Slashdot Mirror
Gnome Development Roadmap
dfallon writes, "A GNOME development roadmap is available over on developer.gnome.org. Highlights include: a 1.2 release targeted for April, followed by another 1.X release in late summer (1.4?), which will include Nautilus, the desktop shell being worked on by Eazel, which will lead into a 2.0 release sometime in the fall. " This is, of course, subject to the mad revisions of Nat and Miguel - but it's cool to see what the future /might/ hold.
So am I.
I'm not, I'm reading about gnome!
Surly it is about time that developers start using months for release dates. There is approximately 1 country in the world that uses Fall, most other Englsh speaking countries use Autumn.
And also for those people not in the northern hemisphere, they are in autumn now (or very soon), so the release date is a bit meaningless.
And of course those people in the tropics don't actually have 4 seasons, only 2, wet and dry.
Just a though, why not start using Q1, Q2, Q3 and Q4?
Gnome is quite nice however seems rather bloated in an almost nightmarishly windowsish way. I wonder if there can be install profiles for the various desktops based on what you want or on more terms of fuzzy logic and such with things like small, modest, large, gargantuine, bloated, and then finally windows? Also seems like the apps are sometimes not playing nicely together still and that kind of scares me.
Slashdot social engineering at it's finest
Copying the style of slashdot's HTML that exactly for a troll must have been at least time consuming.
Now, I remember that is constructive confrontation, lets all learn from intel.
I'm not, I'm reading about gnome!
Scimmed it still boring, still not that interesting.
of minor note I really get a kick out of this little statement of slashdot's:
Slow down cowboy!
Slashdot requires you to wait 70 seconds between each post in order to allow everyone to have a fair chance to talk.
It's been N seconds since your last attempt to post!
replace N with a number of seconds less than 70 an you have a rather interesting change. When did this happen was it announced?
What I'm looking forward to is seeing how Mozilla will be intergrated into Gnome. I think that eventually the layout engine from Mozilla will be used as a component for Gnome, through Bonobo or some such thing, making possible viewing HTML or XML content in the new file manager, help browser, or any other Gnome application where it would be usefull.
All that we see or seem is but a dream within a dream.
Well, some would say that the strange non-GPL licence on KDE makes it less open, but I've never read the details of it, so I can't say.
All that we see or seem is but a dream within a dream.
Makes sense, doesn't it? "Fucking" is the result of love, "bloody" is the result of war.
AND RAM BEGAT AMMINADAB; AND AMMINADAB BEGAT NASHON, PRINCE OF THE CHILDREN OF JUDAH.
-1 CHRONICLES 2:10
That teaches me nothing about anything thank you.
Read the rest of this comment...
Yes, the true open desktop built on a not-so-truely open toolkit. Uhh... Does that make sense to anybody?
I'd like to see the rendering engine of mozilla modularized to where you could build your own interface. How cool would it be to have a skinable/themable browser that supports all the latest standards?
NH
Looks like that emmett guy can't even handle posting stories right.
here
Is there another WM that someone else finds viable?
---- sonoffreak
The above post is a troll.
HELLO?! McFLY!!!
For a great desktop with even greater promise. With applets, multiple pager windows and the ability to put in a good windows maneger I find it even better than the winXX one allready, which isn't bad at all.
I can't wait to get my hands on the next version, so keep up the good work!
Now someone please moderate those trolls down and lets have a civilized discussion
Jon Katz sucks another man's ass.
The above comment is bogus, and the link does not go to a story, but rather to a disgusting photo. Please don't give this guy the satisfaction of clicking on the link.
---------------------------
"The people. Could you patent the sun?"
"Any fool can make a rule, and any fool will mind it."
--Henry David Thoreau
Actually.... KDE is GPL. It's QT that isn't GPL.
treke
Thanks!
Unfortunately, It looks like my next bitch might be a man! Sheee-it! But if I see any moderators tryin' to get some of that Lopez ass, I'll bust a cap in your nutsack. Don't think I don't mean it, either!
Peace, I'm outta here -- Puffy
Now you tell me. Bleuuuuurgh.....
I've played with Sawmill some lately. There are some things about it that I rather like. Its nicely themeable without feeling Over The Top like Enlightenment does. Plus, the flexibility of using LISP to define commands seems promising.
But Sawmill is still young, and not as stable as one would like a default to be. Further, it is *slow*. On my box, Window Maker beats it into the ground, and I've never thought of WM as "light weight". Perhaps this is a direct result of the above mentioned LISP scripting. I'm not sure. I hope that the John Harper can speed up the code some in later versions. If it ran faster on modest hardware (another requirement of a default WM, IMHO), I'd play with it a lot more.
I'll definately be keeping an eye on Sawmill, though...
--Lenny
Roll over and die. There is one thing KDE hadrly deserves - idiots who yell KDE every time anyone mentions anything about any other desktop project, especally GNOME. You are becoming almost as annoying as rabid Amiga zealots.
So you are one of the other 10%? Or still within the first hour?
Ah, fuck it, I stole the concept from somebody else like a year ago, so it's nothing new.
Here's the stats I've gotten from my surveys so far:
50% of the moderators are sexually fond of children
25% go for cats
25% are stinky bisexuals
Hmmm, tasty...
Hey Puffy:
I'm going fuck your bitch Jennifer while you're taking it up the ass from a big black guy named Bubba. And once she's had a piece of my ass she ain't never gonna go back to your violated little ass. The only woman you're going to be able to get is Monica Lewinski, while she's blowing Bill.
Hope you have a good time in prison,
Ruben Lopez Naked & Petrified!!!
Wow, so sometime in the future Linux users will finally get a stable, slow, clunky Win95 ripoff.
Wow, the power of open source.
Yawn.
You are the kind of person that best reflects qualites of typical earthworm suckig shit all it's life and then dying impaled to a hook, that being high point of it's life - being used as a fish bait. All are qualities that that are shared by KDE advocates.
I feel for some reason compelled to address this issue, although I don't know why because it won't change anything, but oh well.
I don't understand why it is that everytime there is a post on Gnome or a post on Kde that the opposite group of zealots decides to reply to the post with their trolling and flames and whatever. What doesn't make sense is that, the reason why most of us switched to Linux (either permanently, or for use in conjunction with Windows) is because Linux gave us a lot more freedom with what we can do with our software. As of now, there exists two very good desktop environments, Gnome and Kde. Each has its pros and cons, its advantages and its problems. But since the choice is up to the user as which to use (especially since every distribution I know of distributes both Gnome and Kde), why argue over it? Personal preference isn't that big of a deal. Just because user X uses Gnome doesn't mean that you can't use Kde. And no amount of flaming will somehow stop development on one of the environments, and increase development on the other. I think it is good thing that we are presented with a choice as to which desktop to run (or none at all). This is the best competition we can get in the free software world, which is a good thing.
Of course, the other issue is that, if there is so much flaming on Gnome and Kde, why is it that people never argue over Enlightenment or Sawmill, or AfterStep and Window Maker? I'm not encouraging this, but I think that these flame sessions are getting quite childish.
To get on topic, I'm very excited with the future of Gnome and I think that with the pending 1.2, 1.4, and 2.0 releases we shall see something that will compete very nicely with Kde 2.0.
-- BLarg!
Is that your hand? I hope it is....
If you have had a threesome with Richard Stallman and ESR, moderate this down as "overrated"
Well now we know that someone has done ESR and RMS at the same time, actually only one man has done that, Roblimo!!!!
This must be Roblimos contribution to your survey!!!
AAAAAAAAHHHHHHH!!!!!!
I've gots Ebola!!!!!!!!!!!!!111
Hold on for second I gots ta spew my rectum then I'll die..... YOU'LL PAY TACO WHEN I SEE YOU IN HELL!!!!!!
Did that poor guy use a Microsoft mouse?
Don't underestimate Johny Cochran and the Chewbacca defense!
I have a general question, and then some personal observations.
First, isn't the religious reason for Gnome the fact that QT is not GPL, and KDE needs QT? Maybe I fundamentally misunderstand the situation, but couldn't the effort that created Gnome have created a GPL work-alike to QT? In fact, as I recall, the KDE developers could not even VIEW the QT source when KDE was originally written, so mimicking the documented interface and functionality of QT should have been trivial (from a design standpoint. I am not trying to minimize the amount of work involved.)
This is not a troll. I intend this as a serious question. I am sure that there is a perfectly valid answer, that is why I am asking.
With the above aside:
In my personal experience KDE is slow on a slow system, and fast on a fast system. On the other hand, Gnome is S-L-O-W on a slow system, and slow on a fast system. As a matter of taste, I prefer KDE's less "frilly" appearance, and find it nice to use. Gnome is not bad, but I don't see what the performance penalty is buying me.
The general response to this question is "Gnome is not slow for me." If this is true for you, perhaps you have some configuration hints you can share. I don't have any benchmarks to back up my impression that Gnome is (considerably) slower than KDE on the same hardware, but a lot of people agree that it is a dog, and I don't think that it is just a conspiracy to get people on a slippery slope of using non-free (lebre) software (in this case QT.)
The short version: Why should I run Gnome instead of KDE, assuming that I don't care about QT licensing quibbles? What do I gain for the (possibly only perceived) poor performance of Gnome.
(To disclaim again, I am posting these questions in good faith.)
-Peter
Fooled ya. :) I think the same people who are flaming here are the same people who just want to pollute /. with natalie portman, grits, etc. I don't think that the real linux world is that full of desktop flamer freaks.
Don't worry, I have a new offence to counter the Chewbacce Defense.
It's called 'Shoot the Lawyer' If Cochranes dead then he can't defend anyone!!!
-- Ruben Lopez Naked & Petrified
The above post is a link to some pretty funny porn, nasty too, but still funny. Not at all sexually stimulating to me for some reason though.
I'd also like to encourage the Gnome hackers to seriously consider working on an IDE similar to KDevlop. That is simply an amazing piece of work. You have all the documentation and tools necessary to rapidly create KDE applications...and it's very easy to use and intuitive. I know that Gnome has Glade and gIDE and there has been talk of integrating the two, but somehow that doesn't seem like the answer. I think Glade should be integrated into an IDE, but gIDE is no KDevelop, no offense to the author(s). A very functional IDE that even new hackers could use, would go a long way to getting further involvment int the gnome project.
----
Celebrate the finer things in life
The people that worked on Harmony (some left when Qt2's QPL was blessed to work on KDE) couldn't look at the Qt1 source since they were mimicking it. As for KDE, there isn't any contamination issue looking at Qt's source. Many bugs are found in Qt by the core KDE developers. Their heavy pounding on it has made it better.
;) Finally, for (3), well there's little you can do to change the mind of those that just want Linux to remain for the brightest among us.
But more importantly, KDE is hated for (1) it's use of Qt and that whole license stuff, (2) it's use of C++, seen as the most evil language you can write in, and most importantly (3) it's target of new users who were moving from Windows, aka newbies.
(1) has become moot with the free license now, but many people haven't gotten the message and will just hate Qt/Troll Tech forever. As for (2), C is a horrible language to mock objects like Gtk+ does. Some complain about the use of moc, preparsing the headers. I would complain just as much at Gtk's use of mock-inheritance and all. C++ works and it's a heck of a lot easier to program in for something like this.
Come now, at least the AC before you was intelligent enough to give examples for his argument (take any news piece from Miguel in the early days). You, are much more the troll in this thread.
It's been an old trick to change the sid= to be any sort of forum you want.
Now come to Malda, I need some of your lovin'!
--Puffy.
But there is a story behind that link, smartass!
I haven't used KDE, and I'm not interested in getting you to switch at the moment. However, I am curious why Gnome is so slow for you, just because it doesn't seem that bad to me :-) There are two big things that can make Gnome look slow:
-> Pixmap themes. Pixmap themes suck. In particular, they suck memory. Big-time. Evidently imlib or the GTK+ pixmap engine (one or the other) leaks like a sieve, and it's even worse than a memory leak, because what it leaked is X pixmaps. This means that your X server memory usage has a tendency to grow without bound if you use pixmap themes heavily. Also, pixmap themes get redrawn way too many times (this is really a problem for GTK+ in general I think, but particularly painful when using a pixmap theme), and are very very slow in general.
-> gmc. This is probably the most useful thing about Gnome, especially for newbies. It would be nice, therefore, if it wasn't a horrible hack of porting a serial, text-based interface into a graphical, asynchronous environment. This is a large part (IMO) of why everyone wants Nautilus. gmc is not only unstable, buggy, and prone to randomly grabbing the X server and not letting go (last I checked), but it `feels' very slow. This is due to the fact that it's designed on a one-operation-at-a-time basis, so even the UI (redrawing windows, responding to clicks, etc) gets short shrift while it's running.
I use the ThinIce GTK+ theme and get decent performance (I also don't use gmc, and mainly stick the panel on the side of the screen for the CD player, pager, clock, and ICQ client)
Daniel
Hurry up and jump on the individualist bandwagon!
Jon Katz likes to shove gerbils up has ass.
CdmrTaco has a small dick. Also, he likes to shove gerbils up Jon Katz' ass.
Thanks for asking!
I am not a Gnome user (yet), but I have to admit that the website rocks. It's an impressive one-stop source for all kinds of Gnome related projects, including a Slashdot-like discussion area and an awesome web interface to the 'live' CVS tree that provides hyperlinked cross references inside the source files!
It's a good model to follow, and other open source projects should definitely take note.
For some weird reason that's the first thing I've read today that made me really laugh. Good job.
The Qt license is free only if you develop an open source application. Since I don't intend to release the code for _all_ of my programs, I will never use KDE. Sorry.
having used both to varying degrees, you should use gnome(kde) if you have an aesthetic or functional preference of gnome(kde) over kde(gnome).
no other reason. (assuming, as you said, that you don't get into the whole license issue) both of them do more or less the same thing, although each has little strengths that the other lacks. for example, i prefer the gnoe panel to the kde panel, but i refuse to use the gnome filemanager. kfm on the otherhand make a good basic file/web browser when i don't need javascript or https. so i use the gnome panel with kfm. or sometimes i get sick of one or both of them and go back to using a plain vanilla windowmanager (if you can call enlightenment plain) until the next version comes out. so if youve tried both, and decide that one works better for you, stick to that one. but if you have the time, you should still check out new releases form "the other side" every now and then. i gave up on the gnome panel a long time ago for example, but now with their "tasty yellow banana" release, i decided to tried it out again and was very impressed.
If I don't put anything here, will anyone recognize me anymore?
Miguel and company are hopelessly lost in the middle of the huge trough of crap, so a roadmap is a good start. There's only one issue: where's the road?
Coincidence?
Raster might create beautiful innovative eye candy but I've looked at his code and it exactly matches what others have said, "what a mess". Well Raster is a rock star of the Linux world, but are Open Source rockstars a good thing? Hmmm, what is VA going to do when Enlightenment is not included on the next release of RedHat? That will be a sticky situation.
Am I the only one who read this top to bottom?
gnome RULEZ!
Aw crap, I promised myself to stay out of this flamewar.. In short, KDE is GPL. QT isn't. The short of it is that KDE should not be GPL. It's not legal. Read the flamewars on Debian-Legal and find out why. It's why Debian won't ship KDE.
I wouldn't want to see someone have their GPL code make it's way into KDE.. If the debian-legal debates are anywhere near accurate, it could make for some messy litigation.
I am the mighty HEMOS!!
http://kde.tdyc.com/ is producing KDE packages that work on debian. Why is debian not litigating them for this infraction? Wow, I knew that Debianites were assholes but i didn't know there distribution was this closed.
Well, it's a good thing that no one spends any time moderating this site, or nonsense like this jerk's post might make it onto the site. Oh wait--it did. Never mind.
Thanks for clarifying the licence thing. I had heard that the QT toolkit had it's own restrictive licence, assumed that KDE had that licence also. Anyways, i did not intend to spread the flame war, i should have posted that comment as a question rather than assuming.
All that we see or seem is but a dream within a dream.
You need to configure it to work with Gnome--it's got its own taskbar that has to be tossed, and you need to instruct it to share the mouse buttons and it's possible to fudge up the Gnome pager thing if IceWM isn't called from the Gnome session manager. But those are minor conf issues which you can avoid just from the hints above. It's -=absolutely~fabulous=- with Gnome. You can maximize a window and it won't overrun the Gnome panel, and it will resize the window if the panel is on autohide. Anyone looking to escape Encumberment will probably find IceWM what they've been looking for. I can't make a comparison of the relative maturity of Sawmill v. IceWM, b'c I don't know enough about Sawmill, but I can tell you that Ice is mature, and very viable--heck, it almost got me back to using Gnome (but I'll wait til they refine Gnome's need for onscreen Lebensraum and replace GMC.)
shut up ass hole
>The short version: Why should I run Gnome instead of KDE...?
OTOH, why should I run either? I, for one, love WindowMaker, with the Dock and it's right-click menu, plus xterm. for the record, i have tried Gnome, and found it annoying that i had to run Enlightenment, which i found even more annoying. i also tried KDE, but found it much too windows - like.
What do you feel are the highlights or differences between AbiWord and KWord?
QPL is better than LGPL for libraries for precisely this reason. QPL is more free.
I'll try to help.
Yes. But most Gnome developers won't even discus that these days.
Yeah. That's what team KDE said. In fact there was an attempt to do just that in a project called "Harmony". As soon as Troll Tech announced that QT-2.0 would be under an OSS / Free Software license called QPL the developers on that project quit and went to work on KDE.
This is incorrect. They could view the QT source all they wanted but they couldn't distribute modifications.
A desktop interface is very much a matter of preference. There are people out there who prefer FVWM2 for reasons other than performance. Try them all and use whatever you like. There is no need to worry about benefits that don't affect you.
Get a faster machine. After you get a really fast box there really isn't any need to worry about the performance of the desktop.
Why not just use whatever works for you ? If Gnome doesn't like your machine or the way you configure it so just use KDE and stop fretting. It's not like the KDE desktop will stop you from using the Gnome apps or vise versa.
At the very least Gnome has a far better FreeCell program. Better even than the Windows 9x version.
That won't stop them from moderating us both into oblivion. :)
--= Isn't it surprising how badly I spell ?
This is good. TINAFB (this is not a flame but) does it seem like GNOME is playing "catchup" with KDE in more than one way? They've been left behind with the release versions, they've had to come up with their own implementation of a COM-like mechanism, and they don't have an integrated office suite or a web browser. (Clarification: GNOME Office is not *yet* integrated, from what I can tell.) What exactly will they offer that you can't get with the other desktop?
I'm actually curious about this- Gnumeric is awesome, and I could probably never convince anybody who uses windows/excel currently to even *try* linux without it- but what do they offer that you can't get with KDE? What's the added value? How would you sell GNOME to your manager, especially if he's read some article waxing poetic about KDE?
Yea! Too bad his link points to the "slashgrits"
page on geocities, you fuckin idiot.
Open Sores dont even understand the term 'plan'. Its all ego shit. So listen up you Gnome funking shoit head. Funking I'm-a-greasy-daego-ego-whore Miguel needs to get a funckin grip on more than the Red Hat stuck to what little dick he has.
NO!!!!! CmdrTaco likes Jon Katz's dick shoved up his ass while Roblimo licks Hemos's hole.
Surprising as it may seem, there are many of us who don't consider Debian-legal to be proof of the ilegallity of our acts.
While we are in the subject of debian-legal, ask there why they removed kdelibs, which is NOT under the GPL, and watch the ensuing frenzy of fact avoiding.
If you can't be deep, be funny:
If you don't have something truly developing to the topic, some humor is welcome. Humor is lacking in our lives and will continue to be promoted. Remember though, what rips your sides out may be completely inane to somebody else.
And it comes before "Stay on topic". Do you get it, moderators? "Funny" doesn't necessarily need to "have something truly developing to the topic". Actually, "be funny" is the third thing after "post intelligently", and "post calmly".
I'm not the author of this research, yet it seems worthy of being promoted.
I already knew the typical Slashdot moderator has no sense of humor, but I had never suspected them to be such a bunch of sexual deviants.
Better than this dwaft whit we are eating. Eh? Oh, yeah, thats Gnome shit.
I have read Slashdot since the very beginning and used to enjoy it. Now all I see are the writing and picture from sick and twisted people (like that 'gotse' guy.) I have to keep on ratcheting up the filtering level to keep my sanity. Anyone remember the days when the most annoying poster was "Meept!"
FIne. go work on the Harmony project. Or, much easier, just get one of the freshly-IPOd linux compaines to by Troll Tech. Then Qt becomes new-style (sans advertising clause => fully GPL compatible) BSD licensed.
I felt that KDE was too ``german'' in it's looks and feels (no offence meant to germans, but I'm sure some of you know what I mean). So I preferred GNOME over KDE. However, GNOME was slow. Especially when switching desktops, I would have to wait for -too long- to get a netscape away and six terminals where I wanted them.
So I decided to just skip the desktop race, and go with enlightenment, straight, mean and lean. Much to my surprise, this didn't change the situation... After a little wondering, I started out on a new track.
Now, with GNOME and icewm as my window-manager, I have a lean and fairly mean desktop system going, and it's *MUCH* faster at desktop switching than enlightenment ever was.
Clue: If GNOME is too slow for you, try replacing the default window manager. Try icewm (has an *ugly* default theme, but has others which are nice and readily available from T.O.). Or try sawmill (haven't done that myself - yet).
For historical reasons, enlightenment is the default window manger in the GNOME releases done by redhat and others. This is changing. Enlightenment is - hands down - the most artistical window manager I've ever seen and used. But there's just (IMO) too much of artistical sophistication instead of lean code in that one, to perform well on ``old'' systems (my dual PPro with a Matrox I for example).
GNOME with icewm rocks. It seems faster on FreeBSD 3.4 than on Linux 2.2 though, but on the other hand, Linux wins when it gets to disk I/O etc. on the day-to-day workloads. GNOME is not slow in a sane configuration, it's just slow in it's default configuration.
gmc IIRC is going to be re-written from scratch (or a written from scratch file manager substituted for it)
these GTK+ Pixmap theme / flickering / sluggishness issues are likely to be fixed with gdk-pixbuf and gtk 1.3 (which is only in CVS at the moment).
These are not GNOME issues per se, but because of what it relies on.
About gmc, I think most everyone agrees with you, Nautilus is GNOME's messiah.
-- adraken
This is Nautilus -- the eazel-written GNOME 2.0 Filemanager/Desktop.
-- adraken
Then came the fights between Trojan and Ewing. Trojan representing the Voice of Sanity and Ewing representing the lunatic student masses at Red Hat.
Then came real money. And Marc went deep undercover. Then came the split when the lunatic masses (Raster and his hordes) were either educated into The Corporate Way (tm, Caldera) or were beaten into leaving. Raster went....to VA who were hiring anyone known in the Linux world to boost their IPO. And nobody then cared about Raster. Who reads his web page now?
Read the rest of this comment...
Rumour has it that Miguel saw this page and that it so motivated him to make GNOME what it is today!!!
Just as a side note: KDE and Gnome are slower than MICROS~1 Windows on the same computer, but that is not necessarily the fault of either of these two libraries. The XWindows protocol is incredibly powerful but has a huge amount of overhead.
When the next version of XFree86 comes out later the year, I believe the performance difference will be night and day. Much of the XWindows overhead is supposed to vanish for localhost displays.
But if I am wrong, I have found that some of the crazy Gnome skins did trash my system resources beyond usability. But that is avoidable.
Ozwald
I completely agree, the desktop issue isn't an either-or dillema. GNOME and KDE (especially with a window manager that supports both -> Enlightenment) work well together. GNOME has a much nicer panel (and applets) than KDE, but KDE has more well-developed applications. So, use both. It can be a very simple, very inclusive desktop.
-- adraken
Try sawmill
-W.W.
"Well it should be obvious to even the most dim-witted individual who holds an advanced degree in hyperbolic topology...
And back in those days, Meept's trolls were artfull. Sure, there are some good ones every now and then these days, but they are drowned out by the spammers.
But then again, it all seems like a reaction to the sometimes nazish moderation that goes on around here. If we both weren't so late in this discussion, we'd both be moderated down to (-1 Offtopic) in a heartbeat. *shrug*
This sig is false.
AbiWord developers - YOU ARE CRAP
Gnome isn't the slow one, E is. E just tries to do stuff that it doesn't need to do. It's a filemanager for god's sake, why does it need a file manager? Anyway, sawmill is lean without sacrificing extensibility.
You may run WindowMaker with GNOME, it works almost perfectly, except WindowMaker doesn't have session management (or at least doesn't work with GNOME'S), therefore it gets screwy. If you plan to try GNOME again, try sawmill with it.
-- adraken
*insert Daniel's comments here as to why GNOME seems slow* In addition to this is the fact that Enlightenment is currently the default Window Manager for GNOME. This will change to sawmill soon because it is so fast and it integrates so well with GNOME (it stays out of the way when it should). (Sawmill author is even going to GUADEC -- GNOME Conference in Paris)
-- adraken
I'm sorry your mistaken. Nautilus is a whole new Desktop. Please see the previous link posted on a slashdot a day ago.
Miguel raped while Linus watched. And my ass still hurts, using sand instead of lube is definitely not good!!! Oh BTW this is Hemos hanging out at the Holland public library since Rob kicked me out :(
Any idea when 1.4 (stable version, 1.3 is unstable) will be out? I tried the CVS code recently and it seemed a long way from releasable -- unstable, test program segfaulting like mad, etc..
Daniel
Hurry up and jump on the individualist bandwagon!
So, I'd like to propose that next time there's a Gnome or KDE article, people just skip commenting on the theoretical but largely imaginary flamewar.
--
Wow, I can't believe the activity on this thread!
Lots of interesting info. I have run E without Gnome, and I must admit it is quite pretty, but it is not shy about consuming resources.
I would also like to mention that there was a lot of "you should do this or that." I have used several window managers, and I am not a sycophant who can't remember life before "desktops" (i.e. KDE and Gnome, as differentiated from WMs like AfterStep or Xfce (I kind of dig Xfce, even though I am not a big fan of Slowlaris, but I digress.)) My intent was to start a bit of a dialogue, and get a clearer idea of what other people think of these two projects.
-Peter
Oh yeah, there isn't enough closed applications out there already. We need more, lots more. I think you've changed me. Anything that promotes this damned "Free Software" idea is bunk! We need the freedom to not share with the community, to build upon all these years of source code without giving a damned thing back! This is the only true way now. Damn the QPL! Damn the GPL! Long live the new General Private License, "You have no right to do anything with this software. Do not touch it. Do not do nothing to it. If you are found to violate any terms of this license, you will be required to not release any source code. Good day, sir."
Click here.
moo fuckaz
Click here for your password. You are welcome.
MOO FUCKAZ
No doubt they will announce a distribution soon just like everyone else. We can expect no less from LNUX! Why buy Redhat when they could buy THE LNUX distribution. E is fun at times but is quirky at best. Ironically the best WM I've seen is Windowmaker.. unfortunately the next interface is a bit behind the times though. Simple and elegant yes.. but people want animated menus and whirly things and completely themeable interfaces. WM isn't that good at that stuff. About the best you can hope for is changing the colors of the wharf and menus and the background. No changing the shape of the dock.
Why make Americans speak your dialect, just 'cos you can't deal with people in the world talking *differently*...... ? Maybe US coders understand fall, and that's why the schedule is described that way.
But you should change that. That picture is of the receiver! The guy with the huge shlong is the pitcher! Dumbass.
Slashdot is really headed down hill. This thread is the worst I've ever seen it. Links to the filthy pictures, trolls, etc. Maybe it IS time to get rid of anonymous cowards. Sure, you may take away some of the real inciteful posters, but some things are better left unsaid if they can't be said without being anonymous. We wouldn't have this problem with the idiotic trolls. Make accounts need to mature before they can post after they are created... say.. you have to read 50+ comments before being allowed to post anything. Then, if the post gets moderated down, a freeze goes on posting from that account. It would then thaw after a certain length of time or number of read posts.. then if they did it again, like got a "troll" they would be deleted.
Try reading the supplied link. You might find the "Gnome Development Roadmap".
Eazel is a new GUI thats supposed to be easier for people to use. I guess you could call it the "Human Gnome Project"
And whats with calling these hacker attacks "DDoS attacks". Next time somthing like this happens give it a better name like "Overloaded Gates Attack" or "MSOverKill" or "Winstorm plague" or "Win2KOut". I mean really, if yer gonna use the bad press really use it.
My understanding of the issue is that the QPL( the license troll is using) allows use of QT for Open Source projects. I'm gonna look at it a little more closely. Only thing i'm not sure about is kdesuport, since it looks like it was just the distribution of other libraries.
treke
The developers of Eazel claim their product will be "revolutionary". Currently it looks like Midnight Commander++ - certainly nothing to get worked up over.
Expect to see Aqua ripoffs on linux by 2003.
Gee, maybe because anyone is free to make .deb packages? It would be rather facist to prevent anyone from making debs of KDE. Hell, for a while (dunno about now), there were /debian dirs in the KDE CVS. Debian simply chooses to do without KDE. Why that should stop third parties is far beyond my logic.
lol.
I (original poster) was a part of those flamewars. And in the end, I agreed with most of the people there. The zealots could kiss my ass, but the people who spoke legalese knew their facts. And honestly.. KDE itself isn't illegal. After all, they are the copyright holders to their own software. But if they seriously tried to start implementing other people's GPL'ed code, there'd be hell to pay. I mean, you'd think that GPL == GPL.. But in Legalese, when one is linked to the QPL.. shit happens..
And when Debian defines their spec for licenses requiring that it be free for both personal and commercial use.. that sorta screws KDE over (provisions in the QPL)..
Hmm, I wonder if this will get moderated down.
Moderate this down to (Score:-1,Troll)
Trollz rool.
I love rotten.com. I love that picture. I love pussy. And that sure is a nice one. It would be an even better picture with my jizm drooling out of it. Another slut knocked up!
Well, there is this bit about wrapping 'skins' around things. Like lampshades, maybe?
Next comes widget themes for Gtk+. Keep in mind that themes that have pixmaps for every widget take up a LOT of memory. The flat-colored themes are the least expensive, but least visually apealing. Try looking at the various theme entries on themes.org and note the sizes. Pick a list of your favorite themes and use the one with the smallest size (the size of the theme is not a perfect guage, but it's a good start).
If GNOME still seems slow try these tips:
- Don't use transparent windows, and if you must, don't use shaded transparency
- Exit netscape if you're not using it. It's a pig.
- Don't run GNOME and KDE apps at the same time. They both have huge libraries.
- Grab the source for glib, gtk+ and gnome-libs and re-compile with "-O2 -finline-functions -mxyz" where xyz is your platform (e.g. "pentiumpro"). The GNOME coding standards require lots of little functions, so the "-finline-functions" parameter will really help.
Hope this helps!This article is, quite simply, BORING. It is wholly and completely uninteresting. I normally post thoughtful comments but today has been really slow and I was bored so I posted some annoying things (I'm the one who runs things through a w4r3zi-ifier and posts them here). Sometimes you just have to go with it. On an article that is relevant or interesting, the signal/noise ratio will be much better. But "Gnome Development Roadmap?" Please. That is so boring. If we removed all the off-topic, troll, and "GNOME SUX" and "KDE SUX" posts, there would only be 4 or 5 messages in here. So we're actually doing everyone a service -- we make slashdot look busy by posting 243 useless messages, bringing the total to 248. Plus every page we view has the ad banner at top, so Rob, Andover, and VA are all happy because they're getting more eyeballs.
I personally don't remember "meept," but some of the trolls here are amusing. The "GNOME SUCKS GNOME SUCKS" * 1000 guy is just plain annoying, but then again, so am I. Originality is somewhat key here. Anyway, enough babbling. I'll post a reply to this message that's much more interesting.
ftp://ftp.asstr.org/pub/Collections/Old_J oe%27s_Collection/Impregnation/Brotherhood%20Files %20%233%20-%20The%20Ruined%20Fiancee.txt
d c-2.sprintlink.net!news-east.sprintlink. net!news-dc-26.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink .net!news.sprintlink.net!Sprint!netnews. com!news2.euro.net!xs4all!basement.replay.com!not- for-mail
... twelve forty-five ... one am. Show
... dat's gooooood ... yeah ... too bad yo man heah kain' perteck' his ... left you all to Portius, he sho' did ... yeah baby ... oh, I knows ...", I gasped while I fucked her. She
... I knows you's lovin'
... I pulled the gag from her mouth, cupped her face in my hands,
- --------------------
s %20%233%20-%20The%20Ruined%20Fiancee.txt
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THE BROTHERHOOD FILES #3
The Ruined Fiancee
by
Ars Erotica
I am the Narrator. In the first installment, I explained the existence of
The Brotherhood. To briefly recap, we are an underground organization of
black men. We select white women fortunate enough to bear our black
children, then impregnate them. Sometimes the impregnation is consensual,
sometimes it is forced. Our blackest men are responsible for this awesome
duty, these men are called the inseminators. Our black children are then
raised in a white world, with white advantages. When they are grown, they
usually leave the white world and come back to the black community, marry
black, and give us advantaged black children. In this way, we have improved
the lots of many blacks. Eventually, we plan to become the ruling class in
this manner.
Today's case is that of the ruined fiancee. Melissa McNair came to the
attention of The Brotherhood in the spring of 1976. Melissa was a twenty
two year old woman from a wealthy Main Line family in Philadelphia, and in
fact her financial report indicated that she was independently wealthy
thanks to a large trust. Her background report indicated that Melissa was a
remarkably unspoiled young woman, despite her wealth, who adored children.
In fact, she was working as a Day Care instructor, though she need not work
at all. Melissa was engaged to be married to a man called Thomas Jewett,
and the marriage was set for July 30, 1980. Our investigation revealed that
both Melissa and Thomas were extremely religious (Methodist). Melissa's
gynecological files stated that she was still a virgin. It was decided that
Melissa was a prime candidate to become the mother of a black child, and she
was scheduled for immediate insemination.
It was determined that Melissa should be impregnated by rape. Her character
was such that she could not be seduced by a man she wasn't married to. It
was also decided that Melissa's fiance, Thomas, should be present at
Melissa's rape, and made to feel responsible for it so that he would marry
her even though she was pregnant by a black man. We prefer that our black
children be raised in stable, two-parent homes wherever possible. We were
fairly certain that Thomas was wimpy enough to accept another man's child as
his own, though Melissa could easily support a child in a wealthy manner on
her own. Amos Creed, aged forty-two, was selected to inseminate Melissa
McNair, as he is one of our best rapists. Here is his report on case file
#40012887 - the ruined fiancee.
CASEFILE #40012887
Mother: Melissa Rose McNair (Married name, Jewett)
Inseminator: Amos Creed
Report Dates: May, 1976 - July, 1997
In my everyday life I look like what I am - a successful black owner of a
booming Realty business. As an inseminator for The Brotherhood I am a black
rapist. The Brotherhood made most of the usual arrangements. Melissa and
her fiance, Thomas Jewett were in the habit of living their religion and
volunteering at The Olive Branch, a homeless shelter in the worst area of
Philadelphia. They usually worked in the 'safe' times, meaning during the
day on weekends. That changed on the last week of May, 1976, the week
selected for Melissa's impregnation by me.
Through the machinations of The Brotherhood, the usual Friday night
volunteers all suddenly became ill. Melissa and Thomas were asked to stay
at the shelter overnight and watch the clients. The Olive Branch was a
temporary shelter for the homeless , and was divided into male and female
dormitories. Melissa and Thomas agreed, and at eight pm, May 27, 1976 I was
checked into the shelter by Thomas under the name of Portius Winfrey.
My wife Theresa picked that name, it was her great-grandfather's. She sure
enjoyed my inseminator duties. It was she who picked out the ragged clothes
I wore and she who mussed me up so I'd look homeless. She even thought to
tell me to wreck my usually well-manicured nails, breaking some and getting
dirt under them so I'd look convincing. I'd taken the week before I planed
to rape Melissa off, stayed home, didn't shower or shave so I looked and
smelled pretty rough.
Thomas was a pleasant looking guy, but kind of skinny and wimpy. He'd be no
challenge at all. Melissa was a fine looking white woman. She had long,
chestnut colored hair and pretty blue eyes. Her skin was on the fair side,
with a few freckles. She was petite, and had (from what I could tell) a
boyish build. I didn't much care what she looked like. I specialize in
rapes, and usually when you're raping a white woman you don't have a lot of
time to waste in admiring her body. It helps if they're pretty, but you
don't always have a choice. Hell, once I was assigned to rape a woman who
had to weigh at least 250 lbs and I managed to put a black baby in her fat,
white, extremely wealthy belly. Funny how that one turned out, my son by
her grew up handsome and skinny. But I digress.
Back to my story. After being checked in, I was sent straight to the male
dormitory. Once their, I checked in with my backup team - fellow Brothers
who were going to help me by making sure I wasn't disturbed by any shelter
denizens while raping Melissa. We went over the plan, and then settled in
till the target hour of one am. The shelter, as I've already said,
consisted of two dormitories, one for me, one for women. These were located
next to each other, separated by a thin wall. The 'guard' sat at a desk in
the front of the room, next to the lavoratory. There was a small store room
in the back, each dormitory had a door that led to it.
The hours crawled by. I amused myself by watching the future stepfather of
my baby preach the Bible to us. I also got a few glances at the future
mother of my child when she'd come in to ask Thomas about something. I also
overheard them yammering about their upcoming wedding. I must admit, I
chuckled to myself as I imagined it - the best of Philadelphia society there
watching the happy couple wed while the bride carried my black baby in her
belly.
Lights out was at eleven. Soon enough the place was quiet except for the
occasional snore. Twelve thirty
time. I got up, as if to go to the bathroom. I took a quick glance. My
backup team was ready. I walked over to the desk where Thomas sat. I
almost felt sorry for the poor bastard. He was on the skinny side, had
receding light brown hair (shit, at the age of 26), glasses and a nervous
manner. "Can I help you Amos?", he whispered. I grinned and flashed the
knife we'd smuggled in at him. In my best sterotypical black voice I
responded, "Yeah - you can git yo white ass up an' foller me".
Smart man, he did as I asked. I forced him into the store room at knife
point, sat his ass on the floor, bound and gagged him, then screwed in a
twenty-watt bulb in the light socket. A little light was necessary so that
Tommy boy could easily watch his girl being raped. Time to lure Melissa in.
I walked over to the door that led to the woman's dorm, opened it quickly,
then shut it. As I expected, this caught Melissa's attention. I heard her
tentative footsteps as she walked to the door. I watched the as the knob
hesitantly, slowly turned. I saw her cute little face peer around the door,
as I hid in she shadows. I saw her horrified expression as she recognized
Thomas, tied up on the floor. Then I made my move.
I grabbed her and quickly dragged her in. Clapping one hand over her mouth
to keep her from screaming, I forced her to the floor. I shoved the rag I'd
brought with me into her mouth, then quickly tied her arms to the metal
shelves that lined the walls. She tried to struggle, but to no avail, I was
much bigger than she was. I loomed over her, every white woman's worst
fear, a big, black man with a lustful look in his eyes. I must say I looked
the part - greasy, dirty, smelly. I straddled her, took hold of the front
of her dress, and tore it down the middle.
Her eyes grew wide with fear as I grunted and drooled over her. I enjoy my
rapes, I've always fancied myself as a bit of an actor, and I liked to throw
myself into the character of a rapist. I've found that the more I showed
the woman that I was into raping her, the more likely it was that she'd feel
it was her fault and treat the baby I fathered on her well. I grinned at
her, and then at Thomas, who had figured out that his precious Melissa was
going to be taken by a black man. Damn, he looked horrified as I tore
Melissa's cotton bra off and pawed at her tits. They were pretty small,
maybe a B cup, with light pink nipples. Nipple hardening is an automatic
response to stimulus, but these two sheltered virgins didn't know that and
in the dim light I saw Melissa blush with shame as her nipple hardened under
my fingers.
No time to undress, so I unzipped my dirty old chinos, and let my rock hard
cock spring out at her. Man, I love that moment, the moment when a white
woman sees a huge, ravaging black dick for the first time. The look in her
eyes as she realizes that she's about to be raped in priceless. My cock is
average for a black man, about ten inches in lenth, though mine's slightly
less thick than the average - maybe an inch and a half. No matter, my pal
and I had managed to father plenty of healthy kids together. Now, in the
rape situation you usually want to get it in as soon as possible and get the
job done, but I sensed that Melissa and Thomas needed a little something
extra. Nothing too fancy, but just something to drive home the horror. I
waved my knife in Thomas' direction, and said to Melissa, "You gonna suck my
dick, bitch. Iffen you screams I's gonna kill yo man heah, unnerstan?"
Thomas shook his head violently. Obviously he'd rather die than see his
precious girl suck black cock. Melisaa was obviously the brains of this
outfit, because she squeezed her eyes shut, and with two tears trickling
down her face nodded yes.
I pulled the rag from her mouth, and immediately brought my cockhead to her
lips. "Suck it, ho'", I told her, and she complied. No technique at all,
of course, she sucked me like a lollipop, but it's always exciting to feel a
woman suck you when you know it's the first time she's ever done that. I
groaned, thrust my hips a few times into her face. "Oh yeah, bitch, dat
sho' feel good", I muttered a few times. After about three minutes of this,
I knew it was time for the main attraction. I abruptly pulled my dick out
of her mouth and whipped her gag back in. "Not good enuff fo' me, I's
'fraid", I whispered to her as I reached down and tore her panties off. Now
THAT got a reaction - I think she thought that maybe I'd settle for her
sucking me off, leaving her a virgin.
She tried to fight me, and I heard Thomas try to shout "No!" through his gag
as I lay down on top of his fiancee. I jimmied her legs apart with one
knee, and got in between her soft, white thighs. "Nggggg! Nggggg!", she
grunted though her gag. I guess that meant 'no'. Ignoring her, I centered
myself, and with a long satisfying thrust, I claimed my latest victim. She
was bone dry and tight as a noose. The blood from her torn maidenhead soon
lubricated her, and I commenced my thrusting. I moaned, kissing her face,
pawing at her breasts as I raped her. "Oh yeah
baby, Portius' be fuckin' you
woman
you wanted ole Portius inside you
was crying through all this, as was Thomas. Poor bastard. He closed his
eyes tightly, unable to watch as I fucked his girlfriend silly.
Then I pulled my standard trick. Most women have an automatic reaction to
having their necks kissed. When raping a white woman, it's important to
inject a small bit of pleasure in it for them. This way they blame
themselves, and are much more likely to consider it their duty to give birth
to and raise the child they conceive as a result of being raped. I softly
nuzzled Melissa's neck with my thick, black lips, sucking at the delicate
skin. This took her by surprise, and she instinctively thrust downward on
my cock when I did that. I damn near lost it right then. That probably
why I did the dumbest thing I've ever done while raping a woman, something
I've never done before or since. "Oh yeah baby
dis' from ole Amos Creed", I whispered in her ear. SHIT! I realized that
I'd actually told her my real name! Her pleasure-filled reaction was the
strongest I'd ever had, and it emboldened me to do something I'd never done
before - keep up the kissing of her neck and hope like hell she'd not heard
me whisper my real name to her. Well, I had an airtight alibi set up anyway.
I must say, this was one of the most satisfying rapes I'd ever performed. I
continued to caress Melissa's neck, and then sucked on her earlobe. Another
massive reaction from her. Best of all was the fact that Thomas couldn't
see the look of surprised pleasure on his fiancee's face. I was careful to
shield that with my head and arms. Plus the idiot had his eyes closed the
whole time anyway. No, it was a secret between Melissa and me. My gentle
nuzzling of her neck, the sucking and blowing in her ear had sparked her
pleasure, and enormously increased mine.
This was a first for me - the chance to bring a woman I was raping to
orgasm. Sure enough, my ministrations had started the inevitable. She was
responding, albeit unwillingly. Her cunt grew wet from my thrusts, her legs
would begin to circle my waist, then jerk back as she realized what she was
doing. She began to meet me, thrust for thrust, and she began grunting
involuntarily with pleasure. I'm sure Thomas thought her noises were caused
by pain. It was hard to stop, but I knew that I'd have to get this finished
soon, then make my escape. I reached between us and began to finger her
clit. That was all it took. I gazed down into her face, and watched as she
came. Her face with filled with self-loathing.
I draped myself over her and began to thrust hard and fast. I imagined what
would happen when she learned that she'd become pregnant by me. She'd have
my baby, of course. Thomas, good man that he was, would stand by her and
raise my baby as his own, because he loved her and thought it wasn't her
fault that she'd had a black man's baby. She would know better. Everyone
would sympathize with her - poor girl, raped by a black man and now forced
to have her rapist' baby. And only she and I would know that what started
as rape had ended in the first orgasm of her life. She would remember this
every time she looked at our child. And with that, I came deep inside her
and the collapsed on top of her, spent.
I lay there for a minute or so. I could hear Thomas sniffling. I kissed
Melissa softly on the neck, then gazed in her eyes. I can't even describe
the expression in them. Glazed with helpless pleasure, shamed, frightened,
wild
stared into her eyes, then kissed her deeply. To my amazement, she
responded to my kiss. "Remember me", I whispered, and placed the gag back
in her mouth. significantly, she never screamed even though she could have.
I got up, straightened my clothes, and left them there, tied up. I left
through the front door, secure in the knowledge that my fellow Brothers
would handle it. The idea was to leave Melissa and Thomas there for a few
hours, so they would have nothing to do but think about the rape. At the
same time, we didn't want anyone else finding them and raping Melissa too.
The Brothers would make sure this didn't happen.
The papers were full of it for the next week. They never mentioned Melissa
by name, of course, but the story of the brutal rape of a young
shelter-worker while her fiance was forced to watch made the national news.
I knew I was home free when my wife read an article to me, in which the
'unamed victim' was quoted as saying she hadn't been able to see what her
attacker looked like. I'd told my wife the whole story, and we both laughed
- Melissa had had plenty of chances to see me. I hadn't told Theresa this,
but I knew that I'd told Melissa my real name, and she hadn't said anything
about it to the police. It had to be that she felt so guilty about her
pleasure she was punishing herself.
Melissa and Thomas married on schedule, just a little over a month after I'd
raped her. I knew that wimp would marry her. I studied the wedding photo
in the paper, and I could tell from Melissa and Thomas' expression that
something was ruining their big day. Sure enough, in late August The
Brotherhood's source at Melissa's gynecologist confirmed that Melissa was
three months pregnant. The records also noted that Melissa's child had been
conceived as the result of a sexual assault she'd suffered in the early
morning-hours of May 27, 1976. Man, I was happy to hear that. Another
black baby for The Brotherhood.
It got even better. Right around Christmastime I saw Melissa at a local
mall, all alone. Her belly was hugely swollen, and she glowed as all
pregnant women do. She looked up and saw me, and by God, she knew who I was
even though I was clean and respectable. I watched as her expression
changed from anger, to fear, to shame. She glanced down at her hands,
wedding ring on the left, as they rested on her bulging belly. Then she
looked up at me helplessly. She was telling me that she was carrying my
baby, and mutely begging me not to make this worse for her by coming
forward, claiming our baby, and exposing her shame to the world. As long as
she was a rape victim she could deal with bearing my child. If the world
knew she'd squealed with pleasure as I raped her, she'd never be able to
live with that. I gave her a big grin, then walked away.
I kept tabs on her, drove by her house and so forth. By the greatest good
fortune my wife Theresa (who's an obstetrical nurse) was on duty the night
of February 27, 1977 when Melissa gave birth. Theresa called me at home and
informed me that I was the proud father of healthy twin sons! When I'd
seen her at Christmastime, I'd thought Melissa was pretty big for seven
months. Man, I was pumped! Two more beautiful black boys for The
Brotherhood. I saw my boys early the next morning. Theresa sneaked me in
there, and watched proudly as I held my sons. They were a bit on the small
side, the oldest was six pounds two ounces, the younger was six pounds even.
This worried me since my babies usually average around eight pounds, but my
dear wife explained that my sons were smaller because they were twins. My
boys were identical, and my wife thought they looked just like me. They
were pretty dark in color, definitely black though. Theresa said she
thought they'd get even darker as they got older, most mixed babies do, she
said.
And then I got the shock of my life. My wife told me what Melissa had named
our sons. John Amos Jewett and Joshua Creed Jewett. I couldn't believe it.
Melissa had given our sons my names. The woman had actually named our sons
after me, the man who'd raped her! Guess she felt guiltier than ever.
Thank God my wife thought it was a coincidence that my sons middle names
were my real name.
John Amos and Joshua Creed are now sixteen years old. Melissa and Thomas
remained married, and their story was featured on the 700 Club recently, as
an example of how abortion isn't the answer to rape. Man, that was a fun
show, watching Thomas explain how he loves his wife's black sons as his own,
and how he was felt that the Lord had given them these fine twin boys and
thank God they'd never considered abortion because as it turned out Thomas
was sterile and if Melissa hadn't bore her rapist's babies, they'd be
childless. My boys and Melissa were on the show too. Melissa didn't have
much to say, just that she was happy she'd been given two fine sons, and
that it didn't matter that their father was a rapist. My heart was warmed
when my handsome black sons stated that they had no animosity towards their
real father, and wouldn't mind meeting him someday.
I live in Philly still, and it's been a simple matter to check up on my
sons. My boys grew up to look very much like me, except they're even taller
- Melissa must have some tall men in her family. They did turn out to be
quite dark, just one or two shades lighter than me, and I'm shining black
myself. They're local basketball stars, and little do they know they've
already met their real father. Theresa gave me a son four months after my
sons by Melissa were born, and my boy Samuel is good friends with John Amos
and Joshua Creed. In fact, they go to the same private school, and my sons
have often visited my home. Samuel knows that his 'friends' are really his
half-brothers, but knows how important it is to The Brotherhood that this be
kept secret till the twins are eighteen. He's managed to keep John Amos and
Joshua Creed from having their mother and stepfather meet me a time or two.
Sam's a good boy - can't wait till he's old enough to become an inseminator
himself.
My sons are good kids, they're honor students at their private academy, and
by all accounts have an excellent life. I've noticed that they are starting
to pull away from their white lifestyle though. Sam's told me that my boys
are wanting to know their black roots, and that's why they're spending so
much time at our house and with their other black friends. I'm convinced
that in two years, when my boys turn eighteen, they'll be thrilled to learn
that I'm their real father, and will eventually leave the white world. I'm
sorry for Melissa, I know that she loves our boys. But, our sons are black,
and they belong in the black world. However, I'll always be grateful to
Melissa for giving me two fine back boys.
-----------------------------------------------
Addendum: June, 1997.
John Amos Jewett and Joshua Creed Jewett were contacted as planned on their
eighteenth birthday (February 27, 1994) and informed that they were
conceived through the offices of The Brotherhood. Like most of our
children, they took the news very well, and have developed a close
relationship with their true father. John and Joshua have just graduated
from Yale and Columbia Universities respectively, both Summa Cum Laude.
John earned a degree in International Banking, and Joshua has earned a
degree in Astrophysics. Both boys have come into their irrevocable trusts
set up by their maternal grandparents (their stepfather's parents refused to
acknowledge them as grandchildren), in the amount of $2 million each. They
have now broken all ties with their white families, and have become full
members of Mr. Creed's family.
Thomas Jewett has recently filed for divorce from Melissa Jewett.
Intelligence suggests that he is devestated that his stepsons refuse to
acknowledge him as their father. Melissa Jewett is devestated that her sons
will not see her, since they do not wish to be part of the white culture any
longer. She has not seen her sons since their twenty-first birthday in
February, when they came into their trusts. Both John and Joshua Creed have
joined The Brotherhood, and each has recently completed their first
inseminations. Their first targets were white, identical twins sisters who
attended John's college. The sisters each became pregnant in March of 1997,
and are due to give birth to John and Joshua's children in November of this
year.
ftp://ftp.asstr.org/pub/Collections/Old_J oe%27s_Collection/Impregnation/Brotherhood%20File
244th post! Or something like that.
Moderate this down to (Score:-1,Troll)
Trollz rool.
Looks like all the moderators are asleep right now. Or drunk.
Moderate this down to (Score:-1,Troll)
Trollz rool.
What is it like to have one's cock sucked by a male*? Is it different from a female*?
*not necessarily human
My guess is that KDE and GNOME both aspire to be more than just window managers. Gnome is not a windowmanager, and AFAIK KDE isn't either (never the less, KDE comes with a windowmanager kwm).
Yes - there are some problems with Gtk+. The problem is not that its "slow" - its just that it 'flickers' - There is a 'no_flicker" branch for Gtk+ in CVS which should make things appear to be much smoother and faster
Therefore, if someone wants to make a closed source project with a LGPL'ed toolkit, they are free(freedom = = no constraints) to do it but not with Qt ($$$ = = constraints).
I guess you don't use anything that's GPLd then either, because you'd have to give the source away?
Is this about a desktop environment or does this reak of "not invented here" both ways?
Both have their good sides.
IMO it isn't important which you run - there's no
problem with running GNOME applications inside KDE
and vice versa, so you can just pick the best of
both worlds.
With Qt 2.*, the licensing is no longer much of an
issue (and even with Qt 1, you could have a look at its source, just not re-use it or add your own
modifications).
My personal preference is KDE simply because GTK's API is (IMO) painful for programmers (I'm sure many of the GNOME developers will disagree with me here though) because of its attempt to simulate an
OO-style API in a language that simply wasn't
designed for this sort of stuff - causing, among other things, oddities like stupid bugs (such as an attempt to add a listbox item to a pushbutton) to compile without problems.
This message is provided under the terms outlined at http://www.bero.org/terms.html
So many people are bitching about the quality of Rasterman's code it isn't funny anymore.
In fact, many of those who are bitching never contribute even a single line of source code for the betterment of the open-source communities, and yet they bitch away.
The thing that they have chosen not to say is no matter how bad Rasterman's code are, at least Rasterman has done more than them - that Rasterman, through his no-so-quality-coded-Enlightenment, has demonstrated many NEW WAYS to do things !
And we must NOT forget the very one unique thing about open-source - that the source code is available, and if you feel that the source code needs updating, tidying, or "quality control", you can do just that.
I sincerely hope that those who are bitching about the "quality" of Rasterman's code will stop bitching and instead contributing their effort to "clean up" whatever "mess" they think.
That is all I want to say right now.
Muchas Gracias, Señor Edward Snowden !
Since many of you are talking about the "Office Suits" that run in Linux, I wonder why so few of you are mentioning the Siag Office http://siag.nu/ that just has its version 3.20 came out a few days ago?
Yes, it is not as powerful as M$ Office, and yes, it is not "G-integrated", but that doesn't mean it can NOT be integrated into Gnome.
Somebody just has to roll up their sleave and do the integration, but so far, none is doing that.
Why are there so many people who complain about the non-availability of this and that, and none wants to do something about that?
If all of us keep on doing the complaining part, and none do the coding, how do we expect the open-source movement to be continued?
Muchas Gracias, Señor Edward Snowden !
My flame was good but this is better. Congrats!!
"(1) has become moot with the free license now, but many people haven't gotten the message and will just hate Qt/Troll Tech forever."
Lets say you wanted to do a Qt version of Mozilla. Then the MPL tells you that you have to allow Netscape to take any code that you write, and not to let anybody else do so. The QPL tells you that you cannot let Netscape take the code. So combining two 'free' software projects is a failure.
That is the problem with these leaching licences. It creates little islands of software, which, although you can make them bigger, you cannot join together. Thus you end up reimplementing everything.
Unfortunately all the people who admire Mozilla, Qt, et al so want their project to be 'right', that they sweep this inconvinient fact under the carpet.
CloudWarrior . "I may be in the gutter but I'm looking to the stars"
Ok,
:)
I'm using Gnome from the beginning ( cvs version 0.99.x ),
it is true, that when 1.0.0 was launched, there was stability issue... however, today Gnome is fast and stable...
If you don't believe it, just try the unstable gnome version ( which are extremly stable )...
What i think is KDE look like windows,
also, and it is probably related to QT :
it is extremly slow, and it look really ugly.
And gnome use a newer architecture which made it
far more evolutive than KDE.
Now just a hint,
i've noticed that when gnome is used with
enlightenment as a window manager, the memory
that the X server use keep growing ( i've reached
60% on a machine with 128 Mb of ram )...
It doesn't occur with wm like sawmill,
so if you want to experience a *fast* & light gnome, just have a try to the latest gnome tarball, with an other wm that enlightenment
Maybe I fundamentally misunderstand the situation, but couldn't the effort that created Gnome have created a GPL work-alike to QT?
The Gnome-team offered to do just this, but the KDE team refused to give any guarantees that they would use the new gpl Qt-workalike product. Therefore, the Gnome-project was started.
Damn, I am bored.....
Yes, I might. Let me look at it again. They say Gnome 2.0 will be based on GTK+ 1.4. Fine. They also say Gnome 2.0 will release 'around fall 2000'. Ok. So you *could* infer that GTK+ 1.4 will be released around fall 2000
:)
However, the Gnome folks don't speak for the GTK+ folks, and the GTK+ 1.4 release could be scheduled for any time prior to or after the Gnome 2.0 release, which is already pointed at a rather vague target. I'd like to hear from someone who knows something about GTK+ developement when I can start using the new version
Daniel
Hurry up and jump on the individualist bandwagon!
The last time I used Sawmill's default configuration, it sucked. With such a configuration, it seems slows and clunky. You speed problem mostly like is because Sawmill delays the raising of a focused window for a little bit, which gives the appearance of being slow. Anyone using Sawmill without configuring it will most likely see it as slow. Just spend five minutes configuring the thing and see what you think then.
Actually, there was a thread on debian-devel the other day that indicated that the memory (actually, X pixmap) leaking may not, in fact, be fixed. People were reporting that their X server was using over a hundred megabytes of memory if left running overnight; the only commonality was that they were running Gnome and using various imlib-based things (pixmap themes, transparent Eterms, etc)
This is actually worse than your average memory leak, as the only way to recover the memory is to restart X.
Daniel
Hurry up and jump on the individualist bandwagon!
If I could I'd clean up every piece of messy code I could get my hands on. Heck, I'd rewrite the entire system from scratch.
:)
:) ) -- the logical extension of its current development path -- or collapse under its own weight. Or possibly both.
The fact is, though, that I do not have an infinite amount of time in which to work, and that therefore, I rely on other people to fix things I don't have time to get to. Does this make sense? I'm not sure it makes sense to me
In any event, E is way too broken on a fundamental level to be fixed. I switched to Sawmill and never looked back; I predict that E will either eventually become an entire operating system (possibly even incorporating a kernel
Daniel
Hurry up and jump on the individualist bandwagon!
Well, being honest, I have never written anything in in qt or gtk but I have read threads about the issue and understand your point. Your complaint is that people that program with gtk usually use C, which is not object-oriented. QT is written C++ and therefore a lot of programmers that use QT use C++.
However, just because a tool-kit is written in one language does not mean it can be used in others. Both QT and GTK have language bindings that allow for other languages to be used. I you wanted to, you could write a program that makes use of QT completely in plain old C.
Your complaint about the tool-kits are really a C vs C++ issue.
As for your suggestion that people can pick the best applications of both desktop environments and use them in one meshed environment is not really that wise to suggest. First of all, both GTK and QT are large libraries and using both would be redundant. Being redundant almost aways results in more resources being used than neccessary. Second of all, GNOME and KDE try only to use one tool-kit because they are aiming for a default look and feel which would be completely hosed if you mixed gtk and qt apps.
As GNOME and KDE evolve, it will become more evident that mixing KDE and GNOME apps are a bad idea. GNOME is headed towards a environment where the apps are all tightly intergrated together through GNOME using CORBA. An example would be that GNOME mail client will not store addresses but rely on the GNOME address book client. I do not know as much about KDE, but I know that they have scrapped their CORBA design. KDE and GNOME are just not mature enough for people to realize that the mixing of the apps are very bad.
How apt. ProcesSORE about sums up the pathetic state of AbiWord.
As for winning at Linuxworld - you were the only entry in the catagory! Guess we should be grateful that you didnt lose.
And when Debian defines their spec for licenses requiring that it be free for both personal and commercial use.. that sorta screws KDE over (provisions in the QPL
Why is requiring a commercial QT license worse than the provisions in the GPL which make it illegal to use GPL software in commercial products under ANY circumstance? You would be having a fit if somebody was putting GNOME code into a commecial product. QT realizes that despite the zealots, commercial software isn't going to go away any time soon, so they might as well make money from businesses using their code.
You have to expect a little zealotry from Debian, the call it "GNU/Linux", which seems like needless RMS ass-kissing to the non-zealot linux user community. (GNU/Debian GNU/Linux 8.2 GNU/CD 4, the entire GNU/source-tree of GNU/Emacs)
Seriously, the fact that KDE is less buggy, compiles on the first try every time, and adheres to most of the existing X standards that GTK ignores more than makes up for the crufty QT license. Speaking of which, I have read the QPL, and it seems fine to me. The continued availability of QT is assured, despite the FUD thrown out by the GNOME crowd. If TrollTech folds or is bought out, QT reverts to the BSD license.
0 1 - just my two bits
> My personal preference is KDE simply because GTK's API is (IMO) painful for programmers
Try Gtk--, the C++ binding to gtk+. Looks very Qt-ish, except it uses template functions for signal/slot connections instead of a gross macro hack to the language.
I use plain ol twm myself, there's something zen about having a completely blank desktop when you're not using anything.
I've finally had it: until slashdot gets article moderation, I am not coming back.
Point 1: Karma.. Turn off your +1 for flamewars :-)
Point 2: The GPL doesn't prevent commercial software. It protects against closed source software by retaining it's slightly reduced freedoms. No license wars here please. We all know the BSD license is more 'free' but the GPL maintains the 'free' that it is.
Point 3: RMS is a jackass 9/10 times. But I have no issue with calling a Linux distro GNU/Linux. GNU are 3 good letters that I consider to be synonymous with quality.
And the 'KDE is less buggy' argument went out the door to a large extent with the release of October Gnome.. And the QPL isn't the problem, the use of an unmodified GPL on KDE is the problem. Go look at licq.. It's GPL'ed, with provisions to make up for the QPL.
Lastly, please don't babble about FUD, it just shows that all you're after is sensationalism. Those are 3 letters I think are synonymous with Karma Whores and Zealots.
Who cares about what they are doing? I use Gnome now and I love it but KDE will win. With KOffice, Konqueror, KDevelope, and QT being about 10x easier to program than GTK I'm sorry to say but Gnome will lose this one, but yet again, who am I to say anything.
-- "I'd rather be dead than cool" -Kurt Cobain
So far I have to say that I like GNOME better than KDE, despite some of its shortcomings. The default E theme that RH uses is very clean, and I like the look of the GTK+ widgets. I'm not sure that there will be a clear winner here; both KDE and GNOME are miles ahead of the Windows UI. I'm looking forward to GNOME 1.2 and the stuff eazel is working on, but KDE 2.0 looks like its going to be great too.
BTW, this is the first time I've been out here in about six months, and I was dismayed to discover what a cesspool /. has become. :-(
Point 1: sorry, I thought it was off
Point 2: Yes, it does. You can't take GPL source and put it into a commercial binary. See the John Camack vs QuakeLives article from yesterday. You can put QT into a comercial app, close the source, and charge money for it, provided you pay TrollTech for the license.
Point 3: Yes, he is. I just think that insisting that GNU projects be called GNU/whatever is a little ridiculous.
I call FUD when I see it, and insinuating that TrollTech, or Debian, or RMS can yank the GPL rug out from under KDE is creating fear, uncertainty and doubt about the future availability of KDE. Karma whoring and zealotry aside, if the FUD shoe fits, wear it.
0 1 - just my two bits
I disagree.
Gnome's (Red Hat) actions of scrapping and re-writting all of Rasterman's work can be interpreted as:
- It is personal and the RH folks are holding a grudge because of Rasterman's vocal departure.
- Rasterman's code is a mess and unmaintainable.
The RH guys are too professional for me to believe that it is a grudge, so the unmaintainability arg gets my vote.About a year ago a major video card manufacturer tried to sumbit some driver source code to the XFree86 project. The XFree folk refused to include this code because it had been run through an obfuscator inorder to "protect the company's IP." After some pressure the video card manufacturer gave in and submited acceptable source code.
So my argument is that obfuscated source code is not the same thing as Open Source Code! It doesn't make a difference if the code is intentionally run through an obfuscator or if the obfuscation is caused by bad hygiene. The code is still obfuscated and hence unmaintainable. And isn't that what Open Source is all about? Maintainability I mean.
Ouch, now this isn't meant as an attack on Raster, he creates great works, but this is more of a question to the community. What exactly is Open Source? Is it more than just slapping a GPL license on some piece of cruft?
Now this "defumigation" thread creates yet another sticky situation for VA. Since VA is so pro-opensource and pro-community, what is the significance of one its Open Source rock stars creating and releasing GPL'd yet non-maintainable code? What message does this send to the business community?
You heard it here first.
AFAIK, that's not quite right. I am not a lawyer, but here is my impression on how the QPL works.
"Lets say you wanted to do a Qt version of Mozilla. Then the MPL tells you that you have to allow Netscape to take any code that you write,
and not to let anybody else do so."
No that's not correct at all. The MPL says you must give Netscape any code (for any use, properity or not) that you have created based on MPL source.
"The QPL tells you that you cannot let Netscape take the code."
Basically the QPL just says you must provide your code to anyone for free, if you want to use the qt free license. If Netscape decided to put your product to a non-free use (ie. not provide the source on demand), it must first purchase a license from Troll.
"So combining two 'free' software projects is a failure."
I wouldn't say so. Maybe I am just plain wrong, but a quick glance at both licenses, shows that some of those conflicts you refer to don't really exist.
even he says Qt is better ;-)
Duh
The MPL is GPL incompatible. You can't use it in existing software, only ones where the author gives explict permission to link.
I don't get my ass sucked nearly enough...
Well, I'm using Gnome October on a 166Mhz, and it isn't slow to me. Somethings which may make your Gnome slow are: pixmap themes - if your hardware can't take it, don't use them old version of gnome - honestly, I've seen gnome get faster and faster as it developed, as should all apps remember to thrive for. So, go get the newest gnome in your distro's packaging, and get Gnoming! Eduardo
Well I'm really glad that such a thing as AbiWord exists, if only its development cycle wouldn't seem so slow as it is now... I guess that's because of being multiplatform which might benefit all of us in the future, but right now I'm just in need of a midsized WP somewhere in between Notepad or Ted and WordPerfect that doesn't depend on too much other stuff. If you use Gnome then of course its best to stick to the GTK libs for the sake of your memory and also for the looks (the looks are important, after all who is able to stare at that Motif thingy all day long without becoming visually damaged). So here AW comes in, and I think it has great potential, but personally I'd need more functionality (page size...) rather sooner that later if I'm not to switch to the next Applix release (which they say will also have a GTK interface).
The current version of AW does have a few hiccups and is far from complete, but really all of the releases I've seen so far (that's about 5 or 6 of them) were quite stable and could be used for small things like letters etc. Also, AW _always_ builds right out of the box without a flaw (something which I really appreciate -- BTW that couldn't be said at all about Gnome 1.0.0, to put it mildly).
Keep up the good work, AbiSource, but hurry up a bit if you can.
-- oso
My understanding re: Korea is that Mao dragged Stalin into a confrontation with the West he would have preferred to avoid (not having a deliverable nuclear weapon yet) and he never trusted Mao's sanity after that. Mao cajoled him with the idea that it was going to be a cakewalk. Mao's People's Liberation Army took around 550,000 KIA in that cakewalk.
I am aware that the USSR and PRC actually have had territorial disputes that have extended into artillery duels in the late sixties and early seventies and caused the USSR to station a large number of divisions in the East near the disputed Singkiang province.
IOW: I am aware that the USSR and The PRC were not the unified, monolithic Comintern colossus that they seemed to the editors and audience of Reader's Digest. But that is effectively how the American administrations had to deal with them since that is the front they presented. The schism between Beijing and Moscow was not played up for Western consumption and our people did not appreciate how deep it was until around the time that Mao died.
I said that i am glad that US strategic planners resisted the spread of "Communism" or whatever people want to call it. And I am glad. I can't stomach or disavow all that they did; their methods for fighting "Communism" were frequently despicable. They subverted democratically elected governments, most notably in Chile; but even allies were not completely safe from 'interference' if their politicians were not sufficiently anti-communist. They befriended any number of gangster regimes in the process. In the case of Vietnam, I have for my whole life believed our involvement was wrong, at best a terrible error, maybe a criminal act, that led to a million+ of deaths.
Still the older I get, the more I realize that I would not want to be in the position of the people who set our policies with regard to Indo-China circa 1945-1968. Up til '54 it was something we just had to assent to and support in order to get the French to make nice with the Germans in European security arrangemnts. After '54, it seemed to us like a verbatim repeat of Korea, push the Americans! It is easy to see how mistaken that reading was. Now. At the time, their thinking was affected by recent events: the seige of West Berlin, The Rosenbergs, Klaus Fuchs and loss of nuclear secrets, the fall of China, the Korean War, the suppression of Hungary, Cuba, the closing of the Berlin Wall, the Cuban Missile Crisis, and the assassination of President Kennedy. Yeah there was a lot of very scary stuff going on and the "Commies" were behind most of it. Vietnam was "clearly" part of that trajectory. Even allowing the possibility that the whole Indo-china problem was not a plot hatched in Moscow, (I know it wasn't) they could hardly be complacent about it. It sure looked like a Commie plot, and certainly if you were an American policy planner, could you possibly doubt that the opposition in Moscow and Peking would make the most out of any opportunity arising from new satellite states in S.E. Asia?
I'd like to be able to say that I'd be able to see it differently than they did. The "right" thing is to say 'Of course i would not have done that, they misjudged everything and killed a million people for nothing' Now I am not so sure I am so smart that I would have arrived at the right decision. What's more: I would not necessarily want to take responsibility for second guessing them either. I cannot write they did the right thing--shit they killed a million people!
Right or wrong, I have to take responsibility for what my government did in S.E.Asia. And I'll take that, because I know what they believed they were fighting was in fact an order of magnitude worse. A million people is nothing for Lenin's descendents. Stalin thought Mao was nuts for risking atomic bombs from the Americans and getting half a million of his soldiers killed for a worthless piece of land Korea; but he had killed a far larger number of his own men directly for no reason at all, except the need to terrorize the survivors into complete submission.
Mao certainly didn't have to care that half a million of his people died carrying his banner over the frozen hills of Korea and back again. He was stronger for it. And again stronger when millions perished in the Cultural Revolution. Pol Pot distilled these lessons and wasted no time in implementing them: start the mass killings immediately. Every interaction should involve a show of devotion to the Party, make each person prove their loyalty as often as possible. First these dictators had their people build them pyramids, later they discovered it was to their advantage to build the pyramids from their people. And it was always healthy for their grip on power, even though it made the country weaker.
The Leninist strain of Marxism was something that simply had to be fought off actively. It was contagious, as it offered really bad people a way to get everything they always wanted --with the cooperation of people of good will. I cannot say that the necessity of resisting Leninism justified all means used...
However, wherever containment was successful came cooling off. Spreading the Revolution is exciting. Living it is maybe not so great. Containment forced the regimes to live up to their promises, and eventually the promises came due--unpaid in most cases.
The fact is that much of the code under the GPL is written by people who don't put things like readability, maintainability, commenting, or rigorous testing high on their priority lists.
So true.
VA has made quite the noise about SourceForge's 13,000 registered developers. As far as the business world is concerned this quantity over quality bias is going to be a total flop.
VA is attempting to harness a truely chaotic force here, it is not going to work. ESR's C&B be damned, let us assume for the moment that the Open Source developers of the world, will continue to work for free and are not put off that their creations are lining the coffers of multi billion dollar market capped companies. And that a company like VA can focus their chaotic development efforts. What do you get? A bunch of unmaintainable code! With all these "ifs" this is the best case scenario.
Don't get me wrong, I am a fan of open source. Open Source is good for some types of projects. But I see a big problem of VA's and RH's business models not scaling.
It is going to be very interesting to see who can make it work, what business model will be most successful in the Linux world. My guess is a hybrid open/closed model is going to win.
Linus, Alan Cox, that bloke who invented the WWW. etc. There are many more I can't be bothered typing in.
- -
A VERY large proportion of the code on your Linux CD came from various Europeans, Australians etc.
If it weren't for us you can wipe a few years of the development. Imagine trying to fight Win2K with what we had in the early 90's. We didn't even have a free kernel then! AFAIR
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"If I can shoot rabbits then I can shoot fascists" -