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Mebbe

http://qa.mandrakesoft.com/torrent/Mandrakelinux-1 0.0-Community.torrent

i was looking at some of their product material on their web site and came across this page.

i was expecting those little thumbnails to enlarge to larger screenshots - but sadly they don't appear to. for a company that appears to pride itself on the visual appearance of it's distro i think they let themselves down very badly by the presentation and architecture of their web site.

so my point... it's all well and good to invest large amounts of time and money into bringing a good (from some of the threads that assumption appears debatable!) distribution to market and then not investing in the actual product marketing. personally i didn't feel compelled to even look at the product based on their site...

I think you are misinformed in some way. waht webpage did you read this?

Here is the sites comparisions.
Here is the official club day
And here is from my e-mail:
- Silver Members and above: Immediate access to 5 Mandrakelinux 10.0
Official PowerPack CD ISO images which includes three Install CDs plus
two additional CDs of extra applications


- Gold Members and above: Immediate access to 7 Mandrakelinux 10.0
Official PowerPack+ CD ISO images which includes three Install CDs
plus four additional CDs of extra applications. This offer includes the Kolab groupware server.

It sounds like gold gets the power-pack+ while silver is simply the desktop version of power pack. Where am I wrong on all this?

Can't you download it here? Or is this a different version?

The torrent being here.

• an unprecedented level of (MS-related) virus alerts, or
• the fact that these viruses only affect one line of products from one manufacturer, or
• the fact that the press gives no coverage of platforms and applications that are immune?

Yes, OS X, BSD, and the various Linux distributions (i.e. Debian, Mandrake, SUSE, or RedHat ). All easy to install, all easy to maintain, all easy to use. OS X comes pre-installed by the OEM and an increasing number of Linux distros are, too.

Furthermore, the layered structure of the OSes and separation of privileges means that these are resistent to future viruses as well as immune to those available today. Yes, apologists and astroturfers like to ignore that as well as blame users. But even if, and that's a big if, market share has more effect than design flaws, it will take quite some time for the virus activity to shift and during that time, businesses and users have come out ahead. Right now, die hard ideologs who refuse to drop a defective product are costing billions of dollars per quarter, a not insignificant number when you think how many jobs could be kept rather than downsized or outsourced in these increasingly bad economic times for the U.S.

How about a little focus? The title should have been "An Unprecedented level of MS Virus Alerts" and steer users off of the hamster wheel. From easy to hard, these are just a few of the many options:

Let me add this to what Afrosheen already told you, this (the idea of hdlist files updating themselves rather than downloading the whole thing again) has just been discussed on the cooker mailling list after mandrake10 release, as they were debating how they could improve urpmi. This idea was rejected because, as much as it would be doable, the result would be a still important download but with a not negligeable data processing overhead. All in all a loss more than a gain.
Especially when you consider that the synthesis files already exist.
My take on it, and i believe i remember someone mentionning it in that discussion, would be an improvment in the syntax so that such possibilities of the software are easier to find for the beginner, in the help for the same reasons and maybe a choice by default of the synthesis file rather than the huge hdlist when on a slow link?
Maybe a "wish feature" on their bugzilla would help them implement it?
bugzilla

I can't be the only one who has noticed that major product version numbers are a) inflated, and b) the same (+- 1) as the competetors. For example, this is Suse 9.1, Mandrake has some 9.x stuff and even a 10.0, RedHat had a version 9. RedHat even stripped the .X like Solaris, which is at version 9 and a 10 is coming. Slackware is hovering around 9.1 as well. Of course more pure distros like Debian does not participate. Nor do the current owners of all things UNIX. Hell, even Apple's OS is in the 9/10 range.

This happened when there was competition with word processors (Word vs. WordPerfect), also this happened when there was competition with Web Browsers (Netscape vs IE). etc. Microsoft has surpassed the whole version number thing by appending 2 random letters at the end of their products, so I guess that is next for everyone else to do.

Just an observation.

There are good x86 installers for Debian, from Progeny at least, but it, like Mandrake's, just isn't portable enough to be officially Debian.

Mandrake's installer is in perl and perl-GTK2. A platform that doesn't have perl isn't a real unix, and one that can't run perl-GTK2 isn't going to be worthwhile for GUI use ...

And, considering the community is reviving the sparc/sparc64 port of Mandrake and maintaining the alpha port, the Mandrake community would welcome help in porting DrakX to the architectures it doesn't currently support.

Of course, this assumes that "games" = 3D games.

Gentoo is just as commercial as Mandrake is

Oh really? Let's just compare TLDs.
http://www.mandrakesoft.com vs http://www.gentoo.org

Tell me again which one of them is more COMmercial?

Yep, I know how to use urpmi, I know how to install from the cd. I am kidding you not, my purchased copy of mandrake 9.2 came with no development tools.

As unbelievable as that might seen, it's my own fault since it was outlined on the website.

1. My mouse was uncontrollable.

Most likely you selected the wrong driver for your mouse during installation. The 2.6 kernel now makes this a lot easier ... so Mandrake 10.0 should get this right.

2. By far the biggest problem: Installing programs. In XP it's as easy as double clicking an icon and picking a directory. Not so with Linux. You can read my post on the newbie forums
here.

Your problems are *precisely* because you think WindowsXP does things right, which it doesn't. You should not be downloading arbitrary packages from the internet WHEN THE PACKAGES ARE PROVIDED BY THE DISTRO!!!!!

Don't install ALT Linux packages on Mandrake, when Mandrake provides packages.

Don't go looking on the net first for packages, USE THE PACKAGE MANAGEMENT TOOLS PROVIDED!!!

Mandrake has it's own pilot-link packages, and you can install them in the Mandrake Control Center->Software Management->Install software, or you could do it with 'urpmi pilot-link'.

Just becuase you're used to XP only providing 20% of the functionality you need out-the-box doesn't mean Linux is like this.

If you have downloaded a Mandrake RPM, double-clicking on it should actually install it for you. Did you actually *try* this? It's worked every time I tried it.

I have no idea where anything installs to

Why do you need to know? Everything is installed so that is just works. If you really need to know, the package management tools will tell you.

, nor the best way to uninstall things.

Use the package management tools (Mandrake Control Center->Software Management->Remove software).

3. Despite claims of stability, Konqeror crashed repeatedly. I can not say why

Well, unless you tell use what you were doing, there's not much we can do to find out what the problem was ... or whether there is a solution.

4. After installing a program, finding where it installed to would be like pulling teeth. Making a shortcut would be even worse.

Well, if you don't use Mandrake packages, this is what happens. The equivalent would be compiling and installing all the files on Windows, and when last did you do that?

5. Installing the correct driver for my soundcard was very complicated, even after reading the INSTALL file. I eventually gave up.

Unless you are using a card with proprietary drivers, the chances are you already had the driver installed, either:
-the card was muted by default (ALSA does this to prevent damage), and Mandrake hadn't been provided with the necessary information to unmute your sound card on first boot (as it does for most cards, since users have provided the necessary information)
-your card works better with a different driver WHICH IS INCLUDED!! You could have run draksound to switch drivers and give the other driver a try.

6. I got a sync out of range message when I first tried running Mandrake. I left the monitor settings on default during install. This took hours to discover and fix.

Essentially the same problem. Mandrake includes information on all monitors it can. But, if no-one bothers to report their hardware settings, nothing can be done to fix it ...

See how you can help here.

But above all installing programs is a pain.

Then you are doing something wrong, and you should be careful not to give out false information when you haven't got enough experience to tell if you are just doing the wrong thing.

Forget what you learned about the easy way to do things on Windows, they are WRONG! Things are much easier on Mandrake, *if* you are prepared to actually change your habits ...

I read the press releases a while ago last year. I recall it being a "worldwide agreement". I dunno much else. the press release from HP is here. i searched for mandrake's too.

they're for mdk 10.0, not 9.2. Probably that wouldn't work.

You didn't say you wanted 9.2. The 9.2 ISOs have *just* been removed to make place for the 10.0 ISOs, but a number of mirrors will probably still have the 9.2 ISOs that have been publicy available for 5 months.

(same thing applies for your two other points)

Yes, all freely-licensed software in the distribution is available publicy.

where do I get a free, stable, mdk-modified kernel for 9.2 ?

ftp://mandrake.contactel.cz/Mandrake/9.2/i586/Mand rake/RPMS/kernel-2.4.22.10mdk-1-1mdk.i586.rpm
(or on any of the other Mandrake mirrors - where they have been for over 5 months). And, it's trivial to set the distro up to install packages from the network, unlike many other "commercial" distros (I'm fighting with this on a Redhat box inside a heavily firewall network ... with things that are trivial on Mandrake).

But I don't want to *subscribe* to anything because it diminishes my freedom to switch to another distro whenever I want to - hence it diminishes the level of concurrence between the various distros.

No one is forcing you to subscribe. They are just making it attractive, so that they can pay their rent.

Even in the case of patched (hence nonstandard) sources, only standard patches should be used, ie patches available for any distro.

All patches are visible in the SRPM and in Mandrake packaging CVS.

If you want to have broken software (ie some software doesn't compile with gcc-3.2 out-the-box, some perl packages were broken by perl-5.8.2), insist on this. If you want software that actually works out-the-box for everyone, patches are essential. We don't patch software for fun. We patch software to add features or bugfixes that we feel are necessary.

it prevents you from truly learning gnulinux

Has Mandrake has installed a patch which prevents vi from editing a config file? Or, maybe removed the man pages? Or maybe removed documentation?

Get real.

Any linux distro can be used to learn about Linux. It's the user who has to make the choice.

On distros like Slackware you don't have a choice, and that's why it is unproductive to do other things (besides learning the distro) on them.

For example, I much prefer documenting the setup of features that are much more difficult on other distros than spending hours getting basic configuration done.

As I said, you have some misconceptions.

At the moment I'm running the packages from here on my eMachines M6805 laptop. (AMD64, Radeon 9600 Mobility) Works wonderfully.

3/12/2004 |10.0 Download | 3 first CDs of download edition released to everyone
From the wiki Release page

1) My HP PSC 2210 USB printer doesn't work (worked in 9.2).

I think that is fixed by kernel-2.6.3-4mk, and/or some other package updates recently, someone reported success recently. But, you could just go and search in bugzilla yourself ...

> Mandrake will go bancrupt soon. They need to make
> some funding if they are not to go under.

Unfortunately for you, it seems you'll have to hear from Mandrake still for a while:

MandrakeSoft's First Quarter Results for 2003/2004: +8.4% revenue, +28.9% gross margin, 270,000 profit (http://www.mandrakesoft.com/company/community/man drakesoftnews/news?n=/mandrakesoft/finance/2450)

What version of Mandrake didi he use? What are the exact models of the hardware it didn't detect? USB mice have been supported for ages for example. If you havnet tried Mandrake 9.2 or 10.0 then try again. Windows 95 would probably wouldnt work either, but does that mean that Windows 95 IS TOO HARD?

You may like to also try another distribution. Such as Knoppix. Knoppix has top class hardware support and doesnt need installing.

Windows XP dosent support my hardware, it BSODs when I plug my AGFA easypix camera into my computer, Mandrake pops up a disk on my desktop, and so does all the other Linux distros. My 52 year old mother can't figure out Windows XP, but she loves linux, and she uses it to play her games and online banking!

You may also like to report the non-detected hardware to Mandrake QA.

Here are some more links to back up my claim!

So try and get your Neighbour to try Linux again, tell him that its improving all the time!

good link

There is mkcd, which allows you to create custom Mandrake CDs with the software and options you want.

And mandrake has a customizable auto bootup/install via drakx (mdk's installer system).

Add all of the above, and a little knowledge about SRPMS (if you want true customization), and it works rather well. Also Mandrake's public download edition is 100% FLOSS, so there are no issues about redistributing the software (unless *you* add some non-FLOSS stuff on your own, heh)

Sunny Dubey

MDK 10 is in beta 1. If you are impatient and adventurous you could try this: http://qa.mandrakesoft.com/twiki/bin/view/Main/Man drakeLinux10ReleaseNotes. Note the section on upgrading. Of course, you could just wait for the official release.

Great job, brother!
But I would also add:
SUSE LINUX for i386 Live-Eval
MandrakeMove
or were you fishing only for non-commercial ones (or Knoppix derivatives) or something?

Report to Mandrake about the Camera, They cant possibly try every single camera about there. PLease visit The bug report page about it. You can also try the latest beta of Mandrake to see it if it works out of the box. If it dosent, then report a bug. Part of the Open Source movmenment is that EVERYBODY needs to take part. If you dont report bugs and problems, then dont complain about them!

<Open-Source Software is more secure because there are more people reviewing it.

Pretty bad argument for business. "So our security, and my job, relies on what people do in their spare time?"

No... your security, and your job, relies on what people do on their jobs. People who work for:

IBM

Sun

HP

RedHat

Mandrake

SuSE

Sendmail, Inc.

...and many more companies that support OSS. There was a point in time where OSS was largely written and maintained by people in their spare time; these days, there are people who have jobs that revolve around developing, maintaining and improving OSS.

There's still crud out there, of course. Remember Sturgeon's law: 90% of everything is crud. This goes for both commercial and open source software. You should evaluate OSS the same way you evaluate commercial software: who wrote it, what's their reputation, does it have the features we need, how stable is it, etc.

You wouldn't judge Microsoft's capabilities based on the kind of software that Sun produced, would you? Then why would derive your opinion of Apache, Sendmail, Bind, Linux, XFree86, BSD, KDevelop, Gnome and the like based on the fact that some other, completely seperate OSS project isn't worth dreck?

My suggestion would be nix (no pun intended) the whole linux angle to this. The kids are going to be learning difficult apps, and having to deal with an operating system that functions differently (think stuff like cut/paste) will just be frustrating.

Around 18 years ago, I was a kid and some of the other kids in my school mocked me for using a "hard-to-learn-and-use" IBM computer instead of a Mac or a IIe. There was a not-so-user-friendly operating system called DOS 3.3. You had to edit files without a graphical environment (you think vi is hard, ever try EDLIN?) and had to configure things like PATH$, PROMPT=, FILES=, in files called config.sys and autoexec.bat. Was it harder to learn on this environment than a Mac? Different maybe, but not harder. Kids are willing to try about anything if you don't tell them it's hard beforehand.

I say let them use Linux at the camp and maybe they'll learn a thing or two about something different. You're right about the speed, I think the OS should be loaded on the hard drives. But give the kids a CD distro like Knoppix , PC Linux OS, Suse Live Eval, or Mandrake Move to take home so they can show their parents what they did at camp.

Who knows, maybe one of those kids will like using the OS and will try to develop something that others will want to use.

First it was based off debian

Nope sorry Fedora is NOT the same as Cooker. Ever heard of Rawhide? Who is copying who again?

OK, so show me the list of packages in Rawhide that have been maintained by the community.

Show me the collaborative website that tracked the development of Rawhide.

Show me the public CVS for packaging.

Show me the public CVS (with community members who have commit rights) in the software specific to the distro.

All of this has been in place for Mandrake cooker for more than a year, many have been in place for more than 3 years.

Sorry, Rawhide wasn't anywhere near as community oriented as Cooker was, and Fedora still has a long way to go before they are as open.

The only distro that may be as close to being open to the common user is Debian ... but not quite ...

And yes, I maintain a number of packages in Mandrake main, and lots in contrib ...

Second off Fedora releases go through a LOT of public testing unlike Rawhide and Mandrake Cooker.

There are hundreds of users who run Cooker as a desktop distro, and some even run it on (non-production) servers, plus there is an official 2-month testing cycle. But, you could find all of that out on the (aforementioned) wiki. The only issue is it's still not wide enough testing to catch bugs in software no-one else is shipping by default (or where the distro doesn't have enough resources to debug it, like Gentoo), such as the packet-writing patch, which is now safe for the rest of us *because* Mandrake shipped it in a disto many users used.

Contrast that with "The goal of the Fedora Project is to work with the Linux community to build a complete, general purpose operating system exclusively from free software.". Pretty dam big difference.

If you're comparing Cooker to Fedora releases, what do you compare the Mandrake Community release to? RHEL? At least Mandrake Community is better packaged ... and then there will still be Mandrake Official, and the Corporate Server products for those who need longer support.

Sorry, but you're not comparing apples with apples here ...

The ONLY difference between Fedora and Mandrake's new "community" product is the respective QA of each company and how long the releases are supported.

Yes, with Fedora you get 9 months, with Mandrake Community you get 3 months + whatever the official release gets (at least another 18 months for most releases).

Good Troll, but *Red Hat* is the one innovating here.

Right ...

You can always try a distro like Knoppix or Mandrake Move. They are both based on KDE 3.1 and dont ruin KDE. In fact they enhance it. Since they are magic discs they dont need to be installed, just download, burn, restart and enjoy.

There is always Fedora as well, which is the new Community Version of Red hat linux. They have become more KDE freindly.

Fedora has a testversion for 64bit AMD. The future versions will support AMD 64bit. My dad runs Fedora. Fedora Core 1 for AMD64 test1

Gentoo has been supporting 64bit AMD for a while. But Gentoo is not yet for ordinary endusers. Gentoo Linux AMD64 Development

The article only seems to mention using these distros as a means to introduce oneself easily to Linux. While this is an obvious use of Linux-on-CD type distros, it's by no means the only one. Personally, I've found these things to be fast enough for the difference to be barely perceptible from proper installs.

I've been using Knoppix for a while now and have found it to be really rather awesome. The possible uses are almost limitless and this will improve even more if the ability to write to NTFS volumes is ever introduced.

For example: Recently a friend managed to fuck up his Window XP install beyond repair. I burned him a copy of the ISO and Knoppix sorted it out in minutes. It's blisteringly fast, the hardware auto-detection has to be seen to be believed and the amount of software on that one disc is mindblowing. It's certainly worth keeping a CD copy handy...

However, I'm intrigued as to why MandrakeMove wasn't included in the article. I much prefer to use Knoppix because of its ability to mount hard drives, but MandrakeSoft have been very perceptive in their implementation of USB keys. By carrying around configuration options and personal data on a USB storage device, anyone equipped with a MandrakeMove disc can convert any CD-bootable PC around the world into an equivalent of their home desktop. Many people have predicted that this could become a lot more commonplace in the future where computer users would have to rely a lot less on a home workstation-centric lifestyle. I haven't investigated, but I would guess that persistence can be gained in Knoppix by somehow copying the contents of the ramdrive somewhere more permanent.

I pluged it into my router and opened ports 25 & 110 for it.

Then I added Fetchmail .

And then the neatest thing since sliced bread; TMDA.

4 months now - zero spam, zero lost valid emails.

I didn't have to give up any existing (POP3) accounts, and gained as many as I want to create, because I now have my own email server.

This is easy and cures spam, period.

I'm on DSL, with dynamicly assigned IP, so I use a free DNS service no-ip.com.

This really is simple to do, all were RPM's and I mostly just took whatever default was offered.

I really am New To Nix, so if I could do this, then anyone can.

And it was free.

I am so happy - 40 - 50 spam emails a day, went to ZERO spam. And I still have and use my same email address! Plus some special occasion ones I create as needed (timed experation for usenet, etc.).

And the disclaimer - I have nothing to do with any program mentioned in this post, other then being a happy user of same.

NewToNix (668737)

tehanu is correct; "support period" != "release schedule"

In fact, there was a slashdot story about a month ago detailing Mandrakesoft's support policy, which is lots longer than the release schedule.

Mandrake is selling a bootable-CDROM based distro called Mandrake Move. Your ~/ is stored on a USB Flash drive -- so, you boot the CD w/ the Flash installed and whatever PC your on is your own.... the way you 'left-it'.

Very cool idea. Now, if they could get the whole distro onto one of those card-sized cdroms we'd be set.

Get in from here.

There's more information on the beta in the Mandrake Linux Wiki

Get in from here.

There's more information on the beta in the Mandrake Linux Wiki

Things are really boding well for the linux desktop. I believe one main obstacle is for people to just know about what all can be done with a standard linux distro since there are so many nifty applications (my experience was with KDE and all little utils such as kdirstat).

Here is one example related to the need for evangelism: I have used latex very much, but only now, after killing some time on the net looking at related stuff, did I find information about "texdoc", a sort of a "browser for tex/latex". When I tried to look at texdoc, I found the shell showing texdoc and texdoctk, texdoctk has a GUI and a sort of a comprehensive reference. If it took me so much time to come across such a useful tidbit, imagine how much time it would take for someone that does not even have much interest in exploring. He/she would be stuck with cryptic menus

BTW, Mandrake's 10.0 beta looks impressive (KDE 3.2Pre Linux 2.6.1 (+2.4.25)), and the bittorrent link is at here

S

It seems that people are moving to another Linux distribution if you can read between lines in the following statement:
http://www.mandrakesoft.com/company/press/pr?n=/pr /corporate/2446

Anyway, it's certainly not a surprise: my feeling is that Mandrake is the Linux distribution the most close to Debian in its spirit. It's more friendly and offers more new features though.

This is indeed a good prediction. Bootable CDs, like Knoppix and Mandrake's new MandrakeMove,are just too irresistable, when used with a memory stick. I've tried the Knoppix one, and DAMN, it Just Works, even on a clapped-out old laptop with hardware issues. Lots of different kinds of knowledge workers can put their whole (current) work-lives on a little stick, and then just use whatever machine they can borrow time on. "Bulky" CDs? surely you have room in your briefcase / bag for one thin CD.

In cast you didn't know, Mandrake is working on a version of Linux specifically for clustering, called "Clic", and has already released iso's. I have no idea how functional it is right now, but check out this link for more info.

one of the sales pitches for the powerpack version is:

"9. Compatibility: run Windows and Mandrake Linux on the same computer."

and a picture of vmware running is shown. i would buy it in a minute if it came with a copy of vmware.

but, *sigh*, it doesn't.

how can they plug this as a benefit if it can't do it, or in this case, for only a limited time?

one of the sales pitches for the powerpack version is:

"9. Compatibility: run Windows and Mandrake Linux on the same computer."

and a picture of vmware running is shown. i would buy it in a minute if it came with a copy of vmware.

but, *sigh*, it doesn't.

how can they plug this as a benefit if it can't do it, or in this case, for only a limited time?

If Mandrake is so incompatable why are they LSB certified?

here are financial results of mandrake. Recently discussed on slashdot btw.

Mandrake started their "Mandrake Club" in late 2001. You can read the press release here (December 10th 2001) and a related Slashdot story here. As you know, of course from reading, Mandrake filed for protection at the end of January 2003.

Your just another troll, not even good enough to do a quick search. I applaud Mandrake and their attempt to build a successful and progressive business model. I'm a member since 2001.

is certainly one of the ultimate Geek gifts available, and it has the potential to transform masses into geeks! :-)

http://www.mandrakesoft.com/products/mandrakemove

the OS that it ships with, at least in the article. However, we can all assume that the price is $200 HIGHER for the mandatory XP that'
s preloaded and comes with a "system restore" CD (AKA the "loose all your shit CD")

Also of interst, this little turd of wisdom;
"Microsoft has plans to deliver a 64-bit version of its Windows XP operating system for Athlon 64 desktops. Once that software is available, consumers will be able to make the step up to 64 bits. "

So, only by the grace of M$ are users allowed to "step up to 64 bits"...
How considerate of M$ to bless with their oh so wonderful 0$....

Um, hello.. There is an alternative out there to M$....
Mandrake has a 64bit package NOW
as does
Suse Professional 9.0 64bit
as do several other distros, check them out here,
http://www.distrowatch.com/

...to running Mandrake Linux, 3rd Edition.

For five reasons:

1) It's an excellent book and well written.
2) A big spolight is onto multimedia and office tasks, which is not common in books related to Linux.
3) It gets into Mandrake Linux in depth.
4) It doesn't gets only into Mandrake Linux, because it teaches you how to use a Linux system in general, how to use the command-line, recompile a kernel and so on, so even users of other distributions will enjoy this book.
5) It's just been released so it provides very up-to-date content (600 pages).

The book is described online at:
http://www.mandrakesoft.com/company/press/briefs?n =/mandrakesoft/products/2441

And the complete table of contents can also be downloaded (PDF):
http://images.mandrakesoft.com/mdkv2/products/defi nitiveguide/summary92.pdf

...to running Mandrake Linux, 3rd Edition.

For five reasons:

1) It's an excellent book and well written.
2) A big spolight is onto multimedia and office tasks, which is not common in books related to Linux.
3) It gets into Mandrake Linux in depth.
4) It doesn't gets only into Mandrake Linux, because it teaches you how to use a Linux system in general, how to use the command-line, recompile a kernel and so on, so even users of other distributions will enjoy this book.
5) It's just been released so it provides very up-to-date content (600 pages).

The book is described online at:
http://www.mandrakesoft.com/company/press/briefs?n =/mandrakesoft/products/2441

And the complete table of contents can also be downloaded (PDF):
http://images.mandrakesoft.com/mdkv2/products/defi nitiveguide/summary92.pdf