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DNA To Solve History's Mysteries?
ATKeiper asks: "DNA evidence has been used in criminal trial proceedings for years, perhaps most notoriously in the Simpson murder trial. Now, however, people are just starting to awaken the possibility that DNA might prove or disprove settled or forgotten cases. The son of Sam Sheppard, the doctor on whom the film The Fugitive was based, is trying to use DNA evidence to prove his dad's innocence. This week, a company announced it will use DNA profiles to investigate unsolved crimes. Genetic data has been used to determine whether Thomas Jefferson had an affair, and to examine a mystery of the French monarchy. Can Slashdot readers think of other historical debates which DNA evidence might help resolve definitively?"
1) how closely inbred was ancient Egyptian Royalty? 2) can the Lindbergh baby kidnap/murder be examined for DNA evidence? 3)identification of unknown American soldiers, from Revolution to present ...just a few...
Yes! Was Mary Stewart's son the son of her husband, or of one of her many lovers? How many of Charles II's "bastards" were really his? (My family claims descent, and my long hooked nose is a duplicate (trial in a woman, to be sure) but I think it's hooey.
Seriously, why did space aliens feel compelled to kill Elvis Aron Presley, the King?
I think it is because they knew his innate goodness would counteract their satanic anal probing.
What do you think?
(Boy, am I tired)
But everyone already knows it was Lisa.
Sheesh
In Japan there exists a group of, for lack of a better term, lower caste that are shunned by many. DNA showed that the emperor and these folks were closely related.
Unknown soldiers, daughters of Russia, etc. could be tested with DNA samples.
You could use DNA samples to follow migration patterns of the earliest hominids. Correlating it with mutation rates in language could yield clues to when early civilizations moved and to where.
Bet they did DNA testing on that one
Digging up Andrew Jackson? Lincoln? Who's next? Maybe your dad, or you? Well, I sleep well at night knowing that will never happen in my family. When we die, we choose cremation. And not because of cost, but because we'll never have to worry about being desecrated by being dug up. What do you do with the cemetary that's filled up amd 100 years old? No one visits it anymore. A city has grew up around it, making those acres of land valuable. Upkeep cost $$$. Plow it over and build condos over it. If they actually do remove the bodies, they just dump them somewhere else in a mass grave. How honourable. Or some cereal-box detective has a whacked out idea that Lincoln was poisoned too. Let's dig him up and test the body! Won't happen to me. Of course, with all these new tools to solve ancient crimes, gov't will want to use them. And so, we'll see a ban on cremation, even for deaths NOT occuring under suspicious circumstances, "just in case" something comes up later.
the Renault 5 were innocent
C'mon most artwork of him has him surrounded by a glow. Maybe Jesus was radioactive? That means extra amounts of irridated carbon in the shroud, thus making it appear to be not as old!
We Republicans will hold you to that promise.
Sorry to be blunt, but you're full of shit, mate.
Negroes are a racial group distinct from Caucasians, not just in terms of skin colour but also skull shape and a number of other distinct physiological features. This isn't even debateable by anyone with even a passing familiarity with modern physical anthrology.
Most of your other statements are equally bogus, but I weary of pointing out each one in any detail. Go read something besides fashionable leftist social science twaddle.
In short, sir, you are an ignoramous.
Let's solve the "Great taste - less filling" debate!
Yeah, great one. But you weren't the first jackass. Read comment #1.
The woman who claimed to be Anastasia was umasked as an imposter, years after her death. I remember seeing a special on the Discovery channel which used DNA analysis to arrive at the fact. She had developed a tumor during the last years of her life. That tumor was surgically removed and was stored in a hospital for further study. The time that Anastasia turned up coincided with the time that a Polish girl had mysteriously disappeared. There was a missing person report filed with the authorities. The DNA of the descendents of the person(a Polish farmer) who'd filed the missing person report was collected and matched against the DNA extracted from the tumor. They matched! Proving conclusively that she inherited genes from a Polish farmer and not from Tsar Nicholas.
I thought it was Maggy ...
What's in the past should stay in the past unless it is a Federal crime that remains to be solved... That's all I need is my taxes wasted to find out if our president had an affair.
Umm..for "speef" read "speed". And for those unfamiliar with the shroud's "origin": It's acclaimedly the shroud Jesus from Nazareth was swept in after his death.
All the more likely that a match in the OJ Simpson case was genuine. Unless you really believe in the conspiracy theory.
DNA does not "mix". If the sample is contaminated, either one will get a clean match with the foreign DNA, a clean match with sample DNA, or gibberish, depending what material is picked up.
You can't get a match for something that is not there. DNA evidence is not like paints which can be mixed to get different colors.
Of course, re: the O.J. case, you still have to have a jury that's competent enough to understand it...
No, that jury was proof of the incompetence of a lot of jurors to handle this kind of evidence intelligently...like you, they are ignorant of the science involved, and easily swayed by jive talking, confusion-inducing defence attorneys who have no interest in having juries understand the science of DNA testing.
a
Under the assumption that the shroud is legit, which is something DNA can't prove.
You're not first, yo.
How about Monica Lewinksy's Dress (Score:0)
by Anonymous Coward on Friday March 24, @11:56AM EST (#2)
Bet they did DNA testing on that one
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Hell Yeah! Moderate this bitch up! He is so freaking right and the guy who posted the original article is so freaking wrong!
if it looks like a carpenter and acts like a a carpenter...where's the town carpenter and why is he always so tired!
This technique is going to be used to authenticate items sold for the upcoming Olympics. The DNA is coming from a random athlete whose identity is known only to two other people.
1. use DNA to determine whether supposed linguistic links between languages are causal or coincidental.
"Supposed"?
the Ayrian hypothesis of those despicable Nazis arose because of philological similarities. Do DNA similarities also exist.
That's "Aryan". Some of those "despicable" Nazis knew a lot more about philology than you do. And yes, DNA research has already found similarities between these groups as well. You really need to read up.
6. Determine the nationality of the "ice man" who came out of the alps. Also that of the caucasoid mummies found in central china.
"Nationality" is an anachronism in this context since our existing nations did not then exist. DNA will never tell us anything about a person's culture, religion, language, ethnicity, nationality, etc.
In any case you are miles behind what we already know: physical anthropologists can already determine racial grouping by skull shape, so there is no mystery as to the identity of the ice man or the Tarim Basin mummies. The fact that these mummies had red or blonde hair was a little bit of a giveaway, too.
7. Verification of Al Gore's claim that republicans have an extra chromosome.
Perhaps we could also verify whether Gore has any sylvan DNA. So we can know not to stand him too long in any one spot to prevent him from taking root.
"Sniff". Your post has the distinct odor of "creation science". Next you'll be trying to prove that the British are the lost tribes of Isreal or some other folderal.
In reference to the pinging Mr. Gates soul, i figured it wouldnt work due to the super tight security that surrounds all that money. Your Ping was blocked, however a TRACERT reveals some intersting items. tracert soul.bill.gates.microsoft.com 1 10ms 10ms enter.darkplace.com 2 10ms 10ms training.dictator.darkplace.com 3 10ms 10ms appletalk.training.dictator.darkplace.com 4 10ms 10ms telecommuterouter.appletalk.training.darkplace.com 5 5123ms 5123ms 2400baudconnect.telecommuteterouter.appletalk.trai ning.darkplace.com 6 timeout.... 7 timeout....
The Shroud did contain blood. It was confirmed to
be that of Jesus since there was only one set of
chromosomes - thus his middle initial, "H"
- Jesus H(Haploid) Christ. The DNA has been
amplified by PCR, used to construct several
YAC-based libraries, and will be used to clone
The Savior. Thus the Second Coming is upon us.
Scientists are looking for a suitable egg
donor to receive the reconstructed genetic
material and thereby become the New Virgin Mary.
Here's the link:
Except that the particular parchment images I am referring to also illustrate the pre-historical holes that are still found on the Shroud. That as opposed to the holes who's history are known.
Don Knotts is dead. Stop fucking with him!
randall_burns@hotmail.com One of the major debates in this area right now is between Bryan Sykes of Oxford and L. Cavalli-Sforza of Stanford. One of the centerpieces of mainstream academic thought on the origins of European peoples is that the most significant migration came out of the Middle East thousands of years ago. There is another school of thought (representives include Thor Heyerdahl, C. Diop and Lewis Spence) that hypothesis that there was a significant migration up the Atlantic coast-largely by see in thousands of years ago. Now the significance of this question is that the entire popular history of deep antiquity could be re-written around this issue, which as I understand it is now largely surrounding a debate between two eminent scientists on how reliable the current DNA testing methodology really is.
WHO GIVES A SHIT about the so-called mysteries? Why don't they use the damn shit to cure Cancer? Why don't they use it to cure AIDS. WHy don't they use it to cure the millions of people who are dying every day from genetic and non-genetic plagues?? Unfortunately the big money pharmaceutical companies will be obsolete if such a thing happens so they rather use the knowledge for BULLSHIT instead of using it for what the reasearch was MEANT to do in the first place. SICKENING
Get in your time machine and get DNA samples from all of the suspects and match them up with crime scene samples, and voila! You've got your suspect.
Slashdot is for sale to the highest bidder - or Andover is. Why would i want NOT to be anonymous? Karma Whore Sellout?
One day we'll proably give an answer to the
question whether life evolved on earth
"out of dust" or whether seeds of life were
blown through solar winds across the space.
Examing DNA for "useless information" not
developed for life here on the planet would be
pretty strong.
Or a mathematical recalculation how long it
probably took to develop DNA of a given complexity
and finding out that more time was needed than
the age of this planet...
Take the case of Thomas Jefferson/Sally Hemmings. As strenously pointed out by the person who performed the test, the DNA evidence only points to the Hemmings descendents sharing some paternal DNA with Jefferson descendents - it does not prove that Thomas Jefferson fathered children with Sally Hemmings. Any of Thomas Jefferson's relations could have done so with Hemmings, or with any of Hemmings' relations, both before, during, and after Sally Hemmings lifetime.
The media frenzy over this - misrepresenting the test results to prove a point which they wanted to believe to have been proved - was an excellent example of the danger of the misrepresentation of DNA test results.
Personally, I don't care one way or the other over this question, but the only non-DNA evidence for it are based on the "testimony" of a political muck raking journalist several times convicted of libel, and the "family tradition" of Hemmings descendants who would, quite naturally, prefer to believe that they descended from a famous American President and Founding Father, rather than from one of his randy cousins, nephews, sons, or other paternal relations.
The desire to believe a given outcome oft biases the interpretion of data.
Gee. I didn't know he was on trial for having an affair? When did this become "illegal"?
To finally let us know... Which came first? the chicken? or the egg? Anonymous Coward ~Today's mighty oak is just yesterday's nut that held it's ground.
Perhaps I'm biased since I work in one of the premier labs doing this sort of stuff, but I think the most interesting use of DNA analysis right now is that of figuring out the evolution of humans. Examples include things like Svante Paabo's group sequencing mitochondrial DNA from Neandertal and concluding that modern humans and Neandertal didn't interbreed, or the studies using genetic data to show how the peopling of the Polynesian Islands occurred, or....
The Irish are not a true Celtic population. The Irish-Celtic myth was created in the 18th century for Irish Nationalistic reasons. You should re-read the article you posted because it reinforces the claim that the Irish aren't a Celtic population.
She did not have Romonov DNA. She was a phony (great epsiode of NOVA on that one).
It is not possible, this link proves my point, trust me:
http://xlem.hypermart.net
ELBA --- Napoleon Slept here
It's bad enough that we're trying 10 year old crimes, but this is ridiculous.
DNA samples can easily get contaminated if not *carefully* preserved.
When artifacts are placed together in museums, or are handled by the same person, the risk of cross contamination increases dramatically.
Also, just because two people are in the same place, it doesn't mean they were there at the same time (years can separate them).
The lost granddaughter.. the single alleged survival of Bolshevik revolution?
I don't know how reliable the dating of the parchments are, but even if we accept them as older, it doesn't follow that there has to be something wrong with the tests of the shroud. There is no way of knowing whether the shroud is the same as the one referenced in the parchments. It could be a reproduction of an earlier shroud or a fake inspired by these descriptions. During the times we are talking about here Europa was aflood in shrouds, and enough bits of the Cross to make up a forest.
DNA evidence proved that there were genetic links between the Hemings and Jefferson families, however, they do not prove thar Jefferson himself was doing pulling a Clinton. Its long been known (even back in Jefferson's) that Sally Hemings was the child of Betty Hemings and Jefferson's father-in-law, and their entire family enjoyed special treatment from the Wayles/Jefferson Clan. Ergo, Hemings was the half-sister of Jefferson's beloved wife -- Indeed the families are genetic related, but whether or not Jefferson and Hemings enjoyed a romantic relationship may never REALLY be known, in spite of what the drooling masses see on TV. Do yourselves a favor, read a book sometime.
We've been trying to prove for years that Ronald Reagan was the bastard sun of a slime mold from Regulus IV and a spider monkey. Surely we can prove this from a DNA inspection
And just *who* is it who was buried in that tomb in Gesthemene? Is the Shroud of Turin genuine? We just need to get a DNA sample from God. We're made in His image, that must mean that he's got DNA also.... -russ
Sorry, the HTML tags get me every time!
:-)
This so-called "DNA testing" is little better than throwing chicken entrails and probably less effective than floating witches. On a scale of genuine science, it's on a par with lie detection, and despite the highly-publicised cases, it's not something that most reputable forensic scientists would use if they could get the number of a reliable psychic.
Let's get a few facts straight here: There are over a hundred billion DNA/RNA pairs in a typical human's genotype. A given sample is taken at the phentypic level, and will contain at most a single billion. So you've lost 99% of your sample right there.
Then, you have to hope that the genetic material in your sample will be genuine genes and not "junk DNA" -- the biological equivalent of line noise. Some people claim that the genuine genes are the blueprint put there by God himself and that the junk DNA represents the noise introduced by microevolution (NOT macroevolution, which has as little scientific basis as Creation Science), but I guess we'd better not get into that debate here.
Anyway, 80% of a given sample is junk (actually 99% of the whole genome, but a "surface RNA" sample means that tissue found is likely to have more real DNA and less junk). So you're down to about 20 basis points of information.
You can usually narrow it down to a specific racial group -- Caucasian, Frankish, Mongoloid, Australaborigineal, Americaboriginal, Celtic/Welsh or Basque (interestingly, Negroid is not a real racial group, but is a dark-skinned version of Caucasian in genetic terms -- one in the eye for "scientific racists"). But to get it matched to a specific individual? You'd be lucky.
That's how they caught OJ Simpson, by the way, as you can find out by looking at the *whole* transcript of the trial. It so happened that he was an unusual blend of dark-Caucasian, light-Caucasian and Americaboriginal blood, which matched the blood sample. And blood DNA is particularly high in non-junk sequences.
DNA testing is a useful tool in modern medicine, but its perversion by the hype artists and historians (at least, some historians -- I have to confess to being impressed at the discovery that the DNA samples from the Turin shroud were literally unique) is a disappointment to the real researchers in this fascinating field. We shouldn't give these morons, relativists and pseudoscientists the airtime they clearly crave when making sensationalist claims like this. Or at least, we should ask them to come up with a working cold-fusion generator first
Thomas Jefferson's children he supposedly sired by one of his slaves perhaps?
Are you talking about the that tangy fruit juice or the cartoon show (who shoot mr. burns)? Both of them involved Simpson DNA.
"Internet Explorer is not demonstrably the current 'best of breed' Web browser"
Real men dump cores! Read my journal, I am neat.
NO!!!!!
First response!
Mastah_Monkey pours hot grits down Vic's pants.
Trollin Trollin Trollin
Get tha first postin
Slaaashdaaaaaat
(c)Mastah_Monkey
Europe was a bunch of trading nations already then, however. If there's tobacco in the mummies, why not cotton in Tourin... Anyways - point is the textile itself could be DNA tested with so minor damage that authorities might find it acceptable. Results could be compared to plants of known origin and "timestampe". Of course cotton and linnen doesn't mutate at the speef of banana flies, but i'm sure locale variants exist, enabling a more educated speculation about the shroud's real age.
Isn't it true that we could never prove Hitler's death? Supposedly, we found a body with a gunshot wound to the head but no one could confirm it was Hitler, from what I remember. Or maybe I was sleeping in history class and made that up, who knows. History buffs can help me out here :)
If I am right, then I think it would be interesting to confirm his death... Or prove that just maybe, that body wasn't his. That ought to piss off a lot of people (including me).
Speaking of celebrity deaths, I read an article last week that they're doing DNA testing in Texas on the remains of James Dalton, who some claim was Jesse James. . .
I wish I had a nickel for every time someone said "Information wants to be free".
These are my friends, See how they glisten. See this one shine, how he smiles in the light.
How the hell would a tumor have testable normal DNA? Tumors develop because of serious DNA mutation.
I wish I had a nickel for every time someone said "Information wants to be free".
These are my friends, See how they glisten. See this one shine, how he smiles in the light.
DAMN! 12 years of child-support payments for nothing!
I wish I had a nickel for every time someone said "Information wants to be free".
These are my friends, See how they glisten. See this one shine, how he smiles in the light.
I know that DNA tests were done on women in South America exhibiting the symptoms of the stigmata (spontaneous bleeding from the hands), and the blood WAS theirs, even though there was no evidence of a wound after the experience, and it was *not* menstrual blood. The conclusion was that somehow, either they had wounds that disappeared, or the blood came right through their skin.
I wish I had a nickel for every time someone said "Information wants to be free".
These are my friends, See how they glisten. See this one shine, how he smiles in the light.
Damn: I knew there was something strange about God's DNA-- it contains uracil!
After the battle of Austerlitz (?), Napoleon was commited to Elba in the Mediterranean. He managed to escape and go to Paris to scare all the crowned heads of Europe. They assembled and fought the final battle of Waterloo (listen to Abba's Eurovision hit for more references). Napoleon was captured and since Chiefs of State don't mistreat Chiefs of State too much (see Pinochet), they sent him to a mansion in the tropical and far-away island of St. Helena (sp?) int the middle of the Atlantic.
--
__
Men with no respect for life must never be allowed to control the ultimate instruments of death.
GW Bu
The image on the shroud is probably Jaques de Molay.
Could we use DNA evidence to get rid of Trolls/FirstPosters/NataliePortmanGrits messages from Slashdot?
See this to find out what really happened to JFK. You'll be shocked and proud of to be an American...I know I was.
I'm not a doctor, but I have heard of some malady where people "exude" blood. I believe it has to do with extreme stress.
Also, the man pictured on the shroud is roughly 6' 10", and the "back" image isn't the same length as the "front" image. At no point in the New Testament is Jesus' height ever mentioned, so it seems unlikely that he was remarkably tall... also, the man on the shroud has a head that does not proportionately match his body!
The Turin shroud was one of several 'burial shrouds' (and one of thousands of apparent relics) brought back to Europe during the Crusades. Most shrouds were quickly revealed as fakes; even the Turin Shroud, when first displayed c.1375, was widely held to be a badly-painted fake. The owners opted not to show the shroud for nearly a century, at which point it suddenly looked like it does today, leading many to believe it was 'swapped' with another shroud (origin unknown) sometime in the 15th century.
--Philip
"It's amazing how our industry is strewn with beautiful, dead technology and bitter engineers." --M. Huyck
Right. I can see the string of nucleotides now: A-T-G-C-G-Y-H-W-H-G-A-T-C-T-A...
--
In 20th America and Britain the cuckold father
rate has been about 10%. This has been known
since the days of blood transfusion and organ transplants. Doctors politely say "no match"
and don't go into detail.
The cuckold rate in other societies and times
could be higher, given human nature.
no text
Or even here at Barnes and Noble and Border's.
One huge mystery that is the subject of debate right now in the anthropological community is whether or not modern man and neanderthal is related. Presently, it is unknown whether or not we interbred with the neanderthal (which may explain their disappearance) or not. That might settle some debates that are raging. Sadly, it won't settle the age old debate of why the neanderthal died out (disease? outcompeted? killed by man?).
2. the bible has references in Genesis to people groups or tribes. can those groups be correlated with contemporary ethnic populations? such as was done with the black african jews that have the genetic marker associated with what the bible calls the Kohatites (sons of Aaron, or Levites).
3. are there similar genetic markers among other jews that could be traced back to other tribes, e.g. Judah. *Then* if the shroud stains are human blood, one could look for signs that it came from a descendent of Judah. If not, that would be strong evidence against the claims about the shroud of Turin.
4. using the fruit fly DNA, one could run simulations of micro-evolution and validate those simulations against all the experiments that have been done. Then, one could push the simulations forward to determine the mechanism for "punctuated equilibrium" that evolutionists claim to account for the gaps in the fossil record.
5. geneology records from the Mormon church & elsewhere could be checked for consistency with the genetics. unverified geneological hypotheses could be tested via DNA.
6. Determine the nationality of the "ice man" who came out of the alps. Also that of the caucasoid mummies found in central china.
7. Verification of Al Gore's claim that republicans have an extra chromosome.
I got an idea... Why don't we use this new found DNA technology to prove to the bible [t]humpers that humans evolved from ape-like animals... Whats that you say? We've done that already?
:P
--------------------------- Politics, Religion, and Sex... Which one do you practice most?
not only is the universe stranger than you imagine,
it's stranger than you are capable of imagining
not only is the universe stranger than you imagine,
it's stranger than you are capable of imagining
Who shot J.R.?
Where's the Beef?
Did Martha Washington have splinters on her ass?
Just what IS Chemical X?
Can you canoe?
Is there REALLY urine in Mountain Dew?
Who made-a the salad?
Was Paul really the walrus?
Who farted!?!
Is Goku REALLY a super-sayen?
Did Clinton inhale?
Did George W. snort?
Is Peekachoo a mutant smurf?
Are BigMacs really made of worms? Is KFC really vat-grown chicken flesh?
Just what IS a Scooby-snack?
And lastly of course, is Bill Gates REALLY an alien, and if so can we autopsy him for the discovery channel?
I saw on a science show where one of the leading DNA experts collected DNA from lots of Egyptian mummies, to explore (among other things) how much inbreeding the royal line really did. That was several years back and I never heard any results so I think it must have been inconclusive.
The Tzar is dead, confirmed by DNA testing. The other remains with him were his family, most of whom were identified. Anastasia is dead, although Maria was not identified. Not surprising, considering how well the bodies were destroyed.
DNA evidence has been used in criminal trial proceedings for years, perhaps most notoriously in the Simpson murder trial.
ok, who read this and was tring to remember which episode of the Simpsons used DNA evidence?
-- Virtual Windows Project
Except for the fact that there are well-dated parchments with images of the Shroud of Turin from before the Carbon-14 date. This calls into question that process with two possible explanations of the error. Either, the Shroud's fibers have acquired a layer of bacteria on their external surface. Just a thin layer of relatively recent bacteria would throw the age calculations off precipitously. Because the origin of the image was a scorch and the Shroud has been nearly burnt several times in it's known history, the amount of carbon has been refreshed several times. This would fudge the date by several centuries.
Keep in mind noone has done extensive C-14 dating on textiles of this age before. Very few actually survive as long as the Shroud has or apparantly has. The iron pigment is from the touching of sacred paintings to the surface of the cloth. A common method of blessing icons and other religous items. The amount supposedly recovered and examined was trivial.
So long and thanks for all the fish . . . !!!
How about trying to track down the descendants of the Anasazi people (Pueblo builders)? These ancient settlers of the American Southwest had an advanced culture and abandonded their cities very quickly (possibly due to drought.) Their name means 'ancient ones' implying that they are not direct progenitors of the current Native American population of the area. But this is a pretty hot topic.
So long and thanks for all the fish . . . !!!
How about locating the origins of the Ainu people (the original inhabitants of Japan) ? They appear almost Caucasian (at least to many Japanese) but they are really out of place for that. They now live mostly on Hokkaido in Japan.
So long and thanks for all the fish . . . !!!
Actually, the man in the image is 5'10" tall. While large for the time, hardly likely to have made him remarkable for his height. The back and front image don't match in height, they miss by less than an inch. The details are spatially consistent if you lie a body down on a flat cloth. Basically, the front of your body is bumpier than the back. The head problem you mention is consistent with the Jewish 'chinstrap' or 'toothache wrap'. This was common in other contemporary cultures: Confucius mentions his father wearing one (at his funeral.)
The Shroud is thought to have been brought back to Europe from Constantinople after the Fourth Crusade, c.1204. It was supposedly in the possesion of the Knights Templar. A descendant of one of their last officers is the first recorded owner of the Shroud. His widow did exhibit the Shroud quite frequently, much to the dismay of the local bishop who had less-spectacular relics to bring in pilgrims.
The Shroud has been displayed at pretty much a constant rate (a few times a century) and if anything is now less displayed than in the 14th century. Artists are no longer permitted private showings as was typical several centuries.
Incidently, unlike most of the other Shrouds, it is relatively easy to demonstrate thru both textile and pollen analysis that the Shroud of Turin was made, and exposed to air in the Middle East. Since it has never traveled there in it's recorded history, it must be about 50 years older than it's first showing. Thus pushing it's origins to the edges of it's supposed C-14 date.
So long and thanks for all the fish . . . !!!
what problem? Did he come back and say he was joking?
--
+&x
The heat from the firing would probably have destroyted any dna of whoever loaded the bullet.
this space for rent
What would God's genetic code look like? Let's dig up His Son and find out! It would also answer the question of whether Mary really did immaculately conceive, or whether it was Joseph all along. And if it WERE divine conception, we would finally have a chance to look at the Son of God's DNA. Would it glow? Adenine, thymine, cytosine, uracil, and THE-NUCLEOTIDE-WHOSE-NAME-CANNOT-BE-SPOKEN. This would definately be a chance for medical science to move forward. We might be able to heal lepers with a glance, raise the dead, love our neighbors unconditionally, etc. This would be a perfect follow-up to Dyson's Templeton Award, as well.
- Rev.From the article, it sounds like they're having the trial all over again, which, I realize, is [part of] the point. However, I thought they were basically testing to see if the DNA-based evidence could/couldn't convict Dr. Sheppard. Yet, the article said:
Gilbert used video footage from Sheppard's first trial in 1954 and slides to illustrate his points, while prosecutors used a computer-generated model to give a virtual representation of the path the doctor claimed to have taken the morning of the murder.
So, why don't they just cut to the DNA sequencing and focus on that, since if that is proven to be conclusive, they can just ignore the rest and go ahead and make the Dr. innocent. That way, they'll also know that if the DNA evidence proves he's guilty (or, is inconclusive) they can either end the trial there and say he's a bad man or they can continue with the rest of their evidence and fight it out that way. The way they seem to be conducting the trial, it appears as though they're just making a drawn-out scene of it all...
Insert mind here.
I've seen a lot of Television shows about the possibility that one of the members of the assassinated Russian royal family may have survived, and lived out her life elsewhere. Does anyone know where the person who claimed to be her is burued? Could they dig her up and see if she was really the Czar's daughter?
Tcl my Pico! There are 10 kinds of people in the world: Those who understand binary, and those who don't.
Well, now they can dig up the body, do some DNA testing, and find out.
George
I've heard that JWB got away from the Army and moved to Texas where he lived into the 20th century. He left some papers saying that he really was JWB and had been living under an assumed name the whole time.
Supposedly, the Army had a doctor sign a death certificate without letting him examine the body. The identification was done in twilight. There were some oversights like JWB had brown hair but the body had red hair, etc. The theory is that the Army felt they had to been seen as bringing Lincoln's assassin to justice one way or the other and without JWB alive, they needed a body and a plausible story.
Anyone know anything more about it?
We the Sheeple...
It was Maggie. (duh)
ROFL! I totally agree with you there. I am so totally unlike my family. I swear my real parents are out there somewhere ;-) and I was switched at birth...but dang, I look too much like my dad. Oh well. ;-)
"Is bill gates really related to the devil?"
:-)
Gerard "miztic" Saraber
I can't believe someone hasn't brought this up yet :-) There are many supposed Eucharistic Miracles in the Catholic faith. They have what they purport to be physical evidence of Transubstantiation (turning bread into body, wine into blood). One rather famous example of this is in Lanciano, Italy and happened in the 8th century. So why don't we DNA test these different examples and see if they at least match. Furthermore, if they do, why don't we just clone Jesus Christ :-)
Hmm. Last articles I saw (in the last month) said that it was looking like it could be real. ('nother words, their attempt to debunk it didn't succeed.)
Intolerant people should be shot.
There are two, that I can remember:
1. The followup to the "Who shot Mr. Burns?" season finale.
2. The episode where Lisa finds an angel on a construction site during a school archeological dig. Although, technically the scientist admits he never performed the tests, even though he said it was inconclusive.
This has already been done. Actually, a scientist examined a piece of the shroud with a high-magnification microscope, and found that the stains on the shroud were actually red pigment, and not blood. His investigation was (after 10 years, I think) finally reaffirmed by studies performed in different labs.
Well, it's been known for years the legend that princess Anastasia of Russia survived the slaughter of her family in 1916.
Yes, but DNA evidence has already been used to prove that the woman who surfaced in the 1920's claiming to be Anastasia was *not* the princess, but rather a Polish peasant look-alike, being "marketed" to the public by some rather unsavory types. However, when the Romanoff mass grave was discovered a few years back, all of the bodies of the family were found *execept* for one of the sisters, determined later to be either Anastatia or her close-in-age sister (Marie, I think?). So there probably was a basis to the rumor that Anastasia survived, but DNA hasn't found a match, yet.
- Asparagirl
- Asparagirl
asparagirl at dca dot net
Other new science techniques are helping out too. A few years ago, somebody analyzed a lock of Napolean's hair. They found that Napolean had been slowly poisoned, as there doses of arsenic preserved in the hair.
I do know that the remains of soldier in the tomb of the unknown soldier that fought in the Vietnam War was identified about 2 years ago by DNA testing.
Here is the website:
http://npcc.net/~opert/070598.html
- "Yeah man, I tell ya what, man...That dang ol' Internet, man...You just go one there and point and click...Talk about
Tudor Parfitt researched an African tribe called the Lemba, who claimed to be of Jewish decent. As well as the anthropological evidence, DNA was used to link the Lemba with Jews, specifically the Cohen modal haplotype. (Cohanim being the Jewish priests.)
So I'm thinking DNA could also tell us who Kennewick Man is, and trace the history of American indians. Where in Asia did they come from? Were there any migrations from Europe? And are they related to the Ainu?
Any sufficiently advanced civilization is indistinguishable from Gods.
Just on General Principal...
I believe the shroud of turin has been debunked using other technologies involving the dating of materials.
Unbreakable toys can be used to break other toys.
That's break or mutation. Not all tumors are caused by the "lack" of a given gene, rather they can result from a few base pairs being mixed up.
Incidentally in Nancy Kress' "Beggars and Choosers" (dealing with human genemod and nanotech scifi) a group develops a nanobot that basically just compares dna vs other dna (and RNA) and kills any cells that don't match the template. Basically wipes out all illness.
Unbreakable toys can be used to break other toys.
Can I temporarily alter my DNA by eating SPAM?
I would suggest that it is more like finding someone who was born on the same hour of the same day as you.(that's 1 chance in 8766, much higher then DNA testing).
You, however, sound like you wouldn't be convinced unless the exact second was able to be reproduced.
The supposed last survivor of the Czars family, who escaped Russia after the revolution. She made quite a nice living out of the story for a while, now we can find out if she was the real thing or not.
Quidquid Latine dictum sit, altum videtur (anything said in Latin sounds important)
The chicken or the egg?
- real hackers don't have sigs -
Once we have JC DNA and start the cloning process, will we have the same problems the Robotech Masters did when they tried to clone Zor?
Not now I am afraid: :-)
kocour:~$ host -t soul microsoft.com
Invalid query type soul
I guess somebody must update bind-utils..
Who cares?
Hmm, interesting... reminds me of the movie The Iron Mask, which (I think) exploits this mystery storyline... It'd be interesting to know what really happened. But of course, I could just be pulling this totally out of the blue since I don't remember if it was actually this prince that the Iron Mask is based on! :-)
mikre he sophia he tou Mikrosophou.
It was Maggie, you fool.
Personally...I'd like to find out whether Michael Jackson is black or white.
Netjak.com independent reviews of domestic & import video ga
in Mrs. Murphy's chowder?
Well, it's been known for years the legend that princess Anastasia of Russia survived the slaughter of her family in 1916. I am not very sure, but I don't think it's been proven that there aren't any survivors of the Russian royal family ... ... Or...
... If they're dead, let them rest in peace - it would only be a proof of respect.
Imagine how milions of fans of Elvis would react at the news that their idol is not dead
Or even Jim Morrison
Or perhaps it's better to leave things as they are
DNA shows the existance of a soul?
Please explain!
Nate Custer
"The poet presents his thoughts festively, on the carriage of rhythm; usually because they could not walk" Nietzsche
>Let's get a few facts straight here: There are >over a hundred billion DNA/RNA pairs in a typical >human's genotype. A given sample is taken at the >phentypic level, and will contain at most a >single billion. So you've lost 99% of your sample >right there.
Each cell in your body contains the SAME DNA (what do you mean by phenotypic level?); that's the cool thing about it, different cells express different genes though. Sample condition can definately alter the reliability of the results, but in most cases if you have a cell, you have the DNA from who/what it was taken from; you can't only wind up with 1% of a DNA strand from the collection of a sample (DNA comes generally more or less intact, or degraded beyond practical use)..but even that little could be useful in determining a lot of things.
>Then, you have to hope that the genetic material >in your sample will be genuine genes and not >"junk DNA" -- the biological equivalent of line >noise.
Very misleading comment. Although we know it doesn't express protiens, "junk" DNA is still conserved (it isn't just random noise from individual to individual), that is two humans have very similar patterns of junk DNA (as similar as their non-junk DNA). It probably does have a use, we just don't know what yet.
There have been a few embarassments in the reliability of these tests, however they can elminate indiviuals as suspects (if there is a low probabilty of match of from a sperm sample in a rape for example), and are very good at paternity determination to the level of the individual, so it really does work for a lot of things. Just type in DNA testing at google and you can find a lot of links of real applications.
replace DNS with DNA :P
its early
Call them what you will but when I refer to the Celts i do not restrict myself to an Irish nationalistic view as dreamed up by those of the 18th century but a more embracing view that recognises that Celtic populations include Basques, Bretons, Cornishmen as well as some Moroccan tribes
Now the remains of the Celtic populations are on the fringes of Western Europe and firm DNA evidence (published in Nature recently) seems to establish that the Irish and the Basques are the true Celtic gene pool and may be the oldest historical european racial group.
See this article in The Irish Times
Historic and prehistoric population migrations can also be traced through gallstone susceptibility of all things!
signed a celt!
In light of todays DMCA post, I think it would be really cool if they incorporated DNA into copy protection. It'll shut the corporations up because only the purchaser can use it, and you can make as many copies as you wan't cause they'll all contain your DNA.
Now to the topic at hand. I think the coolest thing about all this DNA stuff is that in NY we had a warrent out for the arrest of someone's DNA (and it's owner of course). The DNA was charged with rape. This was done in order to bypass the statute of limitations on rape cases in NY. I think that we should all submit to mass DNA tests so that there is a large database for use during criminal investigations. How many innocent people would have been freed and how many more guilty ones would have been fried?
Why is it that people always hear what I say, and not what I mean?
More than one person was hanged in England for being the notorious Jack the Ripper, but no one knows for sure if they ever got the person who did the crimes. (Insert favourite conspiracy theory here.) I wonder if there's any DNA floating around from that time to prove anything now?
I haven't lost my mind; it's backed up on a CD-R somewhere
The Fugitive was a long running and excellent TV series before it was ever a film. The film was based on the series.
DN[A|S]? Was that a typo?
Long signatures suck.
Hemos is my father.
He denies it.
Maybe DNA can solve THIS once and for all.
Wow, mine just has a bunch of numbers....
"See, we plan ahead! That way, we never have to do anything now."
Maybe we could find out once and for all if Jocasta was really Oedipus' mom... If not, that would really mess up the Oedipus complex theory...
Is Bill Gates human?
I'd rather know who CSM is... - Al -
How about the shroud of Turin and random samples of the population? This might settle the theological debate on whether Mary had any children after Jesus.
You are more than the sum of what you consume.
Desire is not an occupation.
There's one unsolved crime that has puzzled historians for far too long....plus solving it would once and for all stop all those conspirancy theories spiralling out of control
DNA testing may help, but if you're talking crimes that far back unless someone has at least some firm idea of who really committed the crime will DNA testing really help ?
In MacBeth, Shakespeare conjected, in the form of the witches prophecy, that Banquo (a Scotsman) would begin the lineage that would eventually lead to King James of England. Most people think that the Bard just made that up to appease the king, but DNA might serve to prove exactly how much King James I had of the Scottish royal lineage in him.
Can what is formed say to that who formed it, "Why have you made me thus?"
Which came first, the chicken or the egg?
How many licks does it take to get to the tootsie-roll center of a tootsie-pop?
What was in the briefcase in Pulp Fiction?
And, most importantly, a) Is Darth really Luke's dad, b) Is Leia really Luke's siter, and c) is Darth really Anakin?!?!?
Dear Slashdot: next time you want to mess with the site, add a rich-text editor for comments.
As I recall, there was a man who turned up to turn himself in in the 40's or so, claiming to be William H. Bonnie. I wonder if they'll get around to testing that one.....
:::The Spear in the heart of the Other is the Spear in the heart of You; You are He - Surak of Vulcan:::
# nsloookup
Default Server: localhost
Address: 127.0.0.1
> set type=ANY
> machine.domaind.tld
Is the general way to test the DNS for a particular type of record.
If you don't find any soul records, you might have better luck looking in Motown than the DNS.
--
Do daemons dream of electric sleep()?
The complete text of this question & answer can be found here
--
Do daemons dream of electric sleep()?
Even after his death there were oddities - it's never been established whether the body in the coffin is actually his. Presumably a good DNA analysis would clear up at least that mystery.
I've seen Michael and Janet together... I think he's really Diana Ross.
Are Micheal Jackson and Jannet Jackson one and the same? This could settle the arguement.
I think you underestimate just how much I just dont care.
His body is, uh, missing.
:-)
I dunno about you, but when I was growing up, I was convinced that there was no way in hell I could be related to anyone in my family. They were just too friggin' wierd. Supposedly, many kids felt the same way. Maybe we should use DNA testing to get them to accept their roots earlier and move on to more important tasks, like asking their true parents for money.
Not exactly 'historic' as this is fairly recent, but...
I for one would like to see resolution to the West Memphis 3 murder case. The three that were convicted, for more reasons than I care to go into here, didn't receive anything even close to resembling justice. Police needed a scapegoat, victims' parents needed closure (or an alibi), and an ass-backwards community needed blood.
DNA testing could have answered the questions once and for all, but some inept or corrupt cops 'forgot' to collect evidence.
http://www.wm3.org
- Jeff A. Campbell
- VelociNews (http://www.velocinews.com)
- Jeff
(well, Bill Mahr thought it was funny)
I see even classic Slashdot is now pretty much unusable on dial up anymore.
From my understanding of DNA testing, an isolated segment is tested. This segment is thought to be unique for each individual in the world. As much as I would like to beleive this, I have to think that DNA will never be used effectivly to convict people. Effectivly the tests only examine less than 1% of a full strand of DNA. At this time, I can't say that I could convict someone because two extremely small peices of DNA happen to appear identical. The odds are good, IMO, that this pattern repeat is possible in two people.
Now obviously if DNA tests reveal a signifigant difference, I beleive it can be used to rule out suspects in any investigation.
And just as a reminder, I'm not a scientist, and I don't know much about the DNA testing process so if someone does and can fill me in, I would appreciate it.
Bad Mojo
Bad Mojo
"If you can't win by reason, go for volume." -- Calvin
They can finally figure out who Anonymous Coward is...
_______
2B1ASK1
As someone famous once said, "Let it go cause man, they're gone." I think it was Stuart Smalley referring to keys lost in a river of molten lava.
Stuart Smalley did Daily Affirmations. Jack Handy did Deep Thoughts, which that is one of.
Trees can't go dancing
So do them a big favor
Pretend dancing stinks!
The main problem is that universalist religions like Christianity, Buddhism, Islam, Marxism and Political Correctness have suppressed ancient genetic social identities and replaced them with ideological social identities. This is an unstable situation. People have spent a very long time adapting to tribal groups at a genetic level. In modern civilization, however, tribal instincts are accomodated only when one's own tribal group is in power over one of the social identity of other groups -- meaning all but a tiny minority of people these days are living in a state of perpetual tribal repression.
Most of this repression depends on heavy investments in the maintanence of myths. When scientific data on past human gene flows start popping through the "bunk" that is "history", some tribal groups -- particularly those in power -- might decide it is time to press the "reset button" on the whole situation.
Seastead this.
There was an expedition down to bolivia a few year back to try to determine the final resting place of Butch Cassidy (He was supposed to have died in a shootout with the army and there is a grave in a remote village.)
There were also a series of experiments conducted on locks of hair, said to belong to Napoleon, to determine whether he died of arsenic poisoning on Elba.
Finally, I believe there is an ongoing effort to extract DNA from the Shroud of Turin.
Is there a way to test DNS for the presense of a soul? If so I can think of a certain Redmond, WA resident I would like to see tested.
And a few people in Washington, D.C. for that matter.
I have been told that the situation is a little different in the US, where DNA fingerprinting was adopted in the crime labs much earlier. A set of sites to cut the DNA has been chosen and the lengths of the fragments produced are used. This method has been critisized for not being understood well enough. This may have changed since I heard about it though. Anyone with details?
The exclusion capacity of DNA fingerprinting is something like 99.999%. That is, the probability of two people sharing the same pattern is 1 in a 100000. This means that if you can reduce the number of people that could have been involved in the crime significantly, then you can quite confidently convict someone. However, the strength of DNA fingerprinting is of course exclude people from an investigation.
Lars
__
Reality or nothing.
Why not test the old theory that Jimmy Hoffa was buried under the pile of makeup called Tammy Bakker?
Trust the Computer. The Computer is your friend.
Given that even the slightest physical contact will leave DNA, howzabout examining JFK's magic bullet? Obviously you'd have to discount all the CIA DNA because they investigated the cubans and would probably have to handle the bullet. Oh, and the FBI probably examined it too. The mafia probably sold the bullet to Oswa^Hthe killer, so all that mafia dna would have to be thrown out as well. And if the CIA were talking to the cubans, then Castro's DNA could be eliminated as well.
All that superfluous DNA would probably mask Oswald's, so his probably wouldn't appear on the bullet. But as we've eliminated everyone else, it must have been him.
(The above post is meant as a _joke_, not meant to offend anyone)
~=Keelor
You know, this idea of the celebrity death that didn't really happen isn't a new one. Sure, we have examples of Elvis or Jim Morrison or even Anastasia. But the practice goes back much much further. The Emperor Nero, who some have called one of the most hated emperors of ancient Rome, had a notable cult following after his death and there were many 'false Neros' in the fifty or so years after his (supposed) death. Jesus Christ's resurrection is assumed by many scholars to be a manifestation of this tendency for humans to not accept the death of people they deem important (coupled with a grave-robbing, a practice which was prevalent at the time, prevalent enough that they emperor issued a decree outlawing it). The reasons why people assume that such people aren't dead is unclear, but most of the times, it's just disbelief that the person could be dead. Look at our own Propaganda. JFK is alive and well and leading the charge against Redmond, fighting for the democratic ideals he must have died for (nevermind that he got us into Vietnam, supported the whole Bay of Pigs fiasco, and manipulated government to his own personal whims).
Should we disprove these ideas? I say no. Elvis fans happen to like thinking that Elvis is alive. It gives them comfort and solace which the real world can't give them. Some people will never accept the truth, and trying to rub it in their face will only exacerbate the problem.
As someone famous once said, "Let it go cause man, they're gone." I think it was Stuart Smalley referring to keys lost in a river of molten lava.
PING soul.bill.microsoft.com
waiting...
waiting...
waiting...
Connection timed out.
Pope
It doesn't mean much now, it's built for the future.