An anonymous reader asks:
"I've been looking for a cost effective (ie, cheap) way to remotely administer several servers running a variety of OS's, and would like to have a solution that would allow for monitoring of the bios on startup, etc (ie, not VNC). The most appealing solution is KVM over IP, which really just means a souped up KVM switch with something like VNC running on it, unfortunately all of the solutions I've been able to find are more expensive than I can justify spending. I've played around a bit with making my own Poor man's KVM over IP; I did this by purchasing a cheap (sub $50) VGA-to-NTSC convertor, then feeding it into a video card with NTSC input (the ATI All-In-Wonder Radion), and then by logging into a machine running Windows Terminal Services I'm able to watch the reboot process. Of course, this doesn't address the mouse/keyboard issue, and the quality isn't all that great. What I'm hoping is that someone else might have a suggestion on how to do this, preferably using Linux and the least hardware necessary. Does anyone have any suggestions or insights on ways to do this?" There are pre-existing solutions, but it seems they are all kind of pricey. Can any of you suggest cheap solutions (at or below $500USD) that could handle a farm of 5-10 machines?
"Here are the three approaches I found:
ViewProxy:
They make the most economical for administration of multiple machines (by one person). Their ProxyView device plugs into your KVM just like it was a monitor/mouse/keyboard, and then does all the packetizing magic. Price is about $6k from what I can tell.
eRIC:
These are the same guys who make the Rolf (Reboot on Lan), which is pretty cool. They make a card called Eric which replaces your normal video card with their card, which has a built in ethernet connection and allows remote control. The cheapest solution at about $700 but only would allow control of the machine it's installed in.
Avocent: I think the first to introduce the whole KVM over IP solution, they have KVM's with this sort of functionality integrated. Some of their products allow multiple users to multiple machine, which is a neat feature but not needed for my applications. Their units run from $4k on up."
Slashdot Mirror
Use GRACE from the earlier article and tell her to manage the computers.. only problem is that she might budge in your CS games.
heh
fp
I didn't want to post this because ssh works well for me but I gues if you use Windows you need something like this.
Pants are optional, but recomended for you.
It doesn't crash all the time like Linux, so you don't have to worry about all that nonsense. :-P
What kinda bandwidth are we talking to transmit say a 1024x768x256 colors (to save bandwidth) screen at a decent frame rate? Hope you have Gigabit Ethernet to run this decently!
Just get Grace to type and show you with a webcam? She can probably navigate to the various displays, press the KVM buttons, etc. YOu may have to do some hardware upgrades...
http://www.realweasel.com/intro.html
There's a giant need for this, cheaper. If someone can come up with a 1U KVM over IP box under $2000 USD they'd make a killing in the SME market.
Luck favors the prepared, darling.
5 monitors, 5 keyboards, 5 mice
price: $200.
MARIJUANA, SHROOMS, X: ONLINE?! - E
Oh yeah...now I remember...I "rebooted" last month. Never again. Am I the only one that thinks watching a boot process is a once-in-a-box's-lifetime experience?
Many newer motherboards support BIOS redirection over the serial port. All of my systems (intel 440gx) supports this. It allows full remote BIOS configuration, etc. Used in conjuction with linux's serial console and sysrq over serial I find the solution works quite well.
- U
www.realweasel.com
makes a card that allows for this... but i havent looked at their product in over a year now - so it might even have greater functionality than last time I looked...
but it allowed for bios monitoring etc...
and you can test one of their cards out from their site. (used to be over telnet)
this link (which slashdot will probably munge: http://cyberguys.com/cgi-bin/sgin0101.exe?UID=2002 080514403159&GEN6=00&GEN9=5CG01&FNM=00&T1=104+1150 &UREQA=1&UREQB=2&UREQC=3&UREQD=4
or else try product # 104 1150 on http://www.cyberguys.com
it's a KVM "extender" that works over cat 5 for 500 feet. i don't know who makes it, but the cyberguys catalog had it. this plus a KVM switch on each end of your setup might be enable you to do what you want...
- Entertaining Bits from the Ancient Kernel Tree
Logitech USB camera connected to another box and this keyboard signal producing box. I dont remember what, but you could send a character to its input via serial and it would send that char into another computer's keyboard.
Check out the PC Weasel: PCWeasel. It replaces the video card and allows you to monitor the BIOS startup over a serial port. It won't help after the machine switches to a graphics mode, but at that point you could use VNC, SSH or other stuff. BIOS is the hard thing to monitor on a PC, and the PC Weasel does it. Plus it's somewhat cheap: $350 for the card.
how about this (two sources): http://www.bsdmall.com/console.html,
http://www.realweasel.com/pcivga.html.
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Raritan has some nice CAT5 based KVM solutions, that work terribly well in scaling between small and large environments. However I think the price may be a bit higher then you were hoping.
Check out Raritan. They have a wide range of such products. Not sure about prices though.
"I'd rather have a full bottle in front of me than a full frontal lobotomy"
Umm...how about a serial console for the bios, then just redisplaying X for the gui...via just redisplaying it from unix to unix, or using vnc to see it in windows (or using an X client on windows, like Exceed). I mean...surely you can't be serious. Serial consoles have been around for like, eons. Even if you just use a digiboard so you can connect a bunch of com1's up to serial ports on a single system, that would work. on post, you don't typically have umm...you know...an ip. But through com1, you can do most everything.
Dell and other companies come with their own similar solutions - add on boards that allow powering off the server. There are some nice links off of the realweasel site to other places with similar devices.
Otherwise, buy Sun or any other hardware platform that comes with serial console standard.
-f
www.blackant.net
You want www.realweasel.com, and the PC Weasel 2000.
It's open source, it's got a picture of a weasel with an axe standing next to headless (bleeding) Linux Tux and BSD Beastie, and it's from a company called Middle Digital Incorporated. You have to support that if you're a true geek.
You cannot apply a technological solution to a sociological problem. (Edwards' Law)
A pair of Nikes cost less than $500 (but only just). That's about as close as you're gonna get.
This probably isn't exactly what you were looking for, but I would consider and maybe request an eval of VMware GSX Server or maybe even ESX Server. Both let you monitor the virtual machine over IP -- in fact, there's even a web-based administration interface. And, of course, you can watch BSODs as they happen, hit the reset button using your toolbar, and go into the BIOS setup utility remotely.
Neither is cheap (GSX is the cheaper of the two and runs $3500, $1600 academic) but if you can consolidate your boxes into one big box it might be worth it. After all, it's always good to centralize your points of failure, right?
Big thumbs up for VMware.
Why would you need to monitor the BIOS on startup? What's that going to do for you?
But given that non-PC hardware is probably not an option for you, then consider something like the RealWeasel, although I've heard mixed reports about it from those that have tried it. The online demo looks like it should at least be usable, though.
"The invisible and the non-existent look very much alike." -- Delos B. McKown
I know it wont work for windows boxes, but for the linux machines just compile-in support for console over standard serial, run the lines into a multiport serial card (~$50), and ssh into that box to access the servers.
How about putting cheapo tvout cards in all the servers, and connecting them all to a dedicated pc that has like 5 bt878 capture cards. (short svideo cables)
That'll let you see the whole boot process including doing bios stuff.
Then run ffserver (ffmpeg, or maybe ffpegrec which is part of nvrec) on this gateway machine to encode and serve up divx5 video streams.
You can add security with freeswan and certificates if you like.
This can all be done using linux fairly easily. The major drawback would be the limit on PCI slots for capture cards. There are cheap Viewcast cards that have 3 inputs you can switch between so you could get at least 15 channels.(just not all at the same time)
You'd need a control channel aswell i guess.. maybe you could get a keyboard switch and write a little script to let you pipe your keyboard actions to whichever machine you want.
..please reboot the clue server?
KVM over IP is going to be costly into the near future. This isn't exactly commodity hardware, so it may stay high for a looong time.
You may want to consider an alternative approach (which is what I have been doing ever since the remote KVM sticker shock faded) which obviates the need for a remote KVM at all.
For example:
1. All systems boot from custom CD-R (good for security too) which then boots the remainder off a network drive or perhaps hdd.
2. Remote power cycling (cheap, $100 for 8 ports you can controll over IP) is used to power cycle one or more machines to force a reboot.
3. If you need to reimage the OS, simply replace the OS stored on the boot server, or have the CDROM boot image reimage remotely when given a specific trigger (this is the area wide open for all kinds of solutions. Luckily, all software based using linux and cheap CDR's, network filesytems, etc)
This still has a number of drawbacks. If the machine doesnt come back, there is no remote KVM access to tell you what the bios is complaigning about (bad disk?).
The bootup process is cumbersome. I.e. you need to always boot from CDR to be able to reimage a system later (dedicated hosting) and such.
Not cheap at $3500, but better than the non-video card solutions mentioned...
Kaveman from Digital V6
They also have models with integrated KVM's for more, but I didn't inquire about the price of those, and they don't put prices on their web page.
Another poster pointed me in this direction....
1. Get a weasle card for each server you have.
2. Get a Clysdale terminal server, or plug the serial into a Linux box and ssh to that system and use minicom....
This may or may not work for windows. Windows won't let you use the weasle as primary video, but if you can add an AGP card to the system for windows and the weasle card for BIOS.... Make sure winblows gets the primary display setup for the AGP card....
This is pure conjecture and you are responsible for any purchases and headaches caused by the preceeding!
We use VNC here at work over 10/100 at those specs with no issue whatsoever. Hell, I use IBM's Desktop on Call over a 56k Connection without any fuss. Your issue is a non-issue.
I'm a writer, a poet, a genius, I know it. I don't buy software, I grow it.
Cost: box ($100 refurbushed from tiger direct), usb->ethernet ($40), and a little bit of time...
WrightLine was selling Avocents for a while. They were expensive and required a server and client component in addition to the hardware, but were real slick -- total KVM over IP.
They even had software tools to re-sample a big display (eg, 1600x1200) down to a more managable size (eg, 1024x768) without losing usability.
They lost me due to (1) licensing costs for the management client based on per-machine, (2) it was real dodgy whether it was usable on a DSL-type broadband connection, (3) it was REAL expensive, even if you "waved" the extra client licensing costs (as the salesdude suggested I do).
I hope this kind of tech becomes more common and cheaper to do; it looked like a hardware-based video capture engine and a client application to decompress the video.
http://www.minicom.com/specter.htm
But IF I don't get modded to hell, does anyone want to make a reccomendation on a cheap regular kvm switch?
1q2w3e4r5t6y7u8i9o0pqawsedrftgthyjukilo;p'azsxdcf
Real computers have a boot prom.
See Sun, SGI, DEC, any of the classic workstation vendors. Hell, Apple's.
Or realweasel or compaq's stuff. CMon, this isn't hard, it's basic computer science.
Somewhere on the net I heard about a PCI VGA card... that isn't one. It *emulates* a VGA card but actually has a serial port. http://www.bsdmall.com/console.html. It's not *quite* under your price point, but it's pretty close.
Or hire a bunch of peons with digital cameras to
watch the computer boot up and give you the play-by-play over the telephone and email the photos to you over a secure channel. Also, make sure that you get a Micro$erf ^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H peon which can type.
Links are created this way on goatdot: <A HREF="http://www.goatse.cx/">Click for the article!!</A>
Oh shit I spelled "article" correctly. Change it to "articel". This is crapdot after all...
what i do at work is we have motherboards that allow serial connects to see the bios and controll it, so we use the kernel option for serial console in linux and get one machine with a lot of serial cards in it .. we ssh into that box and then run minicom and we have a profile for every server so its a simple as minicom servername , although we do use ssh when we can, the serial is just a fall back , as an add bonus, routers and other apliances with serial connect just fine
... but i never needed to find out)
most (all ) intel serverboards support serial (i know its not AMD but hey, i dont make all the choices) and if you have windows you can just call back to vnc when the logon screen comes up (you can do that right, i remeber someone saying that you cant run stuff while loggin it
-rev
On a related note, has anyone found an inexpensive terminal server that can be used for remote administration. I have looked and found only expensive ones. Maybe one really cheap Linux box could be turned into a terminal server for another. Anyone have any experience with this?
Take n number of the KVM extenders over cat 5. Plug into ethernet switch (I don't mean the Cisco type of switch. The kind with a switch in front for selecting from n number of inputs. They make them for parallel ports too so you can easily switch between printers). Plug however many devices into switch. In the single output cable, attach other end of KVM cat5 extender and then run cable to terminal. It would be awesome if this worked, but it's possible that the switching device would mangle things up or reduce quality etc. Not quite KVM over IP but its really really cheap if you can get it to work Luck
But I still dream about card which looks to PC like *GA, but has onboard hardware to run VNC (3D can sacrificed). Near optional VGA output and required ethernet socjet it should also have connector(s) for short cables going to mouse/keyboard or usb socets.
Does anybody know good development kit to start this project?
We have the same problem here. We have a number of Linux and Windows servers running on Compaq and HP Intel servers. Trick is, they are in Denver, CO and I am in Dublin, OH.
For the older systems, we use the DSView from Avocent. At $5k a pop, they are nice to have, but hard to buy.
The newer Comapaq systems have the Remote Insight boards, which are pretty nice. The even newer ones have the Remote Insight built in, so it doesn't use up a PCI slot
None of this helps you, though. I did once see a solution that ran PCAnywhere on a PC with custom hardware to plug into a KVM switch, it was about $4k.
If you hardware developers are listening, please know that there would indeed be a huge market for a $2000 12 or 24-port KVM-over-IP solution, as more companies outsource support, co-loc their servers, of built remote POP's. I would love to see one.
Disclaimer: I work for AMI on the MegaRAC-G2
:)
That said, the MegaRAC-G2 sounds similar to what you want. It's not really a KVM switch (although you might see one from us in the future), but it is a great remote access card. It does very fast video redirection (10-15 fps) of the server's native display - which means it works on the console, in bios, in X, Windows, whatever. It redirects the client's keyboard/mouse activity, and even cdrom and floppy drives if you want.
It does a lot of other cool stuff too, check out the website: http://www.ami.com/megarac/
Oh yeah, and the card runs linux, and requires no drivers on the server.
Andrew
I just picked up a few Compaq Remote Insight boards on ebay for about nine dollars each. Seems to be a good system as it allows remote power on and access even after a power outage thanks ot a battary backup.
"Have you ever thought about just turning off the TV, sitting down with your kids, and hitting them?"
Try using a VersaPoint RF Wireless Keyboard, a 900 Mhz RF signal booster on each end, a local computer with a KVM attached, and a webcam. If you don't need quite that much range, just run long cables with signal amplifiers every 100ft or so.
this 'solution' completely ignores the poster's request - how to do this REMOTELY
I've gotten used to seeing posts from people that didn't read an article being linked to, but this is getting absurd!
http://www.wti.com/cms8.htm
It's a little pricier ($995), but if you couple this bad boy with a RealWeasel card in each box, you have an end-to-end solution to make a geek proud.
(it's also Sun ready, for your non-PC needs)
http://makeashorterlink.com/
Namely this: There are two ways to do things: The right way, and the Slashdot way.
The Right Way involves spending a little more money up front, but its benefits are manyfold: A proven solution, vendor support, reliability, stability, and various and sundry other good things.
The Slashdot Way involves duct tape, bailing wire, and, sometimes, a 386 running RedHat. Its generally insignificant up-front savings are offset by the countless hours of configuration, tuning, tweaking, prodding, poking, and general lackluster performance of the contraption in question.
You have chosen to go The Slashdot Route. I wish you luck as you set up your TV cards and serial ports. You will need as much luck as you can get, and an awful lot of patience.
- A.P.
"Remember when the U.S. had a drug problem, and then we declared a War On Drugs, and now you can't buy drugs anymore?"
BlackBox has a line of ethernet KVM extenders that can be used with other BlackBox KVM solutions.
Blackbox Ethernet KVM Equipment
Forgive the javascript errors, this was the only way to link to that exact page on the blackbox site.
We totally solved this by using IP-to-serial concentrators which makes every host's serial console reachable via telnet. The only limitation, of course, is not being able to see BIOS messages when using cheap PC hardware. Better PC hardware like Intel server boards lets you see the BIOS on the serial port. Naturally all the major Unix systems already do this. If you're using Windows, well, driving into work to fix your machine is the price you pay for the "convenience" of Windows.
Kris
Kriston
Dell sells these cards with some of their servers. They will allow you to do pretty much what you have said. I don't know if they require any special connections but you could look into it.
"The Dell Remote Assistant Card is part of Dell's Open Manage program. DRAC offers "dead" server manageability via network or modem/remote access. This card allows you to access, diagnose and remotely manage your server regardless of its state."
- CERN management fabric, Jan 2001
- VA cluster manager for Intel boards with EMP
- Serial-to-network proxy
- Serial console howto
- Assorted switching gear
Rich--
SF Bay Area Colocation
The Slashdot Way involves duct tape, bailing wire, and, sometimes, a 386 running RedHat.
Dude, you're way wrong. Pentium 166's are now the preferred GNU/Linux "rescued from the garbage heap" platforms for these applications. And you've got the sometimes in the wrong place. It always involves Linux, although not necessarily RedHat. Duct tape and bailing wire are in the sometimes used category.
[Disclaimer: this is not a serious post, and I don't usually talk or type this way.)
A simple (and cheap solution). Install a few quickcams and set them up on different webcam sites. Bandwidth requiremnts are within what DSL will give you.
Input can be handled by a normal switch, remote controlled via ethernet.
Just when my 3M stock was on the rebound you go and try to pull the plug on the whole duct tape and bailing wire industry!
"If the women don't find you handsome, they should at least find you handy."
- Red Green
There is a linuxbios project (http://www.linuxbios.org) that probably could do serial redirection.
The problem is that the number of motherboards they support is very narrow. But it's definitely something to look at later on.
As a previous poster said, if you want to do remote admining you should probably get Sun boxes unless you're managing a linux farm or something then you could probably get newer motherboards that allow you to do bios through the serial line.
But check out linuxbios I bet that could help right there without all that wierd hardware you're doing.
sri
KVM over CAT-5 is NOT the same as KVM over IP. Same goes for some of the serial solutions mentioned here. Also, a whole bunch of monitors, mice and keyboards won't help if the servers are remote to the user. I have LOTS of experience setting up KVM systems, including KVM over IP. A good solution would be to try and find an Apex/Cybex (now Avocent) Emerge or Emerge 2000 or I-Link card on eBay along with an 8-port Outlook switch. Of course, the Emerge or I-Link system would have to run Windows, but the remotely controlled systems could run anything. The Emerge 2000 was a rebranded Acer PII/400. It wasn't fast, but that's because back then, Apex (who made this particular product) insisted on doing full-screen refresh. They have since changed their minds with the DS product line. We used the Emerge for emergencies, and VNC and ssh for day-today work. And $500 for a new solution, cobbled together or not, is unrealistic. You have to consider cost per port (server). It's interesting that the Dell DRAC/Compaq RIB solution comes out to about the same price per port as a KVM over IP solution. IF you just want KVM over CAT5, you could go with minicom, avocent, raritan, or plenty others.
Buy Compaq (I mean HP!) servers and add the Remote Lights Out board. It works very well and their new servers have them built-in. You get BIOS level control with full remote access via a web browser.
Well couldn't you take it up to the software level and run some sort of MetaFrame, or Terminal Server style service on each of the boxes then use an ICA or Remote Desktop Client to login? The nice part is, just drop a VPN server in front of it, and you can connect from anywhere in the world. :oP
We have a semi-large farm of Windose Boxen at a lights-out colo (Frontend application servers to most of the UNIX boxen). We just picked up the Rose Electronics Ultralink for remote management. We need this so we can do remote diags, like troubleshoot hardware, view POST, etc. We have Cyclades for the *NIX boxen, and our HP Netservers have the serial 'management' console that other people are boasting about, but that just won't cut it in a real-world production environment. A Console is a Console and a serial port is a serial port.
.99a ... we had to wait about 2 months to get it, and we must have been the first guinea pig to take shipment. I'm afraid to open it up to see if there is about 35 feet of spaghetti-wire patches.
We're going to plug the Ultralink into our cascaded KVM tree and hope for the best. Initially looking at the unit, I have some gripes:
* No distributed authentication. It's gotta be local accounts. Can't hit my LDAP, NIS, NT Domain, or RADIUS servers.
* Client is a proprietary Win32 app. No JAVA, no browser. Cripes, not even ActiveX!
* Only one user at a time... including console. You have to log into the console to gain access (crappy for CEs out to fix a problem), and if the CE stays logged in, guess what? You can't access it remotely! We had to plug it into our intelligent PDU so we could remotely hard boot it if that happened.
* We have what must be version
Aside from these (minor) flaws, I think we'll be OK. Anything is better than booking a last-minute 606 mile flight to reboot a Windows box that shows 'It is now safe to power off your computer' because PCNowhere admin chose the wrong logoff choice. [don't laugh] (Although, there is Buckhead...)
How often do you really need "true console" access on a box that has no network connectivity?
I've found that having the ability to remote power cycle (preferably through an interface -- but an ISP that can get someone to the box fast can do in a $ pinch) + some remote network admin tools (VNC, Terminal Services, Telnet/SSH, etc etc) goes a *long* way.
Yes, once in a while the box crashes *so* hard that Terminal services/VNC (assuming a Windows platform) becomes useless -- time for a reboot! The only way that you can really screw yoursel is if you mess with the network settings and configure yourself off the network.
Rather than spend $$$s for that possibility, why not just pick up the phone and call some hands-on support (or if it is your datacenter.. send in the geeks)...?? If you know you are going to be messing with "dangerous" settings, you should be prepared for these sorts of possibilities anyways..
Just my $.02...
Evolution: love it or leave it
Cheap KVM Over IP?
Posted by Cliff on Monday August 05, @05:43PM
from the throwing-that-noisy-box-into-the-other-room! dept.
An anonymous reader asks: "I've been looking for a cost effective (ie, cheap) way to remotely administer several servers running a variety of OS's, and would like to have a solution that would allow for monitoring of the bios on startup, etc (ie, not VNC). The most appealing solution is KVM over IP, which really just means a souped up KVM switch with something like VNC running on it, unfortunately all of the solutions I've been able to find are more expensive than I can justify spending. I've played around a bit with making my own Poor man's KVM over IP; I did this by purchasing a cheap (sub $50) VGA-to-NTSC convertor, then feeding it into a video card with NTSC input (the ATI All-In-Wonder Radion), and then by logging into a machine running Windows Terminal Services I'm able to watch the reboot process. Of course, this doesn't address the mouse/keyboard issue, and the quality isn't all that great. What I'm hoping is that someone else might have a suggestion on how to do this, preferably using Linux and the least hardware necessary. Does anyone have any suggestions or insights on ways to do this?" There are pre-existing solutions, but it seems they are all kind of pricey. Can any of you suggest cheap solutions (at or below $500USD) that could handle a farm of 5-10 machines?
"Here are the three approaches I found:
ViewProxy: They make the most economical for administration of multiple machines (by one person). Their ProxyView device plugs into your KVM just like it was a monitor/mouse/keyboard, and then does all the packetizing magic. Price is about $6k from what I can tell.
eRIC: These are the same guys who make the Rolf (Reboot on Lan), which is pretty cool. They make a card called Eric which replaces your normal video card with their card, which has a built in ethernet connection and allows remote control. The cheapest solution at about $700 but only would allow control of the machine it's installed in.
Avocent: I think the first to introduce the whole KVM over IP solution, they have KVM's with this sort of functionality integrated. Some of their products allow multiple users to multiple machine, which is a neat feature but not needed for my applications. Their units run from $4k on up."
If you're satisfied with your current solution for monitoring the bios, why not just add VNC (or something similar)? Monitor the bios with your current setup during bootup, then switch to VNC once that's done.
Belkin
Lots of great products for all budgets.
I've started small and built on my setup over the years. Finally needed to move away from the humming mass of metal and electricity.
OmniView(TM) SOHO Series 4-Port KVM and a OmniView(TM) CAT5 KVM Extender. Setup was able to switch between four computers well. Great picture and never had a problem with keyboard and mouse (PS/2 or USB) at distances past 200 meters. Windows, linux, BSD, whatever...
Total setup was $498US.
Not the cheapest, but so what.
We've had great experience with Comtrol RocketPorts.. (go find the url yerself!)
one PCI slot is good for 32 serial ports.
of course, that involves buying 2 1u rackmount dealy-bobs.
then we use conserver (www.conserver.com i think).
it rawks.
At my old company, we used cyclades Z-boards with conserver. same shit, different channel. The nice feature about Cyclades was that you can daisy chain the zboards, so you can get like 128 serial ports from 1 pci slot.
and of course, you need newer intel boards with the serial bios crap, or again... SUN.
None of this helps you since you seem like you probably can't shell out $$$ for this stuff.
I can't wait until I can get my linux console over USB. then it's all done. just daisy chain the machines together, and go.
-- Spankmeister General
KVM over IP: X11
Secure KVM over IP: ssh -x
Windows compatible hack: vnc
If you have the option of picking a particular piece of hardware, Compaq/HP has the Compaq remote insight board.
This is a full computer on a PCI card, which has its own power feed with battery backup, 1 Ethernet IF, an optional 56K modem, and full hardware-level access to the input keyboard/mouse and video display.
The card runs a propriatary OS, and includes telnet and SSL-based access supporting full console UI through a basic, Java-enabled browser.
I don't know as if it will run in non-server class box3n, but I just picked up a Proliant 330 that at about $1k, is for all intents and purposes a really a basic x86 with server class chassis layout, etc.
Backorifice. Works with trojans, but also good for remote administration of windows. Secure? Ha!
Seeing as he runs windows, this is probably a good guess.
___
If you think big enough, you'll never have to do it.
Look into Cybex equipment. It is not IP, but does run over cat5 cable. Re-routes KVM for remote stations to central client. Some peices can be found cheap on the net.
Dom
This was the best solution I found, a year ago. At the time it was $2500 - now, it seems to sell for around $1000 at some retailers.
This is a PCI card that takes video input and sends keyboard and mouse out - perfect for connecting to the console of any KVM. We got a cheap 1U NT server, put this card in the single PCI slot it came with, and ran VNC on it. It worked beautifully.
More info at Avocent's website, under "Emerge card".
-Elentar
The wheel it turns, around and around, with an ancient rumbling sound.
I know this will work because I've done it. If you know assembly you could easily program a pic and wire it into your serial port or usb then wire the out to a ps2 port in the kvm switch. Total cost maybe $10 to $30. Depending on exactly how complicated you want it and what you already own.
If your not cheating your not trying. If your not trying your not winning and if your not winning why play?
which is more than most of the "buy it off the shelf" people often have. The advantages to experimentation are many. While time savings is probably not one of them (at least in the short run) by the time the project is done, the experimenter has a better idea of how to go about getting things done than the buy-it-off-the-shelf guy.
A few years down the road and most of us will want to hire the experimenter who has tried several different OSes, hacked out a wireless network out of a couple 2-meter transceivers, set up two 486 DX66 boxes as a dedicated VPN between his bedroom and his girlfriend's house, and wired up the girl's locker room with x10. Those are the guys who can think their way through a problem rather than hitting the catalogs looking for a million dollar solution.
No one ever had to evacuate a city because the solar panels broke!
I was thinking about doing this a long time ago but given my soldering skills i haven't.. I had the same idea for the video interface but I wanted to construct a serial to ps/2 cable to control the mouse/kb .. i figured i would have to write a program to do this (actually capable of this part) but would then incorporate the video in with it. any thoughts?
Love their attitude:
"What sucks." "How we fixed it." "Why we're swell." "Asses saved."
Serial redirect (in BIOS a la Intel 440GX, PC Weasel and Sun (in a slightly more powerful way)) IS NOT WHAT HE ASKING FOR. KVM is a totally transpearent remote way to access any system operation including GUI graphics (which the Sun-o-phile seems not to have grasped).
Serial redriection via terminal servers IS A SUBSET of what you can do with KVM.
I was under the impression TROLLAXOR was dead! This is indeed good news that he is in fact alive.
i got your microserf right here
I'm not sure of the price of these units but 2C Computing makes something close to what you are looking for. http://www.2ccomputing.com/ Just a note, 2C Computing Just announced that they are being acquired by Avocent.
Zoid.com
I am not sure if you are doing this for work or not. But you may want to keep in mind while looking at all these solutions even if the hardware cost under $50 to make a portible switch how much time will it take you. Lets assume you are making $25 an hour so if it takes 2 more hours to configure the hardware then that is an aditional $50. Of couse the cheaper the hardware solution the more time it will probably take to put it together. So if you spend a Week tring to get this to work you are probably wasing more money then it would have cost to bye a KVM switch.
If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
we use the Remote Insight Board lights out edition - for remote management of proliant servers..I belive it retails for around 500 bucks. But each server needs its own card.
I think you're also missing the point. Any solution that you do come up with is going to be a hack. You run the risk of it failing when you need it the most (this might be acceptable based on your requirements). Choose the right solution to solve your problems. If you need boxes with remote administration, then buy the big boys UNIX systems. I can't tell you how many times PC-Nowhere has failed. If you application requires Windows then find the best hack you can get.
This topic already came up on Friday. See my poorly formatted response there.
I've been checking the prices and availability of KVM over IP for about 4 or 5 months. The number of vendors and products has doubled and prices have dropped somewhat. I've got a deadline to purchase one by end of Q3, so I'll wait and watch the market a bit longer.
Such devices are very practical, especially when combined with remote power cycling functionality. (Digital V6 makes an all-in-one unit).
This is the best available solution I have heard so far.
Black holes are where the Matrix raised SIGFPE
I know it's not exactly what the poster asked for, but I was in the same boat about 6 months ago and you can at least step through my thought processes.
Article linked here.
It seems to me that you might be able to replace your PC's BIOS with a replacement BIOS from Red Hat. They have the Redboot BIOS that supports ethernet and serial interfaces at the BIOS level.
If it weren't for adventurous spirits who are willing innovate a home made solution, the computer industry would never have gotten as far as it has, or be going in such interesting and potentially rewarding directions.
/. fan) when the innevitable problems occur. And the rest of us suffer greatly for it. I wouldn't pay someone any more than minimum wage to do things the 'Real' way.
The 'Real' way actually amounts to mundane unimaginative and stagnant. At worst it amounts to millions of servers on an IP near you being adminstrated by lazy incompetant boobs, who don't know any better than to call a 'Real' technician (read
BB -Guanno
A Cisco 2512 has an ethernet port and 16 serial ports, and they are available used for less than $400. To access a system, you telnet to port 200x, where x = the serial port you want to connect to. Here's one on eBay
Sure... I feel like walking 30 miles to a remote site to fix a minor problem. You fucking idiot!!!!! Get a clue!! This guy is asking the /. community for help/solution. You people recommend VNC, HELLO.... did ya read the article the guy posted!!! He wants to to be able to enter the BIOS or SCSI controllers to set/change/troubleshoot problems. IDIOTS!!IDIOTS!!IDIOTS!!IDIOTS!!IDIOTS!!IDIOTS!!ID IOTS!!IDIOTS!!IDIOTS!!IDIOTS!!IDIOTS!!IDIOTS!!IDIO TS!!IDIOTS!!IDIOTS!!IDIOTS!!IDIOTS!!IDIOTS!!IDIOTS !!IDIOTS!!
I use remote administrator for all my servers around the country. It's the fastest IP remote administration utility out there. Can't catch things in the bios but can before the login and deal with things like file transfers/rebooting...
www.radmin.com
Just thought i'd give my $.02
Are there any apps that control two computers attached to two monitors but use only one keyboard and one mouse.
IE, it's like a dual head monitor setup but over IP, when you reach an artifical boundary, you'd be controlling the other computer.
I could see huge value in this.
-- dK
Nope. I can do everything with my Suns at a remote location that I could do if they were sitting on my desk. Tell me what you can do with a KVM that I can't already do now. If a KVM is a superset of what I have now, what am I missing? The serial console gives me complete access to the machine at a low level, and a network transparent window system (X11) gives me access to the GUI. What more do I need? What more would a KVM give me? As far as I can see, nothing. Note that these machines don't even have a video card, nor do they need one. PC hardware only comes with a video card because Windows is too braindead to be usable without one, which is one of the reasons why KVMs exist in the first place.
"The invisible and the non-existent look very much alike." -- Delos B. McKown
Before you buy an Avocent, request a trial box from a supplier to test it. I had the opportunity to test one early last year for a very large implementation, and found that the Avocent DS1800 was not stable enough to guarante remote management of a critical production environment. I experienced some lockups in the device, resulting in a trip down the computer room. When you need to keep your KVM's firmware up to date as well as your OS, that is not a good sign.
I agree completely. (This is a bit OT but what the heck...)
We hackers like to tinker and build things. We do it because we like it, no we _love_ it. It is a thing that all hackers have in common, all over the world. Some of us are programmers, some of us are engineers. It is all the same, get to the bottom of how it works and then build something better, something that suits the _hackers_ needs. Then marketing people sometimes take that and make it into a mainnstream product and sells it. We hackers don't care, we ahve already moved on to the next project. The passion to create and learn drives the hacker.
The poet loves to write and the painter loves to paint.
Hackers hack things.
Everybody knows that we are the evil boys, making noise with deadly toys.
Just FYI, since we have recently bought an Avocent IP based KVM at work, it does *not* continuously eat up that amount of bandwidth. It digitizes the video and reconstructs it on the other end, and only transmits the information that has changed between frames. So a static screen (ie. you are not on that server) transmits basically nothing. On an active screen, where you are moving the mouse around and doing things, it can jump up to perhaps 2000-2500 packets/sec (at least, where we are running it at present... the max update speed... next lower choice is constant updates, which produces a *steady* 2k-2.5k packets/sec).
due to it digitizing the screen, there are some 'artifacts' that pop up on the screen occasionally (dark pixels/dropouts), and the colors aren't totally accurate.. but it gets the job done on the servers. The nicest part of it is that I can manage the servers from my desk, rather than walking into the data center to a local console. And for a remote site, it would be invaluable.
If you really need it, I'd say its worth the expense... yes, just under $5k for the box (around $8k total with the software and dongles and everything else). But, if you need it....
Altiris http:://www.altiris.com has a really nice client managment suite. I saw this at Comdex in Toronto a while back. It had kvm stuff and a whole lot more, Remote imaging, amazing desktop migration and user profile transplantation, and a bunch of other stuff. It made us all gawk. The said the cost was just under US$65 per desktop.
I would really consider checking it out.
Code softly but carry a big magnet.
Which technology does Sun equipment ship with to allow the remote dousing of equipment fires? There will always be a need for physical access to a machine at *some* time, even if it is to plug it in and power it on for the first time. This is a secondary observation, though.
A KVM may not be the optimal solution for you, but the asker may have to run a mixed environment with some NT servers, neccessitating(sp?) system work after the bios but before full boot to a remote access enviroment (many errors can happen loading drivers before PCA/VNC/TS are available).Error: PANTS NOT FOUND. Press <F1> to continue.
A real serial terminal server and real Unix hardware is the solution. PC hardware is gay.
Get one of those cards that convert all the text mode into RS232 and RS232 into the keyboard info. (ISA cards, had them for years...) this will get you up to the graphical start, then you switch to vnc.
Do it the old way. if you really dont need to babysit the boot process for every inch of the way then you dont need to spend $$$$ on that luxury.
I'm guessing that you are looking for more than you really need.
Checkout minicom.com they have a KVM system that uses cat5 cable to link all the systems, yes that right kiddies they will have to run one more cable to each machine but they are daisy chained together. The base
price is 699 for the dongle version and 599 for the pci version and that will do 4 machines each machine after that is 159 for the dongle or 139 for the pci card version and it can be up to 360 feet away , I think that is how long the total cable length can be but I am not sure. Daisy chain up to 42 machines
Dr. Suess: 'Gandalf, Gandalf! Take the ring! I am too small to carry this thing!' 'I can not, will not hold the One.
Dell ships the DRAC (Dell Remote Assistand Card) which supports all you want over IP or Dial-Up
Sometimes a problem should be solved using efficiency and pre-created/existing tools. Sometimes the "let's hack this" mentality is appropriate.
The true master knows when to use the correct approach. Calling either one a cop out or wasted effort isn't the way to go.
In this case, I think you would want to go with a more "off the shelf" solution" and direct your hacking energies towards the machines that are actually being run. Instead of spending a week tweaking a home made KVM over IP solution you could purchase something and use that week to tweak the servers and maybe consolidate a box or two.
Remember, at the end of the day you have to evaluate the priorities and direct your energies. Having a really cool home-brew KVM solution will not improve your overall system. Having a really well tweaked set of servers will.
--- I wish I could hear the soundtrack to my life. That way I'd know when to duck.
We got a demo of an Avocent unit that did the same thing. It did have a centralized user database capability (unfortunately I think it was like Windows domain auth or something less flexible than RADIUS/LDAP/TACACS+).
It worked well, but REALLY expensive for a 16 port version. Expensive to the tune of around $10k for the box, the auth server module, and 2-3 client licenses. I was most turned off by the fact that the server and client software were $old $eperately, since the software is useless without the hardware.
I read a USENET post (circa 11/2001) that said the devices were buggy and the vendor was an asshole about other platform clients and future development/changes.
I think digitized video and IP KVM connectivity is probably not a fluke and represents the "future" of KVM, but vendors will need to seriously get their shit together in terms of client access and pricing otherwise computer makers are just going to crush this product with their own built-in remote management. All our HP servers have built-in serial management that can do power on/off/reboot, environment management, and text/keyboard redirection; HP and Compaq both have boards that can do it natively over IP, the *only* thing missing is the ability to do transparent video redirection. When they do that, KVM will be obsoleted by a laptop running a redirection client.
http://www.cyclades.com/products/stdalone/ts1_2000 .php
www.raritan.com We use it for all our boxes in a room of about 60 boxes of a sun and nt mixture.
Kevin
Framebuffer to VNC server
http://fb2vnc.sourceforge.net
However, this doesn't make for "The Right Way". Hacking at something - figuring out how it works, seeing how you can do it better (or less expensively), and enjoying the process - is the source of solutions that Just Work.
No. Generally, in my experience, it's the source of solutions that Almost Work. Or solutions that Work Unless You Do This. Or solutions that Just Worked Last Week, What the Hell Did We Change That Broke It?
"[G]eneral lackluster performance of the contraption in question" is the result of not understanding something enough to do it well. Many off-the-shelf solutions suck - Windows 98, anyone? So do many home-brew setups. The problems doesn't come from the nature of a rig, it comes from the effort and intelligence of the creator.
No, the problem comes from the continual poor reinvention of the wheel on Ask Slashbots. In this situation, KVM-IP switches are the answer. Not a 486 with a bunch of TV cards in it. Not a rat's nest of cables. If this person worked for me and proposed this solution, I would have a hard time signing his checks from then on.
- A.p.
"Remember when the U.S. had a drug problem, and then we declared a War On Drugs, and now you can't buy drugs anymore?"
on my last post. So I've come back with research:
/
.Net server. I also don't know if NT serial console is always availabel or only available when the core dumps... errr... I mean when you get a blue screen. And of course X, VNC or Terminal Services give you the ability to manage via your OSes GUI.
Where I work, we use an old DEC product called Polycenter Console Manager. It's THE best thing since sliced bread and the morons that took over DEC gave it away to someone who didn't "get it".
Basically, we have a server that runs Polycenter and monitors/logs the consoles on our alphas. Many times, I've wondered if there was anything like this for my servers at home. Well, after seeing this guy's post, I was forced to do a little research. Here is what I came up with:
Conserver running on a Linux box set up to be a logserver (it sounds like it does what Polycenter does)
http://www.conserver.com/
To remotely control BIOS settings, install a small Linux distro and BIOSWriter on each workstation to be monitored along with a boot man ager:
http://sourceforge.net/projects/bioswriter
GRUB or LILO with serial console enabled to choose the OS you boot into (One of those coices being LInux with BIOSWriter).
VNC or X for UNIX boxen, VNC or Terminal Services for Windows boxen for after the OS is up.
The way I see it, this should allow you almost complete control of the BIOS (via BIOSWriter), the ability to select the OS you boot into (via your boot manager's serial console) and monitoring of any activity from your Linux console messages on an x86 box, plus you have console logging to boot. NT can provide serial console if you enable it in the boot.ini. I don't know about Win2K or
The only thing you can't do with this is watch the POST. From my perspective this is about the most cost-effective system with the exception of the time you spend setting it up.
Any better?
-"...bad old ideas look confusingly fresh when they are packaged as technology" - Jaron Lanier (Digital Maoism on Edge.o
Call George of Redwood KVM at 256-679-6178. He knows everything there is to know about KVMs. Plus he's a super nice guy. He went out of his way to find me a KVM and then refurbish it himself. And then he charged me very little for it.
OKsofar
Unfortunately they only have a device driver for some versions of Microsoft Windows at the moment.