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That system + this case + this power supply + your favorite touchscreen = kickass carputer setup.

That system + this case + this power supply + your favorite touchscreen = kickass carputer setup.

As long as we're at it, let's point out a 99% efficient PSU to go with it.

Gee, this was hard to find... http://www.mini-box.com/Intel-Mini-ITX-Boards

I spent a few minutes googling and came up with a US supplier with various mini-itx logic boards. One has gigabit ethernet. Others have HDMI, DVI and more:

http://www.mini-box.com/s.nl/sc.8/category.100/.f

And no... I have no connection with them ... but if they want to thank me for the plug, I could put some of these to use...

Seems like I also hit another page that had mini-itx boards with a Duo 2 processor. Now, I just need to find one with a Duo 1 processor, put it in a tiny metal case and use to cook breakfast. :-)

http://www.mini-box.com/Intel-D945GCLF-Mini-ITX-Motherboard

$80

I think this box would be an ideal computing appliance for the average user. Of course, I would recommend CentOS and a carefully configured set of applications and GUI.

Think, like, your mom and dad checking their email and looking for bargains on Craigslist. At 4 watts.

Yes.

Huh? Why exactly do you want six 200 Mhz PPC based systems? Just get some of these with these power supplies. (Don't forget the adapter for the P4 12V line.)

But get smart and don't even bother with six of anything. Buy a linksys device for your router/firewall. And buy one D201GLY2 for everything else. Depending on your storage needs you'll be looking at a pair of SATA and a pair of ATA disks. If you need more than that buy a PCI controller. It has a built in 100 MB network port (less than ideal, but it'll do for your condo.)

Huh? Why exactly do you want six 200 Mhz PPC based systems? Just get some of these with these power supplies. (Don't forget the adapter for the P4 12V line.)

But get smart and don't even bother with six of anything. Buy a linksys device for your router/firewall. And buy one D201GLY2 for everything else. Depending on your storage needs you'll be looking at a pair of SATA and a pair of ATA disks. If you need more than that buy a PCI controller. It has a built in 100 MB network port (less than ideal, but it'll do for your condo.)

Although Via is not overpriced any longer, they used to charge hundreds of dollars for their Mini-ITX boards, and thus they keep their hard-won repuation. Believe me, those skinflints deserve it.

They used to charge OVER $300 just for passive-cooled Mini-ITX boards with processors slower than 1GHz. That's not competitively priced with ANY other platform. Just as an example, the (now $60) C7 1.5GHz board you linked went for over $200 on introduction last year! And the worst part: the prices never went down, not even with new product introductions, because Via was the only game in town.

So, what has changed?

Intel recently offered the D201GLY Mini-ITX with integrated Celeron for 80 bucks, and overnight the overpriced Via Mini-ITX market crashed.

Yes, Intel delivered more performance, at about the same power envelope, for less than half what Via was charging. Overnight, Intel changed a market that Via had literally let stagnate for the last 5 years: Via had product delays, overhyped improvements, and overpriced products, while Intel simply made a board that delivered all-of-the-above. Now THAT is a market force that can move mountains!

And now Intel wants to push power consumption and price even lower than Via ever dared, with performance that will probably be competitive with the C7. I say, bring it on!

Although Via is not overpriced any longer, they used to charge hundreds of dollars for their Mini-ITX boards, and thus they keep their hard-won repuation. Believe me, those skinflints deserve it.

They used to charge OVER $300 just for passive-cooled Mini-ITX boards with processors slower than 1GHz. That's not competitively priced with ANY other platform. Just as an example, the (now $60) C7 1.5GHz board you linked went for over $200 on introduction last year! And the worst part: the prices never went down, not even with new product introductions, because Via was the only game in town.

So, what has changed?

Intel recently offered the D201GLY Mini-ITX with integrated Celeron for 80 bucks, and overnight the overpriced Via Mini-ITX market crashed.

Yes, Intel delivered more performance, at about the same power envelope, for less than half what Via was charging. Overnight, Intel changed a market that Via had literally let stagnate for the last 5 years: Via had product delays, overhyped improvements, and overpriced products, while Intel simply made a board that delivered all-of-the-above. Now THAT is a market force that can move mountains!

And now Intel wants to push power consumption and price even lower than Via ever dared, with performance that will probably be competitive with the C7. I say, bring it on!

Absolutely true, and frustratingly so. Although, there are an increasing number of solutions. For the average HTPC that really only has a hard drive and a DVD player as internal power consumers, the PicoPSU works really well. It's utterly tiny, cheap, and fanless. Add to that the fact that 2.5" drives are getting up around the 200GB range commonly, and that laptop DVD drives can be quite easily adapted, and the Mac Mini finally has some reasonable competition.

Now, if there was only a software solution that was a) simple, b) elegant and c) relatively stable, I'd be in heaven. Media Portal is in the neighborhood, but it's starting to develop the endlessly irritating feature bloat that seems to permeate this genre of software for some reason. I don't give a hobo's crap about visualizations, PVR capability or an endless collection of useless plugins that don't work, but I seem to be completely alone in that desire. If I could configure Front Row *at all* it would be the perfect solution... the Leopard version threatens to address this problem, but I guess we'll see. Sadly, Minis ain't as cheap as DIY hardware...

The new Intel MB with an embedded Celeron processor has far better performance at a lower cost. Try this:

  $46.99 - Hard drive - 40GB, 5400rpm Seagate
    28.99 - 1GB Memory - Corsair DDR2 533
    69.50 - MB - Intel D201GLY, Celeron 1.33
    54.95 - Fanless power supply - picoPSU-120
    59.95 - Case - M300

$260.38 - Total - Shipping NOT included

Far better performance, reasonable power consumption (~25w), small and silent

Or, if you prefer single stop shopping, try this.

This article makes an inefficient computer when there are plenty of available components that use considerably less power. My favorites include the Via http://www.via.com.tw/ line of processors and motherboards and the PICO PSU from http://www.mini-box.com/ claims >90% efficiency for all of its models. Using these components you can make a system that uses about 30Watts instead of the 168Watts in the article. Thats a five fold difference!

The size of a PCI card, perpendicular to a motherboard, will continue to constrain the minimum case size. Until some company gets the bright idea to bring risers back from the dead.

What, like these? Risers never went away. (Though frankly I'm more interested in Expresscard as an expansion form factor in mini-pcs.)

An ATX power supploy doesn't need to be big.

Why not design a single supply board? Preferrably wide-range input (say 8 - 28V) and be done with it? These boards don't need +/- 12V anyway, and +5V or +3.3V is already regulated down to core voltages.

http://www.mini-box.com/PicoPSU-120-WI-32V

The picoPSU-120-WI-32 is the smallest snap-in 12-32V ATX dc-dc power supply. The picoPSU is compatible with an entire range of mini-itx motherboards as well as regular boards. The picoPSU-1200-WI-32 provides a cool, silent 120 Watts peak of power for small PC designs using a single 12-32V power source.

Nope, it insists on an ATX format power plug.

Exactly.

Lookout for pico PSUs if you want something small.

This one is DC-DC and takes up barely more space than the atx connector itself.

http://www.mini-box.com/s.nl/it.A/id.417/.f?sc=8&c ategory=13

Like these?

I got me one of these for my via epia board. It plugs right into the power connector, is barely bigger than the connector itself, and runs from 12V DC. My Epia now runs for several hours on a small lead acid battery. Also perfectly fit for use in cars I guess...

iMedia MythTV is made out of box for the PVR350 cards, and to my knowledge, it supports video out from the card. http://www.mini-box.com/s.nl/it.A/id.421/.f

And like many before me, what is so special about MythDora? If I want to do a MythTV install I'll use the iMedia distro (SFF / small install footprint) or KnoppMyth.

And like many before me, what is so special about MythDora? If I want to do a MythTV install I'll use the iMedia distro (SFF / small install footprint) or KnoppMyth.

gets you one such product at 60W. They have similar products up to 200W. I have 'em. They work great. They have flavors up to 200W.

http://www.parallax.com/detail.asp?product_id=2882 3 and http://www.mini-box.com/VIA-NL-10000E-Nano-ITX-Mot herboard and http://gcc.gnu.org/.

I'm curious to know how the PC mentioned in TFA will perform compared to those of VIA's current offerings.

Your problem is not the board - it's the crappy way you are trying to power it. Get a board that provides a regulated 12VDC rail - Opus Solutions have some nice boards, Mini Box also have some nice stuff which is aimed at the Car PC enthusiast. If you are using one of the really cheap Morex boards that require a regulated 12VDC input then you have the wrong PSU for the job.

This DC-DC PSU runs off an external source and is barely bigger than athe ATX connector. http://www.mini-box.com/s.nl?sc=8&category=13&it=A &id=417

It is VERY hard to change the voltage of DC with high efficiecy

Not true. DC-DC converters have existed for years, and they are highly efficient. Take, for example, the DC-DC convertor on your motherboard - if it were only 30% efficient, it would be dissipating more heat than the CPU. Fortunately, DC-DC converters are generally closer to 90-95% efficient.

Take, for example, the picoPSU - it outputs 120W at various voltages (from a DC source) and it doesn't even have a heatsink.

I've been considering this since the last time this was on slashdot. While over any real distance DC is inefficient for power transmission, the inside of a rack might benefit. I figure with a large UPS and some sort of redundant power-supply, you could feed a number of computers with 12V lines and a picoPSU-120 12V DC-DC ATX power supply. Has anyone tried this yet? I've never worked with high-density hardware (like blades) but I'd imagine that each blade is certainly not using its own PSU.

http://www.mini-box.com/s.nl/sc.8/category.83/it.A /id.369/.f

I bet it would fit just fine.

But a breakable glass case? While it looks cool, no thanks...

Heat source management
Do not put large transformers in HVAC space.
Encourage the use of dc power supplies. (12 24 48 72)
http://www.mini-box.com/s.nl/sc.8/category.13/it.A /id.300/.f efficiency %95
http://www.mini-box.com/s.nl/sc.8/category.13/it.A /id.417/.f efficiency %97

this is only %70 at full load http://www.powerstream.com/DC-PC-48V.htm other units can be %30-%75 see http://www.tomshardware.com/2004/01/22/getting_the _right_power/page3.html and http://www.tomshardware.com/2005/07/11/how_thg_tes ts_power_supplies/page3.html for more info.

Cooling
Take a look at heat pumps for local heat dumps.
Do not run your ac on UPS

Peak shaving
Run your generators during peak loads
Use the heat from your gen set to cool the datacenter (continuous-cycle absorption cooling) http://www.nh3tech.org/absorption.html
Use solar / wind to recharge the battery bank.

smart non data center power use
turn off elevators/automatic doors during peak usage
use efficient low level/low power (led) lighting.

Have your users pay a heat tax per 100wt

Look not only at the cost upfront but the total cost over the life of the data center. There are a whole bunch more, but it depends on your needs/design/issues.

Heat source management
Do not put large transformers in HVAC space.
Encourage the use of dc power supplies. (12 24 48 72)
http://www.mini-box.com/s.nl/sc.8/category.13/it.A /id.300/.f efficiency %95
http://www.mini-box.com/s.nl/sc.8/category.13/it.A /id.417/.f efficiency %97

this is only %70 at full load http://www.powerstream.com/DC-PC-48V.htm other units can be %30-%75 see http://www.tomshardware.com/2004/01/22/getting_the _right_power/page3.html and http://www.tomshardware.com/2005/07/11/how_thg_tes ts_power_supplies/page3.html for more info.

Cooling
Take a look at heat pumps for local heat dumps.
Do not run your ac on UPS

Peak shaving
Run your generators during peak loads
Use the heat from your gen set to cool the datacenter (continuous-cycle absorption cooling) http://www.nh3tech.org/absorption.html
Use solar / wind to recharge the battery bank.

smart non data center power use
turn off elevators/automatic doors during peak usage
use efficient low level/low power (led) lighting.

Have your users pay a heat tax per 100wt

Look not only at the cost upfront but the total cost over the life of the data center. There are a whole bunch more, but it depends on your needs/design/issues.

http://www.mini-box.com/s.nl/sc.8/category.13/it.A /id.424/.f
This unit might fit the bill then.. Seems to cover the whole surge and brown out problem, or so it claims. And its small, but not as small.

oops that link may not work... , try this

They have a powersupply on mini-box that is designed specifically for auto use. Not quite as small but still pretty cool:

link

Well, if you follow the mini-box.com link mentioned in this topic, you see they also have a Car PSU, and even a ready-built Car x86 PC. Unfortunately the links they mention don't seem to leed to the corresponding product, I don't see the nice car PC case between their specs, for example.

Well, if you follow the mini-box.com link mentioned in this topic, you see they also have a Car PSU, and even a ready-built Car x86 PC. Unfortunately the links they mention don't seem to leed to the corresponding product, I don't see the nice car PC case between their specs, for example.

For years I worked on a viable PC-for-the-car. This is before Microsoft had their operating system (failure) for car stereos, and before the CarPC was even a thought by the designer. My biggest problem was finding a cheap, small and capable 12DC-DC power supply. Even a few years ago they were basically impossible to find.

I'm glad to see there is now a market for these power supplies (although I'm sure this isn't for car applications). I wonder how efficient it is -- and how much heat it gives off. The article was a bit...sparse.

I miss my old car PC -- 8 years ago it could do so much more than anything else I've seen. Considering how much time I wasted, I wish I kept all the software and code.

A couple more links to the picoPSU:

http://www.mini-box.com/s.nl/sc.8/category.13/it.A /id.417/.f

http://www.bit-tech.net/news/2006/01/07/pico_psu/

http://www.epiacenter.com/modules.php?name=News&fi le=article&sid=718

http://www.realtechnews.com/page/2/

And, of course: http://www.digg.com/hardware/World_s_smallest_powe r_supply_-_the_picoPSU

They sell them here for $50 if you're interested in putting one in your mod or computer.

You may also be interested in the pdf guide for the picoPSU-120.

They sell them here for $50 if you're interested in putting one in your mod or computer.

You may also be interested in the pdf guide for the picoPSU-120.

Actually, all you need is a CompactFlash device and one of these:
http://www.mini-box.com/s.nl/sc.8/category.14/it.A /id.243/.f

Pricewatch lists 4Gb Compact Flash cards already, and that top end is likely to rise quickly.

http://www.mini-box.com/s.nl/sc.8/category.13/it.A /id.300/.f

Did a little looking around, since I know the Dell GX620 in it's ultra small form factor. I didn't read the manual, but it claims to be able to run most P4 boards up to 3Ghz.

Sorry, couldn't resist the Speedy Gonsalez reference.

I very much like the Via Epia platform. It is a basic Intel-clone platform. It's not screaming fast (1.2GHz last I checked), but it can run Linux and runs it well, and it doesn't need a lot of power.

I would suggest combining it with a 12V power supply from Mini Box and a battery equalizer so that you can run it off of the DC side of your RE system (so as to eliminate both the DC->AC and AC->DC overheads).

The board is a mini-ITX form factor, and as such, will fit not just a mini-ITX case, but also Flex-ATX, Micro-ATX and ATX cases. You can use the larger cases if you need more space for HDDs, etc.

The Epia MII-12000 is what I am using (I am on grid power, though). It has video, audio, USB, Firewire, PCMCIA, CF and ethernet all built in. For a server (keeping in mind that the ethernet will be the bottleneck), you can always add more storage to the system by firewire if you run out of space on the IDE busses (though I don't recommend going to USB).

There are three down sides besides the low clock speed that you should be aware of. First, it cannot boot from PCMCIA or CF.... probably not an issue for you. Second, it has only one PCI slot, so expansion can be a tad limited there. Third, video drivers (probably not an issue on a server) for Linux for the built-in hardware can be a bitch to set up.

How about an external power supply? Maybe something like this:

http://www.mini-box.com/s.nl/sc.8/category.13/it.A /id.229/.f

Although maybe not as powerful as you need. I'm sure it depends on what you want to put together. Does anyone know of a 450Watt external power supply!?

-P

But my system has onboard hardware-assistend MPEG-decoding. It also has built-in TV out, both NTSC and S-Video. So it works perfectly as a standard-definition media PC -- and the CPU never breathes hard with this type of usage. In fact, mine runs exclusively as a Myth TV front end. And it works great!

The motherboard is availble for about $150.

Fanless cases are available for about $180. (I use the former case and can atest to its utter silence. My system boots over the net and has no local drives. So when I mean utter silence, that's exactly what I mean.)

So, if I had my choice between spending £999 vs $400 for a Myth TV-type system, I would go with the latter. Again.

like sunny boy inverters, google for them

The sunny boy inverters would actually be a very poor choice, because they shut down when the grid power goes. They are designed only to add your solar input to an existing AC system.

I would, instead, suggest getting an inverter from Xantrex/Trace or from Outback Power Systems. These are also grid-tie inverters, but can support being attached to a battery system.

A different, and perhaps better (and definitely much cheaper) solution, would be to purchase 12VDC power supplies from Mini-Box and cobining this with a 12V battery system and charger.

yeah but we're not talking about a powersaving feature, we're talking about having 4ghz vs 0.5ghz. That's a huge difference. Now if you're just checking email with both the systems then your wasting, but if you're encoding DivX movies you need the extra mhz.

besides, someone had a good point:
"your desktop power supply does not run at capacity all the time, it needs that to get it through surges in demand"

The only difference between a VIA system and a p4 system is the processor. The hd, video, etc are all sucking the same amount of power, and that p4 isn't going to be sucking maximum power 24/7, when you're just checking email you're not going to be at 90% utilization. Sure it'll use more wattage than a Via, but it's unlikely it'll be 200w vs 90w all the time like in my example, I'd bet the power consumption would be closer to about even given everything being the same except for a Via CPU vs a P4. Does anyone exactly how much more a P4 sucks down at idle vs a Via CPU? I'm betting it's not over 50w, probably not even that dramatic.

check this out: EPIA Power Simulator tells you the power consumption of EPIA boards with different accessories. At idle with a high-end video card, CDROM drive and 3.5" hd a EPIA 5000 got nearly 90w. They also have a p4 you can play with proving larger power consumption, but I found this interesting: over at Anandtech they did a review showing that a AMD64 3500+ 90nm core only sucks down 86w at idle. 86w! That's a full system too. The Tech Report did a similar test and got 113w from a similar cpu. That's still damn good.

So if what these sites are saying is correct these boards really don't save any power when the PCs are idle compared to 3+ ghz AMD64 90nm core processors, and very little compared to P4s. Good to know.

The LCD also came with it's own ac/dc transformer that also supplied +12V. Having two power cords was a pain and unacceptable, so I cut and spliced them together. That is why you only see one cord.

Mini-box make some neato little ITX boxes which you could hook up to any number of storage solutions. Past that, I've had good success with Mini-ITX boards. I get the cases from Web-tronics, as the MITX ones are very, very expensive -- they're meant to make your MITX look like a CD player, pretty much, and I can do more without having to worry about cosmetics. MiniBox (above) sells snap-in MITX power supplies ranging from 60w to 200w. For the extra cool factor, use a Xenarc display or use something 'headless', e.g., LCDProc and Crystalfontz. (As I remember, the MiniBoxes come with their own little displays.)