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Uruguayan SuSE Reseller Trying to Trademark Linux
Ysidoro writes "With No. 316.081 of August 30, 1999 has been filed before the Uruguayan Trademark Office a trademark application for registration of the LINUX name to International class 42 (computer related services). This application has been filed by Mr. Francisco Pereira and Mr. Enrique Place de Cuadro, of Montevideo, Uruguay. In accordance with the official publication from the Industrial Property Bulletin No. 6 of December 1999.
See the open letter writed by a group of Uruguayan Linux users. "
since we are of Swedish decent and were living in the Swedish speaking part of Finland before moving to America. True Finns came from Hungary (AFAIK) and are therefore of somewhat different lineage.
So if I'm born in a barn, does that make me a horse? Just wondering.
Unlike the Dutch detergent, I doubt if this'll wash.
that doesn't make him swedish....
Come on, it's his last plug. This really didn't need to be moderated down.
Look up the root word "ridicule".
technos, i am indebted to you for your kindness! don't be mistaken, though! i am certainly not dropping from slashdot! fat-time is dropping from slashdot! there are still open source trolls to be posted! i just thought fatty deserved some legitimacy.
you know, it's amazing... people have gone to my other web page where my primary email address is and i haven't gotten a single spam mail! alas, fat-time hasn't gotten any mail at all! poor fat, undulating slob.
on a funny note - i have a section on the "other" page with a story titled "rebecca". it's amazing how many people have gone directly to that. i think they believe it has a picture of my girlfriend or something.
take the "other page" with a grain of salt... these are all created online personalities for entertainment purposes only... and, no, rebecca is not a real person.
warren
Pardon me for being a typical stupid uneducated American, but where the hell is Uruguay? Africa somewhere?
Wtf?
Of the four companies you mentioned, only one has 'Linux' as part of their name. I believe that a trademark only affects names, not descriptions, so they couldn't prevent anyone else from forming a company named XYZ and then using Linux to describe their activities (eg Redhat is the company name, but the boxes say Redhat Linux). Perhaps this trademark will have minimal effect on anyone else trying to start up in Uruguay, I hope so anyway.
Was? There still is. It's my primary source of Hydrocloric Acid. Isn't it cool what you can buy off the shelf in a supermarket these days?
How can they do this? I was going to trademark Linux , Gnome and be rich and famous in Urugay... muhahaha!!! Well .. well ... guess this means i must find some another way to fund my world domination.
Of course it does. One of the most central elements of cultural identity is language. Linus is indeed Swedish, even if he happened to be born in Finland.
Ditto for Russians, or Mexicans born in the US.
You're confusing nationality with citizenship.
They don't own anything except a few fluff programs. Take those out and the rest is freely redistributable. It has to be. That's the condition under which Suse is allowed to redistribute.
Anything less would be a GPL violation.
Actually, taking someone else's trademark and trying to claim your own new trademark by adding something generic or descriptive (or perhaps not) is NOT kosher. It's not somehow magically transformed into a new mark that can rightfully stand on it's own.
Someone trying to claim ownership of 'LinuxTech' has nothing to base an ownership claim on really.
They've essentially stolen someone's car repainted and claimed that that gives them the right to call it their car now.
I see the biggest problem with Linux beer being lack of disclosure of the recipe... '-)
Umm, "fuck off guys"... is that really a way to get your point across? If I had said this about anything other than linux I'd have been -1'd. Here's an example of why moderators need to pay attention. I do not want or need to read moderated comments that are essentially redundant drivel. Damn troll.
read the other posts before you post something, esp when there are this few.
*nt* != new technology
Please read LinuxTECH reply to the "open letter" in this page
Por favor, lea la respuesta de LinuxTECH a la "carta abierta" en esta página
Don't you just love how Richard Simmons can post any article here, Even in another language, and still get moderated up just by being a self-proclaimed luminary? Get off it, Richard, you are a pointless idiot of a human being.
http://www.linux.com.uy/contestacion.html
doh... subject supposed to be:
/.'s rules
(Score:-1, Bad Pun)
forgot
my bad
Is idiocy truly like the hydra? Knock one down, and two more idiots take the place of the first? Scuse me, I need to beat my head off my keyboard a little
gtgtyhbnjuyjuhitghy
rdef4576ui98uy7hj
frdeofr4debvg76yy76u
WELL! I don't know if I feel better, but I sure have a splefty bruise on my forehead now!
Chas - The one, the only.
THANK GOD!!!
Chas - The one, the only.
THANK GOD!!!
mmm, im eating caramel, and OH it's sooooo good ;)
i thought I had no sig?
All I can say is...
ATTACK!!
Ok, now that I've created a little more disruption in the world, back to my hole
This is my sig. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
Sheesh.
Open Source. Closed Minds. We are Slashdot.
Please...this makes us >all look bad.
Remember it, write it down, take a picture, I dont give a fsck!
Yes, this is offtopic, and I realize it will be moderated down quickly, but it deserves a bit more notice than the near automatic -1 moderation it recieved. The fat-time charlie online serial Give it a read, if only because you won't be hearing from the author in the Slashdot forums anymore.
/. radar long enough to be seen, eh fat-time??
And if you're an aspiring artist, perhaps you'll drop the fellow some mail. The serial is damn funny, but it would be even better with some fittingly surrealistic illustrations.
I knew +1 was good for something. Hope it stays on the
.sig: Now legally binding!
Reminds me of a line in a song:
"When innocence cried, NO ONE SAID ANYTHING!"
Enjoy your MSRamen soup, reheating will cost you the price of another license. Someone must pay the lawyers we hired on your behalf to protect you while in your kitchen.
The message on the other side of this sig is false.
"Again? But that trick never works!"
"Nothing up my sleeve. Presto!"
"ROAR, SNARL!!!"
(Moose stuffs lion back into hat)
"Whew. That was a close one."
"Sigh. And now for something you'll really like."
At the rate we have jackasses trying to tm the Linux name, maybe we need a new icon for it. How about a jackass with 'tm' branded on it's butt?
offtopic? wtf, I replied to a post that hadn't been moderated down. It was on topic at the time I posted. If you can't reply on the topic of other people's posts what can you respond to... Flamebait I can understand, maybe.. but offtopic
For those of you who read the article, it seems to me that these people are EVIL and they're trying to take a complete monopoly over anything that has anything to do with linux in Uruguay!
I propose that we start a fund to hire lawyers for the Uruguyan Linux Users Group to fight these EVIL monopolistic fruitcakes.
Great! Now everybody and their grandmother are going to try trademarking the name Linux.
I don't think these guys know how much they Suck! - - In this world where people like Yahoo can make billions with a stupid "information repository", everyone and anyone thinks they can become millionaires by copyrighting or patenting anything, even someone elses work. When and who will end this madness?
These guys trademarked Coca Cola too right?
Eh...
Whether or not Linus likes it, I doubt he'll be making any phone calls to the Uruguayan government. Linus is as fond of his liberty as anyone else (after years living in the shadow of Soviet aggression, wouldn't you be?) and is practically a libertarian.
The Uruguayan government, on the other hand has an evil reputation for torture, imprisonment, repression and cutting the hands off (I MEAN IT!) Catholic priests. All, need I say, supported by Klinton, Janet Reno and the CIA. Are these the kind of people you want defending your trademark?
If the market wants to buy Linux from the Uruguayan resaler then the market will decide that they are the right people, and nobody, not even Linus will have a right to use that name anymore. That's the difference between a natural monopoly, which is freely given by the market, and the usual, government supported monopoly like that enjoyed by the Postal Service. One of these has the full moral weight of a free market behind it, the other is the artificial, tyrannical imposition of a thieving traitorous criminal in the White House. If Klinton is happy to sell our national security to the Chinese so that we can't even defend our country, why should we expect his Uruguayan puppets to defend Linux?
In short, leave it to the market, because the market is made up of people like you and me. If you don't like Uruguayan Linux, don't buy it! Myself, I'll buy it if I think it's the best product on offer. We have the liberty to disagree with each other (for the moment)
* that sentence makes ABSOLUTELY no sense.
It is ungrammatical, but the meaning is completely recoverable; thus' I'd say it does make sense. "has been filed" is a passive, and the only possible subject is "a trademark".
This error apparently arises because Spanish allows freer word order than English. Look at the Spanish original sentence:
"In accordance with the official publication from the Industrial Property Bulletin No. 6 of December 1999."
* Wrong: this sentence has no subject or verb. It is an insubordinate clause...a fragment...it is wrong!
Fragments like these occur in English texts. Stuff like: "Compliant with FCC regulations for Class B devices". This kind of thing is used when the referent is contextually clear.
Though actually, in the original Spanish letter, there is a verb and a null subject:
---
Of course, I'll refrain from commenting on any legal abilities they may have, as I know precicely zero about Uruguayan law.
--
Ben Kosse
Remember Ed Curry!
I don't know about other areas.
--
Ben Kosse
Remember Ed Curry!
Yer so damn cool, I want to kneel at your feet and prostrate myself in adulation.
--
Ben Kosse
Remember Ed Curry!
This is typical for SuSE, fitting into their general marketing strategy. Which in many points reminds me of that other company (tm) from Redmond.
...and SuSE does not have any exclusive
reseller for any country.
Bye, LenZ
This isn't the first time this has come up.
It would be nice if we could somehow get all the forms filed to get Linus's hold on Linux as a trademark in every country. At least those that have trademarks. It could be called something like the Linux Trademark Plan, with a domain such as linuxtm.org.
You appear to have figured out that Slashdot runs stories in a similar vein. A few weeks ago, someone congratulated themselves for noticing that Linux gets mentioned a lot. Now you've figured out that Trademarks and IP are an issue. Good for you.
----------------- "I have a bone to pick, and a few to break." - Refused -------------------
Yes, but if your parents were Swedish, from Sweden, who emigrated to Canada, you would be of Swedish ethnicity and of Canadian nationality (Swedish-Canadian? :).
I don't know if Linus is Swedish, but if he is, I guess he's a Swedish-Finn.
Cheers.............
I wonder if Doug Adams could sue Altavista for stealing the babelfish concept.
You have never heard of Uruguay? Where did you go to school??? Probably, didn't which explains your confusion.
What IF they won? Seriously, do these guys realize what they could unleash upon themselves?
First, one can imagine the unquantifiable amount of flame that LinuxTECH would receieve. Not only from the community, but from the media. Also, what would companies like Red Hat, SuSE, VA Linux Systems, and IBM think of this? I doubt they'd be very pleased about the situation at all.
I'm sorry, but anyone else who tries to trademark Linux should be shot.
Survivors should be shot again. Nuff said.
--
The power of the market to decide who is best suited to serve people is all well and good when the market is Open. Looking at the letter though, this company is trying to obtain "exclusive rights" to the LINUX name and/or particular distributions. With legal protections, they are trying to obtain the help of the government to bludgen any competition, removing the ability of "the market" to move freely. In other words, "don't buy it" is no longer a viable option!
Your Servant, B. Baggins
Thus Sony Music (NZ) held all rights to import Sony CDs into the country etc. Only The Levi Strauss Co. could import commercial quantities of Levi Jeans into the country.
Then the law changed, so now (if I had $$) could go and buy bulk in places where product happens to be cheap, and import and resell at a profit by undercutting the original manufacturer.
In being the only company able to import SUSE Linux into Uruguay, they may just have made a legal coup.
But still, it's Linux. If you don't want to buy the 'Official' version, you have the freedom (for the GPLed portion) to copy someone elses (although it lacks some of the features of the original (like RH offer bundled support for official users..)
... and today's pet project has
Yet there seems to be great upset at the idea of applying it as a trademark for "computer related services." Not a trademark for "computer software," mind you, but as a trademark for something that might very well have absolutely nothing to do with software.
Now, before you consider this to be puerile flamebait, I'll admit that I think it's rather rude to use the name "Linux" for any product. I think using it as a detergent name is just plain stupid (outside of Switzerland, where it's apparently an established detergent name); and I think using it in reference to anything remotely computer-related is dishonest.
But, still... isn't it interesting where our buttons get pushed?
It's cool to name your new toilet paper "Linux."
But name your keyboard cleaning and repair company "Linux," and you'll burn in hell.
--
Don't like it? Respond with words, not karma.
It's funny, laugh, dammit. =)
Oh, don't get your panties in a bunch.
We folks at SuSE are as respectful of the Linux trademark as the next guy. I'm sure some of our business folks will be chatting with them soon enough to find an agreeable solution to the problem. I'm sure that any solution agreeable to SuSE will include cessation of such silly antics.
Have a good day.
-josh
Having personal (and corporate) interest in this Linux thing, it goes double for all those who attempt to trademark "Linux".. (especially now.. after it's pretty obviously a power grab).
That said, I don't personally know my company (SuSE's) relationship with this firm, nor the exact details. I will be sure to mention it to Those Who Make Things Happen if it hasn't been done already.
-josh
And he spoke Swedish at home while growing up. About 10% of Finns do.
It depends on the country trade mark law. Some countries have explicit provisions that international trademarks, patents and copyright prevail. Some (US and France are such examples methink) do not.
Baker's Law: Misery no longer loves company. Nowadays it insists on it
http://www.sigsegv.cx/
Yep, it did say that they were the only retailer. That's why I think that something could be done about it rather easily, if we got together and bitched. Slashdot readers are good at bitching, eh? ;)
.ch is switzerland. This is the non-offensive linuxtech. Please moderate down, moderators! :)
First of all, would this trademark be valid in other parts of the world? What does International Class 42 mean?
:)
Also, I was under the impression that Linus had a trademark on the linux name. I might be mistaken, though.
Since this company is taking actions that are not in the free software spirit, can we write SuSE to revoke this dealer's license and spread the love to other retailers?
Also, what kind of effect could we have on the Uruguay(an?) government?
Just some questions to get ya'll thinking.... hope there's some lawyers out there. Good ones like CmdrTaco and Hemos mentioned earlier today.
If you had read the letter, you'd have seen that IT'S IN ENGLISH ON THE RIGHT SIDE.
nt means No Text.
I wonder if these companies do this for marketing stunts? Its kind of like telling telling the world something outrageous just to get attention.
Microsoft aggravates my tourettes syndrome.
Sure, but it is strange, their HTML is generated by a program from wml, running as _root_! Perheaps it is run by cron, but it's still a bit strange...
--The knowledge that you are an idiot, is what distinguishes you from one.
I wonder if these guys are related to LinuxOne in anyway.
----
"War doesn't determine who's right, just who's left"
"War doesn't determine who's right, just who's left"
Steven Wright
I don't think that calling themselves "LinuxTECH" is bad; I'm not sure why UYLUG cares about this. It sounds like an accurate description of what their venture is supposed to be.
Whether or not it's fair to use www.linux.com.uy is something I'm not decided on. It's certainly legal, though.
But I'm entirely in agreement that trying to trademark "Linux" is immoral and illegal. It would be like a car dealer trademarking "car"; it makes no sense.
Good luck nipping this insanity in the bud, UYLUG.
So, as non-native English speakers they could:
1. "get educated, mang!", i.e. become fluent in a foreighn language, a time-consuming and difficult process
or
2. Do the best they can now, which is obviously good enough since you understood the article, thus reaching a large audience of people who care about this issue and want to hear about it ASAP.
I think they made the right choice, don't you?
Aye, it is.
I left the end off because it changes from episode to episode. I changed the period to an ellipsis to make this clearer. And you know what? The slash code corrects all of my current comments that haven't gone static. Neat.
"I have a cunning plan..."
That is an excellent site with a short, succint definition of trademark and other terms we are all becoming too aware of lately. Thanks
For the copy and past challenged, here is the hyperlink .
"I have a cunning plan..."
but 'writed'? Writed!?!?!?!?! Vo Ist writed?!?!?!
Why did you not choose 'written'? Is it a jab to over-zealous grammar nazi's such as myself?
:)
I'll attempt to seem on-topic:
Well, that's the last Uraguayan linux distro that I'm ever going to buy.... *Hrumph*
Fresh from a successful salvage effort of somewhat torched space probe recently shot down by the Mars Air Force over the South Pole, Mr. Pthehq3 has recently decoded the software designed to control a concealed listening device attached to the probe. This concealed listening device is thought to be part of the well known Earth Spy Agency Project "Echelon".
On examination of the software, Mr. Pthehq3 has filed a trademark application with the NMSPTO for the term Linux, and has additionally registered several domain names including linux.mars and linux.venus. Mr. Pthehq3 has stated that he will soon establish a web site for the free dissemination of the software under the MPL, Mars Public License.
we way we dont want to have "Stupid" law suits going on... so why do we post these things that only make the ignorant jump up and down in a circle. This isn't a problem... and I am sure Linus wont bat an eye at it. (Or should anyone else involved.)
Stupid people do stupid things... Smart people outsmart each other... --System of a Down
I'd like to announce that I've received a trademark for the terms "computer" and "software", so I'll appreciate it if y'all will stop using them.
Seriously, though, I once bought a roll of tape made by a company named MilSpec(tm). Heavy emphasis on the word once. Point being that anyone can apply for a trademark and maybe even get a particularly clueless clerk to issue it. Defending it - that is, getting others to not use it - is a whole different kind of issue.
Always and inevitably everyone underestimates the number of stupid individuals in circulation
Information is not Knowledge
What is scary is that this could go through depending on if the GPL can be enforced in Uruguay or not.
Just like in the USA, some licences, or parts of them, are valid in certain states and not in others. Uruguay might have some sort catch for foreign licenses making all or parts of them void. It could also be just a legal loop hole.
Common sense should take over here, I don't care what legal catches you have, approving this trademark would be anti-smart.
I'm sorry, but anyone else who tries to trademark Linux should be shot.
you are aware that Linus Torvlads owns the US copyright to the word "linux" right?
"Suble Mind control? why do html buttons say submit?",
ReadThe ReflectionEngine, a cyberpunk style n
That still dosn't why Linus would get a trademark in sweeden.
"Suble Mind control? why do html buttons say submit?",
ReadThe ReflectionEngine, a cyberpunk style n
Someone remind me again how much control God Himself (Linus) has over the name "Linux"? I understand he has some form of control; is it copyright? Does it only have effect in Sweden, or is his control over the name supposed to be internationally recognized? Could a simple letter from the man to the Uruguayan body that hands trademarks out end this fiasco before it starts?
Just wondering,
plat
Someday, you're going to die. Get over it.
I have a feeling the translator was a program. Ever use babelfish? ;)
Michael Gentili
- He's just some guy, you know?
didn't the posted piece mention something about that company, LINUXTech, holding some sort of license whereby they were the only retailer's of SUSE in Uraguay? (or did you just state that?)
I wondered how they could manage such. I mean, I don't see how/why SUSE would let just one leetle retailer be the sole proprietor of their distro.
and, as many others have said, what about Linus? did he not have that name already trademarked? gee, I need to keep up more..
*sigh*
Insert mind here.
that is the wrong linuxtech
Eve Fairbanks says I drive a hybrid!LOL
please, hit THIS site early and often
Eve Fairbanks says I drive a hybrid!LOL
If I had read the letter, *I'D SPEAK SPANISH*.
Yahoo! Pipes are awesome. How awesome? http://pipes.yahoo.com/jesdynf/slashdot
Suppose we had a fund to hire ex-KGB thugs to go bust some heads when this shit happens? When they're not busy enforcing Open-Source licences and trademarks, they could break spammers' kneecaps.
-jcr
The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
Gee, mabye that's because they are from Uruguay and English is their second language. Not everyone is entirely fluent is English, you know.
Besides which, I doubt you could do much better in your second language, if you have one, which I also doubt.
Interestingly enough... If you look at the bottom right of the babelfish page you'll probably see the little 'h2g2, home of the babelfish' icon. Click it and it takes you to h2g2.com - Douglas Adams site which seeks to build the HHGttG!
It is insightful. A lot of people thought so, but their opinions were apparently overruled by a higher power.
Sorry you think my opinion is crap. I don't critique other's comments often, but when I do I can do better than saying something is "crap".
The MSCE folks around me say Linux is "crap". They have no reason for this, but when you are spreading FUD and blurting out statements about something you don't know about (they have never tried linux), well.. you don't need facts or reasons.
Again, what this company is doing is obviously wrong, and the vast majority of posters agree.
I'd love to have Linux beer!
---- I made the Kessel Run in under 11 parsecs.
Just as this Uruguayan company has registered for the trademark on the name "LinuxTECH", which was previously un-trademarked, what's to stop this from working, seeing as how "Linux" is also a previously un-trademarked name?
Sorry,
I live in Switzerland, I 've never heard of them, SuSE is big here, but LinuxTECH ? I can't even find them in the phonebook.
MRo
Skipped a few geography classes, eh?
:-P
He's Uruguayan. His English may not be perfect.
(incidentally, English is considered one of the hardest languages to learn because of its irregularities and arbitrary rules. Go Latin! (not flamebait, just an immensely cool language. If you don't like it, substitute "Go Esperanto!" instead)).
void recursion (void)
{
recursion();
}
while(1) printf ("infinite loop");
if (true) printf ("Stupid sig quote");
Friends don't let friends misuse the subjunctive.
"I have a cunning plan."
I assume that this is from Black Adder's Baldrick.
heh...
But isin't it "I have a cunning plan which cannot fail."?
(Note: I would have mailed you with this, but you don't display your email. Please don't kill me, moderators...)
Jedi Hacker (Apprentice) and Code Poet
censorship is a form of noise, which actively seeks to drown out content with silence - Crash Culligan
AussiePenguin
Melbourne, Australia
ICQ 19255837
Jeremy
Melbourne, Australia
Jabber Australia
I'm shocked to to believe that they THINK they can get away with this. Impressed!
-Oy Vey
fuckhead? I read the spanish version and I do remember seeing it? hmmm.
The message on the other side of this sig is false.
I could never even get the tone stress system in japanese, which is much less complicated than chinese (and doesn't carry as much meaning).
German is an easy language. Sure, there's irregularities, but they occur frequently enough that you learn them, rather than hiding them away in teh corner like english so that you only see them once in a blue moon. Of course, the syntax causes occasional buffer overruns, but even native speakers have trouble with that.
On somethign actually on topic, it's funny that linuxtech.com.uy has a page explaining what is meant by "Software Libre", as if there could be any confusion in a language with words for both "libre" and "gratuité" (sorry, only read spanish, don't write it).
--Kevin
If this is like my country; then it could mean that, following an aproval; "LinuxTECH" may sue anyone trying to use the word Linux. Ie; the "Linux" word will become a Registered trademark and no one else _but them_ have the right to use it or use it for profit. This is serious.
I think the Uruguayan Linux User group should boycott this company, and ask SUSE to stop their agreement with them unless they stop. If there is a risk that someone else attempts to take the name; then a not profit organization (like the user group) should apply for the Name (to declare it non trademarkable et al.).
Artix
Your Linux, your init.
cállese el hocico
:-)
Here in Spain, we often say cierra el pico, Federico!
Heber Godoy - Andres Tarallo
President - Secretary
UYLUG
Please, READ carefully. linuxtech.CH are not the applicants for registration.
Why not let them think that they can lock down importation of their version of SuSe and them re-tool it into another distribution called "LinuxTech's A Joke", maybe that'd show them that they can't keep exclusive control of gpl'd software.
For me the most interesting thing is the way people are tying trade marks to domains. With the growth of the 'net this is getting increasingly less relevant. Why should I care that someone in Uraguay or the States holds a trademark on anything when the International laws on this are hazy at best.
What is needed is a realization that language is finite and marketing is just obfuscation. A snappy name does not make a great product.
.sig
Nothing more than that!
(Note:If you can't guess that I am joking there must be something seriously wrong with you. I accept no liability for anything)
/. will be flooded as the words "Linux" and "Trademark" in the same sentance cause an article to be posted without thought!
Isn't this about the 50th time this has happpend within the past 4 months or so?
Is it that big of a deal? Maybe I'll try to patent it tomorrow just so I can see it on Slashdot! I'll go back the next day, and the next, I will start a "Try and trademark Linux just to piss-off Slashdot" campaign!
Every week a new story will be posted on my trademark attempt of the week, my mysterious disguises used to fool ususpecting patent clerks who are looking to throw me out as I hand in patent application after patent application.
My many followers will try and trademark Linux in their countries too!
It will never end!
Muahahahahahahahahahahahaah!
I'll yield the point; it would be prudent to get the other side of the argument before passing final judgement. It's possible that LinuxTech (Uruguayan, not Swiss) was just trying to protect themselves and had no intention of blocking others from using the word Linux. I suppose they have every right to apply for trademarks to whatever they want, they just shouldn't neccesarily be granted them.
But regarding the original complaint by the users' group, don't confuse poorly translated with poorly thought out. There's no telling what was lost in the translation. Unless you can read both languages.
I have no idea if they are lying or speaking the truth, but it seems that there is more to this story then meets the eye. The link down below will lead you to a document stating that the UYLUG was trademarking LINUX themselves. Anyways, I have asked them to clarify what they want to do with the trademark.
On Fri, 7 Jan 2000, Raindeer wrote:
> Hello peoples,
>
> You're on slashdot, maybe you could join the discussion... and explain your
> side of the story, cause nobody seems to understand why you want to
> trademark LINUX.
>
> greetz...
>
> Rudolf aka Raindeer
Please read our reply to the "open letter" in our site.
http://www.linux.com.uy/contestacion.html
Thanks for your comments.
Best regards,
Francisco Pereira and Enrique Place
Use Adsense for Charity
have a patent.. you could always use more.. you imagination is the limit.. hurry quick before all good patents are taken up..
You know its difficult nowadays to find things to patent just to claim your stake in this world. If I cant collect on others prosperity.. how else am I going to support myself. I thought about purchasing the microprocessor, but that isnt wide enough.. not exclusive enough to give me the standard of living ive come to expect from abusing the law and others. I could patent usb or some other emerging technology that looks promising.. but wait, how do I cash in on all the years and technology that is readily available. I got it.
sir, id like to place a patent on silicon and copper.
LW
and flame.
--- Grow a pair, liberals... stop letting the Republicans bully you!
This is not an open source issue this is a money issue and two gentlmen who are probably a little more savy than the rest of their 3rd world occupants are trying to corner a market that is captalism in it's purest form. It is how Mr Gates made his billions and these gentlemen are trying to do that in a small way. You can get pissed all you want but if you had an oppurtunity like this you would run all the way to bank laughing the whole way. Hey this may not even last that long remember new coke?
The people of Uruguay have been oppressed for too long. This attempt to trademark Linux is the last straw. We must bomb them!
We in the Northern Hemisphere are tired of continuously mistreating our brothers to the South, and we think it's time to end it. Uruguayan Linux is a perversion of our latest attempt. It has absolutely nothing to do with food subsidies.
Chinese is easier than Latin. No concept of tense, very few pronouns, extremely consistent, modular grammar. Of course, learning those 5,000 or so characters can prove to be a little difficult. :)
Interesting link behind the 'this one' - it appears that bleach, degreasing preparations for home use, perfume and preparations for personal hygene are in the same category. This means you can't have Chanel no 5 bleach or Draino mouthwash. Alas for the lost marketing opportunities!
Quattuor res in hoc mundo sanctae sunt: libri, liberi, libertas et liberalitas.
1) You've never heard of Uruguay? Sister country to Paraguay?
/..
2) Some geeks understand that lawyers are occasionally necessary. Some of them are even good people! (But not "personal injury" lawyers)
3) Abuse is abuse. IP abuse is actionable, and something very near and dear to
4) The more obscure something is, the more geeks do like to talk about it.
"People who do stupid things with hazardous materials often die." -- Jim Davidson on alt.folklore.urban
So how can this be possible?
Hmmm... I like that term. "Nigel and The Internauts". In search of the Golde SuSE.
Did someone officially declare it open season on stupid patents? So what happens if you use one-click shopping on Barnes And Noble while using Linux? Do the patent police come burn your computer or something? "Hey, you can't do that!" *foom, up in flames*
Oh, by the way, I'm patenting air, so everyone stop breathing or I'll have you arrested for theft.
.cig - what you do after winning a good flame war
Not being an expert in Uruguian law or even in the whole of International Law, but being a fan of the Conflicts area of law...
It all will eventually return to enforcement, even assuming just for the sake of argument (big leap) that the claim to the name Linux is valid. Countries are always debating about the power of each others laws when applied extra-territorially. My Conflicts law book had a picture inside the front cover (a dedication of sorts - pictures are rare in law books) of an obscure Caribbean island's (perhaps Trinidad) capital building. The picture was captioned with a quotation from an English Lord that the laws of Trinidad cannot bind the entire world. It's a principal of self-determination that runs against this Uruguan's claim.
There is a longstanding international organization that handles these things: the World Intellectual Property Organization, http://www.wipo.org. And since I really don't know enough about it offhand to even speak ineloquently about it, I'll just leave that URL there for your own personal investigation into international trademark law. Whatever the outcome, I think it's a long time off - these kind of disputes never move quickly, especially across hemispheres.
==
"This is the nineties. You don't just go around punching people. You have to say something cool first."
At least it's not a cleaning product.
Sheepdot: Open Source good, Closed Source baaaaaaad!
Points (i), (ii), and(iii), really depend on what the laws in Uruguay say.
If the GPL is not enforceable under their laws (does anyone know for sure?) then point (i) is irrelevant.
Also, (point (ii)) it doesn't matter if the name LinuxTECH was coined to deliberately confuse people. What matters is if it is close enough to some other trademarked name (i.e. Linux) to legally be considered confusing (note: this is how it works in the US and Canada. I don't know about Uruguay). I don't know exactly what the criteria are for determining this, but I doubt that LinuxTECH would qualify (but maybe Lenux, Linex, or Linuks would...). Yes, it may be sneaky, but it is also legal and makes good business sense.
Point (iii) is like making a gamble. Basically, it must be shown that the term Linux is considered to refer to the product that we all know as Linux, and this must be shown in Uruguay. Otherwise, there is no existing Trademark. I don't know how popular Linux is in Uruguay, but the decision might just hinge around this concept.
Something worth noting: Uruguay is a party to the Paris Treaty, which means (as I understand it) that the date of filing is considered to be the date of filing in all other states that are party to the Paris Treaty, provided an application is filed within six months of this date. Obviously, Linux is Trademark in some of these states (i.e. The United States). But there are probably some states in which Linux is not a registered Trademark. Now what??? Essentially, it means that they could file for Trademark in these locations within six months, and if it is registered, then they would hold the registered Trademark in these locations, regardless of what happens now -- in other words, even if someone else files for Trademark in one of these countries, the date of the application in Uruguay would be the date of the application in other countries, provided the application by Mr. Francisco Pereira and Mr. Enrique Place de Cuadrois is made within six months.
At this point, the only thing that can be done is to fight the application in Uruguay. If it is accepted, then who knows what will happen next...
For more info on the Paris Treaty, go to http://www.wipo.org.
Here's the part that I think is rediculous. I don't think "all serious Linux users will avoid them like the plague". I think a great many will, but I think that pissing off a community of hackers and crackers with a stupid PR stunt/Monopolization attempt is more detrimental than simply getting a group of customers to turn their back on you. I wonder what their web address is. I'd be curious to see how quickly it gets defaced.
Network Security: It always comes down to a big guy with a gun.
>Hmmn. I'm not that familiar with SuSE's OS, but isn't it a violation of the various Free/Open Source licenses for them to grant exclusivity in distribution? I understand wanting control of the channel and all that, but don't they have to allow for redistribution of all of the free parts of their OS? And therefore they cannot say 'you have exclusive rights,' since that... well, EXCLUDES redistribution?
SuSe may not be able to prevent others from distributing Linux, but that doesn't necessarily prevent them from giving exclusive distribution rights to their distro. If there's any proprietary software in their distribution they can probably prevent its redistribution, and under any circumstances they can probably prevent redistribution of their packaged product.
There's no point in questioning authority if you aren't going to listen to the answers.
I think these guys are just trying to get us geeks back for laughing at that Simpsons where Homer called their country 'you-are-gay' ...
Did anyone from /. ask SuSE for a comment? I'd be interested to know where they stand on this.
s/capabilidad/capacidad/
s/respecto/respeto/
s/dé/da/ (not actually completely wrong, but sounds a bit strange)
s/proprio/propio/
There's other minor weird things here, but one comes specially to attention: the use of the formal pronouns ("usted", abbreviated "Vd", and associated verbal morphology) when insulting the addressee. It is usual to use the familiar form "tu" when insulting, specially when cuss words are used.
Still, for a second-language speaker of Spanish, this gets an "A", I'd say ;-)
---
Hmmn. I'm not that familiar with SuSE's OS, but isn't it a violation of the various Free/Open Source licenses for them to grant exclusivity in distribution? I understand wanting control of the channel and all that, but don't they have to allow for redistribution of all of the free parts of their OS? And therefore they cannot say 'you have exclusive rights,' since that... well, EXCLUDES redistribution?
The actual story, the trademark thing, that'll work itself out correctly. I'm more interested in this exclusivity subplot, and whether SuSE is willfully breaking license, or if this is a misunderstanding on someone's part (like mine, for instance), or what....
--
If worst comes to worst, I think RedHat could buy Uruguay and the patent office themselves.
Supposing the Uruguayan supplier is acting improperly, it would be a perfectly reasonable idea for Linux folk to "have a chat" with the nice folks at SuSE.
If they are allowing suppliers to act improperly, then it might be proper to let SuSE know that this is not acceptable to people that aren't in Uruguay.
For instance, if the situation is as suggested, it's reasonably likely that the local LUG may send a respectful letter to SuSE explaining how we might encourage members not to use SuSE's products.
If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.
What I think they're worried about is that anyone else trying to sell anything with the "linux" name on it in their country will be banned. You'd have to call it something else. Unless you can wing enough power to force change, but that involves Big Corporations and Political Pressure.
Also what's interesting is the Dilbert comic at the bottom of that same page.
The comic even has in it:
"Redistribution in part or in whole is strictly prohibited"
These guys just don't get it do they? =)
--
At the time, I could walk into a number of legitimate businesses and "purchase" software for about $2.00US per disk. The disks, of course, were copies. This was totally legal. I obtained a ton of nice games. It was great. Then one of the businesses was almost shut down because the owner had sold xeroxed copies of manuals. While it was legal to make copies of programs, copying manuals was definitely illegal. His business put up posters showing Uncle Sam stepping on Uruguay. Even though I am from the US, I found this really amusing and even sympathized. The amount charged for software in countries like Uruguay is extremely disporportionate to the amount of money the average person earns. The US software industry, with MS at the helm, is an oppressor of less wealthy nations and peoples.
Now, these jokers seem to be pulling some sort of scam in the that is the inverse of what I experienced. Perhaps the laws have swung in the opposite direction.
Suse is their supplier.
... harsh ... than a blacklist, and would have the advantages of rewarding the good players rather than only punishing the vultures. This begs a whole series of questions, such as who would be doing the rating and how, and how complaints like this would be processed, how to avoid improper "astroturf" complaints by competitors against one another, etc.
If Suse were made aware of the situtation through numerous angry but polite letters, they might well reconsider doing business with that entity. The taint of LunuxTech's reputation could easilly spread to Suse in that region, undermining Suse's ability to sell their product via any vendor. This is something Suse has an interest in preventing, and they might be able to exert some pressure on LinuxTech to behave in a manner more appropriate to the Linux community.
Of course, legal and "out-legal" action should continue in parallel.
Has anyone considered a "rating" page for Linux companies? Something that would let the unititiated, or someone who has been on vacation for three weeks, know how well a particular entity is behaving vis-a-vis the Linux community? This would be less
Thoughts?
The Future of Human Evolution: Autonomy
Remember the story about the Linux trademark in Korea? Does anybody have an update on this?
Life's a bitch but somebody's gotta do it.
2. Just because you've never heard of a Swiss company doesn't mean it isn't well known in Switzerland.
I assume it's well-known in Switzerland, it's a swiss company. The question is whether it's well-known internationally. And the fact that I've never heard of it suggests it's not well-known outside its own area (obviously, I don't think that's concrete evidence).
3. That's just begging the question. "Because they're evil, they shouldn't do this."
As far as trademark goes, consider this: if you were starting a Linux company in a country, and realized you were in danger of somebody evil trademarking the name, what could you do to protect yourself? Can you initiate a trademark in Linus' name? Probably not. *Somebody* has to own the trademark, otherwise all Linux businesses are in danger. Ideally, this would be a non-profit, but I don't know the details of Uruguayan trademark law, and I doubt you do either.
I haven't heard the LinuxTech side of this argument. I've heard the users' group side, and it isn't very well thought out. I'm just saying lets not shun and attack these folks until we actually have some real info.
...I wonder what else they'll try to trademark. Might they trademark "KDE" and "Gnome" too? Or maybe, if they're really serious about this, could they change their names to "Linus Torvalds"? This will probably be a lesson learned to the offenders, after they go out of buisiness because noone will buy from them. Fuck off guys, the Linux community doesn't need or want people like you.
In short, what these people are doing is PURE BS!
My plan is to pimp before they realize I'm a jackass. Hit 'em hard and fast.
But then I realized that I had Uruguay confused with Paraguay. A quick look at the map cleared that up.
I think these trademark issues that pop up around the globe are a great way to track the spread of linux. It's not really big in a country until someone thinks it would be profitable to corner the market right? Is anyone keeping a list of countries where this has happened and a date? In 3 years you could then make a movie where countries get colored in as someone tries to trademark linux. Speed it up enough and you can watch linux spread across the globe. This would be cool - assuming the trademark applications and such all get rejected - otherwise the film would be depressing.
--Shoeboy
The difference? The category of trademark. Note that the company has asked for a trademark related to computer services. One assumes they'd try to market themselves as the owner of Linux, confusing people. This is what trademark law was designed to avoid. If they had asked for a trademark related to say a dance company or something, who would care? (NB: The somewhat made-up nature of Linux might make this a little questionable, IANAL - yet. So don't start playing games with Coke or Nike or Microsoft or somebody.) As long as the trademarks are in different fields of use, two companies can have identical names. That's why Windows 99 Beer is perfectly okay.
This company looks quite decent, actually. However, some of the sections look like copied&&translated text rather than original writing. I don't know if it's a word-for-word copy, but the FSF section on their site looks awfully familiar. Of course, much of this is probably due to the Babelfishery (I don't think the site was created by "The equipment of LinuxTECH.", for example :)).
Gates' Law: Every 18 months, the speed of software halves.
If you had read the letter, you wouldn't have made that mistake.
Gates' Law: Every 18 months, the speed of software halves.
Is trademarking any different from corporate branding? If someone tried to trademark NikeLinux or CokeLinux, lawyers would be at your door the morning after they heard of it. Are Nike and Coke protected more because they cover several different markets (shoes/sports/clothing - softdrinks/sports/clothing), while Linux is "just an OS"?
If Nike and Coke have special rights because they have a brand name, we should promote the fact that Linux has an assortment of geek clothing as well. The unique rise in production of stuffed penguins in the last ten years is not coincidental.
Next, we take the bankrupt LinuxOne and turn them into our softdrink distribution company; 'LinuxOne, the refreshing Linux beverage.' PowerSolutions can sell our soda at Californian flea markets while giving away cds. Then come the promotional geek trading cards...
I did have a serious question but it seems to have slipped away.
"I have a cunning plan..."
And this would be the what? The "two wrongs make a right" philosophy? By advocating an ILLEGAL attack?
Open Source. Closed Minds. We are Slashdot.
Linus is from finland
"Suble Mind control? why do html buttons say submit?",
ReadThe ReflectionEngine, a cyberpunk style n
When that hypothetical day arrives in which a second language with the tenth part of the capabilidad Vista in the authors dominates You whose works -- and whose cause -- we already discussed, perhaps because then putas will be able to say to four words on the good spelling. But now, nor it is happened to him. Go bad-mannered that is You who do not realize respect due to these dear gentlemen! I assure to him that benefit will have translated this news not by his proprio, but by You That is, it cállese the snout, ungrateful idiot!
It didn't translate several swears (including puta), but the meaning shows through.
---
--
Internet Explorer (n): Another bug -- that is, a feature that can't be turned off -- in Windows.
Yes, this is offtopic, and I realize it will be moderated down quickly, but it deserves a bit more notice than the near automatic -1 moderation it recieved. The fat-time charlie online serial Give it a read, if only because you won't be hearing from the author in the Slashdot forums anymore.
/. radar long enough to be seen, eh fat-time?
And if you're an aspiring artist, perhaps you'll drop the fellow some mail. The serial is damn funny, but it would be even better with some fittingly surrealistic illustrations.
I knew +1 was good for something. Hope it stays on the
.sig: Now legally binding!
Folks take this with a bit of sarcasm. trickfish, I appologize for the flame ahead of time. My point is hopefully evident.
.org name, because after all, Joe User who has an intrest in linux farts has an aversion to that kind of domain. And of course, if I left open a similar domain name, and competition gobbled it up, they would be looking at a compettetors web site instead of mine. And Joe User who is interested in linux farts certainly wouldn't want to see if there is any other information on linux farts, maybe do a search, or type in alternate endings. Maybe they have a better site than you... The "other team" is still concerned with linux farts... the question is, who has more *usable* information.
Well, if eToys.com can own etoys.org, etoys.net, and even eToyssucks.com, shouldn't they buy up etoy.com as well since it is *close* to their name. Who cares if its another company...
Yes, say if I ran www.linuxfarts.org, specializing in linux farts (of all things), then I *must* be the sole expert in linux farts. Since obviously we're the experts, no one else should be allowed to own a linuxfarts domain, because we're the experts and we should get all the traffic.
Obviously can't market a
Why does this really happen though? Because we're breading stupider users...Why are we breeding stupider users? Because we tell them stuff we know is a lie and we call it marketing. Stuff like, "AOL gives me stuff that I can't find anywhere else on the web." Or eventually "We've got better HOWTOs on how to properly use LinuxFarts..." Its just a big lie. We've wrecked internet1 and turned it into a really trendy version of the Home Shopping Network. God, I dread the day Universities make the mistake of opening up I2 to corporations (who will once again claim "for research purposes" until they figure out some way to market their ideas)
Ok... so, that's my rant... a little discombobulated but that's my rant...
I'm sorry you were the author of the message that triggered it trickfish, I understand your sentiment... as corporately warped as it is...
You say you want a revolution?
For me the most interesting thing is the way people are tying trade marks to domains.
I work for a Management Consultant company looking at expanding into Internet Consultancy. We were just briefed by specialist IT lawyers in Aust to trademark ALL domain names to prevent Brand Erosion. With disputes over domain names going to court overhere and the fact that it is harder to buy a domain off (you have to buy the underlying business as well) a company or individual, trademareking a domain name has been seen as a short-cut to legally acquiring a domain name that was previously unavailable.
I like Shakespear best - wasn't it something like lets kill all the lawyers?
The MyTh - I am a figment of the Imagination - [Im Probably even not here]
okay, people, I'll go meta-moderate, just in case I get this one, but why is a post that:
1. incorrectly states someone is trying to "copyright" (not trademark) Linux
and
2. Advocates attempting a DOS against them
Moderated up as insightful? It's not really a troll, it's not really redundant, or anything, but plese, don't moderate this crap UP so that it appears at the top of the comments.
--Kevin
(sorry for being off topic)
We at UYLUG know that LINUX is a name that belongs to the community and its legal owner is Linus Torvalds. We applied registration to avoid improper trademark applications, as we resolved in our meetings and official acts since 1998. Both Linus Torvalds and Linux International are noticed about our application and our offer to transfer them the official proceedings. Heber Godoy - Andres Tarallo President - Secretary Uruguay Linux User Group
Responses to your responses:
2. Just because you've never heard of a Swiss company doesn't mean it isn't well known in Switzerland. There are countries in the world besides your own. And do you think it would be OK for a Uruguayan company to call itself RedHat or Microsoft or Ford?
3. I think they're pointing out that they are using the free, unrestricting nature of the Linux community at the same time as they are actively attempting to destroy it in Uruguay.
And lastly, trademarking something which you have no right to trademark in any circumstance is wrong. If it were your "small country", you might feel a little bit differently.
I'm cuurently in the process of patenting the letter 'e'
this way i can have exclusive rights to use it, and also i can charge people to use it. you can no longer say 'I'm a good worker', you must use the phrase 'I'm a good work-guy'.
GIVE ME A BREAK
'Mullethead. A hairstyle that's a way of life'
Anyway, it would be ridiculous to afford them trademark protection for the name Linux--even if that protection doesn't actually help!
And Rilke, as for saying that this only matters to Uruguay, and that the concerns of a User Group are not important -- shame on you! Without User Groups to defend the rights of the little people you'd see corporations like Microsoft and IBM swamping the legal system with all sorts of things. User Groups also do a helluva lot of the thinking; without them quite possibly the whole issue being debated (i.e. the Unix (read Linux) Operating System) would not have been born.
As for name copying -- well you may not have heard of LinuxTECH, but that's not the point! The point is this Uruguayan firm is obviously trying to double cross everybody. Let's list the points:
i. They get exclusive rights to redistribute SuSE -- I thought this was not allowed under the GPL???
ii. -- They name themselves LinuxTECH, either in a deliberate attempt to fool/swindle the general computing community in Uruguay or because they can't think of a good enough name by themselves.
iii. -- The registration application for registration of the LINUX name to the International class 42. Although it's possible for it to be granted it really shouldn't since "Linux" really isn't their name to trademark, and especially since the kernel itself is Copyright 91-94 by Linus himself.
It all looks sneaky to me!
With regard to the domain name thing though...the Uruguayans don't have a leg to stand on... As you say it's just like the difference between linux.com and linux.org.
What to do about it? Well I think people who are feeling evil could mount a DOS attack if they feel like it... Personally I don't think that Pereira and Place will listen to anyone. Hopefully the people who decide about trademarks will have the sense to research what Linux is and realise that they just can't have it!
This issue raises a point that has already been highlighted in a previous discussion in Slashdot, and I think it is the central point. First let me say what is not an issue here:
GPL isn't being broken in any way.
They applied for a trademark, not a patent (some still mistake one for the other).
They do not seem to be willing to enforce this trademark ownership. In their first page there is a button entitled "How to get Linux" which links to this page, which I dare to try to translate, despite my lousy Spanish (worse than my English!):
Linux is free and you don't have to pay for licenses or to obtain it. There are companies in the world market which take the burden to prepare Linux "distributions". These distributions are CD's that in genneral include an extensive set of applications, manuals, plus an applications that allows you to install and even administrate your system in a user-friendly way.
Many development hours are invested in these distributions so as the finished product owns nothing to its commercial alternatives, in most cases including 30 or more days of free installation support. Its cost is much more accessible than that of any commercial software.
Anyway, these companies have publicly available free internet sites where one can download or update these distributions.
It is worth clarifying that if you do not have the time or a very fast connection, it is always much more convenient to buy an already assembled and tested distribution.
Then you have links to the major distributors.
I am convinced that their intention is to protect themselves from an oportunistic move from someone else. I may be wrong.
What is really an issue here is that Linux (and GPL) seem to be pretty orphan when the time comes to protect trademarks and so on. I remember there was a company in Brazl back in 83 called "Microsoft", they started their business about the same time as M$, and the association which leads to the brand name seems to be quite an obvious one, so I don't have reasons to believe that they wanted to fool anyone into thinking they were something else other than themselves. A couple of years later, M$ was already established in Brazil and demanded them to change their name and got a court ruling for that, so the company was renamed "Multisoft". Now, who would act as a legitimate party in such cases so as to protect Linux's name and image? Linus owns the tm alright, but is he willing to put all the energy and resources needed in each case, considering he has other interests right now? (BTW, I'm damn curious about it!) Once we all have an interest in this, would it be fair to put such a burden on his shoulders?
-------------------------
-------------------------
"People ask FAQs all the time". - David Allen
"...what avail? All serious Linux users will avoid them like the plague."
Sorry, but I have to say something on this. The open source community will definitely avoid them like the plague. On this I have no doubt. BUT, Linux is starting to become commonly used in industries other than computing. And many people in these other industries (and even in the computing industry) really don't care about open source, free software, and the like. When it comes right down to it, these people have to answer to the bottom line (and marketing gimmicks, let's be honest here), and if they can get a product that does the job at a better price (or at least believe they can), they'll jump on it. They don't (and won't) care about the other "issues" regarding that product.
So, while it is likely that "serious Linux users" will boycott this and other companies, the reality (I feel) is that in the near future the "serious Linux users", or the proponents of open source, will begin to make up the minority of the Linux market.
This, unfortunately, is a side effect of Linux becoming a Mainstream Product, as opposed to something that "those computer guys in the basement like to play with." And if you want to fight it, you need to do more than complain (not directed at MostlyHarmless, but rather the general community) about what company X is doing. Start by educating yourself (if you haven't already) on what it means to Trademark, Patent, or enforce Copyright and Trade Secret, and what the differences are. Find out what the IP laws are in your country, and maybe neighboring countries and economic parters. And most importantly, understand these laws before complaining about them. And stop saying IANAL!!
If you want to stop the bandwagon, you can either do it from on board, or stand in front of it and get run over.
Trademark is a very funny thing. Many things are not trademarkable, e.g., commonly used terms, words that has other special meaning (this makes me wonder how windows get trademarked, or is it not trademarked?). I believe Linux fall into a commonly known terms that cannot be trademark, i.e. if registration office do their homework.
- Etam
Mostly, the bad guys online give themselves away with everything they do. They try and hide it, but... you can just smell it. The lack of feeling for what a community is. The money-oriented thinking. The Microsoftisms in their HTML. Look at the Linux One pages for an example: the stench of ignorant corporate greed and personal small mindedness is hard to ignore.
Well, LinuxTECH Uruguay may be evil for all I know, but... they sure don't smell bad. They come across like one of us. Their site design is nice and clean and quick. The biggest giveaway is their huge collection of links - the bad guys don't link outside their own site in case you might reach another side of the story. Their news page even includes a link to a Slashdot story - and often refers to GNU/Linux.
I'm just convinced that these people are on our side. I hope this can be resolved to everyone's satisfaction soon.
--
Xenu loves you!
So let me get this straight... geeks in general don't like lawyers, the legal system, ad nauseum, preferring to code instead. But while most NORMAL people could care less about another trademark battle, the geeks are out on jihad because somebody in a country I never even heard of is trying to trademark an operating system that the average person still doesn't even know about! I think the more obscure it is, the more geeks like to talk about it... =)
Try http://babelfish.altavista.com/cgi-bin/translate?d oit=done&urltext=http: //www.linux.com.uy/&lp=es_en.
Gates' Law: Every 18 months, the speed of software halves.
O sea, cállese el hocico, idiota ingrato!
Sure, they can go right ahead and try to trademark the name.
/. occasionally if not daily. The Uruguayan company has now lost a huge chunk of their market who will never want anything to do with them because of their animosity towards the Linux community.
Know what? They may even win. But to what avail? All serious Linux users will avoid them like the plague. This is very similar to the LinuxOne claim, except LinuxOne has a vast market of people who can't tell the difference and haven't hear all the bad pr surrounding them (or so they claim). On the other hand, this company is reselling a standardized distribution aimed at the existing Linux market, so they need all the good press they can get. In the Linux market, most of the purchases are made by technically educated people who probably read
void recursion (void)
{
recursion();
}
while(1) printf ("infinite loop");
if (true) printf ("Stupid sig quote");
Friends don't let friends misuse the subjunctive.
However, when the case was finally heard, the Music TV people won.
So I guess even if some rogue company tries to trademark Linux in Sri Lanka, the international trademark will prevail.
I'll check on this and write a letter to my friends in LUG to, if possible, obtain a registration on behalf of Linus.
Not being a very big Law fanatic, especially not an Uruguayan law fanatic what I would like to know is what, if any impact this would have outside of Uruguay? Would this impact the Linux Community in such a way that at some point if these ppl are not stopped that it could hinder sales of or use of the Linux name internationally? I'm not saying lets just leave Uruguay hanging on it's own rope by any means. Personally I feel that there's not much to get all stirred up about. Now if this company started actually trying to oust the ULUG from their domains I'd expect to see full community support and also quite a large stir over the issue.
But are we really looking into this all too far. There is one other patent pending on the Linux name that I know of by a laundry detergent company, yet there wasn't a large outcry about this. I think maybe this hits closer to home since they are trying to patent it on the Computer Industry level rather then on a level that is completely non-related. Suse can let this company have the exclusive right if they want so long as they provide the src for any GPL'd software within their distro as far as I know. I could be wrong.
In the end I think they will either be denied or it just won't really matter. I'm sure this has been done in some other country by now. After all, now there are Win98 Cigarettes, but we didn't raise a stink about that. I know I got a good laugh about it.
Trying to be different, just like everyone else.
IMPERATIVE: .org site, spend the $$ to register your .com and .net domains.
If you run a linux
Why? Because we aren't going to move linux further into the mainstream without marketing ourselves successfully to at least some degree, and all the Joe Users out there that can only type .com are going to end up at some other moron's site, not yours.
We have to be sneakier than the other team, and grab domains first, as well as other pre-emptive marketing strikes. As for patents, I have no idea how to be proactive there. Lawyers speak up please!
Windows is a registered trademark, at least in the US, probably in every country with a trademark office (and MS is busy setting up the trademark offices for the rest of the world, I'm sure).
I would guess that the reasoning is that even though "Windows" is a common term, it isn't a common term referring to computer software. You probably couldn't trademark "Operating System" as the name for your OS, or "Windows" as the name of your glass company, or Apple as the name of your fruit distribution company, but Apple as the name of a computer company is fine.
Area of business is a key point in trademark disputes. Apple Corps (Apple Core?) sued Apple Computer for using the name Apple in relation to some sort of music software, because they are a music company. If I start, for example, Penguin Software, Penguin Books wouldn't have a claim against me for trademark infringment. If I planned on starting up a computer press after the company was larger, Penguin would be a bad choice for a name, because then Penguin books would have a claim against me, and I wouldn't be able to use "Penguin" in relation to books. (yes, there is a bookshelf next to this computer.)
If you mean the way Kleenex and Xerox are tryign to avoid being diluted, I don't think this would apply to Linux, unless people started using Linux to refer to, e.g. freebsd. Linux is definitely trademarkable, in my opinion, but it shouldn't be granted to LinuxTech in Uruguay, because it isn't *their* trademark.
--Kevin
But, what I do know is that trademark registration, while useful, isn't as powerful as you might think. In fact, even if these guys get Linux trademarked in Uruguay, I'd go so far as to say they could still get beaten in court if they tried to block sale/distribution of the Linux OS.
A trademark is protected even if it isn't registered, as long as it has the (tm) symbol on it. Registration simply provides a means by which one can publicly declare their claim over a trademark. This way, if someone else tries to use this trademark and pleads ignorance, you can simply say that they should have looked at the public TM database and are therefore in the wrong.
Now, if LinuxTECH had come up with the name Linux on their own, and registered it for trademark in their country, then they'd probably retain trademark rights to 'Linux' if it went to court. But, in this case I'm sure it would be VERY simple to prove that these guys previously saw the Linux name, marked as a (tm), and willfully chose to duplicate and try to register it. If it can be proved that they saw Linux used as a trademark in their country, and yet willfully used the name in violation of those declared IP rights, then they should be found to have no rights over the Linux TM.
This is all assuming that they even try to claim control over the TM and block the sale/dist of Linux at all - if not, then no one has to really care. But if they do, the only hard part would be proving that they saw 'Linux' used as a trademark in their country by someone else already. And if they were reselling distributions of Linux beforehand, it shouldn't be too hard to prove that they've had at least that much contact with Linux previously. :)
You know what to do with the HELLO. ...
Help create an open-source world
This may indeed be an evil company, but the open letter just confuses things and makes some pretty dubious points IMHO. Some of this confusion might come from the English translation though.
1. The first point seems pretty unique to Uruguay, and I don't really understand it. How did they get exclusive representation to SusE? Through the gov't, or through SusE??
2. (they copied a "well known" swiss company's name)
I've honestly never heard of the Swiss LinuxTech before. And I don't really see a problem with a Uruguayan company having the same name as a Swiss company.
3. (the name "LinuxTECH" contains "Linux")
I see nothing wrong with the name LinuxTECH. That's just a silly complaint. Lots of company names contain the name Linux or even Windows. For example "Linux Today", "Linux Journal", etc. And notice how complaints about this totally contradict the previous point.
4. (they registered www.linux.com.uy, even though linux.org.uy existed).
The same linux.org vs. linux.com exists in the root domain, and nobody cares. If I were starting a company down there, I'd certainly gobble up that domain.
They Uruguayan users group might have some real complaints, but their open letter doesn't help their argument any. OTOH, LinuxTECH could easily just be a decent company who somehow pissed off a few members of a small users group. There's really no way to tell from this info.
Also, trademarking "Linux" in a small country isn't evil in itself; they might just be protecting themselves against somebody else doing the same thing. It all depends on how they use it.
Anyway, the link:
http://www.adeco.com/general_info.htm
Check out either the Trademarks link or the Acrobat file titled 'Intellectual Property Overview'.
You know what to do with the HELLO. ...
Help create an open-source world
We at SuSE are concerned about the Linux name issues worldwide. SuSE even works together with Linus Torvalds to mantain the rights of the name Linux. Therefore we will talk to the Uruguayan reseller and find a solution for this issue.
The open letter sounds very agressive and desperate. Please don't forget: A "reseller" buys software packages and re-sells them. And that's it.
Regards,
James S
SuSE Linux Ltd.
-- James