Slashdot Mirror
An Interactive Project With No Rules?
psydii writes: "Matt Deegan is running an interesting project to explore the nature of the concept of 'interactivity'. Is it really neccesary to have projects that are only limited by the users' minds, or is there a need to provide rules and routes that must be obeyed?" This is actually extremely nifty.
Ummm... A better answer might have been everything.blockstackers.org ;-)
Glückwünsche, haben Sie Slashdot ermordet, indem Sie zum korporativen Druck beugten und Subskriptionen einlei
So, I thought for a moment, almost choosing www.freekevin.com, I then chose the obvious www.microsoft.com and I recieved the following:
Microsoft OLE DB Provider for ODBC Drivers error '80004005'
[Microsoft][ODBC Microsoft Access Driver] The changes you requested to the table were not successful because they would create duplicate values in the index, primary key, or relationship.
Change the data in the field or fields that contain duplicate data, remove the index, or redefine the index to permit duplicate entries and try again.
/project/SubmitReq.asp, line 48
Wow, click on a link related to the DOJ and they take apart Microsoft in a FLASH!
Now thats what I call internet time!
(For those of you who don't know.... "j/k!!!")
Try to hack my 31337 firewall!
An interesting idea to say the least. The basic run-down: each visitor is presented with a website, seemingly at random. They are then asked to select another website that they feel is related to the one displayed. As the site states, visitors are free to be as obvious or obscure as they like. The next visitor to the website is presented with the website the first visitor chose, and so on. (Not sure how it keeps track of the thread; what if two people access the site before the first is done making his or her selection? Does the path fork? Then which path is presented to the next visitor?)
I'm really fascinated by what the end product will be. I imagine it will be something like the stories we used to write in English class: each student would type out a sentence on their computer, then get up and move to the computer to their right and type another sentence, and so forth around the room. When we were done, we would read "our" story to the class. Most of the time they ended up being one step above gibberish, but every now and then a really fascinating plot would develop.
I wish the site didn't limit visitors to a single site selection. I would be interested in the a long path of related sites a user would follow. But this will be cool anyway. Everyone should add to this project!
"I came here to kick ass and chew bubblegum. I'm all out of bubblegum." MSE USC APX AIA CSI CASp
Of course you mean Triumph the Insult Comic Dog. Pure genius. Rename your account.
I'm sorry to say, but of the eight resposes, 1 was on topic. I don't think I've ever seen that poor of a showing on /. And, when you come to think of it, it seems as if no one is following the unspoken /. rules.
Even if you want to send me mail. I obviously am not going to get it
Is it really neccesary to have projects that are only limited by the users minds
Fortunately nothing is limited by my mind
I can proudly say that I am mindless
134340: I am not a number. I am a free planet!
All names have been changed to protect the innocent..
AND FOR ME TO POOP ON!
This seems like a nifty idea and all, but doesn't seem well executed. It made no sense to me at all. Maybe it's not supposed to, or maybe I've become dumb.
As for the Eternal Question of interactivity vs. rules, I'll answer it the way I answer most questions: balance.
---
Dammit, my mom is not a Karma whore!
here I thought this was some wacky free-for-all posting site, or something strange like that. of course there are rules! you must submit only one kind of data - that which is a URL. This is hardly free form. I mean, I see what he's doing, and I think it's neat, but to claim that he has created something "without rules" is hardly true. he has just created a simple (albeit cool) engine for word/concept association. Certainly interesting, but hardly rule-less.
-Rob Ewaschuk
Especially since all the /.'ers are visiting it now and using the engine, all you have to do is hit reload to see a different random page. Hey, nothing good's on TV and I'm not quite ready to go to sleep. I wonder if this will always be a good soporific.
Droit devant soi on ne peut pas aller bien loin...
Droit devant soi on ne peut pas aller bien loin...
Straight ahead of him, nobody can go very far... -- Le P
I bet most of those articles are filler. Have you read any of them? Another article on Wired today was about the Bill Gates story. Hey, that's original!
Personally, I like these experimental/hackerish type articles even when they focus on social and not mechanical science...
I can get SDMI articles till my eyes bleed over at MP3.com.
Okay, my experience w/ the program was this: It gave me the link to a site for a band called Deep Elm, music for workers or some such thing, I gave it www.communism.org, but when I went there, I found it was communism.com how's that for irony? But anyhow, when I looked at the links list it had created, the link I had been presented with, and the one I submitted were nowhere close to each other on the list, so I wonder how he's going to analyze the history.
OoO
OoO
Please do not publish outside of
The basic run-down: each visitor is presented with a website, seemingly at random. They are then asked to select another website that they feel is related to the one displayed.
Well sort of, but actually it just says to submit a site that you think would LINK to the site displayed. And in the wacky world o' the internet, you know that you can find links from anything to almost anything.
Am I the only one who's ever played link games over the web? Trying to follow one site to a totally unrelated one only by clicking links on each of the intervening sites? Come on, it's fun? No, I'm not a loser... hey come back guys... guys?
-Mad Dreamer
I don't get this no rules interactive project thing.
It seems like all the project does is ask you to view a site then type in a URL simillar to it by your own standards. Kind of like a web version of a psychologist's word association game. Okay so it seems that there is no censorship (i.e. I can enter http://goatse.cx) but besides that what is so novel about this? If we use something as tenous as lack of censorship to define an interactive project with no rules why not just point at USENET, or slashdot browsed at -1, or any webpage with a form that allows the user to input text. Heck, my own online survey can be said to have no rules because I have a field for best and worst software experience where users can type anything they want.
I was shown a link to AreYouDumb.com I gave them thomas.loc.gov. It just seemed appropiate and was the first site I thought of.
I tried to give feedback but there was an error when i clicked on that link. I'll try them again tomorrow.
Hates people who have stupid little sigs
The concept is kind of cool, looks like it could use some work though. It was fun at first, but it lasted for all of about 3 seconds.
Fuck Ajit Pai
So, the page it gave me was www.hotsex.com. I guess this concept is just one more data point in the question: "What is the average time in between the introduction of an information sharing method and the first instance of it being used to share pornography?"
--
share and enjoy
to do somebody else's homework.
while this may be true...My name actually is the name of the "graphic short" (comic strip) that was the basis of The Terminator. (and it's Ranxxerox Burn!) I really have no idea why I am posting this, but oh well...
Even if you want to send me mail. I obviously am not going to get it
I too got the error. Mine from submitting google.com The error itself should be easy to fix - all he needs to do is change it to a non-unique index.
Microsoft OLE DB Provider for ODBC Drivers error '80004005' [Microsoft][ODBC Microsoft Access Driver] The changes you requested to the table were not successful because they would create duplicate values in the index, primary key, or relationship. Change the data in the field or fields that contain duplicate data, remove the index, or redefine the index to permit duplicate entries and try again. /project/SubmitReq.asp, line 48
No, Thursday's out. How about never - is never good for you?
There is a term used in psychology, it is called free association. A subject is given a word or a picture and he/she is supposed to say/draw anything that comes into his/her mind. This is the same type of exercise only instead of words/pictures you see Internet sites. What in fact is going to happen is that some associations that people will make only work out for those people and noone else because of their own experiences and not due to any actual correlation between the shown website and the site a person chooses to respond with. In psychology this exercise is supposed to show what is on the person's mind, to see their hidden wishes and trouble, this is what we will see here, someone hidden (or obvious) desires and someones hidden (or obvious) problems. So these people will create a profile on you, nerds, and then sell it to the feds because your government wants to know what you are thinking about.
You can't handle the truth.
Thanks for the comments I did read the stories on wired. I was making a point. The point being their are many better articles that need to be posted. Save this for one of the slashdot shorts.
Wired sucks but at least they don't publish this type of crap.
Oh BTW I logged in before I flamed. If you want to flame me LTFO(Log The Fuck On).
Last time I submitted a story a couple of weeks ago their was over 300 stories in the submission queue. That's about the normal. I'm sure that many of those are duplicates but I'm also sure that their are better articles then this one to put here.
Environmentalists are their own worst enemy. ~tricklenews.com
-Marc
Flame all you want, I'll post more
I interpreted that rule in this way too, but now I suspect they were intended differently. I think that rather than the semantic interpretation of a site that would "link" via an HTML anchor, the author probably had the broader concept of "to link to" in mind, as in the English verb. It's a bit ambiguous, but...
...Of course one could argue that the reader's interpretation of "link to" is an integral part of their next-URL choice, and thus of the interactivity (which is otherwise sparse IMHO), in which case the rules work just the way they're supposed to.
As for whether it should have no rules at all, what would be the point? It'd just be a random URL submission page, and there are more than enough of those, thanks.
-- Life is short. Forgive quickly. Kiss slowly. ~ Robert Doisneau
Question: does interaction require rules?
Answer:
No, rules are not required for interaction. However, if you want that interaction to be productive (i.e. have something meaningful occur), you are going to need to define some rules.
For example, web site navigation. Web page designers can count on the fact that any graphical browser is going to change the mouse cursor to a hand when pointed at a link. Without that, many sites would be un-navigable because they are image/javascript laden and the user doesn't know where to go (this is bad design to begin with, but that's not the point).
Also, consider games. Games without rules are simply not fun. Even fairly unrestrictive games such as pen-and-paper RPGs have a set of rules that must be followed. Would solitaire be the #1 game if players could choose any card from any pile? Would Quake be as fun if individual players could turn off things like lava or blast radius damage, or even collision detection?
If we define "interaction" to mean general human interaction, the need for rules becomes even clearer. Without rules for grammar, word meanings, pronounciation, etc, people would not be able to communicate. Even if every person spoke a unique language, the act of learning another person's language is learning the rules needed to communicate! In fact, by reading this post, you are following rules needed to recognize characters in the alphabet, group them into words, and determine the meaning of those words.
To borrow from a Tic-Tac commercial: Can you interact without rules? Certainly, but I wouldn't reccomend it.
Slashcrap...heheheh. I was wonderin the same thing.. then i looked at my watch... 3AM on a Saturday morning... makes sense. Just my two crap nuggets worth.
Griffis
Try my "create your own adventure" thread here. I've been advertising in my .sig for 4-5 days now and have gotten about 3 people in on it, but I would like to see more people involved. There are a few guidelines, but it being a roll-your-own sid there's not much in the way of enforcement. Just creating a loosely joined story from sid to sid and seeing where it goes. If you land on an empty, create one! If the current story gets out of hand, has too much bitrot or just doesn't suit you create another one.
.sig and URL, and discussion of the stories/whatever happens at sid=adventure.
I was going to wait for a quickies article to post this but it does seem ontopic, considering that it's a completely interactive project with not only no (real) rules, but no real goal other than amusement and entertainment of ones self and others.
Anyway, I'll not make a habit of spamming the boards with it, just thought it might intrigue those still awake. Try it sometime, it's rather small at the moment, and post up if you like it. The sid is in my
He keeps getting me to think about having sex with my mother, that's stuff I don't want _any_ government to find out about. Damn Freudians...
One of the funniest things about psychologists is when they go to confrences in the Alps. You'll never see so many Freudians slip.
When the pack animals stampede, it's time to soak the ground with blood to save the world. We fight, we die, we break our cursed bonds.
Chris 'coldacid' Charabaruk Meldstar Entertainment
if you have to be drunk to feel good enough to post, then i would advise you to see someone about your self esteem. im sure a psychiatrist can help you, mine did wonders for me.
hope i didnt offend you with this post.
When the pack animals stampede, it's time to soak the ground with blood to save the world. We fight, we die, we break our cursed bonds.
Chris 'coldacid' Charabaruk Meldstar Entertainment
Along those lines, people may find Nomic interesting, a game where the participants make up the rules as they go along. You can find information here and here.
Hey, am i the only one who got this when trying his project?? :
==================
Microsoft OLE DB Provider for ODBC Drivers error '80004005'
[Microsoft][ODBC Microsoft Access Driver] The changes you requested to the table were not successful because they would create duplicate values in the index, primary key, or relationship.
Change the data in the field or fields that contain duplicate data, remove the index, or redefine the index to permit duplicate entries and try again.
/project/SubmitReq.asp, line 48
===================
Hope this guy is ready for the slashdot effect on his project - not only massive number of additions, but the trolls etc. adding their favourite beastiality sites.
Actually, come to think of it, he'll probably be able to use the project as the basis for a phD thesis on the mind of the 'net geek...
Cheers,
SuperG
Warning, goatse.cx is a *REALLY* nasty link. Now that I know your interest is piqued, again, don't follow it unless you want to see some sick sick shit.
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While projects with no rules can be interesting at least in academic sense, they do not provide sufficient drive for the individual participating to find fulfillment in life. They simply do not offer you the feedback you need to do the "right" or the "wrong" thing, required for personal development.
Like I said in an earlier post, the mind is a powerful neural network - now imagine a Beowulf cluster of those. :)
Now imagine living as a part of a Beowulf cluster, and think again about quitting your day job.
I heartily recommend Mihaly's book to everyone, especially to programmers as the arcane art of bit-twiddling is obviously very suited for sustaining Flow. This is largely thanks to the relatively rigid set of rules involved in programming, and the constant sense of self-development.
An area to explore, though, are projects where the individual still has a strict set of rules but does not need to see the big picture to participate or to find enjoyment.
No, wait... we already have that, and it's called Life. :)
Jouni
--
Jouni Mannonen
3D Evangelist
Jouni Mannonen | Game Designer, Consultant
Well the project was just skipping along at a nice pace until the /. affect kicked in. Bloody hell. Thanks for all your emails, i'm sorry if the links were broken or there were problems with ASP, it all seems to be working now. The discussion so far about the nature of interactivity's been fun, part of the project is to see *if* people do follow the rule. Personally I thought people would be posting their own websites and there would be more porn, but generally people do follow the rule. I believe that users only like something if there is some direction. How many of you that have played have returned to see what the next person linked to? Matt. who has to hand this in nect Monday arrgghh!
So did I!
Microsoft OLE DB Provider for ODBC Drivers error '80004005'
[Microsoft][ODBC Microsoft Access Driver] The changes you requested to the table were not successful because they would create duplicate values in the index, primary key, or relationship. Change the data in the field or fields that contain duplicate data, remove the index, or redefine the index to permit duplicate entries and try again.
/project/SubmitReq.asp, line 48
-CausticPuppy "Of all the people I know, you're certainly one of them." -Somebody I don't know
Everyone wants to make the true interactive game. The agme where you'll be able to builda time machine, go back in time, kill Alexander the Great, hook up with Cleopatra. But wait, there's a problem, basically every game will degenerate into violence and sex.
Everytime I see an author's vision of his new agem he wants the user to be able to do anything in it. For the universe to be infinite. But this tops being a game very soon.
--dave
So... I go to his site, and he sends me to a random website that has nothing to do with anything I'm interested in. Don't they usually call websites like this "Altavista"?
This seems like a good project, although I am sure there have been other freeform interactive projects out there. I was thinking of one recently to follow up on my 'hyperflow' interactive dictionary. I thought maybe a graphic version of hyperflow. Anyhow I love seeing folks doing anything new with http.
Not that I want to toot my own horn but I set up hyperflow about 5 years ago as an interactive dictionary, with no censorship. At this point it has passed 10000 words. I entered maybe the first 50...Since it was my first CGI program I am somewhat proud of it despite its retro feel. Currently trying to make it WAP compatible.
Check it out...
Excuse the graphic problems. We just moved it from its original site and I haven't had time to repretty it.
As a note: We recieved about 100 hate letters yesterday from a Jesus freak who didn't like what some of the posters had sent. Since I don't censor anything that isn't blatantly illegal I have had to leave things that I find distasteful. If you also have some lack of tolerance then don't bother...
D*sniff* *sniff*
> I thought [...] there would be more porn
Aha! So you admit it! This whole excercise was just an attempt to find good pr0n sites!
--
It's a fine line between trolling and karma-whoring... and I think I just crossed it.
- Sean
It's a fine line between trolling and karma-whoring... and I think I just crossed it.
- Sean
Just because you do not see the rules doesn't mean there is no rules.
The project is not a project with no rule.
There _are_ at least TWO rules to the project - They don't come as "rules" but they are essentially rules nevertheless -
1. Concept.
URL: www.msdi.co.uk/project/theconcept.htm
[the concept]
as part of royal holloway's media arts
course, students were asked to create a
piece of interactive media. i decided
upon a project to explore the nature of
the concept of "interactivity". is it really
neccesary to have projects that are only
limited by the users minds, or is there a
need to provide rules and routes that
must be obeyed?
2. Challenge .
URL: www.msdi.co.uk/project/challenge.htm
[the challenge]
the challenge, for you the user, is to
enter the project, look a the website
that's presented to you, and then
suggets another site that you think has
a link to what you see.
ahem?
well, if for example you were presented
with http://www.mcdonalds.com you
might suggest
http://www.peta-online.org/, the site for
the people for the ethical treatment of
animals. you could be abstract or
obvious, it's up to you.
get it? good.
Muchas Gracias, Señor Edward Snowden !
but then how will we know how to cheat?
and the bigger question is will GameShark support it?