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Mandrakelinux 10.0 Community is Available
joestar writes "The new 'Mandrake Linux 10.0 Community' release has just been announced. It provides many new features including Linux 2.6.3, MagicDev, KDE 3.2, GNOME 2.4, a new Mandrakeonline service and others. Download ISOs are available through torrent for Club Members and 10.0 developers. A 10.0 DVD is also available at MandrakeStore. This a first step for this new exciting Mandrake, because in May, an Official version will appear, and both versions will officially be supported. Happy downloads!"
Is this 10.0 release more important than the 9.0 release? As 1.0 releases are always more important than 0.9 releases. Hope you can follow my train of thought :)
When anger rises, think of the consequences.
Confucius (551 BC - 479 BC)
What happened about the namechange?
/. a while back saying that MDKsoft had to change their name due to some French wizard cartoon or similar (I didn't RTFA, of course ;)!
We had an article on
Is this now resolved?
David
Ideally we'd have one CD with NetBSD on it, and a guard with an AK-47 present to make sure the user didn't do anything stupid.
The distro I describe is most closely matched in the Linux world by Slackware.
Cretin - a powerful and flexible CD reencoder
I've never used Mandrake, but I am very happy to see a major distribution pick up the 2.6 kernel for regular usage.
Here's my question: Are 2.6 kernel changes going to affect "Joe User"?
Jay | http://oldos.org
Call me a troll, but I think it would really help the OSS community if we focused our efforts on one or two distros, not 10 or 20.
There aren't 10 or 20 distros, there are hundreds, perhaps thousands, and the reason there's so many is because different people want different things, for example Debian is better at running webservers on than Mandrake. If the two distros were spliced together, the package would be much bigger, and most people would only use half of it anyway.
When anger rises, think of the consequences.
Confucius (551 BC - 479 BC)
I will; Mandrake 10.0 is the only distro that I know of that has 2.6 support right out of the box.
Socialism: A feeling of discontent and resentment caused by a desire for the possessions or qualities of another.
With too many ideas, people will just modify a distro to do something better, different, etc.
To ensure a minimum level of functionality and consistency between distributions.
I have long thought that Linux needed an analog to Microsoft's once very-useful MultiMedia PC standard.
I vote for an assisted "roll your own cd distro"
pick the packages by group/subgroup/individually and create install/hw detection scripts and roll an iso image.
There is NO value add to most distrobutions.
Just additional install voodoo scripts.
This is my opinion based on what little I know and understand of the rumors and lies Thanks, Randal
Control-Z, type 'bg'
Gentoo beat Mandrake by a few days, with its 2004.0 release. And yes, I consider this a "major" distribution, folks. It's got some of the best documentation around, too.
Yes, I agree with you, but the problem is, theses 2 or 3 distros wont be the ones you (or I) want. So you will end up forking one of them to address your own needs.
..to check out the new 2.6.3 kernel considering the major changes needed to upgrade from a 2.4 kernel to a 2.6 kernel if you've compiled your Linux system from source like I have.
Find a job you like and you will never work a day in your life.
Oh fuck off with your stomped-on redhat distro. LOTS of people use Mandrake. And more will as time goes on.
Talk about money grubbing, look at Redhat and their "Well, we're not making money at this, so we're going to spit on everyone who made us what we are, the distro that got us going." I washed my hands of Redhat when I heard their greedy statements. Fedora is a fucking toy compared to Mandrake. Redhat's shitty GUI replacements for things like LinuxConf suck ass. Redhat fucked the open source community and I (and many others out there) refuse to use their shit after that.
I started on Redhat, but found Mandrake years ago, and haven't seen anything that beats it for usability and adherence to Linux and open source traditions.
going to be made available? 1 week? 2 weeks?
-- D3X
NeoX3.com: The One Site for Free Adult Entertainment
Why? The various distros exist because different people have different needs and different ideas about the way things work. If all those people tried to focus on one or two distros, all they'd do is disagree, meaning no progress would be made, and they'd probably just end up forking.
Another way to look at it is from a project management standpoint: adding new bodies to a project does not mean the project will progress faster or improve. In fact, more bodies can actually *decrease* productivity. So, "focusing" all that effort into just one or two projects may not be an effective way to make use of resources.
Lastly, don't forget, competition is a key to innovation. Having various distros competing for market share means they'll compete, and cooperate, meaing a better result for everyone. How can this be bad?
I still prefer Nightshade to Mandrake Root.
Check out the best P2P sharing website: MEDIACHEST.COM
I agree, let's make it 2 Disk XWindows and Slackware only (since those are the distros I use).
Lol, one or two! Sir would you like embedded or full linux with your PC?
Thanks for the laugh.
I believe Gentoo 2004a does. Before that, it was as easy as "emerge development-sources", configure, build, copy to "/boot", and configure grub.
Excellent idea. I presume I get to choose which two, so I'll go for Gentoo and Mandrake. Shall I tell Redhat they've got to close down, or will you?
Igor Presnyakov stole my hat
Having many distros is a -strength- of linux, not a hinderance.
.rpm, .deb. .tgz... just one type)
We don't need less distros, we need some idea of continuity between them using standards, such as:
-Standard packaging system (no more
-Standard directory structure
There are some others, but these are the major two. More distros = good, but lets try to package them all similarly, please!
Jay | http://oldos.org
One of the best things about the new Mandrake (to me, anyway) is that it's the first fully supported FREE distro that has Samba 3 built into it. In the past, Samba 3 was available for Mandrake, but support for it was flaky. Sure, you could fork out $1000 or more for Red Hat Enterprise, but why? Even SuSE 9.0 had Samba 2.2.x in it. While I'm sure there are things that need to be refined and will be fixed in the "Official" version, it's a great way for us Windows converts to get our feet wet with the new Samba, instead of learning the old way and having to change our approach with the major overhaul in version 3.
Just my 2 cents....
I think it does help having multiple distros (at least more than one or two). The reasons are that some distros are conservative (e.g. Redhat does not have ntfs enabled by default, has its own bluecurve, and does not have media player related stuff -- out of these, the ntfs is a biggie for dual boot systems). Likewise, some distros have more support for bleeding edge devices (e.g. SATA support on Mandrake 9.2 RC was available but not on Fedora beta). I will also state the obvious example of Redhat/Fedora stuff.
Where can we draw the line? In my opinion 100/1000 distros is unimaginable. 10 is not that bad a number.
S
And you do have to remember that Mandrake is the largest distro in use in North America. AFAIK, SuSE's the biggest in Europe, and TurboLinux is the largest in Asia.
Let's let the free market determine if there are too many distributions. If we only need a few, Mandrake would be one of them anyway.
On the other hand, the UN should step in and limit the number of options when buying toothpaste. That decision has become mindboggling.
Seems awfully fast for Mandrake to have already included the 3.2.1 fixes (multimegabyte).
This is one of the reasons I like Debian, even if I have to wait longer for some (major) things than bloody edged distros like Gentoo.
Because you know you do.
By "out of the box", of course, I mean a clean install, not upgrading an existing kernel.
I'm not that new to linux, but i don't use it for work and so far I have allways installed it on test systems, allways starting fresh, trying a distro here, another there.
Eventually I'll have a stable system, with drivers for custom hardware (802.11 USB card), a fine-tuned XFree86.config, shell config scripts, the list goes on.
In this scenario, how most distros handle the update process? Will I have to strart from scratch again, or is it mostly painless?
Mandrake is a leading distribution. Just look at http://www.distrowatch.com/ and look at the page hit ranking.
About two weeks ago I decided to try and install Linux on my old K6-2 450mhz machine gathering dust in the basement. A friend of mine gave me a few cd's that had something called 'Mandrake' on it.
He said "This is supposed to be the most user-friendly 'distro' out there. Give it a try."
So with trepidation about wiping out my beloved win98se install on the old machine, I jumped right in.
On firing up the install disk, the Man-drake installer asked me if I wanted to remove the win98se partition that already existed. After pondering this for several minutes I though, 'what the hell, I can always reinstall it!' So I let it fly.
After what seemed like 45 minutes of swapping cd's in-and-out of the drive, the man-drake (isn't that some sort of bird?) installer ask me what I wanted to use this linux machine for. So many choices! games, office, mail server, web server, about 2 dozen choices flooded my screen. This is madness! So after carefully considerating my options
I decided to choose them all! I would be a Linux power-user to end all linux power-users!
So after this decision was made I waited. And waited. And waited. During this I started to wonder. My Windows XP Home intallation on my other Peecee didn't ask me thse kind of questions, and it easily has the all the abilities that man-drake advertised to have. After all, I paid for WinXP Home. Sigh, I guess this it the price one pays
for being part of the linux elite.
Approximately 50 mintues later I get another prompt from the man-drake installer asking me what kind of GUI I wanted to use, KDE or GNOME. Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice shame on me! I selected both and let it fly.
After only about 20 mintues this time it appeared the install was completed. The mandrake installer told me it was going to reboot and then I would revel in Linux goodness. I waited with baited breath while the reboot churned away, eagerly waiting the opportuntity to use the KDE/GNOME interface. Page after page of command line
stuff flew by my screen, seeming to get faster and faster as the time of my linux deliverance approached. Then, the screen flashed black (kinda like those scenes from the movie Wargames). I gasped and was presented with something like this:
bsh: blah/blah/blah/ ____
What the hell was this? Wasn't this man-drake linux supposed to be user friendly? Instead of the friendly confines of a WinXP like GUI instead I was given an ugly DOS like prompt, which looked supiciously like the TRS-80 system I first learned BASIC on in high school. Is this all the farther the great open-source movement has progressed?
After serveral minutes of sobbing and knashing of teeth, I came to a decision. All the linux fags out there were not going to defeat me! They were not going to cry "Bend over WinXP boy, you're going to take linux OUR WAY and like it!".
I quickly found my old musty copy of 'Unix in a Nutshell' from my college days and got to work. In a few hours I found out how to start the KDE GUI. This made life so much easier. After several days I was able to get the machine's 14.4 internal modem working with man-drake and connected to the internet, using a browser called Mozilla. Where oh where were the glorious pop-ups that appeared as I was surfing porn sites? Those bastards!
After several more days I was starting to feel somewhat comfortable. Using something called Gimp to manipulate my growing collection of adult images was becoming a habit. And because I was ashamed to let my friends and neighbors know I was using a gasp! free operating system like mandrake, I kept the pee-cee in the basement. Now my girlfriend things the sounds emanating from below are me just woodworking or lifting weights. I guess linux has freed me after all!
Download ISOs are available through torrent for Club Members
Any torrents for non-club members?
Will there be a download version of the DVD, or some way to build it on a non-Linux-but-still-nixish system? It would be a lot more convenient if I could hand people a single bootable DVD instead of a stack of CDs.
From: http://www.mandrakelinux.com/en/10.0/100PR.php3 Server deployments also benefit from interoperability with MS-Windows(R) systems thanks to enhanced support of Windows' Logical Disk Manager and new read/write NTFS support. Last time i checked, the NTFS write support was not mature enough to be used fulltime. Has anyone used this? Is the write support completely reliable? This is an imporatant issue, because it had the unfortunate tendancy of causing the windows install to get screwed. (sometimes, not all times) Thugh of you who have used write support successfully, please comment.
Do they still develop for PPC? It seems like all we get is gentoo these days.
Troll!!! ;-) To an extent you are right, part of Apples and Microsofts success is tight control of how things work. One of my arguments is needing to provide uniformity for users and developers. The fringe elements will always be there for those that want them, nobody is stopping you from running fvwm2 if you want, but common interfaces and ways of doing things help drive acceptance.
...does joe user even know what the word kernel means other than that guy that makes chicken or those worthless bastards at the bottom of the popcorn bag that didn't pop?
Thanks.
What I would like to know is have they provided and easy upgrade (ie automagicly) from 2.4 lvm1 to 2.6 lvm2?
man plus drake = Man Drake.
Don't blame Durga. I voted for Centauri.
"Call me a troll..."
Done. (or rather: modded you one).
I'm happy to please users who start - or include - in their posts sentences like: "Mod me down if you wish, but..."; "Call me a troll, but..."
You're welcome.
> We had an article on /. a while back saying that MDKsoft had to change their name ...
#1: What's a 187?
#2: I don't know.
Computer: Murder, Death, Kill. Murder, Death, Kill.
Stallone can be their spokesman. Killing the competition since 1998.
I agree 100%. Shotgun marketing has been proven time and time again to net a paltry 1% of it's targeted market. A total waste of talent, if you ask me. What really gets me is that the Linux community actually thinks its productive or even necessary to keep rehashing the same territory over and over again. Seriously, folks, I'm not trolling, I'm just wondering why there needs to be so many distros? It's not like one distro really fulfils a need that the others don't address. I understand a minimal distro is appropriate for a hardware router or what not, but seriously, isn't 100+ distros just plain excessive? I'm just curious about the Linux community's justification for such a massive amount of distros.
And you do have to remember that Mandrake is the largest distro in use in North America.
It is? I would have assumed Red Hat has that honour. Of course, usage statistics often have large error margins - not in the commercial world, where there at least is the number of sales as a base, and not in the open-source world where the number of downloads is also relevant but cannot effectively be measured. (And of course, neither sales nor downloads actually mean that the product is in use...)
Switch back to Slashdot's D1 system.
If there's 1 or 2 then one would be commercial, leaving a choice of free or not free. Currently I have a choice of one or two decent free distros, Debian, Gentoo, Slackware etc.. each have their own merits.
Many distros have their own agenda and uses, not to mention quite a few of them are based on others.
Peoplesoft. That name just cracks me up. People....soft. Sounds like another Viagra ad.
http://www.rubyx.org
Everything is a package, including the kernel. You specify the list of packages you want and it builds a system for you (and it can create an iso image as well).
Rubyx is much more flexible than other similar approaches: Your aren't limited to a Linux kernel for example, you could choose to use a different (gasp!) kernel like FreeBSD, Hurd or Darwin to run your system.
> Mandrake will go bancrupt soon. They need to make
n drakesoftnews/news?n=/mandrakesoft/finance/2450)
> some funding if they are not to go under.
Unfortunately for you, it seems you'll have to hear from Mandrake still for a while:
MandrakeSoft's First Quarter Results for 2003/2004: +8.4% revenue, +28.9% gross margin, 270,000 profit (http://www.mandrakesoft.com/company/community/ma
Will they have an ISO with x86-64 support for my Athlon 64? If I'm making the jump to kernel 2.6, it might also be a good time to jump to native 64 bit mode..
hm...Mandrake already declared bankruptcy, and if you've been reading anything, they are finally making money again and the court has given them an extension. keep up on the news, man...
The MDK being the linux based OS of MandrakeSoft and in its tenth iterations, it was even planned to be named:
GNU/Linux MS OS X
Then someone said:
"maybe the ridiculous trial with the wizard is enough?"
I've been using Mandrake Cooker for a few weeks now, and I think kernel 2.6 + kde 3.2 is awesome. My computer feels way faster. There are some problems (I haven't updated in a few days, so these may have gotten fixed):
1) My HP PSC 2210 USB printer doesn't work (worked in 9.2).
2) My wife's Sony Vaio has a problem loading the agpgart module on bootup. When I get to the console, I modprobe agpgart and startx, and everything's fine (again, worked in 9.2).
3) OpenOffice hasn't made any advances in the last couple months (still at 1.1). Not Mandrake's fault, I realize, just a general complaint. OpenOffice is still soooooo slow.
Anyone know how cooker relates to this version? I'm assuming this is just a snapshot of cooker.
"Now gluttony and exploitation serves eight!" - TV's Frank
Translation: I'm a cheap bastard who won't pay for anything. I buy my hardware at the salvation army and dammit, it runs great! I need nothing from no one! And my army, who just like me needs nothing from no one, is going to take over the world with our cheap ass software and hardware! We're going to win against a multi-billion dollar company with some of the deepest roots in every business and markets and politics in America! Muahahaha!
Fedora Core 2 Test 1 has 2.6 support out of the "box".
http://www.archive.org/details/ThePowerOfNightmares
slackware 9.1 had 2.6 "support" out of the box. you simply had to download the 2.6.x kernel and compile.
funny how slackware is always ignored yet it's the oldest distro that is still alive.
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
Lastly, don't forget, competition is a key to innovation. Having various distros competing for market share means they'll compete, and cooperate, meaing a better result for everyone. How can this be bad?
One would think, but for the most part I haven't really noticed that in the Linux community. Each distro seems to focus all their effort into their own implementation of the basic "distro toolset" (Installer, disk partitioning, system management, control panel, etc.) I think it would benefit the community as a whole to be able to take these components and be able to add them to the distro of your choice. For example, one thing I really love about Mandrake is the graphical disk utility, DiskDrake. I think it beats the pants off everything else out there for Linux. Is it possible to get this running easily on another distribution? Doubtful.
I applaud the work that the Debian (or was it Progeny) team has done to try using Red Hat's Anaconda installer system to install Debian. I hope to see more projects like this in the future.
The distributions that were selling CDs were never particularly nice to upgrade, as that cut into their business model of selling more CD distributions. However you could usually just buy the newer CD, then stick it in and hit 'upgrade' and be done with it.
The more online distributions like Debian and Gentoo have always been much better at this. You simply set up the upgrader to point at the repository you want. Then there are some commands for doing various things that you would want to do in reguards to upgrading.
For instance on Debian you use 'apt-get update' and it would update it's list of packages. 'apt-get upgrade' would just transparently upgrade everything for you. 'apt-get install pkg' would install a new package. Then there were various wrappers for making these easier to use. For instance you set it up so that 'apt-get update;apt-get upgrade' would simply bring you up to date every night while you slept. Or you could use a nice graphical front end like Synaptic for browsing up new packages and replacing all those hard command line options with a simple 'punish me' button. You could also do funky things like Lindows where you put stubs in your menu to automatically 'apt-get install pkg' whenever you tried to run a program there that wasn't actually installed yet.
The other nice feature of the online distributions is the lack of dependency hell. If the package you want is in the repository then all of it's dependencies should be also and you don't have to run around looking for all of the correct sub-packages to make things work.
It's been interesting to see the big CD distributions move towards this online distribution model. It looks like the convenience it provides is making it a market necessity if you want to remain competitive.
I wanna call it, "Drake! We. Are. LEAVING!"
as shown by mandrakeusers.org, yes, a lot of people both use and support mandrake linux. the "club" is not money grubbing, Mandrake is a business and as such has to run as one. They have to make money to stay afloat, that's how businesses work. Just because you're a cheap bastard who wants his/her OS for free doesn't make it wrong to charge for an OS. Besides, Mandrake WILL release ISO's for FREE download, but they are being KIND to those who support them and giving them PERKS. Gee, I think that's a good business myself...
Cheap-ass penny-pinching motha fucka.
but then you'll sound like all those dummies who call it OS 'ECKS'.. I'm not sure, but I don't think the Romans pronounced the numerals as letters..
Are you suggesting that we call it Mac OS Decem?
Is this a sigs-optional kind of place? 'Cause I am totally down with that if you know what I mean.
Judging on the quality of the final release for 9.2 after 3 RC's and the fact that this is the new "non-official-ala-fedora" release, I'm kinda skeptical on the quality of it. In fact, judging from the comments I read on RC1, THAT release was probably more like the last beta and THIS one is probably more like a release candidate. The one people want is going to be the "official" version in May, I think.
Chris
Please, some posts deserve to be modded 5+
Can Slashdot moderators stretch the scale little bit?
Mandrake has in a recent survey(~Nov 2003) some 60% market share in the UK. This survey was perhaps not the most scientific, I think it was for readers of Linux Format or similar. However it does indicate how popular the distro is.
With 10 now comming out, I think it will maintain it.
I still dont know anyone using Fedora, while everyone I know uses MDK.
My other Sig is very funny.
I can't install Linux on my PC because I am using an SATA drive. Upgrading the 2.4 kernel isn't an option since I can't even install the 2.4 kernel to begin with.
Socialism: A feeling of discontent and resentment caused by a desire for the possessions or qualities of another.
Of of the box means it's in the fucking box.
Whether you're joking or not, there are Linux geeks who are seriously like this.
I love the OS, but come fucking on.
Linux: Boomstick Edition.
ALSA version 1.0.2c (in 2.6.3) OSS emulation layer has all sorts of problems. Zero fragment flooding and major USB audio problems just to name two. Much better to stick with 0.9.7 (in 2.6.2) till the ALSA folks get this straightened out.
IMO it is totally inexcusable for a desktop Linux distro to even think of shipping 2.6.3 !
Does it have built in SATA support? Because that's what's killing me now...the 2.6 kernel support for certain controllers is fairly sketchy. I'm thinking Silicon Image here...
How so? Any stats? Seriously, I would think that depends on hardware more than anything else (assuming you're running Apache).
I think some ungrateful Linux users dwell on Red Hat going corporate while ignoring how much good it did for Linux. For a lot of people, Red Hat was their first introduction to Linux. It was a distribution widely trusted by universities and schools who were the early adopters of Linux. It was one of the first that had the capacity to act as a "middleman," someone who could take the fall if the system's broke. Large companies like middlemen and liked the technical support Red Hat offered so they weren't giving up Windows and walking into the fog of Linux without a helping hand.
I would not go insofar as to say Red Hat made Linux a household name, but it certainly helped get us on the map. And, more importantly, it told the non-techheads (you know, 90% of users) that - yes Virginia, there is an alternative to Windows.
What about those who call it mah-koh'-six? :-P It rolls off the tongue, plus it sounds more like a real Unix (which it is).
Reminds me of when a classmate of mine in school first saw the Mac OS 7.5.3 startup screen (which as late as 7.5.0 had just been "Welcome to Macintosh"). "Oh, it's Make-ohs!" (rhymes with a certain brand of fake meat salad topping).
Actually, FreeBSD is the oldest distro alive, you clueless Linux zealot. Your precious "cutting-edge" slackware was outdated 20 years ago. Moron.
If the eventual goal is to beat Microsoft on the desktop, the parent is right. 1 or 2 Distros that do everything well is better than 100 that each do one or two things *very* well.
Joe User wants his OS to do everything well and intuitively, not just one or two things.
considering the major changes needed to upgrade from a 2.4 kernel to a 2.6 kernel
Configuring, compiling, and installing a 2.6 kernel is simple. Just follow the README instructions. The hardest part is figuring out how to configure lilo/grub/whatever boot loader since every frickin distro seems to want to do things differently!
Why do you think that Fedora has Mandrake beat on the desktop? Mandrake has everything you'd ever need: most of the open-source programs out there, great configuration utilities, and a great rpm setup using their urpmi (similar to Debian's apt-get).
The club is only "necessary" if you want to get the releases right now and get some other proprietary software (much of which you can download yourself - they just offer it in an easy-to-use format). I'm not a member of the club (I'm poor right now), and yet I'm able to get the ISOs for free a few weeks after they're released to the club.
You do realize that companies do need to make money. Based on my last experience with RedHat 9, I won't be trying Fedora for quite a while. I was able to configure everything much more easily in Mandrake than I was in RedHat.
Mandrake has contributed a great set of software, and if you'd actually try version 9.0 and up, you'd agree it has a great chance of becoming popular with Grandma. (versions 7 & 8 were good, too, but not good enough for Grandma)
I started on Mandrake, and I haven't seen a Linux distribution that is anything close to being as buggy as Mandrake. Don't get me wrong however, despite the fact that there are things about Mandrake that would turn off your average linux user, Mandrake was the painless conversion distribution that got me off of my Windows seat and into the Linux luxury chair. However, having the random app/mandrake utility crash on a fairly regular basis has since caused me to switch to Slackware, which is revered for its stability.
Mandrake isn't bad, and I would recommend it to the person who is converting from Windows, but it's not the cream of the crop either.
Have they announced what their new corporate name will be since they lost the lawsuit over the "Mandrake" name?
I don't mean to be overly critical of you...and I like Mandrake. But...
C'mon. seriously. Nothing is every bug free. That's just insane. Nothing, especially something as complicated as an ENTIRE OPERATING SYSTEM, is every completely, 100% bug free. That's just rediculous.
Part of the problem MDK has been having, and that their new release system is trying to fix, is that they have a substantially large user/tester ratio. In other words, too many users for the people who are willing to test. A release can go through forty betas and 10 RC's, and fix ALL reported bugs. But without good testers, it will ship and millions of bugs will be found because there wasn't a good variance of testers.
People expect their software to "just work". But without a lot of testing in a million configurations (especially as current and fast advancing as Mandrake is) that's difficult. Probably impossible.
Who is this Anonymous Coward character, how does he post so much, and why is he always such a whore?
There ARE NO "Joe Average" linux users. They are all geeks.
That easy, huh? :)
If you had nuts on your chin, would they be chin nuts?
If we were to somehow shut down all the projects and only let the top three survive in the name of "concentrating efforts"...then we wouldn't be allowing users to do whatever they want with their software.
It doesn't need justification. It's the way it is, there's nothing to be done about it, and it's distro-makers' right. If they want to customize their Os for their needs, and publish it online in case other people happen to like the same things -- how does that harm anyone?
I'll reply, rather than mod you down, because I want to contribute elsewhere in this discussion. If you're a Slackware user then you probably know enough to handle that. But Mandrake is a different animal altogether -- it is intended for less advanced users. And I see nothing wrong with that; after all, everybody needs to start somewhere. Mandrake was my first X11-based distribution {though I'd been tinkering about on the command line with Debian for some time} so I'll admit to a liking for it :)
Slackware is more a geek's distro, whereas Mandrake is pitched more at n00bz. Slackware is good for customising {if I was being unkind, I'd say you have to customise it to make it usable} and runs well on less powerful systems; whereas Mandrake is purposely designed so that you can just slot it in and go, but it needs a fast machine to show off what it can do.
The sort of person who installs Slackware is probably an old hand with several years' Linux experience; more likely to be mellower and less outspoken than the first-timer. Mandrake is a good choice for a beginner, and it has a very loyal and vocal band of followers.
But just because Mandrake is aimed at the newcomer, it is no less powerful a distribution -- and it doesn't compromise on security. In its own way, it's a very hardcore distribution {there's one for the apostrophe nazis}: everything in it is open-source {unlike some distributions *cough* SUSE *cough*} and there is a real emphasis on community members helping one another with their problems.
Je fume. Tu fumes. Nous fûmes!
# urpmi mklivecd
... and I haven't tested it on 10.0 ... it will most likely need an update for a 2.6 kernel ...).
...).
# mklivecd livecd.iso
(you should also read the --help of mklivecd
See http://livecd.berlios.de to see some examples of live CDs people have made (many more have been made than those listed
You seem to have missed my first point.
"Each distro seems to focus all their effort into their own implementation of the basic "distro toolset" (Installer, disk partitioning, system management, control panel, etc.)"
Sure. But maybe the users of those distros have different needs. Or the distro developers have different ideas about how things should be done. For example, you mention DiskDrake. You think it "beats the pants off everything else out there for Linux". Well, that's your opinion. But what if I prefer parted? Or fdisk? If the distro developers all worked on the same toolset they'd have to compromise on features, UI, etc, in order to reach a consensus. How is this better than having two separate tools which each do their job well?
As for your statement that it's "doubtful" that you could "get [DiskDrake] running easily on another distribution", you should probably back that up. It's just an application, after all. So what's stopping another distro from using it if they feel it fits their needs?
Do you think there is any chance the Radeon 9800 will be supported in a decent fashion? I don't even care about 3D performance (that's for my games OS), but having a resolution greater than 800x600 would be _greatly_ appreciated...
I don't trust the French. Too sneaky.
We don't need less distros, we need some idea of continuity between them using standards, such as: .rpm, .deb. .tgz... just one type)
-Standard packaging system (no more
-Standard directory structure
Exactly! As an amateur sysadmin, this type of thing is very frustrating. It's nice when there is some kind of tool you can use to install programs. For instance, YaST on SuSE provides a great GUI for installing and updating things. The problem is when you want to get something bleeding edge, or something for which a package for your distro/release does not exist. Then you're left with compiling from source. Now, I don't mind compiling from source because compiling from source is inherently cool, but `make install' doesn't know where it should put the files. So I have to hunt around and try to pass the appropriate flags to `./configure'. Sometimes this works fine, and other times I am left with a broken program.
The point being that a standard directory structure and packaging system would save me a lot of time. It would save everyone a lot of time.
Magnatune: Quality (DRM-free) MP3/FLAC/
Too bad they're releasing with Gnome 2.4 as 2.6 is scheduled for release about March 22.
- new (innovative) file selector
- new spatial nautilus + faster
- click on a device to mount its filesystem and open a window automatically
- other cool stuff
It's not as if Gnome's release schedule is a secret. Good thing I use that crappy distro called Gentoo that's only used by people who can't use their computer during compiling (because multi-tasking doesn't work in Linux of course, particularly with 2.6 kernels) because I've been trying Gnome in the 2.5.x developer series and it's cool.
Of course, if you like the pimped up NOS/wing/racing stripes on a Honda Civic look and "customizability" of KDE... enjoy.
Call me a troll...
'kay. You're a troll.
And wrong.
1)Remove all media for your old release
...)
...)
... but if you don't you will most likely at least want to restart your window manager ..).
...
# urpmi.removemedia -a
(beware, -a removes all media
2)Add media for your new release. If that's the CDs, insert disk one and do
# urpmi.addmedia --distrib 10.0-cd removable:///mnt/cdrom
3)Update urpmi (in future this won't be necessary, the urpmi in 10.0 will automatically update itself if it sees there is an update, and then restart
# urpmi urpmi
4)Upgrade everything else
# urpmi --auto-select
5)Choose a kernel
# urpmi kernel
6)Reboot
# reboot
(only if you need to
So, in 10.0 (or if you're running a beta or rc or cooker), it about a 3 or 4 step process - new/update media; urpmi --auto-select;urpmi kernel
Note that if you don't use the installer, some things are not done for you, so read the release notes
And if you only have one major distro, then it changes license (Xfree86) then we're all buggered
sorry ...
"For example, one thing I really love about Mandrake is the graphical disk utility, DiskDrake."
Luxury! We used to dream of having graphical disk utility! We used to wake up at the crack of dawn and spend 12 hours a day using commandline!
Luxury! We used to dreeeeeeeeeeeam of being able to use commandline! We had to get up an hour before the crack of dawn, and spend 27 hours a day spinning harddisk manually reading and writing data to disk with magnets!
Luxury! We used to dream of spinning harddisk manually reading and writing data to disk with magnets! We had to get up the day before make abacus with lentils and do calculations that way!
Luxury! We used to dream of using abacus! We used to have to wake up a week before the crack of dawn of the present day and count things out on finger and toes!
Luxury! We used to dream of counting things out on fingers and toes! We used to have to wake up before the big bang, wait for the bang, wait to climb out of the primordial ooze, wait to develop opposable thumbs and a numerical system!
Luxury!....
Here it is, folks, the Mandrakelinux 10.0 Community is available immediately to club members and later the 3 first CDs of the Mandrakelinux 10.0 Community Download Edition will be available to everyone, but right now we would like to thank all our supporters, club members and contributors, with this exclusive access.
Check the bittorrent page to download the ISOs.
All the club members have access to the Mandrakelinux 10.0 Community Download Edition 4 CDs set.
Silver and above members have access to the Mandrakelinux 10.0 Community Powerpack Edition 5 CDs set.
Moreover a Mandrakelinux 10.0 Community DVD Edition is available at Mandrakestore
The race isn't always to the swift... but that's the way to bet!
Since when is begging for money a business plan?
Just because you disagree doesn't make it offtopic or flamebait.
I like my redhat/fedora distro's, but I've been trying for the past couple of evenings to get Fedora Core 2 development installed on my x86-64.. The real issue is support of SATA drives, which Fedora core1 test 1 for AMD64 doesn't provide (it's a 2.4.x kernel). the daily development build will probably work (but I gotta update my boot cd every time they update, talk about a PITA).
The other issue is lack of RAID SATA support, as it just sees the individual drives and not the raid. This I can live with, I would like an actual cd distro that supports sata and x86-64 w/out this huge hassle, but I don't know that I care to switch distros, but I'm willing to consider it if someone can suggest a good x86-64 distro that actually supports sata drives.
The question is: Will SCO sue me for downloading or do I actually have to be running it to get sued?
Can't the Slashcoders rig it so that you can't even post AC in a discussion you have been moderating? IMHO, it's a dirty trick. Either you want to say something meaningful, or you want to throw your weight around with mod points. You can't eat your cake and still have it.
Why have you moderated this off-topic? Mandrake users help one another out, after all. They even admitted it was off-topic. Life's too short to mod down short posts.
Je fume. Tu fumes. Nous fûmes!
Mandrake is the best desktop distro I have encountered. The installer is tight and hardware support is excellent. I installed 9.2 and everything worked even my cheap TV Tuner card. KDE ran perfect. I run debian on my servers and love love it for that but it just doesn't compete on the desktop. People shouldn't have to fiddle and diddle for three hours just do get their video card to work under X. I use a computer to accomplish work. Why the hell should I waste time getting it to work?
I'd imagine 10.0 will be a step even further in the right direction. Mandrake is leading the way in the desktop linux environment. This is good for other distros because it raises the bar.
Ask Linus. It may be a side effect but it ain't the goal. The goal is software freedom. Let people choose Linux if they want to because of frustration. Why try to convert people? What a waste of time.
Sell Linux the way the Toyota dealership sells cars. There it is. We know it's better. Take it or leave it. We can haggle a bit on price but there's not much else to say.
Seriously - there should be an immortal archive of Slashdot wit...and Gentoo slagging, of course ;P
This wasn't just plain terrible, this was fancy terrible. This was terrible with raisins in it. - Dorothy Parker
As you were complaining about OOo speed ( I assume boot up) I thought I'd share this that I found on a newsgroup the other day. "make sure OOo is not running, open your favourite file manager and navigate to ~/openoffice/user/psprint and delete the pspfontcache file. Now start up OOo and immediately shut it down again. You should see a new pspfontcache file. Make this file read-only, either using your file manager or with the command line: chmod -w ~/openoffice/user/psprint/pspfontcache" Hope this helps Neil
"Welcome to Hell - Here's your copy of Windows"
If you want what is on the dvd (everything) just download the whole fscking cooker tree and burn it to a dvd. You guys are so resourceful sometimes, I'd be surprised to see you code your way out of a cardboard box.
Call me a troll, but I think it would really help the automotive industry if there was only one or two manufacturers, not 10 or 20.
:wq
"and they'd probably just end up forking."
well, at least they kissed and made up....
sorry, really....
HOWEVER, some users experience problems with CD-RW and DVD Writers using the new IDE/ATAPI driver interface (i.e., running without the old 2.4.x IDE/SCSI emulation). Mr. Torvalds has said that IDE/SCSI is a really bad hack, but Mr. Schilling (author of cdrecord) has said that SCSI emulation is a good way to handle the large number of new commands/responses introduced by this hardware. Mandrake-10 uses a Mandrake-enhanced version of cdrecord to work with IDE/SCSI. (DON'T bother Mr. Schilling about issues with cdrecord in MDK-10!)
Bottom line is,my CD-RW doesn't work under MDK 10.0-RC1, and your Writer (CD-RW or DVD) might have problems under 10.0. Maybe my CD-RW will work under today's released version, but some of the bugs (in Mandrake bugzilla) are in "WorksForMe" and "WaitForInfo", not yet proven to be fixed to the satisfaction of the original bug reporters. Perhaps my problem is related to cdrdao support the IDE/ATAPI interface. I've been trying to write ISO's (which definitely use cdrdao) and to scribble files onto blank CD-RWs, which might need cdrdao to do the formatting.
It seems that most people, including MDK developers, are not having ANY problems with their writers, but a few of us have been having trouble.
and I hope fedora has provided security updates for the minor security hole in releases prior to 3.0.2.
... not for a serious deployment.
Mandrake 9.2 shipped with 3.0.0 in contrib (because we knew it wasn't going to be production-ready).
And, since contrib is unsupported, there aren't official updates, but there are unofficial ones on the samba mirrors, provided by the Mandrake maintainer (me).
You really don't want to run 3.0.0
DebDrake.
The name says it all. Debian-style package management for Mandrake. I like apt-get, especially in conjunction with the kpackage front end. I also like Mandrake's installer {though I can put up with Debian's command line interface}.
I think the two would go very well together, but I acknowledge that grafting the one onto the other won't be an easy task as Mandrake is rpm-based and well-established.
If I thought I had the time to devote to it, I'd have a go myself.
Je fume. Tu fumes. Nous fûmes!
... considering samba3-3.0.0-2mdk shipped with contribs for 9.2 ...
Your point?
Nah, that would suck. One of the best parts of Slashdot is the humour. I like finding posts with witty comments that have been overlooked and giving them a Funny mod. But sometimes, I also have something meaningful (or funny, or insightful) to add to the conversation as well. It already sucks that I have to post it as AC. To not be able to post it at all would double-suck.
Hey kids, there's only 5 days left 'til Yak Shaving Day!
I agree with what you are saying. What I'm about to say is not a contradiction, I am simply explaining why I use Mandrake.
By most counts, I'm a power Linux user. I first installed Linux on a system back in 1994. I've contributed a kernel patch. I have installed at least five distributions, two of which are Gentoo and Linux From Scratch.
In the end, both for my home computer and my work computer (where I develop Linux and Windows software), I settled for Mandrake. I got tired of having to deal with config files and having to install drivers when I plug in new hardware. Mandrake handles this all pretty seemlessly for me, moreso in fact than Windows does. These days (though this was less true in the past), the software packaged with Mandrake is fairly recent and quite stable. That said, I did install KDevelop 3.0.1 from source rather than from Mandrake's packages.
I still run Debian for my email/web server at home. In fact, I really like Debian. Its dependency resolution still has everything else beaten. But it doesn't offer such features as the Mandrake Control Center and other such happy Mandrake tools. As a result, I'm quite happy with my Mandrake installations, at least for desktop and workstation systems.
A friend of mine pointed out that he switched operating systems (to OS X, in his case) because he wants something that just works. He doesn't want to spend time reformatting, reinstalling, and dealing with configuration files, at least no more than is absolutely necessary. I find Mandrake offers me this now and that is why I use it.
Oceania has always been at war with Eastasia.
I'm using Fedora Core 1, that's an 2.4 distro, with a single SATA drive using the Intel ICH5 SATA chipset. Works perfectly. On the other hand, even slightly older distros like RH9 will not work.
Quite a while. I take it you've never read the Bible. =)
As with 9.2, they include 3d accel ati radeon drivers on a *7* cd "poweuser" pack that you must *buy*: -Additional drivers for NVIDIA-based and ATI videocards are available in Mandrakelinux packs and Mandrakeclub ISO images Now, call me crazy, but I really think that something as important as a video driver should be included on the main cds, and shouldn't be sold separately. I guess it is a propietary kind of issue, so it isn't really mandrake's fault, but why should I pay for drivers for a card I obviously bought? I realize I can download them from ati's site, but a new linux user (the primary target of this distro) is going to have mayor problems with that. For one, since the kernel source isn't included(at least in 9.2), and it's required to compile the drivers, you need an additional 50mb download. I had to find it and download it by hand, since the particular version of the kernel that mdk 9.2 came with, wasn't to be found on the update ftp sites. Additional problems with agp support and shaky tv-out presented then. Nonetheless, I'm expecting this release, if only for improved stability and hardware support.
OOo 1.1.1rc was just released yesterday (3/3). Boot time is slightly quicker. Haven't played around w/ it too much to see if there are any other performance tweeks, but seems to perform better. I'm currently running Mandrake 9.2 w/ KDE 3.1 and I'm excited to see how Mandrake 10 is...heard lots of good about it. 8)
Did you write that [very amusing] text in just four minutes, as suggested by the time diff versus your "parent"?!
H0W l33t!
Compiling the blody thing is probably the easiest part in supporting the new kernel. Does Slackware in any other way even acknowledge 2.6? Does it help you set up udev? Is it NPTL aware? Does all the packages come with SELinux policies? Just getting udev or NPTL alone set up is hard, switching kernel is a minor operation in comparison. You'll likely save time by just blowing the old cruft away and installing a proper 2.6 distro.
I want all the new goodies, I want the guy who wrote SELinux to write the policies for my distro's packages, I want NPTL, and I want it up and running in under an hour, preferably installed over the network (and I'm not talking NFS here, it's 2004 for christs sake). That's why I don't dick around with Slackware but use Fedora Core. Yes, Slackware has its uses but it's for tinkerers and explorers, not for people who want to get stuff done.
does anyone have one yet?
if not, can someone start sharing it now please?
I'll be buying the DVD, (already pre-ordered) but I dont want to wait several months just to see it.
someone please share and post a torrent link, thanks!
Yes, the profit is still not high. I never said Mandrake was bad. In fact I used to run Mandrake very long time and I had used Red Hat before that. Now I use Gentoo.
Mandrake is a good distribution. One of the better imo. Now I like Gentoo even better because of the more fine grained control and the great Gentoo community.
There are a few distros -- SuSE, Fedora, Gentoo, and now Mandrake -- with SATA support out of the box in current versions.
:)
I'm going to get a SATA drive this month and try to install (or, preferably, clone an existing partition of) Debian on to it. Should be fun
"The number of Unix installations has grown to ten, with more expected." (Unix Programmer's Manual, 2nd ed.; june 1972)
> On the other hand, the UN should step in and limit the number of options
> when buying toothpaste. That decision has become mindboggling.
Toothpaste is a scam. (A harmless scam that doesn't cost you much, but a
scam.) You can brush with tapwater and get the same benefits as with paste.
Cut that out, or I will ship you to Norilsk in a box.
Until you've tried Mandrake's Apache Advanced Extranet Server I would at least reserve judgement on the Debian-for-servers issue.
date event comment
20031217 2.6 test iso In order to widen 2.6 test, create a one or two CD set with kernel 2.6
20031231 Cooker snapshot 2 CDs with kernel 2.6.0 final as default, XFree86 4.4 pre, KDE 3.1.94, kolab-server
20040122 10.0 beta 1 kernel 2.6.1, kernel 2.4.25 pre6, 3 CDs, pb with i8XX, kde 3.1.95, mozilla 1.6
20040202 10.0 beta 2 kernel 2.6.2 rc3, kernel 2.4.25 pre7, 3 CDs
20040202 Packages version freeze Only bug fixing, no new versions
20040216 10.0 rc1 3 CDs, revert to XFree86 4.3
20040304 10.0 Community Download edition (4 CDs) to all club members
Powerpack edition (5 CDs) to silver and above club members
20040312 10.0 Download 3 first CDs of download edition released to everyone
20040328 10.0 Official
As much as i dont follow mandrake, or much of linux for that matter, i think its great to see a 10.0 release of mandrake on a testing/unstable .oddnumber kernel.
I know where you're coming from; it's all about horses for courses.
:) }, Mandrake on every desktop that doesn't have to run Windows, and we're developing our own in-house replacements for all the Windows stuff we used to use.
At work, we used to have Slackware servers and Windows 98 SE desktops. My Linux experience is with Debian and Mandrake. We are now in the process of moving to Debian servers {well, we're keeping Slackware for the mo', but my boss has fallen in love with apt-get so we've standardised on Debian for their eventual replacements
We found Mandrake great for quickly setting up a workstation {mostly, just accept the defaults}; it's a bit less bother than installing Windows and a lot less crash-prone. The hardware auto-detection is just brilliant; we can just stick it on any old mobo and know it'll work {if that isn't tempting fate}.
For a server in co-lo, you have somewhat different requirements. A GUI installer is next to irrelevant; you want simple, quick and stable package management and no arsing about with mending dependencies {that's strictly for the spare-bedroom machine you muck about with ultra-new stuff on}. Neither my boss nor I are afraid of the command line, he a Slackware veteran and I a longtime Debian user, but Debian's package management swayed him.
Je fume. Tu fumes. Nous fûmes!
> Where can we draw the line? In my opinion 100/1000 distros is unimaginable.
> 10 is not that bad a number.
There actually are several hundred, but only a dozen or so actually matter,
and only really seven or so are "major" distros. Besides Mandrake, there's
RedHat/Fedora/PinkTie/Whatever, Debian, SUSE, Slackware, Gentoo, Knoppix,
and maybe another one or two I forgot. Then there are a handful of minor
distros that are nevertheless relevant (TurboLinux, Yellow Dog, LFS if you
classify that as a distro, microcontroller Linux, and so on.)
Most of the several hundred others can be classified into one of several
categories. A lot of them are niche-specialty items (e.g., specially geared
for teaching learning-disabled children using touchscreen technology -- you
know the sort of distros I mean). Some are custom distros mastered by and
for one particular organization or company as a house brand ("University of
Jonesville Linux"). There are also variations on various of the major
distros ("like Knoppix, but with Gnome instead of KDE", or "Like Mandrake,
but as a LiveCD"), and some lean-and-mean distros are geared toward basically
running one application or small set of applications on the minimum possible
resources (e.g., a tiny firewall distro, a dinky webserver distro, tomsrtbt,
and so on). These all have their usefullness, but none of them are anything
most users need to know or care about. (Okay, an argument could be made for
everyone needing to know about tomsrtbt, but Knoppix has taken over most of
its niche these days; still, if you count it, that only adds one more minor
distro to the list.)
Cut that out, or I will ship you to Norilsk in a box.
Face it, your distro is no longer the coolest.
So what if Mandrake is supposed to be based off of some magician? The first thing I thought of when I heard the name was this root with a purple glow (cmon: you know that would be cool) and didn't understand the yellow star at all until I read about the lawsuit over the name (9.2 being the first Mandrake for me). Besides, root has other fun meanings that make it ideal for a Linux name....
Long live Mandrake!!!
43 - For those who require slightly more than the answer to life, the universe and everything.
"is that it's the first fully supported FREE distro that has Samba 3 built into it."
Guess you never bothered to check out Fedora because that had Samba 3 built in and is fully supported and FREE.
If you wanna get rich, you know that payback is a bitch
I'm currently using Fedora Core 2 Test 1 which I decided to try, and I can honestly say that although it feels polished in terms of look and feel, I've always found Mandrake to offer a much more comprehensive set of software for the Desktop user. I think Red Hat (and of course Fedora) is great for server use, but the lack of multimedia apps (doesn't even play MP3s!) makes it too restricted for less technical desktop users. Mandrake just hits the spot perfectly with a combination of multimedia, networking, office and geeky apps to satisfy a wide range of users and leave very few wanting.
43 - For those who require slightly more than the answer to life, the universe and everything.
I put Mandrake 10.0 rc1 two days ago, had a 9.2 previously. I feel very well with it, mainly because of both 2.6 kernel and KDE 3.2 speed up. It even makes my old workstation (Celeron overclocked at 375MHz) turn to useble machine again! Also, I can enjoy my old scanner (Artec) and color printer (Cannon S200) now fully operational with linux. So MDK 10.0 helped me to get rid of Windows 2000 completely, becaused I was forced to kept it just for scanner and printer issues with 2.4 kernel.
There you are, staring at me again.
Here, bud. Intervention is good. www.apa.org/pubinfo/anger.htm "Control Anger Before It Controls You"
nothing.can.stop.me.now
I've a need for multiple usb devices: palm pilot, sd/mmio card reader, webcam, digital camera. They work well with mdk 9.2's supermount and devFS.
Will it be a problem in 10.0?
I'm a club member for two years, and my membership will expire today. I will not renew.
Several Years Ago Mandrake was in financial difficulties because of poor management. They created MandrakeClub to offer those who liked the distribution an opportunity to help support the company with the kickback of having the voices of the paying customer heard. For at least the past 9 months, this has not been the case. MandrakeClub has become a representativeless moneyhole where loyal paying customers are given the shaft. The idea of RPM voting was a good one, but the most popular RPMs were never packaged. In what was to become a common theme, paying customers were being totally ignored.
Today holds the ultimate example of why I won't be renewing. Club members have been asking for ftp servers as the bittorrent releases don't work. Well, once again they've decided not to listen ot their loyal paying customers and released the 10.0 distro to the Club members - via bittorrent. This is a horridly slow innefective solution. For paying customers, the proper thing to do is offer password protected FTP servers.
Now I know that lots of people think bittorrent is a great idea, but it isn't. Only Club members get the torrents, and right now it looks like it might get downloaded here by next week. The club simply isn't big enough to support bittorrent releases. Bittorrent releases would be a good idea for the non-paying public, but it is a most crappy way to treat loyal paying customers. I'm currently getting less than 10kB/s down using bittorrent.
In 6 months, when Mandrake is again scraping the bottom of the financial barrier, I will not shed a tear for their demise. The developers are good, but the management is horrible. Anyone who treats loyal paying customers as crappily as Mandrake does ends up in the annals of history as yet another failed company.
And them's the facts.
Linux - Because Mommy taught me to Share.
Fedora's variation of apt-get is pretty weak. I may not be an Linux expert, but the only included tool seems to be Add/Remove Programs and it only covers packages from the CDs - not on the system as a whole. Fedora desparately needs a built-in package management system comparable to apt-get and easy to use (Mandrake has something with urpmi, though I think installing unlisted packages is a little clumsy).
You advocate DiskDrake. I respond with a question:
What if I don't want to install XFree86 just to repartition my disks?
What if I want to partition my drives remotely, over ssh, from a text-only terminal, incapable of running VNC or any of the other remote X clients?
There is no killer solution, in a diverse world. If all Linux users or installer-people were alike, two things would happen: We'd likely refer to each other as "Eight of Nine, Tertiary Adjunct of Unimatrix 0" or similar, and there would be one, and only one, disk partitioning tool.
Unless you turned on this morning with a Luminglass above your head and called your neighbor "3 of 5, Tertiary Adjunct of Unimatrix 3", I highly doubt that only one partitioning tool will exist for quite some time.
Personally, I prefer cfdisk, because when I partition disks, I want it done without cryptic-ness and I don't want to install X (~20 mb of source download and ~10 hours of compilation) just to partition my hard drive.
Granted, I've never tried parted, but with tools like cfdisk, I don't need to, either.
This is not the sig you're looking for.
trollattempt ? mandrake is the only distribution with permanent up-to-date / easy-to-install binaries. Installing the neweset KDE from the cooker repositories is just a click away. Updated every 2-5 days, same for gnome and nearly any other standard software. Didn't run after any rpms for years now ! And now look into internet webforums... they are full of fedora users and HeulSuSen looking for rpms and fiddling with the dependencies... that is so silly ! Same for irc channels...
You seem to consider the fact that Mandrake is going with .torrents rather than FTP as a personal insult. I'm different; I would prefer that Mandrake spends as little money as possible on bandwidth charges and as much as possible on development. Every time Mandrake has set up FTP servers restricted to club members, they get rewarded with people giving away userids and passwords on #mandrake and then their sites get pounded. So now they switch to Bittorrent, and now you'll have to wait at most a few days to get your ISOs, and they save serious cash.
The Mandrake Club idea has always advertised itself as primarilly a way for people to give something back to Mandrake. The other perks are just gravy. The point behind RPM voting is to give the volunteer packagers an idea of what people want. Mandrake doesn't employ a packager to just watch the voting section all day and make packages.
--
Long-term effects of Bush deficits
stupid trolls
Here is the entire thread from that article as of right now.
... I'm sure we two are not the only ones who will leave that club!
...).
Mandrake Club (Score: 1)
by DrVali on Wednesday, February 11 @ 18:15:15 CET
(User Info | Send a Message)
It's really disturbing to hear what I had suspected - that Mandrake Club had become a representativeless cash-cow for MandrakeSoft.
We are the people who liked your product so much that we laid money on the line in order to keep your company afloat, and now you turn around and tell us that you haven't been listening to us since Deno left... For most of the early subscribers, it was 2 years ago when you asked for help, and those of us who joined are up for our second renewal.
I'm not renewing.
I have to wonder if this type of management got Mandrake in Chapter 11 to begin with, and from what I've seen with the way you handle paying customers, you're likely to be back in financial difficulty soon.
If you want to keep paying customers, you need to respond to them in the forums that they pay to participate in.
If you want to keep paying customers, you should release your products to them. Anyone seen the AMD64 download edition?
Perhaps Club isn't an important part of Mandrake anymore, who knows. If you've become solvent after using Club to bolster you financially while you rearranged and reprioritized, that's fine. Make Club free and earn your keep in your new business model. I'm not renewing, and I know I'm not alone. It's no longer worth it to me.
[ Reply to This | ]
Re: Mandrake Club (Score: 1)
by crac on Wednesday, February 11 @ 18:30:07 CET
(User Info | Send a Message) http://ruemli.org/~luca/personal/
I totaly agree and I will follow you in 30 days by not renewing my membership too
[ Reply to This | ]
Re: Mandrake Club (Score: 1)
by Foske on Thursday, February 12 @ 09:47:21 CET
(User Info | Send a Message)
Yup... I only got a few days left... I might come back, when they can show me the club is worth anything again. For now I'll contrib by hunting bugs, I might even buy 10.0, but it's goodbye MandrakeClub.
[ Reply to This | ]
Re: Mandrake Club (Score: 1)
by newimr on Thursday, February 12 @ 15:04:12 CET
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Well, the above poster is not exactly making sense, apart from being very angry:
first, the contributors that are responded to and talked about in the news are the mandrake cooker developpers, not the club members. They, the developers, feel mandrakesoft lack communication toward them.
So the whole "i knew we were left over" is not making sense.
As they, the developpers, also asked questions about the club, answers about it are also provided, but it was not a set of questions/answers about the club and its members, but about mandrake soft and the cooker developers.
As to the club members not being listened to:
1/ club members asked for priviledges, it has been done. (earlier iso, mandrake move for silver,
2/ club members asked lately for updated iso: it has been done.
3/ club members asked for a change in the release dates to avoid the 9.2 problems, it has been done.
4/ people kept complaining abouut the menu, done. Now people complain about the new menu, before complaining about the new new menu.
As to the developers coming to the forums to help you set the alsa volume (for example), I prefer to have them fixing the issue alltogether once and for all (and it seems they did in 10). Let the developpers develop!
Yes, it could be nice to have more mandrake people to take care of the forums, and why not, to relay the biggest issues to the developpers. But hasnt been just answered that they plan hiring some?
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Respectfully disagree (Score: 1)
by Azureflare on Wednesday, February 11 @ 19:35:27 CET
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I understand your point of view, it seems that it is difficult to ge
Say what? What a load of wannabe-elitist crap.
Mandrake is intended for people who appreciate a distro which simply works.
What are you, so advanced you do your Linux installations with a magnet and a steady hand directly onto your harddrive platters?
Instant clue for you, sonny-boy: There are people out there who have been managing Linux installations since you were in diapers who prefer Mandrake because of its (quite advanced) features which allow everyone, even sysadmins and weary techs, to get on with the job.
And remember kids: Never trust a computer you can actually lift.
I wholeheartedly concur.
I want to touch Ellen Feiss.
Steady on -- you're getting paranoid. I'm not trying to disparage Mandrake users, or any beginners. Far from it -- I save that level of disdain for people who won't even try Linux, but insist on cursing at their Windows boxes as long as the plug's in the wall. All I'm saying is it's a good distribution for beginners to start with, because you don't have to muck about with it much to get it to work. Read my postings again with your brain switched on, will you?
And frankly, I don't get what you think is wrong with being "elitist". This seems to me to be a concept dreamed up by people with an inferiority complex, who can't handle the way the world works. I believe that it is entirely legitimate to discriminate against people who are no good at something. After all, prowess in a particular field -- whether that be mathematics, sports or eating baked beans with a toothpick -- can only ever be levelled up.
Je fume. Tu fumes. Nous fûmes!
# urpmi.addmedia --distrib mymirror ftp://mymirror.com/path/to/mandrake/release/arch
# urpmi apt
# urpmi synaptic
BTW, there are a few issues with "Debian-style package management".
Firstly, there's a package installation backend, dpkg vs rpm. It's too much work to change between them.
Secondly, there's a package management frontend, urpmi vs apt. apt in Mandrake has been patched to work with the same hdlists as urpmi, so it's really no issue.
The third issue is the package quality and standards, and Mandrake probably has the best package quality of the major rpm distros, because there is a sane library policy, and many tools and automatic checks run on packages.
So, IMHO, apt-get is irrelevant. urpmi has most features apt has, and many apt doesn't have.
So, why don't you give it a try?
Mandrake has a policy that no non-free software may be in the download edition (well, really in main and contrib).
If you want to see display drivers for your display card in the free (freely licensed, as opposed to free to use) version, contact your hardware vendor.
No exceptions are made, the last non-free software (netscape 4) was removed in 7.x.
You get apt the same place you get everything else with Mandrake, urpmi:
...
First, add a contrib medium (go to http://www.urpmi.org/easyurpmi if you need help to do this), then:
# urpmi apt synaptic
Of course, urpmi is officially supported, apt isn't, so doing an upgrade is is probably a better time to use urpmi than apt
(Mandrake has something with urpmi, though I think installing unlisted packages is a little clumsy)
How so? You can install any rpm which you can access via ftp/http/ssh/local files by running:
# urpmi path/to/package
And, any dependencies urpmi already knows about will be installed, along with the package.
If you need dependencies from the same location, you need hdlists for remote sources, or to add a virtual urpmi medium for local sources.
Mandrake has apt in contrib, patched to use the same hdlists as urpmi does.
why i use mandrake ... coz from when i put cd into drive till fully functional OS is round 20-25 minutes .. so personaly i dont care if appache works like 10% faster on let's say gentoo or debian ... if my apache is starting to act slowly .. hell i just go to first hw store and get some more ram :))) ... time is gold ...
I'm talking about if you want the GUI to do it. For me, at least, it would keep "forgetting" the local RPM directory when I would input it. :|
yum is the future for Fedora. Right now up2date can be configured to use any yum repository, which comes in handy to keep many 3rd party packages ( such as those for multimedia that Red Hat limits/ignors ) updated. However, I agree that this needs to be intergrated back into the Add/Remove Programs so that you can fully manage packages ( kinda like what Synaptic does, but this needs more of a polished look to it ).
Toothpaste is a scam. (A harmless scam that doesn't cost you much, but a scam.) You can brush with tapwater and get the same benefits as with paste.
Not convinced. You'd have to use a LOT of fluoridated tapwater to get fluorine poisoning.
Can't the Slashcoders rig it so that you can't even post AC in a discussion you have been moderating?
Yes, the main problems would be installing enough hidden cameras in people's homes / workplaces to be able to spot the same person posting without logging in as has moderated while logged in, and of course the image recognition software that can check every poster in real time. Hmmmm... people wearing masks might still cause a problem. Also someone might ask a friend to post comments for them.
Maybe if we killed everyone in the world, that might do it?
You'd expect this to be under Add/Remove Programs. Instead, what Fedora gives you is only a list of what the Fedora CDs installed.
What it needs is something akin to apt-get, where you can call upon an entire listing of programs on your computer at any time, and then be able to install updates or uninstall them rather painlessly without having to worry much about dependencies. If Fedora has that, then by all mean it must be brought out into the open! Apt-get not only does away with the Linux dependabilities problem, but it does it in a way that is even more elegant than Windows. Point-and-click installs! :D
up2date is designed for getting updates ONLY ( much like Windows Update / Automatic Updates ).
Fedora has both yum and apt ( which work identically, meaning you can install/update software from it, and it does automatic depedency resolution ), but it doesn't come with an GUI based package management ( like Synaptic ). I agree, Add/Remove Packages should be like this out of the box, but for now you can download Synaptic and achieve the same net effect minus the nice looking GUI.
Thanks a lot the I did not take the "Nat Error" of Azureus enough into account because BitTorrent was working, but at 10 to 20k/s. I moved back to shorewall and opened ports 6881 to 6889 and reached 150k and it was finished in 2 hours and half (for the 2 and half CDs).
hey, I'm glad it worked out for you, I felt the same way you did about bittorrent until I got it working.now that it is working, you can see why bittirrent is better, just think how long you would have had to wait if you tried to DL it from an ftp site the week it came out.
MOD DOWN - GOOGLE BOMBER