Slashdot Mirror

Remote controlled power strips, remote consoles (like RealWeasel or HP iLO), and so on mean remote PC management is almost as convenient as remote server management. It's not serial consoles, but it's workable.

.. which need an already loaded OS to work... so what if GRUB is fucked up for some reason and the USB driver is not loaded yet to operate the serial console?

In that case you want a PC Weasel card.
They come as either PCI or ISA and emulate a video bios to the machine so it will actually function (Without on-board video, or a video card, a major component of the boot code as part of the video bios will be missing)

http://www.realweasel.com/intro.html

It can emulate CGA character sets over a serial line.
It also has a cable out of it to connect to your ps2 keyboard jack.

In most cases, this card will let you run non-server hardware as if it was a server, with most of the bare-metal access you would expect.
If someone can drop an install CD in the drive, this card will let you connect to the machine over serial, send alt-control-delete to reboot, and perform a remote install of a text based OS.

The PCI version is $350, while the ISA version is $250.

The closest thing to a Consumer Desktop Remote Management card I've found is a "PC Weasel" which I saw back in 2000... http://www.realweasel.com/intro.html

That said, the website hasn't been updated since ~2000, it's expensive, but is the closest thing to what you're asking for, "Headless BIOS access" without going with real server hardware. Personally, I'd just keep a video card in the thing and hook it to a KVM switch... It's not going to pull that much extra power.

You seek PC Weasel.

http://www.realweasel.com/intro.html

Something like this: http://www.realweasel.com/pcivga.html

Looks to the computer like a text video card, but has an RS-232 interface instead of a VGA interface.

If you have some money to throw at it, here are a few solutions:

THE solution, that completely solves all your problems, is to get a serial video card: http://www.realweasel.com/ It emulates a VGA card, and spews out all the text over a serial port. As long as you never go into graphics mode, it's the whole solution.... But it's kind of expensive.

Second to that: Throw away the desktop motherboard. Buy a whitebox server motherboard (Tyan, SuperMicro, etc), and the BIOS will support serial access. ... But it's kind of expensive.

Next option: IP-KVM adapter. There are plenty of these available that plug into a VGA port and the PS2 keyboard port, and will let you control it via VNC or similar. Works great! But it's kind of expensive.

But personally, I think your entire premise is broken:

old P4 that is in fine working order

No, it's not. By pure virtue of being a P4, the performance per watt is miserable by current standards. It's fine if you just want to experiment, but if you want to actually have a server that you're running 24x7, THROW IT AWAY. I know this is hard to accept, but the fact is, you can buy either a low-power ITX motherboard with an Atom processor for around $70, which will do everything you need in a home server in under 20 watts at idle, or buy a current generation MicroATX motherboard + low end Phenom for about $150, which will draw somewhat less power and completely trounce the P4's performance.

Intro

PCI version exists, idea is that it emulates a VGA card and passes it via the serial.
Keyboard & Video supported through the card.
They have a demo to play with (or at least they did at one point).

The only major thing I can see against it: $350 for the PCI version. ($250 for ISA) on their order page (and the cert @ the order page seems to have expired)

The folks at RealWeasel have a cute little device. Plugs into a PCI slot and emulates a VGA card. It then outputs, over rs-232, a serial console approximation of whatever the system is displaying on the VGA device. Also has watchdog, manual reset, and keyboard functions. Those, plus a bog standard serial terminal server, and you are all set.

You missed out on the PC Weasel 2000, a useful-looking video card that speaks RS-232.

PC Weasel 2000: Making servers run headless since 1999

You *have* to see their logo.

Okay, maybe I'm a technological ignoramus, but when the guy in the article talks about IBM being able "to connect onto the till remotely and go onto the BIOS" I am a bit puzzled.

No magic behind the scenes. At work we have standard serial console servers that connect to com1. In the BIOS we set console redirection to the serial port. Enable that in Linux and viola, you can access the system from BIOS to the login prompt.

Is this possible with a normal PC motherboard? Or are they using some different type of system which provides hooks for the OS to do this?

I think this is done on most server targetted boards and a few home boards. There are also third party ways to do it on boards that do not natively support it such as with the PC Weasel:

http://www.realweasel.com/

Surprised more people aren't aware of the PC Weasel for remote server control. Those things can do stuff that mere mortals like myself would have thought impossible.

They're not exactly cheap, but they're worth every penny IMHO. No, I'm not affiliated with PC Weasel or a vendor or anything other than an incredibly satisfied customer.

A RAID controller with its own ethernet port and protocol stack all the way up to a telnet service? That is just stupid.

The right way to do this is either just get one of these or one of the many more expensive/featureful alternatives. Or better yet, just get a real server that has a real serial console (or if you run windows and/or have more money than brains, get some KVM over IP thing)...

A RAID controller with its own telnet service for remote access to the firmware... *shudder*...

The board appears to have a PCI slot. You should be able to add a PC Weasel 2000 board to it. From the PC Weasel web site:

The PC Weasel provides the answer by emulating a video board and keyboard and presenting a serial port to the outside world. Plugged into an available ISA or PCI slot, it takes the characters written by your CPU into its "video" memory and pumps them out its onboard RS-232 port. Characters input by you into the RS-232 port are converted into keyboard scan codes and presented to the motherboard's keyboard connector.

They're $350 USD (plus shipping) for the PCI model, but if you're using it in a datacenter, it's a real steal.

While there are neat devices out there that will connect to the video card and keyboard and conver it, such as the Real Weasel, i'd rather see the solution embedded in the existing BIOS infrastructure.

I think the key thing here is to remember what BIOS stands for, which is the Basic Input Output System. Something to talk to the "known" devices, such as Serial Port (not USB folks), int13h disks, video and keyboard.

The PC weasel logo is much more explicit (and funnier), and it does not seem to have harmed sales or perception.

Leave the poor Devil alone!

> I love all these answers about using distros
> configured to put the console on a serial tty
> when the submitter clearly described needing to
> be in the box before the POST splash is up.

So the reasonable solution is not to buy zillions of dollars worth of systems management cards but to buy machines with serial-capable BIOS. Dell's servers do this (the ones i buy anyway). If you want to make this happen for white-box motherboards you can use the PC Weasel: http://realweasel.com/

Assuming you want to use the Laptop as the client, you should check out the PC Weasel 2000.

It's pricey (i think), but it's still very cool.

I have never used the Real Weasel product (We use IP based serial access by Baytech). Real Weasel may do what you are looking for.

Baytech works great I recommend them if the cost is not too high.

Baytech's website is http://www.baytechdcd.com/

Real Weasel http://www.realweasel.com/intro.html

Our Windows servers are HP/Compaq. I think our Windows team can access them via the Lights Out controller/card but I could be wrong.

If you didn't need graphical capabilities, you could use the PC Weasel http://www.realweasel.com/, which is supposed to convert vga info into text (or something like that) and send it out over a serial port. Then use a null modem cable + a terminal program on your laptop to receive the data. Maybe that could work for your purposes.

this company makes hardware serial console cards for PCs. They're just PCI cards that emulate a VGA video card (text) and PS/2 keyboard. They also come with a remotely-triggerable pair of pins that you can hook up to the machine's reset connector. They'll get you into the BIOS, you can install an OS, etc... and they're only $350 which is quite cheap for this sort of thing in PC land.

(No, I am not affiliated with them in any way; I don't even use their products. I just always though their logo was very funny, is all.)

Try a PC Weasel - PC Weasel.

It is a PCI or ISA card that emulates a VGA video adaptor, with all video text output sent over a serial connection, and all text input presented to the PC as coming from a keyboard. It can even remotely reset a computer, and since it appears to the system as a normal video card, you can even edit the BIOS settings over a serial link.

It is a very cool hack, and even has open source firmware. It was mentioned on Slashdot a few years ago.

(not really an anonymous coward - just don't feel like creating an account right now)

If I may insert a plug here, my company has building a board for about four years that gives you exactly that access. It's called the PC Weasel, and you can get the full dope at http://www.realweasel.com/

Jonathan Levine
Middle Digital Inc.

What value is the manageability component if there's no supervisory CPU (a'la something like a PC Weasel ) so you can actually get to the management interface when your OS is hung in a bad way. Real computers have always had supervisory CPU's. I don't see why the PC world refuses to get it right.

If you need access to your US-based computer from China, you'd be much better off using VNC, X, MS Terminal Services, or another remote-console app, combined with a PC Weasel and serial terminal server if you need console access from boot.

The point of this system is to provide a console a few hundred feet away that is functionally equivalent to a console directly connected to the computer. It seems to perform that function adequately. It is not designed to provide halfway-around-the-world access; the products I mentioned are far better for that. Furthermore, it would be a bad idea to include IP functionality in this product: it would mean a significant increase in cost, while simply duplicating features that are mostly available through Free software running on the host machine. Sure, IP encapsulation on a device like this would be great. However, it is simply impossible from an engineering standpoint to make it work via IP without shooting the price into the stratosphere or requiring an insanely high-bandwidth link.

Try one of these with one of these. A $500/server solution... but it'll work. You could get a multiport serial ethernet server for a lower per-server cost.

Yeah, actually it does. The Dell ones we recently priced were $2000 each. As for the installation, interesting. Does it automatically find a server to install from and begin the installation or is human intervention required?

This isn't an anti-Sun flame... but there is a PC serial console card that costs $350: the PC Weasel.

It's not exactly cheap, but the PCWeasel 2000 will let you even see your PC's BIOS (and allow you to get into it) over serial, so you can run almost completely headless over serial. There's a cool demo of it over there as well.

But PC Weasel will do it just fine. VGA card that sends data out to its built-in serial port instead of a monitor, which allows you to view BIOS and pre-OS screens without a monitor.

This isn't at all what you want, but may work better for your purpose.

- a serial console capability

That's in .Net Server 2003. The purpose is really to support newer blade servers. But it requires hardware support. The reason Windows never supported this in the past is because the x86 design didn't. Try to get your POST info off the serial port with Linux on an x86 machine.

You can with a PC Weasel.

OmniView(TM) ENTERPRISE Series Remote IP Console
Belkin Part Number: F1DE101N

The Belkin Enterprise Series Remote IP Console (the Console) allows users to control, view, and administrate a server or multiple servers connected to a KVM switch remotely over a TCP/IP network. The Console enables the administrator to access the information stored on the servers, as well as to reset the hardware, access BIOS, and reset power. Unlike other KVM-over-IP solutions, the Console works with all PS/2-based servers and does not require additional software to support multiple operating systems. The Console uses the banking industry's 128-bit SSL encryption to prevent unauthorized personnel from accessing the server. Offering the easiest installation and setup in the industry, the Console monitors server activities and notifies administrators if and when problems arise. Its advanced capabilities far surpass current methods of remote server administration.

The Belkin Advantage:

• Remote control of a server or KVM switch over a TCP/IP network
• VGA Video Emulation (even with power off)
• Remote power on/off or server-reset capability
• Standard web browser remote viewing
• Support for VNC (Virtual Network Computing) remote display
• 128-bit SSL encryption with three security levels and three security modes: Relaxed, Stealth, and Turtle
• Support for up to 10 users

Features:

• Serial port monitoring and switching capability for serial devices
• Flash-Upgradeability
• PS/2 keyboard and mouse support
• One local port for direct KVM access to your server
• Automatic server monitoring and notification

See also http://www.kvmswitchoverip.com/ and http://www.kvm-switches-online.com/remote-access-s ervers.html for other solutions. I think these guys both have Raritans which haven't been mentioned yet.

Nothing low-end, though, you'll have to roll your own with a PC Weasel ($250-$250/server) and a remote machine you can SSL to and then use as a serial terminal for the PC Weasels. You'd need a multi-port COM card for the SSL box as well, and you'll have to disable any onboard video to let the weasel control the servers.

Even better is the model shown in their Haberdashery... That's the model *I* want :)

Dell and other companies come with their own similar solutions - add on boards that allow powering off the server. There are some nice links off of the realweasel site to other places with similar devices.

Otherwise, buy Sun or any other hardware platform that comes with serial console standard.

how about this (two sources): http://www.bsdmall.com/console.html,
http://www.realweasel.com/pcivga.html.

Check out the PC Weasel: PCWeasel. It replaces the video card and allows you to monitor the BIOS startup over a serial port. It won't help after the machine switches to a graphics mode, but at that point you could use VNC, SSH or other stuff. BIOS is the hard thing to monitor on a PC, and the PC Weasel does it. Plus it's somewhat cheap: $350 for the card.

As I said in a previous message, PC Weasels. You'll never need to be physically near the machine again. They're beautiful.

KVM switches are okay if you're just trying to avoid having more than one monitor for a couple of boxes you sit in front of, but they suck for managing a lot of hosts in real production work. I find that using a PC Weasel and a terminal server works a lot better than a KVM switch for remote management of Unix boxes running on PC hardware. KVM switches are okay some of the time, but PC Weasels rock!

http://www.realweasel.com/ might be what you're looking for.

Also, Dell's hardware is pretty good. you can get remote management boards for them as well, which allow dialin and let you see bios info, but it's still not OpenBoot PROM. Even so, if i were the original poster i'd wanna get a Dell 1650, put OpenBSD on it and forget it. Sun hardware/software is great for big servers and/or the specialized application, but for small webserving i prefer x86 w/ *bsd or linux (depending on *exact* application).

Another point I'd make is that since sun stopped supporting solaris x86,

they're supposed to be releasing Solaris 9 for x86. there was a /. article about it not too long ago.

I've moved some of my home machines to linux and subscribed to the redhat network. Wow, a lot of things sure got a lot easier. Many services that you would have to install manually on a solaris machine were already there.

9 is also supposed to include openssh (finally!)

also, installing patches on Solaris isn't all that tough. the whole patchdiag process can be easily automated. up2date is *real* easy, but since i'm more used to OpenBSD patching, sometimes i think it's too easy ;-)

Obscure packages could easily be found and installed, which isn't always the case with solaris

that's true. lots of packages are available, though. ibiblio is helpful, as are other websites, for packages. by the way, anyone know where i can get a Falcon's Eye rpm for RH 7.X?

Check out PC Weasel. It's a VGA/MDA emulator board that adds a remote-control serial port, just like Alphaservers and other serious server boxen. You just throw this thing into a spare ISA or PCI slot and use your favorite terminal software to talk to it on the serial port. I've worked with them in the past and they work great, no quirks whatsoever.

Not a customer of real weasel, but try them with RH install scripts plus a boot PROM. Should do the trick. Just remember to check for a pre-existing install of RH before installation, or you'll wipe out your install at every boot.

(Sorry if this is a repeat. Just had some browser weirdness)

It is an ISA or now a PCI card that does pretty much the same, and you telnet to it. It emulates a video card, has cables to connect the keyboard and to the power button header on your motherboard.

I would even be ecstatic the day that I can boot an x86 server without video :)

Prepare to be ecstatic: PC Weasel 2000

My favorite place for risers is Barada In Canada. The seem to have a fairly large selection of pci and isa risers. However, I didn't see any ISA risers under 2.4 inches tall, but some of the PCI risers (even old Pentium boards should support these) are very small.

Of course, if your case doesn't like side-ways cards, you will need to take your Dremel to it or come up with some other way to hack it together.

All of this is assuming that you are going to need the video output from your low profile setup. If you don't need a direct monitor feed from the box, I would highly recommend The Weasel and an extra serial port on another machine. If you read Japanese and have a currency converter handy, you can check out the product page on their distributor's site.

Perhaps you could share your design with use (the case in particular) so that we don't have to guess at your setup?

Uh, Intel boxes can do serial consoles either with a PC Weasel, or a mobo supporting it.

Just a small note: ever since the 7500/8500/9500 model PowerMacs, all of Apple's computers have used the IEEE 1275 "Open Firmware" firmware architecture. Sun also uses this, branded as OpenBoot, and I believe IBM uses it in their POWER4 servers as well. It's not custom in the least.

It's always been a complete mystery to me why PC vendors didn't implement OpenBoot, since it's inexpensive,open, and provides many of the functions that you currently need to buy expensive hardware dongles to get on PCs.

(Preemptive note to moderators: realweasel.com really is a hardware site.)

Intel ISP1100 - a nice 1U chassis+motherboard, designed to run headless (with serial-console support). I don't remember exactly how much you can control over the serial port (e.g. I don't remember if you can power it on/off or reset it, like you can on some of the HP kit), but it does give you access to the BIOS.

Note that it's a bit noisy, so if it's going to be a "home server" you probably want to put it in the basement.

Or you could just slap a "PC Weasel" card into a regular server, and get console redirection over RS-232. [Note: despite the name, this is a real company and product AFAIK. No relation to www.realhamster.com.]

You just need one of these. Despite the site name, this isn't a troll - the PC Weasel is an ISA or PCI card that provides serial access to any BIOS. I think this was on Slashdot sometime before, actually....

Check out PC Weasel. It is a card that emulates a MDA but pipes the output over serial. With this you can run your system headless, and still be able to get into the BIOS.

The Real Weasel Does.
--