Domain: vrg.org
Stories and comments across the archive that link to vrg.org.
Comments · 12
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Re:Vegan mums today.
Your liver can hold and retain a sufficient quantity of B12 to hold you over for, potentially, years (not recommending that you experiment with this).
To answer your question, though... The easiest non-pill supplement I've found for B12, as a vegan, is Nutritional Yeast. Internet or healthy food stores.
Here's a link if you want to read up on sources a bit: http://www.vrg.org/nutrition/b12.htm -
Re:And
"It's all about eating blood to get the iron-laden haemoglobin, and red meat is red because it still has blood in it (while white meat is white because the blood has been drained)"
That's fantastically incorrect. "Red meat" is read because of high content of myoglobin ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myoglobin ) - another oxygen-binding protein. It's found in muscle cells which do short bursts of work.
Also, vegan diets ARE possible. Iron is not a problem: http://www.vrg.org/nutrition/iron.htm
So stop spouting nonsense.
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Re:Er.
Except there are plenty of vegan foods that contain protein.
Here's the first google result for searching "vegan protein":
http://www.vrg.org/nutrition/protein.htm
Also, IANAV, but I did know that meat was not the only source of protein.
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Re:Good Luck...
Apparently it can be, but it may depend on the brand and type.
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Re:They are unpleasant alreadyAlso the supplement you mentioned is more in fish than in meat so ppl who eat no meat and chicken and only eat fish will be healthier. Okay, can someone please explain to me w(hy)tf organ, muscle, and connective tissues derived from land animals is called meat, but the same derived from aquatic creatures isn't? Further, when you declare that you're a veg(an/egatarian/etable -- synonyms IMHO) what "moral line" are you drawing that makes it okay to eat fish-muscle (or mussel-muscle!), but not, for example, poultry-, bovine- or porcine- muscle?!
Also, however much you might try to obfuscate it, humans are omnivores . We're meat eaters too and willfully denying that part of our nature makes about as much dietary sense as castration does sexually... (i.e. both decisions will tend towards improved health, and longevity, but they also represent a significant diminishment in the quality of that life...)
-AC -
Re:A better idea
I ate vegan (only non-animal products) for a while. I loved how everything was low on fat; it made me feel energetic, and I lost about 5 kilos in the first couple of weeks, and stayed on my lower weight (in case you're wondering: both weights were considered good). However, now that it's dark and gloomy outside, I find I like to eat heavier food, so I'm back on cheese and meat. Still, I wanted to share some of the links I collected while cooking vegan food:
Veganism in a Nutshell -- The Vegetarian Resource Group
PCRM >> Clinical Research >> Diabetes: Can a Vegan Diet Reverse Diabetes?
Vegetarians in Paradise/ Diabetes Diet/Diabetes Prevention
Strict Vegan Diets May Be Dangerous, Especially for Expectant Mothers and Children
My general verdict about vegan cooking is that it's fun, it's healthy as long as you counter the deficiencies you'll develop (mainly vitamin B12), and it's good for the planet and the animals. -
Re:Captain Obvious breaks it down again
Good to know it works for you. I suspect you're the exception rather than the rule.
How about we look at the actual scientific consensus rather than anecdotes?
"It is the position of The American Dietetic Association (ADA) that appropriately planned vegetarian diets are healthful, are nutritionally adequate, and provide health benefits in the prevention and treatment of certain diseases."
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"Studies indicate that vegetarians often have lower morbidity (1) and mortality (2) rates from several chronic degenerative diseases than do nonvegetarians.
Now, if you're a younger fellow (as the
/. readership trends), there is mentioned a possible reason why you may observe some unhealthy vegans: "Vegetarian diets are somewhat more common among adolescents with eating disorders than in the general adolescent population; therefore, dietetics professionals should be aware of young clients who greatly limit food choices and who exhibit symptoms of eating disorders. However, recent data suggest that adopting a vegetarian diet does not lead to eating disorders."I.e., if due to some mental health issue you don't want to eat, "I can't eat that because I'm vegan" makes a good excuse, at least if the people around you don't understand veganism.
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Re:Let's hope this means the end of vealfrom The Vegetarian Resource Guide:
Reliable Vegan Sources of Vitamin B12
A number of reliable vegan food sources for vitamin B12 are known. One brand of nutritional yeast, Red Star T-6635+, has been tested and shown to contain active vitamin B12. This brand of yeast is often labeled as Vegetar-ian Support Formula with or without T-6635+ in parentheses following this new name. It is a reliable source of vitamin B12. Nutritional yeast, Saccharomyces cerevisiae, is a food yeast, grown on a molasses solution, which comes as yellow flakes or powder. It has a cheesy taste. Nutritional yeast is different from brewer's yeast or torula yeast. It can often be used by those sensitive to other yeasts.
The RDA (which includes a safety factor) for adults for vitamin B12 is 2.4 micrograms daily [4]. 2.4 micrograms of vitamin B12 are provided by a little less than 1 Tablespoon of Vegetarian Support Formula (Red Star T-6635+) nutritional yeast. A number of the recipes in this book contain nutritional yeast.
Another source of vitamin B12 is fortified cereal. We recommend checking the label of your favorite cereal since manufacturers have been known to stop including vitamin B12.
Other sources of vitamin B12 are vitamin B12-fortified soy milk, vitamin B12-fortified meat analogues (food made from wheat gluten or soybeans to resemble meat, poultry or fish), and vitamin B12 supplements. There are vitamin supplements which do not contain animal products.
Vegans who choose to use a vitamin B12 supplement, either as a single supplement or in a multi-vitamin should use supplements at least several times a week. Even though a supplement may contain many times the recom-mended level of vitamin B12, when vitamin B12 intake is high, not as much appears to be absorbed. This means in order to meet your needs, you should take the vitamin several times a week.
Tempeh, miso, and sea vegetables often are reported to have large amounts of vitamin B12. These products, however, are not reliable sources of the vita-min because the amount of vitamin B12 present depends on the type of processing the food undergoes [1, 5]. The standard method for measuring vitamin B12 in foods measures both active and inactive forms of vitamin B12. The inactive form (also called analogues) actually interferes with normal vita-min B12 absorption and metabolism [1, 6]. Fermented foods and sea vege-tables may contain more inactive than active vitamin B12.
Some vitamin B12 appears to be found in organically grown plants, but in extremely small amounts. According to one study [7,8], more than 23 cups of organically grown spinach would have to be eaten every day in order to meet the adult RDA for vitamin B12. Produce cannot be depended on as a reliable vitamin B12 source because the level of vitamin B12 in plants varies widely depending on the type of plant and the soil in which it is grown. Also, vitamin B12 analogues may be found in soil and absorbed by plants. If these ana-logues are present, they could either interfere with the plants uptake of vitamin B12 or with the usefulness of the plant's vitamin B12 for humans.
Fortified soy milk for me.
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Re:Vegetarians
I'm sorry, but this just made me laugh my ass off...
The rich flavors of the vegetarian world are light-years ahead of the hunk of meat at your local butcher.
Gather all the professional chefs in the world, and for the heck of it include the amateurs as well, and I would find it hard to believe that even 1% would agree with what you said. Not that there aren't fine tasting vegetarian meals, but your downplay of the use of meat in meals it utterly ridiculous, although somewhat amusing.
Not to mention that if you try to use quasi-artificial vegetarian ingredients, vege meals will have that 'processed' taste to it. I'm talking about stuff that you can't just walk out into your garden and pick up to make a meal, ya know - all the various tomatoes, pickles, squashes, beets, onions, beans, etc. You can make some good side dishes out of that stuff for a meal with meat at its heart.
My point wasn't that vegetarians are doomed to die by time they're 20, or that they would be grapsing for their life in some sort of death struggle as they eat vegetarian meals, I know many people who try to stay vegetarian and they aren't dropping dead like flies. My point was that I have read various blurbs in scientific books are journals that describe the meat eating characteristics of the human body. Check this out for a short and sweet overview of the vegetarian/omnivore argument. If you actually take the time (or remember from HS or College) to study the digestive system of humans, you'll notice a lot of mechanisms with the specific task of digesting meat. What sense would it make to have these mechanisms so prevalently in place and not use them? It would be like a bird with wings that wouldn't fly... hundreds (thousands, tens of thousands?) of species of birds can fly... the penguin can't fly (well, through the air at least)... I don't think humans are the penguin of the hominines subfamily of the animal kingdom.
As well, I'm not saying that one should stay away from any plant matter, it's fine to eat salads, fruit bowls, vegetables, etc... in fact encouranged, because some of these plant materials provide nutrients (outside of the plant cells) that are good for you. What I am saying though is that people who try to argue that eating meat will kill you (while not being poised or whatnot), is some sort of disgusting habit, or will be the demise of us all are completely off their rockers, and it would do them some good to take down some BBQ ribs or a nice glazed honey ham (which I'm sure you can't find a good vegetarian equivalent for either of, and don't even try to say BBQ ribs taste like crap, cause you sir would be out of your mind). -
Re:PostModern Casserole
"how can putting living creatures (yeast) into a dish allow it to stay vegan?"
Well, (A), nutritional yeast is not alive, and (B) it isn't a creature (animal), it's a fungus. Vegans have no problem with eating plants, fungus, or bacteria -- it's just members of the animal kingdom that we have issues with.
Nutritional yeast has been killed and doesn't have any leavening power. It's actually quite tasty, with a sweet nutty, or a cheesy kind of flavor. I use it ground up with blanched almonds, in a shaker, to top pasta and pizza where others might use Parmesan cheese. One part sliced blanched almonds, food-process until ground, add two parts nutritional yeast and a pinch of salt.
More info at:
Types of Yeast and Red Star brand propaganda
Brewer's Yeast is different from nutritional yeast apparently. But it's allegedly the same species as well (Saccharomyces cerevisiae). Prepared differently? I don't know.
Saccharomyces Genome Database. It turns out this yeast is "clearly the most ideal eukaryotic microorganism for biological studies. The 'awesome power of yeast genetics' has become legendary and is the envy of those who work with higher eukaryotes." Delicious.
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Re:Food for thought...
The url http://www.vrg.org/nutrition/b12.htm#reliable is filled with suggestions for how earth-bound vegans can add vit-B12 to their diets.
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Re:Are you kidding? (OT)We have neither the sharpened teeth nor the intestinal infrastructure necessary to be meat eaters.
Really? I mean, really really? If we are herbivores, then, why the heck don't we have fermenting vats in our stomachs? Last I checked, humans were omnivores, a type of animal that is biologically equipped to eat both plants and animals. Omnivores. Yes, we're not carnivores; for crying out loud, though, we're certainly not herbivores. Stating such is pure rhetoric, and whatever scientific evidence is used to back said rhetoric is carefully picked from context, massaged, and paraphrased so as to conform to the ideological goal rather than actually prove it. The Vegitarian Resource Group has a good short article posted here that goes into a bit more depth on the science of the matter.
Besides, my point wasn't one of material necessity but of moral obligation. You don't *need* to eat meat; therefore, you *ought* not eat meat.
Much like how since we don't *need* to have premarital sex, we *ought* not have premarital sex, no? Your morality != my morality. I, for one, happen to really, really like things like Tandoori Chicken and Beef Bourguignon. You'll have to pry my fork out of my cold, dead hands before I'll stop eating such things. I also maintain a diet high in veggies, since I know that eating veggies is healthy for me, and while I do enjoy eating meat, I do so in moderation, since I know that eating too much can be bad for my health (much like the glass of wine I have with dinner.)
How, though, do you see killing and eating one form of life as opposed to killing an eating another form of life as being more or less just or moral? For non photo-synthetic lifeforms here on earth, it is NECESSARY to kill and consume other life forms to survive. Killing and consuming plants still involves the premature termination of a living creature for the sake of your continued survival (unless, of course, you only eat plants that have died of natural causes after completing their entire life cycle, which I doubt that is the case.) If your morality dictates that you should not eat animals because their life is more valuable than that of plants, I understand and respect your views, even if I do not share them; it certainly is much easier to ignore the fact that you're stealing the life of something else to continue your own when it doesn't flee, thrash, and bleed when killed. But don't expect me to feel the least bit guilty or morally depraved for eating meat; my life is built entirely off the sacrifice of countless other lives, both plant and animal, and I can accept that fact without remorse.