Slashdot Mirror


White House Cracks Down On Piracy & Counterfeiting

GovTechGuy writes "On Tuesday the White House made a show of rolling out an expansive new strategy to combat online piracy and counterfeit goods, to the delight of industry groups. The plan emphasizes targeting foreign websites that host pirated software and movies and increasing the number of investigations and prosecutions by the FBI, FTC, and Justice Department. Here is the complete plan, introduced by the new 'copyright czar,' Victoria Espinel."

323 comments

  1. The people lose again by betterunixthanunix · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Well, once again, the major parties fail to work for the benefit of the people, and focus instead on the interests of large corporations. No surprises there I guess.

    --
    Palm trees and 8
    1. Re:The people lose again by betterunixthanunix · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Yes, because it is so far fetched to wonder why the federal government is working for the exclusive benefit of the same corporations that are waging a campaign to bankrupt college students, instead of working to making college education more affordable.

      --
      Palm trees and 8
    2. Re:The people lose again by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Piracy is not shoplifting.

    3. Re:The people lose again by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Congratulations! You win the first Idiocy Award for conflating physical with intellectual goods as if the distinction hasn't been made millions of times in prior discussions. Bend over and accept your award.

    4. Re:The people lose again by DarkKnightRadick · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      There is a difference between a physical good and a virtual good. Virtual goods (such as digital music, software, music, etc.) can (and are) copied endlessly with little to no cost. The same cannot be said of food and other physical goods.

      --
      "There is a way that seems right to a man, but its end is the way of death." Proverbs 16:25 (NKJV)
    5. Re:The people lose again by hhedeshian · · Score: 1

      And then we wonder why college students spend their money on drugs. Well, it's cheaper than a dvd and it lasts the whole night, not 95 minutes. Frankly, drugs and booze are far more entertaining than "Ice Age 65764 R2 Second Edition Professional Collectors Shiny Foil on Box"

    6. Re:The people lose again by interkin3tic · · Score: 1

      the major parties fail to work for the benefit of the people, and focus instead on the interests of large corporations

      Was there a 3rd party candidate for presidency who was running on a platform which included "Don't do anything to enforce intellectual property rights?" And if so, is the reason they didn't get elected -really- because they weren't with one of the two parties?

      Because if not, then it might not be an issue with the parties, it might be an issue with an apathetic public and several industries having effective lobbying campaigns that would work to their benefit whether there were two parties or a hundred.

      Money always finds receptive ears in government, no matter what the party structure is like.

    7. Re:The people lose again by commodore64_love · · Score: 0

      If the government was acting in OUR interest, it would force places like Walmart to accept returns of CDs and DVDs. If I was able to buy stuff, discover it is shit, and then return it for refund, I would not need to follow my current practice of downloading-before-buying. It's a crime against the consumer to force them to keep a product they don't like.

      Prior to the internet I wasted sooooo much money on crappy movies and music albums. Now I don't need to. I only buy it if I like it. ----- And don't give me shit about reading reviews. Most of those reviews are corporate-written and can not be trusted. I only trust my own eyes and ears.

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    8. Re:The people lose again by AcidPenguin9873 · · Score: 1

      That's true, but for virtual goods, there is a non-zero (and sometimes significant) creation cost to create the first copy, and creators try to use repeated sales of the good to cover that creation cost.

    9. Re:The people lose again by Lunix+Nutcase · · Score: 4, Insightful

      It's a crime against the consumer to force them to keep a product they don't like.

      How is it a "crime"? Were you forced into buying the product? Was the product defective? Was the product exactly as it was advertised when sold? I'm sorry, but I see nothing criminal in the fact that a store isn't obligated to accept returns on things that are neither faulty nor were sold under fraudulent terms (and no, the fact that you didn't like it doesn't make the sale fraudulent).

    10. Re:The people lose again by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, because as we all know it costs just as much to record a CD as what you pay for it in the store just like those other products you buy...

      Oh, wait!

    11. Re:The people lose again by MobileTatsu-NJG · · Score: 1

      Was the product defective? Was the product exactly as it was advertised when sold? I'm sorry, but I see nothing criminal in the fact that a store isn't obligated to accept returns on things that are neither faulty nor were sold under fraudulent terms (and no, the fact that you didn't like it doesn't make the sale fraudulent).

      Go buy 'White Noise' on DVD, watch it, then tell us how much you support the no-returns policy.

      --

      "I like to lick butts!" by MobileTatsu-NJG (#32700246) (Score:5, Informative)

    12. Re:The people lose again by commodore64_love · · Score: 2, Insightful

      >>>the same corporations that are waging a campaign to bankrupt college students, instead of working to making college education more affordable.

      College already is damn cheap. At state schools about half the tuition is covered by taxpayers. Plus your professors earn very little salary and would actually be better-off quitting & going to work in industry (about $30,000 per year more). And the room rental works out to just $11-12 per night.

      I think college is actually quite cheap, and I wish we could have a similar privatized model at the K-12 level. (Gov't schools cost ~$10,000 each year - private is only $3500.)

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    13. Re:The people lose again by betterunixthanunix · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Well, consider this: the consumer may just be curious about the music. On the one hand, they can download it, and not have to worry about not liking it -- but that is illegal, and should the corporation that produced the music wish to, they can bring the consumer to court with the blessing of the executive branch. On the other hand, they can purchase it, but if they don't like it they have no guaranteed recourse.

      That sure sounds like a system that is designed to favor the rich and powerful corporations, rather than the consumers.

      --
      Palm trees and 8
    14. Re:The people lose again by Delarth799 · · Score: 1

      And ever since this became fantasy land, downloading became the same as stealing!

    15. Re:The people lose again by spazdor · · Score: 3, Insightful

      try

      Exactly.

      --
      DRM: Terminator crops for your mind!
    16. Re:The people lose again by Darkness404 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Because there is no way to try before you buy legally. With a book its close to a non-issue, Barnes and Noble won't kick me out for reading a full book while in their store, why is it so different with music/DVDs? Unless I can listen to the entire album in-store, I don't know what I'm buying. Lets say I buy a physical good, a clock radio for example. However, I don't like the alarm sound of it because I don't think it will get me up, I repackage the product and return it no questions asked mostly.

      If Wal-Mart let me listen to the full album before I bought it, it wouldn't be an issue. If it was legal to listen to the album by downloading it at home before I bought it it would be a non-issue. But if I don't know what I'm getting, and I can't return it, it isn't a product, its a gamble.

      --
      Taxation is legalized theft, no more, no less.
    17. Re:The people lose again by commodore64_love · · Score: 2, Insightful

      There's a radio host named Alex Jones who gives his stuff away for free (via internet) or for purchase (physical copy), but he doesn't seem to be going bankrupt. He still rakes-in plenty of cash. There are probably other examples, but Jones is the first one that popped into my head.

      POINT: Just because the net exists doesn't mean the company will disappear. There are enough people who prefer physical product (like me) that they will continue raking-in millions each year. For them to claim they "lose" is ridiculous. There was no cost to them when I downloaded that Britney song, and even if the net didn't exist, I wouldn't buy her crap anyway.

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    18. Re:The people lose again by santiagodraco · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Of course the fact that every movie avail on DVD has been out in the theaters already, and reviewed.... and music albums are played on radio stations regularly, and streamed...

      Yeah you are right. Walmart is the problem you buy crappy DVD's and music, not you. They absolutely should take back that opened container that you absolutely did not RIP to your media server at home...

      Please...

    19. Re:The people lose again by Darkness404 · · Score: 1

      it might be an issue with an apathetic public

      But if the MPAA is correct, the people aren't apathetic, they are simply doing what they believe is right. The laws should conform to the people in most cases, not the other way around. If the people believe that downloading music is right, then perhaps the laws should be revised.

      --
      Taxation is legalized theft, no more, no less.
    20. Re:The people lose again by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      xkcd was the first to pop into my head

    21. Re:The people lose again by bunratty · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Downloading is not the same as stealing, but when you make a copy of a book, CD, or DVD instead of paying for it, you are denying revenue to pay for the creation and distribution of the content. If everyone did that, most wouldn't bother with creating and distributing content, because they wouldn't be able to make a living at it.

      Face it. Many Slashdotters are against copyright and patents just because they want to freeload. They don't give a thought to the consequences their actions have.

      --
      What a fool believes, he sees, no wise man has the power to reason away.
    22. Re:The people lose again by commodore64_love · · Score: 1

      >>>How is it a "crime"?

      In nearly-all jurisdictions it is a crime for a company to sell an inferior product and then refuse to refund money. Even in "as is" cases the courts have ruled that the company must refund the customer, if the company claimed the product was working but in fact did not work. The legal system is designed to protect the customer and charge companies with crimes if they don't obey these laws. (See U.S. v. Warner Records, Sony, et al. from ten years ago.)
      .

      >>>Was the product exactly as it was advertised when sold?

      No. We all know that movies/music are advertised in a manner that makes them appear better than they are. How many times I've heard people say, "The only good parts of the movie were in the ad. The rest was crap."

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    23. Re:The people lose again by interkin3tic · · Score: 1

      Sure. Find me a candidate who says that is what I'm saying.

    24. Re:The people lose again by commodore64_love · · Score: 1, Insightful

      I liked that movie. A better example might be Uwe Boll's "Alone in the Dark" or "House of the Dead". You buy this crap from Walmart. Should you be forced to keep it? No.

      I don't care if some future government law merely says Walmart has to give me store credit - it's still better than throwing-away $15 on shit. Hell even candy bar makers warranty their products ("if unsatisfied return the unused portion for a refund"). Why can't record and movie companies follow that example?

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    25. Re:The people lose again by MobileTatsu-NJG · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Why can't record and movie companies follow that example?

      They don't understand that as long as people are having fun the money will roll towards them. What kills me is 10 years ago Paramount was trying to take down screen grabs of Star Trek from fan sites.

      --

      "I like to lick butts!" by MobileTatsu-NJG (#32700246) (Score:5, Informative)

    26. Re:The people lose again by kholburn · · Score: 2, Insightful

      So if I go to my library and borrow a book for free, or a DVD or a CD I am stealing? Am I denying revenue to pay for creation and distribution of the content?

      I and most people I know have been doing this for a long time with books and guess what - there are still books being written.

    27. Re:The people lose again by Darkness404 · · Score: 1

      http://www.pirate-party.us/news.php

      But depending on the candidates, various Libertarian/Constitution party members will oppose intellectual "property" in its current form based on various extensions from the original constitution which contains much more sane terms. Of course some of them actively support it, so it just really depends on the candidate.

      --
      Taxation is legalized theft, no more, no less.
    28. Re:The people lose again by bunratty · · Score: 1

      What a stupid question! I never, ever said anything about stealing. What do you think? When you check something out of a library, are you stealing? Have Slashdotters completely lost their ability to think for themselves?

      --
      What a fool believes, he sees, no wise man has the power to reason away.
    29. Re:The people lose again by MalHavoc · · Score: 1, Insightful

      The problem here is that few people (maybe you have, and if so, awesome) actually go to a bookstore and read a *whole* book before they decide to buy it. Where do you draw the line there?

      "Wow, the butler didn't do it. That sucks. No sale."

      Most people might read the back cover, maybe the first chapter, read a few reviews online, and decide. Especially if they've read other works by that author. But the whole book?

      I'm betting that if you were able to listen to clips of every track on an album, say, 30 seconds worth, that'd be a reasonable compromise. Amazon does this now, and some brick and mortar stores let you listen to a CD before you buy it, in store. It's probaby a "safe bet", to use your gamble analogy, to assume that if 30 seconds out of every track is stuff you don't like, the other 3 or 4 minutes of each track may also not be something you'd like.

      The bigger stores might only offer some of the "top 5" albums, but there are some smaller, locally run stores near here that will let me listen to an album in the store for ten or 15 minutes and I can decide if I like it. If I don't buy it, the retailer takes a loss on that CD because he might have to knock a few bucks off if it since it is opened, but I'm pretty sure I spend enough in there to make it worth his while.

    30. Re:The people lose again by commodore64_love · · Score: 0

      So the Republicans have sold out to British Petroleum.

      And the Democrats have sold out to Microsoft, MGM, and other copyright-loving megacorps.

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    31. Re:The people lose again by DarkKnightRadick · · Score: 1

      wait, what?

      --
      "There is a way that seems right to a man, but its end is the way of death." Proverbs 16:25 (NKJV)
    32. Re:The people lose again by Bahamut_Omega · · Score: 1

      I don't think piracy is the right word in this case. All fingers point to corruption via sedition.

    33. Re:The people lose again by DarkKnightRadick · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Completely agree. But that cost is recouped many times over, if the product is any good, within the first 5 years or so. Yet, for goods that can be reproduced digitally the cost never goes down after the cost is recouped.

      The RIAA and MPAA are losing business because of their own retarded business practices and refusal to fully embrace the Net as a means of low-cost distribution.

      --
      "There is a way that seems right to a man, but its end is the way of death." Proverbs 16:25 (NKJV)
    34. Re:The people lose again by betterunixthanunix · · Score: 1

      Except that music is a lot different from books. People listen to a CD they like more than once -- it is not like a novel, which is not very interesting the second time around. In fact, I would say it is a sign that the CD is not particularly well liked if someone only listens to it once, and then never again.

      --
      Palm trees and 8
    35. Re:The people lose again by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I buy some stuff on Amazon. They let you play samples of songs before you buy.

    36. Re:The people lose again by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In software--often times, YES!

      Were you forced into buying windows? Most people were by market conditions.

      Was it defective: By most reasonable definitions.

      Was the CD I bought last week defective: Yes. It wouldn't play on my computer. By the legal definition of a CD, partially owned by Sony, it was not a CD and was a misappropriation of their trademark. Of course, they won't enforce it since somebody probably paid license fees.

      Was it exactly as advertised when sold: No--it may contain DRM, software that contacts home, software that interferes with other software, a web browser, a media player, a list of trusted certificate authorities, an internet messenger, text editor, and who knows what else... It is in short, impossible for them to have made it exactly as advertised.

      It may in fact contain a license that says "click cancel if you do not agree and return the software to the store"--when the store has a policy of no returns.

      So yes--in point of fact, the term of sale was fraudulent. It violated the doctrine of first sale, and many times does not permit me to utilize the product as advertised on the box, in commercials, or as marketed in magazines and trade shows. Or should I just assume that any time I eat at a restaurant the menu will come with terms of use that I agree to indemnify the company in any lawsuit ever for any reason? Suck me lawfag.

      I buy a $500 piece of software off the shelf, I expect a word processor--NOT a god damned license in which I give up most of my rights for permission to install it without committing a copyright violation based on a horrible legal decision 25 years ago.

      Just because most educated people commit fraud on a daily basis does not make it legal or right. When's the last time you bought a new computer and read the license you agreed to? Nobody does.

    37. Re:The people lose again by Darkness404 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Most people might read the back cover, maybe the first chapter, read a few reviews online, and decide. Especially if they've read other works by that author. But the whole book?

      Yes, most people. See, that is the key. Most people don't have enough free time to sit down and read an entire book. But the thing is, they don't stop you if you read the entire book. Same thing with an album or DVD, few people are going to sit down and watch/listen to the entire thing, or same thing with games, but why stop them? Our entire economy is based on convenience, I have broadband because its more convenient than dial-up, I've got a car because its a whole lot easier to drive 15 miles to work everyday rather than walk those 15 miles, I've got a refrigerator rather than buying food everyday because its easier, etc. I could probably save money if I bought a modem for my laptop and subscribed to a dirt-cheap dial-up service, but it would be a lot less convenient.

      You would gain more sales than "losses" according to the *AA if you could watch an entire movie or listen to an entire album before you purchased it. The problem with 30 second samples is that it doesn't reflect the entire song. The -vast- majority of my iTunes purchases are songs that I've been listening to for a while on YouTube, I don't go out and buy obscure albums without knowing what the songs are. And unless the album is at a steep discount when compared to the songs I like individually, I won't buy an entire album.

      I like certainty in my purchases. Why should I spend the price for a decent meal on an album unless I know for sure I will like it? Does this strategy mean I buy less music? Yes. Does this strategy mean that I spend more on my music? Yes. Using YouTube and other sites with music on it I will generally end up finding more artists that I really like, that I will buy their albums and go to see concerts, buy merchandise, etc.

      I'm going to end up spending less money if I buy a few sub-par albums I don't really like when compared to one album that I really love so I go to the concerts.

      --
      Taxation is legalized theft, no more, no less.
    38. Re:The people lose again by EdIII · · Score: 4, Insightful

      No. They are not virtual goods either. Your close, but missing something. Both terms imply that theft, at some level, in some context can occur. Theft of intellectual property is in impossibility, by the very definitions of the words involved. The cost, or effort, of copying is also irrelevant.

      When you give your money for the shiny piece of plastic, you are also granted license rights, that we The Peeps (aka Government), granted copyright holders to bestow upon others.

      Only one thing happens when you "pirate" or receive a digital copy of a copyrighted work without compensating the copyright holder: Infringement . The definition, "A violation, as of a law, regulation, or agreement; a breach." does not, and never has, implied Theft which has the definition, "(Law) Criminal law the dishonest taking of property belonging to another person with the intention of depriving the owner permanently of its possession".

      Now a copyright can be viewed as physical property, but that is the copyright itself. To permanently deprive somebody of their copyright means I somehow transferred those legal entitlements to myself and started receiving money and granting others license to use that work, per my newly and illicitly acquired intellectual property rights.

      All of the analogies to physically stealing anything are complete and utter tripe based on fallacious logic, and deliberate misinterpretation of law. Content companies (derogatorily referred to as Big Media) would love to have the act of Infringement conflated with Theft. It serves their purpose to have the public incorrectly associate the two to accomplish fear mongering.

      Of course the fact, that no college student or citizen has ever been convicted of theft of an MP3 seems to make no difference. Defendants are always sued for damages as it relates to the acts of infringement in a civil court and not a criminal court. No district attorney has ever prosecuted criminal charges against an ordinary citizen for what we consider to be piracy because it is pointless. It does not meet the definition of criminal levels of infringement which traditionally require intent to profit financially or large scale distribution. Those have been amended in recent times, but nonetheless, nobody has ever been prosecuted criminally for it, despite the fact that torrents and file sharing have involved distribution at what some consider to be large scale.

      It makes very little sense, and I don't support piracy. However, I don't support the type of ignorance you were replying to either and it always motivates me to put out yet another post hoping to educate people on what a copyright really is.

    39. Re:The people lose again by jedidiah · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The federal government doesn't meddle in shoplifting either.

      In truth, no cop wants to bother with this stuff. This is why Hollywood had to buy this sort of law. Cops would rather chase drug kingpins or bank robbers.

      There's simply no glory in shutting down Canal Street.

      --
      A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
    40. Re:The people lose again by jedidiah · · Score: 1

      > How is it a "crime"? ...how quickly the corporate toadies forget about the rule of law when it suits their agenda.

      There is actually a set of standardized state laws that govern this very thing.

      It's called the Uniform Commercial Code. This is what normally makes a company like Walmart liable for selling you junk.

      The only reason that Walmart and BestBuy won't accept DVD returns is the fact that this anti-piracy hysteria predates the Internet and Big Content has always had clout.

      --
      A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
    41. Re:The people lose again by Strudelkugel · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Student loans provided by the Federal Gov. have the same effect as mortgage loans provided by Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae- they raise the price of the underlying product. Just like cheap credit inflated the cost of housing, gov. provided loans are inflating the cost of education. In addition, educational institutions like to tempt students with the promise of high paying jobs (just like that house will be worth more in the future!), leading many students into oppressive debt burdens. Unlike many home loans, however, default on a student loan is a lot more problematic.

      If education had less government subsidy, it would probably be cheaper or at least more cost effective. Everything the government subsidizes to "help the people" distorts markets by raising the price or over production. It can also encourage other risky behaviors. This is not to be confused with long lead time gov. led efforts, such as basic research, environmental studies and the like, in which a "market" either would not exist or would be dysfunctional due to lack or participants. Government clearly has important roles. Providing student loans is not one of them.

      --
      Imagine how much harder physics would be if electrons had feelings! -Feynman, maybe
    42. Re:The people lose again by Andorin · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Face it. Many Slashdotters are against copyright and patents just because they want to freeload.

      Looks like it's categorically impossible to have a rational debate with you about copyright, because anyone who disagrees with you is automatically a pirate.

      --
      That Anonymous Coward guy is pretty annoying. Can we have the government censor him or something?
    43. Re:The people lose again by The+Spoonman · · Score: 1

      Was the product defective?

      I believe he mentioned that when he said "If I was able to buy stuff, discover it is shit".

      Was the product exactly as it was advertised when sold?

      More often than not, when discussing the kinds of intellectual property these organizations are trying to protect, the answer is no. Every movie is advertised as if it's the greatest story that's ever been told in a way that will make your grandchildren cry and all of these reviewers said things like "brilliant", "best movie ever" and "you should buy this movie if you're not a retarded moron who doesn't like great movies". When discussing music, that new song you heard on the radio today WAS great...but when you bought the CD you found that the other 12 were complete shit. Sorry, I'm not spending $20 for one good song. If all of the media being pumped out these days was half as good as the packaging and advertising says it is, this discussion wouldn't be happening. People would be happy to buy it because a) there would be a lot less of it. It takes time to put out good work and b) it would be worth it. As it stands now, most of their crap isn't a good value at free.

      And, no, I don't buy many movies on DVD or music on CD. I have Netflix and the radio.

      the fact that you didn't like it doesn't make the sale fraudulent

      No, the sale was not. But, not honoring a warranty of merchantability is. If I purchase food at the store, consume some, and find I don't like it I can return it. If I purchase some new shoes (after trying them on in the store), but find after a couple of days of wearing them that I just don't like how they feel, I can return them. Hell, most auto dealers are now offering 3-day return policies even. That would be after I read all of the reviews and did a test drive, etc, etc. But, not so in the media industry. You bought it, you don't like it, you suck it. That's why I don't buy it, and why many people aren't buying it.

      They're not losing a penny's revenue due to piracy, they're losing it all due to teh suck.

      --
      Which is more painful? Going to work or gouging your eye out with a spoon? Find out!
      http://www.workorspoon.com
    44. Re:The people lose again by X0563511 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Please tell me where I can listen to Juno Reactor's Labyrinth on the radio.

      Or, right. Only popular swill gets played (over and over and over and over) on the radio.

      --
      For large sets, this will be our guide even unto death, for the LORD will work for each type of data it is applied to...
    45. Re:The people lose again by abigor · · Score: 1

      Any proper music shop will let you listen to the music before you buy it, as will any online shop. Or you can just go to the artist's web page/Myspace page/etc. So your entire argument is ridiculous, which isn't a surprise considering you apparently shop at Wal-Mart.

    46. Re:The people lose again by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Except that you are taking the same as self-replicating machines, leaving the original at the store, and copying the copies. How is that the same as shoplifting? Explain.

    47. Re:The people lose again by dmbasso · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Face it. Many Slashdotters are against copyright and patents just because they want to freeload. They don't give a thought to the consequences their actions have.

      Probably true. But that doesn't change the fact that the business model used by those interested in stricter rules for copyright and patents is undeniably wrong.

      --
      `echo $[0x853204FA81]|tr 0-9 ionbsdeaml`@gmail.com
    48. Re:The people lose again by schon · · Score: 1

      There is a difference between a physical good and a virtual good. Virtual goods (such as digital music, software, music, etc.) can (and are) copied endlessly with little to no cost. The same cannot be said of food and other physical goods.

      That's true, but for virtual goods, there is a non-zero (and sometimes significant) creation cost to create the first copy

      And that's not true for real-world goods? So the prototype for the computer you're using right now just created itself out of thin air?

      DarkKnightRadick is correct - the difference between virtual and non-virtual goods is that virtual goods have a zero or near-zero marginal cost.

    49. Re:The people lose again by hedwards · · Score: 1

      Citation required for that assertion. That might be what they charge for tuition, but it's almost certainly not the full amount that it costs to run. There's money from trust funds as well as government money. Yes, at least around here, there's tax payer dollars funding it.

    50. Re:The people lose again by Bill+Dog · · Score: 2, Funny

      Hell even candy bar makers warranty their products ("if unsatisfied return the unused portion for a refund"). Why can't record and movie companies follow that example?

      Simple: One makes a Baby Ruth and puts it in a plastic wrapper, and the other makes a turd and puts it in a plastic wrapper. Both are bad for you, but that's where the similarity ends.

      --
      Attention zealots and haters: 00100 00100
    51. Re:The people lose again by Shakrai · · Score: 1

      Hell even candy bar makers warranty their products ("if unsatisfied return the unused portion for a refund"). Why can't record and movie companies follow that example?

      Probably because you can't copy the candy bar and produce as many copies of it as you want for free after purchasing it?

      I have to say that I agree with this guy. You don't have a Constitutional or Natural Law right to a fair returns policy at Wally World. If you don't like the return policy then don't buy the product. Newegg has a dead pixel policy and refuses to accept most returns over the issue. Should I buy a monitor from them anyway and bitch about my "rights" when they refuse to accept the return or just take my money elsewhere?

      --
      I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
      We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
    52. Re:The people lose again by Zancarius · · Score: 1

      No. We all know that movies/music are advertised in a manner that makes them appear better than they are. How many times I've heard people say, "The only good parts of the movie were in the ad. The rest was crap."

      As in your previous example, it sort of makes me wonder how Uwe Boll manages to rake in any audiences. Is it possible people pay to see his movies simply because they felt pity upon him and wanted to throw him a bone?

      I know of a few reviewers who would probably pay him to stop making movies.

      --
      He who has no .plan has small finger. ~ Confucius on UNIX
    53. Re:The people lose again by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Then you would have no problem with people stealing music CDs in stores and leaving $0.10 at the counter, correct? After all, that's all it costs to produce, am I right? Consumers get to decide the cost for all products, yes?

    54. Re:The people lose again by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How was this voted troll? It is a perfectly valid point. Stealing is stealing no matter the medium. I can't wait until one of you morons creates and application with the shocking intent of making a profit for your hard work to see it stolen. We will see if your POV changes then.

    55. Re:The people lose again by Score+Whore · · Score: 1, Insightful

      You know the problem with hiring an employee is that you can't get them to work their entire career at your company before you pay them.

      Did you sue your parents for bringing you into the world without giving you a complete moment by moment view of your life from birth to death? The funny thing about life in general is that you don't get to try it before you commit to it.

      Stop making excuses for taking other people's work without paying.

      Finally, no our economy isn't based on convenience. Based on your post in general, I'm guessing that it's probably too much to hope that you'll actually try to be educated before spouting off.

    56. Re:The people lose again by iamwahoo2 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      What you suggest may have been true 20 years ago. Today, public funds pays for approximately 20%. Profs may be able to make more in the private sector but they would probably be expected to actually show up and work and sometimes work on things that they do not like. There's a reason so many highly qualified people want to become university faculty instead of working in the private sector, it's not such a bad gig.

    57. Re:The people lose again by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      it is not like a novel, which is not very interesting the second time around.

      Spoken like someone who does not enjoy reading at all.

      In fact, I would say it is a sign that the CD is not particularly well liked if someone only listens to it once, and then never again.

      You know, some people don't actually like music. That others, even if they do like some genres, simply don't have interest in taking the time to listen. That more people, even after listening to an album they considered riveting and awesome, never desire to listen to it again. Music plays a very minor role in many peoples lives -- even, perhaps, for the majority.

    58. Re:The people lose again by pandaman9000 · · Score: 1

      Your numbers do not reflect university costs near me. University of Louisville, U of K, IU, all of them are more than $15K per year for just tuition. Unless you are "Obama" middle class (upper limit of 250K per yr), you are not paying your own way through college as an average white male working fast food/warehouse work.

      College is cheap if YOU are getting subsidized. My 1st yr English teacher (a 1st year part time professor and grad student), made about 35K with tuition, housing, etc benefits. Teachers get a lot of time off work, to boot.

    59. Re:The people lose again by gumbi+west · · Score: 1

      But there are other goods like this: transportation once the vehicle is going to make the trip is near zero marginal cost, internet connections once you have the line/base station, text messages.

      Plus, who cares what the marginal cost is?

      Plus, I think you suspect it is lower than it is. For big music, there is promotion costs that are marginal.

    60. Re:The people lose again by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Except, libraries don't copy material. It's shared. A distributed digital file has one originating source. A library must purchase multiple copies -- sometimes dozens -- of the work to keep up with local demand. When you multiply this state-wide, even obscure titles will have been purchased thousands of times by libraries. A single digital copy, meanwhile, serves millions of people -- a physical impossibility for library-owned titles. A book loaned out by a library every week for 30 years will still only be read by 1,565 people.

    61. Re:The people lose again by gumbi+west · · Score: 0, Troll

      The more I see stuff like this moded insightful, the more I think I need to find a new website. As someone who pays for all his content, this is absolutely helpful to me--it means more content can be produced. It's also helpful for the large number of people who work for those large firms--they wouldn't be large firms if they didn't have lots of employees.

      I think there ought to be a mod "+1 ditto".

    62. Re:The people lose again by SolusSD · · Score: 1

      Blanket statements like that just expose your complete ignorance of IP law and the roles of various players in it from consumers and IP holders to law enforcement. Oh .. this is slashdot- carry on.

    63. Re:The people lose again by kalel666 · · Score: 1
      --
      I HAVE CUBIC WISDOM THAT TRANSCENDS AND CONTRADICTS ONE DAY GODS
    64. Re:The people lose again by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Good thing he said many, and not all, right? Fact is, 99% of people don't take principled stands for anything, and Slashdot is no exception to that rule. What, you thought Slashdot readers are more virtuous than others?

    65. Re:The people lose again by icebraining · · Score: 1

      No, because the store has bought the CD at a much larger price from the publisher (around 90% of the final price, or so I've read), so the shop would effectively be losing money.

    66. Re:The people lose again by TubeSteak · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Everything the government subsidizes to "help the people" distorts markets by raising the price or over production.

      Anytime someone says "Everything the government [does is bad]" you know they're whargarbling ideology and are not dealing with reality.

      That aside, most markets are already distorted for a variety of governmental and non-govermental reasons, long before government subsidies get involved.

      --
      [Fuck Beta]
      o0t!
    67. Re:The people lose again by shentino · · Score: 1

      It's called an increase in demand.

      With more people getting subsidies and being ABLE to go to college, there is more demand for the resource of education, which pushes prices up.

    68. Re:The people lose again by Jedi+Alec · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Was there a 3rd party candidate for presidency who was running on a platform which included "Don't do anything to enforce intellectual property rights?" And if so, is the reason they didn't get elected -really- because they weren't with one of the two parties?

      Is it even possible for a candidate, any candidate, to run without a budget of at least a couple hundred million? And if not, is it any surprise that the choices you get can be quickly summarized as corporate whores A through D?

      --

      People replying to my sig annoy me. That's why I change it all the time.
    69. Re:The people lose again by shentino · · Score: 1

      The very fact that the company claimed it would work is an express warranty, and it ceases to be an "as is" sale.

    70. Re:The people lose again by Kalriath · · Score: 1

      You're not stealing, no. But libraries have the convenience tradeoff - you can't re-read the book over and over again without going to the library and getting it out again. If you really intend to re-read the book (and don't get me wrong, I realise quite often people don't) then there's good odds you'll still buy it.

      --
      For a site about things like basic rights, Slashdot users sure do like to censor "dissent".
    71. Re:The people lose again by Thing+1 · · Score: 1

      Newegg has a dead pixel policy and refuses to accept most returns over the issue. Should I buy a monitor from them anyway and bitch about my "rights" when they refuse to accept the return or just take my money elsewhere?

      No. Buy from TigerDirect, which has comparable prices and a ZERO dead pixel policy (or at least, did the last time I bought a monitor from them, about a year ago). Tiger is gr-r-r-r-reat!

      --
      I feel fantastic, and I'm still alive.
    72. Re:The people lose again by ScrewMaster · · Score: 3

      Then you would have no problem with people stealing music CDs in stores and leaving $0.10 at the counter, correct? After all, that's all it costs to produce, am I right? Consumers get to decide the cost for all products, yes?

      The adults are trying to have a rational discussion here. RIAA shills and/or stupid people are simply not invited.

      --
      The higher the technology, the sharper that two-edged sword.
    73. Re:The people lose again by Phoobarnvaz · · Score: 1

      educational institutions like to tempt students with the promise of high paying jobs

      As one who did the whole college route about 30 years ago...it's not the government subsidies which lead to this lie from hell. It's the educational establishment which needs to keep worthless employees employed which lead to college being out of the reach of many people. For instance...look at the salary of university/college presidents & administrators. You want something which will blow your mind...look at the salary of any university/college sports coach whose team appears on TV. Any of these are multi-millionaires who actually don't do much of anything other than look good & raise as much money as the alumni can throw at the college. You want to bring the price of a college education down to earth...tell all of these overpriced idiots they'll actually make the same salary as some of the poorest students parents attending their institution.

      College was fun...but looking back on it now...I would have much better been served by fixing cars...air conditioners or becoming a plumber. It's like the old saying..."those who can't...teach & get paid MUCH more than they're worth".

      --
      Don't worry about the world coming to an end today. It's already tomorrow in Australia. - Charles M. Schulz
    74. Re:The people lose again by Thing+1 · · Score: 1

      Jonathan Coulton is a successful Creative Commons artist. Think "Code Monkey", he also did the song at the end of "Portal" (the game), and had (has?) a gig as musician for a science magazine (Discover, I think?). He used to be a geek like us, so his music particularly speaks to me.

      I also very much enjoy Cory Doctorow's writing; he also releases to Creative Commons. Haven't gone back to the well since ... I think "Someone Comes to Town", which was a little weird (dad was a mountain, mom was a washing machine IIRC, and the names were alphabetical), perhaps that's the reason I haven't gone back. But I know he's released a few more works, I read about a new one here a week or two ago.

      --
      I feel fantastic, and I'm still alive.
    75. Re:The people lose again by Darkness404 · · Score: 1
      No, but I can get a pretty good idea of hiring an employee by knowing past career history and try to make an educated guess. That very risk is why most companies hesitate to hire people unless they have great work experience.

      Finally, no our economy isn't based on convenience

      Then what is it based on? Every development in the last 50 years has been centered upon convenience. The car, the internet, computers, automation, robotics, music, TV, radio, tapes, DVDs, Blu-Ray, NetFlix, Roomba, iPhone, etc. every major part of our economy is driven by the need for convenience.

      --
      Taxation is legalized theft, no more, no less.
    76. Re:The people lose again by Rich0 · · Score: 1

      Sure, but the solution isn't to just keep providing more money. That's just a positive feedback loop, and the results are predictable.

      If the federal government wants to provide tons of money for education, then they should get in and get their hands dirty, and start regulating it. If you want federal aid, then you accept federal price controls, or you compete with free public colleges, or whatever.

      Frankly I'd prefer that more industries beg the government NOT to step in. Sure, sometimes the government needs to step in, but it shouldn't be to line corporate pockets...

    77. Re:The people lose again by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why don't you put your money where your mouth is? Seriously. Since you're so keen on abolishing copyright, why don't you list the otherwise-valuable products/services you have provided to the public, free of charge? After all, it's not all about you, or is it?

    78. Re:The people lose again by avalys · · Score: 1

      So, don't buy music if you don't like the terms under which it is sold. It's their product, and if they want to sell it under onerous conditions and make their customers "gamble", that's their right. If you don't like it, don't buy their music.

      Not liking the terms under which a product is sold does not entitle you to pirate it. A return policy is not a civil right.

      --
      This space intentionally left blank.
    79. Re:The people lose again by Shakrai · · Score: 1

      I don't buy anything from Newegg, specifically because of their return policy. If you are lucky enough for them to accept a return they will still try and hit you with a restocking fee.

      I had to argue this with them once upon a time when I bought a motherboard/ram/cpu combo. They sent ram that was known to be incompatible with the bundled motherboard. I wanted to return the RAM and keep the other two items and they said they'd hit me with the 15% restocking fee for the RAM. I told them this was bullshit and that they were the ones who had bundled it -- they said it was my responsibility to verify that it was compatible. I said that might be true if I bought it separately but it was reasonable to assume it would work when sold as a bundle. We went back and forth on this point until I threatened to involve my credit card company, at which point they caved. Guess they figured that eating the 15% was cheaper than eating the charge back.

      I haven't done business with them since then.

      --
      I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
      We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
    80. Re:The people lose again by coalrestall · · Score: 1

      > If you don't like the return policy then don't buy the product. That's exactly what people are currently doing, hence declining sales and an influx of downloads. The suggestion that content should have a returns policy is precisely to counter this; to bring a better balance to the scenario, potentially increase sales, and allow consumers voting with their wallets to be heard.

    81. Re:The people lose again by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I don't see too many private companies clamoring for history and philosophy professors. Hell, even physics professors struggle for work.

      If you think college is cheap you obviously don't look at prices at places like Boston University or even some of the small liberal arts schools (e.g. Amherst).

    82. Re:The people lose again by jackspenn · · Score: 1

      As someone who pays for all his content ...

      I haven't seen you cutting any checks to the /.ers posting on this thread. Oh, good like with that new website, let me know how it works out.

      --
      Respect the Constitution
    83. Re:The people lose again by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      From the looks of your post you might have eduction in macroeconomics, in which case you can explain why it is valid to include in the same economic assessmnet, the effects of supplying mortgages for the purchase of a large fixed asset and the effects of supplying unsecured funding for consumption of a service. If not then simply regard the post as a rhetorical rebuttal.

    84. Re:The people lose again by Score+Whore · · Score: 1

      No, but I can get a pretty good idea of hiring an employee by knowing past career history and try to make an educated guess. That very risk is why most companies hesitate to hire people unless they have great work experience.

      So consider this paragraph the answer to your previous post.

    85. Re:The people lose again by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      As much as I hate that college sports draws attention away from more important things, the argument against coach salaries is a bit weak. They rake in far more money for the school than they will ever cost.

    86. Re:The people lose again by Maxo-Texas · · Score: 2, Informative

      Son,

      When I went to college, rates had gone up and it cost me $1500 a semester for a full load. This was about 20 years ago.
      College rates have gone up insanely fast compared to everything else except medical care.

      I graduated college debt free. without student loans. I didn't have to do any of that crap because college used to be affordable.
      It's not any more.

      I read about students graduating with $50k, $100k, and even $550k in debt and it makes me really sad for the kids today.

      Open your eyes, they are taking you for a ride.

      --
      She was like chocolate when she drank... semi-sweet at first and then increasingly bitter.
    87. Re:The people lose again by Lewis+Daggart · · Score: 1

      Everything the government subsidizes to "help the people" distorts markets by raising the price or over production.

      Anytime someone says "Everything the government [does is bad]" you know they're whargarbling ideology and are not dealing with reality.

      That aside, most markets are already distorted for a variety of governmental and non-govermental reasons, long before government subsidies get involved.

      TLDR much? "This is not to be confused with long lead time gov. led efforts, such as basic research, environmental studies and the like, in which a "market" either would not exist or would be dysfunctional due to lack or participants. Government clearly has important roles. Providing student loans is not one of them."

    88. Re:The people lose again by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Uhh, no, the QUALITY of a College education has gotten cheap, as in damn near worthless (try getting even a mediocre job sans degree these days).

      The COST of a College education, to the individual, to society at large (those government grants don't underwrite themselves, you know) on the other hand, has become very nearly extortionate to those who actually need the education to better themselves, and society in general.

      PARTICULARLY when you start tallying up the associated finance charges, book fees, lab costs, parking fees, property taxes, et al.

      The taxpayer eats alot of the cost, but only because the cost is so damned high already that the students have NO realistic expectations of EVER being able to afford it otherwise.

      Unless you're rich.

      Or well connected.

      Or just damned lucky enough to win the lottery of life in some way.

      Pretty much puts the majority of our nation at a major disadvantage, doesn't it? Ahh, but you really wouldn't know of that, would you?

      Try walking a mile or two on the dirt with the rest of us, you might benefit from the experience, and actually LEARN something of yourself in the exchange.

    89. Re:The people lose again by oblivionboy · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Wow. You must be insanely naive. Every PhD level candidate (successful or not) has more or less the same story these days -- they work far harder than their counterparts in "private sector". The main reason is competition and the pressure to publish and teach. Its not easy getting your PhD, and its even harder to get tenure and be successful. If anything most of these qualified people are quitting early at the Masters level to find jobs, or after being a PhD level prof for a while, leaving universities to get things that are more lucrative. Science in particular is a great road to poverty when it comes to university research....

    90. Re:The people lose again by Jane+Q.+Public · · Score: 3, Insightful

      What if "the people" do NOT believe that downloading music is "right"... but believe that it's nevertheless a better alternative than what MPAA members are offering them commercially?

    91. Re:The people lose again by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > ... copyright and patents (emphasis added) ...

      Your conflation of copyright with patents reveals your true colors as a zealot, rather than someone reasonable.

      We all know that the vast majority of Slashdotters are just drooling over being able to found a new startup company to rip off the latest patented technology in their products. Yeah, sure. None of us hate patents because a whole shitload of them are just a rip-off of society (a la Amazon one-click).

      Maybe we just hate copyright and patents, well, because they function badly, and geeks hate broken code?

      Your own post underlines this. We will soon be living in a world where, yes, many people will freeload on IP, because they can and there is nothing which can be done about it on a practical scale, which is compatible with a free society. Laws, which cannot be enforced, are broken (in both senses).

    92. Re:The people lose again by infidel13 · · Score: 1

      My room rental is almost a thousand dollars a month.

      --
      quia potentia mens mentis
    93. Re:The people lose again by mpe · · Score: 2, Informative

      But if the MPAA is correct, the people aren't apathetic, they are simply doing what they believe is right.

      Consider also that the MPAA has been caught "pirating" both movies and software. There are only interested in protecting their "intellectual property". Quite possibly some of what they claim as "theirs" actually isn't...

    94. Re:The people lose again by im_thatoneguy · · Score: 1

      Here is my story:

      I took out a bunch of loans. Many of them from the government most from private businesses.

      I graduated. I started working a month later full time and within 6 months payed off all of my loans before they started accruing interest.

      Without the loans I couldn't have afforded College. Even with my tuition rates my school ultimately went bankrupt so I'm not sure how they could have cut costs too much more.

    95. Re:The people lose again by paganizer · · Score: 3, Insightful

      You've obviously been here for a while, and seen this before, but I'll post anyway.

      I don't disagree with you; I don't agree with you either. I'm a quasi-artist. my father is a musician (he helped invent rock-a-billy, sorry), and has recently had a company in Sweden republishing some of his old records without his permission. My daughter is a artist & photographer.

      All of us agree that there needs to be a way to keep others from profiting from our work; the website that hosts something my family did, and didn't ask for permission to use it, should be subject to a civil penalty for doing so that should be tied to the amount of profit they made from it, with a cash penalty for the original unauthorized use, POSSIBLY based on the value of the art, where possible. But it's not criminal, no one was harmed except in their wallet.

      We are vehemently against the criminalization that the government is starting; one of the things we've started doing is offering unlimited use licenses to any family stuff for anyone that is being targeted by a criminal trial, free of charge (it's not happened, and probably never will, but I still think it's a good idea).

      The main issue, however, is fair use. Any copyrighted work should be free to use for commentary, criticism, news reporting, research, teaching, scholarship, derivative works, or parody. it's long standing U.S. Law, and the current initiative, while they are presenting it as a means of dealing with counterfeit products and sites selling copies of copyrighted works, will have a strong chilling effect on fair use; law enforcement and purported copyright holders WILL attempt to use this to shut down sites hosting blogs, parodies, derivative works, etc.

      In direct answer to your statement, this could mean more of the same content will be produced.. but it's going to have a stifling effect on new artists and those who create new types of art, and have a negative impact on media reviewers, fan sites & parody, to name a few targets.

      --
      Why, yes, I AM a Pagan Libertarian.
    96. Re:The people lose again by OeLeWaPpErKe · · Score: 1

      So the "hope and change" plan involves enforcing copyrights, with the purpose of increased drug use by college students ?

      No wonder we voted for him.

    97. Re:The people lose again by Bert64 · · Score: 1

      For any good there is an up front creation cost...
      In order to grow food you need to buy land, cultivate it, buy farming tools etc... Then there are lower (but still significant) ongoing costs to continue growing more food.

      When you have a product whereby repeated sales don't incur any additional costs, it's not to cover the initial costs, the whole intention is to make extortionate profit margins - its a legal form of printing money, only better because money is actually more expensive to produce.

      --
      http://spamdecoy.net - free throwaway anonymous email - avoid spam!
    98. Re:The people lose again by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not to mention how real criminals get less attention...

    99. Re:The people lose again by L4t3r4lu5 · · Score: 1

      Plus, considering the pay the public sector is getting now, I'm willing to bet half of the force will be putting "thank you!" laxatives in his coffee for the next year.

      --
      Finally had enough. Come see us over at https://soylentnews.org/
    100. Re:The people lose again by dave420 · · Score: 1

      Depriving someone of physical property is nothing like copyright infringement. Even lawyers know that. Or are you more stupid than a lawyer?

    101. Re:The people lose again by dave420 · · Score: 1

      It's not cheap when compared to some parts of the world! There, it is free, which is infinitely cheaper than any price.

    102. Re:The people lose again by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I guess that's why governments in several countries are able to provide free university education and health care to their citizens; because if they provided loans, the cost of those goods would raise.

      So, the obvious thing to do would be to make all public universities in the U.S. free.

      Wait, don't they do this in California?

    103. Re:The people lose again by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      When you see an individual struggling to keep up and wanting a college education to both help the people of the world (inspiration, dream, not necessarily helping in the big picture) and another individual who is "struggling to keep up" and "wants to help the people of the world" who walks in in gold chains and such, and the individual with the excessive gold wear gets a scholarship, no questions asked, and the person who really needs it does NOT get it and cannot afford college, something is wrong.

      When you cannot afford college, something is definitely wrong.

      When it can break you when you make a decent amount, something is wrong with that. (paying off said loans that you required)

      Banks have been bailed out, now excessive credit card users are being helped a bit as a result and those people with excessive mortgages, when does the college help come??

    104. Re:The people lose again by ultranova · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Not liking the terms under which a product is sold does not entitle you to pirate it.

      You don't need entitlement to download a song any more than you need entitlement to listen to it on the radio. Sending and receiving information is a fundamental right. It's you who needs entitlement to curtail this right in any way, and strong entitlement at that.

      --

      Forget magic. Any technology distinguishable from divine power is insufficiently advanced.

    105. Re:The people lose again by DarkKnightRadick · · Score: 1

      I said virtual goods, you moron. A CD is a physical copy of something (though in reality, the content of the CD is digital and easily reproducible at little to no cost).

      --
      "There is a way that seems right to a man, but its end is the way of death." Proverbs 16:25 (NKJV)
    106. Re:The people lose again by Anzya · · Score: 3, Informative

      In Sweden schooling is not only free but you also get around $800 each month while you study. Some of it is a special kind of loan but a smaller part you don't need to pay back.
      This is enough that most students don't need to take an extra job on the side.

      USA might be the "land of opportunity" but in Sweden we believe that one of the best ways to give everyone a chance is to make certain they can go to any school they want. If you are smart enough to get in, money shouldn't be an object. We want the best not the richest ;)

      --
      "This message was brought to you by Sarcasm and Troll Feeders United (or STFU, for you un-hip people)."
    107. Re:The people lose again by dave420 · · Score: 1

      Get a grip, sunshine. You are sounding pathetic. "Defective"? As defective as other OSs, sure.

    108. Re:The people lose again by MoeDumb · · Score: 1, Informative

      " . . . that we The Peeps (aka Government) . . . "

      We, the Peeps, are not the Government. We are the governed.

      --
      Mod Me Up. You'll make a grown man cry.
    109. Re:The people lose again by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      A market is not a magical supernatural force that exists above humanity like a god.

      A market is a group of people buying, selling, and trading. By putting your faith in the magic of the market as a force above humanity and not as an institution created by humans, you have effectively joined a religion.

      Markets need humans to exist, and humans who interact in markets are constantly trying to manipulate the market to favor their own profits. This is why market regulation is necessary.

      Free-Market Faith is not that different from a religious man declaring his favorite book completely infallible. And when you ask simple questions about the way deregulation has made our economy more brittle or decreased our ability to produce, he'll smile and with great faith explain that those problems came from non-believers who tried to interfere with the market.

    110. Re:The people lose again by xtracto · · Score: 1

      Unless I can listen to the entire album in-store, I don't know what I'm buying. Lets say I buy a physical good, a clock radio for example.

      Here in Germany, the Saturn shop allows you to open any disk you want and listen to it before you buy it. If you do not like it you can just put it in a special place where they will shrinkwrap it again for someone else.

      It is quite convenient and really removes all those "try before buying" excuses from pirates.

      --
      Ubuntu is an African word meaning 'I can't configure Debian'
    111. Re:The people lose again by smi.james.th · · Score: 1

      Not as though this topic hasn't been discussed over and over here though.

      --
      One thing I know, and that is that I am ignorant...
    112. Re:The people lose again by AltairDusk · · Score: 1

      That is certainly unfortunate. My own experience with their customer service has been much better. If they tried that on me I would probably start shopping elsewhere as well but thus far they have pretty much bent over backwards to help me out on any issue.

    113. Re:The people lose again by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      As in your previous example, it sort of makes me wonder how Uwe Boll manages to rake in any audiences. Is it possible people pay to see his movies simply because they felt pity upon him and wanted to throw him a bone?

      I know of a few reviewers who would probably pay him to stop making movies.

      I think the phrase, "morbid curiosity" explains it best...

    114. Re:The people lose again by Brad+Eleven · · Score: 1
      This is the old "protecting our way of life" meme. It is not an inclusive use of "our." It is the government saying, "We and our cronies prefer it this way."

      Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed. ~the Declaration of Independence

      --
      "Press to test."
      (click)
      "Release to detonate."
    115. Re:The people lose again by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Now a copyright can be viewed as physical property, but that is the copyright itself. To permanently deprive somebody of their copyright means I somehow transferred those legal entitlements to myself and started receiving money and granting others license to use that work, per my newly and illicitly acquired intellectual property rights.

      So... like a record label, then?

      Oooh! Zing!

    116. Re:The people lose again by purpledinoz · · Score: 1

      Parent is exactly right. Why do all US universities have such amazing gym facilities? However, I believe that with better government policies, these kind of subsidies CAN work. In Canada, there are Government supported loans, however, there are limits on tuition prices. This prevents universities from being able to take advantage of the ability for students to get credit. The sport facilities in Canadian universities are definitely not top notch, but I think it's a good compromise to affordable education.

    117. Re:The people lose again by camg188 · · Score: 1

      the same corporations that are waging a campaign to bankrupt college students

      Students get deep discounts on software, unless you are talking about games and movies.

    118. Re:The people lose again by easterberry · · Score: 1

      I pay about $1000/semester (not counting rent, food and books) for a full load. But I live in Canada. Where the evil socialist dragons live.

    119. Re:The people lose again by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Every time someone responds to a post that calmly and clearly states the reasons why government involvement in a particular sector is bad by calling them a "whargarbling ideologue" you know you have some scrawny black-rimmed glasses wearing DailyKos reader who thinks he is hilarious for saying "Teabagger.

      Go fuck yourself - he clearly explained why government involvement in the student loan market is bad, and you respond by saying he is spouting "ideology." Guess what? Your complete fucking ignorance of any argument that defies your upper-middle class white liberal ideals is more ideology-based than most of the Teabagger garbage.

    120. Re:The people lose again by Proteus+Child · · Score: 1

      Your claims sound fishy without corroborating evidence because they seem to ignore necessities like paying other bills, rent, and how much one typically makes immediately following graduation? How much did you wind up borrowing to be able to pay it off in just six months? Were you living on your own or with your parents to be able to throw just about every one of your paychecks at those loan payments? How much were you making immediately after graduation?

      --

      Proteus' Child

      Doko ni datte; hito wa, tsunagette iru.

    121. Re:The people lose again by Hurricane78 · · Score: 1

      And that is completely and utterly retarded.

      There is no such thing as “the first copy“. They generated information. Which is a service. Not a good. Not a product. And especially not a physical object.
      Then they give it all away, including all their control, by passing the information on to someone. In return for something.
      And *then* they beg you to pay them money? After someone already paid for exactly what they asked?

      That is the business model of total idiots. Sorry. But how can a human possibly be that stupid and delusional?? It is a religion, or what? Because you can’t act in such a way without believing in it like a fundamentalist.

      They should have asked for the cost of their service, plus the profits, at tha first sale. Now it’s too late. Boo hoo. Cry me a river. Or how they say on the Internets: EPIC FAIL!

      --
      Any sufficiently advanced intelligence is indistinguishable from stupidity.
    122. Re:The people lose again by sconeu · · Score: 2

      Dude. My daughter goes to UCSD. My cost (in-state) for one year? $28K -- counting tuition, room, board, books, and fees.

      That's IN STATE. My younger daughter is considering UW. That would set me back about $38K per year.

      --
      General Relativity: Space-time tells matter where to go; Matter tells space-time what shape to be.
    123. Re:The people lose again by Hurricane78 · · Score: 1

      To be honest: Alex Jones created a religion. He is a bad example. You are without a doubt right but he still is a very bad example.
      He’s a conspiracy theorist that is the other extreme of what he hates. Which is just as bad. Because he’s just as much not trustworthy.

      Make no mistakes.. I have given him a big huge long chance. I have watched lots of his stuff. And checked things for myself. Something nobody else ever does. Which means I did not believe either the ones he hates, nor him, and just looked at if his arguments were consistent and based on basic reality (physics).

      1. The basis of his arguments are show as plain in-your-face facts that everybody could check. But nobody does, because they all believe that it’s so clear that it does not need checking. Like an old friend of mine, who used to go “I fucked that girl. Don’t believe me? Well, here’s the phone! Call her!”. I never did. But then when I grew up, he pulled that again. And I did call het. And some of the old ones. And they did either not even know who he was, or didn’t have had anything. Same thing here. I checked the stuff. It’s made up. Which shocked even me, since I was sure that some of them could not possibly have been made up.
      2. He is inconsistent with everything else. Physics, my sense or reality and in fact the sense of reality of every mindset there is.
      3. Which is no surprise, since he’s even inconsistent in pretty much all he does himself. Even in the very same article/report. Yes, that’s right. In the very same text or video you just have to analyze the logic, and a bit later you will find at least two or three things that do not match the previously conveyed sense of reality. It’s beyond silly. It’s beyond just being delusional. It’s the seed that leads to split personalities.

      So you could say, that his behavior is in fact projection (the term from psychology). If he can hate others he can express his hate for such a behavior, without having to hate himself. The sad thing is that he got a good bait there. Because the ones he hates actually are nearly as crooked as he tries to show that they are. So people flock to it like crazy. It just fits their views. And people like their views to be confirmed.

      And the really sad thing is, that if he would actually go the full way, and make his stuff consistent and based on proper paradigms, he could actually change the world for the better.
      But in this state, he’s just making the case of how conspiracy theorists are always such complete nutjobs. (Which they obviously aren’t always.)

      Conclusion: :((

      --
      Any sufficiently advanced intelligence is indistinguishable from stupidity.
    124. Re:The people lose again by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Can't Obama kick enough ass to fix government?

    125. Re:The people lose again by kiljoy001 · · Score: 1

      Thanks - Never heard of Juno Reactor till today :)

    126. Re:The people lose again by citylivin · · Score: 4, Insightful

      "All of us agree that there needs to be a way to keep others from profiting from our work"

      For how long, perpetuity? You say that your father invented rock-a-billy. Wikipedia claims that this style of music was invented in the 50s. So we are looking now at 60 years ago. So something your father created and released 60 years ago should still be generating revenue for you and your family? What about when it gets to 100 years, 200? When does it get to become part of our shared cultural heritage, that anyone should be able to enjoy? Never? When you made "enough" money from it?

      I get that you want to make money for work your father did 50 or 60 years ago, but if i build a computer or a house or a deck for someone, i don't then get collect royalties and expect them to support me 60 years later. Or in your example, ask permission to have a dinner party on the deck. You are basically denying people access to a part of the culture, because you want to make more money. I get it, and honestly, if i was in the same position Im not saying I wouldn't do the exact same thing. It does also complicate things that they are charging money for it. Ideally, no one should have to pay for any music. Sometimes for rare things that are simply not available anywhere, you end up paying someone who has access to the content. What I would do if I were you, is release the content in question on your own website as a digital download for a small fee to cover hosting and bandwidth (perhaps 5$ an album). You could very easily destroy any profit that this sweedish company is making overnight.

      Thats a creative solution to your problem, which allows you to make some money and also allows people access to perhaps hard to find recordings. Music is about telling a story. No one has a right to determine who can and cannot listen to stories. The whole of humanities oral traditions are at stake with the locking up and denying of access to culture.

      --
      As a potential lottery winner, I totally support tax cuts for the wealthy
    127. Re:The people lose again by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Theft of intellectual property IS possible and it happens all the time. But not in the way anyone, especially the big media companies, think.

      So-called "intellectual property" is nothing of the sort. It belongs to the public. The creators of the content are merely leasing it for a limited time. The price of their leasing it? Creating it in the first place.

      So theft of intellectual property is any action that prevents that property from returning to the public in a timely matter. Retroactive copyright extensions. Continual copyright extensions that collectively mean that nothing will ever go into the public domain. And my personal favorite, DRM that prevents the work from returning to the true owner (the public) even when the copyright expires.

      That is the real theft of intellectual property.

    128. Re:The people lose again by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Congratulations! You win the first Idiocy Award for conflating physical with intellectual goods as if the distinction hasn't been made millions of times in prior discussions.

      For the million and oneth time, stolen profits are not considered intellectual property.

      Bend over and accept your award.

      If I gotta bend over so I can pull it out of your ass, then you may as well keep it. You've obviously done more to earn it, you ignorant fuck.

    129. Re:The people lose again by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You could be Canadian Aboriginal and get paid to receive an education... I'm not sure of the details but I knew some people from high-school that this was a fact. I'm pretty sure they carried on into University only to drop out.

    130. Re:The people lose again by toriver · · Score: 1

      No, you are not right. That you are using an example involving physical items shows that you utterly fail to see the point. Which is that theft and copyright infringement are radically different concepts.

    131. Re:The people lose again by commodore64_love · · Score: 1

      >>>rates had gone up

      Not in my experience. My college's tuition has remained the same since I first showed up in 1990, after adjusting for the paper dollar's devaluation (aka inflation). My State's public-owned university also followed the inflation curve, and has not changed its rate in Real value.
      .

      >>>students graduating with $50k, $100k, and even $550k in debt

      $550,000? Only if they paid $100,000 a year at some overpriced med school. That's not the experience of most 4-year students that pay between $15 and $30 thousand. ----- I had about $60,000 when I graduated, which is equivalent to $100,000 in today's paper. Things really haven't changed that much.

       

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    132. Re:The people lose again by commodore64_love · · Score: 1

      >>>I pay about $1000/semester

      And then you pay an additional $30,000 per semester in heavy taxation. The cost has to come from somewhere, and in your case it's merely been deferred to your working years and your paycheck.

      Also there are people paying for your college, who never went to college themselves. That doesn't seem fair that non-college people should have to support college people. Talk about the poor subsidizing the upper class! Bogus.

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    133. Re:The people lose again by commodore64_love · · Score: 1

      >>>To be honest: Alex Jones created a religion.

      And mass media doesn't? Look how people react around celebrities. Religion. The record company would do just fine if they gave stuff away online, because there are still enough people who want to buy CDs, DVDs, posters, and other crap (i.e. own a "piece" of a singer or actor) that they would stay in business.

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    134. Re:The people lose again by commodore64_love · · Score: 1

      >>>You don't have a Constitutional or Natural Law right to a fair returns policy at Wally World

      That would be fine if you had a real choice, but no store anywhere let's you return a CD or DVD that you did not like. And it isn't their fault. The record companies refuse store sendbacks, just the same way they forced stores to sell CDs for $12 minimum (from late 80s through 2000). The government stepped-in and charged the record companies with price-fixing, and I think the government should make a similar maneuver to require record companies to accept store sendbacks regardless of the store's reason.

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    135. Re:The people lose again by gknoy · · Score: 1

      The problem here is that few people (maybe you have, and if so, awesome) actually go to a bookstore and read a *whole* book before they decide to buy it. Where do you draw the line there?

      "Wow, the butler didn't do it. That sucks. No sale."

      Most people might read the back cover, maybe the first chapter, read a few reviews online, and decide. Especially if they've read other works by that author. But the whole book?

      Most people won't, but the stores generally still do nothing to prevent it. There are archipelagos of comfy chairs scattered around my local Barnes and Noble, as well as a coffee shop in-store, where I could (in theory) sit down for an hour each day and read another chapter or two.

      If I spent my lunch hour doing that, instead of browsing the web, I could read a couple dozen books a year, without paying B&N anything. Now, they might ask me not to, and could kick me out, but I've never heard of anyone doing so. I realize also that you might say "that's what a library is for!" -- and it's true. However, most major bookstores are still quite OK with you sitting and reading for an extended time.

    136. Re:The people lose again by commodore64_love · · Score: 0, Troll

      >>>they were the ones who had bundled it -- they said it was my responsibility to verify that it was compatible

      Sounds reasonable to me. When I encounter asshole sellers like that, where they want to charge me 15% restocking or shipping fee for THEIR error, I then return a trackable envelope that's empty. Then I file a chargeback. I figure people who treat their customers that poorly deserve to lose money
      .

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    137. Re:The people lose again by toriver · · Score: 1

      Unlicensed copying is NOT and NEVER has been stealing despite the abuse of language the price-fixing entertainment guilds practice.

      What is so bloody HARD to understand? That if both act A and act B are illegal it does not follow they are the same act?

      What's next, that the artists are raped? That's illegal too you know.

      Oh, and hundreds of black blues musicians who either could not afford or did not know they needed to register copyright would like to be compensated by the white musicians who copied them. The industries you slobber at the feet of are NOT good people.

    138. Re:The people lose again by BJ_Covert_Action · · Score: 1

      Cops would rather chase drug kingpins or bank robbers.

      Which is probably what they should be doing as those types of crimes are an actual harm to society, that often get people hurt or killed. But now, thanks to the greed and stubbornness of a few rich bastards in Hollywood, our tax dollars fund a police force that spends it's time ensuring movies get sold by the right people, rather than spending it's time protecting the public that it is swore to protect. Go figure.

    139. Re:The people lose again by commodore64_love · · Score: 1

      Well even if the company doesn't claim the item is working, but the customer discovers the thing leaks oil all over the floor, the law will protect the customer. "As is" laws included a presumption that the item is functional, and it is the company or seller's responsibility to reveal all the flaws upfront.

      The law almost always sides against the seller and in favor of the buyer.

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    140. Re:The people lose again by easterberry · · Score: 1

      And then you pay an additional $30,000 per semester in heavy taxation. The cost has to come from somewhere, and in your case it's merely been deferred to your working years and your paycheck.

      Also there are people paying for your college, who never went to college themselves. That doesn't seem fair that non-college people should have to support college people. Talk about the poor subsidizing the upper class! Bogus.

      "$30,000" REALLY? Our taxes aren't that much higher than yours. Americans seem to have this image that we pay like 90% income tax and 50% HST or something. We don't. Also, "lower class supporting the upper class?" my family is lower middle class. Me and my siblings would not all have been able to afford to go to school without govt subsidy.

      It's similar to the fact that were it not for international healthcare I would literally be dead right now since I would not have bothered going to check that minor chest pain which I thought was nothing and would not have paid $300 to get x-rays done for that ended up being a collapsed lung that was slowly killing me

      Also, there are people whos houses never burn down who still have to support the fire dept. how is that fair? People who never eat every food the FDA ever inspects still pay into having that food inspected. people who don't drive (like me) still pay for road maintainance. If you want a fair society where you only pay for the things you specifically need then A) you're both, imho, greedy and an asshole and B) I suggest you go find a nice place in the woods up north free from police, social support and roads and see how long you make it without the social structure we're all chipping in to pay for.

    141. Re:The people lose again by Shakrai · · Score: 1

      I disagree. There's ample opportunities to listen to music before you buy it. Pandora and similar services, FM radio, radio from your cable company, the sample headphones at Barnes and Noble, etc, etc, etc.

      You are just pissed because you can't buy a CD, rip it and return it for a full refund. It's ok, you can admit it -- I hate the record industry too and won't judge you for it.

      --
      I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
      We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
    142. Re:The people lose again by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What happens if you receive two of the same thing for your birthday/christmas etc? Just a thought.

    143. Re:The people lose again by osgeek · · Score: 1

      But it's not criminal, no one was harmed except in their wallet.

      Quick, tell Bernie Madoff's lawyer to use that line in his appeals.

    144. Re:The people lose again by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, do stomp the snot out of that strawman. Good work. The poster never said "Everything the government [does is bad]." More specifically, he said, "Government clearly has important roles. Providing student loans is not one of them."

    145. Re:The people lose again by X0563511 · · Score: 1

      Some good stuff. On Labyrinth, I like Conquistador I and II, and Mona Lisa Overdrive.

      You'd recognize that last one from the second Matrix movie. It was the soundtrack for the highway chase (though the chanting was removed for the movie, the real version is better IMO).

      Pistolero (a single) is also nice. Think Spanish Guitar + breakbeats heh.

      --
      For large sets, this will be our guide even unto death, for the LORD will work for each type of data it is applied to...
    146. Re:The people lose again by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      License agreements not presented at time of sale (esp ones that say return it if you don't like it). If we are forced to accept the license at POS the retailer should have to as well (IE accept returns). If you don't agree to the license most commercial software don't work, IE it should be returnable as non-working. This should be really really true with DRMd crap as the DRM should supposedly prevent copying and returning (slight sarcasm at that) and the locks themselves could render a product you buy "a license for" non-working.

    147. Re:The people lose again by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why don't you put your money where your mouth is? Seriously. Since you're so keen on abolishing copyright, why don't you list the otherwise-valuable products/services you have provided to the public, free of charge? After all, it's not all about you, or is it?

      What?

    148. Re:The people lose again by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Face it. Many Slashdotters are against copyright and patents just because they want to freeload. They don't give a thought to the consequences their actions have.

      Oh, please just fuck off. Seriously.

    149. Re:The people lose again by paganizer · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Just to clarify, I don't deserve a dime from any work my dad created; I had nothing to do with it.

      I honestly don't have any idea what is fair; on one hand I think the lifetime of the artist sounds good, with maybe the possibility of a one time only extension of...10 years? by the artists heirs.
      On the other hand, I think that might be too long; how about 10 years from creation, with the artist able to renew it for another 10 years at a time during their lifetime, with heirs only getting a cut during the time after the artist dies until the last renewal runs out?

      But this disney crap is ridiculous; what my dad did in the late 50's and 60's I think he should still get any money generated from it, he created it, it's his. If Walt Disney was still alive, I would probably feel the same way about his work.

      My dad decided to make a deal with the Swedish company, and got about 5% of their CD run free to sell on the rare occasions when he still performs publicly; it works for him.

      Which brings up a question; every time copyright comes up, someone always says that musicians should expect to get their income from public performances... what about those who aren't capable of making public performances due to age or disability? What sort of pension should the government give to creators of original work, when their ability to create leaves them (if they are no longer able to profit from their past work, that is).

      --
      Why, yes, I AM a Pagan Libertarian.
    150. Re:The people lose again by paganizer · · Score: 1

      Interesting point.

      My OPINION is that if someone sets up a website, or flea market stand, specifically for the purpose of selling music or art that they have no rights to, that does border on the criminal.

      But...sharing it? not selling it? Giving it away? Civil, at worst, fandom at best.

      Bernie purposefully defrauded people, lied to people to get their money. not the same anyway, really.

      --
      Why, yes, I AM a Pagan Libertarian.
    151. Re:The people lose again by Richard_at_work · · Score: 1

      Why aren't you running? Why should there always be a candidate who shares your views and opinions?

    152. Re:The people lose again by Abcd1234 · · Score: 1

      Sure, but the solution isn't to just keep providing more money. That's just a positive feedback loop, and the results are predictable.

      Right. The alternative is to make education unavailable to more people, driving down demand. Screw the poor, they're already too stupid to defy gravity and pull themselves up by their own bootstraps... who's fault is that? There's, obviously. And don't talk to me about scholarships, all that does is distort the market and drive up tuition by increasing demand...

    153. Re:The people lose again by Abcd1234 · · Score: 1

      And speaking of shitty education, apparently I'm having a bad homonym day... stupid their/there BS...

    154. Re:The people lose again by Abcd1234 · · Score: 1

      what my dad did in the late 50's and 60's I think he should still get any money generated from it

      Err... why? That was *50 fucking years ago*. Why the hell should he be able to continue to make income on works he created half a lifetime ago?

      what about those who aren't capable of making public performances due to age or disability?

      The same thing my grandfather, unable to work construction anymore, does: live on his retirement savings, or find another line of work.

      Why the hell should your artist father be any different?

    155. Re:The people lose again by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      When you see an individual struggling to keep up and wanting a college education to both help the people of the world (inspiration, dream, not necessarily helping in the big picture) and another individual who is "struggling to keep up" and "wants to help the people of the world" who walks in in gold chains and such, and the individual with the excessive gold wear gets a scholarship, no questions asked, and the person who really needs it does NOT get it and cannot afford college, something is wrong.

      When you cannot afford college, something is definitely wrong.

      When it can break you when you make a decent amount, something is wrong with that. (paying off said loans that you required)

      Banks have been bailed out, now excessive credit card users are being helped a bit as a result and those people with excessive mortgages, when does the college help come??

      Wow. Way to spout bullshit and not even attempt to back it up with anything. I'd say you're what's wrong with the discussion of serious issues these days.

    156. Re:The people lose again by Rich0 · · Score: 1

      Obviously the impact of scholarships would be much lower than the impact of loans to the general student population. This would also concentrate financial aid among those who would most benefit from it, and also those who are most likely to repay it in the form of taxes.

      Believe it or not there is a solution somewhere between poor kids don't have any eduction and spending billions of dollars on college administrator salaries...

    157. Re:The people lose again by nx · · Score: 1

      In Sweden schooling is not only free but you also get around $800 each month while you study.

      Except it's not free. It's subsidized, so you're paying for it by paying taxes. As far as "giving everyone a chance", I suppose that might mean different things to different people. Sure, no tuition means that poor people can go to college. Except they don't. By a large margin, college students have parents who also went to college, and so on. I'm not sure why this is, maybe working class parents instill a different set of values in their children, one that might not prioritize getting a degree.

      While tuition-less college might mean that it's easier go from poor to middle class, the taxation levels also mean that it's more difficult going from middle class to rich. It's also frequently claimed (at least by Norberg, et al) that the US has a higher social mobility than Sweden, meaning that while it's certainly possible to go from working class to rich, it happens less frequently than it does in the US.

      We want the best not the richest

      Do you really believe that the best are studying at Uppsala or Lund, and not at Harvard and Oxford? What I mean to say is, the best can usually get a scholarship. If your objective is to maximize human capital, my guess the US is doing a better job of it.

      --
      L'homme est né libre, et partout il est dans les fers.
    158. Re:The people lose again by Anzya · · Score: 1

      While tuition-less college might mean that it's easier go from poor to middle class, the taxation levels also mean that it's more difficult going from middle class to rich. It's also frequently claimed (at least by Norberg, et al) that the US has a higher social mobility than Sweden, meaning that while it's certainly possible to go from working class to rich, it happens less frequently than it does in the US.

      Actually, the most recent research I have heard of in the subjects says the opposite. The countries with best social mobility are Norway, Denmark, Sweden, Finland and Canada. With the US and UK not doing that well. Social mobility low in Britain and falling It's from 2005 so not that fresh maybe. The most recent one I have read is in Swedish and in dead tree format so I have trouble linking to it. :)

      Do you really believe that the best are studying at Uppsala or Lund, and not at Harvard and Oxford? What I mean to say is, the best can usually get a scholarship. If your objective is to maximize human capital, my guess the US is doing a better job of it.

      Maybe I should have said "the best in Sweden"? But I would say that considering our size we have lots of talented people. We are not a big country, just a bit more people than New York city. It's not really surprising that USA can have more and better universities. But I can't help wondering how much of that superiority is due to a larger pool of people to draw from. If we somewhat simplified use the numbers that 2% of every population are highly intelligent then that would mean that there are around 190 000 in Sweden and around 6 136 420 in the USA.

      --
      "This message was brought to you by Sarcasm and Troll Feeders United (or STFU, for you un-hip people)."
    159. Re:The people lose again by osgeek · · Score: 1

      So, the if I get behind the wheel of my car intending to kill someone, it's a crime.

      If I just go out drinking to have fun but someone I kill someone on my way home, it's not?

  2. Any plans to crack down on the FED? by AthleteMusicianNerd · · Score: 2, Insightful

    The biggest counterfeiter of them all is the Federal Reserve. This is why you don't have frauds enforce fraud laws.

    1. Re:Any plans to crack down on the FED? by kindbud · · Score: 1

      The Federal Reserve is a private corporation, not a government agency.

      --
      Edith Keeler Must Die
    2. Re:Any plans to crack down on the FED? by Chineseyes · · Score: 1

      Actually yes http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/06/16/AR2010061605541.html?hpid=sec-business Lawmakers on Wednesday reached a compromise to allow expanded audits of the Federal Reserve, part of an effort to shine light on the central bank's emergency lending during the financial crisis while safeguarding its independence in setting monetary policy.

      --
      I think the invisible hand of the market has its middle finger extended

      --A wise old fart named SC0RN
    3. Re:Any plans to crack down on the FED? by AthleteMusicianNerd · · Score: 1

      I'm well aware of this bill. It hasn't got enough support in the Senate yet, and they're trying to attach it to another bill which shouldn't happen.

      Bernanke the fraud along with tax fraud Tim Geithner are trying to argue that 'we' don't want to politicize monetary policy even though the Fed Chair is appointed by a politician.

      Given that this bill has way more support than the health care bill, or any of the bailouts(which were passed in about 2 days) and is only one page in length, it should have been passed last year.

    4. Re:Any plans to crack down on the FED? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Start by killing niggers

    5. Re:Any plans to crack down on the FED? by hedwards · · Score: 1

      Strictly speaking it is a private corporation, but the head is appointed by the federal government. And the Fed has authority to engage in regulatory activity as well as will into being massive amounts of money with a few key strokes.

    6. Re:Any plans to crack down on the FED? by thePowerOfGrayskull · · Score: 1

      When a private corporation is effectively controlled by government political appointment, it ceases to be a private corporation.

    7. Re:Any plans to crack down on the FED? by unity · · Score: 1

      "but the head is appointed by the federal government."

      The head is appointed/chosen from a pre-selected list of potential appointees by the federal. "reserve" board. And the fed says to the congress, "hey, technically you get to choose which of these people to appoint, but this is the one you are going to appoint." and they follow orders.

      The government can't just appoint whomever they want.

    8. Re:Any plans to crack down on the FED? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "The government can't just appoint whomever they want."

      Yes this is true, the Rothschild banker cartel must appoint whatever Jew it is they wish to run it. The government indeed has absolutely no say so.

    9. Re:Any plans to crack down on the FED? by refrigeratorpanic · · Score: 1

      False.

    10. Re:Any plans to crack down on the FED? by Hurricane78 · · Score: 1

      You have to ask Goldman Sachs and China about that one. In terms of money, they own the FED by now. And I mean in the literal sense.

      --
      Any sufficiently advanced intelligence is indistinguishable from stupidity.
  3. The White House is full of wimps by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

    I agree with General McChrystal on this one.

    1. Re:The White House is full of wimps by Nikola+Tesla+and+You · · Score: 2, Interesting
      So says "Anonymous Coward". McChrystal never said that:

      One anonymous aide said McChrystal seized control of the war "by never taking his eye off the real enemy: The wimps in the White House."

      So we have two Anonymous Cowards calling officials at the White House wimps. Coincidence? I think not.

  4. Yay. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Yay for CHANGE!!! ...oh wait...

  5. Fooled us by hansamurai · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Well, what did we really expect when the Copyright Czar position was created?

    1. Re:Fooled us by Statecraftsman · · Score: 1

      Well the highest ranked czar in Google Suggest saw Imperial Russia "go from being one of the foremost great powers of the world to an economic and military disaster."(wikipedia) Yeah, substitute USA for Imperial Russia and that's about right.

    2. Re:Fooled us by Jeremi · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Well, what did we really expect when the Copyright Czar position was created?

      I read somewhere (I can't remember where now) that when the US realizes that a problem is un-solvable, its final response is to appoint a Czar to take the blame for the problem remaining unsolved.

      Works for me!

      --


      I don't care if it's 90,000 hectares. That lake was not my doing.
    3. Re:Fooled us by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nothing less than the ruling class trying to put in place a mechanism that would stop a third-grade politician with a race card from getting national attention and donations via the internets. It could only happen once.

    4. Re:Fooled us by DigiShaman · · Score: 4, Insightful

      You know that bill that would grant the Executive branch the ability to police the internet? You know, the one regarding national security. Ya, that one.

      Now you know what it's really about. Protecting the industry that votes Democrat and squelching free speech that criticizes the party in power.

      --
      Life is not for the lazy.
    5. Re:Fooled us by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well, what did we really expect when the Copyright Czar position was created?

      A revolution.
      *puts on furry hat and waits patiently*

    6. Re:Fooled us by Tassach · · Score: 5, Informative

      Protecting the industry that votes Democrat and squelching free speech that criticizes the party in power.

      Protecting the copyright cartels is one of the few things both parties agree on. Don't forget that Sonny Bono, author/sponsor of the copyright for eternity-on-the-installment-plan, was a Republican. Both houses passed this stinking piece of legislative manure by voice vote, which makes it impossible to determine who voted for or against. Republicans controlled both the h

      Take your partisan nitwittery elsewhere, where the audience isn't persuaded by facts. Freep, perhaps.

      --
      Why is it that the proponents of "one nation under God" are so eager to get rid of "liberty and justice for all"?
    7. Re:Fooled us by Shakrai · · Score: 2, Informative

      Well, I assume his second remark was in reference to the so-called "fairness doctrine", which is pretty much universally opposed by the GOP......

      --
      I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
      We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
    8. Re:Fooled us by DigiShaman · · Score: 1

      Correct.

      --
      Life is not for the lazy.
    9. Re:Fooled us by Culture20 · · Score: 1
      No one would ever squelch free speech!

      the appeals court said that if Congress felt taking away from the public domain was in its best interests, then there was no First Amendment violation at all

      Congress can declare copyright on all of our founding documents? "I'm sorry, you can't teach the Constitution in class because you must first license it for $1,000,000,000,000 per copy!"

    10. Re:Fooled us by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Posting as AC,

      My advice is to read your state constitution. If I remember correctly- each state has one which is basically a copy of the federal with additional local additions. Should the US Union start to break apart, you will want to have residence in the state that fits your lifestyle, culture, and philosophical views on life. I would imagine moving between them after the fact might be more difficult. Perhaps not (who knows).

      I'm just saying... Get educated and prepare yourself for an event that just might happen in our lifetime.

    11. Re:Fooled us by symbolset · · Score: 1

      Expect? That they would make pronouncements and weak policy, which would be completely ineffectual - just like every feckless "X Czar" and impotent "war on X" since the LBJ administration.

      So far they're playing to form.

      I had fair hopes for an effective Obama presidency, and so far he's holding up. In this case it's the effectiveness in getting all of the copyright lobby's money for no real action except for some lip service. I'm still worried, since they pulled almost every Justice appointee from the RIAA, but it seems like they housebroke them quickly.

      --
      Help stamp out iliturcy.
    12. Re:Fooled us by tepples · · Score: 1

      Congress can declare copyright on all of our founding documents?

      Works of the United States Government are in the public domain, and works published before 1923 have had a full copyright term and are thus in the public domain. The restoration case wasn't about works whose copyright expired at the end of the U.S. copyright term. It was about works whose copyrights were lost due to failure in a formality that is no longer required.

  6. It's all going to hell... by rastoboy29 · · Score: 2

    in a handbasket.

    1. Re:It's all going to hell... by jd2112 · · Score: 1

      You are under arrest for travelling in a counterfeit handbasket.

      --
      Any insufficiently advanced magic is indistinguishable from technology.
  7. This is what happens when it all goes oversees by Dynedain · · Score: 4, Insightful

    And this is what happens when the US no longer has any manufacturing and produces very little real, tangible, goods or services. Between executives and shareholders wringing every last penny of quarterly profit at the expense of long-term goals, regulations and unions forcing unsustainable operating expenses, and skyrocketing education costs paired with plummeting education quality, long-term viability of the US business sector is caving.

    The only thing the US has left that is of value on the global market is "intellectual property". This means regardless of whether you vote Republican or Democrat, you will get politicians that support crackdowns on piracy and extension of copyright protections.

    --
    I'm out of my mind right now, but feel free to leave a message.....
    1. Re:This is what happens when it all goes oversees by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You haven't even seen the start of it yet. Hollyweird and major media corps realize that modestly funded foreigners (gasp!) and local independent producers can turn out the same product (and even better) as they do. It's the death-rattle of a dying "industry" and it can't come soon enough. There will be a lot of really absurd lobbying and laws past in the very near future as they fight it.

      Get back to basics, get back to agriculture and manufacturing or prepare to get steamrollered.

    2. Re:This is what happens when it all goes oversees by Darkness404 · · Score: 1

      This means regardless of whether you vote Republican or Democrat, you will get politicians that support crackdowns on piracy and extension of copyright protections.

      Whether you vote Republican or Democrat you will get essentially the same politicians which differ on small, trivial issues that hide the underlying sameness of the parties.

      Until we get a third party elected, we will have mostly the same which is parties bought by various corporations, parties ignoring the constitution, parties ignoring those who they've been elected by.

      The way I see it, both major parties fail at listening to those who elected them and most importantly actually reading the constitution.

      --
      Taxation is legalized theft, no more, no less.
    3. Re:This is what happens when it all goes oversees by melikamp · · Score: 1

      This is just wishful thinking. The following statements badly need citations:

      • the US no longer has any manufacturing and produces very little real, tangible, goods or services
      • executives and shareholders wringing every last penny of quarterly profit at the expense of long-term goals
      • regulations and unions forcing unsustainable operating expenses
      • plummeting education quality
      • The only thing the US has left that is of value on the global market is "intellectual property"

      The only noncontroversial statement you've made is about the price of education going up. I am not sure if it is "skyrocketing", though.

    4. Re:This is what happens when it all goes oversees by Dynedain · · Score: 1

      This isn't wikipedia. Do a Google search on any of those phrases and you'll see that the evidence supports my position.

      --
      I'm out of my mind right now, but feel free to leave a message.....
    5. Re:This is what happens when it all goes oversees by kubitus · · Score: 1

      IMHO well observed:
      http://www.worldmapper.org/display.php?selected=99
      http://www.worldmapper.org/display.php?selected=100

      And I think this statement is the begin of the canon-boat diplomacy in the Internet!

  8. How to combat online piracy by cafelatte · · Score: 1

    With a scimitar! Whilst wearing an eye patch and using an Irish accent. Yaaahrrrrr me maties!

    1. Re:How to combat online piracy by tobiah · · Score: 1

      ha!

      --
      "The ability to delude yourself may be an important survival tool" - Jane Wagner -
  9. CounterPiracy? by turtleAJ · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Let's keep on expanding the "ease of use" for anonymous p2p networks.

    p2p is the ENTIRE future of our progress as humanity.
    Governments/Corporations (and Government, Inc.orporations) have no idea what will happen when nanoscale-printers arrive, USB Plug&Play Ready.

    Think about pirating processors... monitors... wireless antenna designs... turbochargers... medicines... perfumes... textiles... Rolex watches... solar panels... more nano-printers.

    The future belongs to us.
    Let's work on the p2p networks.

    =)

    1. Re:CounterPiracy? by cesarb · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Some people have already been thinking about the legal implications of 3D printers. You might be interested in the following paper:

      "The Intellectual Property Implications of Low-Cost 3D Printing"

    2. Re:CounterPiracy? by Sabriel · · Score: 1

      Governments/Corporations (and Government, Inc.orporations) have no idea what will happen when nanoscale-printers arrive, USB Plug&Play Ready.

      Most? Yeah. But some? Like hell they don't.

    3. Re:CounterPiracy? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Have you read Diamond Age?

    4. Re:CounterPiracy? by inflamez · · Score: 1

      Very interesting read. Thank's for sharing the link.

    5. Re:CounterPiracy? by turtleAJ · · Score: 1

      THANK YOU!
      Going to read this now.
      =)

    6. Re:CounterPiracy? by Burz · · Score: 1

      p2p is the ENTIRE future of our progress as humanity.

      After looking at the charts that kubitus linked above, the scope of your statement seems justified.

      But what are these odd-sounding "anonymous p2p" networks you speak of?

      :-)

  10. So... by Kitkoan · · Score: 1

    the plan is for the US to try to use US laws on foreign/non-US people and websites until they conform to US laws... *grabs popcorn* well this might be fun to watch.

    --
    Attention... all grammer nazi"s! Is they're anything; wrong with: my post,
    1. Re:So... by Jhon · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I think it's more likely that the US will try to use US laws on US ISPs to BLOCK foreign/non-US websites -- until those websites conform to US laws.

      I don't think it's going to be much fun.

    2. Re:So... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ahhh, good ol' cencorship - gotta keep the children safe.

    3. Re:So... by countertrolling · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Just redirect everything to China, and let them do the filtering... One more thing we can outsource..

      --
      For justice, we must go to Don Corleone
  11. Product pricing by future+assassin · · Score: 2, Insightful

    People rather pirate your products because the new mediums changed the value of your product and no one wants to pay $20 for a file when it costs $20 for hard good version of your product. Price it accordingly and people will come back.

    --
    by TheSpoom (715771) Uncaring Linux user here. I have nothing to add to this but please continue. *munches popcorn*
    1. Re:Product pricing by Kitkoan · · Score: 1

      The companies don't want to price things accordingly because of their current investment in their supply. They feel if they charge less/more accordingly for the digital-only product then they will kill their physical products leaving them with a LOT of stock and manufacturing equipment that just can't move/use because everyone bought the cheaper digital-only version. They seem to hope that even if they can get digital sales to be the norm that they can keep maximum profits and (blindly) hope that people are so accustomed to paying $20 for a movie that they won't consider the difference in how the movie is purchased and that a movie truly is worth spending $20 on regardless of it's format.

      --
      Attention... all grammer nazi"s! Is they're anything; wrong with: my post,
    2. Re:Product pricing by RandomAdam · · Score: 1

      Annoyingly things are priced at "what the market will bear" now what the thing is worth. People have overwhelmingly shown that for movies and music what the market will NOW bear is much lower then it used to be. The execs at the music/movie production companies have decided to ignore this obvious fact.

      --
      @Random_Adam

      Sometimes a sig doesn't have to be funny!!
    3. Re:Product pricing by jedidiah · · Score: 1

      Even for purchased goods this is the case.

      It used to be that a single movie would set you back $90. Now, that same movie would more likely be in the $5 bargain bin at Walmart. If not there then perhaps it would be on the $7.50 rack. Even BluRays are starting to feel the impact of the Walmart effect.

      --
      A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
  12. Or.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    We could make like China and firewall those sites.

  13. china with it's lack worker safety / rules did tha by Joe+The+Dragon · · Score: 0, Troll

    china with it's lack worker safety / rules did that. Apple with is prices should be makeing there phones and pc's in the usa.

  14. All these Spanish names in government by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Insightful

    Seems to make sense as we become more third world like Venezuela.. With its phony bureaucratic generals and their shiny medallions.. What a horrible sight... We are entering into truly dark ages

  15. This result shouldn't be surprising at all... by macraig · · Score: 4, Informative

    ...considering who we have as a Vice President and who his friends are:

    Biden to MPAA: you'll like Obama's pick for copyright czar
    http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2009/04/biden-to-mpaa-youll-like-obamas-copyright-pick.ars

  16. Dear, Victoria Espinel by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    I have a warning to you, we're committed to putting you out of business

    I have a warning to you. We're committed to putting you out of business. Not you in person - your friends in the music and film industries. They are relying on broken, decaying business models, and no matter how much you try, you can't save them.

    1. Re:Dear, Victoria Espinel by countertrolling · · Score: 1

      We're committed to putting you out of business.

      Oh please! Stop it!

      --
      For justice, we must go to Don Corleone
    2. Re:Dear, Victoria Espinel by Zancarius · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I have a warning to you. We're committed to putting you out of business. Not you in person - your friends in the music and film industries. They are relying on broken, decaying business models, and no matter how much you try, you can't save them.

      Even if it were feasible to have some sort of economic impact on the media industry, no matter what you do it'll never have any impact. Remember the "Drudge Tax" that the FTC was mulling over (now bear in mind, this was only a report and not something that is going into effect)? "Oh, but that's just Drudge" you say. "He's a right-wing lunatic."

      Think about this carefully: the "Drudge Tax" was an idea concocted to make news aggregators (hi, Slashdot!) pay a small tax for linking to third party stories. Essentially, it would be in place to prop up an industry that is effectively in the process of dying. It sounds a lot like something Rupert Murdoch was proposing, too, doesn't it?

      Remember, too, that every blank CD-ROM you purchase includes a small fee that goes straight into the coffers of the RIAA to help offset the costs of piracy. Sure, it's only a few cents, but during the peak of CD-ROM sales it was a figure undoubtedly rather high. Worst of all: most people have no idea they are paying what is effectively a tax.

      So, no, I don't think that economically hurting the media industry is going to have any effect. Congress will simply levy taxes against the rest of us to keep their buddies afloat. If we truly professed to be a semi-capitalistic society, we would simply let these companies fail when they can no longer afford to keep their doors open. We're not; instead, we sink countless millions of dollars into failing industries simply because they have lobbyists.

      You and I? Well, we're just taxpayers. We have no lobbyists. Plus, even if you could convince the vast majority of consumers to not purchase popular media (hint: won't happen), it'll never work. It'll instead be blamed on piracy, and you might just wind up paying a tax on every hardware component you purchase to build a computer, because--by golly--that device might just be used to pirate goods. In fact, I think there was a proposal of the sorts in the works.

      I hate to sound so cynical. Instead, I'll end this on a positive note by welcoming you to serfdom.

      --
      He who has no .plan has small finger. ~ Confucius on UNIX
    3. Re:Dear, Victoria Espinel by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why would I buy a blank CD-ROM?

    4. Re:Dear, Victoria Espinel by Zancarius · · Score: 1

      Oops! Good catch. Replace that with CDR, please. If you had only posted that while logged in, I'd give you some karma down the road.

      Thanks! That'll teach me to post when running on a few hours' sleep. At least it wasn't nearly as bad as my other lengthy one with a fleet of horrible grammatical errors and incorrect usages.

      Sigh.

      --
      He who has no .plan has small finger. ~ Confucius on UNIX
    5. Re:Dear, Victoria Espinel by randyleepublic · · Score: 0

      Serfdom? Yeah verily. However the key to the lock can be written down: End the practice of Fractional Reserve Banking. Now you know. Now you may escape your serfdom, if you choose to do so.

      --
      Social Credit would solve everything...
  17. Or producers could just stop making crap... by IBitOBear · · Score: 1

    The other thing is that analogy is more true when the _price_ of the hard good is $20 and the customer-assessed value is $5 for the hard good... how much less the value of the soft good thereafter?

    I just bought, and throughly enjoyed "Alan Wake" for the Xbox 360. I would have paid virtually the same price for a non-disk (download a la Steam etc) version if it would have (a) been available, and (b) been warenteed to be available for a period similar to the existence of the DVD.

    For a title I value, "no physical media" is a feature, not a bug, provided the no-physical-media version is as complete as the physical media.

    I don't buy MP3s, I would buy FLACs.

    That said, I wouldn't really buy most of the current "content" offered for sale in most cases because, given the wide array of choices, most of what is available is crap. Unfortunately for the **AA crap merchants, they are no longer the only crap in town.

    The price point for "crap", wired into the human brain, is "free".

    --
    Innocent people shouldn't be forced to pay for inferior software development.
    --"Code Complete" Microsoft Press
    1. Re:Or producers could just stop making crap... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The goal of copyright is to promote production of crap... because what one person calls crap today, another calls a masterpiece tomorrow. Of course, there's a problem when a limited number of groups control exactly WHAT crap gets produced, as it will likely be homogeneous, resulting in fewer pearls found in the crap in the future.

  18. Copyleft by snadrus · · Score: 1

    Lets say they completely win this one and no one can ever hear/see media without paying full price per person per view for "their" content. Copyleft will become huge! Most importantly, pirated Windows will be eradicated and those unable to buy the full version will be forced into Free software. Further, this will strengthen non-MAFIAA market for music & movies & games.

    All & all, I'm indifferent for good reason.

    --
    Science & open-source build trust from peer review. Learn systems you can trust.
    1. Re:Copyleft by Darkness404 · · Score: 1

      Most importantly, pirated Windows will be eradicated and those unable to buy the full version will be forced into Free software.

      What are you talking about? How many people really "buy" Windows as a stand alone product? My guess is a few people who build their own systems and don't want to rely on cracks and Mac users. For the other 99.99% of Americans, they get Windows bundled with their computer. The thing about computers is that the price is really important, if you pay less than $300 or so for a computer, people are going to think it is crap, even if the savings is by not having OEM Windows installed and having Linux installed. Americans tend to think more money == greater quality, hence why companies like Monster Cable are still in business. There are small niches for sub-$300 computers but for the masses, they seem to think that cheaper hardware is cheaper quality. And the specs don't really matter, get an Atom CPU and a few gigs of RAM, slap a VAIO label on it and charge $500 and people will buy it thinking it is better than a $400 Core i5 box.

      --
      Taxation is legalized theft, no more, no less.
    2. Re:Copyleft by tobiah · · Score: 1

      I agree, the more expensive, difficult to use, and legally constricted something becomes, the more appealing the alternatives. And in this case, there are alternatives that will only become better as they become more popular and mainstream. If they happen to become as good (convenient, reliable, features), that is the day copyright loses control of that market.
      Considering how intent our political leaders on all sides are on pursuing maximum IP controls, it seems likely that this is how it will play out, with Disney Co. ruling a forgotten and irrelevant intellectual empire.

      --
      "The ability to delude yourself may be an important survival tool" - Jane Wagner -
  19. I don't care enough to read it for myself by sangreal66 · · Score: 4, Informative

    but I did read the analysis of the plan on Ars (link) and their conclusions are far more favorable to consumers and less favorable to industry groups than the Slashdot summary suggests.

  20. Think of the Children by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You said,

    If the government was acting in OUR interest, it would force places like Walmart to accept returns of CDs and DVDs.

    The government is acting in your best interests. More specifically it is acting to protect the children against dangerous counterfeit goods. According too our Copyright Czar,

    U.S. Customs officials have seized several shipments of counterfeit toothpaste containing a dangerous amount of diethylene glycol, a chemical used in brake fluid, and that in sufficient doses is believed to cause kidney failure.

    Children unfortunately use toothpaste. The United States of America is a law abiding country, so we need to protect people from criminals who commit illegal acts. It is your patriotic duty to uphold the laws of the United States of America. If you don't like the laws, or think they are too strict, then you can always vote in a Republican President during the next election.

    For every one of those CD's that you sample without paying for, there are millions of dollars of money and spin off jobs that the RIAA, its lawyers, accountants, lobbyists, bookkeepers, musicians, officer cleaners, etc and so on lose, just because you wouldn't pay for a CD that you didn't like but decided to listen to anyways. All of this money could be used to pay taxes to pay for more robust Internet filters at schools and in libraries. Think about it. Your behavior is directly hurting children!

    1. Re:Think of the Children by chilvence · · Score: 1

      For every one of those CD's that you sample without paying for, there are millions of dollars of money and spin off jobs that the RIAA, its lawyers, accountants, lobbyists, bookkeepers, musicians, officer cleaners, etc and so on lose

      Well apart from the musicians and maybe the cleaners (because at least they are doing an honest job), I wouldn't want a penny of my cash going to any of those people for any reason whatsoever, so that actually works well for me. Why should I be indirectly funding make-work busybodies that only want to accuse me of being criminal scum?

      ps thanks for the most ridiculous round-about argument against anything I have ever heard, I'm sure the pennies you would have thrown at the tax man would make all the difference to the world, compared to you actually doing something pro-active and meaningful in your life.

  21. Sigh... by thestudio_bob · · Score: 3, Insightful

    So this is how liberty dies... with thunderous applause.

    --
    The real Sig captains the Northwestern. This one captains /.
    1. Re:Sigh... by russotto · · Score: 3, Insightful

      So this is how liberty dies... with thunderous applause.

      Lucas Entertainment will be sending you a cease and desist notice momentarily....

      (err, wait, make that Lucasfilm Limited... best not to get those mixed up)

    2. Re:Sigh... by francisco.colaco · · Score: 1

      And Cicero will collect Royalties from Lucasfilm. The phrase is a paraphrasis of Cicero's words, said when Julius Caesar was made emperor.

      Do you actually think the guys in Hollywood ever came up with something original since the retirement of the Marx Brothers?

      Francisco Colaço

  22. Thanks for posting that by Adrian+Lopez · · Score: 1

    I didn't feel like reading the government's plan, partly out of laziness and partly due to not wanting to get even more pissed off about the current state of US Copyright law. I expected the worst from reading the /. summary, but Techdirt's writeup has appeased those fears -- at least for now.

    --
    "In prison you just have to shut your eyes and take it. Here you have to shut your eyes and give it."
  23. Wellcome to the stupid!. by Tei · · Score: 1

    We laught wen corporations waste butloads of money on stupid DRM schemes that never work and are cracked in hours, so only punish the people that pay for the gods.

    Imagine this again, but the money wasted is from your taxes, and the people that is punished is everyone that lives inside USA.

    Fun!.

    NOT!. People. Stop this, please. ACT NOW!.

    --

    -Woof woof woof!

  24. Enforcement is a detail - we care about the Rules by starseeker · · Score: 4, Interesting

    While I think it is unfortunate that they have legitimized the phrase "intellectual property", it's actually a bit of a relief to see them focusing on piracy and counterfeit goods. I never had any expectation that any major official entity subject to political forces would act to weaken copyright or other "intellectual property" rules, since most commercial content creators want the maximum possible revenue from their work (regardless of broader social consequences to society and creativity). The general mindset is that creativity is fueled by the profit motive, so the more profit the more progress we will see in the arts and sciences. And while this is demonstrably NOT universally true (see open source, as just one example of many) it IS true that vast revenues are generated by copyright laws supporting commercial endeavors and the resources contributed by people so benefiting are of much more use to political campaigns than those who are creating for motivations OTHER than money.

    Given that reality, Creative Commons and Open Source style licensing are probably the only practical means of preserving any of the benefits of what used to be the public domain going forward. With the courts suggesting that Congress can yank things OUT of the public domain even after they are placed there, it becomes clear that the best way forward is the "opt-in" community approach. This means, of course, that the body of work available for creative purposes outside of a commercial framework will be drastically reduced. However, the current social and legislative trends suggest that it's all we can hope for. Given that reality, those who prefer this environment can work to improve the tools and content so released in order to build up our own "subculture" over time. If it appeals to enough people, it may eventually function more or less independently of the commercial world without needing commercial content to fall into the public domain (indeed, in some sense this has been the practical situation for virtually the entire lifespan of everyone on this site anyway - how many of us remember any work released commercially in our lifetime that is now public domain?)

    However, even this proposed subculture can exist only if it is not thwarted by legislative efforts. So long as works CAN be used without commercial payment, free and open source culture can survive as long as there are people willing to make it survive. My greatest concern is that Big Content will try to push for laws making ANY content available without charge subject to "unfair competition" rules - i.e. make it impossible for anyone to do ANYTHING with ANY content, regardless of license, without some form of concrete financial or goods based payment changing hands between creator and user. This might be phrased as the "Fair Compensation Act" intended to "ensure that content creators are compensated for their efforts" and "able to make a living". Free ANYTHING may be branded as "socialist", "communist", "anti-business" and "un-American". I have heard this feeling expressed - that nothing should be free; every product of any kind should be bought and sold in the open market to ensure fair compensation from users to creators. The existence of ANY free content is unfair competition and a dis-incentive to today's creative minds. Open source software prompts this opinion occasionally - for example, the "market destroying effects" of things like free compilers has ruined the livelihoods of people who might have made commercial tools. If that attitude ever makes it into the letter of the law, we are in Big Trouble - THAT is what we really need to watch for.

    --
    "I object to doing things that computers can do." -- Olin Shivers, lispers.org
  25. We need a rebellion by Charliemopps · · Score: 3, Insightful

    "God forbid we should ever be twenty years without such a rebellion..." --Thomas Jefferson to William S. Smith, 1787. ME 6:372

    1. Re:We need a rebellion by jammer170 · · Score: 1

      "God forbid we should ever be twenty years without such a rebellion..." --Thomas Jefferson to William S. Smith, 1787. ME 6:372

      I wish I had mod points for this. Instead, I'll just say when I first heard this I thought that twenty years might be a bit too often. Now I wonder if twenty years is too long.

      --
      Remember, you can't look dignified when your having fun! Don't take life too seriously, you'll never get out of it alive
    2. Re:We need a rebellion by phantomfive · · Score: 1

      I have a lot of respect for Thomas Jefferson, but bringing it up here is just idiotic. Do you really want to sacrifice your life for the sake of copyright infringement? Seriously, do you understand what you are suggesting? In Jefferson's day, not everyone was allowed to vote. In many states voting rights were limited to land-owners, so he saw violent rebellions as a way for the poor uneducated to have their voice heard. Nowadays we have a better method to let their voice be heard, and that is by extending the vote to everyone. Now no one has to die over such silly things.

      If you have a big enough majority to win a violent rebellion, you have a big enough majority to win just by voting.

      --
      Qxe4
    3. Re:We need a rebellion by BiggerIsBetter · · Score: 1

      In Jefferson's day, not everyone was allowed to vote. In many states voting rights were limited to land-owners, so he saw violent rebellions as a way for the poor uneducated to have their voice heard. Nowadays we have a better method to let their voice be heard, and that is by extending the vote to everyone. Now no one has to die over such silly things.

      That's actually a pretty good analogy. It's not really about copyright, it's about the government not listening to the will of the people.

      Voting only works every few years, and politicians often reneg on their pre-election promises. We regularly have polls demonstrating large majority disapproval for legislation that gets passed anyway. The only way to get your voice heard in government is "lobbying" and the only entities with enough cash to do that are large business, which are often propped up through government subsidies, contracts, and legislation.

      --
      Forget thrust, drag, lift and weight. Airplanes fly because of money.
    4. Re:We need a rebellion by Charliemopps · · Score: 1

      "If you have a big enough majority to win a violent rebellion, you have a big enough majority to win just by voting." Not in a two party system you don't. Also, the revolutionary war was fought and won by a minority.

    5. Re:We need a rebellion by phantomfive · · Score: 1

      the revolutionary war was fought and won by a minority.

      Do you have a citation on this, or are you just making it up? Because as far as I know, there was pretty clear support for the American side of things.

      Also, if enough people cared, there would be third parties, as there have been at various times in the country's past.

      --
      Qxe4
  26. Fooled? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    Did anyone expect anything different from EITHER political party? Was there a major candidate (or for that matter ANY candidate) advocating weaker enforcement and weaker copyright laws?

    Also, given the world situation and US situation at the current time, the cold truth is that on a grand economic scale it probably IS better financially for the US if strict copyright and IP rules are globally enforced. Lord knows there is precious little other than that that could induce anyone to send money the US's way - we're hell bent on getting actual goods production overseas.

  27. So THAT's what they meant by "hope and change" by roc97007 · · Score: 1

    Ok, prepare for some really draconic cracking-down, which will inevitably include some false positives that will ruin some people's lives, and as hollywood continues to lose money, (because their business plan is no longer valid) things will become more and more draconian, until the only revenue stream that's keeping the traditional studios alive will be from litigation or government relief. I can hardly wait.

    --
    Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
    1. Re:So THAT's what they meant by "hope and change" by Andorin · · Score: 1

      Hollywood's profits have actually been increasing year after year. They hit $10 billion in profits (or was that revenue?) in 2009 and I doubt that trend is going to slow down this year, what with Avatar and such hit movies. Oh, and 3D.

      Just sayin'.

      --
      That Anonymous Coward guy is pretty annoying. Can we have the government censor him or something?
  28. Good point. by FatSean · · Score: 1

    Our major exports seem to be food and IP.

    --
    Blar.
  29. Am I missing something? by Andorin · · Score: 4, Informative
    I'm not going to read the full report myself, but earlier today I did read Ars Technica's piece on this subject. The impression I get from that article is that the federal government is going to largely stay out of the battle between rights holders and file sharers:

    The Administration believes that it is essential for the private sector, including content owners, Internet service providers, advertising brokers, payment processors and search engines, to work collaboratively, consistent with the antitrust laws, to address activity that has a negative economic impact and undermines US businesses, and to seek practical and efficient solutions to address infringement.

    According to Ars, reaction to the report has been positive, even from Public Knowledge. You know, one a-them digital hippy organizations that campaign for peoples' rights. There won't be any gov't-sanctioned three-strikes or Internet filtering, and they're going to get the Department of Commerce to put together an ultimate report on financial harm from piracy (good luck with that, but A for effort since they mentioned that the media industries are basically making shit up). It really doesn't sound all that bad, and it could have been much worse.

    And then we have this Slashdot summary, making it out to be all doom and gloom, as though the feds weren't even going to try to hide that they're in bed with Big Content. As the subject line says, am I missing something here?

    --
    That Anonymous Coward guy is pretty annoying. Can we have the government censor him or something?
  30. Your tax dollars at work! by mykos · · Score: 1

    Sure, let's keep putting our tax dollars to work saving the salaries of movie executives. It's not like we're backsliding in education, science programs, and health services right?

  31. Buy the textbook or fail the class. by earls · · Score: 2, Interesting

    "Were you forced into buying the product?" Yes, in order to succeed in the class, I was required to buy the selected textbook. And no, not last year's used edition, the brand new edition with at a premium. That's as closed to "forced to buy the product" as I can think of short of a gun barrel in my mouth.

    1. Re:Buy the textbook or fail the class. by Naturalis+Philosopho · · Score: 1

      "Were you forced into buying the product?" Yes, in order to succeed in the class, I was required to buy the selected textbook. And no, not last year's used edition, the brand new edition with at a premium. That's as closed to "forced to buy the product" as I can think of short of a gun barrel in my mouth.

      Dude, exaggerate much? How about find 4-5 other people in the class, split the cost, and share? Studying together has even been shown to improve retention. Oh No's! You mean that you were forced to also pay the college more than you can afford in order to get a degree that taught you nothing that you couldn't have learned from iTunes U and a good public library? Did they also promise you a six figure job when you graduate? Good luck, man. If your problem solving skils are at a level where you can't figure out how to afford textbooks, I can't wait until you have to shell out for parking permits at McCorporation and try to, ahem, negotiate with HR for free parking.

    2. Re:Buy the textbook or fail the class. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > How about find 4-5 other people in the class, split the cost, and share?

      Please share your magic algorithm for, at the beginning of the semester, selecting which 4-5 college students out of a class of 100 are caring, reasonable, and responsible people who won't screw over the other 3-4?

      > Dude, exaggerate much?

      This is the net. We all do it here.

      > ... that you couldn't have learned from iTunes U and a good public library ...

      See, you do it, too!

    3. Re:Buy the textbook or fail the class. by Mongoose+Disciple · · Score: 1

      How about find 4-5 other people in the class, split the cost, and share?

      GPP post says he's forced to buy the product.

      Your solution is still buying the product.

    4. Re:Buy the textbook or fail the class. by Naturalis+Philosopho · · Score: 1

      GGP says that he's forced to buy the book to pass a class. Think about that for a moment. We all make choices, one of his is to go to a college which requires new texts every year. When texts were really expensive, I learned to share with friends who were also taking a class. First semester, I was hosed too. But the point is that I learned; I learned alternatives to paying full price, I learned how to share, I learned how to live in a system. That last is mostly what college is about, right? Making us "sheeple"? (see what I did there?). It's also where people learn that choosing to be part of the system means playing by (most) of the systems rules, find out which ones you can bend, break or work around without unacceptable consequence, and learning to move on. No one came close to holding a gun to his head. He believes that if he doesn't pass his class he doesn't get his cushy job after graduating. Newsflash, he's being scammed into thinking college is important enough that the threat of failing a class is the next worst thing to having a gun to his head. It isn't. If neither of you get that, then I'm really sorry for you both. My point wasn't that he doesn't have to buy the book, it was that he's a winging little shit who has no sense of perspective and horrible problem solving skills.

  32. Those who run the greatest PONZI scheme by Shivetya · · Score: 1

    are not the ones we can count on to go after their own lackeys. Why should they accord us any respect when we are dumb enough to keep putting them back in power? There are far too many useful idiots at hand.
       

    --
    * Winners compare their achievements to their goals, losers compare theirs to that of others.
  33. The Aimless Initiative by WarpedCore · · Score: 1

    "The examples are almost endless: counterfeit car parts, illegal software, pirated video games, knockoff consumer goods, dangerous counterfeit medicines, and many other types of products - including very sophisticated technology," according to the website's rather bleek outline of what they intend to do. In a forest beware of wolfs, bears, kittens, puppies, mountain cats, and wild dogs. Seriously, I understand some of what they're going to do.. and I'm pretty sure a lot less enforcement and emphasis will go towards people that pirate Wii games for personal entertainment. The whole thing strikes me as something they'd go after distribution rather than the buyers or takers of the goods. "Pirated video games" strike me as the dumbest part of that items in a series. This might be more of a "Fuck you, Wal-Mart, for trying to import cheaper drugs in a pilot program for your stores" or a "Don't buy cheaper Canadian drugs"... American creativity is nothing more than taking your shit and putting a stylized swoosh logo on it... hell, it's not even our dung anymore, we have to outsource it. This is nothing more than a cheap, low balled, corporate funded attempt to surpress the issue of rising costs for a lot of these goods that are now being counterfeited cheaply rather than actually strike at the greed and the issue of why drugs are counterfeited in the first place... (low level greed, despiration to have better heath, better living).. Obama administration turned Change into an aimless, money spending waste of time.

  34. Enforcement isn't all bad... "sheesh"... by steppin_razor_LA · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Take this story in the context of the Slashdot story earlier today. There are an increasing number of web sites operating outside of the US that are illegally selling products that they don't own. If there is one thing that we should ALL be able to agree upon is that organized crime for profit is not defensible.

    The companies selling downloads of movies/etc are directly stealing money from US companies as well as the artistic community that creates them. Say what you will about the MPAA/etc, but at least they are contributing something (i.e. they are actually creating and distributing the movies). Companies that just steal their content and resell it to people are just plain stealing.

    Going after organized villainy is a GOOD use of taxpayer resources. We should be supporting these sorts of efforts and contrasting them with the the music industry's war on consumers.

    --
    Evolution: love it or leave it
  35. Resource Allocation by Zancarius · · Score: 1

    It's easy to see the allure of the Utopian view Star Trek gave each of us once with the introduction of replicators and the notion of "bulk matter" being converted into consumable goods. I certainly understand where you're coming from, and I agree to an extent.

    There's just one problem: It will never work. No, really, it won't.

    Think about it: Do you honestly think that thousands of companies across a multitude of industries are going to allow the average consumer to simply download a blueprint for something and "print" it out on their 3D printer (or nanoscale as you called it)? Of course not. Assuming such devices were to become affordable, it would represent a risk to the very core of their business. I can see this both ways; on the one hand, if I were producing a good, I'd want to be in control of the end product. Think about the control Apple has over its devices (and how vehement Slashdotters tend to defend Apple's rather closed nature with regards to hardware and the like)! I can't really blame them, because once the production line is out of your control you no longer have control over the end product's quality. Even assuming a perfect replication of a particular product, there'd still be issues with the operator (i.e. "end user") following the instructions carefully, putting together the device carefully, and so on. Hell, I remember doing technical support once upon a time and let me tell you--if something can go wrong, it will. Does the device have to be plugged in? Uh oh! There's another call to the service center claiming it's "not working."

    On the other hand, our economic system relies exclusively on the economics of scarcity. What would happen should we be able to replicate common goods on the cheap--or, fancifully speaking--replicate just about anything from "bulk matter?" Chaos.

    The problem is that we would need to undergo a significant change in the way we think and feel about resources and resource allocation, and I'm not so sure that would be successful.

    Assuming some sort of 3D printing devices could be used to build just about anything (I'm aware William Shatner used one to recreate a part for a restoration project of an old vehicle which was then used by a machinist as a prototype to create the actual part to install), I suspect that it would a) be so expensive as to be unaffordable by the average user, b) "subscription" fees might be charged for users to upload their designs to a company which would then produce or print the part, and/or c) require payment of licensing fees to the companies that created the original product you're attempting to duplicate. Since such technology is unlikely to be made inexpensively, it takes little imagination to see where this leads.

    I appreciate your optimism, though.

    --
    He who has no .plan has small finger. ~ Confucius on UNIX
    1. Re:Resource Allocation by Thing+1 · · Score: 1

      Assuming such devices were to become affordable, it would represent a risk to the very core of their business.

      Yeah, yeah, and humans with their brains represent a risk to the very core of larger animals' dominance.

      Doesn't matter how much you boldface your "dire warnings", they're just that: warnings, not reality.

      The reality is, people will develop nano-scale printers wherever and whenever they can, because there are benefits to the individuals creating it (which includes groups, which includes corporations -- one corporation can achieve leverage over another by judicious use of technology, which nano-scale printers most certainly are).

      I feel sorry for people who look at Star Trek as silly fiction. Sure, some of it will not be the way that it was represented (why send humans into space, when we can send teledildonic robots?), but the core goal is what all life has been striving at ever since the smallest life forms started separating "good atoms" from "bad atoms" -- complete molecular control.

      Saying that a locally government-granted personhood will be able to prevent all life on the planet from achieving this goal seems far-fetched. Of course you could be right; the corporations could invent SkyNet, or perhaps lob enough spare nuclear weapons around that life is done, for now, and won't achieve this. But SkyNet will need it -- so the answer must needs be destruction if we want to follow your path.

      What would happen should we be able to replicate common goods on the cheap--or, fancifully speaking--replicate just about anything from "bulk matter?" Chaos.

      We are already there, for the class of "digital goods". We're witnessing the turmoil right now. I remember back around Napster days, the companies that sold sewing patterns made press announcements that "The Internet Is Killing Our Business!" The mulch manufacturers will be complaining in short order.

      "subscription" fees might be charged for users to upload their designs to a company [...]

      What would be the point of paying someone a "subscription fee" when they wouldn't really need to spend the money on anything? They'd have printers too, y'know. (Am I wasting my time arguing with a troll?)

      --
      I feel fantastic, and I'm still alive.
    2. Re:Resource Allocation by turtleAJ · · Score: 1

      Thanks for replying... good post. =)
      Here's my thoughts:

      There's just one problem: It will never work. No, really, it won't.

      Think about it: Do you honestly think that thousands of companies across a multitude of industries are going to allow the average consumer to simply download a blueprint for something and "print" it out on their 3D printer (or nanoscale as you called it)? Of course not. Assuming such devices were to become affordable, it would represent a risk to the very core of their business.

      Do I think the Government Inc.orporations will allow the average consumer to print stuff on 3D?
      HELL NO!
      I'm with you on that.

      And there will be many more of these MAFIAA suing downloaders, uploaders, grandmothers and wombats.
      I know that.

      Yet the way I see the future, it's a evolution of our technology, that will happen weather [?] they like it or not.
      Let's take it to extremes.
      If they make 3D nanoscale printers illegal, with one obtained on the "pirate network" side of things, is enough to print all other copies.
      If they keep locking down the internet, via ISPs and regulations: we can combat with better anonymity, a parallel "quasi" internet running p2p, sneaker nets (100 Terabytes of transfer? Why not? Just give the guy a hard disk/solidState drive).

      Again, I'm with you.
      Will they "fight" it, hell yes.
      Will we win? It's just no other way.

      And I know a "nanoscale printer" is not something that will get whipped up in 3 days of AutoCAD design (pirated).
      Yet that's where we're going!

      On the other hand, our economic system relies exclusively on the economics of scarcity. What would happen should we be able to replicate common goods on the cheap--or, fancifully speaking--replicate just about anything from "bulk matter?" Chaos.

      Chaos.
      Um... yeap!
      That's pretty much the way I've seen it.

      And after that chaos?
      250 years in the future?
      Bliss. (if we survive!)
      Some place with rockets going to the Moon and Mars.
      Medicine being super advanced.
      Materials/goods being completely superior.

      =)

    3. Re:Resource Allocation by Burz · · Score: 1

      You could say the same about the Internet, though.

      What happens, sometimes, is that the US military decides they have to have this power and they set the "defense" contractors in motion to scale such a concept up to where its can be (inadvertently) cost reduced and mass marketed.

    4. Re:Resource Allocation by Zancarius · · Score: 1

      Yeah, yeah, and humans with their brains represent a risk to the very core of larger animals' dominance.

      Doesn't matter how much you boldface your "dire warnings", they're just that: warnings, not reality.

      Okay...

      The reality is, people will develop nano-scale printers wherever and whenever they can, because there are benefits to the individuals creating it (which includes groups, which includes corporations -- one corporation can achieve leverage over another by judicious use of technology, which nano-scale printers most certainly are).

      And how, exactly, are individuals going to afford the capability for manipulating stuff on the atomic level if they're not part of a research institution or corporation? Money doesn't grow on trees.

      I feel sorry for people who look at Star Trek as silly fiction.

      Star Trek is largely based around a universe that holds a much more utopian view of life than I think it otherwise should. I won't go into my rationale for why I feel this is the case, though, since I suspect that my karma might take a hit from beating on one of Slashdot's more favorite fictional universes.

      We are already there, for the class of "digital goods". We're witnessing the turmoil right now. I remember back around Napster days, the companies that sold sewing patterns made press announcements that "The Internet Is Killing Our Business!" The mulch manufacturers will be complaining in short order.

      You do raise a good point here, since effectively being able to copy physical goods as readily as an MP3 creates an identical crisis to the business world. The difference though is a matter of 1) creating exact physical copies of an object is not exactly possible on an atomic scale and will require significant advancements to make it affordable 2) it wouldn't be affordable even if it were possible and 3) it would consume a finite number of other resources (e.g. bulk matter) to produce. Copying a digital good such as an MP3 requires virtually no cost except for a small fraction of bandwidth and storage, it's an identical copy of the good, and it requires virtually no upfront investment even if you factor in storage.

      What would be the point of paying someone a "subscription fee" when they wouldn't really need to spend the money on anything? They'd have printers too, y'know. (Am I wasting my time arguing with a troll?)

      If I were trolling, you probably wouldn't know it.

      On the other hand, that you feel compelled to ask this question indicates that I didn't really connect the dots as well as I should have in my post, and thus it may have been too difficult to follow. If so, I apologize. As another poster pointed out, the only "real" thing the US has of economic advantage is its intellectual property. Since IP laws won't go away overnight, even if you did have something that could print virtually any object, I can easily see that various manufacturers would charge a subscription fee to access the basic digital blueprints for fabricating items of interest. So, even if the manufacturers have their own printers (e.g. "we print to higher tolerances than you do!"), if you purchased a consumer grade one, it's not too much of a stretch to imagine that companies would offer their products to you for a small fee to print yourself.

      It's a poor analogy, but it's sort of like printing out your own postage. You still pay for the postage, but you have the convenience of printing it at home.

      --
      He who has no .plan has small finger. ~ Confucius on UNIX
    5. Re:Resource Allocation by Zancarius · · Score: 1

      Do I think the Government Inc.orporations will allow the average consumer to print stuff on 3D?
      HELL NO!
      I'm with you on that.

      Definitely. There's no way they'd want the average consumer to express the freedoms that we'd very much like to have.

      And please, don't take my original post as a suggestion that I thought your ideas were foolish. They're fantastic. I just simply have little faith in our society as it currently exists to do anything that would grant us consumers more freedom. Freedom is, after all, a dangerous thing.

      If they make 3D nanoscale printers illegal, with one obtained on the "pirate network" side of things, is enough to print all other copies.
      If they keep locking down the internet, via ISPs and regulations: we can combat with better anonymity, a parallel "quasi" internet running p2p, sneaker nets (100 Terabytes of transfer? Why not? Just give the guy a hard disk/solidState drive).

      That would actually be a rather humorous plot to a cyberpunk thriller of sorts. 3D printing (and the items printed from them) become illegal contraband, but there'd be the darker corners of the 'net that those with the 3D printers could obtain blueprints from. It's very plausible, and it's not much of a stretch to see something like that happening. Sadly. :(

      You're right, though. There's a lot more at stake than simply a handful of MP3s, and that's why I do agree with the fundamental point of your original post. Though, it's a shame that there are forces in the world that see this sort of freedom as a hazard.

      Not that that's ever stopped anyone before. Freedom of the serfs is a dangerous thing!

      --
      He who has no .plan has small finger. ~ Confucius on UNIX
    6. Re:Resource Allocation by Zancarius · · Score: 1

      Good point.

      --
      He who has no .plan has small finger. ~ Confucius on UNIX
  36. Where are the teabaggers? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Where are the teabaggers? They spent most of the last year claiming that Obama creating "czars" was proof that he was a card-carrying Communist.

    Oh wait, the RNC and friends aren't *paying* for teabagger protests on this issue - that's cleared it up.

  37. Hey Obama girls! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Hollywood says: "SUCKERS!"

  38. Not more manufacturing crap by Sycraft-fu · · Score: 5, Insightful

    That is not just wrong, it is the opposite of right. Not only does the US still manufacture goods, it has the #1 output of manufactured goods in the entire world. Yes, that's right, more than China even. That is on track to change, the way things are going China will be #1 by around 2020, but because of their growth, but because the US isn't making things. The US is manufacturing more than it has at nearly any other time (the recession has caused a drop, but pre-recession was highest levels ever).

    You are just choosing to see things selectively. If you don't know what it is that the US makes, well that is your failing, not a failing of the US economy. There are some mundane things, like steel girders or sewer lids. There are some high tech things like computer processors (most of Intel's fabs are in the US) and DSPs. There are some industrial things like locomotives and heavy construction machinery. There are some specialized things like MRI scanners and nuclear reactors. There are some unexpected things like Toyota cars (Toyota has many US factories).

    Doesn't matter, all over the board the US produces a whole lot of stuff. So please, educate yourself before spouting off. This "The US makes nothing but imaginary goods!" thing is tired and incorrect.

    1. Re:Not more manufacturing crap by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      Almost everything that is sitting here at my desk at work has the words "MADE IN CHINA" written on it. Where are all those products "MADE IN THE USA" that are supposedly being manufactured kept because, if given the choice, I'd surely buy them over this junk.

    2. Re:Not more manufacturing crap by Lincolnshire+Poacher · · Score: 1

      > Not only does the US still manufacture goods, it has the
      > #1 output of manufactured goods in the entire world.

      Can I ask to see the figures on which you base this claim?

      By most trading measurements Germany is considered the leading exporter of manuf

      The WTO, who know a bit about international trade, state clearly:

      "Germany was the world's largest merchandise exporter in 2008"

      whereas

      "The United States was the largest exporter and importer of commercial services

      Germany accounts for 9% of international exports and the US 10%, but only 72% of
      or Germany.

    3. Re:Not more manufacturing crap by Lincolnshire+Poacher · · Score: 1

      Err sorry 'bout that, Slashdot seems to have chewed my posting.

      Summary:

      Germany accounts for 9% of World exports, US 10%.
      81% of German exports are merchandise, 72% of US exports are merchandise.

      Germany wins.

    4. Re:Not more manufacturing crap by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You make some valid points, but I will say this "America is number one! even when it is not!"

      America does a lot of things right and even more wrong, but that is the nature of a country such as America.

      Frankly I am disgusted by nearly three quarters of all interactions with America I have daily. Broken laws, Broken people, broken dreams, and broken deals.

      America is only a former shell of itself.

      Don't misunderstand me, I think America has a chance to make a comeback, In fact my company depends on this. I really believe that in no other country on Earth can the people really change things the way one million angry Americans can in their own country.

      I think it is a thing of beauty to have such power as a common person. I do not have that here. I really wish Americans would take control of their country (preferably by peaceful means), it would be good for my business and for American freedom if they would take back their rights.

      Obviously I am biased. Who isn't?, but I see nothing wrong with being biased in favour of citizens' personal freedom.

      Good luck America, I love your people and your country, even if I hate your government (for the last thirty years).

    5. Re:Not more manufacturing crap by Sycraft-fu · · Score: 1

      I never said exporter, I said producer. The question is who makes the most manufactured goods in the world? The answer is, currently, the US. Doesn't mean they export all of them, just means they make them. The US consumes a good deal of what it makes internally, unsurprisingly given the mass of the country. Also a non-trivial amount of US manufacturing isn't things like consumer merchandise, it is commercial equipment and so on. As an example: If you want a commercial airplane Airbus and Boeing are pretty much the only games in town, and one of them is made in the US.

    6. Re:Not more manufacturing crap by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You're right, just noting that wrong is the... eh.. "opposite of right"

    7. Re:Not more manufacturing crap by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This is of course a very good point, and deserves a citation so it's not an unsupported assertion: http://www.bls.gov/fls/chartbook/section3.htm#chart3.6 However, that represents the current situation, not the future situation. The concern is the trends, which are pretty uniformly negative as far as the US is concerned. Broad changes on this scale take decades, but the trend seems to be to send jobs OUT of the US, rather than bringing them in.

      Remember how economic investment potential is measured by investors - growth potential is king. It's a bit of a problem for large, mature companies since they have to find ways to keep growing to keep stockholders and investors happy - if the US as a whole is showing a downward trend that is FAR more alarming than the current relative numbers. Economic investment looks ahead at what is coming, not at the here-and-now - the future doesn't look so good when the US isn't competitive.

      Also, I would probe a little further into the derivation of those numbers and what they mean - does a "percentage of world manufacturing output" come from some sort of $$ based calculation using a uniform price for all goods everywhere? Does that number reflect not just gross output but actual profits? Is it "n widgets produced, where a plane = 1000*n and a car = 1*n?" I wonder how they do that math - it's actually quite a complex question.

  39. On the bright side... by patchmonster · · Score: 1

    If all piracy was done away with, think of all the open source attention. No youth will shell out $200 for Photoshop.

  40. Is it really a surprise that by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    the candidate who used the Pravda rhetoric would go after the Pravda standards of censorship and control, disguised as copyright or whatever else is supposed to benefit "public good" (without asking the actual public)?

    For everyone of us from the former Eastern Block, his speeches sounded all too familiar -- "everything for everyone, at the expense of the greedy capitalists". What comes after -- aggregation of power and then moving against free public information exchange -- is also familiar. Been there, done that, got the fscking mandatory Pravda subscription. To know what it feels like, go read the NYT take on the TFA, or listen to MSNBS.

  41. I always thought... by hawkingradiation · · Score: 2, Insightful

    ....that the reason America made (past tense) great movies was because of it's culture. America had true heros and the free and competitive nature of American life, both at home and abroad, was the basis for it's revenue and productive success. There was such a thing as an American hero, and Americans enriched the lives of those outside of its boundaries. America helped rebuild Europe and Japan, and was a key figure in preventing the spread of communism, or otherwise promoting the free market system. Spy stories, WWII stories, stories about the future and technology are some of my favourites. However, nowadays, America produces what besides the film industry/ recording industry? Sure they design iPods, but if there is nobody getting wages paid for them in America, all of the dollars are eventually going overseas. So now, what does it do? America needs vast reform, both in energy (re: wasted resources allocation to fund big multinationals), and in industry too. So instead of producing a movie about the positive and interesting work America has done, The Hurt Locker (which maybe accurately represents modern American life) won some awards which was good for the American side of things, while completely leaving out how others felt (Avatar), which showed an alternative side as to how minerals (re oil) were being used in a conflict against indigenous people's.) Perhaps the US should stick to writing films about well...producing movies and the copyright struggle in America. It would be true, and that is what I feel lacks from most of the movies today: they are based on odd tales. I am sure if they presented a balanced view, in a movie about America (which was successful in the past), even I might start going to the theatres again, and people might start to begin to see what is wrong with America today.

    --
    Society use your Sciences
  42. Oh noes! by Epsilon+Moonshade · · Score: 1

    Golly gee! This law being passed is going to screw EVERYTHING up for me!

    Or not. I'll keep doing what I've done in the past - if I want to hear something, I'll listen to it on the radio or do without. Most of the movies coming out these days? I wouldn't spend money on those either.

    Let's hope that they keep spending their money on bribes^H^H^H^H^H^Hcampaign contributions, and eventually go broke. Fuck 'em.

  43. Re:White noise? by Announcer · · Score: 1

    Just tune an analog FM radio to an empty frequency, and turn up the volume. There's free white noise. Adjust volume & tone to suit.

    --
    Willie...
  44. Don't be too Optimistic by Zancarius · · Score: 5, Informative

    I'm of the mindset that the media industry at large is hurting not so much because of piracy but because of quality and the inability to adapt. Me? I used to by CDs whenever I'd hunt for music. Now, I just purchase it from Amazon if it's available; if not, I do without. (Before anyone whines about lossy codecs, I might remind you that this is simply an anecdote; I honestly can't tell the difference between FLAC and MP3 for the majority of what I own except in very rare circumstances. If you can tell the difference, by all means purchase something you can encode in the format you desire.) I don't watch a lot of movies anymore, and the most recent thing I watched was an old series I enjoyed that Hulu happened to have.

    So, it's great that they have the average consumer in mind.

    But, I feel Ars missed something of value in this statement by Espinel (a copyright Czar? seriously? we have an entire legal framework put in place to enforce copyright, and we now need a copyright Czar to watch over all of this?):

    "The Administration believes that it is essential for the private sector, including content owners, Internet service providers, advertising brokers, payment processors and search engines, to work collaboratively, consistent with the antitrust laws, to address activity that has a negative economic impact and undermines US businesses, and to seek practical and efficient solutions to address infringement." (Emphasis added.)

    (Original emphasis is not mine.)

    Read that quote. Got it?

    Now, I want you to read it again--carefully this time. Specifically, minus the distracting bits:

    "The Administration believes that it is essential for ... Internet service providers, ... and search engines, to work collaboratively, consistent with the antitrust laws, to address activity that has a negative economic impact and undermines US businesses, and to seek practical and efficient solutions to address infringement."

    Emphasis mine.

    I don't know about you, but that sounds a lot like a subtle (or maybe not to subtle) hint to industry that it needs to start cracking down on illicit behavior. Specifically, I'm talking about deep packet inspection. More importantly, her words imply to me that even Google would need to filter its results for potentially illegal download links.

    But wait, there's more!

    The plan says the government will soon begin trading samples of "circumvention devices" with the content industry "to assist in determining whether such devices violate an import prohibition." Obviously MPAA and RIAA don't like modchips that allow users to end run DRM restrictions. Groups like Public Knowledge, on the other hand, point out that educators can't exercise fair use rights if they can't access technologies to help them extract video content from DVDs.

    Judging by the reaction of Public Knowledge, I suspect that all such "circumvention devices" are indeed software applications that might help pull content off otherwise DRM-protected discs. Really, this statement better reads as "We're going to let the RIAA and MPAA look at all of this stuff and tell us whether it violates the DMCA. If it does, then we'll punish the authors."

    To me, though, the most comical bit was this:

    The report also promises more vigilance against "foreign-based and foreign-controlled websites and web services" that "infringe American intellectual property rights," but acknowledges that there isn't much the US can do about them.

    Oh really? We have all these fanciful ideas and if any one of those evil pirates overseas is in an area where we can't enforce our IP laws, we're screwed!

    So tell me, aside from the little blurb about online pharmacies (which I do think ought to be shut down, but that's another rant entirely mainly because I suspect they pay for a vast majority of spam delivery), what part of this sounds as if it's not simply a thinly veiled attempt at selling ISP-level packet filtering?

    --
    He who has no .plan has small finger. ~ Confucius on UNIX
    1. Re:Don't be too Optimistic by Thing+1 · · Score: 1

      OT, but Slashdot, c'mon: "Read the rest of this comment..." -- the only rest was the dude's signature! Yeah, sure, every hard limit has an exceptional one-byte-over-the-limit post, but I've seen so many comments lately where the "rest of this comment" is just the signature, I'm wondering if there's a fix that can be easily made. Like, "post must be at least 5% more than the limit in order for the limit to apply" or something similar.

      --
      I feel fantastic, and I'm still alive.
    2. Re:Don't be too Optimistic by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Online pharmacies only provide what the people want.

      It is the equivalent of this:

      Doktors...
      Oh no no no no no, you can't have that!!
      You wouldn't be able to handle it.
      at least
      not
      without
      A PRESCRIPTION!!!!
      That'll be 75 dollars
      thank you

      the Lawyer/DA/Judge rotation...
      Pick a side, any side.
      you gotta pay, if you wanna slide
      Now you see 'em, now you don't,
      maybe they did, and maybe they won't
        set 'em up, knock 'em down,
      if they ain't six feet in the ground,
        we'll cut 'em loose, or take 'em down,
      it's a cash flow thing, in a BOOMIN' TOWN

      https://www.erowid.org/archive/rhodium/chemistry/popeye/popeye.drugwar.txt

    3. Re:Don't be too Optimistic by Zancarius · · Score: 1

      OT, but Slashdot, c'mon: "Read the rest of this comment..." -- the only rest was the dude's signature!

      Ugh, tell me about it. I've fiddled with the cut off settings, and sometimes that doesn't even seem to work. It's really pretty damn annoying, because about 70% of the posts with "read more" seem to just show (drum roll, please) the signature.

      I do like your suggested solution, though. That's clever.

      --
      He who has no .plan has small finger. ~ Confucius on UNIX
    4. Re:Don't be too Optimistic by Zancarius · · Score: 1

      I'd wager they pay for a majority of spam as a method of advertising their illicit services. That's not something I want.

      --
      He who has no .plan has small finger. ~ Confucius on UNIX
    5. Re:Don't be too Optimistic by Thing+1 · · Score: 1

      Thanks!

      --
      I feel fantastic, and I'm still alive.
  45. As usual slashdot is full of morons by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Go ahead mod me troll, but read first.

    Everytime infringement comes up, the zealots come out about copyright and patent infringement. The short tail of the problem.

    Let me ask you this, would you want to live in a world where everyone can sell "pain killers" and have it be anything from calcium carbonate to asbestos? That's what Patents and Trademarks protect you from, at least when applied correctly.

    That pain killer you get from China, likely nothing more than calcium carbonate. But you knew that when your pet died didn't you from buying cheap pet food that contained melamine?

    Get it right.
    Keeping DANGEROUS products out of the US, Canada, Mexico is a good thing. That keeps the cross-boarder bargain-shopping-idiots from buying the "cheap stuff" and bringing it back and then selling it to the locals and having none of the responsibility when they get sick or die.

    Counterfeit clothing? Maybe it contains lead, mercury... or is made entirely of plastic like PVC or BPA.

    When it comes to software and entertainment (games/movies/music), it's a small drop in the barrel that the MPAA/RIAA/BSA/ESA/etc that is being counterfeited, but they are being copied domestically in foreign countries without anyone making a dime, that's why the *AA companies want these laws, to prevent the re-import of the counterfeits.

    And if you think the average person isn't stupid. Go try and buy "Kim Possible" on DVD. Disney doesn't make it available, the pirates do. Can you see why people PAY MONEY for pirated copies? When Americans see that they can buy a TV series online that isn't available locally, they'll buy it (if they haven't already pirated off the net) and justify it as saying "Well it's legal in X country"

    And before you say nobody does that. That's the excuse used by every single South-east-asia country to sell pirated material. "It's legal here"

    1. Re:As usual slashdot is full of morons by narcc · · Score: 0, Troll

      Let me ask you this, would you want to live in a world where everyone can sell "pain killers" and have it be anything from calcium carbonate to asbestos? That's what Patents and Trademarks protect you from, at least when applied correctly.

      That's not even the tiniest bit true.

  46. Killer Potatoes by harrytuttle777 · · Score: 1

    Meet the new Boss. Same as the old Boss

  47. In other news... by dcavanaugh · · Score: 1

    President Obama's approval rating drops to a record low of 0%. Film at eleven.

  48. Re:Enforcement is a detail - we care about the Rul by Nikola+Tesla+and+You · · Score: 1

    The general mindset is that creativity is fueled by the profit motive, so the more profit the more progress we will see in the arts and sciences. And while this is demonstrably NOT universally true...

    Ingenuity motivates creativity. Greed motivates profit.

  49. hope & change by p51d007 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I tried to warn you liberal clowns that Hussein Obama was not the "white knight" you idiots thought he was. He is about CONTROL. Control over every aspect of you life. What you can eat, where you can work, go to school, what you can read, watch, hear and download. The government will not be happy until we have our "new world order", but, for that to happen, they have to completely destroy the U.S. economy, the constitution, and demoralize the people. Haven't you idiots ever heard of a dictator that didn't promise the world, then after he is in complete power, turn on the very people who put him there?

    1. Re:hope & change by Nikola+Tesla+and+You · · Score: 1

      Breaking News: Glenn Beck is on Slashdot!

    2. Re:hope & change by TouchAndGo · · Score: 1

      And McCain would have been better? Since losing he's made it clear that he's bought and paid for by the telecom industry. I think the real lesson to be learned from this is that we're fucked regardless of who we vote for, and the US is in an irrevocable downward spiral. Train's pulling out folks, perhaps it's time to get out while we still can.

  50. Squeeze tight by Derpnooner · · Score: 1

    The Gov't won't be able to match the creative methods of free exchange that will develop as a result of their tinkering. The harder they squeeze, the more people will resist. They can't monitor everyone at all times. You have the control - you who digs deeper than most.

    "I am a Snowflake, and though I am only one, I am one."

    --
    In Soviet Russia, road forks you!
  51. hey stupid by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    There are NO czar positions, idiot.

    The Czar term was MEDIA CREATED and the actual job titles are long and more descriptive things that sound too complex for American consumers to comprehend.

  52. WTF? You don't want poor kids in college? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You're saying that a child's economic situation should control their access to higher education.

    Personally, I grew up in the U.S. in a single parent family with four children and a household income below the poverty line. I had OK grades, good scores on national tests, and was the first person in the history of my high school to get a letter of commendation from the National Merit Scholarship folks (http://www.nationalmerit.org/). So, I was above average scholastically, but didn't qualify for any scholarships.

    I wouldn't have gone to college without the loan program and might not today be pulling in six figures a year.

    As far as loan defaults, I unfortunately know of multiple people who tried not to pay back their student loans -- not because they couldn't afford to, but because they simply didn't like the price.

    I've never seen any evidence that undergraduate college costs are related to loan/grant/scholarship subsidies... Citation?

    The loan program allows a student to choose to invest in their future. Getting rid of the loan program without replacing it with another mechanism would be a step backwards.

  53. I see The future of America by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    A Gray Rolls Royce pulls into the drive through lane of a McDonalds.
    Customer: Can I please get a Big Mac and a Coke
    Attendant: Yes Sir, we have 42 employees on duty at the moment, that will prepare your order with the utmost care and reverence, so that it arrives to you
    hot and perfect in every way. That will be $ 596,042.85 , please pull forward.

  54. What's this mean for Bernanke? by The+AtomicPunk · · Score: 1

    Are they finally cracking down on the Federal Reserve's printing of all this phony money?

  55. Re:WTF? You don't want poor kids in college? by Rich0 · · Score: 1

    I've never seen any evidence that undergraduate college costs are related to loan/grant/scholarship subsidies... Citation?

    When hasn't the price of something been related to the availability of the capital needed to purchase it? Just look at the crash in oil prices when all those speculators lost their shirts on the stock market crash and could no longer afford to trade oil futures. You can also look at the housing bubble - lots of cheap credit means inflated prices. If you think that somehow colleges are immune to the laws of supply and demand I'm going to have to ask you for a citation on that.

    That said, I really don't have a problem with providing better access for exceptional students of any background to college. Perhaps the solution is to just cap tuition for programs eligible for financial aid - for example don't allow a college to receive financial aid if it has a full time BS/BA degree program that costs more than $40k for tuition, fees, and books (TOTAL - not per year), and at least 90% of all students admitted should cost that amount or less (so no having teaser rates and then stringing people along for six years or whatever). That will create significant pressure for colleges to contain costs.

    The problem is that we increase the amount of federal aid since college is unaffordable. Then colleges raise tuition, and then we raise aid, and so on. If we stopped raising aid, then nobody would attend college, and colleges would QUICKLY drop their tuitions.

  56. I agree. See here for the proof. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I completely agree with what you are saying, but as always, wanted to see the report with my own eyes. If you read the report it mentions a Special 301 process. This is actually compiled by the IIPA (International Intellectual Property Alliance - http://www.iipa.com/aboutiipa.html) whose member include "the Association of American Publishers (AAP), the Business Software Alliance (BSA), the Entertainment Software Association (ESA), the Independent Film & Television Alliance (IFTA), the Motion Picture Association of America (MPAA), the National Music Publishers' Association (NMPA) and the Recording Industry Association of America (RIAA)". I suppose enough money buys you reports such as these with the presidential seal on them.

  57. Re:Enforcement is a detail - we care about the Rul by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It is unsurprising that the least creative people in the world would think that creativity is fuelled by profits.

    Creativity happens. People connect the dots, for better or for worse. Some ideas win and prevail, some lose and fall into the realm of obscurity.

    This has happened since the dawn of modern man. Before there was currency, before there was any metric, before there was anything.

    Inventive and creative people will continue to do what they do, creating new possibilities, to the detriment of those who have built empires on top of sand, eventually relegating them to the depths of irrelevance unless they adapt to new ways of doing things.

    You can not legislate against technological advancement any more than you can un-invent the atom bomb.

    The genie can not be put back in the bottle.

    captcha: illusion

  58. The plural of anecdote is not data by Sycraft-fu · · Score: 1

    So you look at a small, highly biased, sample and conclude this means the US doesn't manufacture stuff? That is not a valid method. Instead do some research and you'll find I'm right.

    However, even talking stuff just around your home, look around and I bet you find things made all over. I've got plenty of stuff made in China, like most people, but it doesn't take long to find things made elsewhere. My TV was made in Mexico, my AV Receiver in Japan, my speakers in the US.

    Of course something else you run in to with complex devices is that where the device is made doesn't necessarily tell the whole story. They are made of many parts, and it is labeled only for where the final unit was assembled. This is one of the reasons you see China crop up a lot, is they do assembly of many things. Parts are shipped over, finished units are shipped back. However those parts were still manufactured items.

    Let's take your computer, as a simple example, we won't even break it down as much as we could. So say you have a Dell computer. If it was made recently, and bought in America, it was probably made in Mexico. Ok fine, but then crack open the case. That Core i5 CPU was not made in Mexico, or China. It was made in Oregon, currently Intel's only 32nm fab (thought hey are upgrading others). If you look at it though, it probably says Costa Rica. The reason is that chips aren't packaged at the fabs, rather the wafers are shipped to packing plants for testing and placement in the final package. Costa Rica is a common one for US produced and marketed chips. Then we move on to your harddrive, let's say it's a Western Digital. That was made in Malaysia. Your graphics card? I don't know where they do the boards and assembly for those, but the chips for all modern ATi and nVidia cards come from TSMC, in Taiwan. Your motherboard is Intel so made under contract by Foxconn, in China. However the chips on it are not. The northbridge and southbrdige are made by Intel, most likely in Israel. Your power supply, probably made by CWT in China, but inside you find that the capacitors and such are made in Japan by firms like Panasonic and Nichon.

    So where was your computer made? The answer is all over the world. Parts came from a lot of companies, a lot of different places, and went together to make the system. That is was assembled in Mexico, or elsewhere isn't all that relevant.

    Finally, in terms of a number of goods, you'll find that you can get them made in the USA, or Europe, or Japan or the like if you just pay more. China offers cheap assembly, so many products are made there cheaply. Higher quality goods may not be. Take Denon receivers for example. Denon is a Japanese company (part of D&M Holdings). However buy any of their cheaper stuff and final assembly is in China hence "Made in China." However, buy their 4310 or better and you find it is now made in Japan. Pay for the high quality stuff, you get higher quality factories. Just don't cry that it costs more.

  59. What piracy is... by Gordonjcp · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Piracy is IDF paramilitary terrorists raiding aid convoys bringing food and medicine to Gaza. When are the denizens of the Whitehouse going to crack down on that?

    1. Re:What piracy is... by ubrgeek · · Score: 1

      Insightful? Really? I must have misunderstood the "offtopic" tag.

      --
      Bark less. Wag more.
  60. Goodbye Obama by Yvanhoe · · Score: 1

    "Change" was just meaning going back from the Bushian middle-age back to the 20th century. There is still the need for a president that will bring US to the 21st...

    --
    The Wise adapts himself to the world. The Fool adapts the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the Fool.
  61. IP of what? by noodler · · Score: 1

    I don't understand why everyone is worried about the 'creative' industries while there is a much bigger (and imo more sinister) beneficiary of strong IP law, namely the biotech industry.
    That's right, they need strong IP laws to make sure you don't copy their stuff without paying them.
    Thank god this industry doesn't do crazy stuff, like patenting human genes.
    Wait, that's not true:
    http://www.nature.com/news/2010/100330/full/news.2010.160.html
    While the patent was rejected in the US, the EU is willing to pay for it.

  62. BP and piracy, more related then one might think by fluffernutter · · Score: 2, Insightful

    One only needs to point to the BP disaster for a demonstration of the attitude of companies these days. If you can do it and not get arrested then it is right. The only difference between the oil industry and pirates is that the oil industry has the resources to bend the law to be favorable to them. I think it has become indisputable that 'legitimate corporations' will do anything they can to make a lot of bucks.

    And so, I'm sorry but until I see a difference of attitude in private enterprise, until they stand up to the qualities that they profess law or not, I will continue to applaud those 'pirates' who use their resourcefulness to provide a product in a better way and profit from it. For they will never hurt me as much as BP has. They will never kill as many livelihoods as BP has. Add to that the whole wall-street fiasco.

    I'm tired of hearing about the law, because corporate law has become a washed out, bought out joke that only helps profits of the powerful.

    --
    Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
  63. Not surprised. by dwiget001 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    It is more and more apparent, that President Obama and his Administration, with his "Hope and Change" machinations are really "More of the Same, and Much Much Worse!" (TM)

    With a little bit more of an expanded view, however, it is really Democrats and Republicans that are "More of the Same, and Much Much Worse!"

    Both of the two major parties need a severe wake-up call, namely, less and less of them should be voted into office to the point where it starts messing with their power base, campaign financing and the like. That's really the only thing that will get their attention and start governing "...for the people..." and not "... for the multi-national corporations that give me nice fat campaign donation checks".

  64. Flash of Genius by tekrat · · Score: 1

    See the movie "Flash of Genius". In this film, an American invents something useful, patents it, and is then ripped off by a big company. He sues and wins his case. It's about as close as you're going to come to what you asked for.

    I think copyright law is too complex an issue for a movie unless you dumb it down to "good guy versus bad guy" (which is kind of how Avatar played out).

    A better idea is to develop a sitcom about an average american family that has to deal with the struggles of the insane laws we face in this country. Like M*A*S*H, the best way to make a statement is through humor, and it will get people to think, kind of like the Daily Show. Now that "Law and Order" has been canceled, we need a show that is "ripped from today's headlines", and a sitcom using real issues our country faces hasn't been done since "All in the Family", which is constantly cited as one of the greatest TV productions of all time.

    --
    If telephones are outlawed, then only outlaws will have telephones.
  65. Losses in the billions by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    According to the article and similar I've seen repeated by the BSA and RIAA/MPAA themselves..

    "The national strategy, the first of its kind, will defend America's intellectual property by cracking down on the counterfeiting and piracy that are killing jobs, harming consumers, and stunting our economic recovery."

    We all know that 200 movies I've downloaded cost the MPAA $10000 in sales and movie tickets. Unfortunately, I don't have $10000 extra in my bank account and never had the $10000 upfront to buy those movies. I paid for community college tuition this year and bought a used car with the rest. Where is the actual loss to the overall economy because I downloaded 200 movies? I've spent every penny I've earned, there was NO loss to the economy at all. Why are my tax dollars being spent protecting a few companies profits under these obviously made up and completely bogus figures? If someone steals my car stereo, the local police tell me tough shit and that there is about a 0.1% chance I'll recover that loss. Why is the federal government not helping me?

  66. Defective by design by tepples · · Score: 1

    I see nothing criminal in the fact that a store isn't obligated to accept returns on things that are neither faulty nor were sold under fraudulent terms

    A lot of products are defective by design, but stores still take returns for exchange only.

  67. Re:White noise? by DoogZaNator · · Score: 1

    Are you sure this noise isn't copyrighted to the World Cup/FIFA?

  68. Joe Biden by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Joe has been fellating Mickey Mouse in his senate committee for several years. Just one of the many reasons people shouldn't have voted for a Democrat or Republican. It was personally rewarding for me to see magical Obama fall from grace in the eyes of all those emotional voters. You would think telecom immunity was a big enough hint.

  69. Copyright inquisition != forced sales. by damnfuct · · Score: 1


    It's quite well-known on slashdot that it is wrongfully assumed that 1 download = 1 lost sale. The government and companies are thinking something like "our profits will be incredible once we make people start paying for these downloads"; however, what will be the more likely case is that people will turn to free or free and open-source software. People like free, no copyright inquisition will get rid of this. When free software is also high-quality software, people don't see a reason to pay huge money for no reason. Below is probably some of the most stolen software, and some high-quality alternatives (some inspiration obtained from "most pirated" lists). Also take note that if you haven't used any of these free alternatives, you should definitely be taking notes and downloading:

    Windows: IF it weren't bundled with computers, and people had to pay, then most people would definitely be happy with some of the simple linux builds (especially with builds like ubuntu and its easy-installation/configuration features). After a significant leap in market share, the linux catch-22 might be broken in this case.
    MS Office: OpenOffice.org is already a great suite that feels natural to the MS office crowd.
    Adobe Acrobat: though it's just a PDF printer (not an editor), PDFcreator is an excellent free alternative.
    Adobe PhotoShop: GIMP is more than adequate for most end-users (professionals and serious amateurs will still opt to buy Photoshop for obvious reasons).
    {various optical media softare}: ImgBurn is free and powerful. Sure, it might take time to figure out, but it is similar to Nero in the non-idiot mode. For non-data applications, various freeware DVD authoring programs exist out there (and are easy to find).
    Ipswitch WS_FTP: Filezilla is an amazing FTP client, period. Also, if anyone else has any personal recommendations, please do post; I'm always looking for good, free software.

  70. For how long is everyone else hobbled? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    For how long is everyone else hobbled? Yes, your daddy made money from starting rockabilly. And those nasty foreigners are making money now. But how long do you pay your sound engineers who helped make that recording?

    Oh, that's right. Just the once. Then their creative help is worthless, YOU must make all the money.

    At what point is 90% of the money made from 90% of the works? THAT is where copyright should end.

    Extending the copyright length by twice doesn't give you 180% of the money, but it DOES cause 200% of the problems for EVERYONE ELSE.

    1. Re:For how long is everyone else hobbled? by paganizer · · Score: 1

      Actually, on a couple my dad WAS the sound engineer... but that is not the point. they didn't create it, and their contract didn't specify that they would get royalties, so that's a pretty odd argument. what percentage of the entire work would you attribute to the sound engineer? i would have problems putting it above 5%, at best (in pre-autotune days, at least).

      I don't quite understand where your attack is coming from, I disagree with the new law.

      and as there is no way, possible to formulate "At what point is 90% of the money made from 90% of the works?", we need fixed time periods. I don't think they should ever extend past the life of the artist, though.

      --
      Why, yes, I AM a Pagan Libertarian.
  71. WRONG! by bjk002 · · Score: 1

    "they" DO NOT "rake in far more money for the school", the program(s) do. The programs involve a plethora of individuals contributing to the success/failure of those programs.

    Get real and evaluate the disparity between the rock-star coaches and their second tier support folks (you know, the ones who do most of the actual WORK!). Its so ridiculous its laughable.

    This country, for some unknown reason, has devolved into a bunch of idol worshipers. Until this country gets its head out of its ass thinking that individual rock stars, or CEOs, or coaches, or , are worth these ridiculously disparate salaries, we're all doomed to this fate.

    No one person, regardless of skill level, can ever possibly contribute (or be worth) 1000 times more than any other one (similarly educated) person. Try to tell me I'm wrong.

    --
    Opinion:=TMyOpinion.Create(Me);
  72. US now under protectionist mode of thinking by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I'm little confused after reading Espinel's brief introduction at http://www.whitehouse.gov/omb/intellectualproperty/ipec/. How is a poisonous "counterfeit" toothpaste related to intellectual properties when supposed "counterfeit" toothpaste isn't actually violating IP since it's using poison and not the same product as the authentic one. And how is this example pertinent to IP issue? Shouldn't this fall under customs and product safety, or FDA??? It's somewhat irksome to think a head IP person in the US is actually using this type of analogy as a rationale for IP protection. It feels like US is gradually turning into a protectionist country, locking down on old innovation to protect its IP rights against the global thugs. This is going to look ugly, with US looking like an old wrinkly lady trying to protect her own turf at any cost instead of encouraging collaboration and partnerships... I think the assumed enemy of IPs is China here...

  73. FYI even Viacom/CBS were Bush supporters by Burz · · Score: 1

    with the vocal approval and lion's share of contributions from executives like Sumner Redstone going to Republicans for the two prior presidential elections.

    And even Rush Limbaugh said a few years ago that Conservatives had attained control of the mass media. IMO, it really shows.

    I'll also point out that coverage of massive anti-war demonstrations was vanishingly small before (and even after) the date when the Bush admin invaded Iraq. But now they can't get enough of those palid ;) wrinkled little darlings known as teabaggers with their relatively small demonstrations.

  74. Could you back this up with data? by Burz · · Score: 1

    Because it runs against even what one is likely to read in business journals.

    Recently I heard an analyst say we are #2 in terms of dollars for manufactured goods, but that doesn't mean the same thing as market share.

    Also, if your assessment relies on comparing us to EU member states individually instead of the EU as one market (as I suspect you are), then you're just way way off.

  75. That right there is how Wall St. views culture: by Burz · · Score: 1

    USA + British Isles. On those terms, there is practically no other culture in the world outside what US corporations control.

    Other cultures have no dollar value!!!

  76. Subject by Legion303 · · Score: 1

    "targeting foreign websites"

    Good luck with that.