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Linux Mandrake 7.1 Reviewed
webword writes: "The Duke of URL has posted a pretty good review of Mandrake 7.1. There is a useful list of pros and cons, along with performance and usaability ratings. There are some helpful screenshots too."
BeOpen submitted a link to a 7.1 review on gnulinux.com,
Sensei^ one on linuxnewbie.org,
and Quick & Flupke serendipitously pointed out the new slash-like Mandrake Forum where users can (among other things) suggest features for upcoming Mandrake releases.
Anyway; why on earth does the article only cover the X interface ? Sure its nice to know that MD, before unknown to me, did contribute something and developed stuff like their own configuration tools. But there is way more to Linux then that, and those topics were left out the article IMHO:
Which directory structure does MD use? Still the 1 on 1 copy of RedHat or did they improve it?
Are those configuration tools 'exportable'. i.o.w.; is this something totally focused on MD itself or can users of other distro's take advantage of it as well? (if this isn't the case I would have to retract my earlier remark on contributing)
Are those configuration tools also available on the commandline? A lot of people seem to forget that you really do not need a cpu hog as X when you use Linux as a server.
Last but not least; any special improvements made to RPM ? For example; some script to automate kernel compiles ?
I know, perhaps I'm to much demanding but the article does make it very clear that some distro's completely seem to focus on end-users while there are but a few who also keep the "real" functionality of Linux in mind.
Also, I usually make a separate /boot partition of about 20 MB, but when I tried to format it using ReiserFS, I got an error. I gave up and just made separate /, /usr, /var, and /home partitions of appropriate sizes and everthing worked fine. I made all these partitions ReiserFS.
/boot with the -notail option.
From the ReiserFS FAQ:
Can reiserfs be used as a root partition?
Yes, but you must mount
I havent used reiserfs yet, so im not sure exactly how to help, but this may be what youre looking for.
All I want to know is.... do automake/autoconf's aclocal.m4 find mdks's qt2 yet?
If so, could somebody post a WORKING version of aclocal.m4 that works with mdk and _their_ qt2 rpm (not redhat's)?
Duke of URL says in his review of Mandrake 7.1:
Well, I've been using Mandrake for over a year, and I'm currently at release 7.0, and I can assure you that it's not really all that hard to install TrueType fonts by hand, without needing to use the DrakFont utility.
The proof is that a couple of nights ago, I installed all the TrueType fonts from a Bitstream 500 Font CD in a little over five minutes, from the command line.
Admittedly, if I want to be able to use these fonts in FrameMaker 5.5.6 (Beta) for Linux, I'll need to install the PostScript equivalents (on the same CD), but I don't think that's going to be a problem ;-).
Oh, and Applix can't use these TrueType fonts yet...
But they show up fine in xlsfonts, xfd, the FontChooser dialogs, er, most everywhere.
I made the same mistake at Sams...I bought Mandrake 6.0 from them, not realizing that it was a Macmillam distribution. They said that they gave support for installs, so when I couldn't get my SCSI card/CD-RW drive to work I gave them a call. Well, they didn't consider that to be an "installation" issue so they gave no help.
Idiots.
Not sure, but I think that I read that it is recommended that your '/boot' should be ext2 and not ReiserFS.
I started using mandrake 7.1 the day after it was released. My main reason for doing this was to use Xfree864.0.. it is integrated into mandrake 7.1 (as an install option).
I was building a 3 headed computer, you see.
Now.. my first impression, as always, with mandrake, is the level of integration of all the GUI components. THey do a rather good job of this, and also do a good job of making sure a great many tools are available.
Oh.. but rpmdrake won't allow me to add a remote ftp or http site.. it just exits, restarts, and nothing has changed if I try to add one... oh, and no errors anywhere, period.
Oh.. and I tried downloading staroffice from sun, and loading it up.. but the installer just sits there and then exits after a while.. I don't know about the rest of the world, but this is a *BIG* pain in the butt for me. Without staroffice, I lose touch with all those MS Office using coworkers.
Wine seems to have some kind of font problem.. though I'm not sure what it is...
And perhaps it's my own ignorance, but trying to compile upgraded versions of gnome stuff, nothing ever seems to be able to find the headers or libraries where it expects to. gnome.h is nowhere to be found.
And it has locked on occasion, though I won't attribute that to Mandrake until I spend some more quality time with it.
And why doesn't it understand the wheelie on my mouse using xfree864.0? It *said* on the site that it did, for almost all apps.. but it sure doesn't.
All in all.. I think they did a great job of integrating things.. but have gone a bit too far and actually broken some key elements.
Switch to cable. I have used Rogers cable for quite a while and I am rather pleased with it. I never used Bell DSL stuff because I heard from lots of people that:
1) The PPPoE is an ugly cludge. This POS protocol just doesn't work. The dialers are available for Windoze and MacOS, but both are extremely buggy, crash all the time and you just get disconnected once every blue moon. It's a pain in the ass to get it to work with Linux and Bell people don't support it (obviously -- hey, they can't even get it to work on windoze!).
2) Your IP address changes all the time, prventing you from running a mail/ftp/web server. I do that with cable though, because the IP address is essentially static.
3) You hear noise in the phone line when you make a call. The noise traps they install are far from perfect.
4) It's much slower than cable (I got the top speed of 310Kb/s on Rogers in Toronto).
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If you think big enough, you'll never have to do it.
I couldn't believe that the tetex-documentation in binary rpm was ommitted from Mandrake-7.0.
What an oversight! I mean, fuck koffice-0.0002. If I can't use LaTeX, and I'm sorry, but I need the documentation (and who doesn't for say, XY-pic), I can't really use the operating system.
Workarounds:
So, I hope tetex-doc is there in 7.1
Perhaps you need to read the 'how to make a bootdisk' document. There is nothing at all wrong.. and all linux boot disks are exactly 1440k.
1440k is how much a floppy holds.
Have they fixed up the bugs that made Mandrake 7 so maddening? Some of these I reported, to no avail. Here is some of what I encountered:
Odd that all these reviews just discuss the installation, not how the system actually RUNS.
:-)
Since upgrading from 7.0-2 to 7.1, I've had some interesting experiences. Canvas7 no longer loads. TopPage no longer loads. Windowmaker core-dumps upon exit about 70% of the time. And, I'm using about 25 more Megs of RAM doing the same tasks.
Maybe if I used KDE or Gnome I'd notice the "improvements" that Mdk 7.1 has, but I like my menus just the way they are, thanks. I also customize my menus in the other OS, so I'm pretty handy.
Oh, and ImWheel worked perfectly in 5.3, 6.1, and 7.0, but now requires that I drop to root and manually remove a pid lockfile if I ever load X as root for some config or maintenance task.
I'm sure these are all being worked, but why have 3 betas if you don't get the bugs out? The WM crash is particularly vexing, since WM ships with Mdk.
Illegitimi non carborundum
The first thing I noticed is the Bogomips values reported at boot time are doubled for both machines over previous distributions, including Mandrake 7.0, Caldera 2.2 and 2.3 and RedHat 6.0 and 6.1.
My Dell box at work is no longer the strong but silent type; the sound card worked on the first boot up. With previous distibutions and also on an older Dell Gxi, it was always an annoying exercise to get sound working. I never had any trouble with the sound on the Gateway.
My main reason for installing 7.1 was to try the ReiserFS. I've set up both systems with ReiserFS on all partitions. I decided to give the ReiserFS a good test and after umounting the filesystems on a separate and still ext2 disk, I just pulled the plug and rebooted. It was the fasted reboot after a power outage that I've ever seen. Reiser took 18 seconds to do its thing on a 17 MB IDE disk, and then the system came up just perfectly.
I really like the new, improved menu system. So far, this is the best distribution I've used, and my Linux experience goes back to kernel 0.99 on Slackware.
This has undoubtably been mentioned elsewhere, but if you want to get Xfree86 4.0, you have to do the expert install.
Also, I usually make a separate /boot partition of about 20 MB, but when I tried to format it using ReiserFS, I got an error. I gave up and just made separate /, /usr, /var, and /home partitions of appropriate sizes and everthing worked fine. I made all these partitions ReiserFS. Does anyone have any suggestions about what an optimal setup might be? Could some partitions better be left ext2?
A brute force and sometimes quicker way of doing an upgrade is just to install over the old system, saving the /home directory by not formatting it and carefully saving other files you tweaked elsewhere. I planned on saving the log files in /var/log by not formatting /var. Well, the installer wouldn't let me get away with not formatting /var. Next time, I'll save my logs elsewhere.
Things I like:
/dev/hdb was too corrupt. There's nothing wrong with it! I just got a new hard drive, which is /dev/hda. I installed Win2K Pro, Win2k Adv Svr and Mandrake 6.1 a few weeks ago. Mandrake 6.1 has no problems with either hard drive. It even added entries for various partitions on /dev/hdb in to /etc/fstab. I can probably install into a partition on /dev/hda, but I would rather I didn't have to use this tool...
/dev/hda, and it wanted to save things... rather worrisome: I'm not sure what it was trying to save. I guess I was concerned that it wanted to modify the partition table, but it didn't say. I don't want the partition table changed.
1) They show where you are in the process of installing, much like one of those wizards in Power Point. It also makes it very easy to jump to another part of the install.
2) It ships with Roaring Penguin PPPoE client. Yes, I'm one of those unfortunate Sympatico HSE people who are forced to use this dreadful protocol with their DSL. It would be nice to see one of these distros coming with a kernel rather than user based PPPoE client.
Problems I had:
1) Disk tool/partitoner - it told me
I didn't change anything on
2) It took ages to install (upgrade), and the time estimate/taken was way off. It predicted that it would take about 15 mins... 3 hours later it was still saying 7 mins to go. I had a look in one of the other consoles and it seemed to be doing a lot of opening of the RPM database followed by about 15 transactions for each set of packages.
3) Selecting the Roaring Penguin stuff in one part of the install didn't automatically select the other part that I needed. Maybe this would have been detected later in the install, but I didn't get there due to it being so slow, and the thunderstorm that spiked the power.
Brah, I don't know what you're doing wrong but it works fine on my BP6. Double check your settings. ;-)
The last paragraph should have read:
A brute force and sometimes quicker way of doing an upgrade is just to install over the old system, saving the /home directory by not formatting it and carefully saving other files you tweaked elsewhere. When I upgraded from Caldera 2.3 to Mandrake 7.0, I decided on this approach. I planned on saving the log files in /var/log by not formatting /var. Well, the 7.0 installer wouldn't let me get away with not formatting /var. Next time, I'll save my logs elsewhere.
Floppy disks store 1440k. Are you trying to put it in a filesystem? You'll need to write it raw, using "dd if=filename of=/dev/fd0" (hopefully that's right) or ra_write.exe (if you're under Windows/DOS).
When I got my CD-RW, not long ago, I did installations of various linux and BSD distributions on my laptop, just because I could.
:)
If you have never done a Mandrake install before, when you finally do you will wig out. Not only is it amazingly intelligent and simple, it *looks* really cool. I lent a copy of it to a friend at work, and the next day he came to my office positively freaking out about it.
They've done a nice job with 7.1 in general, particularly if you are into having things look ultra fancy (I'm not - I run blackbox on redhat and debian machines). I ran Mandrake for about a week until the debian folks fixed the pcmcia stuff that was, at the time, broken in potato. I was relatively impressed with Mandrake.
Install it. I think you'll have fun, even if it is *way* too easy
no actually all the *Drak* stuff is new. Also nobody mentions Lothar. You were right (about the RedHat rip off stuff) up until about Mandrake 6.1. But with the new 7.x it definitely is its own distribution.
This is the second review from Duke of URL linked here on Slashdot, and for the second time, I think that the reviewers have little knowledge of what they are writing about.
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You may like my a cappella music
OK, sorry...I'm just getting back at Racher...
"If voting could really change things, it would be illegal. " - Revolution Books, NY
Not really. Windows and MacOS have been doing that for years now.
I picked up a 10/100 card from SMC for about $15.00 (and it came with a cable and a bundled copy of turbolinux, heh) (man that card is sweet, it's about the size of a DIMM) but I couldn't get it working with my copy of Mandrake, mostly because I didn't know what module/irq/address to select in linuxconf. But then I ran Lothar and it set everything up for me automatically. Lothar is very cool.
That WMaker news is what I was looking for/ wondering about. Too bad - I've got a Thinkpad I'm about to add linux to (it came with w98, and is currently my only computer that *isn't* linux). I use Suse usually, but was curious to try mandrake.
:)
But I'm not going to switch desktops just to for an easier install. (FWIW, Suse's "old" install has worked fine for me so far, although it's long and complex in the way that the old slack installs were - you spend a short eternity picking packages and configurations; their new tool's still buggy. It's a wonderful distro once you're installed, though.
I wonder if anyone else saw these problems with windowmaker on mandrake?
I have pondered many times about those other two mentioned CDs, I checked all of the mirrors (even when the psu.edu mirror was up for the first day of the release only to disappear quickly) and cheapbytes doesn't have them for sale on CDR so I'm thinking it's not openly available for FTP.
My question reguarding them extends beyond where to get them - but what's on them? Anyone with a box set out there know what more you get if you use them?
If it's the meaning of life I might buy a boxed set, but with those "packages galore" sets from cheapbytes, there had better be something amazing on those other two disks....
Wheeeee
Well, first of all, it was posted by an Anonymous Coward.
Second of all, it explained somthing which is common knowledge, how to make an install bootdisk.
Thirdly, for anyone that this was news to, RTFM. In *every* install help file, this is mentioned. I personally don't know how anyone can get through their first Linux install (by themselves) without those install docs for precicly this reason.
I got the ISOs but I haven't put it on a machine yet where I run X, so I'm wrondering about the wheel mouse - when I did the server isntalls nothing seemed to jump out and bite me that I had to pick something different to enable wheel mice - do they just work after installed?
Wheeeee
Haven't tried 7.0 or 7.1 yet, but the latests release of WM runs fine on 6.5. Some of the locations it chooses for the files are a little odd, though. If this bugs you, just build it yourself.
Wow, and people think Debian users are bad due to their 'radical' opinions. I see no reason what so ever to test the distro. And the main reason I made a point that MD focused on X was your own story telling me so. This discussion is over as far as I'm concerned; when people start to threat with 'yelling' thats a signal for me that they don't seem to be able to advocate the system they are using. = No offence = but I do not wish to continue arguments on that basis since that will only lead to flamewars IMVHO.
No it does not. I booted of the cd and ran the mandrake installer. I don't think the red hat installer is even included? Or are you talking about the text mode installer. In that case, get a new video card.
A deep unwavering belief is a sure sign you're missing something...
That was pretty quick! When did this release first hit the FTP sites? I'm impressed someone could review it that quickly.
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Remember when "Truth, Justice, & the American Way" wasn't contradictory?
From the review:
Mandrake has once again innovated in every sense.
Apparently a nice and stable Linux distribution is innovation. Hmmm...maybe I agree with that.
After spending a few hours d/l the CD's and burning I attempted an install yesterday.
Starts up and dies when doing IDE detection. Cna't get anywhere just locks. Tehre doesn't seem to be a choice of a differnt kernel. This is on a Abit Bp6 SMP machine. Ultra DMA 66 could be the problem.
So I went to Suse, don't really like it so I think I will go back to Redhat and a beta kernal. Oh well. Maybe teh next version of Mandrake will work...
I have to admit, this is the first time since 1994 that I have been considering dumping Slackware very seriously... Does anyone know where we can get the other two disks the install script mentions? I have the first two from the ISO image - I will NOT buy a boxed set if it's the only way to get the other two disks - I'll just wait for Slack 7.1 "any day now".
Fawking Trolls!
"Going to war without France is like going deer hunting without your accordion." - Jed Babbin
I really like the option to let Mandrake decide how the partitioning should be done - including resizing your windows partition (something like fips?). I have problems deciding how much space to allocate all the time - and I've been using linux for years. Just the other day I tried installing (Redhat) linux on my g/f machine and didn't allocate enough space for /usr for the installation to work! I said "fuck it" and went with one big honking "/" partition. I know why I shouldn't do that - but I also know it'll work for now - and it's bad enough that I had to consider partitioning in the first place. Finally someone gets it: The hardest part about linux is installing it. (which has been getting better and better really fast recently with the advent of GUI installers)
:)
I also really like GRUB. I'll have to find a URL for that - say goodbye to lilo, and hello to GRUB - It's like the dosGUI version of lilo.
Anyways, cheers to the Mandrake people.
Joseph Elwell.
I just installed Mandrake 7.1. What impressed me the most was that it detected, installed, and configured my USB zip drive automatically! Now that was a first. --pcb
'Men never commit evil so fully and joyfully as when they do it for religious convictions.' B. Pascal
I just installed Mandrake 7.0 on a box at home, how the heck is a guy suposed to keep up?!?
anyhooo, it has a good installer, and is pretty easy to get running, even my engineer roomate got it going!
regards.
"If voting could really change things, it would be illegal. " - Revolution Books, NY
First of all, I'd like to state that the Mandrake distrib is *ok*. Thats about it. ;) Macmillam Software also distributes this release..., as an example, I bought 6.5 (via Best Buy) and it's actually 6.1 of Mandrake. I had a configuration issue regarding a CDRW drive, ok? So, via Mandrakes official site they do not support the Macmillan version, so I said to myself..., ok, fine, I'll send email to Macmillan. I *never* got a reply. (these people suck!) I figured out the problem myself. Just a question, but Mandrake...,
sell this version yourself. Macmillan sucks!
Poof!
Life was hell, then I discovered Linux...
I don't get it. This guy seems to have had little difficulty installing MD 7.1 from the boot cd/disks, however, when I install from the boot cd , I get the Red Hat looking install and not DrakX.
/usr. After partitioning using RH, I was able to install MD from the boot CD (still no DrakX BTW). Once booted and logged in as root, I couldn't find ANY of the special MD tools that this guy or MD mentions.
This sucks!
Not only have I NEVER seen DrakX, but it looks like the Red Hat looking installer assumes that you've already got your linux partitions set up.
This sucks!
I had to go back and use an older RH install disk in order to set up / and
Piece of dirt.
Does MD 7.1 require MS Windows to be installed on the system in order for DrakX to start?
If so, I would reconsider the install path so that non-MS users can install the product with the same ease. Let me recap: After several installs (5 I think) I never saw the DrakX install screens!
Dynoman7
Blame it on the black star.
Blame it on the falling sky.
Blarf.
Yup. New kernel is in cooker, and I hope we will finaly announce the upgrade today and make it available as "first official upgrade" for 7.1. Stupid timing :-(
I am running 7.0 on an Intel platform at work, about to download 7.1 for my new box. I am also getting the Sparc ISO (not UltraSparc - this is for my old Sparc 2). Does anyone want to know how it goes under Sparc hardware?
If only I could get that 450 they are not using in IT..
... and more convenient. /boot partition as well if you have a huge HD).
/, swap, /var, /tmp, and /home. If the machine runs a mail spool, then /var/mail gets a separate partition as well. That way the program binaries reside on one partition (/), user data on another (/home), temporary stuff on another (/tmp), and finally logs, spool, and other stuff on another (/var).
/usr on a separate partition. /usr contains program binaries, libs, and other stuff -- just like /bin, /sbin, and /lib. Why would you want to separate the two if they contain exactly the same kind of data? That does not make any sence.
/usr gets a separarate partition. To fsck a partition it must be either unmounted or mounted read-only. In the old days of Unix, once a partition was mounted read only, it could not be remounted read-write. I don't quite remember what the fsck scheme was. But anyway, this is not the case these days. If you look at the boot messages in Linux, you'll notice that the / partition first gets mounted read-only, then fsck checks all partitions (including /), once the check is successful, the / partition is remounted read-write.
I *always* make 2 partitions whenever I do a *workstation* install of Linux -- one for / and one for swap. The swap partition is 64 Mb (same as RAM), the / is 2 Gb. That gives you plenty of space and no hassles. And I insist that this is the best way to configure a workstation/desktop machine. It's *much* easier than having multiple partitions and gives you the most flexibility. (You may need to create a small
Now, when installing Linux on a *server*, I certainly split the HD into several partitions:
In either case, I see absolutely no point in putting
There is a historical reason why
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If you think big enough, you'll never have to do it.
I read in several places that /boot is the only exception that absolutely requires ext2. Now, I also heard some random noises that this may not be the case anymore. Either way, I could live with that.
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If you think big enough, you'll never have to do it.
All I can say is that this guy should not be allowed to comment on UI issues. The color scheme in that last page made my eyes bleed.
7.1 seems decent though. I'm building a linux box in a couple of weeks and I think it's what I'll install.
Wish the colored stars on the install screens had some extra visual cues to help out the color blind, but I believe most(?) color blind people can still detect orange, so that's not that big of a deal.
--Shoeboy
(former microserf)
Mandrake is easy as pi.
I was introduced to mandrake first. I have screwed up my computer but i can install it again easily.
The Drak* tools mke my life easier and newbies don't have to do a rpm -q to get the info for the package.
I am now an active member of linux community.
Has anyone installed Mandrake by using a boot disk image yet? All of the floppy disk images seem to be 1440k and all of the disks i have only store 1423k. It would be nice if this is fixed so that I can use the improved install program, it looks like they've made a lot of improvements here.
Mandrake distro is one of only two distrobutions the I would suggest to a newbie. The other one would be Corel Linux. As for Caldera, I just didn't like that one at all. The most entertaining thing about it was the little tetris game during the install, which sadly enough, is not copied to any other distros.
:)
But I still say that Mandrake is at the top of the pack with Corel for newbies. As for the more experianced and adventurous, may I sugest Slackware.
Come see my website.
http://come.to/streiff
Wow, what amazing new technology... Who would have thought you'd one day be able to remotely administer a Linux system? Or even (gasp!) a remote GUI!
Bold text does not automatically make a website usable. I found that the text was less readable because it mixed headline style formatting and normal text in the same sentence.
I tried to install mandrake 7.1 as well. The installation is pretty clean on my system, but I never got my memory to work. I have 196 MB (A 64MB block and a 128 MB block) With Wintendo it works fine, with Mandrake 7.0 its great. With mandrake 7.1 It only sees 64 MB and is slow. I guess im moving back to Mandrake 7.0 for the time being
and it rocks.
I have been using Mandrake since 5.1, and this is the best yet. They really got everything organized well in the default KDE setup, integrating all the apps together, instead of putting the gnome apps in the "red hat" menu.
It recognized my pcmcia cards out of the box. I can even switch from my Aironet wireless LAN card (at work) to my 3Com 10/100 LAN card (at home) without a re-boot or anything, just re-starting network.
The "K -> Configuration -> hardware -> laptop settings" (kcmlaptop) is way cool and very usefull.
Eterm is (finally) included in the default install.
AbiWord "preview" version is included, and it's pretty cool. I was just messing with it a bit last night (I mostly use xemacs for any type of text stuff) and it worked great.
IBM thinkpad 240, btw, and it was just as easy as a standard desktop install.
enjoy,
geekd
note to author: Bolding the first word of every paragraph sucks.
note to users: It's rootable right out of the box. Upgrade yon kernel ASAP.
:P
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blue
i browse at -1 because they're funnier than you are.