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Someone moderate the parent up further. I would, but I felt like posting instead.

The idea of a DVD boycott is laughable. It's tantamount to saying, "Hey, everybody, let's cut off a portion of our anatomy to spite the thing it is attached to! Yes, let's deny ourselves enjoyment of something, so we can bitch and whine about it to all and sundry, and thus have sneering rights at their refusal to support our holy war!" It's not being righteous, it's being self-righteous. Bleah. Every time I see someone whining about boycotting DVDs, it makes me want to go right out and buy three more.

Realistically speaking, you're never going to get even enough Slashdot posters--who tend to have the attention span and love of bright and shiny things of Kiki from Sluggy Freelance--to join the boycott, let alone the average citizens (of whom you need a lot if your boycott is to have any effect, or even be noticed). There's still an astounding number of people who don't realize why those black bars are on their screen; think someone of that persuasion is going to care about alphabet soup and free use rights?

Me, I'll continue to watch DVDs and be happy. Why, I just received a Region 2 The Last Unicorn disc from Amazon.de; it's really great! (And seeing a trailer for the Thomas the Tank Engine movie in German is really funky.)

What would it have cost to do the same thing if you'd started 10 years earlier? Personally I'm in awe of the fact that so much can be done with so little today. I only hope this new meduim isn't choked off by "status quo" laws like the DMCA.

As for making money... 82,500 visitors a year (226/day) for 4 years. I'd put some banners up. Attempting to avoid banners entirely really will keep you from making money. Every successful(financially) site I've ever seen uses banners of one form or another(yes I consider google adwords, and many other things, to be banners). For those that *hate* banners you could have a $ubscription $ervice. My favorite comic does just this.

226 visitors a day is a fair number, and it should be enough to offset your $5000/year, but it certainly isn't enough to make a living off of. I'd say for each "devoted"(ie: daily) user expect no more than $50/year in earnings. 226*$50 = $11,300/year. That should be the most you could reasonably expect to earn off the traffic you currently have. (assuming constant traffic all 4 years) That's when you use banners and all other tools at your disposal. Without them it's obviously much less. Honestly, I have to admit, if banners are done correctly I actually *like* them. (correctly means small targeted and no flashing!)

With apologies to Sluggy Freelance

Sluggy, like most web comics, if you jump into it at a late date, makes no sense...you have to go to the beginning.
Even then, well, it grows on you. And who does not like "Bun-bun"...a switchblade toting mini-lop...heh.

Link whoring biatch that I can be: PVP, GPF, Sherman's Lagoon a long time favorite of mine, Dilbert of course, and one that was pointed out to me recently: Non-Sequitur and, of course, Userfriendly.

What is the common thread amongst all those sites I'd recommend? Intelligence, humor, referrences to other events (this usually escapes some of the younger crowd/moderators/slashdroids, no offense) and some funny characters, situations and all.

If you look at the comics on the links /. gave, well...I random sampled and was not impressed.

That's my opinion,

Cheers,

Moose.

All the Sluggy Freelance Books!!!

Is it not nifty??

I was actually dissapointed at the quality of the print-outs. The halftone function wasn't carefully selected and many of the sunday strips (as well as a couple of the regular ones) are a blotch of black ink.

My other complain is that, in light of the price (US$12.95 list), I had expected some original, non-web, content. Contrast with the Sluggy Freelance books (to name just one example) which are not only of atonishing quality for the price, but has color pages too ("Game called on account of naked chick").

Complain about Erwin not being as good nor showing as often as three years ago avoided.

Same reason a demon from the Dimension of Pain attacks Torg every Halloween?

mmmm... Sluggy....

Gasp! Shades of Sluggy Freelance!

I have had my Winux 2004 shirt for awhile now. Pete Abrams is a prophet.

I have had my Winux 2004 shirt for awhile now. Pete Abrams is a prophet.

http://www.sluggy.com/daily.php?date=990702

Riff: "Straight-pins vs. inflatable technology: the straight-pin always wins" [sluggy.com]

Now I am starting to get scared.

Hear, hear! It's one thing for a site to just have obnoxious ads, but it's wholly another for that site to have a combination of ads and ad-free subscription. I've taken advantage of this already on a couple of sites that I want to support. E.g. Sluggy Freelance (one of my fave webcomics) and The Weather Underground both have ad-free subscription services that I've chosen to use.</Shameless Plug>

In fact, this is even better for my personal web usage style than ads, because I virtually NEVER click through, except to occasionlly support a site by clicking through! It's ironic that the 'net is my primary source of pre-purchase information, yet web ads rarely if ever play a part in that process.

Personally, I don't read the comics section of the newspaper any more. Tools like comics.pl just make it unnecessary.

Since then, Breathed, Watterson, and Larson have all retired and the newspaper comics aren't very enjoyable for me today. Occasionally Fox Trot will still be amusing, and of course Dilbert is very witty, but you never get a chance to see anything impressive visually. Maybe the internet will pick up the slack? Sluggy Freelance (to pick a random example) has had amazing storylines spanning months, and the artist is free to create whatever kind of strip he wants, without censorship, ridiculous format demands, or any other unnecessary crap. Now, if only being profitable was easier...

I currently read 12 online comics daily (or however often the unpaid artists can manage, and would like to think that the majority of them are really good. Apart from anything else, they are often very original and interesting.

I think that Sluggy Freelance could do with some fresh ideas, but at least Pete's trying right now, and the current story line no longer sucks the way it did at the start.

Sluggy Freelance Probably the best online comic.. Read the whole archive :)
Megatokyo Rather good as well, a mix of gaming and anime
Winter A new one, started this monday, looks promising.
Exploitation Now Chicks. Violence. R-Rated stuff. Read it :)
Penny Arcade Duh.
Dilbert Classics are good too..

Once again, Sluggy Freelance has been passed over in an online article/discussion about comics. It has everything that Salon is bringing up as salient points: long story arcs (not quite as long as the mentioned College Roomies from Hell, but they do intersect and elements from previous arcs come back in later ones), micro-payments, the ability for the artist to make the majority of his money off of it (witness the actual bound books available through Plan 9 Publishing, as well as the assorted "goodies" you can buy), and solid artwork (those who've read Gaiman's Sandman may notice some influence in the often-hauntingly-beautiful The Bug, the Witch, and the Robot story arc may see some similarities)...

Why does it seem that Sluggy has become an online-comics pariah these days? User Friendly gets bashed for being too pro-geek (or whatever), which may or may not be a valid criticism. But Sluggy is just getting forgotten? What gives?

Once again, Sluggy Freelance has been passed over in an online article/discussion about comics. It has everything that Salon is bringing up as salient points: long story arcs (not quite as long as the mentioned College Roomies from Hell, but they do intersect and elements from previous arcs come back in later ones), micro-payments, the ability for the artist to make the majority of his money off of it (witness the actual bound books available through Plan 9 Publishing, as well as the assorted "goodies" you can buy), and solid artwork (those who've read Gaiman's Sandman may notice some influence in the often-hauntingly-beautiful The Bug, the Witch, and the Robot story arc may see some similarities)...

Why does it seem that Sluggy has become an online-comics pariah these days? User Friendly gets bashed for being too pro-geek (or whatever), which may or may not be a valid criticism. But Sluggy is just getting forgotten? What gives?

You can also get all of these books (and others) directly from Plan 9. They give the authors more royalties for those sales.

Also, if you're going to start reading Sluggy Freelance, I highly recommend you start from the first strip. Everything makes so much more sense that way.

This is why it makes significantly more sense these days to pay a much larger fee for a much larger period of time. Instead of paying Slashdot $.01 every time you read an article, you could have an online account. You'd fill it with, say, $10.00 and be able to read 1000 articles without having to worry about further payments. This is how Sluggy Freelance works for paying customers. IIRC, you pay the author $10 or so, and you get a year of sluggy. Thats about $.027 per comic, but you don't end up paying for 300 transaction fees.(Keep in mind that the author also has an ad filled version of the site, and still sells dead trees)
This also answers another posters concern, that they'd have to worry about the tab they were ringing up when they go online- you'd simply have an account that would slowly drain as you used a given service. I don't necessarily endorse the idea of paying for some types of content(ie, MSDN news or something of the sort), but I do like to support independent artists such as Pete Abrams.

Alex Magidow

There's a lot of reasons why I won't pay for content. There's also some reasons I will. It all depends on the circumstances.

Reasons I won't pay:

1. What am I getting for my money?

When someone pays for something, an assumption is made about the quality of the purchased item, be it information, software, books or what-have you. This is based on the fact that real-life businesses are subject to a host of regulations, and it's easy to enforce. A real-life business owner can't just make his building disappear when the feds get wind of his fraud. So if he sells you an empty box, you're gonna be back -- not only that, but you're gonna be back pissed, and you're gonna be back with the cops.

In contrast, websites, even ones which are just selling information, have a serious problem in that area: if they screw up, it's easy to take a website offline fast. Sure, you might be able to track down the original owner, but that's a lot of work, and a whole host of techniques are available to muddy the waters if you're on the hiding end. This leads us to the second problem:

2. Are they liable? Hell, are they accurate?
There's no guarantee if you buy medical advice from a website that it won't kill little Jimmy in the ICU. There's no guarantee if you buy car advice that your engine won't blow up in your face. All bets are off.

Basically, whereas brick-and-mortar businesses are subject to laws and litigation (so they HAVE to verify their information, and they CAN be sued), online content providers aren't. But don't rush to legislate -- people who actually make the laws have demonstrable short-sightedness towards that sort of thing (*coughcough*DMCA*coughcough*). Do you really want your personal video game tips fined because you didn't verify a tip a reader sent in? Laws filtered through government bodies tend to accumulate problems as they go. For that matter, do you really want your government feeling like they can meddle freely? Personally, I suspect that any attempt to legislate such things would be (a) internationally unenforceable and (b) host to a staggering number of problems.

3. How much is it gonna cost me?
People have an overinflated sense of their own self-worth, as demonstrated by things like shareware pricing. I'm not likely to pay $20 for a webpage -- any webpage.
Furthermore, do I have to subscribe? I'm not likely to pay $5 a month either. I don't like recurring charges.

4. What happens if the site folds?
Sites are temporary things. They're arbitrarily killed off all the time. If I've paid for content, what happens if it goes away?

5. Who am I paying?

If I'm paying, say, Pete Abrams, I'm happy to do so (Sluggy's stayed free and is now Pete's full time career -- see, it does work). If I'm gonna be lining the pockets of some RIAA fatcat, I'm more likely to decide that they've already got more than a fair amount of my money.

6. How easy is it to pay?
I'm not willing to put a lot of effort into the deal. If you want me to give you money, you'd better make it easy for me to do so.

7. What's the atmosphere of the site?
(This one sounds weird, I know, but humor me.)
I don't like being pestered incessantly. Pop-ups and the like irritate the bejeezus out of me. Make me like your site, and I'm more willing to help out. Also, if I'm paying, I don't want to see banner ads -- or any ads, really. The whole point of paying is to create a revenue stream, after all. Lots of sites are latching on to this idea -- for example, for a fee you can get Sluggy ad-free. Lots of us still use the free, ad-supported version, but Pete reports that ad-free Sluggy is doing very well.

8. What am I getting for my money, anyway?
Lots of sites insist on a prior payment method, where you pay before you actually see the content. And this makes sense, to a degree -- why would you pay for content you can get in a demo? Some sites realize this, and provide a sample, but others go the all-or-nothing route. And even if you've seen the sample, you have no way of knowing that the rest of the site's as good.

And last but not least:
9. Does your site WORK?
Everyone hates broken links. Everyone hates missing files. Take better care of your sites, folks, or you'll never get anyone to pay you.

(There are people who do a good job with this. They're just outweighed by the crap.)

I have paid for things before. Tipjars and optional payments and such do work. But if you want mandatory payments from me, you'd better make sure that I'm gonna get something for my money -- and that I know it.

That's what advertizements are for. Content (be it the Internet, Television, or Print Magazines) have a customer, and its generally not the reader. Its the advertizers. The reader is what they market to the advertizer.

That's why most television programming you don't have to pay for. That's why Newspapers (and their websites) come cheap or completely free. And that's the way its been for who knows how long (I'd say at least twenty years, most likely since the dawn of Radio).

There are exceptions. The exceptions are stuff like HBO, Cinemax, and other pay channels. In return, you get premium content, as well as complete removal of commericals. That _is_ something that people are willing to pay for.

A good example of this can be found at Sluggy Freelance, where you can get an ad free version of the site, if you pay.


---

Scientists and inventors help make a writer's imagination reality. Sluggy Freelance

I think other people in this discussion have hit the nail on the head when they said it's not about content or dissenting opinions, it's about ad revenue dwindling and vanishing. Look at Keenspot and Sluggy Freelance, both of which have instituted "if you pay us, you'll be supporting our site(s) and you won't have to see banner ads" programs. Look at Themestream, which went belly-up, and TheVines, which looks like it's also headed for extinction. Look at all the free ISPs that have either vanished or consolidated and cut way back on the services they offer. Banner ads just don't work.

There definitely does need to be a new model for websites to earn revenue. The problem is, nobody's really sure just what it is yet. Tipping might work, but only if the tipper is willing to subscribe to the payment service used by the tippee. Micropayments sound good, but there are a whole bunch of hurdles in the way, and there's no more venture capital to develop such a system.

Whatever happens, it seems like ad banners are rapidly becoming so ineffective now that having them at all is tantamount to a superstitious gesture, like crossing your fingers or putting a horseshoe up over the door--it makes you feel better, but doesn't actually do anything.
--

Actually, the Sluggy Freelance online comic is going this route- donate ten bucks, and you get the daily comic page without any banner ads, for one year.

Or someone else's sweater perhaps? (evil grin) Gives this sluggy comic a new shot at reality. :)

So what's wrong with supporting sites by providing an occasional click-through to their ad banners, that no one has brought it up? I make a point of going through my favorite content sites (shameless plug for Sluggy here, as an example), reloading the page and clicking-through on the banners a few times. It's not tons of revenue, I'm aware, but it helps - and if more fans did that on occasion, wouldn't the sites get a bit of a boost?

I'm aware that, at some point of saturation, click-throughs would be meaningless to the ad vendors and payments would decrease/cease altogether, but it's a nice intermediate way to provide a little help to artists/writers/producers-of-things-of-value-to-me in the current atmosphere.

...in Riff's arsenal. You paying attention, Pete?

Seriously, at 20000m/s, that would probably sound-off like a siren. Probably not suitable for hunting.
Thus sprach DrQu+xum.

I love the idea of micropayments in an abstract sense, but can't see how they'd work for the user. The questions are: What is the user experience? Where do you put the pay box?

The models would seem to be:

1. ask the user to pay before viewing the content. Effectively, this is a subscription model. It's feasible if your users know they're going to get something good, but really is only practical for established sites (or porn, it seems). Up front payment for individuals will very rarely work.
2. ask the user to pay after viewing. This is the approach most compatible with how the Net works today (particularly in terms of random linkage), but is probably least likely to produce a decent revenue stream. The site developer will get very direct feedback about how good their stuff is this week, though.
3. ask the user to pay after seeing a teaser. A lot of consultancies operate this way, but I don't know how well this would work on web page content; it might annoy a lot of people.

The basic problem, though, is that most of the stuff on the Net is currently free at point of use, and getting people to change their habits after all this time will be very very difficult indeed. Look how successful Slate was when they tried it.

My favourite approach would probably post-payment, but with a user-entered amount. Enthusiastic readers can really display their enthusiasm then.

Failing that, there's always merchandising - but you need a very specific kind of site for that. It works for Sluggy, but I doubt it would be quite as effective for Pigeon Racer's Monthly.

More because I'm bored than because I actually believe anyone will follow the link, read my magnificent comic - Pete the Carnivorous Plant.

I thank you.

Nah, on second thoughts, sluggy is much better. Go there.

CloudWarrior .o. "I may be in the gutter but I look to the stars"

And Sluggy Freelance (long, complex, and interesting story arcs, which are hillarious to boot), Penny Arcade (extreme funny), Player vs Player (more fun(ny) with gaming), Sinfest (offensive and funny), and Adventurers (hillarious -- but only if you play console RPG's)! There are so many awesome web comics!

------

For the not-so-faint-of-heart, keenspot has a great "List Of Potentially Offensive Webcomics". Classics such as SpaceMoose, and Celebrity Car Wash figure prominently. Also contains links to the newer low brow comics on the web.

On a completely different note, here are my personal faves: Penny Arcade, Sluggy Freelance, Exploitation Now!, MegaTokyo, Red Meat, HotenDotey, and Jerk City.

I am sure I forgot a couple of my regulars, but these are the major ones.

Can't believe you missed Sluggy Freelance Seeing as how it's an option on a slashbox and all. That's www.sluggy.com for you goatse.cx paranoid.

With so many cartoons out there, why do so many of them suck? For starters we have: Dave, Cathy, Family Circus and Spiderman! I mean, if these people just looked around they could find some good cartoons like Penny Arcade, Sluggy Freelance, and some of the stuff on Keenspace, like MacHall. I'm sure there are a bunch of starving comic writers who are dying for syndication while a lot of cartoons that really suck are being published.

How could they do an article onWeb comics and leave out Sluggy Freelance. That's the funniest and most innovative of the online comics I've seen and I've read most of the ones they listed.

************************************************ ** *

************************************************ ** *

One of the marks of a mature OS. I'm glad to hear that a major linux distro has it... Corel did a good job on my P75, but it's all stock hardware.
What REALLY impressed me was the QNX demo. It installed on my system, automatically loaded drivers for my mouse, cdroms, etc, then it automatically set up their mini-X on my Voodoo 3 at 1024x768 (NO MODELINES!!! Woohoo!) and what REALLY knocked my socks off - It even set up my printer, I was able to print Sluggy Freelance on my Epson Colour 740 by simply hitting the print button! All this in 15 minutes!
Anyway, automatic hardware detection will rawk. I've got about 15 different computers a month that get debian installed on them. (Or re-installed, due to hardware failures, etc.)
I think that the Debian guys deserve a big slashdot hug.
---

Times 365 equals 91.25$ a year maybe, but it's still only 25 cents a day.

/. is easily that nifty, I'd say. It's now as much of a part of my daily routine as the morning paper, and 25c is comparable to what my family pays every morning for the funny papers. (the local paper sucks, and the only reason to buy it is for the extra comics you can read each morning)

Also, /. readers have introduced me to all sorts of cool stuff. Sluggy Freelance. Megatokyo. And I get commentaries from intelligent geeks around the world, introducing me to topics like power generation lines and all sorts of weird, wonderful things. It's easily worth the price of a subscription to magazines like Discover, Scientific American, or the Smithsonian.

In short, you're one cheap bastard if you'd only pay 10$ a yr to feed CmdrTaco and friends. Either that, or your thresholds are too low. I usually go at 3+, nested, highest first.(When I don't have moderator access) It's AMAZING how good the comments are at that level.

-----
IANASRP- I am not a self-referential phrase
-----

Fidonet nodelists were distributed in a manner (in australia, at least) that you could miss a patch and it would still work. Also seem to rememeber MBBS having something similar to this too.
I'm just about to jump on a plane to India (sigh), so don't have time to read he comments at the moment. Hopefully will have half an hour in Sydney airport on the internet PC there, if not, will be using Singapore airport's net access (free 802.11, woop!)

--Rob

Comics:
Sluggy.com - Poing!

DEATH TO MODERN-DAY ADVERTISING!!! Today's ads don't just inform us of a product's existence; they also prey on our minds with flashing text, glitzy graphics, buzzwords by the dozen, and little white lies. Fortunately, we have the right to censor those ads; unfortunately, not all of us have the knowledge to do so. I'm striving to change that.

Hear, hear. What better way to encourage individuals to set up and maintain sites like SomethingAwful?

"Hey, I like your site and visit it every day, but no way in HELL am I gonna contribute to YOUR banner revenue!"

There are a handful of really quality websites out there that are run by dedicated individuals who generally end up paying considerable sums out of their own pockets to provide the world with their site. Pete at Sluggy Freelance is one. Jon at Goats is another. They're great people, and they pour a great deal of personal time, thought and energy into something that generally ends up costing them money. The more people there are blocking the ads on their site, the more they need to pay out of their own pocket to keep their site going.

I honestly hope your little crusade to "educate" people into blocking ads falls on it's ass. I don't like that Treeloot monkey much, either, but I'm not enough of a jerk to deny the keepers of my favorite sites what little return for their investment they get.

Or had you never really considered that you were telling the guy who writes all that stuff you really like to go piss up a rope?

information wants to be expensive...nothing is so valuable as the right information at the right time.

Well, if that is true, why they hell is Hemos 'queue'ing stories? Aren't we good enough to get the stories straight away? Are we on a diet? I mean, it's pretty obvious that things are often posted without even the slightest bit of checking, ref the 'Apple Sues FreeType' post of a week or so ago... The link referenced in the published story had no relation to it, and even a 1/4 second browse of the title of the article on lwn would have verified it. Perhaps there's an 'idiot check' delay? I don't know.
Another newdot.org suggestion (the domain is available, someone get to it): let people read pending posts. Only let registered people submit stories, but anon accounts can only post, say, 5 a day. If an account trolls the submission queue, disable it from further submissions.

Comics:
Sluggy.com - Poing!

The one with Zoe on the front in her 'Little Devil' outfit with the fishnets and leotard. Whoohoo!

While the idea of micropayments seems a little more friendly to the music industry, I can see how online artists (rightfully) want their slice too. What I think will be infinitely more successful than micropayments, however, is merchandising. There is a wealth of Sluggy Freelance mugs, shirts, and even books available. Elf Life, one of the most popular strips around, has offered a cast shirt and the artist who drawsAcid Reflux offers an original art service where she draws pictures of your favorite RPG or MMOG character.

Even some fanauthors/artists are getting into the act by offering merchandise with pictures of original characters or logos.

Micropayments are good, but I htink that merchandising is the way to go for the online artist if he wants to profit from his work.

I submitted this before there was even a page on CNN. *grumble*
Comics:
Sluggy.com - Poing!

I'm dead sereous... check for yourself
And behold the true face of santa..

I'm dead sereous... check for yourself
And behold the true face of santa..

May I say, simply, YES! Thank you, Australian Government! However, I hate to admit, our goverment is so spineless (an amobea has more of a verterbre than our current government) that Sony or someone will frown slightly, or raise an eyebrow, and the guys in the big-white-funny-looking-building will do their usual belly-crawling and say 'Oh no, it was a big misunderstanding'

No, not cynical. Realistic.

--Rob

Comics:
Sluggy.com - Poing!

Let me check my notes....

Who do you mean, Torg? Somehow having him come to the rescue doesn't instill in me the feeling of peace that you suggest...