making organizations.
4. What about getting in on it? Uni's that are not currently part of it can join if they have the funds to make the investment. The tech is expensive now but should come down into reach.
Can anyone tell me the speed of I2 over the current tech being used today? I looked at the faq and saw nothing on speed :\
the data could just be mirrored. If there's demand for the data, they will be provided.
Well what is internet-2?
... Distance Learning, TeleMedicine, TeleMaintenance, Collaboratiive Research and Science, VTC, ... Knowledgebase - automated Data collection, manipulation, interpretation, distribution, ....
... I'm no expert (just interested).
"Reality is a self-induced hallucination."
To some in education it is an education internet.
To some in the military it is a DARPA internet project.
To some in business it is the future of the B-B eBusiness world internet.
I can not speak for internet-2, but I can say what I think ("AFT").
Internet-2 is a project with the intent to provide a developmental space for "Things to come.". Significantly greater bandwidth, vastly improved bandwidth utilization, resource management and control, and most importantly a truely enhanced functions and features rich environment for all internet users.
Internet-2 is advancing, discovering, and developing what will pe part of the future internet
Anyway this is a little of the way I look at the intent for the future internet. PLEASE, do not make the mistake of interpreting anything I said as a "1984 - Big Brother" concept. The future internet will be for the people just like today's internet. Dang Good Stuff on it's way to US folks and y'all. I just read about this stuff
WISE-YES and APES
Unaccountable leaders are masters, and unrepresented people are slaves. How do US and EU fare?
The interesting thing about internet 2 is that there is no provision for upgrading it. They just lobbied for all this money to build a super fast network but lacked any incentive to upgrade it. When it first came out it was monumental: 200k/sec downloads. Since then internet 1 has far surpassed internet 2 with 600k/sec downloads. Clearly, competition has driven internet 1 while not just a lack of competition but restricting use to academia has locked internet 2.
Whether they like it or not, it can't be considered a true INTER-Net until it has individuals on it, with all the problems that creates, until it is open access then it is simply a Private WAN. Big deal. Mobil Corp have WAN Links. So does IBM. Are these Internet-3 and Internet-4. Can we all have our own Internets? Someone will need to establish a naming convention if we can!
Since when does the word "Internet" have any reference to users, much less require "individuals"? (what's an individual anyway?) Internet is just that - an inter-network network. That is, it is a network that connects subnetworks. This term was chosen because the Internet connects thousands of organizations and their networks together. The Internet 2 also connects many organizations' networks, just not as many (and more selective) as Internet 1.
If this is who I think it is, then heaven help Japan.
Don't be jealous. You'll come around.
So are you saying that you would prefer the crustier, exclusive, countable-node Internet of pre-1994 to today's looser, accessible, and ever-expanding Net?
Don't get me wrong. I like the idea of geeks, nerds, academics, scholars, and accelerated students having a mode of communication over which they can share information (and ultimately, commune) without added noise from web spiders, *@aol.com, MMF, spam, and pron-hocking sites. But I think you can do most of this over the Internet as it stands.
The poster is right to say that 'Internet 2' is a misleading name, because it gives the impression that someday, reasonably soon, the lumbering Internet being widely used today will be rebuilt with Internet 2 technology, the same way Amtrak might like to replace its old lumbering rail system with Acela technology, or the way the phone companies have mostly replaced the old analog system with a digital system, or the way car companies have replaced catalytic converters with fuel injectors. But the word is that it probably wont.
The goal/purpose of Internet 2, as it seems to stand, is to replace the academic backbone that the 'original' Internet once was. Despite geek wistfulness and a tenacity to history, it really should be called something else. Cable TV wasn't called Television 2, nor was FM radio called Radio-2. These both served the same purposes as their originals, and have come to largely replace them, just as Internet 2 is wont to do for the institutional origins of Internet 1.
But for the detractors of the new exclusive networks like I-2 and U2, have no fear. Someday (if not already), bofh.forsale will be created and it will all start to come crumbling down, again.
Terrorists can attack freedom, but only Congress can destroy it.
Care to give any examples of what could be improved, and how? Be sure to give some thought to how your changes will affect all of the design goals of the internet.
Just a note, one of the most interesting spellings of that word that I have seen. Do Germans pronounce it cloige?
Dunno about jhu, but neu has been part of I2 for about three years or so, and I never did anything with it or even see a computer that was attached to it. NEU has pretty much kept the rest of their net separate.
Possibly grad CS students in the new corporate research center get to play with it, but those are few and far; the main CS resources are enough for most students' projects involving things like FTP'ing large 3D data files, even if they do have to start it at 9PM and come back at 8Am to see the results. (After all, that's the way it was on the old Internet, too.)
Most of the CS research being done on I-2 there seem to be testing new high-speed protocols, not taking advantage of the speed for shipping monumentous research data in convenient amounts of time. (Besides, most of yall get 6 more weeks per term than NEU does. Plenty of time to finish your research.)
Other than that, a programmer turned sociology professor that I've done projects with has mentioned that they are also doing human-network interaction research with I-2.
Traceroutes from neu to mit go though BBN, just like you would expect.
Terrorists can attack freedom, but only Congress can destroy it.
The Internet was rather well designed if you take account of the fact that it was initially intended only to share data and provide remote access between academic institutions, and not many of them at that. Now it has grown beyond all imagining, yet it still works using essentially the same protocols - a mark of good design IMO.
m - this has useful links at the end. For IPv6, see http://www.ipv6.org/.
As for I-2, it will be IPv6 based, but contrary to popular opinion IPv6 is not automagically faster or better than IPv4 - while v6 has many nice features such as autoconfiguration, auto-addressing, large address space, etc, there are very few features designed to make things go faster. All the technologies listed below apply equally to IPv6 and IPv4:
- MPLS - Multiprotocol Label Switching - allows administrator fine tuning of the routes taken across the network, e.g. to balance loads over the whole network, can also be used for VPNs and QoS.
- DiffServ - Differentiated Services - lets you assign a priority level to every packet (e.g. gold, silver, basic) and make gold packets get some guaranteed bandwidth or lower latency, hop by hop. Easy to deploy, does not give cast iron QoS guarantees.
- IntServ and RSVP - Integrated Services and Resource Reservation Protocol - lets applications request a certain QoS (bandwidth, latency, etc.) end to end across a network. Harder to deploy across a network, and has scalability problems, but these are gradually being addressed and it does give end to end guarantees.
There is one neat feature in IPv6 that supports RSVP - it's called the Flow Label, and is basically a number that is assigned to all packets in a given 'flow' (e.g. a video session). By assigning this number, RSVP routers after the first one in the path can go somewhat faster since they only need to look at one field rather than checking src/dest IP addresses/ports.
Windows 2000 includes many QoS features, particularly RSVP/IntServ and DiffServ, but not IPv6. RSVP is available for Linux, IPv6 is available in early form, and the Linux-DiffServ project is one of the most advanced implementations of DiffServ that is publicly available.
For more information on QoS, see http://www.qosforum.com/docs/glossary/glossary.ht
Of course, the ability to send traffic over big fat optical pipes is available to v4 and v6. However, the cost of ASICs probably dictates that gigabit/terabit routers may only support IPv4 for some time, until v6 becomes more widely deployed. However, I-2 may well be using early versions of v6 gigabit routers.
Look at what the connection prices are for an OC3 of connectivity, and $25k setup, $40k/month isn't really that much.
We'll assume I2 is much like a Tier1 provider on the currect system the rest of us are stuck with.
here's a few prices (from boardwatch.com) (the highest bandwidth listed from each backbone)
UUNET : 155Mbps = $179k/month
C&W : 21Mbps = $20.8k/month
GTE : 45Mbps = $55k/month
Sprint 155Mbps = 160k/month
I mean, you can't just hook people up, even if you are non-profit, without having some staffing, routers, utility & housing costs, etc.
Build it, and they will come^Hplain.
Where do you think most of this activity is
happening? With Joe Suburb that takes two minutes
to download a song over a 56K line or Joe College
who can do it in a couple seconds?
...who else could come up with this profound statement.
"Students are actually using the Internet to learn about networking," explains Greg Wood Director of the Internet II Project
who'da thunk it?
+&x
http://www.ouhsc.edu/it/digicomm/int ernet2.asp --Some stuff I collected for our website when I worked in the networking department at the medical school at OU; provides an example of how a research institution is actually handling an I2 connection.
http://www.internet2.edu -- The main website for the project.
I have seen many comments that seem to equate I2 with a "private WAN" for universities. I think a better description would be that member institutions have private peering, i.e. I am at the University of Oklahoma, and I have traffic that needs to go to hotmail.com, it gets routed through ONENET then off to Cable and Wireless, etc. If I have traffic that needs to go to MIT, it gets routed through the Abilene network and off to the MBONE. Individual PCs on our campus network do not have to "subscribe" as the University pays something on the order of $30K per month to be a member institution.
Incidentally, a happy side effect is that I could theoretically get ridiculous ping times from the dorms at OU to a QIII server at Stanford, since many institutions I know of will not be crazy enough to try to filter what traffic goes on the I2 link. (Most of the POPs will be at something like OC12 @ 622Mbps)
We canadians have the world's fastest network who needs Internet 2.
Folks, I just wanted to try to clear up some confusion. As a student at an Internet 2 institution (yes, we know how to use computers down south! :)), I think I can help a little bit.
:).
First, Internet 2 is not necessarily a general-purpose network. It is used primarily for research in high-performance computing and really cool stuff like telemedicine and video multicast conferences.
Second, you can't get pr0n or mp3's or things like that from the network unless they're hosted at a member institution's site. You can't connect to the regular internet from I2. Can you imagine NCSA hosting the most realistic "virtual girlfriend" simulation? Well, okay, maybe not a great example
Third, the new applications and experience gained from Internet 2 could be well applied in the future on the Next generation Internet. This is where regular folks can get the advantages of a high-speed network and maybe not even know it.
Of course, I'm crazy about anything that's new and "neat," as I'm sure most people reading this are. However, I can't wait to (maybe, just maybe) get to work with this project and help develop things that might lead to better science, better global connections, and Quake II games that don't slow down... er.. anyway. -AC
Allen Cain
Allen Cain
Students here at Penn State (where I just graduated from) have access to the Internet2 from anywhere in the university's network. Packets destined for other universities on the VBNS (Internet2) are routed through the Pittsburgh Supercomputer Center and over Internet2. However, there are two connections to the PSC, a DS-3 and a new OC-3. The students (and mostly everyone else who's not doing special research) get the DS-3, which also routes traffic to the commercial internet...still, I was able to max out the 10Mbit ethernet in my dorm.
In fact, I'm still running RH 5.2 (2.2.13-rtl2.0) which I downloaded from uiuc and installed in fifteen minutes when I was on campus last spring...
This wasn't just a one time deal, it was actually a series of scheduled lectures, some originating in Japan, others originating in the US. On the US side, the professor teaching the class was Prof. Larry Landweber at the University of Wisconsin Madison, one of the people who helped create CSNet back in ArpaNet days. On the Japan side it was Prof. Jun Murai at Keio University who is often refered to as the Internet guru in Japan. Larry and Jun are good friends and had been wanting to do something like this for a while.
The lectures themselves were basically video-conferences. Using Sony DV equipment, the audio and video streams were sent across Internet/2 infrastructure. Someone mentioned that they didn't see what this has to do with IPv6. The Internet/2 on its own doesn't, however, this project utilized IPv6 going over ATM. There was no compression used in this, so bandwidth usage was around 35-40 Mbps. For the most part, it worked very well with amazing video and audio quality.
I've been told that this was the first time that regularly scheduled video content was sent from the US to Asia over the Internet/2. It was amazing to see it work. If anyone has any questions, please feel free to e-mail me.
Sam Etler
UW Madison
CSL Networking
It's interesting to read what Dave Farber, recently Named FCC Chief Technologist, has to say about Internet 2. You can read his position paper on Internet 2, which he calls NII2000. Even if you don't agree with his position, it's an excellent paper.
Hopefully it means that if universities want to continue building their ivory tower, they won't be doing it with my tax dollars (or not as many, anyway).
Um, it wasn't academics...try again.
I don't think the people who developed ARPA (and whatever may have preceeded it) really don't count as academics.
At that time, a large majority of research was being done at Universities, or institutions connected to Universities.
So yes in one way or another it was "academics" who created the internet. It certainly wasn't some ridiculous innane commercial venture.
The present internet doesn't allow for absolute authority. We just move somewhere else or write a new protocol. Govts don't like this. They like order and control. Q: How do you get people from a lawless society to an ordered, controlled one? A: Send the money there. Look at the players in I2. All big players in the present internet and the Govt. Let me present a scenario. The I2 resides in security and health among those paying exhorbitant amounts to use it. It is run and nourished by some of the brightest minds in computing and those learning about it. It is closely monitored by institutions who have a close interest in security and control (DARPA et al). What do those people hope to gain from it? Why will a school shell out half a mil a year to see videos in alost real time when they have a hard time justifying buying new instruments for a music dept? The players all hope to get major stakes. What kind of stakes? How bankable are the rights to rent out large blocks of IP addresses needed to get on a superfast network? How many companies do you think would move their websites and e-commerce sites there just to be safer from intrusion. No-one really owns the present internet, therefore, no-one can really control it. Look at who owns this one? Do you think they'd really mind writing the protocol to require Intel's chip id being active to use it? Anonymity would be gone in such a system. Wanting to use it would be like wanting to drive a car. You need a license, to be registered and your vehicle does too. Call it paranoia, but this is what I'd do if I was a govt body and wanted the control back. I'd be interested to hear from those using I2 whether such requirements already exist or if you can actually remain 'just another IP address'. And the sad part is people would give up anonymity for bells and whistles.
or up until today. MS just released a patch (I got it from a link here) that lessens the amount of packets sent over high speed connections. I had known this was a problem for a while, because when I switched to using a linux MASQ box to get to the net instead of plugging my winbox right into the cable modem, my pings halved and my download speeds doubled.
...is what I want to know. Must not have much to do with who your local political pull. In MS, the only two schools with I2 are Southern Miss and Msstate. Olemiss, alma mater of Trent Lott and countless other tenured politicians doesn't have it, according to the I2 website. Makes sense, though. USM and MSU have the more well developed CS departments. Glad to see that southern pork barrel politics hasn't yet tainted this area of computing.
- A.P.
--
"One World, one Web, one Program" - Microsoft promotional ad
"Remember when the U.S. had a drug problem, and then we declared a War On Drugs, and now you can't buy drugs anymore?"
I work at a I2 institution and have seen a major change in the available bandwidth. It helps me get my work done faster. Here is an application of I2 from last fall at a few instituions.
Another benefit of I2 is as a testbed for new protocols and applications. Multicasting is already up on most of the network and IPv6 is being tested and will probably be in production in a year or so.
http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/release.asp?Rel easeID=16519
I went to a small seminar on how my university (U of Michigan) was working with the internet II project. If I remember correctly, it is basically an academic undertaking, although commercial organizations are involved. It sounded like internet II will always be internet two. It will be sort of a testing ground for technologies that will be incorporated in the current internet. Members of the internet II network, however, are allowed to use the iII network for their regular internet trafic, if it is kept to a acceptable level. They also have to provide some things such as some minimum level of quality (I forgot the technical term for it), etc. Bandwith seems to be more important than most other things due to the kinds of applications that will run on it.
Currently the internet is fine for user applications on a desktop, but it can't link two distant georgraphic locations that need to share a great deal of information. For example, one of the things our CTO mentioned was building some sort of training ground for medical professionals. UM would have a room with moving floors and all (to simulate earthquake situations). Some other university (or even our own hospital) could simulate an emergency room close to the earthquake site while another could simulate a red-cross office. All these things would work in concert (sharing sounds, medical information, etc.).
There is also a lot of work being done on voice-over-ip and video on demand. I don't think IPv6 is high on their priority.
Again, I went to this talk a ver long time ago (a semester or two ago) some don't quote me on this stuff.
Internet II specifically means the IPv6/Frame/SONET
exclusive network for higher education. There's
an offshoot called Abiline as well, and they seem
to be two separate initiatives. I have my doubts;
increasing the bandwidth even with ipv6 QoS will only result in people
using more and soaking the lines again. Plus Internet II costs an
arm and a leg to join; seems to be a snob trophy. The ATM networks
are better at allowing network admins to distribute the bandwidth
they way they need to. I psyched that DSL will spread ATM to the home. Just make
sure you buy it from a QoS provider so you don't get rewarmed frame relay.
Someone had to do it.
God why is it the world is overrun by unconscious fascists? Why is it so many people just have a need to keep doing shit the way it's always been done. And don't give me that crap about Unix being 30 years old, there's a very good reason for that. It's designed in general terms, not the specific terms Microsoft offers, which become obsolete every 8-12 months. In Unix some things will remain until 2+2=5. Logistical masturbation, GRRRR... It should be around BUSINESS boundaries. Speed of a connection is determined by the money put into the hardware. Information travels at the speed of light you dork. On this small rock Earth, distance is beautifully negligible, hence. The only thing in the way of fast access is the width of the line, hence the term bandwidth. Being 5 miles away or 5 inches a way isn't going to make a 14.4K, 56K, or T-1 line faster. Are there any existing business models for Internet "services" that are also compatible with geography? I can name one, cyberterrorism. Luddites! Virtual reality (as opposed to virtual fantasy) is worlds apart from the way reality as we know it works.
The message on the other side of this sig is false.
God why is it the world is overrun by unconscious fascists? Why is it so many people just have a need to keep doing shit the way it's always been done. And don't give me that crap about Unix being 30 years old, there's a very good reason for that. It's designed in general terms, not the specific terms Microsoft offers, which become obsolete every 8-12 months. In Unix some things will remain until 2+2=5. Logistical masturbation, GRRRR...
It should be around BUSINESS boundaries. Speed of a connection is determined by the money put into the hardware. Information travels at the speed of light you dork. On this small rock Earth, distance is beautifully negligible, hence. The only thing in the way of fast access is the width of the line, hence the term bandwidth. Being 5 miles away or 5 inches a way isn't going to make a 14.4K, 56K, or T-1 line faster.
Are there any existing business models for Internet "services" that are also compatible with geography?
I can name one, cyberterrorism. Luddites! Virtual reality (as opposed to virtual fantasy) is worlds apart from the way reality as we know it works.
The message on the other side of this sig is false.
yayaya, it is very fast and supports very real time bandwidth hungry applications. But what is it and why it is so fast? The truth can be explained clearly by my introduction of Internet 3: Internet 3 (I3) is the next next generation of internet with even more bandwidth and speed that can provide faster than light communication. It is so fast that Slashdotters can read the next topic even before Hemos put it up. Anybody wants I4 ?
The decision when to upgrade is a really tough one. There is a political debate going on in Sweden right now about whether the goverment should provide broadband to all citizens by building a new nationwide fiberoptic network. Some people and companies argue loudly for this, and say it will be good both for the economy and the citizens. Others protest loudly and say it's back to the bad old collective days and against the new more market oriented society Sweden has become. SUNET has to decide soon if they are going to do the 622 Mbps upgrade now (which will cost money and might become obsolete quickly), or if they should wait and use the new broadband solution (which might be delayed or not show up at all.)
General info:
Apart from 40 high schools and universites, they also support 49 libraries and 22 museums. In 1999 the number of permanently connected computers were above 185 000, and the number of daily users exceeded 500 000 (I'm one of them, but since I don't live in a student apartment I don't have 10 Mbps, alas). The administrative HQ of SUNET is at Kungliga Tekniska Högskolan (Royal Institute of Technology) in Stockholm, Umeå University handles the expansion.
SUNET world connections from KTH:
Helsingfors 155 Mbps
Copenhagen 155 Mbps
Oslo 155 Mbps
Reykjavik 4 Mbps
Warsaw 7 Mbps
USA 310 Mbps
Europe 155 Mbps
Russia 4 Mbps
Ukraine 384 Kbps
Estonia 2 Mpbs
History:
1989 64 Kbps
1992 2 Mbps
1994 34 Mbps
1999 155 Mbps
************************************************ ***
Being bitter is drinking poison and hoping someone else will die
High speed internet connections are going to be hard to come by until the phone companies get off of their backsides and upgrade the lines themselves. It does not matter what protocal you use or what you call it,we need fiber optic cable going to every house in the world. That is where the bottle neck is, the last mile of cable. The last mile of cable is also the most expensive, so don't count on it happening any time soon.
Seems to me that the original poster mentioned that downloading data at community colleges was horribly slow. I attend a community college and I do know, for what all the politicians in this country talk about "lifetime learning", CC students and faculty aren't exactly first in line for resources.
So for all I2 is supposed to be an academic network, there are going to be a lot of schools that need a higher bandwidth option and aren't going to see one.
(Of course, what I'd like to see is states accounting more monies to get rid of all the 386s and 486s in the programming lab-or at least not run Windows on them. That would be the first step in modernization.)
It time for us hackers to build our own network around the world using what ever hacks we can think of for building the infrastructure. Ofcoase the protocols would be an open source and all of the software that would drive the connections would be open source also.
Come all ye slashdotters lets build our own net, since the internet is way to popular these days.
-Jasa -- Linux - The SOURCE will be with you, ALWAYS
its bilib0ng fell off a while ago
has probably been stated at least once or twice but alot of people are still confused. The big difference between the internet 1 and 2 is that the internet 2 is circuit switched rather than being packet switched. Sure packet switching may be a bit more modular but it's also much slower and requires enormous routers to send the packets on their merry way. This leads to much faster speeds and less latency between two nodes on the network. The ATM networking scheme is what let them get a 40 Mb connection between Wisconsin and Japan for good quality uncompressed video. I bet it looked damn cool.
I'm a loner Dottie, a Rebel.
As I have not seen anything about this here
;-)
I will post a short summary of
http://www.dfn.de/win/gwin/ueberblick/
"In Germany the so called B-WIN (broadband
science network) will be succeded by the
so called G-WIN (gigabit science network)
during spring 2000. The net offers rates in
multiples of 2.5 GBit/s (that is 2.5 for
the beginning, 5.0, 7.5, 10.0 and so on
later). The main reason for this is to make
the german research network i2-compliant."
The rest is just blab blab about how good
this is for Germany and how it enables the
German people to rule the world
-- NoWonder of WonderWorks/OmegaProject