Slashdot Mirror

FYI: XBL is already Mozilla's eXtensible Binding Language.

Off-topic and so forth, but meh.

Firefox is past the point of catch-up in many ways, but hopefully it will continue to show new features/improvements so that it can continue to become even greater

MSIE is way behind the leaders, but there are still browsers which FF/Gecko can catch up to in certain ways, especially Opera and also perhaps Konqueror/KHTML. A friend of mine gave a feature of Opera which is listed among "parity-opera" bugs on bugzilla given as the reason why he won't use FF. There are about 30 of these right now.

(it was #237119 that was named, if you're into that sort of thing)

While paying developers to work on an EXISTING open source project does work, paying developers to CREATE an open source does not. What happens? Millions of dollars in... money and feature creep at an unimaginable scale.

That's funny, what you wrote sounds pretty much like what everybody was saying about Mozilla circa 2000 or so.

Now, of course, we all can see what Mozilla.org hath wrought. But it took a loooooong time to get there, and a lot of missteps. So Chandler in this respect is not terribly different from Mozilla.

Firefox 0.1 was 10x more usable than Chandler 0.5.

That's because when Firefox 0.1 was released (as Phoenix 0.1) on Sep. 23, 2002, there had already been nearly five years of work plowed into the Mozilla codebase.

OSAF organized in 2002 or so, so if you want to see where Mozilla was at an equivalent point in its lifecycle, go dig up a copy of Mozilla Milestone 18 or so (bring your crash helmet, you'll need it).

I think you really want to link to project Lightning. That's the one that brings Sunbird and Thunderbird together.

I want his opinion on Thunderbird-Sunbird integration.

Personally I install Orbit 3+1 with small buttons first thing.

You can also download the ForecastFox plugin for Firefox.

Please see http://www.mozilla.org/roadmap/mozilla-1.0.html for links about this.

Html Validator (with Tidy) is a Firefox extension that allows you to view validation errors in the view-source window.

Slashdot won't let you validate it...so I had to save a copy and validate it

You've obviously missed this nifty little tool -- it let's you run the W3C's Tidy in Firefox's view-page-source window. The only thing it's missing is a way to send the cleaned up HTML back to the browser window.

Firefox doesn't always render pages consistently; for example, quite often it messes up the Slashdot home page and I have to reload the page to view it properly. I wonder why this is.

I agree with you completely on this stuff. I don't use any extensions, but memory footprint and stuff is irritating.

In regard to the Slashdot bug, there's been an open bug on this since at least August of 2003.

From the first time I used Mozilla, I was immensely disappointed by the memory footprint and what turned out to be problems with the "working set". Firefox isn't all that much better than the latest Mozilla builds, but, as I pessimistically muttered under my breath while using Mozilla that the memory issues would be addressed by increasing the system requirements, I realized when I bought my most recent 512MB DIMM, that my pesimissm would be realized.

I am stunned that more people don't acknowledge this stuff. But I can only assume it is because they aren't running anything else on their machines. Mozilla is fatter than any software on my machine, including MS Office and Lotus Notes. It always has been.

The only promising side is that the bloat appears to be the price of extensability... older browsers have evolved to be able to do what Mozilla is doing off the starting blocks... and given that despite the alternatives are faster and lighter, Mozilla is more reliable, and far more trustworthy than the competition.

The next generation of competition might make Mozilla (or variants) appear small and lightweight by comparision.

GRE stands for Gecko Runtime Environment, analogous to JRE, and it is (or is supposed to become one day) a set of shared libraries that can be loaded by applications that need an XHTML layout engine, XUL parser etc. It's not a service that needs to be started, especially not at boot time. That would just be weird. :)

Firefox just doesn't appear to have the same form manager capbility, including the extensions, or I haven't found it yet.

jwz has called the mork db format "the single most braindamaged file format that I have ever seen in my nineteen year career."

Suggestions would include switching to MySQL, or to an XML format like Safari uses. See Bugzilla #241438.

include a wget type mirror tools (plugin?)

for Mozilla 1.x, i think 'Down Them All' might be what you are looking for -- although it's an extension and not a plugin.

https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=27785 2

Firefox works for me, but I still use Mozilla primarily because some of the features changed or are gone that I'm used to in Mozilla. I'm a less efficient web surfer with Firefox. e.g. try bookmarking a group of tabs. It's very simple in Mozilla, but Firefox screwed this up bad. Want to open that same group of tabs? It's a lot of extra mouse movement in Firefox (though on the plus side you can open individual bookmarks within the group that you can't do in Mozilla). These (and others) and the following bugs prevent me from using it as my primary browser:

• https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=23385 3
• https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=22782 6
• https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=23139 3

Honestly, I really don't know what people are talking about how bloated Mozilla is over Firefox. You don't have to install anything you don't want to. Don't want Composer or Mozchat? Don't install them. Firefox is lighter weight than Mozilla simply because they removed a BUNCH of features. You can add (most) of these back in via extensions. By the time I add the dozen or so extensions I need to get back to the functionality of Mozilla, guess what? They have a very similar footprint.

Finally, to me, Firefox seems like a dumbed down version of Mozilla. Features and settings are hidden that were out in the open in Mozilla. It's like they used the Microsoft method of application development: make it look slick and pretty on the outside, fill in the features and fix the bugs on the inside later. Firefox has a lot of pluses, but it's not quite cooked yet. No offense to the developers. To be fair, Firefox has made significant improvements with each release. It'll get there, but it's not there yet.

Firefox works for me, but I still use Mozilla primarily because some of the features changed or are gone that I'm used to in Mozilla. I'm a less efficient web surfer with Firefox. e.g. try bookmarking a group of tabs. It's very simple in Mozilla, but Firefox screwed this up bad. Want to open that same group of tabs? It's a lot of extra mouse movement in Firefox (though on the plus side you can open individual bookmarks within the group that you can't do in Mozilla). These (and others) and the following bugs prevent me from using it as my primary browser:

• https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=23385 3
• https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=22782 6
• https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=23139 3

Honestly, I really don't know what people are talking about how bloated Mozilla is over Firefox. You don't have to install anything you don't want to. Don't want Composer or Mozchat? Don't install them. Firefox is lighter weight than Mozilla simply because they removed a BUNCH of features. You can add (most) of these back in via extensions. By the time I add the dozen or so extensions I need to get back to the functionality of Mozilla, guess what? They have a very similar footprint.

Finally, to me, Firefox seems like a dumbed down version of Mozilla. Features and settings are hidden that were out in the open in Mozilla. It's like they used the Microsoft method of application development: make it look slick and pretty on the outside, fill in the features and fix the bugs on the inside later. Firefox has a lot of pluses, but it's not quite cooked yet. No offense to the developers. To be fair, Firefox has made significant improvements with each release. It'll get there, but it's not there yet.

Firefox works for me, but I still use Mozilla primarily because some of the features changed or are gone that I'm used to in Mozilla. I'm a less efficient web surfer with Firefox. e.g. try bookmarking a group of tabs. It's very simple in Mozilla, but Firefox screwed this up bad. Want to open that same group of tabs? It's a lot of extra mouse movement in Firefox (though on the plus side you can open individual bookmarks within the group that you can't do in Mozilla). These (and others) and the following bugs prevent me from using it as my primary browser:

• https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=23385 3
• https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=22782 6
• https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=23139 3

Honestly, I really don't know what people are talking about how bloated Mozilla is over Firefox. You don't have to install anything you don't want to. Don't want Composer or Mozchat? Don't install them. Firefox is lighter weight than Mozilla simply because they removed a BUNCH of features. You can add (most) of these back in via extensions. By the time I add the dozen or so extensions I need to get back to the functionality of Mozilla, guess what? They have a very similar footprint.

Finally, to me, Firefox seems like a dumbed down version of Mozilla. Features and settings are hidden that were out in the open in Mozilla. It's like they used the Microsoft method of application development: make it look slick and pretty on the outside, fill in the features and fix the bugs on the inside later. Firefox has a lot of pluses, but it's not quite cooked yet. No offense to the developers. To be fair, Firefox has made significant improvements with each release. It'll get there, but it's not there yet.

Another bunch of nuts are offering free licences to higher education institutions!

Whoa! :P

Serously though, do browsers that one has to pay for have any real relevance in this day... or for that matter, do they have much of a future? I sincerely doubt it.

I'll be glad when the Mozilla SVG Project is complete and integrated into Mozilla. I hate having to revert to using IE when I'm working on an SVG project. (Yes, I also use Batik Squiggle...but the average end user isn't going to be using Batik...)

There is an extension for that.

...when there is a superior and free (beer AND speech!) browser available?

If I'm not mistaken there is an tabbed browsing extension that allows for loading javascript links in tabs.

Then again it may not ...

Also check out Brendan Eich's Mozilla 2.0 must-haves and the Firefox 2.0 Roadmap.

Heres a guide on managing profiles in Firefox: http://www.mozilla.org/support/firefox/profile

I would like the old Netscape 4 "find bookmark" feature to come back. Organizing bookmarks is hellish since it went away.

To be specific, I want to be able to "find" a bookmark within its folder, so I can also find related bookmarks or know where to store a new bookmark, beside the one I searched for.

Reference: Bug #95748

P.S. Seams that links to bugzilla from Slashdot are disabled. Here is the full link you can cut & paste:

https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=95748

I'm using two computers here, but only one is doing movemail. It's actually 1.6 on that machine. Don't know what to tell you, it works here and I didn't even do it either of these ways.

In Firefox it's still possible to search from the location box by using smart keywords. I believe the same feature exists in Mozilla.

Personally I find it invaluable to have the ability to search dozens of search engines from the location bar using a short prefix that I can select.

In Firefox it's still possible to search from the location box by using smart keywords. I believe the same feature exists in Mozilla.

Personally I find it invaluable to have the ability to search dozens of search engines from the location bar using a short prefix that I can select.

The Web Developer Toolbar can validate online and local pages via a button or keyboard shortcut. It uses the W3C one by defualt, but you can change it.

This has been fixed in the trunk for a long time (but not the branch Firefox 1.0 comes from), and will be in Firefox 1.1, whether Mozilla increments to 2.0 or not.

Bug 217527
Bug 264913

If you really, really need a fix now, visit this URL and download one of the nightlies from the trunk [fair warning - some nightlies have some annoying bugs in them, but generally, are pretty good]. It works just fine there, but I'm told requires too many changes to backport into the ff1/mozilla whatever branch.

This has been fixed in the trunk for a long time (but not the branch Firefox 1.0 comes from), and will be in Firefox 1.1, whether Mozilla increments to 2.0 or not.

Bug 217527
Bug 264913

If you really, really need a fix now, visit this URL and download one of the nightlies from the trunk [fair warning - some nightlies have some annoying bugs in them, but generally, are pretty good]. It works just fine there, but I'm told requires too many changes to backport into the ff1/mozilla whatever branch.

Have you actually seen the documentation of Firefox's formats?

The history file, for example, is spectacularly awful. Check out https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=24143 8
(not a link since bugzilla won't accept Slashdot as a referrer) - "please make history.dat easier to parse (i.e., not Mork)"

Some other references to the format:

http://www.mozilla.org/mailnews/arch/mork/primer.t xt
http://jwz.livejournal.com/312657.html
http://www.jwz.org/doc/mailsum.html

By now it should hardly be "unsuspecting."

For those who still don't suspect, you might try Firefox.

And for those of you who think that the new Microsoft Anitspyware product will make everything happy again, they are already buckling under to demands to remove spyware signatures.

Or if you are running Firefox, like you should be, you can just get bugmenot! It gets past all those free reg requirements by using accounts that people have chosen to make public.

Checking the Alexa rankings over the past few months, Google Groups have gone from about 7% of all Google users down to 1% as of a few moments ago. Granted, Alexa is not the most accurate measurement of a site, but it does give some indications as to overall popularity.

This could simply mean that people are becoming more aware about spyware and are removing alexa, or switching to Firefox or even a different OS.

The main difference is the Firefox vulnerabilities were released they had already been fixed. The IE vulnerabilities still f*ck up your computer.

Actually, one of the three hasn't yet been fixed, and my not be. Here's the bug. and here is the Secunia advisory.

But this is all beside the point, as you've once again tried to make this thread about a Mozilla vs Microsoft Browser Flame War. The _point_ is that these exploits are NOT new. If you pay attention to Slashdot (or any one of another of security-related websites) and happen to run IE, you've already been notified about this problem, and if you're smart, you've already done something about this.

Again. This entire article was posted only because no one bothered to actually read the article and realize that it was a minor update to a known vulnerability. If the article was worded that way, I wouldn't be here ranting about it, but it's made out to be a new vulnerability.

An Ad-Aware/FireFox combination has served my parent's computer well for quite sometime. My father's business exclusively uses the above combination with great results.

does thunderbird eventually have a calendar?

Yes, eventually.There's also Sunbird.

is Evolution available for windows

Not yet, but IIRC Novell is porting it to Windows (Ximian is no more).

does thunderbird eventually have a calendar?

Yes, eventually.There's also Sunbird.

is Evolution available for windows

Not yet, but IIRC Novell is porting it to Windows (Ximian is no more).

Not sure if you spotted this tidbit
Mozilla project recommends avoiding c++ libraries.
almost 20 minutes before you posted. so here's the question: is mozilla a "C++ app"?

http://citibank-software-server.new-netbank.citi bank.com

http://citibank-software-server.new-netbank.citi bank.com .secunia.com/temp/

Ironically, at work it's rock-solid... on Windows XP.

Thanks for your comment. Please see this post of mine, from 9 minutes before your post for further clarification. I was stating that issues will still propagate however, in contrast to beliefs of those common users who think firefox doesn't have (had) any issues - the ones who don't follow https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/. That said, there is nothing incorrect about my post, other than the fact that it may be misinterpreted.

I have not looked at the latest code base so my response may very well be wrong, however you may want to keep this in mind when making such a statment:

Perhaps one reason is they are not really using C++ to its fullest extent like here as an example.

my home PC's became infected with Spyware after my daughter installed a malware ActiveX control from a website.

Sounds to me like you could really just do with installing Firefox and preventing this kind of stuff in the first place. IE is a walking security hazard.

If you've got ZoneAlarm or similar installed too, set it so that IE is banned from connecting to anything.

You can even go the extra mile and hide the real IE icon but make a Firefox shortcut with the "blue e" Internet Explorer icon, thus helping people who are just looking for "the web browser". This is the approach I use on parents etc. when I've had to fix their machines after too much spyware - do it right and they barely notice anything has changed.

The problem is easy to solve - just dump that IE pile of junk and mandate that it isn't used on any of your machines. There are much safer alternatives that are mature enough to use instead, and really, there's no need to use IE any more.

If you don't like Firefox, try Opera, the main Mozilla browser or even just Netscape 7. Anything is better than IE!

(Apologies for preaching to the choir - I guess most Slashdot visitors are probably already running alternative browsers.)

pirate things

You don't need admin access to install Firefox. Just download the zip and extract it in a user directory (My Documents or something). You can still use IE for web apps.

The Slashdot editors have been paid by AMDs marketing department to insert these non sequiturs as part of an experimental advertising technique. Personally, I'd never heard of AMD's Alchemy chipset until I read about what a terrible job they were doing marketing it.

Future /. posting: "Several critical IE vulnerabilities were announced this week. With the tech media focused on this, it's going to be impossible for the folks at Mozilla to get the word out about the latest Firefox release."