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That's charmingly naive. You seriously think that Cameron will hold to his promise to cancel ID cards?

Not a Tory*, but "Dave" was absolutely right that a referendum post ratification would be pointless. They were idiots for promising one in the first place.
On the issue of the ID card; both opposition parties have pledged to drop the card and it has stopped being a vote winner to the extent that even Labour have rolled back the extent of the scheme. Now that cuts are needed it's an obvious, symbolic, target, but I'll keep donating to no2id to keep the pressure up to try and make sure that the NIR is dropped as well as the card.

*I live in a lib-dem\tory marginal & am a member of the Pirate Party UK. I'll probably vote Lib-dem.

what's your policy on healthcare and education?

The manifesto is still being voted on, but in brief: We want to abolish drug patents to make health care cheaper, & we want to shift the focus of IT education from learning how to use MSOffice to understanding how computers work. Here's the manifesto proposal: http://www.pirateparty.org.uk/wiki/Drafts:Manifesto_Proposal

Who can afford the lawyers? Now if they really wanted to make this work (don't forget that all parties in england have to pacify the media/content owners. Do you want to upset the content producers and then be ridiculed forever in every piece of content? Go ahead, suggest the BBC should be privatized, see how long your public image survives. Yesterday the BBC aired an entirely self serving copyright program that showed only the content owners point of view. How suprising)

Well, we upset the content producers by our very existence, but we still seem to be getting some media coverage -- indeed, several media organisations have contacted us in the last few hours asking for statements!

We've published a press release about last night's Panorama programme:

The Pirate Party UK has come out as highly critical of the BBC's recent Panorama programme for its disappointing coverage of the Digital Economy Bill.

Although Panorama attempted to give a fair hearing to both sides of the controversy surrounding the bill, it was ultimately considered inadequate. In particular, the BBC was criticised for its failure to get informed commentary from organisations opposed to the bill, such as the Open Rights Group, Coadec and the Pirate Party, meaning that the arguments both for and against the Digital Economy Bill were incomplete, largely misrepresented and often factually inaccurate.

...

Panorama: Separating Fact from Fiction

Who can afford the lawyers? Now if they really wanted to make this work (don't forget that all parties in england have to pacify the media/content owners. Do you want to upset the content producers and then be ridiculed forever in every piece of content? Go ahead, suggest the BBC should be privatized, see how long your public image survives. Yesterday the BBC aired an entirely self serving copyright program that showed only the content owners point of view. How suprising)

Well, we upset the content producers by our very existence, but we still seem to be getting some media coverage -- indeed, several media organisations have contacted us in the last few hours asking for statements!

We've published a press release about last night's Panorama programme:

The Pirate Party UK has come out as highly critical of the BBC's recent Panorama programme for its disappointing coverage of the Digital Economy Bill.

Although Panorama attempted to give a fair hearing to both sides of the controversy surrounding the bill, it was ultimately considered inadequate. In particular, the BBC was criticised for its failure to get informed commentary from organisations opposed to the bill, such as the Open Rights Group, Coadec and the Pirate Party, meaning that the arguments both for and against the Digital Economy Bill were incomplete, largely misrepresented and often factually inaccurate.

...

Panorama: Separating Fact from Fiction

So that's why wi-fi catches your eye, but for instance the John Venables story plastered all of the news, with the comment pages full of privacy vs. disclosure debates, didn't register?

With all the noise about Jon Venables, exactly which news outlet would pick up on the Pirate party's view of this story? With only volunteers to write press releases and blog posts we prioritize on issues that give us the most visibility. That's not to say we're not discussing it internally, there's a thread on the forum devoted to the issue.

The fact remains that it simply doesn't seem coincidental that none of the stories on the site on are really about freedom of speech or privacy, but a narrow set of interests.

Really? I just checked the PPUK fron page and there's a story about CCTV cameras being installed in a school toilet in Solihull http://www.pirateparty.org.uk/blog/2010/mar/9/solihull-school-installs-cctv-childrens-toilets/

It isn't surprising the Pirate Party has not been able to do that with their central concern of copyrights - it has a rather more limited vision.

Really? We've got things on our agenda like abolition of drug patents to make medication cheaper (I paraphrase). Sounds like medical policy to me. Similar principles can be applied throughout policy areas, you'd be surprised at how far IP law pervades society. Having said that, we're not looking to win power, just with the debate. The green party has all the big ones falling over themselves to appear greener than one another. We're looking for that type of success, not government.

The idea of a political party whose members mostly come from a similar domain of knowledge is kind of offputting, too.

This is hardly our fault, we are recruiting & we do have people from outside IT. I'm a librarian, for example. I agree we need more though, and we'll welcome anybody.

Oh, and if Green doesn't appeal, the Lib Dems and their Freedom Bill would deliver a number of the PPUK policy goals. Your efforts will have more effect feeding into an existing political machine rather than a new one. Really, why take a the less effective route to realise your goals?

These would be the same lib-dems who made the digital economy bill worse: http://www.pirateparty.org.uk/blog/2010/mar/6/lib-dems-make-digital-economy-bill-even-worse/

Well we helped convince their PPCs, but their MPs are ignoring them. http://www.libdemvoice.org/digital-economy-bill-parliamentarians-reply-to-prospective-candidates-18200.html If the lib-dems were to adopt all areas of Pirate policy, the need for the pirate party would be over, but they haven't and don't look like doing so.

So that's why wi-fi catches your eye, but for instance the John Venables story plastered all of the news, with the comment pages full of privacy vs. disclosure debates, didn't register?

With all the noise about Jon Venables, exactly which news outlet would pick up on the Pirate party's view of this story? With only volunteers to write press releases and blog posts we prioritize on issues that give us the most visibility. That's not to say we're not discussing it internally, there's a thread on the forum devoted to the issue.

The fact remains that it simply doesn't seem coincidental that none of the stories on the site on are really about freedom of speech or privacy, but a narrow set of interests.

Really? I just checked the PPUK fron page and there's a story about CCTV cameras being installed in a school toilet in Solihull http://www.pirateparty.org.uk/blog/2010/mar/9/solihull-school-installs-cctv-childrens-toilets/

It isn't surprising the Pirate Party has not been able to do that with their central concern of copyrights - it has a rather more limited vision.

Really? We've got things on our agenda like abolition of drug patents to make medication cheaper (I paraphrase). Sounds like medical policy to me. Similar principles can be applied throughout policy areas, you'd be surprised at how far IP law pervades society. Having said that, we're not looking to win power, just with the debate. The green party has all the big ones falling over themselves to appear greener than one another. We're looking for that type of success, not government.

The idea of a political party whose members mostly come from a similar domain of knowledge is kind of offputting, too.

This is hardly our fault, we are recruiting & we do have people from outside IT. I'm a librarian, for example. I agree we need more though, and we'll welcome anybody.

Oh, and if Green doesn't appeal, the Lib Dems and their Freedom Bill would deliver a number of the PPUK policy goals. Your efforts will have more effect feeding into an existing political machine rather than a new one. Really, why take a the less effective route to realise your goals?

These would be the same lib-dems who made the digital economy bill worse: http://www.pirateparty.org.uk/blog/2010/mar/6/lib-dems-make-digital-economy-bill-even-worse/

Well we helped convince their PPCs, but their MPs are ignoring them. http://www.libdemvoice.org/digital-economy-bill-parliamentarians-reply-to-prospective-candidates-18200.html If the lib-dems were to adopt all areas of Pirate policy, the need for the pirate party would be over, but they haven't and don't look like doing so.

what "serious" parties are there that cover the same policies as PPUK? There simply isn't one.

Thing is, if you stop and think, then the most obvious implication of this is that the PPUK's policies are therefore not serious ones. If you think and do a bit of reading, you realise you can drop copyright reform as an issue (you don't think it's important anyway), and then the Lib Dem's policies do in fact cover some of the PPUK policies. In short: your talking out your arse.

Your assertion that PPUK is simply a "single issue party" is nothing more than that: a personal assertion

No, try the thinking trick again. If it were nothing more than just an assertion, there would be no supporting logic or facts. But the three core ideas readily reduce to a platform addressing copyright reform, or digital rights as was mentioned in a separate post. The simplest solution is often the best one, so mine is not an assertion but a conclusion based upon the facts. Besides, look at this page: http://www.pirateparty.org.uk/wiki/Manifesto. Clearly the over-riding inspiration is intellectual property related matters.

The three issues that they are campaigning on are clearly stated on the PPUK website and the official manifesto.

Assuming of course that these documents possess both intellectual honesty and rigour. I do not believe they do, for reasons already given.

I'm a member because Privacy and Freedom of Speech are important to me.

Even though there is a more established party that is far more likely to get results on those issues? Why?

Could you back up that allegation with some facts?

Sure. There is a direct lineage from the PPUK through the International Pirate Party to the Swedish Pirate Party to the Pirate Bay, whose prominence is widely known to have driven the crucial early membership of the Party, and whose legal advisor became a Pirate Party board member. The Pirate Bay was found guilty of profiting from assisting from copyright violations in 2009.

Of course, if you did think copyright reform was important, you would have an honest argument in favour of the Pirate Bay. There's at least one I've made mysefl in the past, seeing as I do believe in copyright reform. As it is, you seem to be taking more of a "wilful ignorance" approach.

How will you reform Health care?

We're going to abolish drug patents making medicine cheaper: http://www.pirateparty.org.uk/wiki/Drafts:Manifesto_Proposal#Where_patents_don.27t_promote_innovation.2C_or_actively_prevent_it.2C_we.27ll_scrap_them

Rendition, torture, police using CCTV footage for blackmail? All genuine problems. What's the kind of thing that worries the Pirate Party? Not getting their wi-fi access: http://www.pirateparty.org.uk/blog/2010/feb/28/digital-economy-bill-will-kill-wifi-hotspots/

This is a story that happens to be in the news at the moment; we need to react to things like this to raise our profile. Check our draft manifesto for our Privacy & Freedom of speech policies: http://www.pirateparty.org.uk/wiki/Drafts:Manifesto_Proposal

Nothing about financial reform, war or the economy. Nothing about the environment, taxes or the spending thereof. It might even just be people starting a political party as an egotistical exercise.

We're not about to form a government, nor do we expect to.for a start we're not fielding enough candidates. At the moment there's no point straying out of our core areas; our aim is to pick up enough votes so that the bigger parties pick up our policies. You mention the Green party, in the same way all the major parties now try to be Green (despite the Greens never having an MP), we want them to also be Pirates.

Rendition, torture, police using CCTV footage for blackmail? All genuine problems. What's the kind of thing that worries the Pirate Party? Not getting their wi-fi access: http://www.pirateparty.org.uk/blog/2010/feb/28/digital-economy-bill-will-kill-wifi-hotspots/

This is a story that happens to be in the news at the moment; we need to react to things like this to raise our profile. Check our draft manifesto for our Privacy & Freedom of speech policies: http://www.pirateparty.org.uk/wiki/Drafts:Manifesto_Proposal

Nothing about financial reform, war or the economy. Nothing about the environment, taxes or the spending thereof. It might even just be people starting a political party as an egotistical exercise.

We're not about to form a government, nor do we expect to.for a start we're not fielding enough candidates. At the moment there's no point straying out of our core areas; our aim is to pick up enough votes so that the bigger parties pick up our policies. You mention the Green party, in the same way all the major parties now try to be Green (despite the Greens never having an MP), we want them to also be Pirates.

Most of all, I'm hugely in favour of anyone voting for any party other than Conservative or Labour. The two party state approach we have in the UK is causing huge amounts of damage. Voter apathy is completely understandable - I didn't vote last time myself - but let's face it, apathy is never impressive. Vote if you can, there is a genuine opportunity to shake up the established, economy-and-freedom destroying order of things.

Second, I'm broadly in favour of the policies of the Pirate Party.

But third - if you vote Pirate Party, I would wonder if you're handling the whole process of being a grown adult particularly well.

The driving force behind the party seems to me to be selfishness. They seem to desire these freedoms not because of the bad things that happen, but what they get out of it. Primarily filesharing because you might get free music and movies, and surveillance and freedom of speech concerns because they directly support that primary goal - with the added benefit of giving you the appearance of some moral high ground.

Rendition, torture, police using CCTV footage for blackmail? All genuine problems. What's the kind of thing that worries the Pirate Party? Not getting their wi-fi access: http://www.pirateparty.org.uk/blog/2010/feb/28/digital-economy-bill-will-kill-wifi-hotspots/.

Nothing about financial reform, war or the economy. Nothing about the environment, taxes or the spending thereof. It might even just be people starting a political party as an egotistical exercise. I can't say I'm inspired. I know they have graphic designers and programmers as leaders, but wonder if they are employed on a work-for-hire basis. Nothing wrong with that - but it does mean that while you are a creative person, your income is not dependent on the actual creative industries, or even copyright law to a large extent. So their professed support for the creative industry is no more credible than their support for freedom of speech.

Still, copyright definitely needs to be severely reformed, and reducing it to 5 years is exactly the right degree to take reform to. And I'm definitely all for voting for smaller, even single-issue parties as a way of voting for something you believe in. Voting for the Green Party, for instance, is a vote that won't win but I can respect (in those constituencies where it has a chance - vote Green!). Voting Pirate Party however is self-interest plus silliness, at a once-in-a-generation opportunity to see the established duopoly hurting : temptingly fertile grounds for taking the piss down the pub.

The single issue your party is based upon is extremely "fluffy" in your parties manifesto. While I have read your forum and appreciate this is being worked on it seems to still lack any significant content in terms of planned measures and rather focuses on statements to the effect of "We will make IP more fair". Based on this fact how could people justify voting for your party when all we basically have is a statement of intent rather than implementable policy?

The final draft manifesto: http://www.pirateparty.org.uk/wiki/Drafts:Manifesto_Proposal is far more concrete; it's being put to a party vote right now.

Can we have a 3 strikes for politicians so that when they've been caught with red handed with their hand in the checkout 3 times they're jailed and banned from ever entering politics again so that the likes of Mandelson would never have got to a position where he could single-handedly manipulate the Digital Economy Bill in the first place?

You joke, but our draft manifesto addresses transparency in government: http://www.pirateparty.org.uk/wiki/Drafts:Manifesto_Proposal#We_want_increased_government_transparency_and_accountability it's being voted on as I speak.

Seconded, wish I had mod points. The Pirate Party UK comes across as earnest and angry. Since it's a tiny insignificant protest party, that's a rather risible position to take. If you don't develop some levity, shouldn't you expect to be mocked?

Why not (and this is also a serious question) lighten up and try and project a fun, positive message, rather than just impotently bitching and moaning?

How would you suggest copyright be reformed?

This is the UK pirate party's stance on copyrights, as from their front page:

Reform copyright [...] law. We want to legalise non-commercial file sharing and reduce the excessive length of copyright protection, while ensuring that when creative works are sold, it's the artists who benefit, not monopoly rights holders. [...]

Do you have another suggestion as for how the copyright system should be reformed that would be more moderate and still effective? Or are you just agreeing with the UK PP without knowing that you are? :-)

The concept that the pirate party movement wants to dismantle any and all copyright law is a wide-spread misconception. The stance (at least for the UK and Swedish pirate parties) is more moderate than the name might suggest.

You've quickly gone from forum member to party leader in about half a year. It appears your background is graphic arts and music, not politics. How do you plan to convince your voters that you are competent and qualified? On top of that, your site only lists three core policies. Voting (to me) shows more than support. It shows I am confident in that person or group as leader of my country. As if by voting for you, I genuinely hope you are to be the next Prime Ministers, replacing Gordon Brown. Right now, privacy and copyright are important issues but possibly more important are things like foreign policy that might govern how you feel about the Iraq and Afghanistan wars or about the social programs in the UK. Could you extrapolate on your core issues to give us an idea of how you stand on the other major issues that will be debated among the more popular parties? I agree with you on your stated issues but being a one issue voter can result in disaster for the whole country, do you mind giving yourself more depth than just privacy and copyright?

What is your stance on erosion of privacy in UK? Will your party only follow the path of Intellectual Property rights, or do you plan to fight for freedom of speech, against invasion of privacy online and in daily life, censorship and other vital freedom-related problems.

We campaign on all three issues: http://www.pirateparty.org.uk/

As I pointed out in my original article that response from Lord Clement-Jones just highlights his lack of understanding.

He makes a major mistake in the first sentence - I pretty much stopped reading after then - although his assurances about it involving due process are worthless as the debate (and text) made it clear that the Court is not expected to be involved and if it is, the service provider will have to pay all the costs.

The Digital Economy Bill, as currently drafted, only deals with a certain type of copyright infringement, namely peer-to-peer file sharing.

Wrong!"P2P" or even the word "peer" do not appear at any point in the current text of the bill. The original recommendation in the Digital Britain report was limited to P2P if I remember correctly, and the major consultation over the summer (that I wrote 20,000 words on pointing out many of the flaws in their plans) was on P2P only, but when the actual text was published it had been expanded to cover any online activity.

Lord Clement-Jones may have seemed technologically competent and knowledgeable, but that was just in comparison to the government Ministers, so doesn't say much. The direct debate between him and the Earl of Erroll highlighted just how limited his understanding was.

The best outcome might be if this bill pass as it is right now. Then the UK Pirate Party would get some more voters love!

We can hope so. More likely the majority of the population will be happy reading about a bill aimed at "cutting off those evil illegal downloaders clogging up the intertubes" and vote Labour or Conservative (or even Lib Dem) just because they did last time.

Still, the Pirate movement is growing, both in the UK and the rest of the world; maybe things will start to change. [Disclaimer: Yes, I am a member of PPUK and currently work for Pirate Parties International.]

As such I am a Pirate - a member of the Pirate Party UK, that is.

As am I. I believe those in the UK who stand for the beliefs the average slashdotter believes in should consider supporting the pirate's cause.

People like you are what give companies excuses to try and control our software and the internet.

from what I said, I don't know. My actual opinion is thus: I don't personally wilfully infringe copyright, however I support copyright reform as I feel the current lengths are far too long; I think that a standard length of 10-20 years is probably about the correct limit. As such I am a Pirate - a member of the Pirate Party UK, that is.

But there are few alternatives to show your discontentment : Pirate Party

What about the Pirate Party UK [pirateparty.org.uk]

How do you stop being a mathematician? (you don't seem to have stopped).

By being forced to graduate from university and getting caught up in politics and law. It must be at least 3 months since I did any proper maths (and the stuff above doesn't count - any suitably well-taught 8 year-old should be able to derive the answer; and it is all on Wikipedia anyway). But still, I guess one never quite recovers from spending 5+ years almost entirely devoted to the subject...

Wish people would stop fussing that college actually makes them learn things outside their field of study.
If you get through college and don't understand why they made you take those classes you missed the point of college and need to go back because you still have a LOT more to learn about the world.

How do you stop being a mathematician? (you don't seem to have stopped).

By being forced to graduate from university and getting caught up in politics and law. It must be at least 3 months since I did any proper maths (and the stuff above doesn't count - any suitably well-taught 8 year-old should be able to derive the answer; and it is all on Wikipedia anyway). But still, I guess one never quite recovers from spending 5+ years almost entirely devoted to the subject...

For those few who haven't properly read through the article, here are the main numbers (skip to the end for a summary);

The government estimates that the initial cost of the "letter-writing" stage (i.e. "some evil corporate lawyer has got some very weak evidence that someone on your connection may be pirating; stop now or we'll cut you off") will be £1.40 ($2.25) per subscriber. This is the administrative cost to the ISP which they will have to pass on to their customers.

The report estimates that this minor increase will be enough to force 40,000 households (not people) to cancel their internet connection. So much for encouraging the uptake of broadband. None of this money will go to the music or film industry (although the Royal Mail might to well out of it).

The ISPs have estimated that the cost of implementing all the measures will be roughly £25 ($40) a year to broadband subscribers. This is where the £500m figure comes from, assuming 20,000 households with broadband. This money will not be going to the music or film industry (or book, magazine, porn, or similar creative industries, never mind individual content creators) but will presumably cover part of the administrative costs of the system as well as making up for the 40,000 lost subscriptions mentioned above. Note that if ministers expect an increase of £1.40 a year to lead to 40,000 cancelled subscriptions, when you also add on this £25 (plus the £6/yr broadband tax introduced last month) that number may go up dramatically.

Finally, ministers have estimated the benefit of this law. They estimate that it will lead to £1.7bn in "extra sale" revenue to the music and film industry over the next 10 years. Now, I'm fairly certain that most people on /. will happily shred the above concept, but for now, let us assume the figure (which is mysteriously close to the £180m/year losses the BPI claimed recently). From this, the government estimates that it will gain an extra £350m in tax revenue (about $560m). Now, I make that about 20%, which seems a little high to me, (VAT being 17.5% iirc, and with most of the industry being based abroad and knowing how to use a tax haven), but again, let us assume this figure.

So, in summary, the following are the initial effects of the Digital Economy Bill (ignoring rights issues, assuming government figures etc.):

• Over 40,000 households will cancel their broadband subscription.
• The cost to the general public will be £500m a year ($800m).
• The net gain to the film and music industry in the form of "extra sales" will be £170m a year ($270m),
• The gain to the UK government in the form of additional tax revenue will be £35m a year ($56m).

Am I the only one who can see a slight discrepancy here? There are many reasons I am supporting the UK's Pirate Party, thank you, Lord Mandelson, for helping our cause so much.

For the record, this clause didn't go completely unnoticed; it was spotted by the UK Pirate Party in their draft analysis (disclaimer: yes, I wrote most of that).

The entire clause reads:

124H Obligations to limit internet access

(1) The Secretary of State may at any time by order impose a technical obligation on internet service providers if the Secretary of State considers it appropriate in view of—
        (a) an assessment carried out or steps taken by OFCOM under section 124G; or
        (b) any other consideration.

(2) An order under this section must specify the date from which the technical obligation is to have effect, or provide for it to be specified.

(3) The order may also specify—
        (a) the criteria for taking the technical measure concerned against a subscriber;
        (b) the steps to be taken as part of the measure and when they are to be taken.”

A "technical obligation" is defined in the previous clause as an obligation on an ISP to impose a "technical measure" on a subscriber. The "technical measures" are also defined as something that limits the speed, blocks content, disconnects the user completely or "limits the service provided to a subscriber in another way". So yes, this clause would give a Secretary of State complete power over any internet connection in the UK.

This clause is probably the worst in the entire bill, and considering some of the other parts, that's saying something

For the record, this clause didn't go completely unnoticed; it was spotted by the UK Pirate Party in their draft analysis (disclaimer: yes, I wrote most of that).

The entire clause reads:

124H Obligations to limit internet access

(1) The Secretary of State may at any time by order impose a technical obligation on internet service providers if the Secretary of State considers it appropriate in view of—
        (a) an assessment carried out or steps taken by OFCOM under section 124G; or
        (b) any other consideration.

(2) An order under this section must specify the date from which the technical obligation is to have effect, or provide for it to be specified.

(3) The order may also specify—
        (a) the criteria for taking the technical measure concerned against a subscriber;
        (b) the steps to be taken as part of the measure and when they are to be taken.”

A "technical obligation" is defined in the previous clause as an obligation on an ISP to impose a "technical measure" on a subscriber. The "technical measures" are also defined as something that limits the speed, blocks content, disconnects the user completely or "limits the service provided to a subscriber in another way". So yes, this clause would give a Secretary of State complete power over any internet connection in the UK.

This clause is probably the worst in the entire bill, and considering some of the other parts, that's saying something

don't be stupid, be a smarty, come and join the pirate party
(seriously, http://www.pirateparty.org.uk/)

As has been said by others, you'll almost certainly get the good old form letter and the MP being written to won't even see your words. Want to really hit them where it hurts? Vote for someone else. And join a party that isn't one of the big three... we need to make sure their time is passed.

I'd suggest the Pirate Party UK. All new members welcome. :-)

How quickly people forget that the GPL relies on copyright to function.

No, it's not forgotten at all. Stallman raised this issue a few weeks ago, and since then the Pirate Party UK, at least, has decided to adopt the solution he proposed:

...a special rule for free software: to make copyright last longer for free software, so that it can continue to be copylefted. This explicit exception for free software would counterbalance the effective exception for proprietary software. Even ten years ought to be enough, I think.

(Okay, not exactly, because the exception would be for software released with source code, rather than for Free software explicitly).

I want a British pirate party now. We need one :/

That's okay, because we've got one! Just passed 500 paid-up members, too.

...and if you are not in Australia, sign up to your local party!

The Pirate Party will only become a major force in politics if people are prepared to put in the time, effort and cash needed to make it work. Here in the Pirate Party UK, we are facing a huge challenge to raise enough money to put up a significant number of candidates in the next general election. We have 650 constituencies, each requiring a £500 deposit before we can give voters the chance to vote pirate.

I'm a UK musician and I don't back this draconian garbage. I fileshare. I support filesharing.

Where's my say on the matter?

http://www.pirateparty.org.uk/

We have. Look at the Pirate Party in Europe. The difference is here in the USA we have a flawed system... When you are advocating a third choice in a system designed for only two choices, its very hard to get a third choice accepted.

The American system is FPTP like the British one, we managed to get a Third Party, and a bunch of smaller ones. Why the USA hasn't developed "The Texas independence party" or "The New York First Party" etc. is beyond me. You guys should have parties from all 50 states represented in congress, where are all your local parties?

And just because you stand little chance of being elected isn't a reason not to create or join a smaller party. The Greens in the UK have all three main parties spouting their message because they were taking important votes in marginal constituencies. They've never had a single seat, but they've effectively won the argument. That's far more important than getting power, and it's a part of our strategy as well. We know we're not going to win a seat, but we can make others lose until they listen to our message (in case it's not obvious enough I recently joined the Pirate Party UK).

The Pirate Party are the only ones serious about challenging ID cards; the tories are just making noises about it for political gain.

The Lib Dems and Greens are also strongly opposed to 'em, and both are more likely to be in a position to be able to assert power and do something about it. I fear the Pirate Party's obsession with 'free (gratis) stuff' also blinds them to the harm it'll do to Free (libre) software.

Free Software has always been at the forefront of Pirate Party policy, and when RMS speaks, the PPUK listens carefully and is careful to ensure that any proposed copyright reform will strengthen Free Software

(e.g. I think the current copyright reform idea from Pirate Party UK is that extended copyright should be conditional on source-code being held in escrow, for release upon expiry of the exclusivity period)

From the UK and don't like the ID card proposals? Then use your vote next year!

As a UK citizen who works abroad I have not had a vote for years.

Whose fault is that?

Ah, that sounds optimistic. I'd had no response to a post I made about a week before that story, nor when I repeated the same point on what appears to be their preferred forum.

From the UK and don't like the ID card proposals? Then use your vote next year!

As a UK citizen who works abroad I have not had a vote for years. Their stupid rules don't allow me to vote yet they allow illegal immigrants to register any number of votes each.

The system is rigged to skew results to the left.

From the UK and don't like the ID card proposals? Then use your vote next year!

You have other options.

I fear the Pirate Party's obsession with 'free (gratis) stuff' also blinds them to the harm it'll do to Free (libre) software.

I'm not too worried about that: http://www.pirateparty.org.uk/blog/2009/aug/18/rms-talks-pirate-party-uk/

From the UK and don't like the ID card proposals? Then use your vote next year!

For all those in the UK who are concerned about these issues, I ask you to join the UK Pirate Party. We are committed to fighting against just these issues in a political context, and trying to get MPs and more realistically) MEPs elected, so the Pirate Party can get its viewed not just heard, but gain some real power in implementing. We could use your support, so come and join us!

Given the number of other rights willingly surrendered by the good people of the British Isles

We havn't all given them up, Some of us are fighting to retain the rights we have and get back others. We now even have an political party to vote for. And even if the Pirates don't win a seat, there is another major political party committed to passing a bill to reclaim our freedom. Even the TFA is about people standing up against government committing to free ideals, even if out of selfish motives. The cause of Freedom is nowhere near lost in the UK.

I'd say Pirate Party.... hopefully you'll get one soon. In the last few days, the UK Pirate Party has registered as an official party in the UK!

Some may call that inspiring, but its ultimately pointless. As a westerner under the rule of the evil western governments (though apparenty not upto the Evilness of those of asia), what do you want me to do? We can't stop our own less-evil governments from cranking out laws stripping us of our freedoms, let alone get the majority of the population to even vote to stop it. What can I, as a man who has so very little influence over his own country, do to right the wrongs of a country the purposely limits the flow of information to stop whatever little influence I may have.

You may want me to act on this, but you don't say how. We have lots of meaningless banner waving, that does nothing.

p.s On a very vaguely related note, I urge UK readers to atleast glance at http://www.pirateparty.org.uk/, its not much, but its some sort of start.

http://www.pirateparty.org.uk/

(and - to be more generic - on http://www.pp-international.net/ all pirate party organisations are listed)

And the UK.

One problem with leaving the UK is that assaults on civil liberties are happening in other Western democracies too. So instead of leaving the country, you should fight back.

One way to do this is to join the Pirate Party UK, which is focussed on defending your civil liberties from governments and corporations that want to destroy them. We're for freedom of speech (and therefore against people having their net access cut off), against ID cards, against software patents, and against the government snooping on your email and phone calls.

One objection is that campaigning doesn't achieve results. This is untrue: Pirate Party achieved 7% in the recent Swedish election, and since the Internet and issues involved are worldwide, there's no reason PPUK can't achieve similar results. In fact, we should be able to achieve an even higher vote share because:

• Every year, more people use the Internet, and they use it to do more stuff. There are an estimated 7 million fileshares in the UK today; in two years time there may be 8 million, or 10 million, or 15 million. That's more people who care about the issues we care about and the big parties ignore.
• Our support is concentrated among mainly younger voters who use the Internet as part of their native culture. Every year, another load of 18 year olds get to vote, and many will vote for us, if the Swedish example is anything to go by.
• the entertainment industry and the government aren't going to stop trying to take away our liberties. Every time they do, we'll get more coverage and support.
• Swedish PP support is skewed towards male voters. But women use the Internet just as much as men, and have as much reason to care about their liberties. Once we've cracked the problem of getting women to vote for us in equal numbers, our vote share could almost double.

If like me you think this is absurd, let me suggest you join the Pirate Party in your country. We recently got 7.1% of the vote in Sweden, and it's likely that soon we'll be achieving this and more throughout the developed world.

In the UK, join Pirate Party UK; elsewhere look at Pirate Party International to find your national Pirate Party.