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And, there are tons of other entities besides major labels that provide filtering services. There are music reviews, both in print and online, there are indie record labels (To name just two, I like http://www.quannum.com/ and http://www.ninjatune.net/ but a lot of people on /. might not) that are specialized enough that if you like one of their artists you probably like several of them, and, of course there is the radio. These days, if there is not a good radio station near where you live, that's no excuse. I live in Maryland and listen to http://www.kexp.org/ in Seattle. I discover new artists that I love there all the time. (Rather than listen live or to the archived shows, I use this software: http://www.rogueamoeba.com/audiohijackpro/ I can schedule it to record specific shows that I like and then listen to them on my mp3 player.

Oh, and another thing, whether it's Amazon, or the All Music Guide, or some other place, the Web is filled with "if you like that then you might like this"-type recommendations. Furthermore, in the old days, you might get recommendations from somebody you knew in your town who was into the same kind of music that you are. Now, if you don't know anybody in your town with your tastes, you can probably find a whole group of people online who like the same stuff you do.

So, there are more ways to find music you like than ever before and with the ease of recording and the cost of recording equipment plummeting, there is more music being produced than ever before. (Yes, more bad music, but also more good music.)

In conclusion, the "I'll just listen to Led Zeppelin for the rest of my life" guy (I love LZ, by the way, but I love the wide spectrum of wonderful music out there and can't imagine limiting myself like that.) obviously just isn't that into music, which is fine. It's easier than ever to find great music and if you're using some method where you have to listen to 100 crappy songs for every one good one, then you're not going about it very logically. If, OTOH, you're content to just listen to the same record over and over again, that's cool too, but it can't be blamed on the lack of good music or the difficulty of finding it.

Warner is just jumping on a trend (although small so far) started by mainly electronic musicians on independant labels. I own 3 DVD audio albums that are definately worth it.

Tipper: Surrounded - http://www.gridface.com/reviews/surrounded.html
Amon Tobin: Chaos Theory - http://www.ninjatune.net/ninja/artist.php?id=1
Richie Hawtin: DE9: Transitions - http://www.popmatters.com/music/interviews/hawtin- richie-060210.shtml

The only reason that they are worth it is the fact that the artists are pushing the current boundaries of where recorded music is currently at. All these works were conceptualised and developed as 5.1 surround projects. I hope that this is just the beginning of a wider movement. That said, I don't neccessarily see the value of this kind of thing for Top 40 artists unless there projects are undertaken with this vision - a 5.1 surround mix of most of that stuff will not make any difference.

The WSJ article talks about value adding using ringtones, pictures, remixes, and other features. I think that this is a good idea but if this is seen as a way of resuscitating falling CD sales it is going to be the price that matters. If they can sell this at the same price point as a regular CD then it would probably work but only if the additional content is seen as 'worth it'.

Case in point, the Richie Hawtin DE9: Transitions release was packaged as a DVD and a bonus CD which contained an edited stereo mix of the DVD audio content (which was 97 minutes long). On the DVD was the 5.1 audio mix, interviews, video clips, and best of all, an already encoded mp3 of the audio content. All this content in a package at the price point of a new release CD, worth it? Hell yeah!

If Warner thinks they can charge a premium price for what they are planning then this initiative is doomed to failure. And instead of the low bitrate 'pre-ripped' audio for burning to a CD, how about including an audio CD in the package. CD duplication costs are cheap, just look at the number of AOL CDs, magazine cover discs, and other free CDs given away with nearly everything.

And for some intellectual hip hop with a philisophical bent, check out pretty much anything with vocals on the Ninja Tune label.

same here, most of the films, music and games you find on the torrent network are either

1. paris hilton porn 2. not another teen movie 5 3. britney spears 4. mega maina mmorpg tm

or something like that, and being the type of person who prefers obscure films and music and i've already got a copy of #1. and i only have a ps1 and mostly only play doom, sim city 2000/3000 and transport tycoon on my pc.

so yeah, i do download a couple of gigs of torrents a week, but fortunatley i'm "forced" to pay for my favourite things

in other news i'm also a cinema buff and got ripped copies of each lord of the rings film to occupy me in between seeing it at the cinema and buying the boxed set of all 3, and because i'd seen each really big on a big big screen first i was happy to put up with the crapness in the mean time. (oh and i own bladerunner on laserdisc, niiice!)

and quite a few things i've downloaded i already own (generally mp3 copies of music i already own on vynil, or films i have on vhs). in fact i downloaded an albumn the other day i alrady actually haev on cd, but couldnt be bothered to dig it out of the gigantic box of cds that still largely hasnt been unpacked since we moved house last summer. all probably not fair use according to some laywers.

They *have* music! just because it's not mainstream and you don't know the artists (many of which have international carreers btw! - all the ninjatunes artists for example) doesn't mean it's crap.
You don't have to like the music they sell! But you can't say there's no music there either!

quicktime

Hmm - Forgoing mod points for this..

I thoroughly agree - I looked for any of my favourite bands - and they do not appear in the online stores. I am not an oldie. These stores do have Pink Floyd and Zeppelin - it is more modern stuff they lack. Examples of things I mean is any thing on the Ninja Tune label - which can not really be accused of being oldie stuff -and is popular enough to do regular live events countrywide.

Ninja Tune carry artists like DJ Food, The Herbalizer, Amon Tobin and Mr Scruff - all of which feature big time on my playlists.

I do check up on iTunes - but since none of these artists have been carried since i first checked -I have all but given up on seing my favourites carried.

Nor is Fairplay really anything "new" -- it's basically the same thing as every other online music store, and follows published RIAA specs for DRM systems.

Yes, just like all those other large-scale online music stores we had before the iTMS. Wait, what?

Most people here think "Apple==Good; RIAA==Bad", but for this one, you guys are going to have to get over the cognitive dissonance.

You may or may not have noticed this, but in the grandparent post I made no attempt to make a value judgement of whether what Apple is doing is good or bad. I was just trying to say, it certainly isn't unambiguously bad, and trying to convince the general public that Apple is in a "bad guy" role is, more than likely, going to be an extremely uphill battle.

As for myself, I can see where your viewpoint is coming from, but I don't particularly share it. I would like to hope that Apple's goal is just to sell music, period, and the DRM is there because Apple recognizes that high levels of DRM are a demand made by the supply part of the economic section they've dropped themselves into. Does Apple themselves actively want the DRM? Hell, maybe. I don't know. However, I can plainly see by the technical decisions they have made that they at least recognize that the demand part of the iTMS's economic sector-- you know, the customers-- demands as little DRM as possible. The fact they are at least willing to recognize this means that this is, for the moment, good enough for me. In other words, I consider DRM evil, but I am totally neutral on the specific case of Apple's connection to DRM.

That said, in this case, I do consider the RIAA==evil and Apple==good. I consider my reasons for this reasonable.

The reason I consider the RIAA evil is not just because of the DRM, but because they're an oligopoly, becuase they have a deathgrip on the commercial expression an art that is important to me, and becuase they are using that deathgrip to limit the range and depth of expression within that art.

The primary reason I consider Apple good in this case is because the iTMS carries non-riaa record labels. To me, this means that the iTMS is an exposing force for independent musical artists. To me, this means that the iTMS is a positive thing. I would consider that positive thing to be significant enough it overcomes whatever extent to which the iTMS promotes the use of DRM technologies.

This is just my opinion.

I just bought five albums on iTunes. Not one of them was on an RIAA label. One of the labels I bought from is owned by the artist himself (Pete Namlook's FAX label). The others were similar independent labels (Ninja Tune and Tresor). There is non-RIAA music on iTunes in spades, and I will continue to buy from them.

VJamm Demo

iTunes wins -- why?

1) I can play them on both Windows and Mac OS X.
2) I don't need to copy the music or "backup license files" to my other computers. iTunes' mDNS sharing makes this instant, and automatic. (Note to the cynics - you *can* copy the files to your laptop or something if you want to take them somewhere off your LAN)
3) Ninja Tune (record label) is now on the iTunes Music Store. (Amon Tobin, for instance. [iTunes link])

I'll admit that #3 is more subjective than the others, but they're all part of the same point. It doesn't matter if Wal-Mart sells tracks for 88 cents (how much mindshare does undercutting by 11 cents get them, anyway?) -- they don't have the indie labels I want, they don't have the standards-based network sharing, and they don't support all of the computers I own. iTunes came sooner, better, and with a lot more polish.

I don't think the music labels are big on making themselves a brand identity.

That might be the case for bigger labels (Motown ain't what it used to be), but most small labels (many of which have deals with bigger companies) are big on creating that identity.

Def Jux. Kill Rock Stars. Blue Note. Ninja Tune. Invisible. Fat Possum. Tooth & Nail. Trojan. Moon. Death Row. Every one of these labels has a very distinct brand identity, and, as a result, devotees generally have a very good idea what they're getting.

Personally, I just don't buy CDs from any of the big name American recording companies any more.

Read: NinjaTune

Bah. Radio 1 dumped Solid Steel and replaced it with a stupid talk show.

I think radio in general is pretty bad in most places. They always play whatever the top 100 most popular tracks are which tend to be all pretty much the same drivel.

How about some real "alternative," some stuff from independent labels that have music that isn't as bad?!

Steinski is perhaps better known for another piece of illegal art, his remixes of "Hey Mr. DJ, Play That Beat" aka "The Payoff Mix" aka Lesson 1, followed by two further Lessons, as well as "The Motorcade Sped On", an exposition on the Kennedy assassination.

The U2 song is readily available from Negativland's website.

Please note that I do not recommend this approach if you're looking for major label artists.

Personally, I prefer to fire up soulseek, hop in a chat room, sort the userlist by speed, and start at the top (browsing people's files). I usually keep it to one album per person, and I've noticed that the chat room names actually DO have a lot to do with what type of music you'll find inside.

I don't know what kind of music you listen to but you may want to check out ninjatunes. They are not on the RIAA's list and put out some of the best music I have ever heard. Really fun if you like jazz, electronic, trip hop, and underground hip hop.

Its probably a good idea for us to support these labels than the ones in the RIAA.

I was considering this just the other day as I purchased 2 CDs, one was from an independant UK label - no problems there, but the other was Blackalicious who are signed to Universal. I ended up buying the CD, I've already dowloaded a fair few songs by them and I'd like to see them get some of my money, even if it is only a dollar or two. How else can we donate to bands like this who are unlikely to tour near me any time soon?

More good independent labels:

Def Jux - Home of Aesop Rock, El-P, RJ2D, Cannibal Ox, etc.

Warp Records - Home of Prefuse 73, Two Lone Swordsmen, SquarePusher, Plaid, and former home of Aphex Twin

Ninja Tune - Home of Amon Tobin, DJ Food, Kid Koala, and The Cinematic Orchestra

I guess I'm just lucky. My most favorite label is not on the list. Ninja Tunes. If you like experimental electronic, jazz, underground hip hop, and other forms of electronic your going to love most of the top qaulity artists that come from this label. If you want a good example check the compilation

I think it really depends on who they want to be signed by(or is it to?). If someone "suddenly" petitions to be picked up by a label that wholeheartedly supports the RIAA and everything they're doing right now, then that artist was a sham to begin with. If they're looking to get picked up by people like Ninjatune, or to go along with Chuck D's idea ... well, one of these somebodys is an artist, looking to further and better the art, and the other is looking to make money off of it.

The fact is, people can make music in their own homes now. People can make albums in their own homes. In previous years, you couldn't do that, you had to go to a record company for "the big break" (the chance to make an album).
Take a glimpse at what would be possible without the RIAA getting in the way (and yes, with the technology of today, at everyone's fingertips, they are getting in the way):
90.1 FM WRUV Burlington
Bring The Noise! (note Sat. Oct 26th show)
Ninjatune

Anyone else have links to share with this fellow on how unsigned, unbig-business music can work? ((on a side note I just realized how silly it is for people using linux, a fairly (some might say very) non-big-business thing, to say that non-big-business models can't be adapted in other places))

I can't believe nobody has mentioned Solid Steel yet! I hear they have all of 'em at Groovetech, but I haven't found 'em yet. Contact me if you're interested in them, I wouldn't mind trading some shows ... especially since I don't have them all yet.

Some hints to get you started: First start to read "The Wire", which is not "Wired" (go to The Wire). It's a magazine that knows what happens from month to month. Subscribe, get the subscribers-only CDs they send you, find out what you like, and explore. Don't listen to people who tell you that Trance is the big one these days, or that their old heroes have defined your listening future.

Buy samplers with different artists on it. One that fits the topic is Electronic 01. Try also the Click'n'Cuts compilation series.

Go to festivals like Sonar, Ars Electronica and Mutek, or at least find out what's hot there.

Follow as many leads as you can, be open-minded.

Check out special interest web shops and sites like Brainwashed, .

What you will find is probably that European, especially German, and Japanese artists are pretty much top of the line these days, but that this keeps changing. My most used line at Sonar this year was "We can see that, at least they're German".

Oh yeah, and the recent "Wired" article about electronic music was about five years out of date.

Noise, all.

i come from more of an idm / drum and bass background, so my picks might be a little more biased :)
i like music from these labels:
warp: my personal favorite. quite possibly the largest electronic label out there. artists include autechre, boards of canada, aphex twin, squarepusher, prefuse 73 ....
ninjatine: amon tobin (breakbeat jazz), blackalicious (non bling-bling hip hop), and many others.
stud!o k7: large variety here. they've got everything from idm to breakbeat to jungle to...you name it. great stuff

I don't know about you folks but many of the CDs (albums) I own are quite close if not right on the 79 min mark. Which begs the question, how are they going to fit compressed audio files on some of those? I guess they aren't. This is in fact artificially limiting the size available on CDs today. Way to take two step backwards guys.

Admittedly, I tend not to listen to mainstream music (ninjatune, warp records in the most part so this does not affect me directly for now.... but... what happens if somehow, smaller labels are forced to use this scheme?

The very small labels sometimes have their CDs printed by large manufacturers such as Universal and the like. Might they be subjected to the same protection scheme?

The whole thing just stinks all around. Always has.

... i've seen an interview of the boss of the Ninja Tune Records.
He says that records labels will lose the fight against mp3's. They should have to accept to make money only with concerts, merchandising and so on ... It think it's a very smart point of view

If it simply doesn't work, I'll be demanding a full refund (from the place of sale) and writing the label a nastygram letting them know they've lost my business over it, much the same as I write my representatives nastygrams. If it damages my equipment (as some of these "protection" (read: strongarm) methods are purported to have the ability to do), you'd better believe I'll be in touch with a lawyer.
The Gza admonished us to check the labels, and I do. When I buy new, I consciously look for indie labels' releases before I look to majors.
If copy protection is the myopic way of the future, it'll be exclusively indies and the majors that don't employ copy protection that receive my spending dollars.

I'm suprised that no one has mentioned these guys yet. Besides being the DJ duo behind the Ninja Tune label and that funky remix of Paid In Full back in the day they're big time into open source, activists on IP issues, and they wrote their own to cut/mix video live like a traditional DJ would work a turntable (VJamm). Further, they too have done the internet remix contest deal with their tune Space Journey a few months back. If you haven't heard them before, check them out.

Just my own tastes of course, YMMV:

Check out www.ninjatune.net. Lots of good flash microsites created for their artists. The Amon Tobin microsite is especially good. Coldcut (the guys who started Ninjatune) have also released a software package called VJamm, which is used to sequence video clips to make music. Apparently it can be used in realtime to great effect, although I've never tried it.

Also check out the flash site for Requiem For A Dream. Makes more sense if you've seen the movie, but a very impressive site either way.

Fuck dance. Lets art.