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HP announced they were open sourcing it last month, which it says in the summary. It doesn't explain well that HP today laid out their plans, with release dates, for a complete open source webOS. As well as released the Enyo framework, across multiple platforms. Already seeing apps running in browsers and on Android based on it. Today is the actual start of them opening up the source on things. http://precentral.net/ - Multiple articles up today detailing everything that was released today.

See my comments above on how to spoof a supported hp printer for your non-supported one. More information on the "print to any printer" thread found on http://forums.precentral.net/

there is no default app to take a picture with the camera

The latest update to webOS for TouchPad (ver 3.0.4) includes a "Camera" app. Just sayin'.

You overclocked a tablet? Really? Why do you hate your battery?

Have you tried some tweaks to fix the source of some of the problems first?
  yeah, they're a start, but still not enough...

Overclocking mobile devices often results in better battery life. It can do the work faster at the higher clock and then return to a lower clock sooner, saving you battery.

You overclocked a tablet? Really? Why do you hate your battery?

Have you tried some tweaks to fix the source of some of the problems first?
yeah, they're a start, but still not enough...

You really only need one link. But here's another. And here is a place where you can pop over to ask for help if you need it.

You can install kindle by following the instructions here:

http://forums.precentral.net/hp-touchpad-apps/288730-no-kindle-app-uk-3.html#post3099814

Works fine on my uk touchpad :)

Ask and you shall receive.

Folks, if you want to beat iXYZ (of which I'm not a fanboi):

1. You have to have better hardware
2. A lower price
3. Or both (best)

Otherwise, why would anyone move to your platform?

That said, WebOS is an awesome open-sourceish platform. It looks great too, and it's easy to make apps.

I hope it gains traction to preserve some sanity in the marketplace and prevent a total Steve Jobs monopoly.

I see it as a partner, and not enemy of Android in this endeavor.

On a related note, here is a WebOS user who came home to find his house broken into and all his tech stuff stolen. He now relates how he gets by with only a HP TouchPad. Some of the points you raised are addressed by him from a user's perspective.

On a related note, here is a WebOS user who came home to find his house broken into and all his tech stuff stolen. He now relates how he gets by with only a HP TouchPad. Some of the points you raised are addressed by him from a user's perspective.

Try this chart. Yes, Apple is the fourth largest manufacturer of personal computers yet they only shipped 9.5% of the total. Yes they have tripled their market share in a year by 3X3 is still only 9. Those figures even include iPads which is debatable. To me, anything without a real keyboard is not a personal computer and should be in its own class.

HP has the same problem as Nokia and RIM. Company execs aren't putting enough resources into their new OS's to get things moving.

Nokia had a good thing started with Maemo/Meego. Just look at the recent N950, N9 reviews by Engadget and others (
http://www.engadget.com/2011/06/21/nokia-n9-first-hands-on/ ; http://www.engadget.com/2011/06/30/nokias-n950-demos-meego-harmattan-in-marathon-video/ ). A great start/ideas, but they didn't put enough of their not insubstantial resources behind it to get it developed quickly. They gave developers a mixed message, which had a lot of them sitting back waiting to see if there was going to be full commitment by the company before joining in.
Result, the new OS floundered from lack of backing, and they ended up turning to Microsoft.

RIM had been giving the developers the same mixed message about where they are headed. QNX could be an awesome phone OS. Frankly, I'm not sure why someone wasn't putting it on phones years ago. Will it succeed? If it does, it will be despite the big brass's ambivalent attitude.

And now we have HP, which bought a great little OS in WebOS from Palm, that just didn't have the money to dig themselves out of the hole they let themselves get into.

HP's administration said they were going to "double down on WebOS." Their new CEO says they are going to "be cooler than apple". He's also said they were going to avoid the same mistakes made in the past and that they would now "ship products within weeks of announcement"".

HP keeps claiming they have 'incredible scale' and vast resources to make WebOS a success. But since the purchase of Palm, they haven't put their money where their mouth is.

What have they done with those vast resources?

They let the bulk of the creative talent from Palm, the folks who had all the great ideas that make WebOS the induitive OS that it is, leave to go to Apple, Google, or anywhere but HP.

They've put out the Veer, which is basically a smaller version of the original pre, with slightly upgraded hardware.

They have essentially converted a tablet that they were originally going to have run a MS OS. Their Touchpad is bulkier, heavier, and has slower hardware than the competition. And the OS is laggy.

The 'Cool thing' about the Touchpad was that it is supposed to synch with their(new) phones, (Veer, and Pre3). The veer is selling terribly because it's too tiny for a smartphone.

And the Pre3? The Pre3 was announced in February. It's going to ship (in the U.S.) in the Fall. With specs that are way outclassed by phones already released with Android, and facing a likely new iPhone in the fall, as well as some insanely better hardware in the Galaxy S2.

Not much to show for HPs vaunted vast resources.

And then there's customer service...

Original Pre owners were strung along for many months by HP, who told them their Pre phones would be upgraded to WebOS version 2.x and finally get FLASH, that was promised to them 2 years ago when the phone first went on sale. Then at the last minute, folks found out (via twitter, not even a real press release) that that wasn't going to happen.

Then they said they'd do something to 'make things right' to the WebOS users. What did they do finally? Their marketing guys attempted to upsell those folks by giving them a $50 coupon for the touchpad. But only if they got the high end 32MB version. And only if they did it within 30 days of the notice.

Not timely, not cool HP.

I'm afraid WebOS is fated to go the way of BeOS. O

I wrote Final Fantasy XI Timer for Palm entirely on my Palm Tungsten W using the PP compiler. There where several other compiler for Palm as well.

I'm also hoping to write application on my Palm Pre. I already released an update to Terminal by compiling it with gcc right on my Palm Pre.

Was Steve Jobs right? Is a single, restrictive & tested, marketplace the way to go?

No. Malware can get into a single market just by businesses rather than "cybercriminals" http://www.readwriteweb.com/archives/dear_iphone_users_your_apps_are_spying_on_you.php [readwriteweb.com] And of course all platforms have had some sort of remote exploit http://news.cnet.com/8301-27080_3-10299378-245.html [cnet.com] Conclusion: a "single, restrictive & tested, marketplace" just provides a feeling of security, while giving up the user-freedom of installing any app. I prefer the freedom and am (so far) very happy with the homebrew community support offered by Palm (and now HP) http://www.precentral.net/hp-donates-server-homebrew-webos-internals-group [precentral.net] Techy users should be able to install whatever homebrew app they want...just understanding "no lifeguard on duty."

Say what you will about Apple's "walled garden" but I don't hear of such things on their AppStore.

It happens just by businesses rather than "cybercriminals" http://www.readwriteweb.com/archives/dear_iphone_users_your_apps_are_spying_on_you.php And of course all platforms have had some sort of remote exploit http://news.cnet.com/8301-27080_3-10299378-245.html Conclusion: "walled gardens" for apps just provide a feeling of security, while giving up the user-freedom of installing any app. Personally I prefer the freedom and am (so far) very happy with the homebrew community support offered by Palm (and now HP) http://www.precentral.net/hp-donates-server-homebrew-webos-internals-group

Yeah I just saw that.

the webos community at precentral is up in arms. Sounds like they achieved ditching what was left of the palm fanbase.

As a pre+ user, it certainly changed my mind about getting one of these. How can I trust them to support these devices down the road?

Well with all the lockdowns going on with Android, I would honestly wait for the rumored "PalmPad" that's expected on February 9th. I don't know that it will be a ready to sell announcement, in fact, I kind of doubt it, but if it seems worth it to wait for Honeycomb, might as well consider all your available (hackable) options, and unless HPalm decides to change the way webos has worked when they introduce the "PalmPad" it will be easily hackable and easily repairable. I'm currently resetting my Palm Pre right now as I have some craziness going on from some of the poor choices in patching that I did, and it'll take all of 20-30 minutes of an automated system to do it, and another 15 minutes of automated backup restores. Really, I think (cue the flamewar) that Palm's produce line sucks right now, but their software and hackability make them my absolute first choice for anything gadgetie.

About the only thing that ISN'T oss in webos is the display layer on top. And you can get X server running on the pre as well. http://forums.precentral.net/webos-internals/240926-x-server-pre.html So yeah it's not as FOSS as MeeGo, but it's still a HUGE win for oss and unlocked phones.

Please describe a more serious "flaw" for a cell phone than dropping calls.

Having to be rebooted every day

Four-hour battery life

I'd happily have a dropped call out of every 100 (or out of every 20, really) if I had a phone that never required a reboot and lasted all day. It's more than just a phone, after all -- if we were talking about a RAZR or a simple Nokia it'd be a different matter.

WebOS is very open: you can develop apps, like in all ecosystems, but also you can hack the OS, an act that is not frowned upon by Palm and is even encouraged ( http://www.precentral.net/palm-hearts-homebrew-community ), although I agree they have not gone so far as to call it Open-Sourced.

Umm.. you really haven't been following Palm at all have you?

That e-mail exploit was closed back during the initial months after launch, and hasn't been needed to install software for AGES. If you read my post above you might notice Preware mentioned. There is also WebOS Quick Install available, Which many people use to initially install Preware with.

When I open Preware on my Pre I show (as of 04/12/10) over 2000 apps available. Admittedly, that's not as many as the iPhone or even Android. But the app availability has been growing steadily.

One notable item is that Palm has been uniquely open and forthcoming with the home brew community, even going so far as to integrate some of their improvements into WebOS. Palm has also made their programming staff available to some high profile community developers to assist them in fully integrating apps that they were developing. So in all the ways that count, Palm has been much friendlier and easier to work with for developers than either Apple or Google.

I just hope that whoever buys them continues that tradition.

The apps are all loaded in RAM and can continue to run... it is true multitasking.

You need multitasking like this when your OS is so flaky that you need to run a third-party app that reboots your phone every night.

Sorry, but it is NOT true multitasking. Applications will have to be re-written to act like a service, then they will be "suspended" and enable quick application switching: http://www.precentral.net/apple-plays-its-multitasking-card-its-no-ace

"What Apple is doing instead of 'true' multitasking is offering seven different OS-level services that apps can take advantage of in lieu of actually running in the background: audio, VOIP, location, push notifications, local notifications, task finishing, and fast app switching. To switch to a recently opened app, you double-tap the home button and a dock of your recent apps pops up"

If you want to see real phone multitasking in action, and with a wonderful UI to go along with it/manage it, look at how Palm WebOS does it.

How many fucking apps do you need to run at one time? It's a goddamn phone!

Sorry, but it is NOT true multitasking. Applications will have to be re-written to act like a service, then they will be "suspended" and enable quick application switching: http://www.precentral.net/apple-plays-its-multitasking-card-its-no-ace

"What Apple is doing instead of 'true' multitasking is offering seven different OS-level services that apps can take advantage of in lieu of actually running in the background: audio, VOIP, location, push notifications, local notifications, task finishing, and fast app switching. To switch to a recently opened app, you double-tap the home button and a dock of your recent apps pops up"

If you want to see real phone multitasking in action, and with a wonderful UI to go along with it/manage it, look at how Palm WebOS does it.

I believe 3G phones will allow both voice and data because the HSDPA and EDGE work on different radios. The CDMA/EVDO phones use the same radio for the different speeds, so it's data or vice, not both. According to some, EVDO Rev A is supposed to allow both, but for whatever reason, it hasn't been implemented.

With Sprint phones there is a DDTM setting which allows one to decide it incoming calls can interrupt/suspend an active data connection, or send calls to voice mail.

Oh, and BTW: I bet it will tether to my G1.

And to my Palm Pre
http://www.precentral.net/dear-steve-jobs-tethering-ipad-easy-palm-pre-plus

http://www.precentral.net/no-buzz-google-webos-spoofing-fails-fool

I still can't understand how it is that they're completely ignoring Palm's WebOS despite the fact that it's 99% identical to the iPhone's browser...

They did the same goddamn thing for Latitude and Wave. Both of those apps work fine on WebOS, but they block non-Android/iPhone user agents. Why are you blocking my phone even though your mobile web apps either 99% or 100% work on it Google? e_e

http://crackberry.com/free-blackberry-storm-lightsaber-app-emerges

http://www.freewarepocketpc.net/ppc-download-htc-light-saber-v1-0.html

http://forums.precentral.net/homebrew-apps/195472-dklightsaber-lightsaber-app.html

These don't count? Never underestimate nerds and homebrew.

If you've got a Palm Pre (or are going to get a Pixi), try Keyring for webOS:

http://www.precentral.net/homebrew-apps/keyring

Pretty much a clone of Keyring for PalmOS. I don't yet have support for categories, but it does have the ability to backup to an off-phone location over-the-air. It's GPLv3, and uses Blowfish encryption.

I love my pre. Palm is encouraging the homebrew community, and once you install preware, getting most of the things you wish were in the default OS is really easy via patches. Development is open (albeit just javascript for now), and the UI is responsive, even without using the GPU yet. Palm just hired Mathew Tippet from AMD, so speculation is that WebOS will likely start using the GPU soon and become a whole lot smoother (and it's not bad now!).

One benefit of choosing the html/css/javascript approach (hence, the 'Web' in WebOS), is that the barrier to entry is reduced for people (like me) who have never developed for a phone before. I'm excited to have a phone I can write my own stuff for without much effort. Heck the (free) SDK runs just fine on linux. That's a first.

And, of course, it's a linux phone. And you don't have to jailbreak it to get that access. Connect with novaterm, and you are in a busybox session. The phone runs iptables for firewalling. It has standard network interfaces. Vi and Wget are already there. You can enable cron, install openssh, etc. A couple of things that I've already done was to put an ad-blocking /etc/hosts file on, and to also customize the autoreplace dictionary (shame there's no good GUI app for that yet).

Linkees:
http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Main_Page
http://www.precentral.net/homebrew-apps

But you can download apps from anywhere now. Take a look at precentral and their homebrew apps area.

The Pre is not a walled garden. If you want to install something, go right ahead, they won't stop you. If you want to install something from their app store or have them provide help in downloading an app, then they want some control. At this point, what they are proposing seems reasonable.

Let us more sophisticated users & developers out of that garden completely. Let us skin our knees, pee on the electric fence, and shoot ourselves in the tootsies. That's what we want, we're taking the risk, so why not?

OK, if that's what you want....

Or are you saying that "more sophisticated users & developers" can't do the simple tricks required to install from homebrew. And for what it's worth, precentral.net has no special blessing from Palm so you could do the exact same thing if you so desired.

Palm seems to have no problem with it. The Palm Pre is going to be the first phone to support Flash:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SpI6gA9cuME
http://www.precentral.net/adobe-flash-player-101-demod-pre

Yes. Must be a slow news day. Here's some follow-up from the first time this appeared.

The app store is being replaced by Homebrew applications so it doesn't really matter what Palm does with the app store with the exception of having the application settings backed up. Furthermore, there are hundreds of free apps with new ones popping up every day.

http://www.precentral.net/how-to-install-homebrew-apps

I love my palm pre.

We got more applications than we could handle well, which is a good problem to have. Unfortunately, it means we dropped some things on the floor, and that's bad, but with the impending "stuff" that's coming, this is all going to get a lot easier for everyone and a lot more transparent.

If you didn't get a response in a timely manner, let me apologize to you. We should have done a better job on this, and I apologize for this. I'm working with the people I work with on this to try to make sure we do a better job of this moving forward. Good news is we've hired some people -- one's started, one starts next week, and the third starts the week after that, and that'll give us some great people and some new resources to make sure this gets fixed and works properly.

As the previous poster started, unlike the iPhone, there is a very active home brew community which Palm has not only blessed, but has assisted with:

http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Application:Preware

I don't suppose it could be, say, the completely and totally overwhelming response from developers has overloaded Palm's limited ability to process new App Store submissions that has led to some isolated developers having issues?

NAH, IT'S KAFKA-ESQUE!

I mean, hey. It's not an Apple product, so WE MUST DUMP ON IT! Let's just ignore the vibrant and rapidly growing Homebrew scene, many of which are already in the official App catalog, with many many more on the way. Let's just focus on the one unfortunate who had a bad experience, and then blow it all out of proportion so that we can all sit back in smug iSatisfaction.

Which iSlave is posting these "stories" and why are they allowed to get to the front page?

I don't suppose it could be, say, the completely and totally overwhelming response from developers has overloaded Palm's limited ability to process new App Store submissions that has led to some isolated developers having issues?

NAH, IT'S KAFKA-ESQUE!

I mean, hey. It's not an Apple product, so WE MUST DUMP ON IT! Let's just ignore the vibrant and rapidly growing Homebrew scene, many of which are already in the official App catalog, with many many more on the way. Let's just focus on the one unfortunate who had a bad experience, and then blow it all out of proportion so that we can all sit back in smug iSatisfaction.

Which iSlave is posting these "stories" and why are they allowed to get to the front page?

I don't suppose it could be, say, the completely and totally overwhelming response from developers has overloaded Palm's limited ability to process new App Store submissions that has led to some isolated developers having issues?

NAH, IT'S KAFKA-ESQUE!

I mean, hey. It's not an Apple product, so WE MUST DUMP ON IT! Let's just ignore the vibrant and rapidly growing Homebrew scene, many of which are already in the official App catalog, with many many more on the way. Let's just focus on the one unfortunate who had a bad experience, and then blow it all out of proportion so that we can all sit back in smug iSatisfaction.

Which iSlave is posting these "stories" and why are they allowed to get to the front page?

Meanwhile, the Palm Pre has had Google Voice, first unofficially (as homebrew) and now as official (through the app catalog); and both free:

http://www.precentral.net/app-catalog-gets-google-voice-app-and-much-more
http://www.precentral.net/homebrew-apps/gdial-pro-google-voice-app

So... why is Sprint OK with Google Voice when AT&T is not?

Meanwhile, the Palm Pre has had Google Voice, first unofficially (as homebrew) and now as official (through the app catalog); and both free:

http://www.precentral.net/app-catalog-gets-google-voice-app-and-much-more
http://www.precentral.net/homebrew-apps/gdial-pro-google-voice-app

So... why is Sprint OK with Google Voice when AT&T is not?

My Palm Pre already runs an interface that looks like Andriod.

http://www.engadget.com/2009/01/21/palm-pre-android-port-already-in-progress/
http://www.precentral.net/homebrew-apps/androidapp

Why would I want to switch? It's Linux, I can root the phone, it outshines the iPhone, has a ton of homebrew apps and games (most are free), awesome display, it can multitask, and the hardware is awesome.

As a side note, wouldn't it be nice if you could buy any cell phone and choose the provider you wanted. Instead, they lock it down to a phone and this has been the #1 reason for the 'Google phone's' failure.

http://www.precentral.net/fyi-pre-reports-your-location-palm

When PreCentral's people asked Palm about this, their official statement to them in part was:

        Our goal has been to follow industry best practices on data collection, use, and encryption. Like most EULAs and privacy policies, though, the terms tend to get pretty detailed about potential scenarios. And because the terms are meant to notify users about all possible variations, we wanted to err on the side of over notifying rather than under notifying users through the terms of use. So there's really nothing here "beyond the norm" for a EULA or privacy policy.

        The provision you've quoted explains why Palm might collect user information. For example, we collect and transmit users' email addresses, email content, contact lists, etc. to provide WebOS services such as back-up and restore for the purpose of backing up that data and helping users restore the data if needed (in that case, it would not be limited to just the email address collected at registration). If users someday make purchases on their device through the Apps Catalog, then we would also collect payment information to process the transaction.

        At all times, we'd be strictly bound by our privacy policy. Our privacy policy, like virtually all others in the industry, contemplate our using data to provide services users have requested, improve our products and services (hence the reference to Palm's own "sales and marketing" in the privacy policy), troubleshoot, etc. We also refer to affiliates because Palm is a global company, and we may need to transmit data from our European subsidiary to the parent company. We're obviously not a conglomerate with many different subs and affiliates, but the terms specifically mention subs and affiliates so that we can comply with European data protection laws that require us to spell out that data collected by a European sub can be transmitted to another part of the company.

30?

It looks like the paragraph Palm is referencing can be found towards the top of the second page of the USB-IF Membership Application, specifically this sentence:

Unauthorized use of assigned or unassigned USB Vendor ID Numbers and associated Product ID Numbers are strictly prohibited.

Although, at the same time, the way Palm restored iTunes syncing with the Pre was to have it use Apple's Vendor ID Number, which is also expressly prohibited by another couple of sentences in the very same paragraph:

Each Vendor ID Number is assigned to one company for its sole and exclusive use, along with associated Product ID Numbers. They may not be sold, transferred, or used by others, directly or indirectly, except in special circumstances and then only upon prior written approval by USB-IF.

So unless Palm has already acquired said written approval from the USB-IF, they are also in violation of their agreement.

It looks to me like Palm is very clearly in the wrong, and that Apple may or may not be, depending on who gets to be the official interpreter of the phrase "unauthorized use." I have to say, in a world where "ID" is normally short for "identification," using a "Vendor ID Number" to identify devices that came from that vendor sounds pretty standard.

Well, actually, they're telling them that the Pre is a device made by Apple:

http://www.precentral.net/how-palm-re-enabled-itunes-sync

That's a bit shady,

No, it really isn't.

Well, actually, they're telling them that the Pre is a device made by Apple:

http://www.precentral.net/how-palm-re-enabled-itunes-sync

That's a bit shady, and for a group so concerned with open standards like USB, I would imagine more Slashdotters would find that practice questionable.

Unauthorized use of assigned or unassigned USB Vendor ID Numbers and associated Product ID Numbers are strictly prohibited.

And because the world doesn't always make sense, Palm filed a complaint with the USB Implementors Forum, stating Apple is abusing the vendor ID (according to http://digitaldaily.allthingsd.com/20090723/you-can-almost-hear-the-shrieks-of-outrage-in-cupertino-cant-you/ ).

I like it far better, anyway. It's simple and does what I want, and that's just to move media around. Works flawlessly with the Palm Pre, heck, DVD Jon HAS a Pre. DoubleTwist Manages Your Pre Media, Freely, Easily, and Transparently

If you're hooked on iTunes, seriously, you need to get over that, there ARE fine replacements for it. People were listening to digital music long before the iPod ever came out. Unfortunately, Apple tricked a lot of people into thinking that they were paying for music and supporting the artists, but their intention obviously was to control the platform. Any company that would charge for media, but then block you from using it on the device you want to use that media on are not worth your time and money, and if you've been doing business with them, sorry, they've ripped you off. This is a fine example of how Apple is more dangerous than M$ ever was in regards to anti-competitive and anti-innovative behavior.