Slashdot Mirror
Grade School And High School, School Free
shadowlight1 writes: "This CNet article discusses a complete virtual classroom environment under development over the 'net. It would be especially geared towards the developmentally disabled." The venture this story focuses on is called K12 -- and it's for profit. (You may be surprized by it's spokesman / backer here.) The story also touches on other online education efforts, though, some of which blend well with what homeschoolers have been doing for many years.
.. They'll just go about it a different way:
iCQ UH-OH Sound "Hey, geek, PayPal me your lunch money, or I'll packet your webserver back to the stone age!"
------------
CitizenC
Just give more money to the public school system, improve the quality of teaching from k12 to college (introduce computer science or coding ?) and you'll have better results !
Non-virtual schools haven't been able to keep corporations out, with crap like Channel One and the like. You just know that a virtual school would have plenty of targeted advertising forced on the kiddies.
-- dR.fuZZo
Just give more money to the public school system ..
I hope you're joking. Have you seen American test score results lately? Public schools are a disaster. Furthermore, there is a very real case to be made that public funding for education is unconstitutional. Public schools are not so much centers of learning as they are centers of indoctrination into all sorts of unsavory things that concerned parents do not want their children exposed to (sex education, evolution, etc.)
If America's educational system is to be saved, we must get the government out of it. Children are better served by sending them to parochial/religious schools or independent private schools run by competent education professionals. Corporate America does nearly everything better than the federal government; there is no reason to assume that education would be any different. Children would be far better off in modern, high-tech corporate schools than they are in the festering cesspools that our current "public" schools are.
Without teacher and peers present, who's going to stop all these kids from eating paste?!
...what would happen if this e-school, for want of a better word, were to fail?
A school like this surely can't have masses of targeted advertising (and if they did, there'd be an outcry from privacy and parent groups), so where is the funding coming from?
Assuming it does get up and running - what if it fails? You have quite a lot of pupils suddenly out of school, some with disabilities and with no other option than an expensive home tutor.
To me, this just sounds... too risky.
A significant bonus to 'online schooling is the fact that it could be used by and for people who otherwise would slip through the cracks. This includes children of people who are 'homeless' either in a real sense, or just have to move from city to city due to legal problems. Children of divorced parents who have 'joint custody' in different cities are a good example. Foster children are another. A consistent online 'classroom' to learn in could be an island of stability and growth for them in an otherwise harsh world.
Another section of the population to consider are the children of migrant workers. Many are ignored by uncaring, understaffed or simply prejudiced school districts. Even if they had to go from public library to public libary to access their 'homeroom', it would still be heads and above any other kind of education they manage to eek out.
The next Slashdot story will be ready soon, but subscribers can beat the rush and slashdot the links early!
Seriously,
I know a few homeschoolers in Rochester, and a few parents who wanted to but were too depressed/stoned to attmempt it, and I've noticed that parents of homeschoolers usually have such severe personality defects that public schools were traumatic for them.
So, rather than hope their children will do better than them in public schools and not become such social misfits, they keep them home. Have you ever seen an 8 year boy who has more social interaction with his psychotic mother than his peers? It's not pretty.
Of course, there are valid reasons for home schooling, particulary those of Christian persuasion who are disgusted with the secular humanism forced down their throats, but for most kids, they need more interaction with their peers and less with computers.
Spending on education has gone up severalfold in real dollars since 1950 while math and reading test scores have been flat. Kansas City was forced by a judge to spend billions on its school system, and produced educational palaces. Result: no improvement on test scores. Simply tossing more bales of money on the fire isn't a solution; bring in market forces if you want to see improvement.
I agree with you in that we should put more money into the public school system, but the problem remains that as technology becomes more apart of our lives, we should include it in education. That's why some colleges have included laptop computers as a part of tution. Now I'm not quite sure if this for-profit school is the best answer, but we'll never know unless someone tries.
Project: To Take Over The World
Project: To Take Over The World
Plan: To Rule The World
----
Because of the resource expense and the distraction in the classroom, many schools separate "special" students from mainstream education, which, for purposes of instruction, makes the education process easier.
The problem is that this impairs these students' abilities to functionally interact with other people. Teaching adults that have been separated all their lives to function in "normal" society is nearly impossible, so some of these people become more of a burden than they would have been if schooling were looked at as an experience instead of just an instructional process.
Most of the other 20% is spent learning the basics. Reading, math, science.
I don't mean to sound like an uptight right-winger (I'm not at all) -- but these really were the things school time was spent on the most. If we spent time being indoctrinated about how good smoking is and how men rule the world and how corporate america is god, I would be complaining about that, too.
My point being, indoctrination and propoganda can be presented through video just as well as live in a physical classroom.
---
seumas.com
I think it's a cool idea. I know some people that home-school right now, this kind of thing should help them out. It also gives me a chance to catch up on my math skills from 9th grade, which I was to stoned to really understand back then. :)
Dive Gear
--- Think of it as evolution in action ---
The one thing that concerns me, and this should be seperate from the issue of electronic schooling for disabled children, is the lack of interaction that goes on between students if a digital curriculum loses focus on the social nature of human existence.
Children need to run and play and not spend too much time in front of devices that don't help their neurons expand and create new connections. How come we don't see more music training in schools, which is one of the great neuron stimulators and has effects on mathematical ability for starters. I think a lot of questions need to be asked, and when education becomes cause for profit... who are we selling? Our children?
Just thinking.
Yoink
That reminds me of the movie "Class of 2000" where robots teach a class of students. However that was for a different reason....
CBT and web based training is already popular. However they don't provide what a young student requires the most.... personal touch, interaction, and pressure.
As it is most of the people here are geek already... without being taught by a bot. I hate to think what the next generation of geeks would look like who may not even know what a school-friend means....
You know you are geek when you have 23 friends... 22 of which are from IRC, and the last one is your UPS delivery agent whom you meet every other day.
rkt
Man, without shitty highschool experiences, where would the crop of angsty goth and industrial musicians be?!? In twenty years we'd have nothing but happy shiny crappy whiny oops-I-fucked-up-again music from the mutant prozac-gobbling offspring of Britany Spears and NSuck.
Like Trent Reznor said, "I could go to therapy but it might ruin my musical career." :^)
--
News for Geeks in Austin, TX
The gap between public schools and their private counterparts is growing, and quite frankly, public schools are falling flat on their faces. Online schools solve the problem of educating the physically disabled by bringing education to *them*, as opposed to bussing them to a public school where they won't learn anything outside of sharing and being special, simply because they are placed in a class with mentally retarded students. Unfortunately, state and federal governments just don't *get* it. If the students aren't succeeding, maybe we should pour more money in, build more ramps, etc. Maybe if they would realize that the physically disabled aren't the same as total wackos and retards, the physically disabled would do better in school. But no. So I'm glad to see someone making an effort to educate these kids. Now if only public schools would follow this example...
--
The World is Yours.
Offerings such as this (coupled with home schooling) can lead to greater and closer family bonds. Family members can support one-another during school and after school hours. There may be less pressure with this model and it could be safer for children. It could bring the traditional so-called "quality" of a private school into the comfort of one's own home.
Public schools, on the other hand, offer children a chance to enter a cultural melting pot (at least, my high school was) not available via the home-schooling model. Children interact with more people in a public school and can build strong social skills from the experience.
Sadly, this model may not be available to everyone. It has requirements ($2000/yr, a computer, and internet connectivity) not available to all families.
I suppose it's just like most things *shrug*. It has ups and downs.
-- Pyre
I was originally against this idea, but I thought of a few angles that have merit. I think there is an opportunity for something beyond the mindless "video-game spelling bee" crap that most educational packages are today. Problem is, I doubt the best content creators would go work for education software companies: I suspect the authors would recieve huge salaries from major entertainment companies (Disney, Time/Warner, Seagrams, etc.). So lets look at a few things...
Everyone had at least one or two teachers in highschool who were amazing, right? Teachers who kept you interested, even if you didn't particularly like the material, ja? For example, I hated history in highschool, and I had two teachers who I looked forward to seeing: one was a really funny guy, who made a joke out everything in the 19th century; the other was a complete babe who had every guy's attention, even during the most boring history lessons. Regardless, I learned quite a bit about a subject I didn't like b/c of who/how it was taught.
IMO, it was too bad that not every student in my school could have one of these two teachers. So this leads me to the idea of virtual content that has had mass appeal.
Look at the gaming world, especially well written I.F. games that aren't gib-centric (like FPS games, and hack/slash RPGs). I'm thinking Myst, Riven, Grim Fandango, Monkey Island, etc. These games had broad appeal to large audiences over a long period of time.
I think that if LucasArts put some its s/w and entertainment muscle behind teaching software, they could make some fairly compelling teaching packages. Based on the two teachers I mentioned above, I think there is potential for a killer education suite.
Obviously, this would be an enormous challenge because in reality, school really does need to be an 8-hour a day, 200 day a year venture. You can't learn fundamental concepts in a few weeks. The games I mentioned only take 20-100 hours of playtime, whereas school is 1600+ hours a year. That would be a whole-lotta content coding. However, it would only need to be done once every decade or so, and only the initial coding would be a beotch, updates would be easier.
Bottom line: probably any class (except a discussion class) could be converted into a compelling software package for online education. But to really make it something worthwhile, it would take a band of content-creation geniuses to make it happen, and I dont' think there are enough to go around right now.
---
https://www.accountkiller.com/removal-requested
If you are refering to why the test scores of the U.S. are so low compared to other countries especial countries like Korea and Japan, the answer is that these tests are not conducted equally. We in the U.S. test everyone up to the 12th grade. Meanwhile, in countries like Japan and Korea, they have yearly exams that determine not only the placement but advancedment of students. That is to say, they have exams each year and based on the test results, students are sent to schools ranking from A-1 to X-N (where X is a letter and N is a number and A-1 is the best school at that level and X-N is the worst). Additionally, students who "fail" the exam are put out of school. They don't continue. This ensures that only the best portion of their students are being tested especially those going onwards to college.
Also you've got to consider their methods of teaching. It's almost complete recital of facts and very little creative thinking. Classes are usually lecture types and most successful students usually go to supplemental instruction after school to relearn what the teacher taught that day. I suppose if we adopted such a harsh and tough school system we too could be on the top of the list as well.
Project: To Take Over The World
Project: To Take Over The World
Plan: To Rule The World
We're forgetting the most important aspect of school here - riding the school bus!
"I have never let my schooling interfere with my education." - Mark Twain
Parents even dial in for an online PTA meeting.
Yea, I can see it now:
*** Parent has jointed #PTAmeeting
Parent: Hi
Teacher: Hello, I am Dr. Sbaitso. I am here to help you...
This is a wonderful idea. Kinda.
I'm not a big fan of correspondence schools; the lack of socialization is killer. But there lies here a great opportunity for embarrassed adults to "go back" to high school.
Even those of you who hear the words "for-profit" and begin to write a check to Ralph Nader likely would not have much of a problem if the adult populace was educated in such a fashion. The good part about for-profit institutions, especially in this case, is that no one cares where the money comes from. I could make a $5k donation to the school (assuming I didn't have $4.21 in my wallet), a corporate sponsor could fund a virtual "wing", or students could pay the tuition. Who knows.
There are a good amount of people -- adults -- who would gain from this. That's why Sally Struthers has a job.
The public schools, where teachers get transferred to as a "disciplinary action" need to be shut down. If schools aren't teaching kids, yank their federal funding. Don't just keep pumping more money into a corrupted school and hope it gets better. Have private schools COMPETING for federal dollars. If they do well, they keep getting funds, if not they fail, and money goes to other successful schools. But **require** all money to come from the fed. No partial payment from student's parents. That way, schools remain tax payer funded but reap the benefits of competition.
I must admit I only did one quick search, found free school course links
but was curious where everyone else goes to learn? (ie howstuffworks.com, etc...)
Anyone know of better sites that have it all put together, preferably with professor type of input and quality and material kept current? It seems like the person who put together the above site took enough time to get links to the basic classes.
Having a non profit type page I think would be difficult to keep material up to date and for some courses it would be better to just have links to the horses mouth (ie java.sun.com for Java)
I like the idea even though it has its pitfalls ( example- less than perfect human interaction, although I think this will get better. If high speed multiple video connections were used, along with that smell box, course touch will have to wait for that full body sensory suit)
and promises eventually to offer lessons in all grades from math and science to arts and sex education.
The only ones there that seem revolutionary to me are math, science, and arts. And there have been online resources for those for about as long as there have been for the other.
Withdrawal before climax is very ineffective and those who try this are usually called "parents."
But kindergarten?
What are they going to do? Paste cutout construction paper apples to the monitor? Fingerpaints on the mouse?
And for nap time do we really want to teach them to fall asleep at the keyboard like we do at that age?
They get the funding from the $2000 a year you have to pay to use it... At least that's their plan.
And if they do fail, the student could just enroll in the local elementary school the next semester
ReadThe ReflectionEngine, a cyberpunk style n
The above is a great idea...except for one thing. Private, "charter," for-profit schools are certainly not going to help educate the disenfranchised, especially not online. Contrary to popular belief (and you can see a little evidence for it in the C-Net article where they mention the number of people with whom the child is interacting online), online education is often more capital-intensive, and expensive than classroom education.
l ;
h tml ;
c elearning.pdf (you will need a PDF reader for this one!);
Online education is definitely more labour-intensive for the teachers and the institutions, and has much higher maintenance costs than many people suspect. That's why, in a recent Chronicle of Higher Education Live Colloquy, Dr. David Noble suggested that most online education is really only for the rich, at least at this point.
For more information, see Hara & Kling on student frustration with technology
http://www.slis.indiana.edu/CSI/wp00-01.html
and LaRose, Gregg, & Eastin on "low-tech high-tech"
http://www.ascusc.org/jcmc/vol4/issue2/larose.htm
Mason on online education at http://www-iet.open.ac.uk/pp/r.d.mason/GlobalEdu.
Morgan on online learning economics at http://multimedia.marshall.edu/onlinecosts/distan
and Noble's famous and justifiably critical "Digital Diploma Mills" series -- One--The Automation of Higher Education, Two--The Coming Battle Over Online Instruction, Three--The Bloom Is Off The Rose, and Four--Rehearsal For the Revolution.
In any case, charter schools are just a bad idea whose time has come. They take money and authority away from the state, whose job it is to provide education and some sort of societal standard...which is why Canadian universities don't have entrance exams. Canadian schools are strictly enforced by a centralized, federal government, so school in one place is much like school in any other. Don't you wish you could say the same thing about US schools?
I'm not a geek, I'm just a clever script.
For a kid who has had problems going to a traditional school environment, the online school is an excellent way to stimulate his/her interest in learning and confidence in their selves. My younger brother had school problems at the traditional high school, so my parents put him in an online school. He goes to "class" online at set times each day, where he interacts in real time (teleconference style) with teachers and students. The teachers uses a virtual chalkboard which is displayed on the screen. Moreover, the students cannot distract each other, so a student can concentrate more on the teacher. Another plus is that fact that parents can sit in with their child in their classes, therefore making the parents more involved in the learning process. That is always a problem in traditional schools.
As for those of you cry that someone such as my brother is missing the social, face-to-face interaction, there are ways to compensate for some of that. My brother is allowed to participate in sports at the local high school, he still can go to dances, etc. as well. He obviously still has his friends in our neighborhood as well of course.
The bottom line is that if implemented correctly a online-charter school can be a boom to a kid's self-esteem and confidence in learning. The lessening of pressure on a kid is the key.
************
better bring the funk on a nasty dunk...have a take and don't suck!
Roblimo? Wouldn't a group of these students make a terrific Slashdot interview? I'd love to hear how well this does and doesn't work and what tech they'd need to make it more usable. Even if they're not pudgy or strange.
By the way, the comment about the risk of increased paste eating made my laugh so hard an Altoid flew into my sinus. Ouch.
Online education in beginner's schools is stupid idea, school boys and girls need more mentoring than just feeding with knowledge.
By the way, Physicon has a good distance learning system, take a look.
MSDOS: 20+ years without remote hole in the default install
It would be especially geared towards the developmentally disabled.
So, anyone in the American public education system should apply. A few years of that junk and anyone can become "developmentally disabled".
Geez. From all the belly-aching here, you'd think that selling education was a crime against humanity.
Haven't any of you people ever taken karate lessons, ballet lessons, music lessons, etc as kids? Haven't you attended computer camp or a G&T summer school? Haven't you ever learned a new language at an intensive language school or took (or worked at!) a test prep service?
If it's OK for me to hang out my shingle and take piano students at $30/half-hour, why on earth should it not be OK to run an entire school which charges per semester? Sheesh.
-*- Any technology indistinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced -*-
This reminds me of the current open learning situation. It won't work for a long, long time. I've been to many sites, made many searches for material provided so that I can learn remotely for a reasonable fee (and I'm not talking about computer-related stuff, necessarily). All I can find are behind-closed-doors trial programs from 3 years ago, or extremely platform-discriminatory software restrictions.
If we can't get the simple transfer of materials and tutor support right, how is this going to work?
If I'm wrong and there is a decent open learning program out there, I'd be interested to find a participant.
Trust me, I know what I am talking about. I have worked as a temporary teacher and a substitute teacher for a period of three years. We need discipline in the schools. The number of kids that are being raised to have no respect for authority, to the others that know that they don't have to do any work, so they don't; just exacerbate the current problem with schools. Then you get dipsh!t administrators and legislatures that don't know jack about how to run a school and tie everyone's hands so they can't teach. And finally you get stupid testing that decides the basis of funding so, the schools in the poorer sections of town get less funding because of, of course, naturally lower test scores. Then a vicious cycle starts up, where they have no money, and can't get any money to educate the kids, because education is going to cost money. Private schools are not the answer. The kids that go to private schools already come from well educated backgrounds and are going to do well weherever they are. If you were to throw in a bunch of the kids I had to teach into a private classroom, you would just end up with the same sort of situation as you get in public school, except that in a private school it is easier to get rid of the trouble makers. Show that there is a real penalty for acting out and disrupting class, and you will find in short order that one is able to teach the little rugrats.
Just a Tuna in the Sea of Life
Elections have little to do with accountability, because candidates espouse more than one view.
People who vote for candidate A likely do not believe everything candidate A does. In fact, you could find two people who rationally voted for the same candidate who do not agree 50% of the time. It is very, very rare that elections are decided "on the issues" for this very reason.
You imply something that bothers me, so I'll ask to be sure I am understanding correctly. Let's assume that there are two candidates running for the swing-vote on the local school boar. One of them wants to put more public money into schools; the other wants to close all the public schools. (As these issues rule out all other issues, it dodges the problem I mention above.) If the latter candidate is elected, the school board folds. In effect, a vote for candidate B is a vote for privatization of schooling, and an end to your elections-as-accountability system. Should we allow for that? You imply that we should not, as then there would be no accountability.
If I imply that elections should be single-issue things, then I retract that implication. However, the election process is the primary way to exert pressure on these institutions. Where's the accountability if a private corporation takes over the schools? Don't tell me it's in a contract - I know too many lawyers. Don't tell me it's in their profit/loss - all I have to do is look at industries that routinely "lose" or "barely make" money (Hollywood, old-style utilities) to see a problem with that.
Now, legislatures have their own problems - special interests and lobbyists, corruption, incompetence... but if people care enough, they can get together and make an impact, even if it's only in their own district/county/state. Don't think there's enough student accountability? Write letters for required testing before graduation (a not-so-hot idea, BTW). Don't think teachers are competent? Organize petitions for teacher testing and standard teacher accredidation. Don't think there are enough teachers? Stand outside the local Safeway with a sign and get people to agree to that local option sales tax that would go to raise their pay. Don't like the curriculum in your daughter's social studies class? Go to the school board, get on the agenda, and speak - and if that doesn't make you happy, get off your duff and run for office. That's citizenship, which is how the public schools remain accountable to the public.
Where, exactly, is the accountability in privatizing education?
I love vegetarians - some of my favorite foods are vegetarians.
This is why so many "geeks" feel oppressed by the American education system. The ruling principle is that students won't learn information unless it is force-fed to them (the image I'm trying to get at is the geese who have corn shoved down their gullets in order to get those englarged fatty livers for patte-de-foi gras). These virtual classrooms are just an extension of the force-feeding principle.
An example of this is the American principle that we should teach students how to think rather than teach them facts. Geeks think differently, and therefore get oppressed. For example, I failed numerous math tests in high-school because I solved the math problems in ways other than was tought by the instructor. In college, I had to spend several hours proving to my instructor not only that my lab experiment calculating the Thevinen resistance was correct, by that my method produced creater accuracy. (I still only got a "C" on the experiment).
Virtual classrooms are just an extension of this. Rather than giving children a list of what to learn an resources to do it (taped presentations, books, discussion e-mail lists, etc.), people instead create virtual classrooms where people have to sit down at fixed times and watch live video feeds from the professors.
The reason I try to get back to first-principles here is that there is a lot within the education system beyond the subject matter. Schools are where children learn to interact with other people. The social interaction on the playground is every much as important as what happens in the classroom.
Therefore, this distant learning crap fails on all counts. Emulating the classroom is even more oppressive than having no classroom, and not having social interaction for children is even worse.
This is a company run by Bill Bennet (sp) and he is a firm believer in school vouchers if you look at the price structure of this program it will almost match that proposed amount (2000 - 3000) a year It looks like this is targeted at this
No I'm not bashing this idea. It may be a God-send for some of the slower kids but there has to be a program for the extreme opposite.
"Where, exactly, is the accountability in privatizing education?"
In the fact that in competition for students schools will have to make sure that academic standards are high or they will go out of business.
Now we can get Math classes taught by Troy McClure:
"If you have 5 Pepsi's, and you take 2 Pepsi's away, how many Pepsi's do you have?"
"Pepsi?"
"Partial credit!"
--
--
"Outlook not so good." That magic 8-ball knows everything! I'll ask about Exchange Server next.
IF we close the public schools, where are the students going to go? Anywhere they can. Just like child care at the preschool level, the parents who can afford better send their kids to "preschools" (like my daughter's Montessori program) and those who can't send theirs to "day care centers" that offer far less.
We'll end up about where we are today - the rich will be competing to send their kids to "the best" schools, and the not-rich will be doing everything they can to get by - which means their kids will get a worse education, doesn't it? But then, what incentive will the rich have to improve everyone's lot overall by forcing improvement on those sub-standard schools?
This is an improvement how?
I love vegetarians - some of my favorite foods are vegetarians.
I'd really like to see a well-monitored voucher program tried somewhere. Some supplemental appropriation, so the standard education lobby couldn't scream "The schools are being robbed!" (although they will anyway - "That money should go to schools!") over a meaningful period (4-6 years). Do it right, get good evidence - then sit down and figure out what to do, based on those results, and not just a bunch of people engaging in knee-jerk reactions to the latest edu-fad.
I love vegetarians - some of my favorite foods are vegetarians.
Keeping kids out of school earlier and earlier is ridiculous. Can you learn how to share through a computer? Can you learn manners? Things that are extremely important to the way you develop can ONLY be taught by in-person interaction. Teaching them purely through a computer is ridiculous. The computer is a useful learning TOOL..but it is no replacement for genuine interaction. You would not build a house with nothing more than a hammer.
This reminds me of the conference about how companies can help 3rd world countries by donating computer systems, and bill gates giving a speech on "How is this going to help when those people don't even have enough food or medicine to live? A woman will see this computer and say 'But can it save my sick child?'".. computers are not the solution to everything.
-
I think that the "online school" idea is one that won't work. Learning stuff is one major component, but the "online school" concept compleatly neglects the other main part, learning to socialize with other people. No, chat rooms and ICQ don't count as socializing. The lower the grade, the more of a need for socialization there is. They shouldn't even think of having this for any grade before 8th, period.
Also this idea of an online gym class totally misses the point. Gym (at least when I had it) was more of a structured play time, it wasn't some exercise that you could do on your own. I wish these people would realize that you can't do everything online.
The fish or cut bait is: Is he doing this out of some moral obligation or is this the kind of drive which could be picked up by, say, George W. Bush as a sterling example of how education ought to be done and jammed down everyone's throats.
It's worth reading what the reviewer had to say on Amazon, regarding The Educated Child and Bennett, et al's conservative views.
--
+++ Out Of Cheese Error +++
+++ MELON MELON MELON +++
A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
There is school out there that's already been doing this for 3 years. It's called Laurel Springs (http://www.laurelsprings.com). I graduated from it this year after going through grade 10 to grade 12 there. I think it was a lot of fun, and I learned more than I would have in a normal school. I have to admit, it doesn't have as much peer-to-peer interaction, but the teachers are nice and the costs are reasonable. I believe that Jennifer Love Hewitt has a diploma from there also. A lot of actors and musicians who don't have time to attend high school full-time go to alternative schools like this one. -ipaspro
Well, there's always MyHomework for existing schools...
NerfOnline - Because Nerf Guns aren't just for kids -
So all you social retards will be that much more retarded cause you'll have been sitting infront of your computers during your formative years as well as the rest of your life. And then your house will catch on fire and you'll try and kill a fireman for not saving your computer. Just Great.
i've seen the argument hinted at in several posts, but i would like to just reiterate. School is not, specifically, about knowledge. Or at least not about the kind of knowledge that parents are berating public school teachers for not imparting on their bright little gang-banging children.
If you take away the classroom, children miss out on the most important part of school: Social interaction. I personally hated high-school. I had fun in middle school, and elementary school wasn't so bad. But all told, i have to say that i did most of my learning outside of the classroom, while still at school. This proposed K12 system takes away the advantage of students being placed in a social setting where they can interact with other children and learn the most important lessons of their lives; the social ones. Sure, students can play with their friends after they're done with their lessons. But they won't be (yes...i'll say it) forced into a situation where they have to deal with good as well as bad. The bully, the friend, the cute girl you just can't seem to work up the nerve to talk to. The miscreant, the outcast. All of them are an integral part of any childrens social development. If you take that away, you severely retard the social and intellectual capabilities of the very students you are so righteously(sp) trying to help.
FluX
After 16 years, MTV has finally completed its deevolution into the shiny things network
"It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once." -David Hume
The anti-social argument against online classrooms is old hat. While I don't have statistics I do have anectdotal evidence that homeschoolers are more well-adjusted, social, normal people by the time they reach college (which is often by age 16) than many public and formal private school kids. They often hold classes in groups, not one on one at home. Online learning has so far been a supplement to interactive (people-to-people) learning.
Who says intense socialization must occur at school? Shouldn't intense learning be occuring? How much time can efficient learning really be spent socializing. There are other ways to socialize. Plenty of homeschoolers get socialization from extracurricular activity. Often they gain deeper, long-lasting social interaction from their church.
Home schoolers, as it has been noted, have been doing online learning for several years. One site I know of that's associated with the home school group my wife studied with, http://www.gbt.org offers great in depth studies for older kids. I know there are many more like this.
I am a mom who's homeschooled for almost 10 years. I checked out K12's website (k12.com), and while they have all these businessmen on board, I don't see anyone involved in their organization that has any homeschool experience.
K12 does NOT seem to be in tune with the homeschool market. In my experience, most homeschoolers are not interested in recreating "school at home."
K12 plans to start its Internet-based program with children K-2 (ages about 5-7.) Kindergartners do not need to have their noses glued to a computer terminal for lessons! They need to draw, paint, cut and paste, play with clay, listen to a loving parent or teacher read good books to them, learn how to share and play with brothers and sisters or kids from the local homeschool support group, or friends in the neighborhood.
K12 also advertises itself as heavy on testing and assessment. Veteran educators and homeschool experts like Raymond Moore recommend that children not be exposed to standardized tests until at least third grade, and some late bloomers even later. This obsession with tests and test scores has made life miserable for so many children and teenagers, and to what end?
Personally I don't see much of a market for a non-religious, academically "neurotic," test-obsessed program that's heavy on computers, and aimed at 5-7 year olds. Most homeschoolers I've met are not interested in these features at all.
My general experience was that kids learned to disrespect teachers and their "authority" by being in school, not from lack of training at home. Quite frankly many of my teachers growing up where not deserving of respect and not qualified to exercise authority of any kind. This was not universal, and I did have a very small number of good teachers, but these were the exception and not the rule. After a few years being put by the school system under the authority of someone who most rational human beings would not allow to pet sit tends to drive any respect for teachers out of you.
Derived authority is always weak. If you are only in authority because someone has put you in charge of a situation then your grasp on that control will be tenuous at best. Most of the good teachers I've seen don't have to put effort into 'discipline'. They command respect from their students and THIS is the source of their authority. Most teachers I've met can't even comprehend this distinction.
Ok, so it shall be said; booooooo! Why must everyone insist on sticking computer screens in front of little kids all the fucking time? Little kids ought to be having books read to them (maybe teaching them to fucking read while you're at it) and do some artwork their moms can stick on the fridge. Having a terminal in front of them is only going to limit their creativity more than being force fed Power Rangers and Card Captors. Hey great and wonderful if you want to let kids play games on a computer but make it a reward for something rather than a curriculum. Legos, blank sheets of newsprint paper, and crayons are going to get their underdeveloped neurons moving. Oh yeah, I realize this is for home schooling purposes. A learning environment is a fucking learning environment. If it is a garage or classroom, it is still going to follow the same ideology. Computers and technology in general should be an additional medium of information exchange not the focus of the learning or the only medium you're going to convey information with. Stop treating disabled kids like some super special extraordinary case. If someone needs a little extra help in any context be it a learning disability or blindness help them where they need it but keep them in the mainstream; no one is being done a bit of good by being segregated.
I'm a loner Dottie, a Rebel.
Although a person like myself enjoys learning in a solitary environment, others simply need people there to encourage them, and so that they rise to the occasion. There is nothing like having an annoyingly intelligent brat in a class to make yourself try harder to beat him.
In short, although virtual learning has many benefits, and can be used successfully when other types of learning are not available, for children it should be used purely as an additional medium, and for consolidation purposes, and a little bit of fun.