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There are two problems with our current state of politics:

1. Constant attempts to one-dimensionalize views so people can be labelled easier.
2. Extreme, uncompromising views on these fake one-dimensional issues. You either want to dump mercury into seawater, or you're a tree hugging hippie. You're either a fundamentalist religious zealot, or a godless heathen. Et cetera.

I think someone needs to start a "Compromise" party so sensible people can vote. For instance, if we

You Al Qaeda loving faggots LOST the election and payback time ain't over we are gonna Patriot Act you Godless motherfuckers straight to Gitmo Bay and you wil wish you were just making electrified homo human pyramids in panties Allah loving COCKSUCKER!
Signed the Red States

Thanks for the false dilemma. Either we accept corporate hegemony and end-times theocracy or we accept godless Communism? How about freedom, which resembles neither?

Ha - they probably just threw that in to make sure people sought their guidance from approved channels like the Church.

(Well, that's why I'd do it - but what do I know? I'm just a Godless Damned Athiest.)

> Most of them still believe saddahm worked with
> the terrorists that blew up the wtc,

[ Aside from the spelling mistakes ] This amazes me most - why do they *care* about what happens in that godless, *city* of New York, full of Democrats and non-White-Anglo-Saxon-Protestants ?

In 1992 an El-Al freight Boeing crashed in my neighbourhood in Amsterdam, known for its large black populace. Initially, the nation was united in grief over the dead (could have been 250, turned out to be 39 on the ground, 4 in the plane).

After about two weeks colleagues started to talk to me about the whining blacks and when people would start to get on with their lives. This in ultra-left wing multicultural Holland.

No one has explained to me why the Midwest gets so worked up about something that happened in godless New York.

The parent is insightful? What the hell? Seems more like a complete lack of insight to me -- ill-informed, stereotyping idiocy... Ya know, some of us midwesterners are godless heathens who only occasionally go to Walmart...

That being said, I didn't vote for Kerry because he utterly failed to impress me. He's a complete non-entity with a weakly done platform. I didn't vote for Bush because he's incompetently stumbled from blunder to blunder over the last four years. Nader? Worse than either of those two. Badnarik? Not much for the Libertarian platform...

I dearly wanted to vote for someone -- anyone besides Bush, but I couldn't pull the trigger and still be able to look at myself in the mirror in the morning. So, I did what any sensible person would have: I skipped the presidential portion of the ballot and concentrated on the important votes (senate, reps, state, and local)

"American intelligence" is one of those things like "military intelligence" and "jumbo shrimp." And the irony, of course, is that the word describing this includes the word "moron."

Living in the bible belt I can tell you most of the folks around here are just that. Most of them, in fact, are really little different than those "primitives" living in caves and calling for jihad. This country has become a superpower and is in real danger of becoming just another of those fundamentalist states bent on world destruction in the name of allah. Of course most around here will deny it because (just like those other guys) "they are objectively right and the others are wrong." They defend "right to life" but in reality want nothing more than to see us all dead, dead, dead. What do they care? After all, they'll be "raptured" before the bloody end - "let'em eat cake."

At least the USSR had the courtesy to be a "godless superpower." This nation is already well on the road to becoming exactly what it fears most: a fundamentalist "superpower."

"God" help us all.

Thank you Mr. Dibold, Thank you Mr. Rove, and thank you whomever it was that discreated the Americas [sic]public shcool [sic] and standeric [sic] testing.

On this aspicous day I would like also to spare a word for the Democrats who realized how much safer they'd be under my handlers benificent rule; and also to the cuban-americans in Florida who somehow managed to misconestimated [sic] my promise to oust Castro; and that word is "sucker" eh, I mean "thanks" suckers.

Now to the issues of poverty in America, I promise you, with all my heart, that those who do not receive the jail time they deserve will lead our efforts to _liberate_ the political issues and persons my handlers find to be expedient at any given time.

I promise you my full inattention [sic] span and that no poor child will be left behind in our effort to draft a new way of life for the people of the wolrd. Our leadership will burn brightly in the streets and bodies of our friends around the world and that No Nation Shall Rise Above My Vision for America.

====

Seriously, to the rest of the world... I am sorry that two-thirds of the population of my home country is too apathetic to vote, and that some sixty million of the people who can, are to afriad of "evil faggots sneaking into their institutions and destroying their children's chance to marry" (or whatever, it doesn't make sense from here either) or are so fearful or gullable that they beleive that Iraq attacked America.

Be warned, stupidity is catching.

Please expect either some festering environmental policy or a "friendly interventionalist action" to pour forth from our Country into yours any time.

For those who don't know, I have "good reason to beleive" that "unofficially" word has leaked down that America will begin Nuclear Testing (as in "boom! oh... pretty!") in the near future. Nothing has been said, mind you, but look how well Bush carried Los Alamos (and no, that isn't my only source for that, but it is just a rumor)...

Just consider, Bush cannot be "reelected" so he'll be a off his "good behavior" as a (classic) second-term president.

I'd ask if some nice Canadian computer company were looking for experienced programmers, but this isn't a problem that can be usefully fled, and besides, for all I know Bush may declare Canda a target for the next crusade. He clearly doesn't understand things like the descrimination of fact from desire, or the stupidity of pissing off a neighboring country. Fortunately Cuba is right next to Brother Jeb and Bush has already promised an attack there, so maybe Castro can solve the "Bush Dinasty" problem.

So no change in the foreign policy: No (enfranchised) Blood for (cheap) Oil; use the children of poor and "those godless sand-people" [but I dont mean you Bin Laden, you're a family friend] to keep it $52 (USD) per barrel.

Really Europe, Africa, and our "alies". Get a clue. You are in an unhealthy relationship. We get drunk on "family values", beat our [pick a word], belittle our children [US possessions] and have no respect for our selves beyond a post-adolecent fascination with our "prowess".

Why in the world would you think we mean it _this_ time when we say we won't hit? You loan us money, you let us into your house.

Stop being a bunch of enablers, can't you see we are sick and need help?

Sic Transit Gloria Mundi...

====

And it's not a crusade, it's a liberation of the holy land...

The right to life begins at conception and ends at birth...

Nuke a unborn gay babby whale for Jeasus.

Ok Daddy?

Amen.

We have a winnah.

Please submit your application for girlfriendhood below:

1) Name
2) Rank
3) Serial Number
4) Favorite Golden Girl
5) Favorite Color
6) Favorite Musical Group/Type/Artist
7) Favorite Pasta
8) Brief Paragraph Describing Yourself

I am an equal-opportunity dater and do not discriminate based on differences of race, creed, ethnic origin, or political party, even if you're a dirty, dirty, filthy Communist. You godless Red, you. You're thinking about undermining the dollar right now, aren't you?

I strongly disagree. There is no way that the Bible is compatible with the teachings of evolution. Evolution requres millions/billions/trillions of years of death and suffering to whereas the Bible clearly states that death is a result of sin see Romans 5:12 (http://www.studylight.org/desk/?query=ro+5:12&tra nslation=nas&st=1&new=1&sr=1&l=en) . How can you have eons of death and suffering that God decrees "good" before Adam sinned? Sin is not good. Sin is evil. You can't accept the Bible and evolution. Science is not incompatible with the Bible see (http://www.answersingenesis.org/), but godless junk science is incompatible with the Bible.

godless socialism?!?!? Government has something to do with religion?

Well, they really were happy with all the freedom they enjoyed under godless socialism eh? Oh wait...

No thank you. I'm sure many non-fanatical atheists also prefer to live peacefully among believers than they would under your atheist's utopian regime/dictatorship.

The portion released seems to contain a backhanded but solid endorsement for John Kerry. So one is immediately reminded of the responses reported by The Guardian to its Operation Clark County letter-writing campaign. Does Osama bin Laden read the newspapers, or does he merely depend on directions from his god? And now the editorial staff at LeMonde (obviously not reading English papers, probably also godless) have delivered the French kiss of death to Kerry's hopes.

The Abu Hafs al-Masri Brigade, in claiming responsibility for the Madrid train bombing, went for the other candidate:

"A word for the foolish Bush. We are very keen that you do not lose in the forthcoming elections as we know very well that any big attack can bring down your government and this is what we do not want.

"We cannot get anyone who is more foolish than you, who deals with matters with force instead of wisdom and diplomacy.

"Your stupidity and religious extremism is what we want as our people will not awaken from their deep sleep except when there is an enemy.

"Kerry will kill our nation while it sleeps because he and the Democrats have the cunning to embellish blasphemy and present it to the Arab and Muslim nation as civilisation.

"Because of this we desire you [Bush] to be elected."

But that was written way back in March, long before Operation Clark County, and by a group only loosly associated with bin Laden. I think that the more recent bin Laden effort is rather more cleverly designed.

I've figured it out. The Rubiks cube was actually invented by some commie, wasn't it? So the All-American Majick Cube would actually be HELPING our economy, by making sure part of the profits didn't go to those godless communists.

So, if the Dept of Homeland Security confiscated the American cubes.... they must be agents of the Soviet Government. Thats the only thing that makes sense.

This is utterly idiotic.

"They hate us for our freedom" is not a *claim* made about *everybody*. It is an *observation* made about a specific group of Islamofascists who most certainly *do* hate us for our freedoms, and make no bones about it.

They are quite open about the fact that they hate the godlessness of our society; the way we allow our women to behave; the way we dress; the way our culture is saturated with sex; our failure to worship Allah correctly; the way we vote for our leaders instead of allowing religious leaders to select the most holy among them, etc.

For the purposes of making this point, it's not even necessary for me to debate any of their specific arguments. All I have to do is point out that they do indeed hate Western liberal style freedoms. You know that "Caliphate" Osama Bin Laden talks about restoring? Well guess what, buddy: "Caliphs" aren't elected officials.

- Alaska Jack

shut the fuckup you fucking liberal pussy if you dont wanna live here than fine get the fuck out of here and stop bitching and maybe you gonna change your ming after you live in the europe ruled by godless commies for christ sake!

> ...no party with a truly libertarian platform is going to command a
> quorum in the United States in the forseeable future.

Exactly correct. So in the scenario of the Libertarians becoming ascendent they would be 'selling out' more and more principles to gain supporters. But Libertarian thought would still be the underlying principles guiding the party.

Think of the current Democratic Party as a good example; all of the most influencial thinkers are Socialists and that philosophy, limited by what is politically possible, guides most of the Party's actions even though they can't even use that word in public. Their hope is that over time they will influence public opinion such that their views become mainstream enough to be able to 'come out'. Considering the great progress they have made over the last century it is quite probable their day would have already come had it not been for Ronald Reagan. Ideas like redistribution of income, entitlements, group rights and an all powerful Federal government are firmly entrenched in the popular culture even with their party being in decline for the last twenty plus years.

The point being that a Libertarian Party popular enough to actually made it to power would be one that wouldn't govern anything like what WE think of as Libertarian. But if they continued in power any length of time they would subtly alter the fabric of American society such that more and more Libertarian ideas would be politically possible.

> The problem is not Democrats and Republicans; it's that there are
> only two parties. It doesn't really matter what those two parties are.

Doesn't matter. We already have more than two parties as a practical matter. But to govern you have to have a coalition that adds to a majority. So we have an uneasy alliance between groups who don't really like one another, but know they need each other to govern. The groups not in the governing coalition end up mostly together in the out of piwer party. Really, what do Randite Libertarians and Falwell Fundies have in common other than sharing a few more common interests than either can find in the other camp? Same for tree hugging enviros and union thugs over in the other camp.

We tend to have two parties basically split over some overarching BIG issue and then most of the other issues fall out in one camp or the other with a few that just don't map to the current split. Right now that BIG issue is Capitalism vs Socialism. So the Fundies naturally fall into the other camp, not because they are big fans of Capitalism but because they can't stand the "godless commies". New parties tend to appear when that BIG issue changes.

The Republican party appeared when THE issue became "Does the concept of Federalism insulate a group of States against the determined will of another group of States. Specifically over the slavery issue." We all know who won that debate and the Federal Government has been out of control ever since, because at it's core the Republican are founded on belief in Federal power as much as or perhaps more than the Democrats, despite rhetoric to the contrary.

So who's the jerk who's going around modding down all my on-topic posts as off-topic? If you don't agree with what I say, that is insufficient reason to mod me down. My response was on-topic to the person I was replying. If you are enacting a policy of modding all religious posts as off-topic, then you should only mod-down the one who brought it up first, not the ones who replied. Once something has been raised, it becomes a legitimate topic for reply.

In recent times the USA has not endeared itself to the Muslim parts of the world, but this will only be solved by diplomacy and constructive actions, not war and war-like "them and us" sentiments.

I see this a lot, and I can only guess that you've never actually spent some time reading what bin Laden and the rest of them have to say.

Let's go down the short list of things that bin Laden doesn't care about:

• Israel - the Palestinians don't matter to him, otherwise he'd help them
• Christianity - It's quite rare that this is brought up, and you'll soon understand why (if you don't already know)

bin Laden has made it perfectly clear that he hates America because it is overtly "godless" and evil. He's saying this from a Muslim point of view. Imagine if you knew America only through the movies and other trash that we export, you might feel differently, too.

On top of that, he has a gripe that the soldiers of this "godless" nation are hanging out in his holy land, Saudi Arabia, along with a bunch of other foreigners working in the oil industry. He doesn't think that non-Muslims should be there.

There is no amount of "dialog" that will change that. On the other hand, capturing and killing their commanders has had a positive influence.

On a side note: I honestly can't believe people are still dumb enough to advance these arguments about how we need diplomacy. Seriously. Ask the Spanish. They capitulated after the 3/11 attacks, and yet last week they arrested a terrorist cell that was planning on blowing up their supreme court. You're not dealing with rational people.

I agree that the US has done some really dumb stuff, and it would help our position immensely on the "Arab street" if we were to deal fairly in the Israel/Palestine situation. I also have a problem with the fact that democracy is only to be forced on the victims of our enemies, but doesn't seem to be a priority for the people of Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Pakistan, etc.

Regardless, this isn't pushing al Qaeda.

"ANY religous practice handed down from generations ago teaches peace, compassion and civility, manners, morals and ethics toward fellow citizens,"

I just wish people would listen to those teachings and take them to heart.