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Many states have certified online colleges for people who work at affordable costs, around 5-6K per year.

Clearly affordable and easy to pay off, and geared at careers needing people.

Western Governours College has degrees in IT/Tech, teaching, healthcare, business and even offer masters degrees.
https://www.wgu.edu/washington...

> So you're just gonna leave out the previous $40,000+ for the undergrad degree

https://www.wgu.edu/financial-...

Average cost of $15,000 minus $3,000 tax credit = $12,00

Want to dig some more, or maybe now you know that some of us found a way to a six-figure salary without any student loan debt at all, you could consider that you could do the same. You could trade in your excuses for a $100,000 / year X 10 years = $1 million. Which would you rather have, a million dollars, or your excuse? Your choice.

While looking at debt of college, ignores the reason for the high costs. Colleges have been raising tuition prices because they know you will qualify for the loan and the loan will be repaid. There is a reason the borrowing has sky rocketed up to 1.3 trillion dollars, colleges are making buckets of money.

An example of alternatives, WGU Governors college was created to provide degrees for working people at a real affordable cost. Most people can buy a 40K car on a 6 year loan, but a 400k school loan, thats stupidly expensive.

The running joke is colleges are now just hedge funds with a college attached. And the money isn't used to lower tuition.

Selling free college is a scam the universities want, they think they will get paid at the same high price, just moving the cost to the government. (aka us the tax payers....)

I didn't even mention the money the sports teams are making also.

Jealous much?

Here, try this. It may help.http://www.wgu.edu/

TL;DR: You're jealous; try getting off your butt and educating yourself.

Yes, Sartre, we are fully aware that we can always choose to kill ourselves.

Or less hyperbolistically, we can always choose a worse path, like spending another 4 years and the retirement savings to get schooled in a job that pays half as much. Anyone can do that. Show me a better choice.

I can only surmise that you were not speaking to the morality of the choice and by worse you mean less profitable, and by better you mean more profitable.

So as asked, this may be an option that does not require 4 years, a retirement account, and likely will pay better than half as much. You won't even be forced to write high grade malicious code. By some accounts this could be a better choice.

I don't know who makes these decisions for you, but they may force you to attend WGU depending on how much your making now. Or perhaps you make these choices yourself and this was just hyperbole?

FWIW, I sympathize with your plight. The "I have rich parents, but they disowned me, so now I can't afford education" situation really does suck, and there appears to be no desire by anyone to fix it. I assume this is to prevent people who don't need aid from structuring their lives to get it anyway, but that's cold comfort to someone in your situation.

Have you considered trying somewhere like Western Governor's University? It's not a diploma mill, and if you can self educate on top of what you're learning, you can seriously cut your costs down by accelerating your program.

In-person back-and-forth interaction with the teacher is faster than online interaction. But one advantage of online over in-person is that you can ask questions any time, not just during the teacher's office hours.

In an ed2go.com class, you can discuss the homework online, but not the test questions. You can post your code online, and the teacher (and sometimes a student) will tell you what your mistake was. I've taken lots of classes from them. I was happy with most (not all) of my class's teachers.

I graduated from Western Governors University last year and got my master's degree. Everything was online, with the exception of the graduation party.

Teachers were just a phone call or e-mail away. And because they did not have to attend any classes either, they were usually *always* available. Some of them even in the weekends (since that's when most people study, next to their daytime jobs) until the late hours.

I did a two year program in less than 18 months. Try that with your traditional on-campus university.

Everyone has their place in life and society and everyone should be equally **VALUED** and not be put down by assholes like you with an ego problem.

Two things. Number one, ego has nothing to do with it. In fact, if anything, I have quite the opposite.

Number two, we're now debating "value". I read it as a monetary statement, meaning that they want the same pay. If you want to take a more altruistic approach then I can only agree with you. Every life is of equally value, and everyone should be able to make a decent living. And that is exactly what I wrote.

My point is simply that greater efforts and success deserve a greater reward. That's what it all boils down to. If Peter gives up his software engineering job to be an unskilled construction worker, that is his choice but he should also accept the lower paycheck. If your EE buddy chooses to work as a burger flipper because he enjoys that more: go ahead, but don't complain about a $10/hr wage.

And I'll let you in on a little secret: I dropped out of high school as well. It was not until I was 21 that I realized that I wouldn't get far without an education. So I want back to college at nighttime next to a full time job at a factory, and earned my Bachelor's. I got into tech and moved to Norcal, and got my Master's degree (again nighttime/weekend studies) last year. I worked very hard and made lots of sacrifices to get where I am today. And it pisses me off to a unimaginable levels that others demand the same level of compensation without doing anything to earn it.

I directly report to an SVP of my age. Sure I'd love to have the same responsibilities and pay. But I know I will be working very hard for another 10 years, at a minimum, before I'll be able to reach that level. He also worked very hard to get where he is and he earned it all the way by making the right choices and sacrifices.

These days, you can get a Bachelor's degree for as little as $12k, and ever for half of it if you are quick enough. Without going to class, at your own pace. TFA mentions a bus driver doing nothing for 7 hours a day. He would get his degree in as little as 18 months if he would spend that time studying.

Being poor is no longer an excuse. Being a minority is no longer an excuse. Having dropped out of high school is no longer an excuse. You want something, you earn it, don't demand it.

On a side note, there are professions that are grossly underpaid. Examples are teachers, nurses, and other healthcare workers who are expected to have a decent education but get barely enough money to drive a car. These are the type of people that should be earning $30 instead of the $12-15 they're getting right now.

WGU looks like a decent deal. How are they with the computer science fundamentals or are they just a code school?

The curriculum really looks like a glorified "code school", but at least they're affordably priced. For someone who just wants the bach to get past the HR filter, I imagine it could be decent, but I do worry if they're skimping on algorithms/design to focus on a certs based degree. I admit that for some, that's all that's necessary.

WGU is essentially a vocational school that is accredited to award bachelor's and master's degrees - which, as you say, is what many people need. Most of their IT degrees do not cover any computer science to speak of, and they don't pretend to. Their degrees are "Bachelor's of Science in Information Technology" with various concentrations - network administration, network design and management, security, etc.

WGU hasn't released the program guide for their new "software development" degree yet, but their current "Software concentration" degree is very light on theory, and contains several practical IT certifications. I expect the software development degree will be a variant of this.

You're just not going to get a strong "computer science" degree at a cheap online school. In my opinion this isn't much of an issue, since most IT career paths really just require a vocational education anyway. Most people don't really care about CS theory (and most don't really need to) - they just want skills that are applicable to a job.

WGU looks like a decent deal. How are they with the computer science fundamentals or are they just a code school?

The curriculum really looks like a glorified "code school", but at least they're affordably priced. For someone who just wants the bach to get past the HR filter, I imagine it could be decent, but I do worry if they're skimping on algorithms/design to focus on a certs based degree. I admit that for some, that's all that's necessary.

WGU is essentially a vocational school that is accredited to award bachelor's and master's degrees - which, as you say, is what many people need. Most of their IT degrees do not cover any computer science to speak of, and they don't pretend to. Their degrees are "Bachelor's of Science in Information Technology" with various concentrations - network administration, network design and management, security, etc.

WGU hasn't released the program guide for their new "software development" degree yet, but their current "Software concentration" degree is very light on theory, and contains several practical IT certifications. I expect the software development degree will be a variant of this.

You're just not going to get a strong "computer science" degree at a cheap online school. In my opinion this isn't much of an issue, since most IT career paths really just require a vocational education anyway. Most people don't really care about CS theory (and most don't really need to) - they just want skills that are applicable to a job.

There is a way to get a bachelor's degree from a state university, and a bunch of well-known certifications at the same time, for only a few thousand dollars. I'm sort of doing what I'm about to describe, though I could have saved myself more money by planning ahead. I did earn six college credits this week, though, which cost me about $100.
Western Governor's University ( http://wgu.edu/ ) has IT programs in which most of computer related classes are based on passing a test.
Specifically, they use industry recognized certification tests from COMPTIA, Microsoft, etc. So passing one of these tests gets you both course credit and a certification.

At WGU, you don't pay per-class. Instead, tuition covers a six-month time semester. You can take and pass 20 classes if you want to. That allows for the following strategy:

Look at the list of certifications that make up a specific degree.
Study for those certifications using Professor Messer or other free resources.
When you're ready to take six certifications, register for WGU.
Take those six tests in the first two weeks of the term (24-32 college credits).
Take non-certification tests like Math, which I just took after a couple of days of study (6 college credits).
Begin studying for the next set and get those done in the remaining five months. (12 college credits).

In that way, you will have earned 48 college credits and received several certifications, while paying only $2,800 for the term.
Depending on your level of pre-existing knowledge and the amount of time you put in, you might well be able to complete a BS or BA in 18-24 months, paying $8,400 for your degree and certifications.

WGU is an accredited university founded by 19 governors that is considered a state university in many states. I just now took my math final on my lunch break, sitting at my desk at work. They use a webcam for proctoring to make sure I'm not cheating. It took me maybe three hours of study and one hour testing to pass the math class, which is 3 credits.

Western Governor's University and Excelsior (both non-profit) are the best online options, especially if you want self-paced. They are both very cost-effective and regionally accredited. You should check out the details of the programs that each offers to see if they provide what you want. I know WGU's IT programs are very solid, but I'm not sure about their software development options. I know they just recently added a Software Development concentration option for a Bachelor's degree, but the program guide hasn't been posted yet so I'm not sure of the exact courses offered.

If you end up getting your bachelor's, Georgia Tech now offers their well-respected MS in CS degree online. The admissions requirements are stricter than the online-only schools, but not too onerous.

If you don't really want a degree, but would like some formal training, Stanford and MIT both have strong no-credit open course ware offerings - they also have paid-for online certificate programs.

http://www.wgu.edu/

Solid course material. Industry standard certs tied to the courses as finals, and fully accredited.

There is a way to get a degree from real world experience. It is called a Regent's Degree. Most if not all universities offer them.

Most universities do not offer Regent's Degrees...

I had never heard the term "Regent's Degree" until now, though I am familiar with the 'experience for credits' degree model (rarely offered by legitimate institutions) so I did some quick poking around...

Wikipedia doesn't seem to have any information on the term.

It does seem that the US state of West Virginia has an initiative called "RBA Today" where several universities (Marshall, WVU, Western Liberty, Shepard's, etc.) there are offering RBA (Regents Bachelor of Arts) degrees that do give some credits for experience. This program seems to be primarily limited to West Virginia.

Also, some traditional colleges seem to offer what is called a "Regent's Bachelor of Arts" degree. However, some of these seem to be more like custom degrees, where the student has to hit a certain number of credits but they have more (perhaps complete?) flexibility in which classes they actually take. The student is still required to take classes and accrue a certain number of credit hours in order to obtain the degree. These degrees seem to be offered for students whose degree of choice is not offered at the institution.

There are also some legitimate, accredited institutions that offer bachelors and masters degrees through various unconventional models. For example, Western Governors University has a peculiar credit system and allows students to complete courses at their own pace. Students who are already experienced in their field can complete courses very quickly, by just taking the required assessments to pass the classes. They also accept certain third-party industry certifications in lieu of certain courses (since obtaining the certification is actually part of the course). This particular institution is regionally accredited.

I advise anyone looking for a degree to be very careful with "non-traditional" schools and programs. Do your research, and remember if it sounds too good to be true, it probably is.

A variant of [1] that is being actively pursued at a number of institutions is specialization. Random example: Classics. It is very expensive to maintain a Classics department. There are few grants and other moneymaking opportunities outside of pure tuition. Some schools are saying they'll offer classics and other schools will subscribe to their curriculum. The remote students will utilize online learning to participate with professors at the supporting institution. Tuition for the remote students is typically less but it will still net more dollars for the subscribing institution.

Cutting pay: Colleges seldom use straight-up pay cuts. What they do is eliminate tenured positions via attrition and have both higher adjunct/faculty and student/instructor ratios. They can usually make up for it by offering more tutoring, which is relatively cheap.

Have you looked at the Western Governors model? For the self-motivated student who 1) doesn't need collegiate networking and 2) wants a real degree (not some University of Phoenix garbage or untrustworthy opencourseware-y start-up product), it is a good and inexpensive option.

Cheers,
-l

Western Governor's University basically does this, in that they rely on you taking & passing industry-standard certification tests in order to progress in their IT fields. However, there are a number of other "normal" classes with papers and whatnot to submit. They're properly accredited and will get you a real bachelor's degree, but they're generally thought of as a degree mill.

The accreditation would work like WGU's IT degrees. The degree will include a bunch of certification exams from trusted vendors.

Try WGU.edu It is inexpensive, uses the same online classes as the more expensive online/physical schools, and allows you to test out of classes you may already have enough experience in that it would be moot to sit through the class. The chat & forum tools were equally bad as most other schools. But, I was able to live with them. It was the ability to take the final as soon as you thought you were ready that made it a good fit. Even if that was on day 1 of the class.

If you're good at learning on your own, you can get an M.Sc. from WGU for ~15k$ ( http://www.wgu.edu/online_it_degrees/information_security_assurance_degree ).

I like that. Tackle the problem. Frankly... all the whiners who just went to college for the parties and barely passed can rot in their dept-hole as far as I care. If you're worth what your mouth claims it is, then you'll pay off any college debt in a few years and in 4-5 have made enough $$$ to come out ahead compared to working minimum wage.

So finding ways to make this PRIVILEGE affordable is really a better approach than whining. For those who like the government paying for everything remember that in 10-15 years you come out behind again because of higher tax rates... the more work the government does FOR its citizens the more is wasted on bureaucracy.

Other possibilities to reduce costs include treating all students equally - granting scholarships based on performance, not ethnicity, gender, income. For example, my wife got a sweet scholarship for being a woman in engineering. Good for the both of us, but sucks for everyone else who has to pay her bill. How about a friend of mine who got grants for low income - because he didn't WANT to work. Those who spend 20-40 hours a week at a job making money to pay the tuition themselves get docked for trying - that's backwards.

And just to let people know, there is a MUCH cheaper alternative out there now. Granted, it's not a well-known university and I personally feel it's too easy on it's students, but it IS fully accredited and VERY affordable:
Reply if you want to hear more about this university.

Presently, I am employed as a Substitute Teacher while working on my Bachelor of Arts in Mathematics (5-12) with a teaching licensure at Western Governors University @ http://www.wgu.edu/. My education at WGU will make me a highly qualified Math teacher upon graduation and I will be able to teach from Grades 5 through 12. WGU's courses are all COMPETENCY based, which means that I have to have a grade of B (3.00) or better to receive a PASS on my transcript. I don't have the luxury of sitting in a classroom to receive Cs and Ds, just for being in class like a lump on a log. Here are the Math courses I have to take (14 different subject areas in all): Mathematics Content (5-12) Part I: Precalculus, Calculus I, Calculus II, Discrete Mathematics Mathematics Content (5-12) Part II: Calculus III, Analysis, Probability, Statistics Mathematics Content (5-12) Part III: College Algebra, Linear Algebra, Abstract Algebra Mathematics Content (5-12) Part IV: Euclidean Geometry, Non-Euclidean Geometry, Abstract Algebra As you can see there are a lot of Math courses that I have to take to be highly qualified to teach Mathematics in middle/high school. I also have to take many Math specific teaching courses and other courses to round out my education. The end result will be a COMPETENT teacher in the classroom. I will be working as a Substitute Teacher for two years before I graduate, so I will gain some very valuable classroom experience until then. Tell me... Why shouldn't I get more pay than someone that took Basket Weaving 101 at university? I also have a degree as a Computer Analyst/Programmer. To have a Math teacher that is gifted with computer knowledge is very hard to find (from what I have seen). I do think I deserve more pay, and I am going to demand it when I graduate. In fact, I can because of the persistent Mathematics teacher shortage. I can pretty well go anywhere in the USA or Canada (where I am from) and get the position I want. After my first year of teaching, I am going to start either the Master of Arts Mathematics Education (K-6, 5-9, or 5-12) OR the Master of Education - Learning and Technology program at WGU. Most likely, I will choose to do the latter since I am an advocate of using more technology in the classroom. The biggest problems in the classroom, from my work as a Substitute Teacher, are: 1. Students thinking it is OK to disrespect a teacher 2. Parents not giving a damn about their child's education (really sad) Until you solve these two problems, nothing will ever change in the public school system. Teachers have to be shown respect or else classroom management is quite difficult at best. I have observed many things students do in class to try a teacher's patience - I am glad I am seeing all of this crap before I graduate. I was subbing in one Math class last month. In one of the Algebra 2 classes, a student pulls out a portable DVD player and proceeds to watch a movie in class. I told him to put it away - he just ignored me. He turned off the sound and put on the close captioning. Now that is a total lack of respect for me as a teacher. If I did that when I was in school, my ass would have been beaten by my parents when I got home, just for disrespecting the teacher. I just found out I have the authority to confiscate such items and send them immediately to the office if the student causes me furthter problems. One of the biggest problems in the classroom is the presence of the Apple iPod or cell phones. Students think they have the right to listen to music or play with their cell phone while I am teaching important Mathematics concepts - they want to be bloody entertained. Unbelievable! Now, I warn all of my classes at the beginning... If I see a cell phone or iPod, I take it away from the student. Simple! The most important thing I have learned so far from being a Substitute Teacher - you have to take control of the class at the very beginning or the students will proceed to walk all over you. I had one class do that to me - NEVER AGAIN. Let's just say I felt

First off, good luck on the transition. I performed the same transition at the end of 2001. I left the Marines after 9 years of service and began looking for jobs in the civlian market. Since that time I have found that politics plays an important role in every business. no business is based solely on merit alone, at least none I have ever worked for. initially it was tough securing a position to which my skills applied, you learn so much through experience alone in the military, and the formal education you have simply doesn't cover it all. The best advice I can give is to quickly grab a bacchelors degree from a university and go with it. Schools like http://wgu.edu/ should help you a lot since they are comeptency based and not class attendance based. Once you've gotten that degree many more doors will simply open you will be amazed. I have found the civilian market doesnt value military education as highly as it values its civilian counterpart. It is up to you to translate how those things do apply to the career your looking for and to integrate them into your resume so they are easily seen and that they get the attention they deserve. This was probably the single hardest thing for me, was making it all translate to something the average HR person would understand when they gave my resume that 15 seconds before moving to the next. Once I got the hang of that I havent been out of work since and have secured some very good positions. Look for jobs in the Middle East, currently the job market in Iraq is booming with contractors, and they value good IT experience. Some of the highest paid positions are over here. Use your experience to grab a few certifications, if your a router / switch guy, start with the CCNa and move to the CCNP, if your a sys admin guy, grab the MCSE or the certs for linux. these have also been good in getting my resume a second look. I have found that once i got the degree and grabbed the certs, I more times than not, have at least been in the final running for the positions I have sought out.

The AP tests are decent, but it's been my experience that taking a CLEP test is easier, faster, less expensive _and_ tends to get your more college credit for the same amount of knowledge.

The next best thing is taking classes to fill up your "full-time" requirements of a certain number of units per semester and then testing out (by taking the final and passing) of the classes you already know. Many on Slashdot could probably get a lot of CS classes passed that way, for example. Those credits count towards "in residence" requirements as well. (The colleges want those tuition bucks, they don't care if you had to go to the class or not as long as you paid them for it.)

AP tests are probably the third best way, but not as useful as the above. I took and passed AP English (5) and AP U.S. History (4) in H.S. and got a lot more credits out of their CLEP counterparts.

Also, if you are good at tests and already fairly knowledgeable, check out Western Governors University, a fully accredited University that does all classes via certified testing. That means if you know your stuff you could pay for one sememster and then test out of a four-year or master's degree. Difficult, but possible.

I had the same comment hit home to me and am also considering grabbing another piece of paper to hang on the wall and list on a resume.

However, I think I've hit on the "solution". It's Western Governors University, which is fully regionally accredited and does competency based classes.

In other words, if you already know it or want to learn it from a book or doing it, you can then just take a test and get the credit.

Reviewing the requirements, I figure I can handle one semester of tuition to learn the two or three things that I don't already know in their program and graduate.

I disagree with several of your points, which are quite similar to lots of current professors/instructors who either don't understand teaching online or are scared of it. [Background: I'm just completing my masters online from Western Governors University in Learning and Technology, which focuses on using technology as a tool to learn.]

I infer that your central point is that you need face-to-face, real-time experiences to have an effective education. My point is that, done right (and it often isn't), online education can be as effective or more effective. I'll ignore your point that posting material and reading, online or off, is research and not really education, because that doesn't make sense to me; research really is considered education to the vast majority of academia.

Now, point by point:

Education is supposed to be a much more immersive experience, in which your entire world is focused upon whatever subjects your [sic] learning for certain spans of time. From the chalk-board to the many students to the profesor [sic] and all the hands on materials along with real hands on lab projects you can show to your fellow classmates and teachers in TRUE real-time.

Sometimes I was immersed in my meat-space school, but often I just wanted to get emmersed and back to something fun. I have found that with many of my online courses, which I could take asynchronously, let me focus my attention when I was in the mood, or wanted to. That was much more liberating to me, and my education was more effective as a result.

Your point about being in TRUE real-time maybe holds water for teaching psychomotor skills (I don't think online pottery classes would work very well), but in most cases that doesn't matter for many students, according to their learning style. (Online learning is not for everyone, and most online courses give proper warning that if you crave face-to-face learning you might regret it.)

When your [sic] simply posting and returning data from a web-page, and reading material be it online or off... you are not recieving [sic] an education, you are paying for the right to research and to attain a degree from it.

How is this not receiving an education? The way you say it, I don't see much difference between what you describe and cramming material the night before an exam to regurgitate it and take the grade. One of the strengths I've seen in my courses has been the online interactivity. I've been amazed that the course discussion online is much more robust and inclusive than in meat-space. The shy student who never talks in class CAN get a word in edge-wise online. The guy in the front who monopolizes the discussion by shouting the first thing that comes to his mind WON'T monopolize online discussions and can be easily ignored. For me, that's worth the money right there.

There are reasons why test taking is done in a class without access to the net and other such things. It is because you are supposed to test the actual mind and skills of a human without those resources at hand. This enables you to learn what you DONT [sic] know and to sharpen those skillsets.

I'm inferring that your point is you can cheat during online tests. When I've taken tests, it's been in a proctored environment where they monitor if you're surfing, etc. I've also had open-Web tests that are timed, so if you don't know the material it's easy to see because you're spending too much time Googling for the answer.

More importantly, though, is the idea of portfolio assessments, which tests the actual mind and skills of a human. For each area I studied, I had to actually use what I learned in a performance environment, and I was graded according to how well I did. This is easy

You mean like Western Governors University?