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Did you get one, or know anyone who received one of these? Visit the US Pirate Party.

Too little too late. Fuck their apology, damage is done.

What? You became a member of the US Pirate Party? Otherwise there is little to no damage done to the real perpetrators of this crime. Canadians go here.

why should I have any moral obligation to pay them again to watch the same episodes just in a different format?

Because you don't believe strongly enough in a rollback of abuses of copyright law to deny yourself, pick up your Pirate flag, and run for the House in your congressional district. (I don't blame you; neither do I, at least not yet.)

Yet, it's still illogical to blame pirates and create artificial scarcity. Also:

http://thevenusproject.com/ [thevenusproject.com]
http://memwiki.pirate-party.us/But_How_Will_the_Artists_Get_Paid%3F [pirate-party.us]

This is what I read:

This kind of "honor system" works when people realize that they get screwed when they don't support the artists. If there's no money to be made, then artists won't produce anything.

From here, I gather that they should get paid via some kind of honour system?? But if pirates won't honour their wishes now, in the face of copyright law, how in the hell would they pay the artists without copyright? Please I want to know how law-breakers would suddenly stop what they are doing as soon as it becomes legal...

That page is simply hilarious. It shows both complete unawareness of how creative works are made, and a horrible sense of entitlement, that because people desire something, they should have it as long as it can be digitally copied.

Also, the creator is actually 'harming' them by 'depriving' them of the possibility of future gain (free entertainment) by not letting them merely download their works.

A sense of entitlement that you apparently share. Also here you finally widen your definition of the word harm. Good for you. You also apply my logic ass backwards, as expected. They are not deprived, because the artist is not obliged to give it to them or allow them access. Can you get that through you entitled head? If the artist wants to give it, it is the artists prerogative. If the artist wants to exchange for it, it is the artists prerogative to name the price. It is the consumers prerogative to accept the price, or reject it.

No need to repeat yourself, just tell me how that logically translates to harm even though they're left completely unaffected (unaffected doesn't mean that they are worse off than before).

Please read my post about the high school student and the scholarship. It's just below my last reply. I hope that's logical enough for you.

Which is what is being debated. I don't believe that people are inherently entitled to these future gains unless one of the following conditions is met:

A) Someone has directly asked them to perform a job for them while promising a certain amount of money for completing the job, and the artist completes the job.
B) Someone has actually stolen something that they already had.

Indeed, in your world, creators of art are not entitled to anything (except maybe attribution), only you and the consumers are. What a horrible world that would be.

Pirates don't even interact with the author in the least. They merely copy their content, and the author is likely completely unaware that a specific person just copied their work. They remain completely unaffected, unknowingly to them.

Please consider my analogy about the student and the scholarship, but imagine the scholarship board and the parent doing this without the student's knowledge. In my view, it's still harm. Yours?

I have repeated myself many times

You said it's because they lose the possibility of future gain, but if they never had the gain in the first place, it can't translate to harm. No need to repeat yourself, just tell me how that logically translates to harm even though they're left completely unaffected (unaffected doesn't mean that they are worse off than before).

Because as you have admitted in other posts, you, and other people who think as you do, have no good system to replace this.

Yet, it's still illogical to blame pirates and create artificial scarcity. Also:

http://thevenusproject.com/
http://memwiki.pirate-party.us/But_How_Will_the_Artists_Get_Paid%3F

It does not save them from any harm because if they pirated something and enjoyed it, they were not in danger of being harmed, but it wrongfully harms the creator.

It saves them from the much more critical harm of losing currently valuable money for entertainment that is in an infinite supply while leaving the original creator completely unaffected. Also, the creator is actually 'harming' them by 'depriving' them of the possibility of future gain (free entertainment) by not letting them merely download their works.

It is not the benefit the consumer receives that is the issue, but the lack of benefit the creator of the work receives.

Which is what is being debated. I don't believe that people are inherently entitled to these future gains unless one of the following conditions is met:

A) Someone has directly asked them to perform a job for them while promising a certain amount of money for completing the job, and the artist completes the job.
B) Someone has actually stolen something that they already had.

Pirates don't even interact with the author in the least. They merely copy their content, and the author is likely completely unaware that a specific person just copied their work. They remain completely unaffected, unknowingly to them.

National Pirate Parties acknowledge that their name is hyperbole. According to the web sites of a couple national Pirate Parties, they have "adopted the very term employed by associations and copyright maximalists, intended to demonise and promote further and more strict criminalisation of file sharing and free culture distribution, and used it to identify ourselves as a means of drawing attention to the fallacious nature of the label." Compare the "Democratic Party" back when "democrat" was a pejorative term for supporters of mob rule. Web sites of national Pirate Parties make it clear that the platform is one of reform.

How can you propose change to a law when you don't have a resultant state?

I already linked to one. Perhaps a bit unreasonable at this time, but still.

But you've been saying the problem is rooted in our society, in which case the only solution would be to start over.

Many things would change, but not necessarily everyone. It wouldn't "start over," it would change drastically.

Live in a non-monetary society like you have been saying is the answer.

Of which there is none like the one I linked to.

And with regard to African-Americans the answer is no, they changed the laws, whereas you said the problem is because of our capitalist society.

Exactly, they changed the laws. They didn't just change the laws, they changed society, too. Perhaps not the same targeted portion of society, but society nonetheless. The laws are what I'm targeting right now, but just because they intertwine with society itself does not mean that the situations aren't similar.

No it's that 'exclusivity of distribution' has value in our society just money has value in our society.

How does that have value? You still haven't explained how someone copying something harms them. Why should they have this 'right'?

In our society would you be accepting if someone deprived you of all of your money just because it only has value in our society?

They actually stole something that I originally had. Again, why should this 'right' even exist when it clearly doesn't make sense? It's precisely one of the things I'm fighting against.

Substitute one flawed solution for another then.

Everything is flawed. Some things are just less flawed than others.

You are talking about changing the basis of our society.

Change is change. A society changing drastically is still change. A society changing its laws is again, still change. They are similar.

Yes, I am talking about that. But I also am not claiming that it's the only solution.

I saw another comment that links to this. I make no claims that there is only one solution.

To rephrase - if all of the content that you are illegally downloading today were to disappear from the world tomorrow, would you miss it?

The answer is no. If I wasn't ready to fork $$s to buy it why would I miss it?

If yes, then how would you propose that society creates incentive for artists to create such content *without* copyright laws?

The problem isn't copyright per say it is the excess of it. It is the excessive control that some want to impose. it is the logic of profit profit profit no matter what the cost is. it the sensation that we're getting screwed and we have nothing to says or do about it. the link in the post bellow is not bad at at all, you may want to read it ... http://memwiki.pirate-party.us/But_How_Will_the_Artists_Get_Paid%3F

If no, then why are you illegally downloading that content in the first place?

availability, it was there. I want 1M$ -who doesn't?- but I'm not actively seeking to robe a bank to get it, but if I found a suite-case full of money --knowing that no one will miss it--, why would i not take it?.

http://memwiki.pirate-party.us/But_How_Will_the_Artists_Get_Paid%3F

I suppose I'll start giving more support to devices like Openmoko (doubt that's going to become illegal)

Carriers can refuse service to any device that they want. GSM, for example, has the EIR which allows for a "blacklist" of unapproved IMEIs. Ostensibly, EIR allows disabling stolen handsets, but it can also be used to give zero bars to any device that doesn't implement whatever digital imprimatur scheme the IFPI-beholden carriers choose.

or worst case, give money to the Pirate Party or whoever tries to reverse it.

Let me know when the Pirate Party has gained even one seat in the United States Senate.

But at least I can vote and try to get others to vote the corrupt scumbags out of office

In the United States, neither the Republican platform nor the Democratic platform includes rolling back the entertainment industry land-grabs of the 105th Congress. All three bills I'm thinking of (NET Act, Bono Act, DMCA) passed both houses by a voice vote. I'll believe you once a Pirate gets elected to Congress.

I actually think there is room for a real grassroots movement (not promoted by an advertising agency on behalf of people with vested interests).

They tried that in 2008 with Ron Paul. But at the primary debates, Paul couldn't a word in edgewise because the MPAA controls the TV news media.

or a P, or C

Then vote third party. Pick your ideology:

Pirate Party
Libertarian Party
Green Party

Don't think of it as a wasted vote, think of it as a vote against the current system.

Great. I'm sure these guys will help, too.

- if you are a singer, record a song and place it on youtube
- if you are a writer/poet, write a short story, poem, etc. and publish it
- I'm not really that creative, but I'd "borrow" the design of a speed limit sign for the local area and put it up everywhere with the web address on it as well.

COPYRIGHT
L I M I T
. . 2 0
years

etc.

If I remember correctly, there was one 'established' party (other than pirate party affiliate) in the Netherlands that had copyright reform (15 years?) in their platform for the elections this year.

http://www.pirate-party.us/news.php

But depending on the candidates, various Libertarian/Constitution party members will oppose intellectual "property" in its current form based on various extensions from the original constitution which contains much more sane terms. Of course some of them actively support it, so it just really depends on the candidate.

I can't speak for the parent poster but personally I'm working on it.

We just launched a new site so the forums are a bit sparse. We're still working out the kinks in the organization and it sure will be a long hard road but at least I feel like I'm finally doing something about it instead of bitching on the internet and getting pepper sprayed at protests.

On a side note, we need a catchy slogan. How about "Vote to Revolt"?

How about voting for the US Chapter of the Pirate Party?

Cosigned. I'd like to see a Pirate Party US movement.

There is one: http://www.pirate-party.us/ I believe the problem over there is that, (unlike here in the UK) you need to register your party state by state & they all seem to have different byzantine regulations. Here you only need to register once to cover all of the UK except Northern Ireland where not even the major parties put up candidates because it has a whole politics of it's own due to historical reasons.

From what I've heard it's also harder to get on the ballot over there (here any old person can stump up £500 and be put on the ballot at a general election, or in local elections find 10 friends\family to propose him\her and do it for free).

http://www.pirate-party.us/

I like your ideas, may I subscribe to your newsletter?

ARRRG!

Did the Pirate Party exist when you last updated your list?

Maybe not soon, but just maybe a ghost of a chance?

For anyone who is interested, there is also a Pirate Party of the United States. It appears to be based on similar ideas as other pirate parties.

... which appears to have done diddly squat over several years (the USPP was "founded" in 2006) in terms of fundraising and base building, despite Americans being more politically engaged during that time than they have been in generations.

Of the six offices that comprise the USPP's "leadership", three are vacant and two more will become so this month. To the best of my knowledge, they've fielded no candidates for office at any level and have not organized enough people to win ballot access in any state.

In short, my question is: have these guys done anything over the last three years beyond buying a domain and dumping Drupal on it?

I'd recommend getting an answer to that question before you give them any money.

... which appears to have done diddly squat over several years (the USPP was "founded" in 2006) in terms of fundraising and base building, despite Americans being more politically engaged during that time than they have been in generations.

Of the six offices that comprise the USPP's "leadership", three are vacant and two more will become so this month. To the best of my knowledge, they've fielded no candidates for office at any level and have not organized enough people to win ballot access in any state.

In short, my question is: have these guys done anything over the last three years beyond buying a domain and dumping Drupal on it?

I'd recommend getting an answer to that question before you give them any money.

There is a US Pirate Party!

http://www.pirate-party.us/

> I say: Vote for the Pirate Party!

You should say it like this:

Vote for the Pirate Party.

> From TFS : all new computers ship with the 'Green Damn' Internet censoring program. Is that a typo or the reaction of Chinese men, when they discover, that they can't surf porn anymore?

I'd say that it's both, but the typo isn't quite accidental. Maybe I shouldn't have used it there, but what can I say? I guess I'm a bit prone to abusing language as a form of protest. The Chinese do it too. I suggest looking up the issue with the "grass mud horse" or "river crab" (harmonious) society. Both of those terms have been used to evade censorship, too, incidentally.

For whatever it's worth, the correct name of the censorship software is "Green Dam" though I have no idea if we'll have to start calling it something else due to censorship. Incidentally, the Chinese net censorship initiative is called "Operation Golden Shield," so they like use colour adjectives for some reason. I'm not really sure why.

- I Don't Believe in Imaginary Property

P.S. In the unlikely event that people are wondering if I'm the same guy as before, given that I sometimes use the Facebook link as well as the EFF donate link, I am. I didn't start it, but I do endorse the Facebook group, which I believe was started by the fine folks at Against Monopoly. I'm not, personally, a Libertarian, mind you, though I find a lot of common ground with that group. My personal views don't mesh well with any particular political group, save perhaps the Pirate Party, which has a rather limited party platform.

Maybe a link to the US pirate party platform would be helpful for those who are incapable of googling.

Rumour has it in Sweden that the german Pirate Party is also growing in numbers.

As a member of the swedish Pirate Party I would like to ask any german /.:ers to at least visit their site and just read.

Changing things is not as difficult as the other parties would have you believe. People just have to realize that they can really win. Your opponents would love to win on walk-over, so don't let them.

The swedish Pirate Party has moved up from 7th place in membership numbers to 4th place. After slowly moving into the media spotlight for a few years, this latest shift took 3 days. We will most likely be taking over 3:rd spot in a few weeks time. People are finally starting to understand that things can change.

Think about that if you live in Germany or the rest of Europe:
* Things can change
* It is up to you to switch to the Pirate Party
* Don't give up at the first setback.

Did you know there is a Pirate Party in the US as well?

A day late and a dollar short...

There is a pirate party in the US. http://www.pirate-party.us/

When will we get a meaningful dialogue about intellectual property and royalties?

A lot of the major publishers of non-free entertainment works are headquartered in the United States of America. These publishers also own all the television news media. The copyright pendulum will start to swing from overly favoring incumbent publishers once people from a party not owned by the entertainment industry get elected to the U.S. House of Representatives. How can U.S. citizens like myself make that happen?

how hard would it have been to check the link? http://www.pirate-party.us/. Sheesh.

The US pirate party's website is at http://www.pirate-party.us/
(an AC posted an incorrect link, hmm... malice vs. incompetence... it was only missing a hyphen...)

The original swedish pirate party is at http://piratpartiet.se/

I Don't Believe in Imaginary Property

Those 1-3 submissions come from 5-6 submissions per day as you can see in the Firehose. Sometimes, you'll have some I submitted yesterday mixed with those submitted today as you can see right now. I submitted the earlier story about printers yesterday, but this one was submitted this afternoon. Again, you can see all this on the Firehose, which date stamps them when I submit them.

Although someone replied to you that I was Zonk's sock puppet, I have no link to any of the Slashdot editors as far as I know. Heck, I'm not even in the top 10 submitters or all that close. As you can see, there are many who have even less of a life than I do (or something) and have hundreds of submissions. New York County Lawyer keeps flirting with the #10 spot, and I think you guys know how much he posts.

As for my motive, well, it's mostly just for fun while I slack off from my work as a sysadmin for a place that makes windows (the glass kind, not the Microsoft kind). Sure, I have an agenda to push, but I'm just some guy who fits entirely too many Slashdot stereotypes, which is why I link to the EFF donate page, or to that "I Wouldn't Steal" page the EU folks made. I should probably link to the US Pirate Party more often, too.

I use an unregistered account for a number of reasons. One is that I'm doing this from work. Another is that anyone who believes as I do is free to share the ID and post stories to Slashdot.

Unlike the others who dump as many submissions as they can, I try to cull what I think are the best stories of the day. I frequently ignore stories that later appear on Slashdot anyhow. An example from today would be how the UK ISPs put out a statement that they're against policing users. The statements are new, but the story isn't. I just covered it yesterday, so I felt it was too much of a rehash and ignored it. When I think there's something new, I try to link to the previous stories and give better coverage.

Also, you may have noticed that I try to be diligent in marking PDF (and .DOC) files, naming unnamed 'researchers' who discover things, giving you the original story where possible (rather than some sites re-re-re-report of whatever), linking to Wordpress and similar blogs via Coral Cache (and seeding the cache by visiting the site BEFORE I send it to Slashdot). Not to mention whichever other random ideas that come up periodically when someone writes a (+5, Insightful) saying "Why the HELL didn't you do X???" I've had to rewrite more than one headline to fit in the length limits without a damn ? at the end, bite my tongue to avoid hilarious and snarky quips I would like to add as the last line, and find those damn typos that manage to sneak past me even though I spell check my submissions.

So, that's it in a nutshell. If you don't like me, I'm sorry, but there's not much I can do about that, though I'm open to reasonable suggestions. I have no idea when I'll get too bored or busy to continue. I have no idea if people will ever take up posting in "my" name. But that's who and what I am and I'm always trying to find ways to make better submissions.

In other words, except for the attention-grabbing name, I'm a pretty typical Slashdotter.

- I Don't Believe in Imaginary Property

Legally, they may indeed have that right. Laws are so screwed up and people get ridiculous when protecting that which they imagine to be their property.

But, even if they do have that right, they shouldn't. Fair use has been so marginalized that I wonder how you can sell pictures at all any more. How many public places can you take a picture of without capturing a piece of someone's advertising or a company logo, or a product sold by someone? I mean, SOMEONE made the furniture in my house. SOMEONE made the house that I live in. And every one of those people presumably has just as much right as Ford. I can't sell a picture of my own damn house if one is to believe these legal claims, because I didn't make most of the things inside it.

But this is exactly why I want to eliminate the ridiculous laws concerning imaginary property and I support the Pirate Party.

My current car is a Ford. My next car will not be.

Theft being wrong isn't a business model, it's a moral model, and one that civiliztion is more or less based on.

The RIAA's method of threatening to sue random people with expensive lawsuits unless they settle out of court, while of course fulfilling the signs of theft insofar as property is exchanging hands due to coercion, is called extortion. And yes, it is very wrong.

As for civilization, it is based on the ability to communicate abstract concepts and the resulting cumulative culture and division of labor. Copyright law, as perverted by the RIAA, MPAA and their ilk, is disturbing this process, and could become a serious problem as access to information becomes more and more dependent on technology if it isn't dealt with now. Thankfully, there are some brave people fighting this modern-day Nidhögg; let us help them, before it chews the very roots of our culture.

Copyright shouldn't create monopolies for the sake of milking the public for money for the next century. It should create strictly limited monopolies to recoup development and publishing costs of the work. The copyright laws of today are completely counter-intuitive and unfair. I enjoy many works which were published over a decade before I was even born, and yet a monopoly is still held on them.

If you think this is far-fetched, pay The Pirate Party a visit. Action must be taken if we want anything to change.

Well, so far as candidates, the choices are slim, but if you need a political party that cares about copyright reform...http://pirate-party.us/

We already have one. They're currently looking for graphic artists, lawyers, and writers/journalists that would like to help out, as well as researchers to contribute to the State Ballots wiki. Any help is greatly appreciated, I'm sure, even if it's just a small donation.

We already have one. They're currently looking for graphic artists, lawyers, and writers/journalists that would like to help out, as well as researchers to contribute to the State Ballots wiki. Any help is greatly appreciated, I'm sure, even if it's just a small donation.

We already have one. They're currently looking for graphic artists, lawyers, and writers/journalists that would like to help out, as well as researchers to contribute to the State Ballots wiki. Any help is greatly appreciated, I'm sure, even if it's just a small donation.

How about this question:

Would this bill block the new Presidential Candidate Obama's social networking site?
http://my.barackobama.com/

He is allowing people to create profiles, write blogs and interact with other people. If Obama's site is not blocked according to this bill, then where is the difference between his and MySpace, or any other website on the internet?

Or how about the Pirate Party of the US forums?

Dude, before you assume this or that, please at least read the US analogue site's issues page: Issues.

Yes, it's hard to believe, but they actually foresaw that there would be some international interest in this whole thing. :-)

By the way, thanks for posting the HTML as plaintext - made quoting easier.

(Oops... Forgot to set "HTML". I should probably use 'preview' once in a while.)

Wow.

Dude, before you assume this or that, please at least read the US analogue site's issues page: Issues.

As you can clearly see, the US Pirate Party is not advocating abolition of copyright, they're advocating shortened copyright - 14 to 28 years - and repeal of the DMCA. Now, I can't read swedish, but I assume that their stance is similarly reasonable in context of Swede law.

Wow.

Dude, before you assume this or that, please at least read the US analogue site's issues page: Issues. </p>
<p>As you can clearly see, the US Pirate Party is not advocating abolition of copyright, they're advocating shortened copyright - 14 to 28 years - and repeal of the DMCA. Now, I can't read swedish, but I assume that their stance is similarly reasonable in context of Swede law.</p>

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