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http://www.openoffice.org/FAQs/faq-other.html#7

Adding some better scripting/macro capabilities should I think become a priority so people can make the same sort of mini-applications which are possible in excel/word

Well, given that they now have support for scripting in Python, things will definitely get better. Of course there's still the issue of the underlying APIs that the scripts are using. Having not actually done any OOo scripting work I can't vouch for those. Generally, though, it does look like they are payng attention to making scripting both easy and powerful.

Jedidiah.

with Firefox now starring as the poster child app

You forgot OpenOffice.org.

http://www.legaltorrents.com/
http://www.xandros.com/products/home/desktopoc/dsk _oc_download.html
http://distribution.openoffice.org/p2p/bittorrent/ download.html
http://www.ferrago.com/
http://syd2.ausgamers.com:6969/
http://www.filerush.com/
http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/faq/blizzarddo wnloader.html
http://www.slackware.com/torrents/

Who is the one living in the bubble here? Personally, I love being able to download popular files quickly. I guess you'd prefer to pay fileplanet for the privilege, hmm?

gp: Sun has contributed more to the open source community than any other corporation.

you: *scoffingly* Maybe Sun has contributed to open standards, but open source (as in licensing)... fuck no.

OpenOffice.Org (among other code) isn't open source?

Here's an example, http://www.openoffice.org/license.html. You tell me. Sun may suck, but they are definitely trying to 'give back'. (Probably less due to altruism as to pragmatism.)

www.sunsource.net
www.opensolaris.org
www.openoffice.org
Sun supports Linux, too

What were you saying?

i find it very difficult to see where WP would be far superior to OpenOffice.

In case you've missed out, you might want to take note that folks in the legal profession have very specific requirements vis-a-vis word count, to the extent that there have been legal snafus caused by incomplete word count functionality in MS Word (link courtesy this post by Animaether).

Given that OOo's word count has had numerous problems, apparently even in the v2.0 beta,, and given how fundamentally important an accurate and simple word count is in so many real-world applications (legal, scientific, academic, business, yada yada), I can see quite easily how OOo would be kept out of the running.

Not meaning to piss on your parade, but OOo's just not there yet. I love it -- it's free, it's functional, but it's also "almost" -- it's soooo close to being what people need, but close isn't good enough in some areas.

i find it very difficult to see where WP would be far superior to OpenOffice.

In case you've missed out, you might want to take note that folks in the legal profession have very specific requirements vis-a-vis word count, to the extent that there have been legal snafus caused by incomplete word count functionality in MS Word (link courtesy this post by Animaether).

Given that OOo's word count has had numerous problems, apparently even in the v2.0 beta,, and given how fundamentally important an accurate and simple word count is in so many real-world applications (legal, scientific, academic, business, yada yada), I can see quite easily how OOo would be kept out of the running.

Not meaning to piss on your parade, but OOo's just not there yet. I love it -- it's free, it's functional, but it's also "almost" -- it's soooo close to being what people need, but close isn't good enough in some areas.

i find it very difficult to see where WP would be far superior to OpenOffice.

In case you've missed out, you might want to take note that folks in the legal profession have very specific requirements vis-a-vis word count, to the extent that there have been legal snafus caused by incomplete word count functionality in MS Word (link courtesy this post by Animaether).

Given that OOo's word count has had numerous problems, apparently even in the v2.0 beta,, and given how fundamentally important an accurate and simple word count is in so many real-world applications (legal, scientific, academic, business, yada yada), I can see quite easily how OOo would be kept out of the running.

Not meaning to piss on your parade, but OOo's just not there yet. I love it -- it's free, it's functional, but it's also "almost" -- it's soooo close to being what people need, but close isn't good enough in some areas.

i find it very difficult to see where WP would be far superior to OpenOffice.

In case you've missed out, you might want to take note that folks in the legal profession have very specific requirements vis-a-vis word count, to the extent that there have been legal snafus caused by incomplete word count functionality in MS Word (link courtesy this post by Animaether).

Given that OOo's word count has had numerous problems, apparently even in the v2.0 beta,, and given how fundamentally important an accurate and simple word count is in so many real-world applications (legal, scientific, academic, business, yada yada), I can see quite easily how OOo would be kept out of the running.

Not meaning to piss on your parade, but OOo's just not there yet. I love it -- it's free, it's functional, but it's also "almost" -- it's soooo close to being what people need, but close isn't good enough in some areas.

i find it very difficult to see where WP would be far superior to OpenOffice.

In case you've missed out, you might want to take note that folks in the legal profession have very specific requirements vis-a-vis word count, to the extent that there have been legal snafus caused by incomplete word count functionality in MS Word (link courtesy this post by Animaether).

Given that OOo's word count has had numerous problems, apparently even in the v2.0 beta,, and given how fundamentally important an accurate and simple word count is in so many real-world applications (legal, scientific, academic, business, yada yada), I can see quite easily how OOo would be kept out of the running.

Not meaning to piss on your parade, but OOo's just not there yet. I love it -- it's free, it's functional, but it's also "almost" -- it's soooo close to being what people need, but close isn't good enough in some areas.

As a fellow OOo user, I say, great! Not great that it's got deficiencies, but great that you're aware of them. Please, I ask you to go over to http://qa.openoffice.org/issue_handling/project_is sues.html, register, and start by looking up those deficiencies -- a lot of my own (and several others') pet peeves have been fixed or at least improved in the move to v2.0. Any issues you've run across that haven't been addressed deserve attention, so go ahead and be specific! File a bug report, and get the ball rolling to make something better. The best MS will do is maybe be polite in ignoring you (c.f. previous comment about problems in Word that show no sign of going away).

You're doing something on a non-professional level, and expect professional level results on the cheap? I don't think its going to happen.

Nah, that could never happen.

To enhance integration of OpenOffice.org with the underlying operating system, all user interface elements (such as buttons and scrollbars) will have the same look as those used in most other 'native' applications for that platform. [My emphasis]

To enhance integration of OpenOffice.org with the underlying operating system, all user interface elements (such as buttons and scrollbars) will have the same look as those used in most other 'native' applications for that platform. [My emphasis]

• Visual Studio .Net Professional 2003 - $528.66
• Office 2003 Standard UPGRADE - $228.59
• Windows XP Professional w/ SP2 - $308.77
• Switching to Linux/OpenOffice/Something from SourceForge - priceless

> 2) new quickstarter is useless, cannot launch apps from it. Annoys me too. Please Vote for it here: http://qa.openoffice.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=30 853

New Features (about halfway down): http://www.openoffice.org/dev_docs/features/2.0/in dex.html/

And XForms is big on Mozilla's to-do list http://www.mozilla.org/projects/xforms/#FeatureSta tus/

I doubt MSOffice will *ever* support XForms unless it becomes entrenched to the point that they have no choice (a la their early 90's view on the WWW).

Say what you will about XForms, but these are the first ventures I've seen from "mainstream" apps to support the technology, which could very well lead to general acceptance of XForms, provided the two implementations complement each other well enough. Free (quality) editor + everyone's favourite browser :) = rich client web apps available on any platform?, sounds like heaven to me. Technologies keep promising this same thing, maybe this one will actually deliver.

You say it will have problems because it is beta - well you have to wait for release date in April or May. Do you expect a project to not have a beta stage?
... and does not have database application?

Any spreadsheet program that doesn't have basic and simple regression analysis is a JOKE. Puh-lease - OOCalc is a JOKE compared to Excel.

Just take a look at these...
http://qa.openoffice.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=17 422
http://www.openoffice.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=3 66

The "intent" has been there since it was StarOffice but these yahoos that are currently coding have NO IDEA what the Prosumer needs/wants. So long as these guys think this is an "enhancement" and not a sorely missing feature OO won't have any credibility.

Feel free to mod me down for telling it like it is. A VERY UNHAPPY OO user (except for data analysis which is why I use MS Office).

Any spreadsheet program that doesn't have basic and simple regression analysis is a JOKE. Puh-lease - OOCalc is a JOKE compared to Excel.

Just take a look at these...
http://qa.openoffice.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=17 422
http://www.openoffice.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=3 66

The "intent" has been there since it was StarOffice but these yahoos that are currently coding have NO IDEA what the Prosumer needs/wants. So long as these guys think this is an "enhancement" and not a sorely missing feature OO won't have any credibility.

Feel free to mod me down for telling it like it is. A VERY UNHAPPY OO user (except for data analysis which is why I use MS Office).

So, add in a copy of Office to compete with Appleworks ($250), a copy of Acid to compete with Garageband ($100), a licensed copy of Acrobat Distiller so that you can create PDFs (it's built in on the Mac), a copy of Adobe Premiere Express to compete with iMovie ($200), a copy of something that can handle full-screen video conferencing (any ideas?), plus a copy of Quicken for your taxes ($30). Oh, and 'cause you're running a Windows box, don't forget the Anti-virus software ($20).

Although I agree with the premise, I have to point out the weakness of this part of the argument. A copy of OpenOffice.org ($0). A copy of PDFCreator ($0), and a copy of AVG Free ($free, duh). You can't say free software is cool on your Mac or *nix box without admitting that it is also available for Windows.

1. Get the current word
2. Look up that word in a spreadsheet (first column)
3. Get the content of the second column in the same sheet
4. Replace the current word with that content.

There's a guide to macros here, but it's in OOo format... and I don't have OOo here at work!

HTH
Justin.

I havent played with it for more then 2 minutes to see how good it is, but a "Access"-ish thing is in OO.o 2.0

http://marketing.openoffice.org/2.0/featureguide.h tml#database

The abridged explaination is that it isnt much more then a GUI front end to what OO.o has always had... Or the DB stuff that went into 2.0, anyway.

The OO.o equation editor syntax is amazing, but it's useless for all but the most simplest of documents until they get the equations properly aligned. Manually aligning fives pages of equations is no fun, I can assure you.

Oh well, back to MathType and Word.

Here's the main OOo BitTorrent page:
http://distribution.openoffice.org/p2p/bittorrent/ download.html

Included is the 1.1.4 as well as the Solaris builds

Let's dispense with the MS-bashing and hoping that this will replace MS Office.

IT WON'T!

Yes, they finally have a database program but you won't see any REAL business/scientist/engineer switch over until they get statistical analysis that comes ANYWHERE near Excel.

You can't even plot regression lines/error bars/regression equations on the curve without figuring out the coefficients somewhere else on a spreadsheet and then plotting them as an equation. Those OO yahoos have been dragging their feet on this one for years.

I'm SHOCKED that there are so few that notice these features as missing, especially from the ./ crowd. Hang your heads low - you are NOT techies!

For reference see this bug and ALL the other linked to bugs...
http://www.openoffice.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=3 66
http://qa.openoffice.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=17 422

Let's dispense with the MS-bashing and hoping that this will replace MS Office.

IT WON'T!

Yes, they finally have a database program but you won't see any REAL business/scientist/engineer switch over until they get statistical analysis that comes ANYWHERE near Excel.

You can't even plot regression lines/error bars/regression equations on the curve without figuring out the coefficients somewhere else on a spreadsheet and then plotting them as an equation. Those OO yahoos have been dragging their feet on this one for years.

I'm SHOCKED that there are so few that notice these features as missing, especially from the ./ crowd. Hang your heads low - you are NOT techies!

For reference see this bug and ALL the other linked to bugs...
http://www.openoffice.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=3 66
http://qa.openoffice.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=17 422

There is track changes, and it looks like they're trying to integrate digital signatures with it. The Electronic Signatures and Encryption spec is very detailed and includes all the benefits that those features will bring. Tracking changes with digital signatures, macro security, signing/encrypting any file format (spread sheets, presentations, pdf, etc) and even just sections of the file.

One things to keep in mind though is that at some point these features turn into Digital Restrictions Management. Allowing reading a document but not printing, for example. That has to be on the OOo team's mind and I'm sure they are looking into options along that route also.
J

Additional file format conforming to the OASIS standard

Exchange documents with any other software that recognizes this standard format.

OpenOffice.org 2.0 and StarOffice 8 use the new OASIS (Organization for the Advancement of Structured Information Standards) standard XML (eXtensible Markup Language) file format as their default file format.

The new file names are the same regardless of the product vendor. You will not only find this new file format used in StarOffice and OpenOffice.org, but also in KOffice and a growing number of products that support this new standard.

Not so cheesy database GUI.

Here.

One thing that was an annoyance about OO.o 1.x was that you needed a complete new installation if you wanted a different language. I have users who have different language preferences using the same system, and while the desktop software (KDE in this case) can be switched, OO.o couldn't.

Well, that's now fixed in 2.0! You can add language packs to an existing installation! spec link

Yay!

-- Steve

PS. Anyone know if Firefox can/will support this functionality?

No.

No engineering work has been performed on Quartz or Aqua development within the OpenOffice.org project since mid 2003. For the last year and a half all engineering work focusing on a native Mac OS X OpenOffice.org version has been concentrated in the NeoOffice/J project, using a combination of Java and Carbon technologies to replace X11.

Due to various licensing, political, and fundamental engineering difficulties it is likely, for the near future, that native Aqua porting work will be based off of the NeoOffice.org project and not under the direct aegis of OpenOffice.org. (from http://porting.openoffice.org/mac/timeline.html)

This was reported on Slashdot a couple of weeks ago.

From the Feature Guide:

WriterPerfect filter

spec link [OO.o document]

Writer

The WordPerfect import filter is supported.

You can now open a WordPerfect document in OpenOffice.org.

Supported, as wes33 observed, by libwpd.

I hope they will fix the problem with inserting java applets into the presentation software some day. If it actually worked, that would be a neat feature that PowerPoint does not have.

http://www.openoffice.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=2 2661

Okay, so the 1.1 to 2.0 feature guide shows there is a new "presentaiton engine" called Impress (PowerPoint?) but it only lists this:

New Presentation engine

spec link

"spec link" is not a link at all, just text.

Anyone have any Impress specs to disclose?

Also, Draw got only one entry in the otherwise lengthy document for the addition of "CustomShape" that allows 3D extrusions:

The Drawing Toolbar has been reworked to provide a rich set of new commonly used drawing shapes such as: Basic, Block Arrow, Symbol, Flowchart and Stars & Banners . Furthermore the huge number of different arrow types in our lines and connectors toolbox has been reduced.

The geometry of CustomShapes is editable by the user through modifier handles. CustomShapes can be converted to 3-D through extrusion and provide 3-D effects for Fontwork. They can be imported / exported to commonly known formats without loss.

Could this be used for a CAD module in the future?

Remember, because it costs almost nothing to make

Oops. Typo? Freudian slip?

Software has a very high cost to make. It requires highly skilled laborers, and lots of time to make. Making high-quality software is difficult, and by the nature of things it's difficult for a programmer to make software that's easy to use.

Notice I never argued against open licenses. Also, I never argued that software costs little to reproduce. It costs about $0.50 to make a CD-R, if you don't mind a vanilla, paper case.

I argued (and still argue) that software piracy reduces the actual saleability of soft wares. It essentially makes a vendor compete against himself, and therefore should legitimitely be called "theft", because doing so takes value away from the goods that highly qualified personnel spent lots of time to create.

If you want to gouge people, then you can hardly blame them for using it and not paying you.

Don't like the price? Don't buy it. Think it's wrong? Write your own open-licensed product and give it away. There's certainly plenty of people who are.

The ONLY time your arguments might have weight is in the case of a monopoly, and in these United States, we have protections for that, too.

Why do you feel the need to justify theft? Your arguments cast a pall from those of us who are dedicated to using and supporting truly open, free licenses on software!

Teaching Linux is like teaching Esperanto: not practical in the real world. Students should be taught skills they can readily use in the real world, and with computers that means Windows. Too bad, its true.

Wow.I can see why you posted that as an AC.

What exactly are these windows specific "real world" skills that we should teach a k-12 student?

Intenet usage?... check
Word processing? Spreadsheets? Presentations?... check check check
Programming?... check
Photo Editing?... check


Is it that Linux looks so different that kids wouldn't be able to find their way around in windows?

I've got a "real world" story for you.
Two years ago I put together one of these k12ltsp labs for a small school of about 300 students ages 5-13. I doubt very many of them had ever heard the word Linux before.
Guess what? They took to it instantly. Even the older kids that were using windows for several years.

The fact is Linux (LTSP especially) is a much more economically viable option for schools.

One more thing. You have the right to your own opinion, but your analogy was weak.
Esperanto provides no immediate benefit. Using Linux saved the school enough budget that they were able to purchase flat panel monitors for the entire lab this year.

You have the classic battle between OpenOffice and Microsoft Office.
After just Linux and OpenOffice installed, it will be evident the advantages are much greater than using Microsoft products, namely because of the price. If these guys are donating thousands of computers to schools, reducing software price from $200-300 per unit to $0 is going to enable them to construct out quite a bit more labs.

There are quite a few Gnome applications which would help in everyday usability. Of course, Gnome or KDE would probably be your desktop of choice, especially if the organization is coming off of Microsoft Explorer; keep it familiar to effectively show advantages.

You didn't specify what type of educational environment the labs target, but for programming Anjuta is a great alternative to Microsoft Visual C++.

A few other mentionable applications would include Mozilla Firefox (over Microsoft Internet Explorer), and The Gimp (over Photoshop).

For networking with existing Windows labs, Samba is an effective alternative.

In a perfect world, we'd run perfect software. We're not in a perfect world, and most of it uses MS software, so lets patch the holes with the tools we're given. If everyone on the road drives a ford, and fords have X mechanical problem, do you tell people how to fix the problem, or do you tell them to buy a toyota? I mean, be reasonable. maybe NEXT time they'll buy a toyota, but for now, they've GOT a ford.

Options like Mozilla, Firefox, Opera, Thunderbird, Eudora, and OpenOffice.org, to name a few for starters, should at least get a mention. They work here and now, even on MS-Windows. Aren't we talking about technology where we can choose the best tool for the job or is it a religion where we all face Redmond and bleat "yaaaay Bill!" ?

By neglecting to mention better options, even those options usable by MS systems, the site does two disservices. First, it turns an otherwise good idea into a state sponsored marketing campaign for a single vendor. Second, it keeps people in the dark, preventing them from improving their existing systems or to making more informed choices in the future.

Along the same lines, further proactive effort is needed to prevent defective systems from becoming a problem in your cars, television sets, taxes, public records or health care. All ofthis makes a good illustration of why commodity services and protocols are good for the market by preventing lock in.

Unlike MS Office, OOo supports several open file formats, including OASIS' OpenDocument which is already on it's way to being supported by dozens of applications -- but not MSO. Losing control of the file format means that MS would eventually lose that revenue stream. That's why it's lobbying so hard to force sw patents into the EU and to hinder further spread of open standards everywhere.

Open standards are what made the Internet and the WWW possible. There were many networks and even some internets back in the 60's and 70's but none took off because being proprietary prevented easy adoption. Enter TCP/IP and later HTTP and HTML.

They know. They just seem to have other plans...

"maybe has a little less support"

When you have "26,000 desktops", commercial support is not a factor, because you have your own support staff. Also, my experience with Open Office is that the help messages are better and there are fewer serious quirks than Microsoft Word 2000. (I've never tried Office XP because I decided to get off the Microsoft time waste train.)

I'm guessing governments have not adopted Open Office sooner because most government officials did not have enough technical knowledge to feel confident in committing thousands of desktops to something that didn't come from Microsoft. It is "you can't get fired for choosing Microsoft, even if the software doesn't work well".

When someone chooses a software package, they are choosing business partners, because so much staff time is invested in becoming comfortable with software and in using it. Officials are beginning to think about this: Is is sensible to want to be the business partner of a company that has been so adversarial toward its customers, and which produces software of amazingly bad quality?

If you test Open Office, be sure you test the latest version, 1.1.4. Version 2.0 will be available in April or May of this year.

Generally, when you send documents outside your company or organization, it is better to send PDF files. That guards against accidental changes. To make PDF files in Open Office, just click the PDF icon in the toolbar. To do this in Microsoft Word, install additional software.

"maybe has a little less support"

When you have "26,000 desktops", commercial support is not a factor, because you have your own support staff. Also, my experience with Open Office is that the help messages are better and there are fewer serious quirks than Microsoft Word 2000. (I've never tried Office XP because I decided to get off the Microsoft time waste train.)

I'm guessing governments have not adopted Open Office sooner because most government officials did not have enough technical knowledge to feel confident in committing thousands of desktops to something that didn't come from Microsoft. It is "you can't get fired for choosing Microsoft, even if the software doesn't work well".

When someone chooses a software package, they are choosing business partners, because so much staff time is invested in becoming comfortable with software and in using it. Officials are beginning to think about this: Is is sensible to want to be the business partner of a company that has been so adversarial toward its customers, and which produces software of amazingly bad quality?

If you test Open Office, be sure you test the latest version, 1.1.4. Version 2.0 will be available in April or May of this year.

Generally, when you send documents outside your company or organization, it is better to send PDF files. That guards against accidental changes. To make PDF files in Open Office, just click the PDF icon in the toolbar. To do this in Microsoft Word, install additional software.

But none of this happened. Netscape was wiped out, IE dominance is settled even despite IE again looking pathetic in comparison to Mozilla's newest breed. Office still rules and there is nothing to beat it. Open Office? Well, for simple documents and spreadsheets maybe yes. And yes, it has improved a lot over last few years. But still for serious word processing, I'm sorry, but no.

Also Linux is still a great server OS but still can't be considered seriously for the desktop for non-geeks. I've installed Ubuntu three days ago. I was really amazed how little has changed since three years ago when I, sadly, abandoned Linux as my desktop. Again, a few things that can't be done in any other way but by editing config files with, say, vi. I enjoy vi and I still remember what to edit, but does a simple user? And no access to most of applications without reading manuals and adding additional repositories of .deb packages (mostly for ideological reasons). It is not "install and work", it's still "install and then tweak the things around to get anywhere". This is the part of the mix that makes OS X a success - some OS X users I know were not even aware there was a command line on their system until I showed them. Now, that's how a modern GUI OS should be designed. If there is a Linux distro to match this please let me know, but I think I'll end up buying a PB when I'll save enough money to do it.

And in the meantime Microsoft has improved a lot. XP is stable, easy to use and I'm yet to have a virus infection or anything after three years of having it on my PC (which is connected to the net 24/7 on a public address, BTW). Also Office has improved a lot in terms of stability and reliability. I remember using Office 97 which without SR-1 crashed a lot and we had lots of problems with it. Office 2003 I use now is rock stable. This is not exciting, this is nothing new but maybe in these days of computing becoming commonplace (and programming & sysadmining becoming a blue-collar commodity job) what is needed is not excitement but solid, predictable functioning? Can you think of a killer feature now missing from, say, Word that would excite the masses?

So, maybe Microsoft is just maturing with the market. They were a geeky sweatshop when computing was the new, exciting field. They are a solid, respectable, middle-aged corporation now. So, I don't think we will see them sinking anytime soon.

it won't be as bad as the mascot from OpenOffice.org's Schools Project.

it won't be as bad as the mascot from OpenOffice.org's Schools Project.

I had to make a quick check and there it is - http://ja.openoffice.org/index.html

Looks good to me but I do not speak a word of japanese.

There are civil as well as religious uses for this -- e.g. in Maryland, Good Friday and the Monday after Easter are school holidays.

Once upon a time I had a program which knew Easter, Yom Kippur, Ramadan, the start and end of Daylight Savings Time, the phases of the Moon, and could convert all it to the Mayan calendar. One could Easily Manipulate and Add CalendarS. Can't think of the name, though. It will come to me presently.

The algorithms to calculated the holidays (not the Regicon) are publicly available and well documented. There are even ready made modules like Date::Cac to name the first one that comes to mind.