Slashdot Mirror

Yet another plus to using Mozilla, or Firebird, or Opera, or... Well, another plus to using anything *other* than IE, actually.

Yet another plus to using Mozilla, or Firebird, or Opera, or... Well, another plus to using anything *other* than IE, actually.

Mozilla is a good choice.

Seriously, this is nothing new...suddenly changing the size of the popup ad makes it innovative?

Protocols are pluggable. It's easy to write a component that implements nsIProtocolHandler and define any URL format you want. So yeh, torrent://hostname/filename would work fine, and the torrent protocol handler would be written to do the magic right thing with hostname and filename. Isn't Mozilla c00l?

This RFE does not make much sense.

First, I like to point out that the name of the protocol/application in question is not "Bit Torrent", but "BitTorrent".

This aside, let's differ between two kinds of possible content to be handled via BitTorrent: web content (HTML, images, Flash animations, etc.) and offline content (software, music, video, etc.).

The first kind of data is not suitable for BitTorrent because they are too small. (This is a "basic knowledge" about BitTorrent, if you don't understand why, please refer to general technical readings regarding the protocol.) The second kind of data is mostly not suitable for being embedded into a website, people normally download them and proceed with them outside of their webbrowser.

But even if any data of the second kind is indeed embedded into a website (like a video, although I never watch video embedded in my webbrowser), it's not a good idea to bind this embedding process to BitTorrent, because every "BitTorrent connection" has a lifespan which need to be specifed by the user himself. A file keeps being uploaded after its download completes within BitTorrent, until the user decides to "finish" this file. If a video embedded into a webpage is downloaded via BitTorrent, when should the upload of this same video stop? Immediately after the download completes? Or when the user leaves the website? Both are rather too soon to keep the file healthy alive.

What would make sense, however, is to write a BitTorrent download manager plugin, perhaps a sidebar, similar to the new download manager of Phoenix/Firebird. The user could handle his BitTorrent downloads within the interface of the webbrowser, and at the same time keep control over the lifespan of each of the files being transfered.

In the end, I fully agree with Olivier (Bugzilla comment #1), this is a plugin issue and WONTFIX.

No offense here, but I think the original "bug reporter" has not understood BitTorrent's field of application and mode of operation quite well (and, has not got the name "BitTorrent" right).

Henry 'Pi' James
BitTorrent dev team member

PS: My opinion here is personal and does not represent Bram (the author of BitTorrent) or any other co-developers, although I'm pretty sure they would agree with me.

As the costs for this goes up, the slippery-slope endgame will be that email addresses are registered (like DNS), and mail servers and intermediate systems will have to reject email with unknown endpoints. Actually, this could be cool in a carbomite maneuver sort of way - all 'illegal' email is directed back to the sender along with an additional message saying why it was rejected.

On a personal note, I have a problem with my ISP right now where spam actually chokes my inbound download (because of invalid headers, etc.), so I have to use POP3 Scan Mailbox to roto-rooter the queue before all my mail can download. Major pita. But, I'm hoping to make mods to Thunderbird to allow me to do this in one swell foop, as it were.

I too have noticed that the vast majority of spammers now seem to forge the HELO/EHLO greeting. And as most non-spammers don't, this is actually a wonderful way to catch them. I've even seen them send the IP address of my secondary mail gateway in hopes that my primary mail server would fully trust it (obtained probably by looking up my MX records). I run a mail gateway for a corporate domain an get on average 30 to 40 thousand spams per day. Using sendmail with it's milter programming interface I put the HELO greeting though a very strict check. For those contemplating doing the same...

• Per RFC 2821, the HELO greeting string should be either the FQDN of the sending hostname, or the IP address of the sending system in SMTP syntax (e.g., [1.2.3.4] or [IPV6:abcd::1234]
• Most spammers don't even bother with a domain name, using a random greeting like "sqss7e". If it doesn't have a domain, throw it away. Same if you see an IP address without the [] brackets; it's another dumb spammer that can't read the RFC's.
• Sometimes spammers don't even hide their spammy-sounding names in the HELO greeting even though they go to a lot of trouble to make up legitimate From headers. A good regular expression check for common words like "offers" or "optin" in the HELO greeting can work wonders (but use caution).
• When checking if a spammer if forging your own address, be sure to check for ALL hostnames under your domain (say you have acme.com, then check for both "acme.com" and "*.acme.com", and use a case-insensitive comparison). Also check for ALL your possible IP address even if you don't use them all. A remote site using your own IP or hostname is never legitimate.
• If you are running a gateway, you need to treat outbound versus inbound messages differently. This can usually be done by checking the connecting IP address to see if it is one of yours. Also be sure to check for 127.*.*.* and ::1 (IPv6).
• Be aware that some mail clients are broken and don't send conforming HELO greeting; this includes Mozilla (see Bug 68877). So don't be too agressive with your HELO checks for mail originating from the inside of your organization.

One last note about Forged AOL Spam after talking to one of their postmasters...all their legitimate mail by corporate policy is always sent from within the *.aol.com or *.aol.net domains. This will be in both the HELO as well as a reverse DNS lookup of the connecting IP address. If you don't see this in the HELO and DNS but you see a MAIL FROM for aol.com, it's probably spam.

I wish more big ISPs would provide public information about how to better detect forged mail claiming to come from their sites. For instance if I see a MAIL FROM *@yahoo.com, then should the connecting IP address always be from a *.yahoo.com host? Some ISP's like hotmail seemingly always add in a known predictable header whose absence indicates spam. But I can't reliably make these calls unless the ISPs provide that information. Also, beware that some semi-legitimate sites, like Monster.com forge the sending address on purpose; so if you want to receive resumes you may need to whitelist them.

After Mozilla 1.4 is released, Mozilla Firebird and Mozilla Thunderbird will replace the existing browser and mail parts of the Mozilla Application Suite. Then we can refer to them as Mozilla Browser and Mozilla Mail without confusion.

After Mozilla 1.4 is released, Mozilla Firebird and Mozilla Thunderbird will replace the existing browser and mail parts of the Mozilla Application Suite. Then we can refer to them as Mozilla Browser and Mozilla Mail without confusion.

After Mozilla 1.4 is released, Mozilla Firebird and Mozilla Thunderbird will replace the existing browser and mail parts of the Mozilla Application Suite. Then we can refer to them as Mozilla Browser and Mozilla Mail without confusion.

The other integrated components of the Mozilla application suite, Calendar, Chatzilla, and Composer (the HTML editor application), are not going away, either. We're not sure yet how they'll evolve -- whether they'll become standalone toolkit applications (and if so, based on which XUL toolkit), or popular add-ons to Phoenix (if so, they will need to use its new XUL toolkit).

So this is really a face saving way of retracting the name change. This should definitely put an end to the heat from firebird database fans, without making mozilla.org or AOL legal look like jackasses. Diplomacy at its finest!

So, the *bird names will be used only by developers during a one-month period to refer to the codebase not the product. After that it will be called mozilla browser and mozilla mail. Which is GREAT, because there was NEVER a need to use these pseudo-catchy names instead of just Mozilla/ComponentName building on the brand value and recognition.

Yes, the old Mozilla Application Suite will eventually be no more. It will live on perhaps for a few years on the 1.4 branch, but the Mozilla trunk will change over to Mozilla Firebird and Mozilla Thunderbird after the 1.4 release. For more details, see the Mozilla Roadmap.

i just downloaded mozilla firebird and it's quite good. you guys should give it a spin.

go get a nigtly build here and tell me what you think. much faster and takes less memory than mozilla in my opinion.

Gecko? It's a name of the Engine, which applications are not limited to web-browsing, fortunately.

Well, you've kinda supported my point here. It's an "engine".. let's call it an "engine". And while it's not strictly for "browsing", it is just for rendering HTML:
From the Mozilla FAQ:
"Gecko (formerly Raptor) is the new HTML rendering engine in Mozilla."

All I was proposing was calling it the "Gecko Engine"... And the Gecko browser in turn uses the Gecko Engine.
There's already precedent for this exact model. I mean, picture the "Quake engine". Lots of "non-quake" games use the "Quake engine" and that doesn't seem to throw anyone for a loop... So lots of apps will use the "Gecko Engine", one of them being Gecko the browser....

<a href="http://www.interesting-site.com/featured-sla shdot-content.html">words related to content</a>

According to Mr. Stallman, the MPL software license is a free (libre) software license, but it is not compatable with the GPL.

I found out about this name change earlier this morning as I was looking to change my Phoenix theme. I found that they have made the switch at the main theme site for Pho ... er ... Firebird here. When performing a search on the new name on Google, I found nothing about the Mozilla based browser, but I did find sites about a database I had never heard of before and my first car (1983 pontiac firebird). The results can be found here . Further investigation led me to the Mozilla homepage where the announcement is posted here. It seems that Phoenix Technologies (A BIOS manufacturer) has an embedded browser for some digital systems. Let's hope they don't have to change the name once again due to a few angry users who may become confused when they attempt to open their browser and a database opens instead.

dan

My point exactly. If I had originally created Application X and licensed it under the GPL, accepted patches from people who understood the application was GPL, then I can no longer close source my application.

You can, actually, and many projects have done exactly that (Although usually they just change the license, rather than close the source). You simply need the consent of everybody who can make a legit claim to part of the source. Of course, gathering up all that approval isn't always easy. See, for example, the rather large Mozilla Relicensing FAQ

What you can't do is retroactively close the source of an app. So while you could take Application X, currently under the GPL, and make future versions closed, the GPL'd versions wouldn't be covered. This allows other people to continue working on the GPL version.

If you created some software which you GPL'd, you could later take that same original code and relicense it for another purpose, as long as you hadn't accepted any changes back into the codebase which you had GPL'd. The original version would remain GPL'd of course, you can't take that away.

For example mozilla is dual-licensed to allow Netscape to remain closed source, and have mozilla as open source. Some more info on it is available here.

Sounds like a fine RFE for Mozilla. They'd be the ones to do it right without planting some nasty stuff inside. I think I'll go do that now...

With the default MSIE settings it can't be done when the stylesheet specifies fixed pixel font sizes.

whoa, people still use MSIE? i mean, honestly?

i know, people will mark me as a troll, but really, if you're still using MSIE, you should give the latest mozilla build for windows a try.

i'm telling you, once you try mozilla, you won't go back to MSIE.

Maybe not Mozilla2.0, as that could be confusing for those looking to upgrade their version of Mozilla -- the possiblity of Mozilla1.6 having new fixes that 2.1 doesn't. However, a name based on Mozilla would allow the community to leverage Mozilla's growing name recognition. Something like MozillaLite, MozillaBO (Browser Only), or MozillaB (Browser) to go allong with MozillaM (Mail) would work.

Maybe I got the wrong idea from the Mozilla Developement Roadmap, but it sounded like "main trunk" Mozilla wasn't going to be developed after 1.6 or so. If that is the case, then some browser name based on Mozilla has the benifit of continuing the recognition of Mozilla.

You never know... Mozilla could have a RDBMS lurking in it somewhere. ;)

81653 - FIXED - SQL: Nat - Add native database support
199815- FIXED - SQL: Nat - Add Native DB Support to Projects listing

Of course, you could have found it yourself with minimal effort - look at the first line of the Firebird/Phoenix webpage which says: "Mozilla's Firebird browser is a redesign of the Mozilla browser component, similar to Galeon, K-Meleon and Camino, but written using the XUL user interface language and designed to be cross-platform."

Note the word re-design.

According to the Phoenix (now Firebird) project page, they already went through months of legal investigation and deemed Firebird a perfectly usable and un-infringing name. There is no way they will change it now.

Also, considering the Firebird Database is an open source project, I doubt they would be able/willing to bring up a lawsuit for the name anyhow.

Of course, when you read the article you also get a popup ad

No, I didn't

Ok, look at how Mozilla's Bugzilla usually handles the /. effect (eg. a separate page for /. referals). Setup a simple static page giving people permission to mirror when refered from a /. page. Maybe even have a static copy of your site available as a .torrent and encourage people to use that and start the mirroring process.

True it would be nice if the editors gave these sites some warning, but maybe the webmasters should make some preparations ahead of time.

Camino is a lightweight OS X browser based on the Gecko engine but without the XUL interface of Phoenix, Mozilla, et al.

Phoenix for the Mac is not Camino, though they say official Firebird builds will soon be available for the Mac.

I hunt in my favorite car it's not going to I got to see some neet while on vacation last time I used the other IE it started to look like the the artist formerly known as the shuttle

On August 20, both Firebird and Thunderbird will probably be renamed "Mozilla".

Composer is available in Mozilla, too. Making it stand-alone is going to happen. According to the New Roadmap, the GRE/toolkit will be the basis for all the stand-alone applications such as the browser, mail client, composer, and any other application created using the GRE/toolkit (which could be anything -- as long as it adheres to the MPL). This has been in the works for a long time. I remember hearing about breaking apart the applications way back in early 2002. The GRE was created not soon after, and now we have it being employed to finally create the stand-alone applications that were once fully integrated into the Mozilla process.

Too bad I'm not kidding.

Right. As numbski mentioned, Chimera is now Camino.

You'll also notice that the Mozilla team's MacOS X browser has been renamed Camino. Cars are definatly in style for them.

Have you tried Camino? I downloaded it (0.7) last week while trying to track down an @import problem in Mozilla 1.3 and it's absolutely astounded me. I used to have to use IE 5.2 to do my online billpay (didn't work with Safari or Mozilla 1.0 - 1.3), and Blogger Pro didn't recognise Safari, so I had to keep Mozilla on my system to post to Blogger. Camino executes both flawlessly, has pop up killer and tabbed browsing, and has become my default browser of choice. I haven't run across a site yet that it hasn't processed/read correctly, even Java-heavy sites like PopCap.com or my webmail. Give it a try - you can get it from a link at Mozilla.org.

For whatever reason, this version of Safari, as well as v.71, won't work with the cookies in Bugzilla. On two machines I've tried it on both bugzilla.mozilla.org and our own internal versions of it. Kind of annoying to work with tickets all day at work and have to keep re-logging in. Hopefully this issue has a nice workaround either on the Safari or the Bugzilla side.

I currently recommend a nightly build of Camino instead for these users. It now has a pretty nifty & flexible Google search bar finally (obligatory screenshot). I do miss the spell-as-you-type feature in Safari however.

Mouse Gestures. Custom Keywords.

The editor is called Midas...looks pretty cool.

Don't pay for a browser then. Go to here and download a nightly build of phoenix. Its a very nice browser, I tried the 0.5 version which needs some work, and then tried the nightly build which is not only stable but fast and with good features.

Opera still does not have HTML-enabled email. When writing instructions, for example, it is nice to have bold and italic.

Of course, you pay more for an HTML-capable email client. The additional cost for Mozilla is -39.00 dollars U.S. Don't you just love those negative additional amounts?

Popups? Those things still annoy people? Doesn't everyone use a pop-up blocking browser?

this is a side for geeks. if you use IE, dont use some popup blocker, or/and dont block sides that serve ads, you dont belong here

but maybe your just new, so i'll try to help you. first, get a decent browser. then, block those evil sites

as a side note for any newbies, goatex is evil. you dont want to click on any links going there

I belive if you look at the licensing faq for mozilla, You'll find that you can choose your mozilla license.

Ok, you're right, I tested it out, and this certainly does seem to be a bug. Although I might wonder why you would need to see the source of a 404 page, and what would change from one 404 page to another ;) But nonetheless, it's still a bug. I searched on bugzilla.mozilla.org for any View Source bugs like this, and found a couple that mentioned the reloading problem... but none seemed to mention the fact that it only happens on error headers (I was running Ethereal; it showed me the headers, and only when a 404 returns does this happen). So, I added my two cents to the bug:

http://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=153884

So, hey, there you go. :)

That's great if you can pull it off, but most of us don't have that luxury.

There are five e-mail addresses that can reach me, which get different degrees of spam, due to different abilities to keep them private:

1. The primary address for my ISP is kept completely private - I don't give this address to anybody - not even my immediate family. It's not a word that appears in the dictionary. Only my ISP and I know this address, and the only thing I get from them is the monthly receipt for the bill. This account has not received any spam (at all - not one) in many years, although the mailbox that forwards itself into this mailbox does get spam.
2. My second mailbox is also from my ISP. It forwards everything into the primary address. The idea here is that I can blow away this mailbox without blowing away my ISP account along with it. I give this address to family, friends and some private mailing lists. This address gets some spam, but not very much.
3. The third mailbox is a web-mail box from mail.com. This is my spam-trap address, which I use on all web sites, newsgroup postings, and for my shopping. I expect this one to get spammed, but because it uses a web interface, I can sift through the subject lines and delete the spam without downloading it. The surprising thing is that this mailbox doesn't get nearly as much spam as the next two to.
4. The fourth mailbox is the moderator address for a mailing list I run. Unfortunately, I can't hide this one, since non-subscribers may need it if they have a problem subscribing. It gets spammed extensively. Typically about 40-80 spams a week.
5. Finally, there's my work mailbox. Due to the nature of my job, I must frequently post messages to IETF working group mailing lists with this address, and those lists are mirrored to many web sites. These lists are the only public places that I ever use this address, and the company directory is not accessible to the outside world. This account typically gets 30-60 spams a day.

On the plus side, ever since Mozilla version 1.3 came out, it hasn't bothered me nearly as much. Current Mozilla releases have a spam filter that learns by example. You click a button to tag spam as "junk" and Mozilla constructs its own filters. If it guesses wrong, you click the button to tag legitimate mail as "not junk". After about two weeks of training, it becomes very accurate. I recently returned to work after a week's vacation to find about 210 spams in my mailbox - Mozilla correctly filtered 200 of them into a junk-mail folder with no false positives.

-- David

If you're using XHTML, and serving it as application/xml+xhtml, Mozilla will let you know when your document isn't well-formed.

According to serials.ws (mind the porn popups)

Popups? What popups?

Actually I am begining to ponder wether to start ditching IE and OE on the new machines I see in favor of Netscape.

Mozilla is the Open-Source version of Netscape, and is more-or-less unquestionably better than Netscape or Internet Explorer.

Mozilla 1.3 12.3 MB

Internet Explorer 6.0 (Really impossible to tell since they required the use of the 500k Installer app that downloads the components, but I believe for IE6 + Service Pack 1 (!!!) it's around 18 megs on a win2k box.)