Slashdot Mirror

Wrong. There are no true christians who would threaten such violence. By definition, zero. Because clearly this would distinguish these people as people who do not follow the teachings of Jesus Christ.

And yet the likes of Fred Phelps will claim, using the exact same reference material, that you cannot be a true Christian if you don't hate homosexuals and muslims.

See No True Scotsman fallacy.

Jesus Christ taught us to turn the other cheek - ref, to not resist an evil person - ref, , and that those who live by the sword will die by the sword - ref. Pretty simple test really.

Jesus Christ also fully endorsed the barbaric cruelty of the old testament ref

He came "not to send peace, but a sword", to set families against each other ref

He questioned the Pharisees as to why they did not uphold the law of God by their tradition, the law in question being "Honour thy father and mother: and, He that curseth father or mother, let him die the death." ref

Jesus will "take vengeance on them that know not God" ref (by burning them in everlasting fire, as it happens)

Plenty more here, and to pre-empt any cries of foul play, yes, the references I have linked here are to the Skeptic's Annotated Bible, however, it is simply a perfectly ordinary KJV. It just has extra annotations. If you feel happier using biblegateway or some other web reference for the KJV feel free.

Wrong. There are no true christians who would threaten such violence. By definition, zero. Because clearly this would distinguish these people as people who do not follow the teachings of Jesus Christ.

And yet the likes of Fred Phelps will claim, using the exact same reference material, that you cannot be a true Christian if you don't hate homosexuals and muslims.

See No True Scotsman fallacy.

Jesus Christ taught us to turn the other cheek - ref, to not resist an evil person - ref, , and that those who live by the sword will die by the sword - ref. Pretty simple test really.

Jesus Christ also fully endorsed the barbaric cruelty of the old testament ref

He came "not to send peace, but a sword", to set families against each other ref

He questioned the Pharisees as to why they did not uphold the law of God by their tradition, the law in question being "Honour thy father and mother: and, He that curseth father or mother, let him die the death." ref

Jesus will "take vengeance on them that know not God" ref (by burning them in everlasting fire, as it happens)

Plenty more here, and to pre-empt any cries of foul play, yes, the references I have linked here are to the Skeptic's Annotated Bible, however, it is simply a perfectly ordinary KJV. It just has extra annotations. If you feel happier using biblegateway or some other web reference for the KJV feel free.

Wrong. There are no true christians who would threaten such violence. By definition, zero. Because clearly this would distinguish these people as people who do not follow the teachings of Jesus Christ.

And yet the likes of Fred Phelps will claim, using the exact same reference material, that you cannot be a true Christian if you don't hate homosexuals and muslims.

See No True Scotsman fallacy.

Jesus Christ taught us to turn the other cheek - ref, to not resist an evil person - ref, , and that those who live by the sword will die by the sword - ref. Pretty simple test really.

Jesus Christ also fully endorsed the barbaric cruelty of the old testament ref

He came "not to send peace, but a sword", to set families against each other ref

He questioned the Pharisees as to why they did not uphold the law of God by their tradition, the law in question being "Honour thy father and mother: and, He that curseth father or mother, let him die the death." ref

Jesus will "take vengeance on them that know not God" ref (by burning them in everlasting fire, as it happens)

Plenty more here, and to pre-empt any cries of foul play, yes, the references I have linked here are to the Skeptic's Annotated Bible, however, it is simply a perfectly ordinary KJV. It just has extra annotations. If you feel happier using biblegateway or some other web reference for the KJV feel free.

Wrong. There are no true christians who would threaten such violence. By definition, zero. Because clearly this would distinguish these people as people who do not follow the teachings of Jesus Christ.

And yet the likes of Fred Phelps will claim, using the exact same reference material, that you cannot be a true Christian if you don't hate homosexuals and muslims.

See No True Scotsman fallacy.

Jesus Christ taught us to turn the other cheek - ref, to not resist an evil person - ref, , and that those who live by the sword will die by the sword - ref. Pretty simple test really.

Jesus Christ also fully endorsed the barbaric cruelty of the old testament ref

He came "not to send peace, but a sword", to set families against each other ref

He questioned the Pharisees as to why they did not uphold the law of God by their tradition, the law in question being "Honour thy father and mother: and, He that curseth father or mother, let him die the death." ref

Jesus will "take vengeance on them that know not God" ref (by burning them in everlasting fire, as it happens)

Plenty more here, and to pre-empt any cries of foul play, yes, the references I have linked here are to the Skeptic's Annotated Bible, however, it is simply a perfectly ordinary KJV. It just has extra annotations. If you feel happier using biblegateway or some other web reference for the KJV feel free.

Clear as mud.

I think he's referring to slaughter of the Midianites in Numbers 31:

31:17 Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him. 31:18 But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves.

A quick google of "New Testament kill" brings up the following website:
http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/cruelty/nt.h tml
I'm not saying that everything on the website is true and the correct interpritaion, but there certainly are passages in the new testament where killing is ok.

Yeah its really time people rebel agains the big religions which are nothing but cults of death and violence. Let's see what we can find in the bible:

Gen.7:21-22
God drowns all children (except for Noah's) in a flood.

Gen.22:2
God tells Abraham to kill his son for a burnt offering.

Ex.12:30
God murders the Egyptian firstborn children.

Ex.21:15, Lev.20:9, Dt.21:18-21
Children who are disobedient, or who curse or strike their parents are to be killed.

Dt.20:16, Jos.10:40
God ordered the Israelites to kill all of the children in the cities that they invaded.

2 Sam.12:15, 18
To punish David for having Uriah killed, God kills David's newborn son.

2 Kg.2:23-24
God sends bears to kill 42 little boys for making fun of Elisha's bald head.

Jer.19:9
God will make parents eat their own children, and friends eat each other.

Ps.135:8, 136:10
God is praised for slaughtering little babies.

Ps.137:9
Happiness is smashing your little children against rocks.

Ezek.5:10
God will cause fathers to eat their sons and sons to eat their fathers.

Hos.9:16
God assures Hosea that he will "slay even the beloved fruit of the womb."

Hos.13:16
God promises to dash to pieces the infants of Samaria and "their women with child shall be ripped up."

Zech.13:3
A prophet must be killed by his own parents by "thrusting him through when he prophesieth."

--http://www.mykeru.com/weekly/2004_0118_0124.html #012304

more here:
http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/cruelty/shor t.html

and here
http://www.goatstar.org/atrocities-committed-or-co mmanded-by-god/

You mean Exodus, right?

You seem awfully sure of that. Matthew 24 and Luke 17/18 have Jesus speaking about his return, but he says nothing about killing everyone or sending them to hell and the display is described as 'with power and great glory'. Maybe you are thinking of Revelation, but that is a record of a vision, not the words of Jesus. And according to Wikipedia: 'Protestant founder Martin Luther considered Revelation to be "neither apostolic nor prophetic" and stated that "Christ is neither taught nor known in it"'.

Do those passages actually exist? You haven't shown that they do. Its true that God is said to have committed infanticide and various horrible things, but you don't say where it commands believers to engage in the same acts as a matter of policy. God also let his son die - do you interpret that to mean that the Bible teaches us to let our children die?

On the specific topic of racism, the parable of the Good Samaritan is notable because for the Jews of the time, Samaritans were a despised ethnic and religious minority group. Do you admit that this parable exists in Christian literature, and that it is a clearly anti-racist message? Let's assume for now that you are right that there are racist passages in the Bible, or that some passages could be interpreted in that light. At best, you might be able to conclude that the Bible is ambiguous on racism, but you are making a much stronger claim that the Bible is clearly racist. Furthermore, this is a very bizzare reductive claim, that the level of racism in a society is determined by what is written in their holy books and if holy books were different (or didn't exist at all), racism would not exist.

If you find internal consistency (within the dogma of a religion, including their trusted documents) and external consistency with the outer (earth/cosmos) and inner (conscience/mind) world, then you can start taking it seriously.

For a list of internal bible inconsistencies, visit http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/contra/by_na me.html
For a list of inconsistencies between the bible and history/science, visit http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/science/long .html

If you find internal consistency (within the dogma of a religion, including their trusted documents) and external consistency with the outer (earth/cosmos) and inner (conscience/mind) world, then you can start taking it seriously.

For a list of internal bible inconsistencies, visit http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/contra/by_na me.html
For a list of inconsistencies between the bible and history/science, visit http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/science/long .html

BEATING PEOPLE UP is not a "fundamental" Christian philosophy

Yeah, wholesale slaughter is more the christain style.

"This could presumably lead to problems if a miraculous recovery of the donor happened..."

I'd say those would be religious problems. Who would want to believe in a god that would wait for a brain dead person to have her face torn off before miraculously bringing her back to life? What kind of sick bastard would do that? Well, the same guy who'd do these things.

Hi there,
It's really nice to see that you appear to be very willing to question your views - always a healthy thing.
Regarding the age of the earth, you can find a good explanation of why it is known to be considerably older than 6000 years at the Talk Origins Age Of The Earth FAQ and a collection of more in depth FAQs on relevant subjects here. Of particular interest should be the Solar FAQ which will address your concerns about the age/lifespan of our sun, and this article on 'How the Sun Shines'.

These are by no means exhaustive, or even highly detailed articles on the subjects - indeed, they touch barely the tip of the iceberg in terms of evidence avaliable for the age of our planet, but it should certainly give you a good introduction to the material.

Furthermore, I also have to take you up on your claim that "in anything provable, the bible has so far been correct". For starters, there's a fairly extensive list of conflicts between the bible and known science and history here - and while some of them may seem pedantic, of concern only to the ultra-literalist, there are plenty of others which are problematic at any level of interpretation. Also, there's a rather long list of promises and prophecies which have failed here, and some 360-odd instances of the bible contradicting itself here - and just to assure you no foul play is afoot, while those lists are on the Skeptics Annotated Bible website, that site is merely a standard King James Version with additional sidenotes - by all means, use your own copy of the KJV if you don't trust it.

Anyways, I may not agree with your views or opinions, but I must say I have the highest respect for the fact that you are willing to question them. All too often I see people with religious believes cover their ears and start going "lalalala! I can't hear you!" when their beliefs are challenged, so kudos for actually inviting a challenge :)

Hi there,
It's really nice to see that you appear to be very willing to question your views - always a healthy thing.
Regarding the age of the earth, you can find a good explanation of why it is known to be considerably older than 6000 years at the Talk Origins Age Of The Earth FAQ and a collection of more in depth FAQs on relevant subjects here. Of particular interest should be the Solar FAQ which will address your concerns about the age/lifespan of our sun, and this article on 'How the Sun Shines'.

These are by no means exhaustive, or even highly detailed articles on the subjects - indeed, they touch barely the tip of the iceberg in terms of evidence avaliable for the age of our planet, but it should certainly give you a good introduction to the material.

Furthermore, I also have to take you up on your claim that "in anything provable, the bible has so far been correct". For starters, there's a fairly extensive list of conflicts between the bible and known science and history here - and while some of them may seem pedantic, of concern only to the ultra-literalist, there are plenty of others which are problematic at any level of interpretation. Also, there's a rather long list of promises and prophecies which have failed here, and some 360-odd instances of the bible contradicting itself here - and just to assure you no foul play is afoot, while those lists are on the Skeptics Annotated Bible website, that site is merely a standard King James Version with additional sidenotes - by all means, use your own copy of the KJV if you don't trust it.

Anyways, I may not agree with your views or opinions, but I must say I have the highest respect for the fact that you are willing to question them. All too often I see people with religious believes cover their ears and start going "lalalala! I can't hear you!" when their beliefs are challenged, so kudos for actually inviting a challenge :)

Hi there,
It's really nice to see that you appear to be very willing to question your views - always a healthy thing.
Regarding the age of the earth, you can find a good explanation of why it is known to be considerably older than 6000 years at the Talk Origins Age Of The Earth FAQ and a collection of more in depth FAQs on relevant subjects here. Of particular interest should be the Solar FAQ which will address your concerns about the age/lifespan of our sun, and this article on 'How the Sun Shines'.

These are by no means exhaustive, or even highly detailed articles on the subjects - indeed, they touch barely the tip of the iceberg in terms of evidence avaliable for the age of our planet, but it should certainly give you a good introduction to the material.

Furthermore, I also have to take you up on your claim that "in anything provable, the bible has so far been correct". For starters, there's a fairly extensive list of conflicts between the bible and known science and history here - and while some of them may seem pedantic, of concern only to the ultra-literalist, there are plenty of others which are problematic at any level of interpretation. Also, there's a rather long list of promises and prophecies which have failed here, and some 360-odd instances of the bible contradicting itself here - and just to assure you no foul play is afoot, while those lists are on the Skeptics Annotated Bible website, that site is merely a standard King James Version with additional sidenotes - by all means, use your own copy of the KJV if you don't trust it.

Anyways, I may not agree with your views or opinions, but I must say I have the highest respect for the fact that you are willing to question them. All too often I see people with religious believes cover their ears and start going "lalalala! I can't hear you!" when their beliefs are challenged, so kudos for actually inviting a challenge :)

Really, so everything in the bible is true? I didn't realize that rabbits chew cud (http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/dt/14.html# 7). Damn, how could all of those biologists be so wrong for so long, when all they had to do was open their bible instead of actually, um, observing the rabbits? Man, I bet they feel stupid.

If we can't duplicate with intent that which is theorized to occur through purely random processes, then that should tell you all you need to know right there. The next thing someone is gonna say is that their AMD64 X2 CPU came about via "natural selection". Get your head of your ass and read the first part of Psalms 14:1,

You appear to be very confused.

Microprocessors do not reproduce. They do not grow. They are inanimate objects. They are very different to living organisms.
Also, you appear to have a fundamental misunderstanding of the nature of evolution. It is not a random process, it is a highly directed process using filtered randomisation. As an analogy (not to evolution, to filtered randomisation), fill a box with balls. Cut small holes in the bottom, and shake randomly.. what do you find? the small ones drop out. Wow! Isn't that amazing! A completely undirected random process of shaking the balls in a box caused them to seperate themselves into collections of big and small. Must be the work of God!

Now, on to your biblical reference:

Psalms 14:1: The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.

I see. And you accept everything the bible says as true, do you? Putting aside your circular reasoning ("It's true because it says it's true") I assume then that you also stand by the following:

Psalms 137:9 - "Happy shall he be, that taketh and dasheth thy little ones against the stones"

Killed anyone for breaking the Sabbath recently? I'm sure it can't be THAT hard to find someone who works on Sunday, just try your local mall or shops, and as a good Christian, it's your duty according to...

Exodus 31:14 - "Ye shall keep the sabbath therefore; for it is holy unto you: every one that defileth it shall surely be put to death: for whosoever doeth any work therein, that soul shall be cut off from among his people."

That's the great thing about the bible. It'd damns itself.. as Penn & Teller said, I wish more people would read the damn bible. We need more atheists.

Of course, you might think I'm quote mining, picking up a few isolated things here and there, but there's plenty more where those came from

And before I hear any complaints about using the Skeptic's Annontated Bible, it's merely an ordinary King James Version with some annotations at the side.

If we can't duplicate with intent that which is theorized to occur through purely random processes, then that should tell you all you need to know right there. The next thing someone is gonna say is that their AMD64 X2 CPU came about via "natural selection". Get your head of your ass and read the first part of Psalms 14:1,

You appear to be very confused.

Microprocessors do not reproduce. They do not grow. They are inanimate objects. They are very different to living organisms.
Also, you appear to have a fundamental misunderstanding of the nature of evolution. It is not a random process, it is a highly directed process using filtered randomisation. As an analogy (not to evolution, to filtered randomisation), fill a box with balls. Cut small holes in the bottom, and shake randomly.. what do you find? the small ones drop out. Wow! Isn't that amazing! A completely undirected random process of shaking the balls in a box caused them to seperate themselves into collections of big and small. Must be the work of God!

Now, on to your biblical reference:

Psalms 14:1: The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.

I see. And you accept everything the bible says as true, do you? Putting aside your circular reasoning ("It's true because it says it's true") I assume then that you also stand by the following:

Psalms 137:9 - "Happy shall he be, that taketh and dasheth thy little ones against the stones"

Killed anyone for breaking the Sabbath recently? I'm sure it can't be THAT hard to find someone who works on Sunday, just try your local mall or shops, and as a good Christian, it's your duty according to...

Exodus 31:14 - "Ye shall keep the sabbath therefore; for it is holy unto you: every one that defileth it shall surely be put to death: for whosoever doeth any work therein, that soul shall be cut off from among his people."

That's the great thing about the bible. It'd damns itself.. as Penn & Teller said, I wish more people would read the damn bible. We need more atheists.

Of course, you might think I'm quote mining, picking up a few isolated things here and there, but there's plenty more where those came from

And before I hear any complaints about using the Skeptic's Annontated Bible, it's merely an ordinary King James Version with some annotations at the side.

If we can't duplicate with intent that which is theorized to occur through purely random processes, then that should tell you all you need to know right there. The next thing someone is gonna say is that their AMD64 X2 CPU came about via "natural selection". Get your head of your ass and read the first part of Psalms 14:1,

You appear to be very confused.

Microprocessors do not reproduce. They do not grow. They are inanimate objects. They are very different to living organisms.
Also, you appear to have a fundamental misunderstanding of the nature of evolution. It is not a random process, it is a highly directed process using filtered randomisation. As an analogy (not to evolution, to filtered randomisation), fill a box with balls. Cut small holes in the bottom, and shake randomly.. what do you find? the small ones drop out. Wow! Isn't that amazing! A completely undirected random process of shaking the balls in a box caused them to seperate themselves into collections of big and small. Must be the work of God!

Now, on to your biblical reference:

Psalms 14:1: The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.

I see. And you accept everything the bible says as true, do you? Putting aside your circular reasoning ("It's true because it says it's true") I assume then that you also stand by the following:

Psalms 137:9 - "Happy shall he be, that taketh and dasheth thy little ones against the stones"

Killed anyone for breaking the Sabbath recently? I'm sure it can't be THAT hard to find someone who works on Sunday, just try your local mall or shops, and as a good Christian, it's your duty according to...

Exodus 31:14 - "Ye shall keep the sabbath therefore; for it is holy unto you: every one that defileth it shall surely be put to death: for whosoever doeth any work therein, that soul shall be cut off from among his people."

That's the great thing about the bible. It'd damns itself.. as Penn & Teller said, I wish more people would read the damn bible. We need more atheists.

Of course, you might think I'm quote mining, picking up a few isolated things here and there, but there's plenty more where those came from

And before I hear any complaints about using the Skeptic's Annontated Bible, it's merely an ordinary King James Version with some annotations at the side.

If we can't duplicate with intent that which is theorized to occur through purely random processes, then that should tell you all you need to know right there. The next thing someone is gonna say is that their AMD64 X2 CPU came about via "natural selection". Get your head of your ass and read the first part of Psalms 14:1,

You appear to be very confused.

Microprocessors do not reproduce. They do not grow. They are inanimate objects. They are very different to living organisms.
Also, you appear to have a fundamental misunderstanding of the nature of evolution. It is not a random process, it is a highly directed process using filtered randomisation. As an analogy (not to evolution, to filtered randomisation), fill a box with balls. Cut small holes in the bottom, and shake randomly.. what do you find? the small ones drop out. Wow! Isn't that amazing! A completely undirected random process of shaking the balls in a box caused them to seperate themselves into collections of big and small. Must be the work of God!

Now, on to your biblical reference:

Psalms 14:1: The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.

I see. And you accept everything the bible says as true, do you? Putting aside your circular reasoning ("It's true because it says it's true") I assume then that you also stand by the following:

Psalms 137:9 - "Happy shall he be, that taketh and dasheth thy little ones against the stones"

Killed anyone for breaking the Sabbath recently? I'm sure it can't be THAT hard to find someone who works on Sunday, just try your local mall or shops, and as a good Christian, it's your duty according to...

Exodus 31:14 - "Ye shall keep the sabbath therefore; for it is holy unto you: every one that defileth it shall surely be put to death: for whosoever doeth any work therein, that soul shall be cut off from among his people."

That's the great thing about the bible. It'd damns itself.. as Penn & Teller said, I wish more people would read the damn bible. We need more atheists.

Of course, you might think I'm quote mining, picking up a few isolated things here and there, but there's plenty more where those came from

And before I hear any complaints about using the Skeptic's Annontated Bible, it's merely an ordinary King James Version with some annotations at the side.

If we can't duplicate with intent that which is theorized to occur through purely random processes, then that should tell you all you need to know right there. The next thing someone is gonna say is that their AMD64 X2 CPU came about via "natural selection". Get your head of your ass and read the first part of Psalms 14:1,

You appear to be very confused.

Microprocessors do not reproduce. They do not grow. They are inanimate objects. They are very different to living organisms.
Also, you appear to have a fundamental misunderstanding of the nature of evolution. It is not a random process, it is a highly directed process using filtered randomisation. As an analogy (not to evolution, to filtered randomisation), fill a box with balls. Cut small holes in the bottom, and shake randomly.. what do you find? the small ones drop out. Wow! Isn't that amazing! A completely undirected random process of shaking the balls in a box caused them to seperate themselves into collections of big and small. Must be the work of God!

Now, on to your biblical reference:

Psalms 14:1: The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.

I see. And you accept everything the bible says as true, do you? Putting aside your circular reasoning ("It's true because it says it's true") I assume then that you also stand by the following:

Psalms 137:9 - "Happy shall he be, that taketh and dasheth thy little ones against the stones"

Killed anyone for breaking the Sabbath recently? I'm sure it can't be THAT hard to find someone who works on Sunday, just try your local mall or shops, and as a good Christian, it's your duty according to...

Exodus 31:14 - "Ye shall keep the sabbath therefore; for it is holy unto you: every one that defileth it shall surely be put to death: for whosoever doeth any work therein, that soul shall be cut off from among his people."

That's the great thing about the bible. It'd damns itself.. as Penn & Teller said, I wish more people would read the damn bible. We need more atheists.

Of course, you might think I'm quote mining, picking up a few isolated things here and there, but there's plenty more where those came from

And before I hear any complaints about using the Skeptic's Annontated Bible, it's merely an ordinary King James Version with some annotations at the side.

If we can't duplicate with intent that which is theorized to occur through purely random processes, then that should tell you all you need to know right there. The next thing someone is gonna say is that their AMD64 X2 CPU came about via "natural selection". Get your head of your ass and read the first part of Psalms 14:1,

You appear to be very confused.

Microprocessors do not reproduce. They do not grow. They are inanimate objects. They are very different to living organisms.
Also, you appear to have a fundamental misunderstanding of the nature of evolution. It is not a random process, it is a highly directed process using filtered randomisation. As an analogy (not to evolution, to filtered randomisation), fill a box with balls. Cut small holes in the bottom, and shake randomly.. what do you find? the small ones drop out. Wow! Isn't that amazing! A completely undirected random process of shaking the balls in a box caused them to seperate themselves into collections of big and small. Must be the work of God!

Now, on to your biblical reference:

Psalms 14:1: The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.

I see. And you accept everything the bible says as true, do you? Putting aside your circular reasoning ("It's true because it says it's true") I assume then that you also stand by the following:

Psalms 137:9 - "Happy shall he be, that taketh and dasheth thy little ones against the stones"

Killed anyone for breaking the Sabbath recently? I'm sure it can't be THAT hard to find someone who works on Sunday, just try your local mall or shops, and as a good Christian, it's your duty according to...

Exodus 31:14 - "Ye shall keep the sabbath therefore; for it is holy unto you: every one that defileth it shall surely be put to death: for whosoever doeth any work therein, that soul shall be cut off from among his people."

That's the great thing about the bible. It'd damns itself.. as Penn & Teller said, I wish more people would read the damn bible. We need more atheists.

Of course, you might think I'm quote mining, picking up a few isolated things here and there, but there's plenty more where those came from

And before I hear any complaints about using the Skeptic's Annontated Bible, it's merely an ordinary King James Version with some annotations at the side.

To reinforce this, it was explained to me that the original translation of the Bible was not necessarily " days", but "periods of my Father" (referring to God) and the like. So, when you consider that Genisis originally stated that it was seven periods of time (length undetermined) instead of seven days, then it doesn't seem that odd that the Vatican would support evolution.

As has been pointed out, the original Hebrew really does use the word for "day", and says "And the evening and the morning were the Xth day" between each transition. However, even if you were to take "day" metaphorically, you cannot reconcile Genesis with anything we know about science. The order of creation is completely wrong. The earth is created before the stars, birds and whales are created before reptiles and insects, and flowering plants are created before any animals. It's ass-backwards.

http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/

Jack Thompson really needs to pick his targets better. After all, GTA:SA or Manhunt may have shocking content, but they look like an episode of the Tellytubbies in comparison to the bible with all it's cruelty and violence, intolerance, injustice, questionable 'family values', and misogyny

Jack Thompson really needs to pick his targets better. After all, GTA:SA or Manhunt may have shocking content, but they look like an episode of the Tellytubbies in comparison to the bible with all it's cruelty and violence, intolerance, injustice, questionable 'family values', and misogyny

Jack Thompson really needs to pick his targets better. After all, GTA:SA or Manhunt may have shocking content, but they look like an episode of the Tellytubbies in comparison to the bible with all it's cruelty and violence, intolerance, injustice, questionable 'family values', and misogyny

Jack Thompson really needs to pick his targets better. After all, GTA:SA or Manhunt may have shocking content, but they look like an episode of the Tellytubbies in comparison to the bible with all it's cruelty and violence, intolerance, injustice, questionable 'family values', and misogyny

Jack Thompson really needs to pick his targets better. After all, GTA:SA or Manhunt may have shocking content, but they look like an episode of the Tellytubbies in comparison to the bible with all it's cruelty and violence, intolerance, injustice, questionable 'family values', and misogyny

I'm thinkin' a six shooter'll be good enough. After all, chariots of iron are good enuf to give Yaweh's hide a beet red tannin'!

Do you believe God made the Universe, Heaven, Earth, and everything in it?

No. There are no gods. There are only beliefs used to comfort people about things they do not understand.

Science is the word we use to describe our research trying to find God through evidence of his Creation.

Nope. Sorry. Science is a methodical way of obtaining evidence of how things work. See the Science entry at Wikipedia

You think Man authored the Laws of Physics which scientists hold so dear? Think again. No man set Avagadro's constant, or any of the other parameters of our observable universe.

No god set it either. If God created the universe, who created God? Don't answer with "He/She/It has always existed either. Because the simpler explanation then, using Occam's Razor, is that the universe always existed.

If God did create us, did he intend us to try to find Him, or mull around like a bunch of obedient ignorant sheep doing the bidding of those who take it in their mind to control us?

Religion, of any type is a form of mind control. It doesn't matter which religion. Galileo was put throught the Inquisition for stating that the Earth revolved around the Sun. A Heresy in his time, but true nonetheless. Religion blinds people to the truth, it doesn't show it to them.

Scientists are trying to understand God's creation and what our place in it is supposed to be.

Scientists are trying to understand the world we live in, NOT "God's creation" as you put it. Some scientists are atheists, you know.

As for understanding our place in it, that is for philosophers to debate, not scientists.

Am I supposed to believe there is a God up there somewhere who tells various factions all over the Earth to gather in his name and smite the other ones?

Yes. Read the old testament. The whole thing. Add up how much smiting goes on. Plenty of smiting just in the first five books.

Or does simple knowledge of human behavioural psychologies and obedience structures indicate the Gods of Religion are just some entity created by men so they could use it to control other men?

Now you're getting it.

If God created me with sufficient intelligence to seek Him, why is he gonna hold it against me for doing exactly that?

Okay, next exercise. Read your Bible. I am assuming you own one. Now, look at all the contradictions. If you need help with that, look here The Skeptic's Annotated Bible to find all the Biblical contradictions you could ever want.

1 Kings 7:23.

Of course, you can wrangle a way to make it make sense if you look hard enough. Or even come up with a plausible way for it to be a rounding error. Or, y'know, a guess. There's plenty else to mock in the Bible.

--grendel drago

Oh man, that's frickin' great.

--grendel drago

I don't hate Christians, though some of them spread plenty of hate - see godhatesfags.com [warning: potentially offensive], and if your answer is "but that's not a true Christian", I suggest you google for "no true scotsman fallacy", and explain just what does constitute a true Christian.

As for the Bible, well, I do rather dislike it. it's a pretty nasty piece of work, on the whole - and hey, call me crazy, but I tend to be wary of anybody who bases their life and morality around a book which orders them to kill me for not believing as they do.

I'm not denying there's some good stuff in the Bible, and I've no problem with that - in fact, I'll even link to some of it. Heck, the BNP probably have some good stuff amongst all their twisted, hateful policies too. But the fact is the Bible tells you to follow it. All of it. To the letter. And it includes a lot of bad stuff. Put simply, the good stuff does not justify the bad stuff. To say otherwise is to argue that it's okay for me to rape and murder, because I also help old ladies cross the road, and rescue cats from trees.

Funny though. At the start of this you accused me of being afraid of the Bible. I hope I have demonstrated by now that I am very familiar and comfortable with it as a subject. I suspect, however, it is you who is afraid. After all, you dismiss any problems with a wave of the hand and an "Oh, I'm sure there's an answer somewhere. Probably. I hope"

Incidentally, I had a look at the link in your sig. I presume that it being in your sig indicates an endorsement of some kind by yourself. Aside from being generally hostile - and insulting - towards atheists, the first few paragraphs alone describing the book are so staggeringly flawed that I'd be here all day were I to go through them. Just one random example: Massive strawman on the nature of faith. I do not have faith when I turn on a lightswitch, eat cornflakes, drink coffee, or expect the sun to rise tomorrow. I have expectation based on previous experience. Faith would be believing something with no previous experience or evidence - for instance that when the sun rises tomorrow it will be green and square.

Anyway though, this is all way off topic, this is not the place, and I suspect this has run it's course anyway. If you're interested in persuing any of it further, you might want to head on over to www.infidelguy.com - don't let the name put you off, it's not a Christian bashing site - it's a place for people of all (and no) faith to discuss and debate religion in the light of critical analysis.

The Bible doesn't say sex is wrong, the Bible does say pornography is wrong, and lusting after another woman in your heart means you already comitted adultery. The Bible also says adulterers, fornicators, liars, thieves, murderers and drunks will not enter the kingdom of heaven. Lest they repent and abandon their ways.

Is pornography wrong? As a Christian, I obviously think so. I used to be addicted to it from an early age, but thanks to God I am free from it now.

So you draw your morality from the bible?
Jolly good.

Do you have kids? A son, perhaps? Let's hope he never gets stubborn and rebellious, or you'll have to stone him to death

And if he manages to survive long enough to get through that phase, I sure hope he doesn't try to convert you to another religion, because you'll have to kill him for that, too

And he'd better not be gay either, because that's an abomination

Hey, you're quids in if you've got a daughter though, because it's A-OK to sell her into slavery... wonder if eBay allow that?

Before you do that though, you should check whether she's on her period before having any contact with her, as menstruating women are unclean, and contaminate anything they touch

Hope you don't like eating shellfish either, 'cuz those are an abomination too

Of course, you can make it real nice and easy by just sticking to the Ten Commandments, right? I mean, you can't go wrong there, surely. Except which of the three different sets should you use?

The Bible doesn't say sex is wrong, the Bible does say pornography is wrong, and lusting after another woman in your heart means you already comitted adultery. The Bible also says adulterers, fornicators, liars, thieves, murderers and drunks will not enter the kingdom of heaven. Lest they repent and abandon their ways.

Is pornography wrong? As a Christian, I obviously think so. I used to be addicted to it from an early age, but thanks to God I am free from it now.

So you draw your morality from the bible?
Jolly good.

Do you have kids? A son, perhaps? Let's hope he never gets stubborn and rebellious, or you'll have to stone him to death

And if he manages to survive long enough to get through that phase, I sure hope he doesn't try to convert you to another religion, because you'll have to kill him for that, too

And he'd better not be gay either, because that's an abomination

Hey, you're quids in if you've got a daughter though, because it's A-OK to sell her into slavery... wonder if eBay allow that?

Before you do that though, you should check whether she's on her period before having any contact with her, as menstruating women are unclean, and contaminate anything they touch

Hope you don't like eating shellfish either, 'cuz those are an abomination too

Of course, you can make it real nice and easy by just sticking to the Ten Commandments, right? I mean, you can't go wrong there, surely. Except which of the three different sets should you use?

The Bible doesn't say sex is wrong, the Bible does say pornography is wrong, and lusting after another woman in your heart means you already comitted adultery. The Bible also says adulterers, fornicators, liars, thieves, murderers and drunks will not enter the kingdom of heaven. Lest they repent and abandon their ways.

Is pornography wrong? As a Christian, I obviously think so. I used to be addicted to it from an early age, but thanks to God I am free from it now.

So you draw your morality from the bible?
Jolly good.

Do you have kids? A son, perhaps? Let's hope he never gets stubborn and rebellious, or you'll have to stone him to death

And if he manages to survive long enough to get through that phase, I sure hope he doesn't try to convert you to another religion, because you'll have to kill him for that, too

And he'd better not be gay either, because that's an abomination

Hey, you're quids in if you've got a daughter though, because it's A-OK to sell her into slavery... wonder if eBay allow that?

Before you do that though, you should check whether she's on her period before having any contact with her, as menstruating women are unclean, and contaminate anything they touch

Hope you don't like eating shellfish either, 'cuz those are an abomination too

Of course, you can make it real nice and easy by just sticking to the Ten Commandments, right? I mean, you can't go wrong there, surely. Except which of the three different sets should you use?

The Bible doesn't say sex is wrong, the Bible does say pornography is wrong, and lusting after another woman in your heart means you already comitted adultery. The Bible also says adulterers, fornicators, liars, thieves, murderers and drunks will not enter the kingdom of heaven. Lest they repent and abandon their ways.

Is pornography wrong? As a Christian, I obviously think so. I used to be addicted to it from an early age, but thanks to God I am free from it now.

So you draw your morality from the bible?
Jolly good.

Do you have kids? A son, perhaps? Let's hope he never gets stubborn and rebellious, or you'll have to stone him to death

And if he manages to survive long enough to get through that phase, I sure hope he doesn't try to convert you to another religion, because you'll have to kill him for that, too

And he'd better not be gay either, because that's an abomination

Hey, you're quids in if you've got a daughter though, because it's A-OK to sell her into slavery... wonder if eBay allow that?

Before you do that though, you should check whether she's on her period before having any contact with her, as menstruating women are unclean, and contaminate anything they touch

Hope you don't like eating shellfish either, 'cuz those are an abomination too

Of course, you can make it real nice and easy by just sticking to the Ten Commandments, right? I mean, you can't go wrong there, surely. Except which of the three different sets should you use?

The Bible doesn't say sex is wrong, the Bible does say pornography is wrong, and lusting after another woman in your heart means you already comitted adultery. The Bible also says adulterers, fornicators, liars, thieves, murderers and drunks will not enter the kingdom of heaven. Lest they repent and abandon their ways.

Is pornography wrong? As a Christian, I obviously think so. I used to be addicted to it from an early age, but thanks to God I am free from it now.

So you draw your morality from the bible?
Jolly good.

Do you have kids? A son, perhaps? Let's hope he never gets stubborn and rebellious, or you'll have to stone him to death

And if he manages to survive long enough to get through that phase, I sure hope he doesn't try to convert you to another religion, because you'll have to kill him for that, too

And he'd better not be gay either, because that's an abomination

Hey, you're quids in if you've got a daughter though, because it's A-OK to sell her into slavery... wonder if eBay allow that?

Before you do that though, you should check whether she's on her period before having any contact with her, as menstruating women are unclean, and contaminate anything they touch

Hope you don't like eating shellfish either, 'cuz those are an abomination too

Of course, you can make it real nice and easy by just sticking to the Ten Commandments, right? I mean, you can't go wrong there, surely. Except which of the three different sets should you use?

The Bible doesn't say sex is wrong, the Bible does say pornography is wrong, and lusting after another woman in your heart means you already comitted adultery. The Bible also says adulterers, fornicators, liars, thieves, murderers and drunks will not enter the kingdom of heaven. Lest they repent and abandon their ways.

Is pornography wrong? As a Christian, I obviously think so. I used to be addicted to it from an early age, but thanks to God I am free from it now.

So you draw your morality from the bible?
Jolly good.

Do you have kids? A son, perhaps? Let's hope he never gets stubborn and rebellious, or you'll have to stone him to death

And if he manages to survive long enough to get through that phase, I sure hope he doesn't try to convert you to another religion, because you'll have to kill him for that, too

And he'd better not be gay either, because that's an abomination

Hey, you're quids in if you've got a daughter though, because it's A-OK to sell her into slavery... wonder if eBay allow that?

Before you do that though, you should check whether she's on her period before having any contact with her, as menstruating women are unclean, and contaminate anything they touch

Hope you don't like eating shellfish either, 'cuz those are an abomination too

Of course, you can make it real nice and easy by just sticking to the Ten Commandments, right? I mean, you can't go wrong there, surely. Except which of the three different sets should you use?

The Bible doesn't say sex is wrong, the Bible does say pornography is wrong, and lusting after another woman in your heart means you already comitted adultery. The Bible also says adulterers, fornicators, liars, thieves, murderers and drunks will not enter the kingdom of heaven. Lest they repent and abandon their ways.

Is pornography wrong? As a Christian, I obviously think so. I used to be addicted to it from an early age, but thanks to God I am free from it now.

So you draw your morality from the bible?
Jolly good.

Do you have kids? A son, perhaps? Let's hope he never gets stubborn and rebellious, or you'll have to stone him to death

And if he manages to survive long enough to get through that phase, I sure hope he doesn't try to convert you to another religion, because you'll have to kill him for that, too

And he'd better not be gay either, because that's an abomination

Hey, you're quids in if you've got a daughter though, because it's A-OK to sell her into slavery... wonder if eBay allow that?

Before you do that though, you should check whether she's on her period before having any contact with her, as menstruating women are unclean, and contaminate anything they touch

Hope you don't like eating shellfish either, 'cuz those are an abomination too

Of course, you can make it real nice and easy by just sticking to the Ten Commandments, right? I mean, you can't go wrong there, surely. Except which of the three different sets should you use?

The Bible doesn't say sex is wrong, the Bible does say pornography is wrong, and lusting after another woman in your heart means you already comitted adultery. The Bible also says adulterers, fornicators, liars, thieves, murderers and drunks will not enter the kingdom of heaven. Lest they repent and abandon their ways.

Is pornography wrong? As a Christian, I obviously think so. I used to be addicted to it from an early age, but thanks to God I am free from it now.

So you draw your morality from the bible?
Jolly good.

Do you have kids? A son, perhaps? Let's hope he never gets stubborn and rebellious, or you'll have to stone him to death

And if he manages to survive long enough to get through that phase, I sure hope he doesn't try to convert you to another religion, because you'll have to kill him for that, too

And he'd better not be gay either, because that's an abomination

Hey, you're quids in if you've got a daughter though, because it's A-OK to sell her into slavery... wonder if eBay allow that?

Before you do that though, you should check whether she's on her period before having any contact with her, as menstruating women are unclean, and contaminate anything they touch

Hope you don't like eating shellfish either, 'cuz those are an abomination too

Of course, you can make it real nice and easy by just sticking to the Ten Commandments, right? I mean, you can't go wrong there, surely. Except which of the three different sets should you use?

The Bible doesn't say sex is wrong, the Bible does say pornography is wrong, and lusting after another woman in your heart means you already comitted adultery. The Bible also says adulterers, fornicators, liars, thieves, murderers and drunks will not enter the kingdom of heaven. Lest they repent and abandon their ways.

Is pornography wrong? As a Christian, I obviously think so. I used to be addicted to it from an early age, but thanks to God I am free from it now.

So you draw your morality from the bible?
Jolly good.

Do you have kids? A son, perhaps? Let's hope he never gets stubborn and rebellious, or you'll have to stone him to death

And if he manages to survive long enough to get through that phase, I sure hope he doesn't try to convert you to another religion, because you'll have to kill him for that, too

And he'd better not be gay either, because that's an abomination

Hey, you're quids in if you've got a daughter though, because it's A-OK to sell her into slavery... wonder if eBay allow that?

Before you do that though, you should check whether she's on her period before having any contact with her, as menstruating women are unclean, and contaminate anything they touch

Hope you don't like eating shellfish either, 'cuz those are an abomination too

Of course, you can make it real nice and easy by just sticking to the Ten Commandments, right? I mean, you can't go wrong there, surely. Except which of the three different sets should you use?

Whoever modded the parent as flamebait needs to go and read their bible a bit more carefully, because there's a hell of a lot of sex, not to mention what it has to say about women . If you think porn is degrading to women, you REALLY need to read the Bible - y'know it tells us to check whether a woman is on her period before having any contact with her at all, as menstruating women are so filthy, dirty, and basically unclean that everything she so much as touches is unclean for a week!

Oh, and if family values is your thing - well, the Bible's got plenty to say about that too

Whoever modded the parent as flamebait needs to go and read their bible a bit more carefully, because there's a hell of a lot of sex, not to mention what it has to say about women . If you think porn is degrading to women, you REALLY need to read the Bible - y'know it tells us to check whether a woman is on her period before having any contact with her at all, as menstruating women are so filthy, dirty, and basically unclean that everything she so much as touches is unclean for a week!

Oh, and if family values is your thing - well, the Bible's got plenty to say about that too

Whoever modded the parent as flamebait needs to go and read their bible a bit more carefully, because there's a hell of a lot of sex, not to mention what it has to say about women . If you think porn is degrading to women, you REALLY need to read the Bible - y'know it tells us to check whether a woman is on her period before having any contact with her at all, as menstruating women are so filthy, dirty, and basically unclean that everything she so much as touches is unclean for a week!

Oh, and if family values is your thing - well, the Bible's got plenty to say about that too

Whoever modded the parent as flamebait needs to go and read their bible a bit more carefully, because there's a hell of a lot of sex, not to mention what it has to say about women . If you think porn is degrading to women, you REALLY need to read the Bible - y'know it tells us to check whether a woman is on her period before having any contact with her at all, as menstruating women are so filthy, dirty, and basically unclean that everything she so much as touches is unclean for a week!

Oh, and if family values is your thing - well, the Bible's got plenty to say about that too

I think it's Lot, I'm not sure and my Bible is packed in a box, so I can't look it up

Time for my clippy impersonation...
Sounds like you're referring to Gen:19 5-8

You might also be interested in the rest of the Skeptic's Annotated Bible - a fantastic website containing the complete, unaltered KJV bible, that also happens to have sidenotes pointing out the contradictions, absurdities, morally questionable, and other interesting bits.

Finally, Lot is called "Just" and "Righteous" in 2 Pet.2:7-8, but the bible tells us on several occasions that There are no just or righteous people
Good thing nobody bases their lives or morality around this book! Just think how confused they'd be!

I think it's Lot, I'm not sure and my Bible is packed in a box, so I can't look it up

Time for my clippy impersonation...
Sounds like you're referring to Gen:19 5-8

You might also be interested in the rest of the Skeptic's Annotated Bible - a fantastic website containing the complete, unaltered KJV bible, that also happens to have sidenotes pointing out the contradictions, absurdities, morally questionable, and other interesting bits.

Finally, Lot is called "Just" and "Righteous" in 2 Pet.2:7-8, but the bible tells us on several occasions that There are no just or righteous people
Good thing nobody bases their lives or morality around this book! Just think how confused they'd be!

I think it's Lot, I'm not sure and my Bible is packed in a box, so I can't look it up

Time for my clippy impersonation...
Sounds like you're referring to Gen:19 5-8

You might also be interested in the rest of the Skeptic's Annotated Bible - a fantastic website containing the complete, unaltered KJV bible, that also happens to have sidenotes pointing out the contradictions, absurdities, morally questionable, and other interesting bits.

Finally, Lot is called "Just" and "Righteous" in 2 Pet.2:7-8, but the bible tells us on several occasions that There are no just or righteous people
Good thing nobody bases their lives or morality around this book! Just think how confused they'd be!