Slashdot Mirror
The UK's Total Surveillance
Budenny writes "The Register has a story in its ongoing coverage of the UK ID Card story. This one suggests, with links to a weekend news story, that the Prime Minister in waiting has bought the idea that all electronic transactions in the UK should be linked to a central government/police database. Every cash withdrawal, every credit card purchase, ever loyalty card use ... And that data should flow back from the police database to (eg) a loyalty card use. So, for example, not only would the government know what books you were buying, but the bookstore would also know if you had an outstanding speeding ticket!"
And we ALL have many things to hide.
Abuse of the info will happen, so let it never be allowed, anywhere!
"I have a right to buy those, but please officer don't tell my boss or my wife or my kids!"
Help end the use of Sigs. Tomorrow
"Nothing for you to see here." *gasp* They got to /.!!!
In all seriousness, this scares the bejesus out of me... and I don't even live in the UK. This would make Big Brother a whole lot bigger... do people really need the government "watching out for them" every step of their lives? And what's with the reverse-feedback? I could see some useful situations (i.e. a bar could see that a patron had a DUI and call him a cab), but overall it seems rather Orwellian.
A computer once beat me at chess, but it was no match for me at kick boxing.
Thanks to the War on Drugs, it's easier to buy meth than it is to buy cold medicine!
And who's guilty of this all?
Terrorists!
And I do mean it. They're bad, bad folks who use scare tactics and incite the fear of getting blown up to control the population into obeying their demands.
Yeah, that's right. Your beloved government fills all the requirements for the word "terrorists". Just like the other side of the pond.
The creatures outside looked from Alt-Right to Antifa; but already it was impossible to say which was which.
Why not post your full contact details here, you self righteous twats.
(Just thught I'd pre-empt them).
I guess bed time reading for them was: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Orwell
If this database could be linked to myspace!!
I'll never have to write my own boring blogs ever again, this could do it for me!
11am bought donuts at krispy kreme
11:15 incurred speeding fine on South eastern freeway
11:30 purchased petrol
I wonder what people would do if they took a vacation in the UK or if they were there on a business trip. If this system became integrated into daily life and such, I bet that visitors would have to get some type of a temporary card so that they could be tracked, too.
Question: With all these people's lives transparant to business and government, do you think that business/government will become MORE or LESS transparant to people in exchange?
My take is that this is a game of government and business ganging up on the rest of society in the name of security. Government is the daddy, business is the favorite trusted son, and everything else is their hunting ground. The conservative dream.
Ryan Fenton
Back to the cash only transactions.
This message was done on 100% recycled electrons.
If you pay cash for something you'll be required to swipe your ID card through a reader anyways because "it's standard procedure to get a card swipe of some kind with every transaction"
I'm a fiscal conservative, it's a pity we don't have a political party anymore
"The bookstore would know you had an outstanding parking ticket" - how and why? The current bank card we use in a bookshop links to all our bank details but a bookshop cannot access them - no system would let retail outlets interrogate a database for that information or any other info that didn't directly refer to them - that would be a serious design flaw and would never be accepted.
So an article in the Observer makes claims from 'sources', and all of a sudden everyone should get their tin foil hats out. We've all seen what a spectacular failure most of the recent UK Gov IT projects have been, if I believed they were even capable of doing this I might be slightly concerned. When they officially announce this is what they're rolling out, I'll make a fuss.
About five years ago I was generally in favour of limited invasion of privacy like ID cards, CCTV etc. The level of craziness coming from Labour in the area has pushed me into the privacy nut camp. Their current behaviour just seems like the Labour equivalent of Thatcher's last years.
Then two things occured to me;
1) I don't live in the UK
2) Natural incompetency will prevent this from ever seeing the light of day. They'll be a lot of noise about it, then a year or so before it's supposed to go live, there will be story after story about how this jack holes never managed to figure out what a database was, let alone link them to others.
Mod me down with all of your hatred and your journey towards the dark side will be complete!
Kinda makes me feel like I'm on the Truman show - all famous and special and such.
Oh wait - its a bad thing, not having a life of my own...
"We are all geniuses when we dream"
- E.M. Cioran
Oh the irony...promoting George Orwell using a system that behaves exactly like the Ministry of Truth.
Unless the government could make money on selling the bookstore the info that I drive a Porche, speed and that there is a new book on Porche history or one on how to beat the traffic courts.
Help end the use of Sigs. Tomorrow
"Live as if you'll die tomorrow." Ridiculous. You could die later today.
Anyone remember the scare about the NSA commissioning programs that could pull together information on individuals from all over t'interweb and produce coherent, intelligent reports on behaviour patterns etc? The idea being that all of this data is available, but it's so massive and disparate that it would be almost futile to draw anything useful from it.
Seems kind of obsolete now, doesn't it.
Meta will eat itself
that started in 1215 with magna carta. Apparently your present prime minister, whom you have elected to power 2 times, is very enthusiastic about following in the footsteps of his sidekicks in u.s. government to kill democracy.
Read radical news here
Um, did the Norsefire party get elected whilst I wasn't paying attention?
especially for my 2600.
how long before paper money are outlawed?
The bookstore cited in the summary would not want to know about your speeding tichets. They would undoubtedly implement a filter to narrow down the information they display. Plus, I didn't RTFA, but it seems unlikely to me that the system would actually be structured in such a way that all information could be pulled with the same weight. I'd think that personal information would require a higher access level. However, in the US, traffic citations are public record, and a bookstore could pull them in if they wanted to.
I myself am living through the hell of a family member's minor criminal infraction being repeatedly mishandled and miscoded by the 2 courts and 3 police departments that have some jurisdiction. Now on a daily basis there are cops at my house with one kind of arrest warrant or another for a charge that was dropped months ago.
So yeah let's give the cops more power and more data to peer into and let's give them more of an excuse to wave a piece of paper in my face and tell me "I don't care what you say, this piece of paper says I'm right and you're going to jail.." Yeah let's do that.
1) I always pay cash (credit card purely for cash out).
2) If asked to produce ID for a purchase (it does happen from time to time, no idea why), I take my business elsewhere.
3) I don't live in the UK.
When the system is in place, Winston Smith with use his Speakwrite to go back to August 8, 2006, and revise Slashdot to delete all the comments here.
Help end the use of Sigs. Tomorrow
This system is far too complicated to ever work.
A much easier system would be to just let the government decide what you can eat, where you can go (and when), and what you can read (if anything). In fact, let the government set your schedule, issue you a uniform with a number on it, and install a chip in your head so you can be tracked 24/7.
Only then will we be safe from terrorists.
Serving your airship needs since 1995.
When I first heard about the 9/11 attacks, I thought "Was this a CIA plan to get a law passed to elimnate all are civil right?" Of couse not, but then they passed the Patriot act. Only terrorists and criminals would have anything to hide, only a terrorist would say, "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
Fight Spammers!
I was thinking more of V for Vendetta.
Watch Ordering pizza (turn on your speakers!)
Although this film was made in response the the U.S. Information Awareness Office program, it is equally relevant here.
Trusted Computing FAQ | Free Dawit Isaak!
One of the underlying goals of the whole ID card fiasco isn't the card but the database it is intending to use that is designed to integrate all the other government owned databases in a way that allows a single view of a person. As things stand, if you want to search the driving licence data, address, voting info, criminal records etc you haven't to search different databases.
Nowhere have I seen anything that suggested this data will be available to 3rd parties such as shops but for sure, they want the data from shops.
Anyway, the UK government have a terrible record for producing big systems either to time, budget or function so we'll have nothing to worry about for ten years by which time it will have bankrupted us and will use kit no longer available and crash out with errors and timeouts all over the place. It will probably be a doddle to hack too so at least the crims will get something useful out of it.
I want a list of atrocities done in your name - Recoil
...wants to be free.
Seriously, though, why not have all this information be freely available. Perhaps we _should_ live in a more transparent society. Would it really hurt?
Just a thought. I'll go hide in my bunker now.
As a Brit who lived in the USA from 1991 to 2000, I can report unfortunately, that unlike the USA, whose wonderful constitution and congress means that controversial measures are often debated, here, if the PM or PM2B decides to implement a law, he may and sometimes will bring it into being. The collapse of morals, lack of principled leadership, common sense and genuine concern for the populace shown by Blair's government is terrifying. I have had several parking tickets (citations) in London whereby my car was photographed BEFORE the alleged offence, and without my permission. I was stunned to receive pictures of my car and toughly written letters demanding payment of £100 for very very minor and totally accidental parking offences. Once such CCTV systems and linked to the same database as this retail database, we will in fact be living in a world far worse than Owell envisioned because unlike people, technology is cold and unable to make compassionate or common sense based judgements. It's not the Orwellian nightmare we should be afraid of, it's the concept of Skynet and such a system being missued by a corrupt and morally bankrupt government. Or G-d forbid, any terrorists who take over parliament and use it to 'take out' people of a specific ethnic group. It's happened before! People of Britain, open your eyes!
O'WONDERWe're working on it.
Personally i feel like im being terrorised by are own government.
I have nothing to hide apart from my privacy
This type of $hit goes againts any type Ethics & Standards of Practice.
So what happens when your government is out of control ?
Do we as citizens have a moral responsibility to stop this/them ?
is to underestimate the opponent. This mistake can be fatal.
You can't handle the truth.
It is funny and chilling at the same time.
Help end the use of Sigs. Tomorrow
The public do not elect the Prime Minister. The public elect their regional MP (Member of Parliament) who takes a seat in the House of Commons representing a particular party. The Prime Minister is (by tradition, not constitution) the leader of the party with the most MP's in parliament. So, don't blame us.
Python coder | PyQt Applications | Writer
We dont need government: switch to a non-profit.
Time to start paying for everything in coins.
I'm beginning to think I'm the only person in an English speaking country without a checking account, credit card, or cell phone.
Haiku for you!
Amazon and Google and MySpace are too complicated to work...wait they work very well.
Help end the use of Sigs. Tomorrow
The oft used trick in the UK for getting the population to swallow whatever crap the government wants to hurl their way, i.e.
1) Announce insanely over the top version of whatever it is you want to do
2) Sit back while the population freaks out for a while and make a token defence of it
3) Back off to the point you originally intended and watch the population sigh in relief your "capitulation" in the face of their protests.
Generally, if there's one thing to realise about New Labour it's that things don't leak from a source close to anyone in the government unless there's an agenda behind it.
Hmmmmmm..... Deep fried and look like Squirrel.
Well that's just grand. You know they'll be adding another service fee on for that.
... Priceless!
--- ATM SCREEN ---
Notice: Please push OK to
accept the following fees.
Bank Convenience Fee: $2.00
Police Security Fee: $1.00
Knowing that your entire financial history is going on your permanent record
Aside from the speculation about the technical feasability of the plan (which would be, of course, workable were it not that the Gov. is running it), I wonder if this is just a way for GB ("PM in waiting? Erm, we have to elect him first, remember?) to get extra votes. First, you have the current PM make a huge, unworkable plan for a system that wont solve problems, will go hugely overbudget, and is almost universally derided. Second, just before the general election, you announce that you wont support it - gaining votes from the left (We love freedom!) the right (We wont spend money!) the greens (plastic cards dont biodegrade!) and the largest volume of voters, Sun readers (We do what Murdock tells us!). Three, sail into office. Then ressurect the plan a few months later. Easy.
...as long as I get a free V for Vendetta mask sent to me in the post I'll be happy with the controls till we get to blow up the Houses of Parliament.
When I read this I laughed out loud. This is complete crap. Everybody knows the UK government are not able to do something this complicated. Look at the new NHS computer system hundreds of millions of pounds and it still doesnt fecking work.
More complete and utter scaremongering horseshit from the Ministry of Terrorist Propaganda, now that IS Orwellian.
"It's good to alive, in 1985!"
Task Mangler
One of the more fascinating aspects of my emigration to England has been my total political reorientation. Rather, my beliefs and views haven't changed all that much, but the labels used to describe those beliefs - well, my head is still spinning.
In America, I'm photographer, a writer, I work in publishing, from NYC ... pretty much the popular cliché of a member of the Democratic party: TAX-RAISING, LATTE-DRINKING, SUSHI-EATING, VOLVO-DRIVING, HOLLYWOOD-LOVING (without the tax-raising so much - and I drove a Saturn - but goodness I love the sushi and S'bucks). I subscribe to the pillars of liberal belief as per the wiki's description:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberal
And so it beggars belief when I read of Blair's government - and now Brown's - introducing such supremely illiberal measures such as identity cards to say nothing of the anti-democratic tinkering with the judiciary and the House of Lords.
This sort of nonsense plus the recently announced and very damaging recent immigration rule changes (http://www.vbsi.org.uk/) leaves me with the option of joining the Liberal Democrats or the Conservatives - and I'm leaning Conservative at the moment. I really do wish the Labour party would crumble into dust like a vampire in the sunshine and leave a "true" liberal party to defend that side of the political divide.
Any thoughts?
Brown has also said (i think in TFA) that he will sell our info to offset the costs of the scheme. Well, the details of those left in the UK. Im off to Germany when this happens.
Catcher in the Rye!!!!
:)
The'll be after you
I know I've heard about a utopia like you are describing...
---
"I can't complain, but sometimes still do..." Joe Walsh
...with our fancy smancy "Electoral College": "It's not my fault. I didn't know my elector was actually going to vote for who he pledged to vote for." Okay okay, so most of the time it doesn't really matter between popular and electoral votes... well except for in 2000.
Goes to show us that TR (Teddy Roosevelt) was right, when he said
"We have more to fear from fear itself".
Osamma wanted to destroy America, and he only knocked down two buildings, and killed three thousand people.
We have taken the ball from there, and began to destroy America.
This goes to follow something my father said once, I think its a famous quote... We (America) will not be destroyed from without, but from within.
- High Tech workers, please say NO to Union Carpenters, their Union sees fit to control our compensation.
Amerikkka was the police state and Europe was the land of free of stuff. . .
I'm so confused!
Signed,
A "Progressive"
Information does want to be free, but only if the information is free in both directions. If Tony Blair can see what I had for lunch, I should be able to see what he had for lunch.
Support Right To Repair Legislation.
Watch out! I mean...carry on about your business.
The cameras are your friends, as they are there to protect you, didn't you know?
If you have a complaint in regards to your privacy, I suggest you see the security kiosks (located every half block) and file it there. Remember to speak directly into the camera eye. Also, you must remember to include your ID#, license number, phone number and bank account number in order to ensure an accurate and timely response. Protecting your security is our business.
Have a pleasant day.
He who knows best knows how little he knows. - Thomas Jefferson
I'm a UK citizen living in a non-English speaking foreign country, and at some point in the next few years my POP (plain old paper) non-biometric passport will need to be renewed. By the sound of things it might be cheaper and easier for me to take up the nationality of my country of residence (I have all the right qualifications for it) than go through the hassle of (re-)establishing my identity to the Thought Police^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H relevant UK authorities. I'd still end up with a biometric passport as well as the local ID card, but I wouldn't have to carry either of them, and I'd at least have nominal influence over government policy via the electoral process.
Hey, I pirate stuff. Don't tell anyone. And I speed. And I tear the mattress tag off. But I'm not too worried about privacy. I'm one of the few that doesn't mind the government keeping track of all purchases. Often this is a great means for identifying and fighting large-scale crime and terrorism.
However, I can't see how anyone would justify sending this information back to retailers.
http://blindscribblings.com - Tasty pop-culture in conceptual fashion.
Yeah, lable me a tin foil hat person, but I'm going to hold out as long as I can - no EZPass, no customer loyalty cards, a new non-RFID passport, etc., etc. I may go down, but not without some degree of a fight.
I have had no problem getting customer loyalty cards without handing out any personal info. I get the card and form at the checkout, say I'll fill it in later, and never do. No one has complained yet...
Money - use it in cash transactions. If you remove their ability to collect data...
The cesspool just got a check and balance.
V for Vendetta--though a good book and great movie--was a TOTAL ripoff of 1984.
Statistically, that's not true. Smokers cost the NHS less over the course of their lifetimes on average, because they tend not to live as long.
This may be counter-intuitive, but it does illustrate very nicely how dangerous a little information can be. Not that this is at all relevant to the current discussion, of course. ;-)
If you disagree, post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like.
yay !! its the security singularity :) we all owned!!
bring bak the ponies!!
bring bak the ponies!!
seeing as unprecedented evile never sleeps, it's a full time chore.
from previous post: many demand corepirate nazi execrable stop abusing US
we the peepoles?
how is it allowed? just like corn passing through a bird's butt eye gas.
all they (the felonious nazi execrable) want is... everything. at what cost to US?
lookout bullow.
for many of US, the only way out is up.
don't forget, for each of the creators' innocents harmed (in any way) there is a debt that must/will be repaid by you/US as the perpetrators/minions of unprecedented evile will not be available after the big flash occurs.
'vote' with (what's left in) yOUR wallet. help bring an end to unprecedented evile's manifestation through yOUR owned felonious corepirate nazi life0cidal glowbull warmongering execrable.
some of US should consider ourselves very fortunate to be among those scheduled to survive after the big flash/implementation of the creators' wwwildly popular planet/population rescue initiative/mandate.
it's right in the manual, 'world without end', etc....
as we all ?know?, change is inevitable, & denying/ignoring gravity, logic, morality, etc..., is only possible, on a temporary basis.
concern about the course of events that will occur should the corepirate nazi life0cidal execrable fail to be intervened upon is in order.
'do not be dismayed' (also from the manual). however, it's ok/recommended, to not attempt to live under/accept, fauxking nazi felon greed/fear/ego based pr ?firm? scriptdead mindphuking hypenosys.
consult with/trust in yOUR creators. providing more than enough of everything for everyone (without any distracting/spiritdead personal gain motives), whilst badtolling unprecedented evile, using an unlimited supply of newclear power, since/until forever. see you there?
I was about to be concerned when I noticed the article was in the Register. Whewww... that was a close call. Now if this showed in the Times or Newsweek, I might wet myself a little.
First problem with a project this large is the sheer scope of what you're trying to do. You need one hell of an IT infrastructure to pull something like this off. We are talking about a major telecomm upgrade that will cost billions. France over the past couple of years has upgrade their's and they spent around 12 billion I believe. That is just one discipline. You still have hardware, application, and security. Oh... I forgot delivery and support. This would be a PMOB (Project Mobilization) from hell.
I will start by saying I don't know as much about the UK process of governing and checks and balances. I would hope my limey friends would have something in place to check or limit the ability of something like this happening. If not, you had better remember the 5th of November and all don your Guy Fox masks and stage a rebellion. Seriously, if this is even remotely in the works the citizens of the UK need to unify and do something, preferribly something non-violent to start with. Well, that's my $0.02.
I eat Karma for breakfast, lunch, and dinner. That's why I don't have any.
Should this actually be implemented, what would stop the government from later declaring that you could not make a purchase if you had outstanding parking tickets, speeding tickets, tax bills, murder warrants, etc, etc.
In other words, unless you comply with whatever requirements are put in place, you can't buy food.
Now that's a pretty big club to hold over people, and probably not all that far-fetched, even if it does seem tin-foil hat-like today.
If it had been in the "News of the World" or "Sunday Mail" I might have agreed with you. However the Observer is one of the two Sunday newspapers that are actually newspapers (the Independent being the other, the Sunday Times is an upmarket Murdoch tabloid).
So, even though there have been some fairly well reported failures in UK government IT projects I am not dismissing this one.
My take is that this is a game of government and business ganging up on the rest of society in the name of security.
That's the basic definition of fascism.
In the last 9 years I have gone from supporting the Labour party (because the previous incumbents were wallowing in corruption) to wanting to see them wiped out at the next election, provided only that the Conservatives have actually walked the walk and got rid of their worst members and worst policies.
Please, when Bush retires and Tony goes to make sure his boots are properly licked to a shine every morning, could the US extradite most of the Labour Cabinet (under the one sided extradition treaty they agreed to) without prima facie evidence, and lock them up in Texas somewhere?
Pining for the fjords
A few lawsuits for false arrest might help. But I doubt it.
That is...until someone accidently loses a laptop with the entire database on it
They never have been liberal. I'm rather confused that you'd think they were... The conservative party is conservative, also not remotely liberal. The Liberal Democrats are... liberal... I have to be honest I don't understand your difficulty.
Deleted
>V for Vendetta--though a good book and great movie--was a TOTAL ripoff of 1984.
Yeah, and 1984 was a TOTAL rip-off of "We" by Yevgeny Zamyatin and, of course, "Brave New World" by Aldous Huxley.
Influence does not mean rip-off.
Life is like a web application. Sometime you need cookies just to get by.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/5251526. stm
Visit Snowflake Showers
Can I go to the toilet please?
Karma: Bad. (As in Good?)
Remember, Remember, the 5th of November,
of gunpowder treason and plot.
For I see no reason that gunpowder, treason,
should ever be forgot.
Parent's experience is becoming more common. "Following a succesful trial in Westminster earlier this year, around 20 cameras will monitor and automatically fine vehicle owners who park in restricted areas or obstruct other road users. Some of central London's busiest streets will be covered, and the hope is that congestion will be eased and that video footage will both provide hard evidence against illegal parkers and reduce the volume of challenged tickets." pocket-lint (07 August 2006)
Supporters of ID cards please note: they're fining motorists who park on the pavement rather than e.g. people who walk on the grass because they can automatically identify the former, not the latter. Do you really think it will stop there when we're all RFID-chipped?.
Reduce, reuse, cycle
Hang on to your hats, folks. What it means to be human is going to change radically in the next 50 years - and more along the lines of Aldous Huxley's Brave New World than Orwell's 1984. There could be huge benefits to TIA (see below).
If the UK gouvernment implemented a law where the cops get to kick whomever they please in the tukus for no particular reason, the populace could vote them out.
My point is, who is suffering with this extreme surveilance? Is there an example of some dude with his head in a dark cage with rabid squirrels biting his face? - Made possible by TIA?
Yes, the government is controlling the population through fear. But they have not crossed the line into physically harming the population - far from it - Citizens in the UK and USA live fat and happy lives. That is a big part of the reason the government is able to get away with this stuff. There is no pressing reason for people to resist it.
Benefits of TIA:
- Much less crime
- No locks or keys to slow you down. Think Single Sign On but for real life.
- Accurate accounting/paper trail for everything. This is neccessary for a smooth running civil society. Go to a 3rd world country sometime for an example of the converse.
The typical slashdotter is very "information aware" in their own life. Why shouldn't governments aspire to be the same?
You can always move to Uganda if you dont like it.
Government IT projects always run over budget, past their deadline and the final product only has half of the intended features - why would a project that looks bigger than anything done before succeed when the government has failed so many times before.
Yes, good point about party title being a prime indicator of a party's philosophical leanings. I suppose I'm just bemoaning the lack of an electable centre-left party in British politics - at the national level.
In 2001, there was an estimated amount of 1 camera for every 50 people in England.
Read about the Surveillance Camera Players' tour here.
Beware: In C++, your friends can see your privates!
The US needs a Privacy Amendment. That "clarifies" for our emerging police state at least the same privacy rights the government is required to protect as specified in the 4th Amendment. Which itself was a clarification of the omission of any government right to privacy invasion without probable cause and warrants, which protect our privacy.
--
make install -not war
> Nowhere have I seen anything that suggested this data will be available to 3rd parties such as shops but for sure, they want the data from shops.
And of course what has been neglected in all the discussion here is that the corporates already have copious amounts of data about you. Agreed that ASDA (Walmart UK) only have information about what you spent in their shops, but the banks hold information on all your spending.
Given the amount of information you have to provide to stop money laundering and identity theft they probably also know your passport and social security details as well.
So, yes the proposal is a Stalinist's wet dream but it is been done in minature already.
The major difference is, in V, as opposed to 1984, there is hope to change things.
Your ID card protects your identity - keep it close!
Smile! Our cameras are here to protect your privacy!
The new limits on automotive traffic will ensure you get to your destination quicker!
Friendly reminder from the Revenue Service - save all financial records - We Do!
Please don't litter - remember: everything you throw away has your DNA on it, so we'll know!
'Give me six lines penned by the hand of an innocent man, and I will find in them somethign to have him hanged.'
We all do, say, buy, or otherwise involve ourselves in things that might not put us on everyone's best person of the year list. If you have access to enough information about somebody, simply through selective presentation one can create a danmning image of an otherwise innocent and decent indivual.
"And I see you bought drain cleaner, fertilizer, and firecrackers sir, clearly you are trying to build a bomb"
This is definately a serious potential for massive abuse.
This has precisely zero chance of happening. Ignoring that it's undoutably a troll by the Government to check out reaction anyway (an oft-used tactic so they can 'listen to public opinion' and retreat to the position they wanted to implement in the first place) Government has a long, long history of failing to get complex, or even simple, IT projects to work.
By way of a small but succient example take the National Firearms Register. First proposed after the Dunblane Massacre, this relatively simple proposal for a single database of gun owners across the whole of the UK - instead of each local police force holding holding thei own records - still hasn't been implemented nearly 10 years after it was agreed. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4767068.stm
Remember gun ownership in the UK is rare - less than 50,000 people from a population of 55 million - and this is an widely supported measure that even the shooting organisations agree with.
Similar failed or massively cut-back initiatives abound for the national health service, vehicle licencing authority, child support agency, inland revenue/customs and excise, police authorities and much else.
The CIA redefined the term "Terrorism" so that the government could not be accused of engaging in such behavior.
When the original design work was being done at the office of the deputy prime minister, old 2 jags himself, the security design team was comprised of a number of Security Service officers, Army Signals and former RAF Provost Branch Officers turned crypto/security specialists. A number hold CLAS certification from GCHQ CESG group. The contract was a licence to print money and will be likely to continue for some time to come, and boy are they happy about it....
Rev 13:17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.
Donald 'Duck' Dunn: We had a band powerful enough to turn goat piss into gasoline.
I'm sorry, but WTF?
Don't you love it when people have no idea what they're asking for. At least it lets you point and laugh.
Deleted
Remember remember the fifth of November
Gunpowder, treason and plot.
I see no reason why gunpowder, treason
Should ever be forgot...
Soon we will all have to emulate a lot of terrorist behaviour in order to have any privacy at all. The question is " Which came first, the terrorist or the privacy ? " Will attempting to be private be a terrorist act ?
As soon as they can get the tech working, passport applicants/renewers will be entered on the National Identity Register (NIR). There is no opt out.
This NIR is initially planned to be linked to your tax records, police records, passport records and even the new Automated Number Plate Recogntion system which tracks all your car journeys.
This, of course, is just the beginning, but is already the world's most intrusive database on citizens, going further than even China. If Brown gets his way, it looks like your credit card transactions, phone calls & emails will soon be able to automatically flag you as a possible troublemaker.
Britain's democracy has failed to stop this. It will likewise not stop future governments of any variety abusing you via your data.
NO2ID has known about this all along and we have been telling anyone who would listen. The campaign is extremely well run and full of great people, but we need YOUR help to stop this Orwellian nightmare.
What a whole load of fuss over pretty much nothing. Apart from "speculation" that ID cards are evil and will contain your soul the actual facts are that ID cards will only contain the same amount of information found in driver's license, passport, etc - it is just consolidated in one place. Every single time there is an ID cards discussion on /. everybody starts saying "the UK is a police state", "the UK is fascist", "Britain is undemocratic". Nobody seems to realise that ID cards aren't the state trying to reach into every aspect of your life, they are just trying to consolidate your personal information into one place, rather than having it scattered all over the place, making ID theft all the easier.
And to whoever it was who said about discussing policy in the UK rarely happens and policy discussion goes on all the time in the US: a seperation of powers only works if they are pulling in different directions.
Wow. You need to do some research beyond what the propaganda tells you. The cops DO get to kick whomever they please for no particular reason, (other than anonymous phone calls and fear propagation), and the people can't vote the government out because the system is made of pretend contenders who all have the same agenda. It's like asking the cows at the slaughter house if they want door number one or two. And like most of the population, they are also fat, dull-witted and fairly content to be cattle.
Benefits of TIA:
- Much less crime
- No locks or keys to slow you down. Think Single Sign On but for real life.
- Accurate accounting/paper trail for everything. This is neccessary for a smooth running civil society. Go to a 3rd world country sometime for an example of the converse.
That's all propaganda. --Crime and its perception are both mostly creations of the state itself. No locks or keys to slow me down? Actually, I live in a town where people don't lock their doors. (I did move, as you suggest, because I didn't like what I saw the government doing.)
And accurate accounting? Again, this is programmed thinking. Why do we need flawless accounting? Who does this serve? You or the corporations/government who want you to be controlled through money and fear? Again, in my town, a full third of the goods I deal with, (food and various technologies), are traded without cash and everybody is happy. How can this possibly be improved by a greedy government which wants me to be afraid knowing everything about me?
Knowledge protects, ignorance endangers.
-FL
Transponders?
:
:
: ...but the link finally died in July 2004 and the new location does not have a photo of a RFID bridge underpass collector. But does discuss thhe toll booth RFID uses...
Spy transmission chips embedded in tires that can be read REMOTELY while driving.
A secret initiative exists to track all funnel-points on interstates and US borders for car tire ID transponders (RFid chips embedded in the tire).
I hope this guys RFID dumper helps people learn about their car more (if supported scanner is in the AIAG frequency standard range)
Your tires have a passive coil with 64 to 128 bit serial number emitter in them! (AIAG B-11 ADC v3.0) . A particular frequency energizes it enough so that a receiver can read its little ROM. A ROM which in essence is your GUID for your TIRE. Multiple tires do not confuse the readers. Its almost identical to all "FastPass" "SpeedPass" technologies you see on gasoline keychain dongles and commuter windshield sticker-chips. The US gov has secretly started using these chips to track people.
Its kind of like FBI "Taggants" in fertilizer and "Taggants" in Gasoline and Bullets, and Blackpowder. But these car tire transponder Ids are meant to actively track and trace movement of your car.
Taggant research papers
http://www.wws.princeton.edu/cgi-bin/byteserv.prl/ ~ota/disk3/1980/8017/801705.PDF
(remove spaces in url from slashcode if needed)
I am not making this up. Melt down a high end Firestone, or Bridgestone tire and go through the bits near the rim (sometimes at base of tread) and you will locate the transmitter (similar to 'grain of rice' pet ids and Mobile SpeedPass, but not as high tech as the tollbooth based units). Sokymat LOGI 160, and Sokymat LOGI 120 transponder buttons are just SOME of the transponders found in modern high end car tires. The AIAG B-11 Tire tracking standard is now implemented for all 3rd party transponder manufactures [covered below].
It is for QA and to prevent fraud and "car theft", but the US Customs service uses it in Canada to detect people who swap license plates on cars when doing a transport of contraband on a mule vehicle that normally has not logged enough hours across the border. The customs service and FBI do not yet talk about this, and are starting using it soon.
Photos of chips before molded deep into tires!
http://www.sokymat.com/sp/applications/tireid.html
You never heard of it either because nobody moderates on slashdot anymore and this is probably +0 still. It has also never appeared in print before and is very secret.
Californias Fastpass is being upgraded to scan ALL responding car tires in future years upcoming. I-75 may get them next in rural funnel points in Ohio.
The photo of the secret prototype WAS at
http://www.tadiran-telematics.com/products6.html
http://www.telematics-wireless.com/site/index1.php ?ln=en&main_id=33
but the fact is... YOU PROBABLY ALREADY HAVE A RADIO TRANSPONDER not counting your digital cell phone which is routinely silently pulsed in CA bay area each rush hour morning unless turned off (consult Wired Magazine Expose article). Those data point pulses are used by NSA on occasions.
The us FBI with NRO/NSA blessings, has requested us gov make this tire scanning information as secret as the information regarding all us inkjet printers sold in usa in the last 3 years using "yellow" GUID barcode under dark ink regions to serialize printouts to thwart counterfeiting of 20 dollar bills. (30 to 40 percent of ALL California counterfeiting is done using cheap Epson inkjet printers, most purchased with credit ca
"Speaking the Truth in times of universal deceit is a revolutionary act." -- George Orwell
Exactly... that was Alan Moore's main motivation when writing the comics--to try to destroy the apathetic attitude towards the Orwellian dystopias.
It's the electoral system which decides the electability of the political parties. The Labour party for example have only 34% of the vote nationally. Mmm, highly electable. especially when the Conservatives achieved a higher (but irrelevant) 35% of the vote during the election. The UK electoral system is corrupt.
It's perverse to vote for a party you don't believe in on electability grounds when there's a party which (almost) exactly matches your beliefs and which would benefit from support.
Deleted
"If you don't have anything to hide, you don't have anything to worry about."
False. I have my privacy to hide, or it is not private. It's violation subjects me to unaccountable bureaucrats misinterpretation of right or wrong. That worries me.
... enough said. Heaven help anyone who puts any faith into that ridiculous comic.
Looks like you're going to need V pretty soon.
Or more succinctly, V was fiction.
Considering all the times piracy has "killed" PC gaming, shouldn't it be dead rather than a multi-billion dollar industry?
remember, remember the 5th of november the gunpowder treason and plot
We should keep in mind that the UK is NOT a democracy but currently has a totalitarian government. They are trying to use high-tech versions of some of the very same techniques Nazi Germany has employed in order to keep track and exert control over their citizens. This is deeply troubling, appalling, and disgusting and we should be deeply concerned about it.
Dear Mr. Stroller,
We have noticed from your grocery purchases that this month you have been buying a lot of carrots and fresh spring greens , which are rated highly on our approved Nutritional Excellence(tm) list. This has offset the cream cakes you indulge in and we are glad to be able to reduce your health insurance premiums.
Sincerely yours
Perhaps you've never heard of NORA then...
s tory/0,10801,70041,00.html/
Systems Research & Development (SRD) developed its Non-Obvious Relationship Awareness (NORA) technology to help casinos identify cheaters by correlating information from multiple sources about relationships and earlier transactions.
Las Vegas-based SRD, which received funding from the CIA, is now developing several NORA plug-ins to reach further into the world of criminals and terrorists. Last month, the company unveiled a "degrees of separation" capability that finds deeper connections among people.
"It will tell you that the Drug Enforcement Agency's agent's college roommate's ex-wife's current husband is the drug lord," says Jeff Jonas, chief technology officer at SRD. NORA can bridge up to 30 such links, he says.
http://www.computerworld.com/databasetopics/data/
Meet the new boss
Same as the old boss
I'd rather you do it wrong, than for me to have to do it at all.
Its amazing the number of times I have got away with...
Clerk: I need to record some personal information.
Me: Ok
Clerk: Name?
Me: Karl Marx
Clerk: Birthday?
Me: 1818
Clerk: What?
Me: Do you really give a shit?
Clerk: Um no not really "smiles and types it in"
Its much easier to use some boring name and other believable info but somehow its not as much fun.
you should try visiting Israel for a day.
Then you'll really see what REAL gun proliferation is like, hahahaha.
As an additional bonus, you'll get to see machine guns, morters, tanks, anti-tank missles, F-16s and Apaches and lots and lots of rockets if you opt to take a little trip up north now...
Consider yourself blessed.
Ben
Those who have read Bruce Sterling's "The Difference Engine" will start to realise that perhaps his vision was more prophetic than Orwell's. For those unfamiliar, the idea is that if Babbage had perfected his difference engine, there might have been an information technology revolution over 100 years ago, and consequently a very rapid decent into a total surveillance society. Far fetched, but the true value of the novel is that it warns what happens when things are done just because they CAN be done, and no thought ever given to whether they SHOULD be done, simply because as a society the technology isn't really grasped until it's too late. We are at that point now. We work away in our own little niches, building 'cool' stuff because it can be done - but the powers that be are harnessing all this stuff in ways that are truly very frightening indeed.
Yeah, lable me a tin foil hat person, but I'm going to hold out as long as I can
It's not tin-foil-hat paranoia to worry about the government collecting too much personal information. The part where you ask for your shiny chapeau is:
I know you're being sarcastic, but it's not information being free - it's information being collected to control the masses
It is not information being collected to control the masses. That is not the goal, or the reasoning. That's not why the credit card companies and loyalty-card-issuing stores want to collect this info, and that's not why the government wants to see it all. The stores honestly want to market things to you better, so as to make more money. The government honestly wants to stop serious criminals.
You have some very legitimate concerns, but trying to paint the government and the corporations as fascists hungering for domaination won't get you taken seriously, and rightfully so. The big point that needs to be made here is that even with the best of intentions, this sort of centralized power leads to damaging unintended consequences. For example, the RICO act in the US was created to address a very real need to fight organized crime - specifically the Mafia. But now it's being used to fight other organizations (white supremacists, abortion protesters, etc.) And of course it is - if you were a cop trying to stop these people who you felt were doing bad things, you'd use whatever tools you had at your disposal. That's hardly the worst example, and the problem ties into selective enforcement.
With systems like the drug laws in the US, (I know we're talking about a UK story here, but I know the US laws better, so they're my examples) people come to accept that everyone breaks them. Sure, practically everyone smokes pot. It's not a big deal. No one is in a big hurry to go vote or change the laws, 'cause they're not really stopping people from doing what they want. But now, if the local authorities don't like you for some reason - maybe you dated the sheriff's daughter, maybe you protested the war, maybe you're not their favorite race, what have you - now they have something to use against you. If they find out about your pot smoking, they can bust you. Not because their intention is to crack down on drug use, and not because the crafters of the Controlled Substances Act care about the sheriff's daughter or your race, but because the imperfect law met the imperfect law enforcement.
So if you have a friend who thinks this sort of surveillance is a good idea, don't yell at them about how Bush and Blair are fascists who dream about 1984, 'cause they're not, and the only people receptive to that argument are the ones already on your side. Try to make a convincing argument about how unintended consequences in complicated situations can screw up even the best of intentions, and how most reasonably successful governments (including the US and UK ones) are based on the separation of powers. The problem isn't that this is an evil scheme. The problem is that lots of evil comes from earnest schemes.