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Wow its actually been a bit since I seen somebody go straight to the memes, thx.

Uhhhh...you DID notice I singled out Linux and NOT BSD, right? I did this because as you pointed out BSD works differently, but so little is paid to BSD on the desktop its simply not worth mentioning in that space. Great for servers and firewalls though. This is also why I separate a FOSSie from a FOSS advocate, with many BSDers being the latter and many Linux users the former. The FOSS advocate can see there are places FOSS works well and places it doesn't and they aren't afraid of admitting the flaws in the ecosystem, a FOSSie will stick their fingers in their ears and scream shills,trolls,vampires while accusing you of being or working for Voldemort.

And notice how I got modbombed for pointing out what should be common fucking sense? HUMANS ARE CREATIVE ANIMALS, full stop. Getting a person to create something NEW for free? Easy. getting them to spend their time fixing somebody else's bugs? Not happening. This frankly shouldn't have to be explained but since FOSSies still believe in communist utopias (look at how RMS squeed like a schoolgirl and gushed over Chavez and Castro) they refuse to accept the busted shitter....but as a wise Linux server admin I know said as he went out to buy a Macbook after getting his laptop shit on one too many times by poorly written patches "Linux doesn't get better it just gets different" and this is why Linux stability is still worse than Win2K on the desktop, why SOP for a Linux server is to strip out every package possible, because the second things start getting stable, where it looks like they'll have to spend their time on QC and bug fixing? KDE 4, Gnome 3, Pulse, Unity, systemd, a major subsystem will get ripped out and send Linux back a decade.

Meanwhile I can take a copy of Win2K and take it from RTM to final patch without a single driver failure, same with XP,Vista, Win 7, is it magic? A conspiracy? Nope its the simple fact that MSFT doesn't rip out critical subsystems willy nilly or fuck up driver interfaces because a dev got bored. Just look at what has happened since the release of Win 7...KDE 4, Gnome 3, Pulse, Unity, systemd...that means a person using Linux for the same period that Win 7 has been used will have had no less than 3 major subsystems and their DE drop to alpha quality and why is that? The busted shitter. Its simply easier to get devs to make something new than fix what they have, its simply human nature and anyone who thinks different is fucking delusional.

Uhhhh...you DID notice I singled out Linux and NOT BSD, right? I did this because as you pointed out BSD works differently, but so little is paid to BSD on the desktop its simply not worth mentioning in that space. Great for servers and firewalls though. This is also why I separate a FOSSie from a FOSS advocate, with many BSDers being the latter and many Linux users the former. The FOSS advocate can see there are places FOSS works well and places it doesn't and they aren't afraid of admitting the flaws in the ecosystem, a FOSSie will stick their fingers in their ears and scream shills,trolls,vampires while accusing you of being or working for Voldemort.

And notice how I got modbombed for pointing out what should be common fucking sense? HUMANS ARE CREATIVE ANIMALS, full stop. Getting a person to create something NEW for free? Easy. getting them to spend their time fixing somebody else's bugs? Not happening. This frankly shouldn't have to be explained but since FOSSies still believe in communist utopias (look at how RMS squeed like a schoolgirl and gushed over Chavez and Castro) they refuse to accept the busted shitter....but as a wise Linux server admin I know said as he went out to buy a Macbook after getting his laptop shit on one too many times by poorly written patches "Linux doesn't get better it just gets different" and this is why Linux stability is still worse than Win2K on the desktop, why SOP for a Linux server is to strip out every package possible, because the second things start getting stable, where it looks like they'll have to spend their time on QC and bug fixing? KDE 4, Gnome 3, Pulse, Unity, systemd, a major subsystem will get ripped out and send Linux back a decade.

Meanwhile I can take a copy of Win2K and take it from RTM to final patch without a single driver failure, same with XP,Vista, Win 7, is it magic? A conspiracy? Nope its the simple fact that MSFT doesn't rip out critical subsystems willy nilly or fuck up driver interfaces because a dev got bored. Just look at what has happened since the release of Win 7...KDE 4, Gnome 3, Pulse, Unity, systemd...that means a person using Linux for the same period that Win 7 has been used will have had no less than 3 major subsystems and their DE drop to alpha quality and why is that? The busted shitter. Its simply easier to get devs to make something new than fix what they have, its simply human nature and anyone who thinks different is fucking delusional.

Uhhh...and the benefit to MSFT would be....what exactly? they have NTFS which works extremely well for their OS and for portables there is ExFAT which again works extremely well, so why would they care to open NTFS when there is no need?

Its not like the FOSSies would ever use anything made by MSFT anyway, hell many Linux advocates like Robert Pogson are so batshit against MSFT they have Voldemort when it comes to the company, they sure as hell isn't gonna use anything made by Redmond, they'd treat it like plague blankets.

Interesting? Just for stringing together memes? Well lets break down his meme spewing shall we? We have living in the past, a very old classic and fav of Pogson, we have the ever popular works for me, and of course blaming the user which brings up its free so you can't complain. Oh and I fucking LMAO that the VERY FIRST POST was the ever hilarious battle cry of the FOSSie masses, the ever popular why do you hate free software, because if you don't slurp every drop of koolaid, including that shoved by an employee of the company trying to jam an SVCHOSTS into Linux for its own gain why you MUST be part of an organized attack on FOSS...ROFLcopter the amount of crazy is just too much LOL!

Interesting? Just for stringing together memes? Well lets break down his meme spewing shall we? We have living in the past, a very old classic and fav of Pogson, we have the ever popular works for me, and of course blaming the user which brings up its free so you can't complain. Oh and I fucking LMAO that the VERY FIRST POST was the ever hilarious battle cry of the FOSSie masses, the ever popular why do you hate free software, because if you don't slurp every drop of koolaid, including that shoved by an employee of the company trying to jam an SVCHOSTS into Linux for its own gain why you MUST be part of an organized attack on FOSS...ROFLcopter the amount of crazy is just too much LOL!

Interesting? Just for stringing together memes? Well lets break down his meme spewing shall we? We have living in the past, a very old classic and fav of Pogson, we have the ever popular works for me, and of course blaming the user which brings up its free so you can't complain. Oh and I fucking LMAO that the VERY FIRST POST was the ever hilarious battle cry of the FOSSie masses, the ever popular why do you hate free software, because if you don't slurp every drop of koolaid, including that shoved by an employee of the company trying to jam an SVCHOSTS into Linux for its own gain why you MUST be part of an organized attack on FOSS...ROFLcopter the amount of crazy is just too much LOL!

Interesting? Just for stringing together memes? Well lets break down his meme spewing shall we? We have living in the past, a very old classic and fav of Pogson, we have the ever popular works for me, and of course blaming the user which brings up its free so you can't complain. Oh and I fucking LMAO that the VERY FIRST POST was the ever hilarious battle cry of the FOSSie masses, the ever popular why do you hate free software, because if you don't slurp every drop of koolaid, including that shoved by an employee of the company trying to jam an SVCHOSTS into Linux for its own gain why you MUST be part of an organized attack on FOSS...ROFLcopter the amount of crazy is just too much LOL!

VXDs were .INI based, a hell of a lot like DOS "bare metal" drivers while WDM had a much more sane isolation driver model, in fact last I checked you could run XP WDM drivers on Win 7...try THAT with Linux and see how far you get! But trying to have bare metal drivers AND isolated drivers while dealing with the 16bit GDI memory state just overloaded the OS which eventually would cause a crash thanks to lack of memory for the desktop subsystem. Most folks don't know that all Win9X had a fatal GDI flaw where the GDI would run out of memory, no matter how much you had, because crucial parts of its subsystem were 16bit leftovers and THAT is what killed WinME, trying to fit two completely different driver models into a 16bit limited memory manager was...it was just too much.

As far as Linux? Give it up, because as Linus has a pulse it will NEVER get any better. I mean we'd laugh if Windows still ran with VXD drivers, right? Well Linus' driver model is sooooo old that VXD would be a step up! The simple fact is the "let the kernel devs handle it" worked back when ALL of Linux AND the drivers could fit on a floppy but when you have over 100,000 drivers AND new drivers in the thousands released every quarter AND major parts from the kernel on up in flux? Its easy enough to do basic math and see it doesn't stand a chance of being stable. This is why the "Hairyfeet Challenge" has stood for 8 years now, because Linux just can't update itself without the house of cards that is the drivers falls apart.

And the hilarious part? They claim you are an "anti FOSS shill" for daring to ask for functional drivers, and the best part is its NOT FOSS, as BSD? Has functional drivers, they simply are focused on servers so they don't have drivers for consumer hardware! But NO OTHER OS uses Linus's shit model, not BSD, not OSX, hell even OS fucking 2 has a more functional driver model than Linux!

Mark my words Windows 9 is gonna make Linux look like the POS that it is and gonna slaughter Linux on the desktop...I mean a Windows that is nearly 40% FASTER than Win 7 AND its gonna be less than $40 a pop, possibly even free? And you are right about hardware, I can slap Win 7 on a late model P4 with an IGP and GB of RAM and its fine, that exact same system on the supposedly "lightweight" Linux just crawls unless you use a Win98 looking DE like Blackbox. But you spend any time with Linux and you find out a good 90%+ of their claims? Total bullshit, classic circle of loon. As I go to sleep I'll be having my hexacore process a half a dozen videos AND convert a video to DVD and meanwhile just basic things that Windows has had since 2006 like hardware acceleration? Doesn't work, in fact just basic multitasking is a crapshoot so yeah, don't bother its not worth it.

I've never seen a more blatant example of You Don't Need That in my life.

That is because that bullshit excuse is soooo damned old it has its own meme .

It doesn't matter as a core of the OS is being decided by POLITICS, oh and FYI but that PC World article? Its bullshit, its changed a grand total of TWICE in 20 years, from VXD to WDM, from WDM to DF, and you can still use WDM even on Windows 8. I have used XP drivers in Windows 7, that is 14 years of driver support, show me a video of you using a 7 year old driver without playing the make and break game and we'll talk.

If the core of your OS is decided not on its merits but by politics? Then your OS is doomed to become a punchline. BTW the zealots have been making the same excuses for so long that you can break down more than 90% of posts on any Linux article into just the same TMRepo memes, why? Because like Dems and Reps all that matters now is the politics, NOT the OS.

It doesn't matter as a core of the OS is being decided by POLITICS, oh and FYI but that PC World article? Its bullshit, its changed a grand total of TWICE in 20 years, from VXD to WDM, from WDM to DF, and you can still use WDM even on Windows 8. I have used XP drivers in Windows 7, that is 14 years of driver support, show me a video of you using a 7 year old driver without playing the make and break game and we'll talk.

If the core of your OS is decided not on its merits but by politics? Then your OS is doomed to become a punchline. BTW the zealots have been making the same excuses for so long that you can break down more than 90% of posts on any Linux article into just the same TMRepo memes, why? Because like Dems and Reps all that matters now is the politics, NOT the OS.

Imaginary problems kill Windows...ahh a classic, haven't gotten that one in a few years, thanks. And if you think MY customers won't call if they get a BSOD? BWA HA HA HA HA HA..damn, thanks again friend! Hell I am the only guy in the county that does house calls...do you have ANY idea how in demand that makes me? If they have ANY problem, anything at all, they can pick up the phone and have me fix it on the spot. Believe me if they were seeing BSODs? My dance card would be full!

the other poster says its HP crap...wow, color me surprised, ever since they bought ComPuke their quality has gone to shit, its the same with Seagate buying Maxtor. This is why I sell Asus lappys and build my own desktops, because I don't have a bit of problem with buying/building quality but you go with them $299 HP specials? yeah...good luck with that.

Right. What would you consider a "non faulty OS, Linux? Then I guess Torvalds should be shot because when it comes to bugs here they come! . Oh and don't forget which OS it was that gave us heartbleed. Was it Windows? No no no no, was it OSX? No no nooo no, was it Linux? yeah yeah yeah yeah! BTW you should try to play the "how many year old Linux bug" game, its fun and easy! Simply type into any search engine " (X) year old Linux bug" with (X) replaced by a random number, see how far back you can go! I doubt you will be able to top 20 years old but single digits are easy peasy!

Anybody still on XP deserves what they get, they got 12 years of support, which just FYI is 10 years longer than the average Linux distro LOL, unless you consider the bi annual death march to be "support", and they have had more than enough time to switch over to a newer version of Windows. They can't even use the hardware excuse as the average XP box is a power piggie P4 and for less than $100 you can toss that P4 board for a Bobcat or jaguar board that will run rings around the P4 while using less power under load than the piggie P4 does at idle. they can even keep their old IDE drive using a $7 IDE to PCI converter so there really is no longer any excuses, anybody who hangs onto a thirteen year old OS (XP was released in 2001 and has more in common with NT4 than it does with a modern OS like 7/8) that is three and soon to be four versions behind? Deserves what they get.

Out of the hundreds of boxes I moved to 7, how many problems did I have? A grand total of THREE, and one of those doesn't count since the software in question (Quickbooks 07 IIRC, may have been 06) was "broken by design" and tied to a VERY insercure version of Flash (V7) and would refuse to install if ANY version of Flash other than 7 was on the system, but it took less than 30 minutes to turn the XP install into a VM and run it on Win 7 via Virtualbox. The other 2? A scanner from 2000 that was so low res a $35 all in one printer gave the guy a 300%+ increase in quality and an old ATI IGP that ran but was flaky, it cost a grand total of $8 to replace the IGP with an HD2400. That system was a first gen C2D with 2GB of RAM and was recently traded back in on a new quad, I turned around and sold it to my landlord who runs it 6 days a week and it purrs like a kitten. If a 8 year old system can run Win 7 so well the customer who buys it in 2014 says "I just love this machine,it runs my stock software and surfs like a dream" there really is no excuse, let XP die already.

Oh and just for shits and giggles I tried the "hairyfeet challenge" using that box before I reloaded Windows, since it would probably be considered high end of the XP era hardware and thus would give Linux a performance advantage over some dusty P4, result? Ubuntu crapped the video first update, PCLOS crapped out on the second, no point in continuing after that since it had already failed the test.

Ah yes, the "YouDontNeedThat" response:

http://www.tmrepository.com/tr...

It doesn't matter what you think he should be doing instead - if MS Office allows him to accomplish things using a particular workflow and LO requires change for no obvious benefit, then MS Office is superior.

It's absolutely essential for people to realize that good software bends to the user, not the other way around. Proprietary developers seems to know this better than open source ones apparently.

"Mediadefender doesn't count because the users install it"...sound familiar? if you go by THAT metric guess what? Windows is bug free! Yay, there are no malware infected systems, hey security guys, your all out of a job LOL!

Hate to break the news to ya friend but guess how the vast majority of malware spreads? PEBKAC and this proves that Linux is JUST AS VULNERABLE as any other OS. And can you show me ONE zero day that was caught and fixed by a user and NOT a corporation? Just one? You can't because you are falling for the many eyes fallacy that states because something COULD happen it HAS happened. You and others think because the code COULD be audited it HAS been audited with ZERO proof to back it up. Well by that logic since there COULD be zombies there ARE zombies...but I don't think i need to start carrying a shotgun to kill the undead, do you?

Since you seem like a normal person and not a FOSSie, which are like a Moonie only with FOSS as their religion you might want to read this which quickly and concisely explains why its a lie better than I ever could. Oh and just FYI you want to see a FOSSie go absolutely apeshit? Give him a TMRepo link. Of course just as a flat earther hates science so too does a FOSSie hate TMRepo because it has reduced their tired old talking points into cliches. I could take every pro Linux rant here and reduce it to 5 TMs or less, know why? Because its the SAME TIRED SHIT, for 20 fricking years they have been using the same tired ass excuses, "works for me(TM)" "Linux has more drivers(TM)" "Stable ABI nonsense(TM)" its the same shit.

But many eyes is just a variant of the man month. It doesn't work, isn't ever gonna work, and frankly just because you have the source for a low level subsystem doesn't magically give you the knowledge and experience required to repair that system. it would be like saying if I gave you the blueprints you could fab some O-Rings for the shuttle, not happening.

Lets see..help me out here, would that be a case of moving the goal post or you don't need the last version or maybe its just the circle of loon?

If you wanna know how badly in denial the FOSSies are about the current state of Linux just think about this....I could answer EVERY REPLY HERE using ONLY cliches from TMRepo, know why that is? Because its the same bullshit excuses that FOSSies have been using for the past 20 years! "Oh its all marketing" "Oh Linux is ready for the desktop" "Oh its a conspiracy"....know what excuses and assholes have in common, yes? As a retailer and system builder MSFT treats me like shit yet I will happily pay full retail price rather than take your product for free....why? Because its shit, the drivers suck, updates crap all over the system, and within the typical 5 year life cycle of a system you'll spend more time on forum hunts and "open up Bash and type" than any other system BAR NONE.

As long as Torvalds has a pulse things just won't get any better as he refuses to let go of his POS driver model that he came up with in the early 90s. If Windows would have stuck with VXD you'd have laughed, right? Well the Linux driver model is even older and shittier. I'll say of him what RMS said of Jobs I won't be glad when he'd dead but I'll be glad when he's gone and until then Linux will be nothing but a TMRepo joke.

Lets see..help me out here, would that be a case of moving the goal post or you don't need the last version or maybe its just the circle of loon?

If you wanna know how badly in denial the FOSSies are about the current state of Linux just think about this....I could answer EVERY REPLY HERE using ONLY cliches from TMRepo, know why that is? Because its the same bullshit excuses that FOSSies have been using for the past 20 years! "Oh its all marketing" "Oh Linux is ready for the desktop" "Oh its a conspiracy"....know what excuses and assholes have in common, yes? As a retailer and system builder MSFT treats me like shit yet I will happily pay full retail price rather than take your product for free....why? Because its shit, the drivers suck, updates crap all over the system, and within the typical 5 year life cycle of a system you'll spend more time on forum hunts and "open up Bash and type" than any other system BAR NONE.

As long as Torvalds has a pulse things just won't get any better as he refuses to let go of his POS driver model that he came up with in the early 90s. If Windows would have stuck with VXD you'd have laughed, right? Well the Linux driver model is even older and shittier. I'll say of him what RMS said of Jobs I won't be glad when he'd dead but I'll be glad when he's gone and until then Linux will be nothing but a TMRepo joke.

Lets see..help me out here, would that be a case of moving the goal post or you don't need the last version or maybe its just the circle of loon?

If you wanna know how badly in denial the FOSSies are about the current state of Linux just think about this....I could answer EVERY REPLY HERE using ONLY cliches from TMRepo, know why that is? Because its the same bullshit excuses that FOSSies have been using for the past 20 years! "Oh its all marketing" "Oh Linux is ready for the desktop" "Oh its a conspiracy"....know what excuses and assholes have in common, yes? As a retailer and system builder MSFT treats me like shit yet I will happily pay full retail price rather than take your product for free....why? Because its shit, the drivers suck, updates crap all over the system, and within the typical 5 year life cycle of a system you'll spend more time on forum hunts and "open up Bash and type" than any other system BAR NONE.

As long as Torvalds has a pulse things just won't get any better as he refuses to let go of his POS driver model that he came up with in the early 90s. If Windows would have stuck with VXD you'd have laughed, right? Well the Linux driver model is even older and shittier. I'll say of him what RMS said of Jobs I won't be glad when he'd dead but I'll be glad when he's gone and until then Linux will be nothing but a TMRepo joke.

Really? Then you better not tells the guys at VLite who have been doing it since Win2K (formerly NLite for NT) or the guys at RT7Lite who have made a tool so simple your grandma can use it. Oh and FYI but you have been able to uninstall IE since XP SP2, its under Windows Components in Add/Remove on XP or Programs and Features on Vista on up.

So maybe you ought to actually try something before you go spreading FUD since its obvious you probably have touched a Windows machine since WinME considering how badly out of data your supposed info is. Oh and in case you are wondering Yes Virginia you CAN change Windows Shells, there are about a dozen free ones to choose from but I prefer AstonShell for their secure desktop which is light and easy peasy to lock down with GPOs.

So I'm sorry but the ONLY thing Linux has going for it is "free as in beer" and that is if and ONLY if your time is worthless, otherwise you get the "fun" of breaking updates or the "interesting challenge" of Black Screens Of Death thanks to Linux hanging onto a 40 year old client/server paradigm that hasn't been relevant for the vast majority in over 25 years. I'm sorry but there is no comparison, I can place Windows and OSX in the "Hairyfeet Challenge" and they'll both come out with flying colors, Linux will have at least one if not several drivers crapped on and wasted thanks to updates not caring about drivers. Don't say "If they were only in the kernel" because that is bullshit the kernel drivers are ONLY decent on relatively new and relatively popular devices, the rest are half baked and poorly maintained.

Now I could set down and show you mathematically why Linus' "Let the kernel devs do it" can never work in a billion years but since you are just gonna call me dirty names anyway why bother? I'm sure any response i get will just be the circular logic Linux fans love which is why I have all Linux articles blocked. isn't it funny how we give the FOSSies their own section yet that isn't good enough, they HAVE to come preach their religion in articles that have nothing to do with them? I think the fact that more people are willing to risk thousands in fines and even jail time to steal the other guy's OS rather than take yours ought to frankly be all that needs to be said, your product simply doesn't measure up, sorry.

Hey nice straw man you built there, be a shame if i threw this match by it...WHOOSH! Comparing LGPL to vanilla GPL is like saying "Well if you can do it with BSD you MUST be able to do it with GPL, since they are all FOSS licenses, right?" even RMS has come out against LGPL because it doesn't promote his agenda like the GPL does, so comparing the two is pointless, other than the name they really have little in common.

And I think its funny as hell that the so called "enlightened" FOSSie faction can ONLY throw insults, know why that is? Because otherwise all you get is the same old excuses, which just FYI they have been used so many times there is a joke site that lists them and the one I linked to I think is VERY apropos as most of the FOSSie faction are notorious for using circcular logic. Oh and last time I showed up with a link from TM Repo one FOSSie had the brass balls to compare a joke site to Stormfront, which just shows that FOSSie is a good choice of name, like Moonie one can't question their beliefs.

You know why you hate TMRepo, which BTW you should be fucking ASHAMED of comparing a JOKE SITE to Stromfront you douchebag, but you know why you hate it? Because like all good jokes its FUNNY BECAUSE ITS TRUE.

I can answer ALL of your arguments with the top 20 TMRepos, you know why? Its the SAME FUCKING EXCUSES the FOSSies have been using for a fricking decade, that's why! How do you think TMRepo came to be? a guy got tired of hearing the same old FOSSie bullshit and decided to just start listing them and tada! TMRepo.

So go back to your circle of loon, go back to pretending that the OEMs haven't all walked away from your broken mess because they got tired of the broken shit which even ESR can't make work while claiming that android is Linux.

Know what the definition of insanity is? Doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result and that is Linux in a nutshell which is why me and every other B&M retailer and OEM have run away screaming from your mess, why even Dell hides it on a back page and gives you multiple warning before they will even sell it to you and just FYI unlike the Windows versions NO SUPPORT because even they know that shit is gonna break. I mean for the love of God fricking God Windows 8, the most hated windows since MSBob, got more users by its second month than Linux has in its entire history, what more proof do you fucking need that your current bullshit direction ain't working?

BTW know why I can produce so many citations and all you can produce is insults? because just like TMRepo I've heard the same excuses from FOSSies for so damned long i know EXACTLY what to type into a search engine to cut through your lies, but you hang onto your bullshit but if you have the balls take the Hairyfeet challenge, I dare you, double dare you to film it and upload it, you'll find that even giving Linux just HALF the support cycle of Linux it WILL fail, know why? Because the "let the devs do it" driver horseshit is just that,total fucking horseshit and IT DOES NOT WORK, it will NEVER work, and THAT is why even the other free OSes refuse to use his fucked up driver model!

I'll get hate but screw it, the reason linux goes nowhere is the same reason you name the distro and it won't pass the "Hairyfeet Challenge" which is already tilted badly in Linux' favor, and that is Linus Torvalds gives more care about religious dogma than designing an OS that works and since the vast majority of the public are NOT what I call "FOSSies" and do not give a rat turd about GPL purity Linux goes nowhere. I mean for God's sake guys, there is several orders of magnitude more people willing to risk tens of thousands in fines and possible jail time to steal the other guy's product than take yours for free, doesn't that set off a lightbulb above your head?

The simple fact of the matter is that NOBODY uses Torvalds fucked up "Let the devs do it" driver model, not even the other free as in freedom OSes like BSD and Solaris and the reason why is it DOES NOT WORK, hell you can use basic math to show why it'll never work, ready? You have MAYBE 400 guys working with Torvalds and qualified to write and debug low level systems drivers, following so far? Now add in the fact that there is probably a good 10,000 new devices coming out per quarter MINIMUM and a good 100,000+ drivers that are ALREADY in the tree....see the problem yet? if you mainlined those devs on Bolivian Marching Powder so they NEVER slept and ONLY worked on drivers you'd have each driver getting around 20 minutes worth of time every 3 years or so, which is why you end up with drivers like these that were half assed and piss poor to begin with, only having half the hardware functional, and are poorly supported on top of that.

But what do we get when we point this out, and what I'm sure to hear here? We don't need no steekin ABI and then you expect, with a straight face and without a trace of irony, for Joe and jane Average to do forum hunts, google for fixes, and be able to tweak piles of CLI crapola because thanks to Torvalds fucked up way of dealing with drivers, which worked in 93 when you had a couple of hundred drivers but just can't scale to the number we have today, leaves even Eric Raymond unable to get a printer to work over the network, a feature that the other guy has been doing since WinXP in 01 trivially. In fact the ONLY response you can show from the kernel devs is a RELIGIOUS argument, in fact the dev even wrote "and I hope we break none free drivers often!" which if that doesn't show you its about the GPL religion over having a functional OS then I don't know what will.

At the end of the day you have to be either the most arrogant prick on the planet or fucking deluded to look and see that EVERY SINGLE OTHER OS does it one way, BSD, Solaris, Windows, OSX, iOS, fuck even OS/2 and your "dear leader" goes for the exact opposite approach, one that NOBODY other than him uses, and then to believe he is actually right and they are wrong, that he is fucking smarter than ALL those OS devs put together? I'm sorry but that is bullshit and ironically the community knows it too even if they won't say it out loud. after all what does everybody on the forums tell you to buy from graphics? Nvidia a NON FREE DRIVER because what do you know, the driver actually WORKS. sadly Nvidia is the only company it seems willing to blow that much money supporting Linux, the rest aren't gonna pay an entire dev team to fix what Torvalds and Co. break and Joe and jane sure as fuck ain't gonna put with updates shitting all over drivers and forum hunts for fixes.

Good lord are we REALLY gonna have to explain on every. damned. security. story. how having the source isn't magic? The "many eyes" myth is just that and just because a program or website is FOSS doesn't make it more secure? hell watch how easy it is to blow "many eyes" out of the water, ready?

Now we ALL know that Slashdot is one of the most FOSS loving websites there is,right? That while the global numbers of Linux users are around 0.9% we could easily hit double digits here, right? this is like Geeker heaven, yes? Okay here goes...show of hands, how many of you have done an extensive code audit on Libre Office? Gimp? Firefox? Anyone? Bueller?

NOW do you understand why simply having source means jack and squat? For many eyes to work IRL you'd have to have 1.- Enough guys with the requisite skills and experience to even SPOT the flaws, see the Obfuscated C contest as to why THAT is important, 2.- Those guys have nothing better to do than to scan and debug YOUR code all day, which considering how in demand highly skilled programmers are? Not very damned likely, and finally 3.- Have enough of them to keep up with the changes that when you are talking about FOSS is practically a torrent. hell I bet it would take a good year to do an extensive code audit of a large program like Libre office...how many releases did LO have last year? See the problem yet?

Having the code fixes ONE problem and one problem alone, and that is old versions being abandoned. If you have the code AND you have the skills OR the money to hire your own dev team than and ONLY then will that code be a life saver, the rest of the time, and especially when we are talking about security, which involves not just the program itself but the underlying OS and subsystems? yeah...not so much. Frankly if even 3% of the code in your average distro gets seen by anybody but the guys running the projects I'd frankly be amazed but thanks to the "many eyes" myth people think because something CAN happen it HAS happened. Well by that logic because theoretically an immortal CAN be born then there are immortals running the earth, but i really don't think I have to worry about a 400 year old Scotsman with a sword coming at me in the parking lot, do you?

Bullshit, just because something doesn't have code for you to play with doesn't automatically make it "security by obscurity" and it has been proven time and again that many eyes like the mythical man month is just that, a myth which even a tiny bit of logic and common sense can rip apart.

For something as complex as a security related program you would have to have 1.- Users with enough years of experience in the cryptography field to actually make heads or tails of it (see the obfuscated C code contest for why this is important) and 2.- These same users, which generally are some of the most in demand guys in IT, having enough free time to check not ONLY the program itself but ALSO anything that is interacting with the code,aka the "trust the compiler" problem.

Show of hands, how many here have done a detailed in depth code audit on Firefox? LibreOffice? Gimp? I rest my case. here is probably the most FOSS heavy geek site on the net and I bet you can't even find 5 people that has so much as even looked at a line of code from the above, which is the 3 most popular FOSS apps BTW, and you won't find even one that has done an in depth code audit for any of the above. And this of course isn't even taking into account the fact that code doesn't stand still so in the time it takes you to do a code audit of say LO 4.1 there will have been 3 releases so that LO is at 4.4 and your audit is worthless and you need to start over. after all who knows what weaknesses the changes added? Maybe a change affects a system you have already audited making it now a risk?

The "having the code automatically makes it more secure" myth hangs on a simple fallacy, the fallacy that assumes because something CAN happen it already HAS happened which real life proves wrong again and again. After all theoretically somebody COULD be born that is immortal but that doesn't mean there ARE immortals walking the earth, and I bet a good 70% of the little projects that make up the average Linux distro probably haven't had their code looked at by anybody that doesn't actually work on the project, everyone just ASSUMES that it has been. Well the same thing applies to proprietary, it COULD have been made by the smartest minds in cryptography or it COULD have been made by Indian call center workers, you don't know in either case how well or poorly the program has been built until AFTER somebody breaks it.

Yeah windows 8.1 sucks ass because Ballmer has a giant boner for cellphones but ya know what? You take a lousy $30 over to Aston Shell and tada! You now have an OS that will look and act just like windows 7 (Or OSX, or XP, hell you can even go Win9X if that turns your butter) that will be updated for TEN YEARS without having the drivers shit all over!

And the FOSSie faction better not feed us the stable kernel ABI nonsense koolaid slurping or "works for me" horseshit or I WILL wallpaper this page with everything from major OEMs like Dell to user after user finding the same thing,Torvalds and crew shitting all over the drivers.

Riddle me this FOSSie faction, if Torvalds is such a fucking genius when it comes to drivers how come NOBODY uses his design? I mean fucking NOBODY,Not BSD,Solaris, OSX,iOS,Android, fuck even OS/2 Warp had a stable ABI, you know the ONLY person who doesn't use one? The same one who is doing the same jerking off bullshit he's been doing since 1993,Linus "I'm too full of myself" Torvalds. well I'll say the same thing about him that RMS said about Jobs, I won't be glad when he's dead but I'll be DAMN glad when he's gone. Mark my words not a month after Torvalds gets his ancient smug ass out of the driver seat the next guy will bring an ABI and tada! Shit will "just work" and he'll be hailed as a fucking genius!

In a way Linux and windows have more in common now than ever, because its NOT the software that is holding it back, its the assholes running the show that screw everything up for the rest! funny that MSFT puts out the most hated OS since WinME and Linux has gained NO SHARE,not a fucking inch, hell there are more people stealing the other guy's product than will take yours for free....how much of a fucking cluebat do you gotta get hit upside the head with? if you give your product away for free and people would rather risk thousands in fines and even possible jail time to steal the other guy's wares than take yours? Then YOU SUCK and should listen to the damned people and fix that shit!

Can we just quit with the "shills trolls vampires" trope already?

A REAL SHILL is frankly as easy to spot as a goth kid in a bible camp, that is because corporate makes them "stay on message" so it never fails you end up with "buzzword bingo" that no normal human actually uses in a day to day conversation. we have seen such gems as "vertical synergy" "enhanced user experience" and so on and so forth. Seriously guys they are REALLY not hard to spot, a real shill is as subtle as old Twitter was when it came to Linux, corporate just won't let them deviate too far from script.

So can we please stop with the whole "Shills trolls vampires" thing already? All it does is derail the conversations which if you truly believe they are there to insure positive feedback for a product YOU JUST HELPED THEM by totally killing any discussion of the product in question. if a person is really shilling any discussion will quickly take apart their position, and as i said they can't help but slip in marketing speak so it will quickly become self evident, why fuck up the conversation for everybody else? Its as pointless as being in the middle of a discussion of chip designs and having somebody scream "NIGGER!" at the top of their lungs...thanks for sharing, please go away now.

The same goes for throwing the "troll" word around, if you think they are full of shit? Then you should be able to produce multiple counter examples and citations to blow away their position. We are SUPPOSED to be geeks here, use your brain and come up with a counter argument. Screaming troll or just answering a post with nothing but mindless insults with nothing to back it up reminds me of those 14 year old CoD players screaming "FAGGOT!" and claiming someone HAS to be cheating to be able to pop a cap in their snot nosed ass. If you think they are wrong? PROVE IT, provide an intelligent counter argument with multiple examples that picks apart any position they had and let everyone see and judge the evidence for themselves.

Personally i think its sad how far this site has fallen, I really do. We used to have 300 post threads where various positions would be argued, pros and cons weighed, even when it was heated you LEARNED and would leave the site better informed than when you left. Now it seems to be all about group think and name calling, one must join the herd and bleat the same talking points endlessly with nothing to back it up, else it quickly turns into "shill troll vampire" name calling. Kinda sad really, and I wonder if that isn't why more and more of the old guard are just walking away.

If all you are gonna do to defend is quote bits of the circle of loon do us both a favor and don't bother, okay? What is sad is every bullshit defense of Linux and Torvalds bad practices i can cover with 7 or less TMs from linux TM repo which is a fricking joke site made to highlight how much of it is just the same old bullshit excuses.

lets see, just from looking at the first couple of lines you've invoked our developers can do no wrong, the more developers the better the software linux supports more hardware and Linux friendly hardware AKA "blame the victim" just for good measure.

You know why its soooo damned easy to pick apart yours or any other defends arguments JUST using the TM Repo? because its the same shitty pathetic excuses we've gotten from linux for the better part of the decade, the exact same ones over, and over, and over, it never changes. Its like the old joke "If I gave you a sandwich that is 95% shit and 5% ham, would you call it a ham sandwich?" because THAT is what you get, the devs can go "its everybody else's fault" and you'll buy it, they can say "works for me!" and you'll take that as a legitimate excuse, and when there is obvious fail rubbed in your nose, like with Dell having to run their own God damned repo just to keep the drivers from shitting on themselves thanks to those "great devs" shitting all over the internals? why the community will counter with you don't need that.

This is why I have anything to do with linux blocked from my feeds, because its pointless, its like talking to young earthers, there is no amount of evidence or citations that will change their mind because it ALL comes down to religion and faith. I mean for the love of Christ the ONLY argument against a driver ABI you've gotten from a dev is so damned Church of GPL he actually writes "And I hope all non free drivers are broken often"? I mean WTF more evidence do you need? RMS dropping his pants and showing a GPL tat on his ass? In ANY other org his ass would be FIRED with a capital F, but because FOSS has become a fucking Scientology style religion he was cheered!

So do us all a favor, if you can't come up with an argument that wasn't covered by TM Repo a half a decade ago? Keep your pamplets to yourself. You know what the definition of insanity is, right? Well its been 20 years, Linux is down to 0.97% and falling, if that doesn't wake the fucking community up nothing will, let 'em sit in the corner and wonder why you have tens of millions that would rather take the risk of stealing the other guy's product than take yours for free.

Of course i'm sure you'll counter with stable kernel API nonsense and maybe imaginary problems kill windows just to be safe.

If all you are gonna do to defend is quote bits of the circle of loon do us both a favor and don't bother, okay? What is sad is every bullshit defense of Linux and Torvalds bad practices i can cover with 7 or less TMs from linux TM repo which is a fricking joke site made to highlight how much of it is just the same old bullshit excuses.

lets see, just from looking at the first couple of lines you've invoked our developers can do no wrong, the more developers the better the software linux supports more hardware and Linux friendly hardware AKA "blame the victim" just for good measure.

You know why its soooo damned easy to pick apart yours or any other defends arguments JUST using the TM Repo? because its the same shitty pathetic excuses we've gotten from linux for the better part of the decade, the exact same ones over, and over, and over, it never changes. Its like the old joke "If I gave you a sandwich that is 95% shit and 5% ham, would you call it a ham sandwich?" because THAT is what you get, the devs can go "its everybody else's fault" and you'll buy it, they can say "works for me!" and you'll take that as a legitimate excuse, and when there is obvious fail rubbed in your nose, like with Dell having to run their own God damned repo just to keep the drivers from shitting on themselves thanks to those "great devs" shitting all over the internals? why the community will counter with you don't need that.

This is why I have anything to do with linux blocked from my feeds, because its pointless, its like talking to young earthers, there is no amount of evidence or citations that will change their mind because it ALL comes down to religion and faith. I mean for the love of Christ the ONLY argument against a driver ABI you've gotten from a dev is so damned Church of GPL he actually writes "And I hope all non free drivers are broken often"? I mean WTF more evidence do you need? RMS dropping his pants and showing a GPL tat on his ass? In ANY other org his ass would be FIRED with a capital F, but because FOSS has become a fucking Scientology style religion he was cheered!

So do us all a favor, if you can't come up with an argument that wasn't covered by TM Repo a half a decade ago? Keep your pamplets to yourself. You know what the definition of insanity is, right? Well its been 20 years, Linux is down to 0.97% and falling, if that doesn't wake the fucking community up nothing will, let 'em sit in the corner and wonder why you have tens of millions that would rather take the risk of stealing the other guy's product than take yours for free.

Of course i'm sure you'll counter with stable kernel API nonsense and maybe imaginary problems kill windows just to be safe.

If all you are gonna do to defend is quote bits of the circle of loon do us both a favor and don't bother, okay? What is sad is every bullshit defense of Linux and Torvalds bad practices i can cover with 7 or less TMs from linux TM repo which is a fricking joke site made to highlight how much of it is just the same old bullshit excuses.

lets see, just from looking at the first couple of lines you've invoked our developers can do no wrong, the more developers the better the software linux supports more hardware and Linux friendly hardware AKA "blame the victim" just for good measure.

You know why its soooo damned easy to pick apart yours or any other defends arguments JUST using the TM Repo? because its the same shitty pathetic excuses we've gotten from linux for the better part of the decade, the exact same ones over, and over, and over, it never changes. Its like the old joke "If I gave you a sandwich that is 95% shit and 5% ham, would you call it a ham sandwich?" because THAT is what you get, the devs can go "its everybody else's fault" and you'll buy it, they can say "works for me!" and you'll take that as a legitimate excuse, and when there is obvious fail rubbed in your nose, like with Dell having to run their own God damned repo just to keep the drivers from shitting on themselves thanks to those "great devs" shitting all over the internals? why the community will counter with you don't need that.

This is why I have anything to do with linux blocked from my feeds, because its pointless, its like talking to young earthers, there is no amount of evidence or citations that will change their mind because it ALL comes down to religion and faith. I mean for the love of Christ the ONLY argument against a driver ABI you've gotten from a dev is so damned Church of GPL he actually writes "And I hope all non free drivers are broken often"? I mean WTF more evidence do you need? RMS dropping his pants and showing a GPL tat on his ass? In ANY other org his ass would be FIRED with a capital F, but because FOSS has become a fucking Scientology style religion he was cheered!

So do us all a favor, if you can't come up with an argument that wasn't covered by TM Repo a half a decade ago? Keep your pamplets to yourself. You know what the definition of insanity is, right? Well its been 20 years, Linux is down to 0.97% and falling, if that doesn't wake the fucking community up nothing will, let 'em sit in the corner and wonder why you have tens of millions that would rather take the risk of stealing the other guy's product than take yours for free.

Of course i'm sure you'll counter with stable kernel API nonsense and maybe imaginary problems kill windows just to be safe.

If all you are gonna do to defend is quote bits of the circle of loon do us both a favor and don't bother, okay? What is sad is every bullshit defense of Linux and Torvalds bad practices i can cover with 7 or less TMs from linux TM repo which is a fricking joke site made to highlight how much of it is just the same old bullshit excuses.

lets see, just from looking at the first couple of lines you've invoked our developers can do no wrong, the more developers the better the software linux supports more hardware and Linux friendly hardware AKA "blame the victim" just for good measure.

You know why its soooo damned easy to pick apart yours or any other defends arguments JUST using the TM Repo? because its the same shitty pathetic excuses we've gotten from linux for the better part of the decade, the exact same ones over, and over, and over, it never changes. Its like the old joke "If I gave you a sandwich that is 95% shit and 5% ham, would you call it a ham sandwich?" because THAT is what you get, the devs can go "its everybody else's fault" and you'll buy it, they can say "works for me!" and you'll take that as a legitimate excuse, and when there is obvious fail rubbed in your nose, like with Dell having to run their own God damned repo just to keep the drivers from shitting on themselves thanks to those "great devs" shitting all over the internals? why the community will counter with you don't need that.

This is why I have anything to do with linux blocked from my feeds, because its pointless, its like talking to young earthers, there is no amount of evidence or citations that will change their mind because it ALL comes down to religion and faith. I mean for the love of Christ the ONLY argument against a driver ABI you've gotten from a dev is so damned Church of GPL he actually writes "And I hope all non free drivers are broken often"? I mean WTF more evidence do you need? RMS dropping his pants and showing a GPL tat on his ass? In ANY other org his ass would be FIRED with a capital F, but because FOSS has become a fucking Scientology style religion he was cheered!

So do us all a favor, if you can't come up with an argument that wasn't covered by TM Repo a half a decade ago? Keep your pamplets to yourself. You know what the definition of insanity is, right? Well its been 20 years, Linux is down to 0.97% and falling, if that doesn't wake the fucking community up nothing will, let 'em sit in the corner and wonder why you have tens of millions that would rather take the risk of stealing the other guy's product than take yours for free.

Of course i'm sure you'll counter with stable kernel API nonsense and maybe imaginary problems kill windows just to be safe.

If all you are gonna do to defend is quote bits of the circle of loon do us both a favor and don't bother, okay? What is sad is every bullshit defense of Linux and Torvalds bad practices i can cover with 7 or less TMs from linux TM repo which is a fricking joke site made to highlight how much of it is just the same old bullshit excuses.

lets see, just from looking at the first couple of lines you've invoked our developers can do no wrong, the more developers the better the software linux supports more hardware and Linux friendly hardware AKA "blame the victim" just for good measure.

You know why its soooo damned easy to pick apart yours or any other defends arguments JUST using the TM Repo? because its the same shitty pathetic excuses we've gotten from linux for the better part of the decade, the exact same ones over, and over, and over, it never changes. Its like the old joke "If I gave you a sandwich that is 95% shit and 5% ham, would you call it a ham sandwich?" because THAT is what you get, the devs can go "its everybody else's fault" and you'll buy it, they can say "works for me!" and you'll take that as a legitimate excuse, and when there is obvious fail rubbed in your nose, like with Dell having to run their own God damned repo just to keep the drivers from shitting on themselves thanks to those "great devs" shitting all over the internals? why the community will counter with you don't need that.

This is why I have anything to do with linux blocked from my feeds, because its pointless, its like talking to young earthers, there is no amount of evidence or citations that will change their mind because it ALL comes down to religion and faith. I mean for the love of Christ the ONLY argument against a driver ABI you've gotten from a dev is so damned Church of GPL he actually writes "And I hope all non free drivers are broken often"? I mean WTF more evidence do you need? RMS dropping his pants and showing a GPL tat on his ass? In ANY other org his ass would be FIRED with a capital F, but because FOSS has become a fucking Scientology style religion he was cheered!

So do us all a favor, if you can't come up with an argument that wasn't covered by TM Repo a half a decade ago? Keep your pamplets to yourself. You know what the definition of insanity is, right? Well its been 20 years, Linux is down to 0.97% and falling, if that doesn't wake the fucking community up nothing will, let 'em sit in the corner and wonder why you have tens of millions that would rather take the risk of stealing the other guy's product than take yours for free.

Of course i'm sure you'll counter with stable kernel API nonsense and maybe imaginary problems kill windows just to be safe.

If all you are gonna do to defend is quote bits of the circle of loon do us both a favor and don't bother, okay? What is sad is every bullshit defense of Linux and Torvalds bad practices i can cover with 7 or less TMs from linux TM repo which is a fricking joke site made to highlight how much of it is just the same old bullshit excuses.

lets see, just from looking at the first couple of lines you've invoked our developers can do no wrong, the more developers the better the software linux supports more hardware and Linux friendly hardware AKA "blame the victim" just for good measure.

You know why its soooo damned easy to pick apart yours or any other defends arguments JUST using the TM Repo? because its the same shitty pathetic excuses we've gotten from linux for the better part of the decade, the exact same ones over, and over, and over, it never changes. Its like the old joke "If I gave you a sandwich that is 95% shit and 5% ham, would you call it a ham sandwich?" because THAT is what you get, the devs can go "its everybody else's fault" and you'll buy it, they can say "works for me!" and you'll take that as a legitimate excuse, and when there is obvious fail rubbed in your nose, like with Dell having to run their own God damned repo just to keep the drivers from shitting on themselves thanks to those "great devs" shitting all over the internals? why the community will counter with you don't need that.

This is why I have anything to do with linux blocked from my feeds, because its pointless, its like talking to young earthers, there is no amount of evidence or citations that will change their mind because it ALL comes down to religion and faith. I mean for the love of Christ the ONLY argument against a driver ABI you've gotten from a dev is so damned Church of GPL he actually writes "And I hope all non free drivers are broken often"? I mean WTF more evidence do you need? RMS dropping his pants and showing a GPL tat on his ass? In ANY other org his ass would be FIRED with a capital F, but because FOSS has become a fucking Scientology style religion he was cheered!

So do us all a favor, if you can't come up with an argument that wasn't covered by TM Repo a half a decade ago? Keep your pamplets to yourself. You know what the definition of insanity is, right? Well its been 20 years, Linux is down to 0.97% and falling, if that doesn't wake the fucking community up nothing will, let 'em sit in the corner and wonder why you have tens of millions that would rather take the risk of stealing the other guy's product than take yours for free.

Of course i'm sure you'll counter with stable kernel API nonsense and maybe imaginary problems kill windows just to be safe.

If all you are gonna do to defend is quote bits of the circle of loon do us both a favor and don't bother, okay? What is sad is every bullshit defense of Linux and Torvalds bad practices i can cover with 7 or less TMs from linux TM repo which is a fricking joke site made to highlight how much of it is just the same old bullshit excuses.

lets see, just from looking at the first couple of lines you've invoked our developers can do no wrong, the more developers the better the software linux supports more hardware and Linux friendly hardware AKA "blame the victim" just for good measure.

You know why its soooo damned easy to pick apart yours or any other defends arguments JUST using the TM Repo? because its the same shitty pathetic excuses we've gotten from linux for the better part of the decade, the exact same ones over, and over, and over, it never changes. Its like the old joke "If I gave you a sandwich that is 95% shit and 5% ham, would you call it a ham sandwich?" because THAT is what you get, the devs can go "its everybody else's fault" and you'll buy it, they can say "works for me!" and you'll take that as a legitimate excuse, and when there is obvious fail rubbed in your nose, like with Dell having to run their own God damned repo just to keep the drivers from shitting on themselves thanks to those "great devs" shitting all over the internals? why the community will counter with you don't need that.

This is why I have anything to do with linux blocked from my feeds, because its pointless, its like talking to young earthers, there is no amount of evidence or citations that will change their mind because it ALL comes down to religion and faith. I mean for the love of Christ the ONLY argument against a driver ABI you've gotten from a dev is so damned Church of GPL he actually writes "And I hope all non free drivers are broken often"? I mean WTF more evidence do you need? RMS dropping his pants and showing a GPL tat on his ass? In ANY other org his ass would be FIRED with a capital F, but because FOSS has become a fucking Scientology style religion he was cheered!

So do us all a favor, if you can't come up with an argument that wasn't covered by TM Repo a half a decade ago? Keep your pamplets to yourself. You know what the definition of insanity is, right? Well its been 20 years, Linux is down to 0.97% and falling, if that doesn't wake the fucking community up nothing will, let 'em sit in the corner and wonder why you have tens of millions that would rather take the risk of stealing the other guy's product than take yours for free.

Of course i'm sure you'll counter with stable kernel API nonsense and maybe imaginary problems kill windows just to be safe.

If all you are gonna do to defend is quote bits of the circle of loon do us both a favor and don't bother, okay? What is sad is every bullshit defense of Linux and Torvalds bad practices i can cover with 7 or less TMs from linux TM repo which is a fricking joke site made to highlight how much of it is just the same old bullshit excuses.

lets see, just from looking at the first couple of lines you've invoked our developers can do no wrong, the more developers the better the software linux supports more hardware and Linux friendly hardware AKA "blame the victim" just for good measure.

You know why its soooo damned easy to pick apart yours or any other defends arguments JUST using the TM Repo? because its the same shitty pathetic excuses we've gotten from linux for the better part of the decade, the exact same ones over, and over, and over, it never changes. Its like the old joke "If I gave you a sandwich that is 95% shit and 5% ham, would you call it a ham sandwich?" because THAT is what you get, the devs can go "its everybody else's fault" and you'll buy it, they can say "works for me!" and you'll take that as a legitimate excuse, and when there is obvious fail rubbed in your nose, like with Dell having to run their own God damned repo just to keep the drivers from shitting on themselves thanks to those "great devs" shitting all over the internals? why the community will counter with you don't need that.

This is why I have anything to do with linux blocked from my feeds, because its pointless, its like talking to young earthers, there is no amount of evidence or citations that will change their mind because it ALL comes down to religion and faith. I mean for the love of Christ the ONLY argument against a driver ABI you've gotten from a dev is so damned Church of GPL he actually writes "And I hope all non free drivers are broken often"? I mean WTF more evidence do you need? RMS dropping his pants and showing a GPL tat on his ass? In ANY other org his ass would be FIRED with a capital F, but because FOSS has become a fucking Scientology style religion he was cheered!

So do us all a favor, if you can't come up with an argument that wasn't covered by TM Repo a half a decade ago? Keep your pamplets to yourself. You know what the definition of insanity is, right? Well its been 20 years, Linux is down to 0.97% and falling, if that doesn't wake the fucking community up nothing will, let 'em sit in the corner and wonder why you have tens of millions that would rather take the risk of stealing the other guy's product than take yours for free.

Of course i'm sure you'll counter with stable kernel API nonsense and maybe imaginary problems kill windows just to be safe.

If all you are gonna do to defend is quote bits of the circle of loon do us both a favor and don't bother, okay? What is sad is every bullshit defense of Linux and Torvalds bad practices i can cover with 7 or less TMs from linux TM repo which is a fricking joke site made to highlight how much of it is just the same old bullshit excuses.

lets see, just from looking at the first couple of lines you've invoked our developers can do no wrong, the more developers the better the software linux supports more hardware and Linux friendly hardware AKA "blame the victim" just for good measure.

You know why its soooo damned easy to pick apart yours or any other defends arguments JUST using the TM Repo? because its the same shitty pathetic excuses we've gotten from linux for the better part of the decade, the exact same ones over, and over, and over, it never changes. Its like the old joke "If I gave you a sandwich that is 95% shit and 5% ham, would you call it a ham sandwich?" because THAT is what you get, the devs can go "its everybody else's fault" and you'll buy it, they can say "works for me!" and you'll take that as a legitimate excuse, and when there is obvious fail rubbed in your nose, like with Dell having to run their own God damned repo just to keep the drivers from shitting on themselves thanks to those "great devs" shitting all over the internals? why the community will counter with you don't need that.

This is why I have anything to do with linux blocked from my feeds, because its pointless, its like talking to young earthers, there is no amount of evidence or citations that will change their mind because it ALL comes down to religion and faith. I mean for the love of Christ the ONLY argument against a driver ABI you've gotten from a dev is so damned Church of GPL he actually writes "And I hope all non free drivers are broken often"? I mean WTF more evidence do you need? RMS dropping his pants and showing a GPL tat on his ass? In ANY other org his ass would be FIRED with a capital F, but because FOSS has become a fucking Scientology style religion he was cheered!

So do us all a favor, if you can't come up with an argument that wasn't covered by TM Repo a half a decade ago? Keep your pamplets to yourself. You know what the definition of insanity is, right? Well its been 20 years, Linux is down to 0.97% and falling, if that doesn't wake the fucking community up nothing will, let 'em sit in the corner and wonder why you have tens of millions that would rather take the risk of stealing the other guy's product than take yours for free.

Of course i'm sure you'll counter with stable kernel API nonsense and maybe imaginary problems kill windows just to be safe.

If all you are gonna do to defend is quote bits of the circle of loon do us both a favor and don't bother, okay? What is sad is every bullshit defense of Linux and Torvalds bad practices i can cover with 7 or less TMs from linux TM repo which is a fricking joke site made to highlight how much of it is just the same old bullshit excuses.

lets see, just from looking at the first couple of lines you've invoked our developers can do no wrong, the more developers the better the software linux supports more hardware and Linux friendly hardware AKA "blame the victim" just for good measure.

You know why its soooo damned easy to pick apart yours or any other defends arguments JUST using the TM Repo? because its the same shitty pathetic excuses we've gotten from linux for the better part of the decade, the exact same ones over, and over, and over, it never changes. Its like the old joke "If I gave you a sandwich that is 95% shit and 5% ham, would you call it a ham sandwich?" because THAT is what you get, the devs can go "its everybody else's fault" and you'll buy it, they can say "works for me!" and you'll take that as a legitimate excuse, and when there is obvious fail rubbed in your nose, like with Dell having to run their own God damned repo just to keep the drivers from shitting on themselves thanks to those "great devs" shitting all over the internals? why the community will counter with you don't need that.

This is why I have anything to do with linux blocked from my feeds, because its pointless, its like talking to young earthers, there is no amount of evidence or citations that will change their mind because it ALL comes down to religion and faith. I mean for the love of Christ the ONLY argument against a driver ABI you've gotten from a dev is so damned Church of GPL he actually writes "And I hope all non free drivers are broken often"? I mean WTF more evidence do you need? RMS dropping his pants and showing a GPL tat on his ass? In ANY other org his ass would be FIRED with a capital F, but because FOSS has become a fucking Scientology style religion he was cheered!

So do us all a favor, if you can't come up with an argument that wasn't covered by TM Repo a half a decade ago? Keep your pamplets to yourself. You know what the definition of insanity is, right? Well its been 20 years, Linux is down to 0.97% and falling, if that doesn't wake the fucking community up nothing will, let 'em sit in the corner and wonder why you have tens of millions that would rather take the risk of stealing the other guy's product than take yours for free.

Of course i'm sure you'll counter with stable kernel API nonsense and maybe imaginary problems kill windows just to be safe.

Ya know why? Because they CAN't deny it, because I can fricking wallpaper this post in "update foo broke my driver" posts and they KNOW this, so all they can do is throw a tantrum like a petulant child or say "Ur a bad mean old poo poo head". You see i'm their worst fricking nightmare...A retailer that has actually USED their product and ended up seeing the same thing Dell saw which is their driver model is BROKEN. I mean here is Dell, one of the largest retailers of PCs on the entire fricking planet, and they were selling...what? maybe a dozen different Linux units MAX? And they couldn't even keep drivers functional on a dozen units, maybe 8 fricking pieces of hardware all told?

The sad part is unlike the koolaid drinkers I WANT Linux to get better, I WANT Linux to pass the challenge, I WANT Linux to be a functional OS...but its not. Its really not. And notice how quickly they dismiss my challenge? If their product works and they believe in it... what are they afraid of? hell i even tilt the test in their favor which anybody doing a legitimate test should NEVER do by only giving them HALF the support cycle of Windows, yet all they can do is insult and try to make me out to be a bad man...why? Why are they so afraid if their product works?

Because it doesn't work and they KNOW this, but like any religious zealot (which is why I call 'em FOSSies instead of Freetards) that is told something against dogma it just can't be true, the scripture HAS to be right. this is why I've blocked the Linux articles from my feeds and have learned to ignore them as its always the same routine, "ur a sekret M$ ninja", "let's move the goal posts", "lets talk about web servers" when the topic is the desktop, its the entire circle of loon bit. Know what I find truly depressing and sad? Go to Linux TM Repo, which was set up as a fricking joke site to lampoon the FOSS zealots, and look at their top 20 Linux TMs, go on I'll wait...there you have just seen EVERY argument they have right there, from "it works for me!" to "Linux runs on supercomputers" its just the same excuses, the same insults, they simply can't face reality so instead of doing something about the situation they just insult all those that don't drink the GNUaid.

You watch they will probably downmod us both to hell rather than even attempt to come up with a counter argument,its because they can't. They piss and moan and make excuses like "companies don't support us!" yet I can take my HD4850 graphics card, uninstall the latest driver, and install the nearly 5 year old driver that came on the disc and it WILL work, when you can't even take the driver from last year and use it on the latest kernel thanks to the stupid ass backwards way Linus set up the driver model. I mean here it is 2013 and a company STILL can't just put a penguin on the God damned box because the drivers on the CD won't even work before it gets to the shelves...how pathetic is that?

Thanks for posting absolutely nothing but a long rambling "Works for me" which of course doesn't require any kind of citations or proof since you pulled it out your ass, feel free to post more useless nothing in the future.

I don't have to say anything, the test if filmed can't be faked since you won't have access to making new time stamps on the video and i doubt you'll be good enough at editing for everyone not to see the jump cuts. You have a simple measure, easy to show as a dipstick on a car, so why are you afraid? Just fire up the hardware manager in whatever DE you have chosen at first boot to show all the hardware is working, then apply the updates, then show the list to see its still working....what is hard about that? And I haven't moved the goalposts, i haven't accused anyone of working for sekret orgs you and your batshit buddies have done that, so the proof is on you. I have given you the most simple test in the world, one frankly rigged in your favor, yet you fear it...is it because you know what will happen? Because taking bog standard laptops from Dell, HP, and Acer i can tell you EXACTLY what happened with over a dozen distros, a broken mess.

You know what is truly sad? here is every rebuttal ever written here to me...note what its called? the circle of the loon, because its a circular argument that never ends. But don't worry I've removed Linux from both my RSS feeds and now from /. as well so please, go back to your giant circlejerking. Won't change the facts, Linux is flatline, nobody wants it, its numbers haven't moved in years Android is owned by Google, and MSFT could put out windows Goatse with smell-o-vision and still have ten times your share because you won't listen, not to users nor OEMs, nope its all circlejerking about how "Nobody knows how to be leet!" They are teh noobs for teh lusers, we are leet!"

So please, enjoy your little fantasy world where anybody gives a rat';s ass, because after 5 years of dealing with the monkey house I sure as fuck don't, If Linux were a company it would have been chap 11 a decade ago, its badly run, no central planning AT ALL, nobody cares about anything but their own little fiefdoms, you should be proud as you copied old Soviet style communism better than I thought anybody ever could, must give the squatter a big old stiffie. Meanwhile the big three will turn the world into locked down cellphones and the people will take it because its the choice of a locked down corporate controlled device that WORKS...or your product. Given that choice is it any wonder Apple is bigger than God now?

OMG did you compare Linux to a sailcar? Maybe built by crazy Earl in his basement. And if you want details? happy to give them. Its a CONSUMER OS challenge so only CONSUMER OSES will be used, that means NO Server 2Kx on the Windows side and no RHEL or SLED on the Linux side...simple enough? And the reason i added the camera requirement is because I once had a bozo supposedly "prove" he could beat the challenge with some screencaps...until somebody pointed out the wireless card he was using wasn't even supported in 2007 so it obviously wasn't working in the beginning which then he suddenly talked about how "anybody can use the forums" thus showing what he did was play "google for fixes" and thus failed the challenge.

But the only place its apples to oranges is in your own mind, you say Linux is ready? here is your chance, we'll take ANY consumer version of Linux YOUR choice and put it head to head on the SAME HARDWARE so that there can be NO BIAS. And the reason I don't name the distro is simple, every time I did I got the standard use distro x excuse. Oh Ubuntu doesn't pass? use Knoppix, Knoppix don't pass? use debian, round and round and round it goes there is over 500 distros on distrowatch so a game of use distro x could go on for a dozen years and never get through all the choices for X.

As for why I let you do it? I'm tired of paying for bandwidth so i can rub the truth, which is the current OS model in Linux is TOTALLY BROKEN, into the nose of the community like rubbing a puppy's nose in its mess. As I have said, you want to pay for the bandwidth? I'll be happy to take a Sunday and do it on live cam, I'll take some random laptop out of the shop and do the challenge right there on a live cam for all to see. you can watch as i format, install the OS, make sure the drivers all work, then update and watch it crap itself. But where I live bandwidth costs $1.50 a GB over the cap and since "use distro x" is an endless excuse i have no intention of throwing more money away only to hear "Oh that one didn't work? Well that is YOUR FAULT for not using distro x! See we win" bullshit you have just moved the goalposts just as they do when they scream paid M$ Shill to try to deflect away from the fact they can't pass the challenge.

Again this is about as simple a test as you can come up with, NO multiple monitors, NO funky hardware like capture cards, just a random laptop from any of the major OEMs with the consumer Linux OF YOUR CHOICE. What could be more simple? the fact that you try to make it sound more complex than it is just tells me you know in your heart whichever distro x you choose won't pass muster either.

OMG did you compare Linux to a sailcar? Maybe built by crazy Earl in his basement. And if you want details? happy to give them. Its a CONSUMER OS challenge so only CONSUMER OSES will be used, that means NO Server 2Kx on the Windows side and no RHEL or SLED on the Linux side...simple enough? And the reason i added the camera requirement is because I once had a bozo supposedly "prove" he could beat the challenge with some screencaps...until somebody pointed out the wireless card he was using wasn't even supported in 2007 so it obviously wasn't working in the beginning which then he suddenly talked about how "anybody can use the forums" thus showing what he did was play "google for fixes" and thus failed the challenge.

But the only place its apples to oranges is in your own mind, you say Linux is ready? here is your chance, we'll take ANY consumer version of Linux YOUR choice and put it head to head on the SAME HARDWARE so that there can be NO BIAS. And the reason I don't name the distro is simple, every time I did I got the standard use distro x excuse. Oh Ubuntu doesn't pass? use Knoppix, Knoppix don't pass? use debian, round and round and round it goes there is over 500 distros on distrowatch so a game of use distro x could go on for a dozen years and never get through all the choices for X.

As for why I let you do it? I'm tired of paying for bandwidth so i can rub the truth, which is the current OS model in Linux is TOTALLY BROKEN, into the nose of the community like rubbing a puppy's nose in its mess. As I have said, you want to pay for the bandwidth? I'll be happy to take a Sunday and do it on live cam, I'll take some random laptop out of the shop and do the challenge right there on a live cam for all to see. you can watch as i format, install the OS, make sure the drivers all work, then update and watch it crap itself. But where I live bandwidth costs $1.50 a GB over the cap and since "use distro x" is an endless excuse i have no intention of throwing more money away only to hear "Oh that one didn't work? Well that is YOUR FAULT for not using distro x! See we win" bullshit you have just moved the goalposts just as they do when they scream paid M$ Shill to try to deflect away from the fact they can't pass the challenge.

Again this is about as simple a test as you can come up with, NO multiple monitors, NO funky hardware like capture cards, just a random laptop from any of the major OEMs with the consumer Linux OF YOUR CHOICE. What could be more simple? the fact that you try to make it sound more complex than it is just tells me you know in your heart whichever distro x you choose won't pass muster either.

OMG did you compare Linux to a sailcar? Maybe built by crazy Earl in his basement. And if you want details? happy to give them. Its a CONSUMER OS challenge so only CONSUMER OSES will be used, that means NO Server 2Kx on the Windows side and no RHEL or SLED on the Linux side...simple enough? And the reason i added the camera requirement is because I once had a bozo supposedly "prove" he could beat the challenge with some screencaps...until somebody pointed out the wireless card he was using wasn't even supported in 2007 so it obviously wasn't working in the beginning which then he suddenly talked about how "anybody can use the forums" thus showing what he did was play "google for fixes" and thus failed the challenge.

But the only place its apples to oranges is in your own mind, you say Linux is ready? here is your chance, we'll take ANY consumer version of Linux YOUR choice and put it head to head on the SAME HARDWARE so that there can be NO BIAS. And the reason I don't name the distro is simple, every time I did I got the standard use distro x excuse. Oh Ubuntu doesn't pass? use Knoppix, Knoppix don't pass? use debian, round and round and round it goes there is over 500 distros on distrowatch so a game of use distro x could go on for a dozen years and never get through all the choices for X.

As for why I let you do it? I'm tired of paying for bandwidth so i can rub the truth, which is the current OS model in Linux is TOTALLY BROKEN, into the nose of the community like rubbing a puppy's nose in its mess. As I have said, you want to pay for the bandwidth? I'll be happy to take a Sunday and do it on live cam, I'll take some random laptop out of the shop and do the challenge right there on a live cam for all to see. you can watch as i format, install the OS, make sure the drivers all work, then update and watch it crap itself. But where I live bandwidth costs $1.50 a GB over the cap and since "use distro x" is an endless excuse i have no intention of throwing more money away only to hear "Oh that one didn't work? Well that is YOUR FAULT for not using distro x! See we win" bullshit you have just moved the goalposts just as they do when they scream paid M$ Shill to try to deflect away from the fact they can't pass the challenge.

Again this is about as simple a test as you can come up with, NO multiple monitors, NO funky hardware like capture cards, just a random laptop from any of the major OEMs with the consumer Linux OF YOUR CHOICE. What could be more simple? the fact that you try to make it sound more complex than it is just tells me you know in your heart whichever distro x you choose won't pass muster either.

Riiiight, that is why every retailer from Best Buy to Walmart, and nearly all the OEMs from Dell to MSI have tried offering Linux and now avoid it like the black death. You see as a retailer there is one little bitty thing the "FOSSies" as i call them seem to forget...if you don't stand behind your products you are dead in retail.

What does that have to do with Linux? Simple your drivers are deep fried shit (thus showing that yes you DO need a stable ABI, if you didn't then your drivers wouldn't be getting crapped on so damned often) and your updates remind of Win9X in that they break more than they fix. Don't believe me? Step right up and take the Hairyfeet Challenge!

You take ANY user friendly distro, PCLOS, any of the *Buntus that has what a Linux users considers to be a normal release schedule which seems to be anywhere from 6 months to a year and a half, take the one from 5 years ago (because as a retailer I can tell you the typical lifespan of a PC now is 5 years) and update it to current using ONLY the GUI, just as the customer who has bought Linux for the first time would be expected to do.

Know what you'll find? Linux IS BROKEN, I don't give a shit what Use Distro X! you name, I have tried it on a dozen so far and its ALWAYS the same, you have multiple drivers BROKEN and a system that is just a mess, in fact many times if you actually just update the thing as you would expect a normal user to do what you end up with is less stable than Win95. Talk about amateur hour, dead WiFi, graphics drivers shat upon, again doesn't really matter which vendor as they all ended up shat upon, from Intel and Nvidia IGP to Nvidia and AMD discrete, all were crapped on by the updates,sound? Bwa ha ha ha, if you think Pulse is gonna survive I have a bridge to nowhere for sale, and even something as simple as basic wired networking can be hit or miss.

So I'm sorry but until you get somebody with a brain to be the head of a distro, one who'll flip the bird to Torvalds and just fork the whole damned thing and make a Linux distro where you can update the damned thing without shit breaking? We retailers would rather try to sell Vista than take that POS because it drives our after sale support costs through the roof. This is why the ONLY place you see Linux systems sold is online, because "all sales are final now fuck off" is pretty much the norm when it comes to online sales. this is the opposite of retail where if I told a customer whose PC wasn't even 2 months old "Go Google for a fix" I'd be closing my doors in under 6 months.

I really wish it wasn't true, that the state of desktop Linux wasn't so piss poor, but it is. why do you think I tried over a dozen "user friendly" distros with that test? Because I WANTED it not to be true, as MSFT gouges us system builders and having a free OS that actually ran well and could be put on all those XP boxes that come through the store? would have been great...too bad the product IS BROKEN.

Linux works in servers because not only do you have guys getting paid a high 5 figures to deal with broken shit and because frankly a LOT of the problem components just aren't there. You don't see servers running WiFi or even sound and most don't have full GUIs, same thing goes for embedded where you get the added bonus of most stuff is never updated.

And I apologize for the length but I am fucking sick of FOSSies trying to blame us retailers for Windows while they keep pushing a piss poor broken product that ignores what we retailers have to have to actually put your product on shelves. hell now Ubuntu is killing LTS and going rolling release, so it can break constantly! I swear Linux devs must like in the bizarro world, its like "Quick things am stable! This not good, our users won't feel leet if they not got broken shit to fix! We must throw out all the stable stuff, break the drivers, toss the DEs for alpha quality crap, then users feel am leet!"...sigh. I said a million times here what we retailers

WorksForMe(TM)

Websites are all fanboys, actual DEVELOPERS OF THE FUCKING PRODUCTS are "reference to authority"...do you realize that you have done EXACTLY like a religious loonie and made little logic hoops that no sane and rational argument can possible contradict? Hmmm...where have I heard this before? Oh that's right its the circle of the loon which is so fricking old its one of the first TMs. Congrats on sticking with the classic Alex.

Enjoy your crazy you fricking FOSSie, pretend the numbers don't suck balls which for a product that has been given away FREE FOR TWENTY YEARS is almost laughably pathetic, but of course i'm sure you'll talk about all the invisible people that aren't counted, or come up with some lame ass excuse about how the air traffic controllers in Zimbabwe use linux (like anybody gives a shit or that it has shit to do with desktops) but you go right back to living that delusion Alex...oh and watch out for the black choppers.

BTW if you want to see how the world sees YOU personally? Here you go which give the Penny Arcade guys credit, they fucking NAILED the typical FOSSie, basement dwelling and all.

Wow, you really WANT a fresh bitchslapping, don't you? Challenge accepted!

Lets see...you have Electronic Arts using DRM, we have Ubisoft still requiring online activation if not always on, and of course the current Linux darling Valve which is you'll stop slurping the GNUoolaid from RMS then you'd know that Steam is THE BIGGEST DRM SYSTEM ON THE PLANET DUMBASS that makes its own secure executable which is LOCKED TO A PLAYER...hmm...locked to a player so nobody can share that, what is it? Sounds familiar, could it be...DRM? Dum dum DUMBASS.

But of course all YOU can do is scream NIGGER which in FOSSie language is called PaidMicrosoftShill, but hey, if your kind didn't act like religious zealots then we couldn't enjoy laughing at you, which we do Alex, we ALL laugh at you, at how you can't even see reality when it is cockslapping you in the face, how no matter how broken a mess the devs hand you you say "Oh please good sir, may I have another?" that's what makes it so damned funny!

Oh wow Alex being a FOSSie and throwing insults, surprise surprise. Hey here is a video of RMS you'll find enlightening and as a public service allow me to post some facts (with links, which of course you can NEVER provide) to give those that aren't sucking GNUoolaid some information about the product you keep championing blindly like a Moonie following his master.

How about a nice kernel exploit? Or how about the guy that wrote EEEBuntu saying Ubuntu sucks? which considering they are the current savior of Linux kinda tells you something.

How sad was it that even when a bug was spreading through OSX there were writers pointing out that's no reason to torture yourself with Linux , after all even a virus ridden OSX actually runs which is more than most distros LOL! But hey, you can always tell them they can fix it otherwise they don't need that right? LOL! And I noticed you just couldn't fricking resist screaming "Nigger!" which in FOSSie is done by screaming PaidMicrosoftShill, hey you think you could throw in one more FOSSie cliche please? Then I'll have a FOSSie Flush ROFL!

But if you didn't have cliches and your pathetic attempts at insults why then you might have to have an independent thought and realize what everybody knows that even when MSFT put out a universally reviled OS you STILL got curb stomped, does that give you ANY clues? or all they all brainwashed by those black choppers that have been following you? Hell when the Chinese were given the choice of your "free OS" or pirating Windows they chose the latter even if it meant staying on XP and using IE fricking 6, LOL! Does that ring ANY bells? A smart person would say "what are we doing wrong the other guy is doing right?" but a FOSSie who is just like a Moonie in that they blindly follow, instead says "Its all a conspiracy! They are all shills keeping the masses from true salvation!" and then you wonder why we all laugh at you because you DON'T Listen, you DON'T learn, and Torvalds could take a big steaming dump and hand it to you and you'd thank him for his generous gift. So enjoy that fresh bitchslapping loony, enjoy the fact that the world really doesn't care...but I do, I enjoy slapping you, it makes me feel all warm and fuzzy.

Oh wow Alex being a FOSSie and throwing insults, surprise surprise. Hey here is a video of RMS you'll find enlightening and as a public service allow me to post some facts (with links, which of course you can NEVER provide) to give those that aren't sucking GNUoolaid some information about the product you keep championing blindly like a Moonie following his master.

How about a nice kernel exploit? Or how about the guy that wrote EEEBuntu saying Ubuntu sucks? which considering they are the current savior of Linux kinda tells you something.

How sad was it that even when a bug was spreading through OSX there were writers pointing out that's no reason to torture yourself with Linux , after all even a virus ridden OSX actually runs which is more than most distros LOL! But hey, you can always tell them they can fix it otherwise they don't need that right? LOL! And I noticed you just couldn't fricking resist screaming "Nigger!" which in FOSSie is done by screaming PaidMicrosoftShill, hey you think you could throw in one more FOSSie cliche please? Then I'll have a FOSSie Flush ROFL!

But if you didn't have cliches and your pathetic attempts at insults why then you might have to have an independent thought and realize what everybody knows that even when MSFT put out a universally reviled OS you STILL got curb stomped, does that give you ANY clues? or all they all brainwashed by those black choppers that have been following you? Hell when the Chinese were given the choice of your "free OS" or pirating Windows they chose the latter even if it meant staying on XP and using IE fricking 6, LOL! Does that ring ANY bells? A smart person would say "what are we doing wrong the other guy is doing right?" but a FOSSie who is just like a Moonie in that they blindly follow, instead says "Its all a conspiracy! They are all shills keeping the masses from true salvation!" and then you wonder why we all laugh at you because you DON'T Listen, you DON'T learn, and Torvalds could take a big steaming dump and hand it to you and you'd thank him for his generous gift. So enjoy that fresh bitchslapping loony, enjoy the fact that the world really doesn't care...but I do, I enjoy slapping you, it makes me feel all warm and fuzzy.