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If you are British don't forget that our arse-licking government has made an "agreement" where the USA can extradite anyone without showing they have a case, even for crimes committed in the UK. See here and here for details. So if a record company thinks you might have have duplicated a disk, or videoed someone singing happy birthday you could be whisked of to the states just like that.

Yeah, it's almost as bad as if millions of government spy cameras were watching every single thing we do in public. Man, I can't imagine a country doing that!

and lets face it terrorism (yes its an overused bogeyman, but if you traveled to work everyday in London via the tube, it would seem important to you)

I do travel to work every day by tube, central line, from Zone 6 in the east, through the centre, to Zone 2 in the west. I spend 2 hours a day on it, half of that is in deep tube (most of the July 7th casualties were on the picadilly line as it's so confined). Terrorism doens't concern me, the lack of police on the streets does, the fact that when they are allowed to get out of the office and capture criminals they often get off lightly. The fact even when they don't get off lightly, and there's a near-100% chance of being caught, it still goes on, it's a cancer in society that more surveilance of the 99% of people that don't cause the problems won't cure. Even when you get a decent CCTV image, how often are perpertrators identified? Of course that's a good excuse for face recognition on CCTV. But how to you find them once you identify them -- how about a nationwide searchable database with everyone's location on it.

People aren't as concerned with drivers causing over 20,000 deaths in the UK this decade, a number that hasn't wavered despite the massive increase in surveilance (and associated decrease in real patrols, and increase in car safety). 50 deaths from terrorism in the same time doesn't even register. People aren't even concerned about the numbers of unregistered, uninsured cars on our streets, especially in London (which the cameras don't catch up on).

The problem isn't when Labour are in power. As bad as our current government is, they aren't ones to go Mugabe on everyone. The danger isn't even if the BNP come to power. It's the present thread of when someone hacks into the centralised database, or buys their way in. Right now people with convictions for pretty nasty crimes can get your name and address and come around and intimidate you into paying them large sums of money without due process. If the information is collected, it will be sold and stolen.

• Mass Surveillance
  
• Police state
  
• Criminalized society
  
• Centraliztion and resale of citizens personal data - without their permission
  
• Fortunately, the inner-party elite that did this to us are about to be expelled
  

I don't have the energy to refute all of the points in Tony Blair's response, but here are a couple of quick comments.

it is clear that if we want to travel abroad, we will soon have no choice but to have a biometric passport.

This is a red herring that is repeated with annoying frequency. ICAO requirements state that the only required biometric is a digitised photo, which new UK passports already contain. There's no need for fingerprints, retinal scans, etc.

Secure identities will also help us counter the fast-growing problem of identity fraud. This already costs £1.7 billion annually.

The majority of fraud reported as "identity fraud" is credit card fraud. ID cards will be no use at stopping this, unless you require people to show their ID when buying anything. In particular, the "£1.7 billion" figure is nonsense.

I also believe that the National Identity Register will help police bring those guilty of serious crimes to justice. They will be able, for example, to compare the fingerprints found at the scene of some 900,000 unsolved crimes against the information held on the register. Another benefit from biometric technology will be to improve the flow of information between countries on the identity of offenders.

Nice to know that the Government has already gone back on its assurance in 2005 that the ID register wouldn't be used for "fishing expeditions" - also nice to know that our details will be shared with some unspecified other countries.

The additional cost of the ID cards is expected to be less than £30 or £3 a year for their 10-year lifespan.

Not according to an independent report.

With a new database the government could get round this by specifying a very broad range of purposes for the data (as Transport For London did with the Oyster card), but that tactic can't be applied to an existing database.

Of course, I found this interesting blog post from several years ago: http://www.spy.org.uk/spyblog/2004/02/foiling_the_ oyster_card.html

I just wish TfL would get the bloody Silverlink / North London Line railways on the system rather than posting stormtrooper rent-a-cops at selected stations on random mornings. I actually do pay my fare, but I'm deeply distressed by the rudeness of some of the non-TfL staff. Treat customers not as potential fare-evaders but customers!

1. PNR record locator code
2. Date of reservation
3. Date(s) of intended travel
4. Name
5. Other names on PNR
6. Address
7. All forms of payment information
8. Billing address
9. Contact telephone numbers
10. All travel itinerary for specific PNR
11. Frequent flyer information (limited to miles flown and address(es))
12. Travel agency
13. Travel agent
14. Code share PNR information
15. Travel status of passenger
16. Split/Divided PNR information
17. Email address
18. Ticketing field information
19. General remarks
20. Ticket number
21. Seat number
22. Date of ticket issuance
23. No show history
24. Bag tag numbers
25. Go show information
26. OSI information
27. SSI/SSR information
28. Received from information
29. All historical changes to the PNR
30. Number of travelers on PNR
31. Seat information
32. One-way tickets
33. Any collected APIS information
34. ATFQ fields"

BLOGGED BY Joseph Cannon ON 8/22/2006 7:23PM

The Men Who Knew Too Much? NSA Wiretapping Whistleblowers Found Dead in Italy and Greece

Adamo Bove and Costas Tsalikidis: Both uncovered a secret bugging system and both met untimely ends.

Was That Just A Coincidence? And Who Made Your Cell Phone?

Guest blogged by Joseph Cannon

Is someone murdering people who know too much about NSA wiretapping overseas?

Two whistleblowers -- one in Italy, one in Greece -- uncovered a secret bugging system installed in cell phones around the world. Both met with untimely ends. The resultant scandals have received little press in the United States, despite the profound implications for American critics of the Bush administration.

Last month, Italian telecommunications security expert Adamo Bove either leapt or was pushed from a freeway overpass; he left no note and had no history of depression. Last year (March, 2005), Greek telecommunications expert Costas Tsalikidis met with a similarly enigmatic end. Both had uncovered American attempts to eavesdrop on government officials, anti-war activists, and private businessmen.

The Bove case relates to the long-standing controversy over the CIA's kidnapping of cleric Abu Omar, who was flown to Egypt and tortured. The post-Berlusconi government of Italy is attempting to arrest and try all of the CIA personnel involved. Bove used mobile phone records to trace more than two dozen American agents.

Bove had also revealed that his employer, Telecom Italia, had allowed illegal "spyware" -- undetectable wiretaps -- to infest Italy's largest communications system. His testimony helped to uncover the unsettling relationship between SISMI chief Marco Mancini and Telecom Italia head Giuliano Tavaroli. (Mancini, recently arrested by Italian investigators, has also come under some suspicion for his possible role in the strange affair of Major General Nicola Calipari, killed by American troops in Iraq.) In the 1990s, Bove had received wide praise for helping to secure convictions of two bosses in the Camorra, Naples' answer to the Sicilian Mafia.

The case of Costas Tsalikidis -- an engineer for Vodaphone, Greece's top telecommunications firm -- offers a similar picture. Tsalikidis discovered an extraordinarily spohisticated piece of spyware within his company's network. The Prime Minister and other top officials were targeted, along with Greek military officers, anti-war activists, various business figures -- and a cell phone within the American embassy itself. This page gives a full list of the targets, very few of whom could be considered as having even a remote connection to terrorism.

As investigative journalists Paolo Pontoniere and Jeffrey Klein report:

The Vodaphone eavesdropping was transmitted in real time via four antennae located near the U.S. embassy in Athens, according to an 11-month Greek government investigation. Some of these transmissions were sent to a phone in Laurel, Md., near America's National Security Agency.

According to Ta Nea, a Greek newspaper, Vodafone's CEO privately told the Greek government that the bugging culprits were "U.S. agents." Because Greece's prime minister feared domestic protests and a diplomati

Posting this anonymously 'cos of mod points.
This is the UK. The Government doesn't do privacy, at least when it comes to the citizens. They want the police to have an eternal DNA database on everyone in the country. This will almost certainly be part of it.
See the following page for more concerns.
http://www.spy.org.uk/spyblog/2006/08/uk_biobank_w here_are_the_privacy_and_security_safeguards.html

-- 1984 was meant as a warning, not a howto.

Maybe it's the history of the British fight against the IRA, but it seems to me that the British people have been a little more tolerant of state intrusion than Americans. What I infer is happening now is that the overboard Orwellianism of the current British government is reaching a tipping point where a lot of Brits are wondering, "How much is too much?".

Your replies from Brits so far are quite informative in the sense of why Britons have been so tolerant. They have no idea how close Britain is to a totalitarian dictatorship.

This Government has already passed 2 truly totalitarian laws:

1. The Civil Contingencies Act, which is almost exactly the same as Hitler's Enabling Act.

2. The Identity Cards Act, which not only forces passport renewers on to a database, it also connects that database with 4 other significant databases (tax system, police records, ANPR & passports) thus creating the world's most intrusive database. It does not stop there either. There is nothing preventing our medical records, phone records, email & surfing records, credit card records etc being linked to the meta-database.

The Govt is trying to get a 3rd totalitarian law through, the Legislative and Regulatory Reform Bill. This, like the Civil Contingencies Act, grants almost unfettered power to a handful of people. While CCA requires an emergency to be declared and cannot abolish elections or amend the European Convention of Human Rights (its only limitations), legislation under LRRB currently requires approval (without debate) by both Houses and likewise cannot amend the ECHR. It's amended version is no less dangerous AFAIK.

There are also 4 anti-terror laws, all worse than your Patriot Act and two of which have been ruled to contravene the ECHR (both for locking people up without trial).

Thanks to people like Lord Phillips, the House of Lords has been doing a reasonable job of standing up to Blair's executive, with the two obvious exceptions above. They have very little power (which they are reluctant to use), merely being able to hold up a Bill for about a year. The Law Lords are not able to overturn laws, but simply rule them incompatible with other laws like the ECHR.

As I implied at the start, the reason we've allowed this is that almost no-one knows. I bet less than 1% of Britons have even heard of the Civil Contingencies Act.

We are not taught to scrutinise our Govt as I understand Americans are. We haven't had to fear our Govt in modern times, and most people who did were left wingers who voted for Blair and have been slow to realise how dangerous he is.
We also don't realise that Britain is an elective dictatorship which has respected freedoms only because of the benign nature of its governments. The Conservative opposition has been remarkably quiet as has the media until the last few months. I kid you not, if Britain survives this attack on our freedoms (and that's a big if) it will be because of blogs, unfunded campaigns, leaks and Blair's mistakes like Iraq & pushing for 90-days detention.

I wrote about Britain's remaining safeguards here.

The government of the USA has already shown a proclivity towards watching its citizens. To be fair, this phenomenon isn't limited to the USA, but Bush has taken it to new levels.

We now know that the government secretly had printer manufacturers embed hidden ID codes on printer's output, thereby removing any possibility of anonymous document creation.

I wouldn't be surprised if some enterprising Bush-ite didn't see the possibility here of having *every* keyboard manufactured with some form of this technology embedded. Imagine if the government could tell what you were typing just by listening to your traffic.

Think of the terrorists we could stop! Think of the children!

As soon as they can get the tech working, passport applicants/renewers will be entered on the National Identity Register (NIR). There is no opt out.

This NIR is initially planned to be linked to your tax records, police records, passport records and even the new Automated Number Plate Recogntion system which tracks all your car journeys.

This, of course, is just the beginning, but is already the world's most intrusive database on citizens, going further than even China. If Brown gets his way, it looks like your credit card transactions, phone calls & emails will soon be able to automatically flag you as a possible troublemaker.

Britain's democracy has failed to stop this. It will likewise not stop future governments of any variety abusing you via your data.

NO2ID has known about this all along and we have been telling anyone who would listen. The campaign is extremely well run and full of great people, but we need YOUR help to stop this Orwellian nightmare.

Sure thing...

I know it's hosted on the unreliable Infowars, but it's the only copy of The Independent's article I could find:
http://www.infowars.com/articles/terror/held_4_yea rs_never_even_questioned.htm

It took 3 years of being locked in a dungeon before our Law Lords ruled their imprisonment was incompatible with the HRA. The Govt's response was to push through the whole Prevention of Terrorism Act 2005 in 7 days saying that if it took any longer, these dangerous terrorists would be free to strike again.

As subsequently happened on the ID Cards Act, the elderly House of Lords were forced to stay up into the early hours of the morning and luckily not one of them died. This 3rd draconian 'anti-terror' Act (which can lock any of us up in our own homes without access to family indefinitely) was passed after several ping-pongs and a sunset clause applied.

The moment I heard these so-called terrorists were released without being even put under House Arrest, I knew this Govt would tell any lie to pass their totalitarian laws.

More recently, the sunset clause of PoT was renewed without even a vote. And Control Orders were ruled incompatible with the HRA by a High Court judge.

Let me know if you need any other sources.

Sure thing...

I know it's hosted on the unreliable Infowars, but it's the only copy of The Independent's article I could find:
http://www.infowars.com/articles/terror/held_4_yea rs_never_even_questioned.htm

It took 3 years of being locked in a dungeon before our Law Lords ruled their imprisonment was incompatible with the HRA. The Govt's response was to push through the whole Prevention of Terrorism Act 2005 in 7 days saying that if it took any longer, these dangerous terrorists would be free to strike again.

As subsequently happened on the ID Cards Act, the elderly House of Lords were forced to stay up into the early hours of the morning and luckily not one of them died. This 3rd draconian 'anti-terror' Act (which can lock any of us up in our own homes without access to family indefinitely) was passed after several ping-pongs and a sunset clause applied.

The moment I heard these so-called terrorists were released without being even put under House Arrest, I knew this Govt would tell any lie to pass their totalitarian laws.

More recently, the sunset clause of PoT was renewed without even a vote. And Control Orders were ruled incompatible with the HRA by a High Court judge.

Let me know if you need any other sources.

I'm guessing it's far worse than you think. Here's my earlier comment on Tuesday's Dictatorship Bill.

If it says what we think it says, I'm writing to the Queen and telling everyone (in my position as a respected therapist/human rights defender) to make plans for emergency emigration.

Or the human cattle ID cards Act, which creates by far the world's most intrusive Big Brother database on citizens by linking up 5+ previously unconnected databases...

The Dictatorship Bill, also called the Abolition of Parliament Bill, Totalitarianism Bill or (by the Govt) the Legislative and Regulatory Reform Bill is nothing less than a naked grab for power. After being amended 3x, the Bill was passed in the form described here.

LRRB enables ministers to rewrite our constitution with only rudimentary scrutiny. Consider the extraordinary mass surveillance / coersion implications of the ID Cards Act. Even the well-organised opposition could not stop this legislation.

What chance then of:
1. Spotting obscure but deeply damaging clauses hidden in the boring legislation?
2. Motivating the Tories, LibDems and enough New Labour drones to subsequently block it?

LRRB is then carte blanche for Blair to do what he will with this country. What can we deduce of his plans?

New Labour already rejected an amendment to stop LRRB re-writing our most important constitutional laws. They then promised to introduce new amendments fulfilling the same thing. Our skepticism was once again justified. This is more than enough evidence that Blair wants dictatorial powers.

LRRB is obviously a precursor to passing laws which Parliament wouldn't otherwise pass.

Considering the deeply scary laws he's got through Parliament, the likelihood is that he wants something so badly, and so unpalatable that he won't even risk presenting it for proper Parliamentary scrutiny.

- He does not need Parliamentary approval to invade Iran
- He already has Hitler's Enabling Act.
- He has already passed RIPA and the ID Cards Act for more Big Brother snooping than anything China or North Korea have.
- He already has locked up people for 3 years without trial or even being questioned - although he has been twice been 'told off' for breaching the Human Rights Act in this way.

I did not believe that he needs LRRB to repeal the HRA - indeed one welcome amendment was to exclude the HRA from being amended. When every other explanation has been ruled out, whatever remains, however unlikely, must be considered. I think something much worse is coming although I dread to think what.

Or the human cattle ID cards Act, which creates by far the world's most intrusive Big Brother database on citizens by linking up 5+ previously unconnected databases...

The Dictatorship Bill, also called the Abolition of Parliament Bill, Totalitarianism Bill or (by the Govt) the Legislative and Regulatory Reform Bill is nothing less than a naked grab for power. After being amended 3x, the Bill was passed in the form described here.

LRRB enables ministers to rewrite our constitution with only rudimentary scrutiny. Consider the extraordinary mass surveillance / coersion implications of the ID Cards Act. Even the well-organised opposition could not stop this legislation.

What chance then of:
1. Spotting obscure but deeply damaging clauses hidden in the boring legislation?
2. Motivating the Tories, LibDems and enough New Labour drones to subsequently block it?

LRRB is then carte blanche for Blair to do what he will with this country. What can we deduce of his plans?

New Labour already rejected an amendment to stop LRRB re-writing our most important constitutional laws. They then promised to introduce new amendments fulfilling the same thing. Our skepticism was once again justified. This is more than enough evidence that Blair wants dictatorial powers.

LRRB is obviously a precursor to passing laws which Parliament wouldn't otherwise pass.

Considering the deeply scary laws he's got through Parliament, the likelihood is that he wants something so badly, and so unpalatable that he won't even risk presenting it for proper Parliamentary scrutiny.

- He does not need Parliamentary approval to invade Iran
- He already has Hitler's Enabling Act.
- He has already passed RIPA and the ID Cards Act for more Big Brother snooping than anything China or North Korea have.
- He already has locked up people for 3 years without trial or even being questioned - although he has been twice been 'told off' for breaching the Human Rights Act in this way.

I did not believe that he needs LRRB to repeal the HRA - indeed one welcome amendment was to exclude the HRA from being amended. When every other explanation has been ruled out, whatever remains, however unlikely, must be considered. I think something much worse is coming although I dread to think what.

memorise and destroy your crib sheet as well... this idiot didn't...

His Government just blocked an amendment that would prevent LRRB being used to abolish elections, imprison everyone etc.

We have already had the Civil Contingencies aka Nazi Enabling Act which gives near unlimited powers to Ministers in the event of an emergency (eg burning down the Reichstag).

We have already had the dreadful Regulation of Investigatory Powers Act forced upon us. RIPA can force ISPs to secretly install mass surveillance equipment or imprison you if you do not release your PGP keys.

And the insidious Identity Cards Bill is hanging like a Sword of Damocles over British privacy and freedom. ID cards are just a front for an unbelievably intrusive database that would make the Stasi blush. The excellent No2ID campaign cannot persuade the House of Lords to hold this up for much longer...

Other attacks on British freedom here.

As Woodrow Wilson pointed out:

Liberty has never come from Government. Liberty has always come from the subjects of it... The history of liberty is a history of limitations of governmental power, not the increase of it.

Whether you consider it your duty to protect Britain's freedom or whether it is merely expedient because you'd like to live here, please write to your MP and join the many campaigners who are dedicating their lives to this fight.

Things are much worse than that. We've started locking up innocent people indefinitely, using anti-terrorist laws on Holocaust survivors and have introduced a Hitleresque dictatorship law.

Next on the agenda is the world's most intrusive mass surveillance system and a law to bypass Parliamentary scrutiny.

We are heading towards a police state faster than 1930s Germany and probably less than 0.1% of the population are doing a thing to stop it.

It's scary to see how quickly the defences against fascism which we've evolved over a millenium have been dismantled. Assuming you're a US citizen, defend your Constitution with your life. And stop rendition and Guantanamo, for God's sake.

I have been talking with the House of Lords (our second House) about opposing the ID Cards Bill and although they understand the Orwellian implications, they're scared to oppose it in case Blair abolishes the Lords altogether.

Most people don't know how scary Britain has become in the last 12 months. In addition to their other Nazi laws, only yesterday it was leaked that Blair is going to tap MPs phones.

You went to McDonald's for lunch...did they record your license plate and/or VIN?

The arguments the Government is using to try to get this passed are embarrassing. That they seem to be succeeding most of the time is shameful.

Take a look at http://www.spy.org.uk/freegary/ (also adressable via http://freegary.org.uk/ ). It is a "blog website intended to support British citizen Gary McKinnon, who is facing "fast track" extradition to the USA (after over two and a half years since his initial arrest !)."

And in the interview he admits he found no conspiracy at all. It clearly sounds like it was just a random thought he had (a lot of people had similar thoughts about 9/11, that's only normal nowadays), so he investigated it to see for sure.

http://www.spy.org.uk/freegary/archives/2005/07/ga eymckinnon_in.html

If No2ID believes important factual information is being suppressed by the media maybe a blog similar to groklaw.net could go some way to redress the balance. I am sure there are lazy journalists - if all the leg-work is done I'm sure it will receive wider coverage.

The media are gradually waking up. There's still evidence of widespread bias at the BBC though.

No2ID's own website

Spyblog ID Card section

http://www.no2id-petition.net/
I beg to differ... Read the radio button text immediately above the submit button.

"like to support the NO2ID campaign" - yeah I see your point. "Like to" is different from "do support" but it is clumsy language.

For example, even if we block the Bill, Blair has promised to introduce the same database via the "royal prerogative" that covers e-passports.

THAT is newsworthy. If backed with credible evidence that would be a dynamite headline.

Guardian article

If Blair makes a threat like that before parliament has voted it shows two things:

That Blair considers it likely that over half the MPs will oppose the bill.
That Blair does not intend to respect the democratic process.

Both of these play straight into the hands of the National ID opposition.

Yeah, if we could get anyone to take notice. Ironic really... ;)

I'm quite impressed at how the anglosaxon world reacts to ID cards. They are present in most countries, and are a far cry from a fascist tool.

First off, this isn't about ID Cards. Sure, I'm not happy at the prospect of being bullied by police for exercising my freedom of speech (mostly against ID Cards), but we're having the world's biggest database built to spy on us.

Finally, it baffles me how people are so nervous about a stupid piece of paper or plastic.

See above.

On the No2ID site I read taurinities like it would cause racial discrimination,

See, the Government said it would be a scheme to combat illegal immigration. That can only happen if the police constantly pester ethnic minorities to prove their identity. So either the government was lying or it would cause racial discrimination.

fingerprint people like criminals (I have been taken fingerprints only once in my life, at the military draft visit)

Then you obviously know very little about what we're facing. We will be fingerprinted upon application for the card as well as every use of public services in the future.

and will be useless against crime. Never mind there are heaps of experience in continental Europe of criminals caught because they provided a not-good-enough fake ID (one I remember was mafia boss Madonia).

According to Time, he was caught by a phone tap.

The claim that identity theft would not be affected is simply ludicrous: the very term "identity theft" is exclusive to the anglosaxon world, as identity theft is impossible with an ID-card system; in continental Europe, we don't even talk of it.

Identity theft is a buzzword meaning transactions using someone else's financial identity - our Government has been talking about the £1.3 billion cost even though ID Cards can only prevent a mere £35 million of it.

And last but not least, how can be that people are worried about ID cards when living in countries where the government has been given insane powers to detain people without trial and rights, like in Guantanamo?

You can't be worried about 2 things at the same time? Most British people don't know about this Database, they don't know they can be locked up without trial and they don't know that the government can rewrite our entire set of laws at whim. The media seems reluctant to report these things.

I wrote to my MP twice about control orders. You have to realise that our democracy is non-existent and unless the media takes an interest, Blair can do whatever he wants. Even when the media took an interest for the last 9 years, Blair had nearly 2/3rds of the votes.

But I am also working with No2ID in a desperate fight to avoid losing my country to some autocrats. It's hard to research which countries still have functioning democracies so thanks for the NH lead.

BTW, the UK government also passed a law which grants unlimited powers for any minister (including Whips!) who verbally declares a state of emergency/tyranny.

Here in the UK, the Police are not allowed to enter your property with out your permission or a warrant.

Might be worth pointing out that the House of Commons has already voted to reverse this in the Prevention of Terrorism Bill and the House of Lords will probably allow it.

http://www.spy.org.uk/spyblog/archives/2005/02/mor e_evil_impli.html

What you need is... a tin foil card holder!

There are some good questions on Spy Blog:

The questions about whether or not Rackspace's UK subsidiary have acted illegally under United Kingdom law, by intercepting "electronic communications" (including emails), disrupting an electronic communications system, export of personal data outside of the European Union to the USA without permission, breach of copyright etc. still need to be answered.

Without the protection of a properly authorised UK law enforcement warrant, which was obviously not obtained in this case, Rackspace UK could be sued for breach of confidentiality by the >Indymedia systems administrators with whom they have a legal contract.

The contract was with Rackspace UK and Rackspace are a UK limited company... you can look this up with Companies House (UK office hours, they don't leave their mainframe connected to the net when they are not in the office!)... so there must be potential for breach of contract action(s) here...

Check term 10 of Rackspace UK's Master Service Agreement:

"10 Law and Disputes
10.1 This Agreement shall be governed by English law.

I rang Rackspace in the UK today, their Linux managed servers sales section, I asked them if they would host a box for me in the UK and if it could be exempt from UK laws... I didn't get very far... I asked to speak to her boss but she said they were both out... she said only the US company could speak about this matter...

For more background on this see Jebba's blog and also please sign the Indymedia Solidarity Statment!

PS Isn't it time for a Indymedia topic with a nice (((i))) logo... :-)

Britain is the World's Surveillance Leader
Yeah. Yeah, that sounds about right.

I guess the idea about CCTV cameras is that in principle the benefits (in terms of greater public safety) in theory outweigh the disadvantages (in terms of infringed privacy).

But for this to be a valid argument (and I'm really not sure I'm convinced by it just yet), there are a number of things which have to happen.

Firstly, the things have to be very strictly controlled and regulated, preferably by some suitably impartial but trustworthy non-governmental organisation. I don't want to see private companies running the things, either. And any abuse of the system must be punishable by serious sanctions - not just a £100 fine and a slap on the wrist, but something like a 2-10 year prison sentence for the individual, and summary revocation of the operating organisation's licence.

And secondly, they have to be shown to actually fulfil the purpose they're set up for. Now a number of people have described incidents where they've totally failed to work. So at present, I'm tending towards the view of them not being a Good Thing - but if these issues can be resolved properly then I'd be (very cautiously) ok about them.

Actually, there was a case a year or two ago where a guy got severely depressed (due to a number of things that had recently happened in his life) and was standing on the edge of a bridge, contemplating jumping off. Somehow, a nearby CCTV camera spotted him, and the police were dispatched to talk him down. So far, all well and good - tragic suicide averted, friends and relatives spared immense grief and feelings of guilt, etc. And then the footage was plastered all over the national news, but without the customary pixelisation and identity-concealment. So suddenly tens of millions of people knew all about a particularly unfortunate and private episode in his life. Which can't have helped matters much, certainly.

Now given our current Home Secretary's attitude towards privacy, I'm not convinced that proper regulation and oversight is going to be high on the list of priorities. David Blunkett (who is currently pushing really hard for the introduction of a compulsory biometric national id card and accompanying national population database) is pretty much the most authoritarian, control-freak Home Secretary we've had since Michael Howard (who held the post under during the last Tory administration, and is now Leader of the Opposition).

Morgui!!

From the CCTV Surveilance regulation campaign: The United Kingdom leads the world in the deployment of Closed Circuit Tele Vision camera technology. However, we seem to have no coherent, legally enforceable rules or regulations which ensure that Public CCTV schemes are run properly. This website aims to open up a debate about the extent to which powerful technologies such as linked CCTV camera systems, neural network facial recognition , car number plate recognition, multimedia image databases etc. are being applied in the UK.

Why, in the UK, is television reception controlled by licences, backed up by criminal penalties, but no licencing is required to install linked CCTV camera systems?

Are CCTV surveillance systems vital to keep order on our streets, or are there substantial civil liberties problems to be addressed ? Has the cost effectiveness of Public CCTV surveillance systems been oversold ? Is crime reduced or just displaced next door ?

But, that has already been solved. UK motorists have already been tracked for years across large parts of the road network. Why worry about potential invasion of privacy when it has already been invaded by a private company? (they have operations in USA too).

"Automatic number plate recognition (ANPR) arrived in the UK in 1997, when the City of London police installed cameras that scan the plates of every vehicle entering and leaving the Square Mile - a concept dubbed the ring of steel. "The cameras are very overt. It's all very open," says a police spokesperson. "We're not interested in monitoring people's movements, we just want to provide them with a safe environment."

"Automatic number plate recognition (ANPR) arrived in the UK in 1997, when the City of London police installed cameras that scan the plates of every vehicle entering and leaving the Square Mile - a concept dubbed the ring of steel. "The cameras are very overt. It's all very open," says a police spokesperson. "We're not interested in monitoring people's movements, we just want to provide them with a safe environment."

"Automatic number plate recognition (ANPR) arrived in the UK in 1997, when the City of London police installed cameras that scan the plates of every vehicle entering and leaving the Square Mile - a concept dubbed the ring of steel. "The cameras are very overt. It's all very open," says a police spokesperson. "We're not interested in monitoring people's movements, we just want to provide them with a safe environment."

"Automatic number plate recognition (ANPR) arrived in the UK in 1997, when the City of London police installed cameras that scan the plates of every vehicle entering and leaving the Square Mile - a concept dubbed the ring of steel. "The cameras are very overt. It's all very open," says a police spokesperson. "We're not interested in monitoring people's movements, we just want to provide them with a safe environment."

Actually 'The City' or the Square Mile is covered by number plate recognition systems. It logs cars going in and out of the financial district, it checks if the car is reported stolen, and properly taxed and insured. It logs cars that 'go missing', if a car was logged into the system and wasn't seen leaving the area it alerts the police to the possibility of a car bomb. You can read more about it on the Home Office site.

The rest of London and many other parts of the country do have extensive CCTV coverage, however it's just bog standard cameras and monitors.

The only face recognition system in use in London (and possibly the whole country) is the Mandrake system in Newham, which had a particularly bad crime problem. I know it's also being tested in Australia, but it's not used widely in the UK (yet).

When they outlaw ECM only criminals will have ECM. Oh wait... the FCC... "Rilly occifer, I didn't know my alternator was arcing so much"

Anti-camera privacy group gives up and says thanks for all the fish

If only. They've got a face recognition system called Mandrake already in use in the London Borough of Newham, and a traffic monitoring system (TrafficMaster) using number-plate recognition, currently only to gauge average speeds for traffic flow, but since it works by recognising the vehicles, it certainly counts. There's also a very clever system in development by the Uni's of Leeds and Reading which uses a neural net to identify pedestrians behaving 'suspiciously'.

Big Brother's already hard at work.

TomV

Check out this site. Lots of stuff on CCTV, privacy.