Slashdot Mirror

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Are you high?
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Nope, although I've probably got enough caffeine in my system to kill a horse. I doubt that's making a difference, though.

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To me platform consitency would mean it looking the SAME on most platforms.
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Umm... Most people who use a given OS use it exclusively, or mostly so. Even if they don't, it's a good bet that they are intimately familiar with the widget set and capabilities of the operating system they use most of the time. Why should we diverge from accepted user interface standards? Should we return to the day when each application had its own user interface? I hope you're not seriously considering such a movement.

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When I load mozilla on NT it pretty much (minus the window manager) looks the same. that is pretty friggen consistant.
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But, it's not consistant with the rest of NT. It's certainly not consistant with the MacOS UI. If you install something that performs global changes on the UI (ie. Various themes, Kaleidoscope, etc) then those won't work either. At the very least, this is a pretty blatant duplication of code/effort. At its worst, it's externally inconsistant with the rest of the OS. Bad UI design.

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Get your head straight and stop dissing a project you most likely know nothing about really.
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Actually, I do know a bit about the project. I've even done some early work on one of the more popular skins that you can use with it. Check MozillaZine's ChromeZone if you'd like.

Perhaps you should refrain from commenting on something (or in this case, someone) you know nothing about?


- Jeff A. Campbell
- VelociNews (http://www.velocinews.com)

Uhm, use Enlightenment as your window manager and check out Aqua-DR16 from e.themes.org - works for me and looks real sweet :)

and then spend $500 on photoshop for windows

Are you saying The GIMP isn't advanced enough yet? It runs just fine for me on Sindows 98.

x11(which generally is much too ugly for a mac user to stand

Or the Aqua themes for GTK and Sawmill that look so not ugly, Apple is suing?

lets see is it "#start x", "#start x windows", hmmmmm how about

How about gdm? 100% GUI from startup to shutdown.

# tell application "X" to open

Interesting... I wonder why nobody has made a CLI shell for Mac OS yet, based on AppleScript and the Open Scripting Architecture.

and then spend $500 on photoshop for windows

Are you saying The GIMP isn't advanced enough yet? It runs just fine for me on Sindows 98.

x11(which generally is much too ugly for a mac user to stand

Or the Aqua themes for GTK and Sawmill that look so not ugly, Apple is suing?

lets see is it "#start x", "#start x windows", hmmmmm how about

How about gdm? 100% GUI from startup to shutdown.

# tell application "X" to open

Interesting... I wonder why nobody has made a CLI shell for Mac OS yet, based on AppleScript and the Open Scripting Architecture.

Every single toolkit is too ugly, therefore X is too ugly.

I'll give you that for Motif, but GTK and many WMs can be themed. If you don't like how your widgets look, go to themes.org and pick up a theme or two.

looks quite a bit like sawmill.

Actually,
I'm more interested in knowing what window manager they are using in the screenshots for that Cycas 2.0 program. Those windows look really cool and I don't remember seeing that one at themes.org.

Can anyone tell me?

--

At which point Sony promptly gets sued by Steve Jobs...

A few?

Everything that makes it a Mac is closed. Carbon, Cocoa, Quartz, Quickdraw, etc. - it's all proprietary. What is "open" is Darwin - a mach kernel with a BSD personality - and that's nothing new. I use "open" in quotes btw because not only is it (obviously) not Free Software I don't think it even qualifies as Open Source. Read the APSL if you don't believe me - check out the termination clause in particular. Now I personally don't have any patents to infringe, but I'd still be an idiot not to recognise a poison pill when I saw it.

This is not to criticise Apple. What they are doing makes perfect sense from their position. It's smart business - smarter than their competition, and it will probably do exactly what they want it to do - improve their profitibility. What doesn't make sense is for the community to be such suckers for it! If MSFT had been smart enough to do the same thing with NT, how many of us would have bought it? How many of us were so enthusiastic when Sun released a few things under a similar license, the SCSL? But because it's Apple somehow it's different?

The same Apple that's threatened themes.org and GNUStep recently? What is wrong with this picture people?

The subject says it all... and the mandatoray link to propaganda.themes.org

cheers!

Go to palm.t.o, and scroll down to the aqua theme. Cool, ain't it? Now look at the things to do list - see the one that says "Ask about pilot.themes.org"? Now you know it's a joke, because Palm isn't allowed to call their device pilot!

"The romance of Silicon Valley was about money - excuse me, about changing the world, one million dollars at a time."

No point putting a dead link in an article, I guess...

Propaganda has been my sole sore for wallpapers of late, and if this truly isn't a April Fool's, it will be sad to see it go. Hopefully someone is as artsy as the old maintainers to provide these types of wallpapers in the future.

It looks like Gnome are working towards removing all dependencies on Enlightenment-related stuff - Imlib for example. The default Gnome window manager for Gnome 2.0 will in all likelihood be Sawmill. I say this for a couple of reasons, the newest being that John Harper (the author of Sawmill) has just been appointed a member of the Gnome 2 Steering Committee.

uh, where's that undo button?

Most people are misinterpretting my question. I meant that the programming behind the panel is icky, while the outside is nice. There are some UI issues, but my main concern was the implimentation, not the look and feel. I love panels too, but currently I have to do kludgy things to get them to work right. see this page: screenshot for what I managed to get the panel to do after a _lot_ of fiddling.

See this to find out what really happened to JFK. You'll be shocked and proud of to be an American...I know I was.

I read what you wrote. Thats why I replied, sonny.
You apparently didnt read my reply, which asked you to clarify the difference between technologies such as nanotech, genetic engineering, and cybernetics and moveable type in respect to it's impact on mankind.

"In the beginning, there was a great flood which covered the surface of the Earth. The fish were the first to die, followed by plants and land animals." - An actual quote from a video I saw on Creationism. Apparently, your God says fish can drown. I dunno who your God is, but my own relationship with God is one where such laughable attempts at legitimate science are passed off as just that -- laughable attempts at legitimate science.

The cure for fear is instruction.

Have a good one,



Bowie J. Poag
Project Founder, PROPAGANDA For Linux (http://propaganda.themes.org)

You sound like a 15th Century monk raving about how the printing press will open a pandoras box and morally bankrupt the human race. All it did was create more jobs and make people as a whole smater, and better-off. Tell me how innovations like nanotech, genetic engineering, or cybernetics differs from moveable type, and then i'll believe your claim.

By the way, here's what a true "militant athiest" would tell you:

"You have nothing to worry about. We have already proved our superiority to our creations. After all, we invented God." :)

Agnostically yours,

Bowie J. Poag
Project Founder, PROPAGANDA For Linux (http://propaganda.themes.org)

Here's something to think about..

I wrote a paper in my Philosophy class not too long ago, in where I argued two basic premises:

A) As AI improves, it reaches the point of self-obsolescence. A truly perfect AI is only a mirror of human thought and behavior, and we have that anyway. Why bother.

B) Any truly perfect AI should then in turn be able to produce AI of its own, as we have. So what good is it? It's just a dog chasing its own extremely, extremely long tail. Why bother.

I got an A- on it. Any thoughts? :)



Bowie J. Poag
Project Founder, PROPAGANDA For Linux (http://propaganda.themes.org)

This school can't even afford intelligent teachers..What makes you think they can afford IR detectors? :)

Mirthfully yours,

Bowie J. Poag
Project Founder, PROPAGANDA For Linux (http://propaganda.themes.org)

Sounds like a spiffy idea at the outset, but, keep in mind that quite a few laptops these days have IR ports on them. Nothing prevents you and your neighbor from sharing/comparing your answers. It defeats the whole purpose of having a test in the first place -- a test is meant to determine how well you've aquired a certain skill or chunk of knowledge -- not how fast you can _retrieve_ that knowledge from a secondary source. Friend in the seat next to you, internet, or otherwise.

Then again, if you trust anything you read on the Internet, you deserve to fail.

Written from my happy IR-equipped Thinkpad,

Bowie J. Poag
Project Founder, PROPAGANDA For Linux (http://propaganda.themes.org)

Actually, we did switch licenses. Propaganda (technically) is no longer flying the GPL flag. I've been waiting for Naru to change the contents of the page for quite a while now.

If I knew then (back in November 98) what I know now, I would have never picked the GPL. If you're wondering what possessed me to choose the GPL in the first place, it was because there was some talk at the time that portions of the GPL might be rewritten to allow for non-coded forms of media such as sound, graphics, etc. Never happened, unfortunately. It just feels like the GPL started out a great idea, but in the end, it virtually forces you to remain poor if you stick with it.
Thats the sad part, really. It sets the stage for the sort of thing we're seeing in the Linux community these days. A massive, massive inequity between the companies now swimming in billions of dollars of capital, and the programmers who can barely pay their rent.

By "compensated", I wasnt referring strictly to money. For example, wouldn't it be nice if programmers whos work appears in Red Hat could list a contact-person at Red Hat as a reference on their job resume? Or VA's volunteers, for that matter? I dont see them doing that. It would be horribly simple for them to do, and it would be extremely beneficial to the Linux community. It would cost Red Hat absolutely nothing to do, and they aren't doing it. They, ultimately, are a business. Red Hat and VA dont have to care. They have to make money. Expecting them to care goes beyond the call of any business if you think about it. The song remains the same. An $11B company makes money off my work, regardless of the fact that its not an "integral" part of the distrib.

By the way, for the record, Propaganda is now licensed under Perl Artistic. Thanks, Larry :)



Bowie J. Poag
Project Founder, PROPAGANDA For Linux (http://propaganda.themes.org)

Apparently Caldera only feels it should reward the developers who will make the company rich come IPO-day. Im surprised more people arent insulted by that idea. Its like, hey, you're an Apache developer--Here's a chance to get in on our stock! Meanwhile, lets suppose you're working on some equally relevant but less-popular project.. No jello for you, little boy. Youre not popular!

Does anyone know if Caldera bundles Propaganda with their distribution? If so, i'll fire off a little letter to them and ask them what the hell they're thinking, and post the results here. I think it would be rather novel for them to attempt to explain their choice of preference in handing out letters.

No, I dont expect letters, and thats not why I got into Linux in the first place. However, if some company like Red Hat, or VA, or Debian, or Mandrake starts making millions off my work (and other peoples work) I'm not going to sit back and not give a shit. I went into CompUSA the other day, and counted six boxes on the shelves which carry my work, going for anywhere from $39.95 to $99.95...Someone is making money, hand over fist, off your work, and off my work. I have a right to question why many of us remain uncompensated when theres money like that changing hands.

Red Hat is a 11 billion dollar company. Dont see them compensating the people who continue to make their distribution usable, do you?



Bowie J. Poag
Project Founder, PROPAGANDA For Linux (http://propaganda.themes.org)

In the last few months, I've had alot of time to sit back and examine what happens when people give out ideas freely, myself included in that..Giving it out in the name of "community", and the ideal that we should all work together on important things..

After alot of thinking, I've petty much come down to one simple conclusion. What happens to people who decide to be generous within the Linux community, ultimately, they get screwed.. And screwed hard. They get screwed hard because the Linux community is no longer the same because there are huge inequities between the key players. The distance between common users and key players used to be measured in terms of popularity. Now the distance is measured in billions of dollars of market capital. New motives (motives which have nothing whatsoever to do with community improvement) have woven their way into what it means to support the Linux movement.. The main goal of development has turned from simple joy into a profit-making frenzy.

Now, in my own case, I can look back over what I've done in the past 10 years, and I see two things. I see a group of people who have absolutely no qualms about ripping me off, and a group of people who were honestly thankful for the things I and others had contributed -- In the past, the group of people who had no qualms about ripping me off were comparably small, compared to the number of people who understood and appreciated the work I and others had done. Nowadays, everything is turned around. The group of people who have no qualms about basically using people has grown to an enormous size, and the group of well-meaning individuals has similarly shrank down to a tiny portion of what it used to be. This is what happens when people stop caring about the effort, and begin caring more about the money. It happened to every single company and project I can think of when it comes to Linux.

The party's over, as far as Linux is concerned. As time goes on, more and more people are going to figure this sort of thing out for themselves. If you're looking for an example, look at Red Hat. Right now, they're sitting on $11,000,000,000 in market capital. Eleven billion dollars, guys. Now, do you see Red Hat going out of their way to make amends for the fact that so many people got screwed out of their IPO invitations last year because they refused to lie on an investor quesitonairre? Were the efforts of countless Linux developers good enough to deserve the offer, but not good enough to try and remedy the situation now that they have ample resources, time, and opportunity to do so? They're still making money hand over fist with your work, aren't they? If you were at the helm, would it be different? Why are they (and other Linux companies making money off the free labor of others) doing nothing about this?

As long as this sort of thing remains commonplace, people will get hurt. Conditions aren't right anymore to share ideas openly. There are too many sharks in the pool willing to advance their careers at the expense of small users and developers.

At least thats how I see it. Just putting my 2 cents into it.



Bowie J. Poag
Project Founder, PROPAGANDA For Linux (http://propaganda.themes.org)

screenshots of the latest kernel with half naked chicks in the background are at kernel.themes.org

Looks like Sony is taking a page from Microsoft's marketing playbook. Pretty box, but..no thanks. Time to buy a Dreamcast. :)

Bowie J. Poag
Project Founder, PROPAGANDA For Linux (http://propaganda.themes.org)

Agreed. I dont think you guys (the four of you, specifically) were to blame. You were doing the same as us, basically, working in ultraprivate. However, theres at least one person at VA I know of who cant enjoy a position of innocence, and he knows who he is. He's also the one who has to live with it on his conscience.

Thats enough for me.


Bowie J. Poag
Project Founder, PROPAGANDA For Linux (http://propaganda.themes.org)

Excuse me?

I usually dont respond to trolls, but, Ill make an exception here for Mr. Anoymous.

I happened to be the guy heading up that "volunteer project". I cant speak for the 11 other people who were a part of that project, but I can certainly speak for myself.. If you or any other anonymous troll has something to say to me, you can email me. My address is right at the top of this response, and I generally check my mail 2-3 times per day.

If I really had anything to say about the whole mess that happened between VA and System 12 last year, I would have already said it. Infact, I've probably done a few key people at VA a favor by not telling more people what happened. I saw what happened. And yes, I have my suspicions. I choose to keep those to myself these days.

As for what other people may say or think about VA, sorry, that really isnt my concern anymore. I stopped waving the flag for VA once I found out for myself what sort of company they are.. I learned a very important lesson through it all, and I felt other people might somehow benefit from hearing it, I still couldnt say anything, or else get slapped with a libel suit. However, I'm kinda glad a few people know, if you want my honest opinion. Life has a happy way of finding an equilibrium between right and wrong, good and bad. What comes around goes around, I guess. VA isnt exempt from that.

Have a good one,

Bowie J. Poag
Project Founder, PROPAGANDA For Linux (http://propaganda.themes.org)

Well said.

Bowie J. Poag
Project Founder, PROPAGANDA For Linux (http://propaganda.themes.org)

Bahahaha..good one!

Bowie J. Poag
Project Founder, PROPAGANDA For Linux (http://propaganda.themes.org)

Heh. For once, I can see the ninja guy's point. Slashdot is decaying..All the posts nowadays are so ripe with cluelessness that its really becoming tiresome.

Well, for the sake of ignoring this article, and talking about something truly interesting, lets have a look at this:

I propose we establish a standard unit of measurement for cluelessness. We will measure it in units of Gore. I think Al Gore's as good a benchmark as any..Alan Cox is, lets say, 0 Gore. He knows all. Whoever thought this original article deserved to be issued to upwards of a million readers weighs in at, say, 1.0x10^23 Gore.

All those in favor say "I".

Bowie J. Poag
Project Founder, PROPAGANDA For Linux (http://propaganda.themes.org)

Let's turn this around: frankly, the average linux-programmer lacks the skill to make joe use linux.

It takes skill to be able to create an interface that people can use whose lives revolve around other things besides computers. Not everyone has that skill. There's a lot of talented linux programmers out there who are very good at creating a stable, flexible core-operating system. There's not a whole lot of skilled interface designers. My guess is that this is due to the fact that being a good interface-designer requires having to be exceptionally good at programming, graphic design and psychology, all at the same time. It's hardly surprising there's not a whole lot of these uebergeniuses around. The alternative is to get a group of people whose combined skills approach the ideal. For its time, I think the Apple Lisa/Mac team was such a group. And if you'll recall, large numbers of people recognized their skills and went out to buy Macs, even though they were then, as now, ridiculously expensive.

We can only hope that such a team will form in the linux community and come up with a new and usable interface paradigm suitable for today's computing power. Most likely, however, as soon as someone does manage to assemble a team like that, it will be bought up by some large corporation. The company that manages to achieve a truly new, workable interface will dominate the market for the next ten years, at least. Betcha Bill Gates would gladly offer half his assets to such a team.

The reason why this is so important is not because the average joe is "dumb", but because the average joe thinks it's a waste of time to fumble with config files and xservers. Only a very small group people actually enjoy this. Most mortals just want to get their work done, go home and look at porn on the Internet.

That's strange: I've used the nightly binaries and just built the current CVS, and they both run circles around communicator 4.6. (I haven't bothered to upgrade to 4.7's bugs yet) As an example, load Mozilla M13 or M14 and look at a graphics-intensive site like the Wallpapers section at customize.org. or any of the themes.org sites. It takes about 1.5 minutes to render a 20-image page from customize.org on Netscape, and less than half that on Mozilla. Slashdot and other text-heavy sites seem close to equal on both browsers.

For the people keeping score at home, that's Netscape Communicator 4.61 and Mozilla current CVS configured with --disable-mailnews --disable-debug --enable-x11-shm, on a P200 running Linux 2.2.13

this is propaganda.
No it isn't. Propaganda is a really cool set of tiled wallpaper!

I wonder what Kennedy has to say on the topic of MP3's (I know I am way offtopic! :)

Linux shouldn't necessarily compete with Windows.

A lot of people, including me, will agree with you on this. I think Linux (and friends) got where they are today due to their disregard of Windows. The idea has not been to create a competitor for Windows. It was to create a stable, flexible, open, modular operating environment. The fact that Windows happens to be none of these things is what makes Linux a threat to Microsoft.

However, now that many people have become used to using Linux, they get disgusted when they are required to use Windows. I work on Windows NT boxes all day long and think how much productivity is wasted fixing things that never would have broken in the first place if we were using Linux or BSD. What bothers me most is that I have to click 20 different things to do something in Windows that could be done in Linux by typing a short, if perhaps cryptic, command.

That said, I'll really be happy to see better GUI utilities for Linux. Gnome's file manager (yes there is one, despite what the article claims) just doesn't cut it for me. I hate to say it but I'd rather use NT Explorer (not to be confused with Internet Explorer) than gfm. Fortunately I find it pretty easy to use the shell instead and type "cp file1 file2" to copy files, "mv file1 file2" to move files, and "rm file" to remove a file. So I rarely use a file manager anyway. There are times however when I prefer to see a visual representation of the file system...especially in cases where the filesystem is complex, or just plain messy. I understand why Nautilus seems to be Eazel's primary focus at this point.

BTW, in case anyone hasn't mentioned this, non-Linux/*nix users can get a look at many of the currently available configurations/themes for Linux at http://e.themes.org. I'm really just pointing this out because I object to the idea that people's Linux desktops are all ugly. True, the default Redhat 6.x desktops are as bland as Win2k's default, but there is a lot of flexibility already in how you can make it look. As a default setting, bland is better anyway.

numb

You want me to buy you a t-shirt or something?

Bowie J. Poag
Project Manager, PROPAGANDA For Linux (http://propaganda.themes.org)

Nice poem. Really.

(laugh)

Bowie J. Poag
Project Manager, PROPAGANDA For Linux (http://propaganda.themes.org)

I could care less if he uses Word. It would confirm alot of suspicions I have (i.e. Katz doesn't know a tinker's damn about the very things he claims to be an expert on) ..I just thought it would be interesting for people to know what happened this morning.

As for going and making a new Slashdot somewhere else...naah. I've always said, imitation isn't the sincerest form of flattery. Imitation is showing the world youre too lazy and too stupid to do it better yourself. :)

Slashdot has problems. Doesn't mean we should turn our backs on it, tho. Its just the problems are becoming more numerous. The Linux community is turning from a fun experiment into a class-driven heirarchy of haves and have-nots. It just isnt the same anymore.



Bowie J. Poag
Project Manager, PROPAGANDA For Linux (http://propaganda.themes.org)

You can piss vinegar all you want about me , thats fine..You're welcome to. However, it doesn't erase the facts.

The fact is, Katz DID posted a different article this morning. The article was viewed many people, probably a few hundred of us. Had it remained online, he would have been flamed to no end for using Word by many of us.

The fact is, he posted it, and immediately people (like me) saw the embarassing truth.. By the time he (Katz) corrected it, it was already too late. The cat was out of the bag, and the flames were shaping up to be pretty immense. Now, in my opinion, to avoid having his reputation among Linux users sink even further, Katz used his power as a Slashdot author to then pull the article out of circulation, negating everyone who had posted responses to the original post in the process. Thats what I looks like to me. I call it like I see it.

Now, if i'm right, that means two things -- Katz's behavior not only smacks of stupidity, it smacks of censorship. If he's not prepared to take the full breadth of criticisms lodged against him (no matter how lame or intelligent) then he doesn't belong here, let alone in the profession he's chosen.

See, he has the ability to erase embarrasments like this. Ask yourself, do you have the same ability here on Slashdot?

And shouldn't you?

And why not?


Bowie J. Poag
Project Manager, PROPAGANDA For Linux (http://propaganda.themes.org)

I call it like I see it. Katz's blather doesn't really belong here on Slashdot, IMHO. It never has, and I really don't think it ever will. This isn't simple Katz-bashing. He's earned his reputation, just the same as all of us have earned our respective reputations.

I think in the long run, the addition of Jon Katz to Slashdot will go down in the books as the beginning of the end. I remember when Slashdot used to be a friendly place. Now we're all polarized into camps due to the anger generated by a singular idiot on a soapbox. To this day, I dont think many of us really know _why_ Rob put this guy here, or why he insists on keeping him here.

Square peg, round hole. No matter how hard you bash the damn thing, twist it or encourage it to fit, it never will.

I miss the old Slashdot.


Bowie J. Poag
Project Manager, PROPAGANDA For Linux (http://propaganda.themes.org)

Heh.. here's the link to Katz's original article that he posted this morning, before trying to pull it. Hopefully, it will still be there by the time you read this. Dont be surprised if it isnt. If Katz deletes it to make the cover-up complete, I've provided a link to it snapshotted off my own browser. Im surprised people arent screaming "censorship!!" over his attempt to quietly dispose of the criticisms people (like myself) were giving him on the original article he removed.

The article Katz pulled this morning
Snapshots of the post before it was pulled off Slashdot

To study or to play,


Bowie J. Poag
Project Manager, PROPAGANDA For Linux (http://propaganda.themes.org)

I noticed it too. Infact, I felt it was rather underhanded.

Katz's original story (on the dead of newspapers) was riddled with obvious proof he wrote it in Microsoft Word... all the ' characters were "?"'s instead.

He tried to quickly go back and correct them by hand, and when he saw the cat was already out of the bag, he pulled the article in its entirety to prevent people from knowing he made it in Microsoft Word.

Want proof?

Here you go -- I'm in the process of uploading the proof as we speak. I took screen snapshots of the original article out of my browser cache. The snapshot of the article was taken after he went back to correct the Microsoft Word mistakes. My reply (#10) was written with a direct quote from the original version. Here's the URL:

http://www.linuxpimp.com/~bowie

Now you know why we hate you, Katz.


Bowie J. Poag
Project Manager, PROPAGANDA For Linux (http://propaganda.themes.org)

Propaganda's contributions to VA and the community were "overlooked", in your words. I also have the email.

It had to be brought to your attention, before you even realized it, Chris. Thats what matters. Most of the people who helped out VA on a volunteer basis were similarly "overlooked"..You guys just didn't care. That told me a great deal about how much importance VA places in recognizing the volunteers who helped them get where they are today..At one point, I stopped and counted over a dozen people who put a great deal of work in making themes.org, and other sites look nice, who werent given the same consideration.

Considering the total scam that took place when VA ent public (i.e. an artificially high opening price that magically jumped to $300 a share a minute and a half after the opening bell) I'm glad I decided not to be involved in that horseshit.

The fact that no one knew, and no one cared was a valuable lesson. Worth more than any praise and esteem it would have meant to be recognized, and certainly worth more than any money I would have made on the stock.

No, I dont hate you, Chris. But the company you work for is far, far different on the inside than they appear to be on the outside.



Bowie J. Poag
Project Manager, PROPAGANDA For Linux (http://propaganda.themes.org)

Hi!

Thank you for submitting your various clue-deprived assumptions to the world. I'll now take the time to correct them, and you.

Firstly, the "same damn swirly-theme-with-some-random-set-of-colors-in-som e-boring-pattern motif" apparently is quite popular. To date, we've had well over 30 million hits on the site, not to mention about 300,000 visitors since the project began just over a year ago. Did I mention the 1,200,000 copies of Red Hat 6.0, and 6.1 which ship with a good sized chunk of Propaganda tiles on each? Oh, lest we forget Mandrake..them too by virtue of association. I dont think your view is shared by the populous.

Secondly, my work (and Naru's subsequent work) is not being "forced" on you, or anyone. To my knowledge, no one is being subjected to our collection of free desktop backgrounds against their will. Check with Amnesty International. I'm sure they have a few people looking out for this and other serious civil rights abuses.

Thirdly, and most importantly, you're completely and absolutely wrong in this case:

"No accounting for taste, of course, but I just don't see what the big deal is about Propaganda's stuff that it has to get (likely extraordinary) funding from VA Linux, among other things."

You wanna know how much "extraordinary funding" i've recieved from VA Linux Systems? Zero. Thats right, you read it correctly. Nothing. Zero. $0.00. In British Pounds, that translates to 0.00. In pesos, thats 'cero'. In Lire, thats also 0.00... Infact, if you really want to get down to it, this project cost me about 1000 hours of work, and about $450 out of pocket. Red Hat never paid me a dime..I got an IPO invitation from them, but silly me, I refused to lie on a financial statement with E-Trade in order to get in on it. Damn those morals of mine! What about VA? VA didnt even recognize me when they were handing out IPO invitations.

As you can see, i've made absolutely no money from this project. Guess what that means? That means youre complaining about something youre getting FOR FREE. The whole reason you're getting it for free, because for a long time I liked making people happy by putting whatever talent I had to use for the Linux community. And you, sitting pretty in a position to pass judgement over an entire year's worth of labor, and the sum total of nearly eight hundred images, would like everyone in the world to know that "Its not something to get all worked up about."

Well, thank you for your comment. I hope that you'll continue to take mine, and other's work for granted. Naru's work may not yet be as refined as mine, but thats no reason to afford him any less respect.

In the meantime, you, and other people who find it necessarry to look a gift horse in the mouth can form a line to the left to kiss my ass. Lucky for you, thats also free. You see, its people like you that remind me of why I stopped doing things for other people for free.

Have a GREAT day,


Bowie J. Poag
Project Manager, PROPAGANDA For Linux (http://propaganda.themes.org)

.. is still in e.themes.org: yes, Apple logo indeed.

But that theme does use the Apple logo.. Look at the center of the very top of the screenshot Leaving this one up was probably just an oversight.

NJV

They missed quite a few themes that include the Macintosh logo. Well, at least one, this one. Not that I am asking for them to be removed, but is it really Macintosh logos they're after, or is it they don't want MacOSX look alikes? Cant' help but to wonder eventhough I am familiar with copyright laws and Mac's need to enforce it (or loose it). Could be they just didn't notice these other themes.

Apple probably has a point with this, if the themes had the Apple logo in them. The Apple logo is a trademark and they must protect it. I just checked sawmill.themes.org and all the Mac OS X like themes (like Aqua X are still present.
Of course none of the ones remaining have Apple logos.