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Open-Source Netware-Aware OS Under Construction
jjr writes "An article over at Infoworld say that a former exec of Novell is creating a open source(GPL) netware compatible OS. you can play with it over at www.timpanogas.com" The operating system is named MANOS, so I keep expecting to see a lot of hands involved.
And for anyone who still don't get it, "manos" is spanish for hands
There are two kinds of people in the world: Those with good memory.
netware complatible OS
Not to be picky, but what exactly does complatible mean? Is this a new word, or a typo?
This is supposed to be great art. So why does it look like a bunch of decapitated naked people? -- Calvin
This is great to see. The peer-review miracle of open-source will be useful. It's a wonderous model that could've been used to catch the fact that there is no such word as "Consturction."
Sandidge
it's "Construction" not whatever it is you have in the title.
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1,2,3,4 Moderation has to Go!
Anyone out there automatically think of Manos: The Hands of Fate?
Chris the MathFeak
Also, the RSA patents don't hold overseas. There's no reason why this development couldn't take place in Europe. Well, it would have been a bit inconvenient for the folks in Utah, but they could have gotten everything rolling.
No! Mars is Netware 3.x (more-less) compatible. It doesn't support NDS and IMO is good solution only for a few DOS clients.
Oh wait, it's already been done I think. How else can you explain Windows? :oD
Mas vale cholo, que mal acompañado.
My honest reaction to this on both a personal and professional level of interest is "who cares"? The latest industry figures for companies from the Fortune 500 down is that NetWare is well on the way to becoming deader than the prospects for the Star Trek franchise. People just aren't interested in it any more, and compatibility is becoming less of an issue every day as companies upgrade their architecture.
Since I've started following the rise of the open source movement as championed by the people's hero, RMS (by the way, what does the M stand for? or is it just a "hack" so he gets a tech-friendly TLA name?), I've seen more and more companies start to move their enterprise solutions onto open source platforms - mainly Linux, but some more daring pioneers are opting for BSD. This switch in the way that these companies operate is slowly filtering up to larger and larger companies, traditionally friends with Solaris systems or even "big irons".
I haven't heard NetWare spoken about for a couple of years, except for the odd customer trying to get rid of it and install something else. It seems to me that this is just another open source "toy" operating system which will founder on a sea of indifference. Linux and BSD have already captured almost all of the mindshare amongst the open source crowd, and alternatives are just not going to find it easy to muscle in.
So, I don't think that this project will go anywhere. Like too many open source projects, it falls into the category of "wishware" - it'll never get past version 0.001-pre6 alpha 3 or whatever.
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Jon E. Erikson
Jon Erikson, IT guru
Why make all the trouble in creating a brand new OS , when they can create a distro of their own from any Open source OS they like and plug in GOOD Netware support in that! Isn't it really a waste of resources? (IMHO it is)
-Oh Granny your eyes are BIG and RED!
-it's from rebooting WinNT servers all night, said the wolf
(Caution: extremely flammable. treat with care)
But WHY ?
I agree. After a first-order analysis, it seems that building a new OS, GPLed or not, that is netware-compatible is a horrible waste of time, and that just building the user-land and kernel-space components for some *NIX, possibly Linux or *BSD, to accomplish this would be a better use of their time, especially considering the time-to-market issues.
HOWEVER, if everybody thought like this, then we wouldn't have Linux or any of the *BSD's. Perhaps they'd build an OS that's better than Linux or the current crop of the *BSD's. Perhaps they'll build another HURD-a system that looks really fscking neat, but fails to deliver due to lack of {mindshare|interest|common knowledge|overambitious project}. Who knows until they try?
--
Man is it ever annoying when these open source projects spend tons of time on giving people titles, setting up cool websites and such before (or even instead of) doing any coding. For instance, from the website:
"TRG's MANOS logo was painted approximately 1500 years ago by an ancient artist who was one of the earliest inhabitants of Utah."
That's right, this project has been around for 1500 years and they are just now starting to code. Sheesh.
--
Linux MAPI Server!
http://www.openone.com/software/MailOne/
(Exchange Migration HOWTO coming soon)
Why not concentrate on something useful, like making Samba and NT to cooperate better ?
If i had any moderation points left, this would already be a (score 0, troll) article...
since when did the open source movement start telling people to stop development on any field because this other field is more important? if that was the case we could argue that maybe we should be growing from netware up to make linux/unix better, and stop working with samba since NT is already a piece of crap. but we don't say that because open source offeres something for everyone, regardless of what the ohters say. your argument is as bad as the one used by people who say that we shouldn't spend money on space travel becasue there's still a lot of problems here on earth that need solving.
Besides, Netware is not horrible and you know it. I've never come across any system that was as intuitive and easy to administer than Netware, but i don't think that's what this is about.
There are two kinds of people in the world: Those with good memory.
Maybe we should have a contest or a /. poll. Here're some of my (not so funny attempt at funny) suggestions:
- Mystery
- Money
- Monkey
- Moot
- Monstrous
Seriously, what *does* it stand for?--
Shouldn't that be 'man os'?
L0phtCrack
and for you CDC fans out there BackOrifice is installed by default!!..
Ok it sounded better in my head... *sigh*
Cool! Think of the features:
I would pay $50 for one!
(This will make no sense to anyone except MST3K fans. It refers to a movie that makes "Plan 9 from Outer Space" look like "Gone With the Wind".)
(*) Natalie Portman skin optional
A recent article on /. discussed:
IBM Takeover Of Novell?
Could it be that the powers that be at Timpanogas Research Group are looking for a possible buyout by IBM, too?
And following the link for this ("Open-Source Netware-Aware OS Under Consturction[sic]") article there is this:
IBM has considerable experience with lawyers and the cash to pay them. Could it be an attempt to find backing and protection at the same time?
Argh, you beat me to it. Good job!
The Divine Creatrix in a Mortal Shell that stays Crunchy in Milk
The House Between - Original Sci-Fi Series
I think the difference is that UNIX was (is!) a Good Thing - and it's worth making a free copy of it (Linux), or making it free (*BSD). OTOH, many people feel that Netware is *dead* - old and uninteresting, with nothing to offer.
Why would you need a copy of something *bad*? I would be interested to hear what the people at TRG had as their reason...
best wishes,
Mike.
Tales from behind the Lagom Curtain
He has been an active contributor to (at least) the discussion on the linux-kernel mailing list for the last year or so. Check out his entry in the Kernel Traffic People index.
It's very interesting to watch his interaction with the community, since he came in from a large software house and seem(ed, s) to not "get" the way Linux development works. Some of the discussions he's brought up really seem bizarre in the Linux world (incorporate fsck into the kernel, like w2k, or this little diatribe), but others have led to very positive developments (NTFS help, legal help, ...).
Some times this guy seems like he just doesn't get it, but then again he provides a very active *different* voice in l-k land. And the best part is that due to the nature of the project, people can basically ignore him when he rants and maybe still pick up some useful ideas along the way.
Directly related to this story, I'm not sure how much use an open NW-alike is, but hey, it's a free world.
-- Have you ever imagined a world with no hypothetical situations?
I think Netware is great. Its user and object mamagement is unmatched by any other server operating system I've ever used. Its sturdy, has good support, and does its job.
I'm not sure what else you need from it, it has a purpose and fullfills it. I consider its user management to be far superior to the standard linux or NT setup.
Altho Novell seem to be running around like headless chickens trying to decide what direction it is going in tho, trying to aim Netware 5 at the internet market is a late, and probably bad decision.
==============================
==============================
PROUD to be GEEK
- but whenever I look at that GNU image on the topic bar, I see an caped eagle with a leather face mask and an erection.
See, you have to think of the gaps between the horns as an eye. The leftmost horn is the beak. The blanket becomes a cape. The eagle is standing proudly with an arched back, and, as any fool can plainly see, he has an erection.
Good for him.
Except that one of the principals of the project, Jeff Merkey, already contributes scads of code to Linux and is very active on the lkml. He's already worked on lots of filesystems and he's contributed a new open source debugger for debugging a running kernel. It seems that Linux has already benefited.
I have discovered a truly marvelous sig, unfortunately the sig limit is too small to contain i
this is cool i guess, but it doesn't circumvent the underlying problem:
NetWare sucks.
Now that we can have Linux or BSD used as both Netware, TCP/IP, Web, RealAudio, AppleTalk, Samba, etc. servers, how could one OS that is not, at this moment, guaranteed to work as well as the Linux/BSD things be successfull ?
Netware has indeed a great reputation but convincing people to switch to it and thus lose the extra protocol/services they would have under another already available Free OS sounds risky, IMHO...
Has there been a "market-pemetration" study ?
--
Trolling using another account since 2005.
"Our intent is to support existing Linux applications and drivers on an optimized NOS [network operating system] kernel that provides comparable performance metrics to today's Netware product line."
Thats all very nice to hear but when you take a look at the current server market (and the market shares offcourse) you will notice that Novell's share is decreasing very rapidly. Despite the fact that their NOS is a very robust and stable one its obvious, judging by the statistics, that the people want something else (more) nowadays. One could speculate on how people seemed to loose interest, IMHO one of the reasons is due to their own 'special' way of supporting TCP/IP but thats besides the point.
So I wonder why they want to focus on a complete new OS, which is based on a fading one, instead of supporting the currently available OS'ses even better? Sure; a Netware based OS which can also run Linux applications sounds nice but not necessary; if I need Linux support I'd just setup another server running Linux, its free remember?
As for the Netware part; if I'd have to choose between a (proven) stable NOS like netware or a new (free) product on the market I'd choose for Netware. Thats how it works when running a business. Even these folks feel the same on this: "Our first target shipment is geared to providing NetWare 4.11 NDS and networking capability in an open-source form to Novell's existing customers,". This also sounds very promising but don't forget that they plan to release somewhere in "the second half of 2001". How many Netware users will be left then? No one can predict this for sure but I really don't think it will be enough to make this whole product commonly accepted. It would take time, much effort and a lot of people supporting it.
If these folks really want to give out more support for Netware I'd personally suggest focusing on building and extending NDS support for Linux instead of selling it.
I understand why making a GPL version of Netware might be interesting, but is it really worth it? The one really nice thing about Netware is NDS, and we already have that for Linux, and most other major platforms. Novell seems to be betting the company on their NDS/Directory technology, not Netware, so wouldn't an open source GPL'd version of NDS be more interesting and perhaps more useful? (I have no idea if it'd even be possible to create a free NDS that's compatable with their version, but hey, it's a thought!)
They should have named it MENOS as in "mas o menos." :-)
-JD
I could actually use something like this. Can't upgrade the clients past Win 3.11 because the software will only function under Win 3.11 with low-end hardware. Inherited the project with no documentation. And if there's any downtime on one machine, we lose three others. It's a spaghetti setup :)
If there was an open-source LanMan replacement, we could probably streamline the updating of the macines.
Nuff said.
I wonder if they'll use Freud in their ads. "What do you want to do to your mother today?"
Mr. Ska
That the Master approves.
.. which it very well may. How will Novell react? Ms likes to react by changing their API so only they can use it. Novell, selling their server software as server software more than an OS to develop a lot on. Will Novell cut down on their licensing fees? Will they try to take legal action?
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-
ping -f 255.255.255.255 # if only
"Hey guys, what should we call our new company?"
"How about.. ummm.." [FART] "Oh, excuse me!"
"Hey, that's it!! Now we just need to make it sound classy..."
"Anal Thunderclap? Magnum G.I. Tract? Sousaphone Orifice? Timpani Gas?"
"Timpanogas! Yeah.."
Mr. Ska
Has anyone found any specs on the options the os offers, other than the Netware compatability and DLL loading? Sounds like the exec got pissed at Novell and went off and did his own thing his way, taking Novell developed "parts" with him. Also, if they are looking for linux support, why give the ability to load win DLLs?
Even the samurai
have teddy bears,
and even the teddy bears
Even the samurai
have teddy bears,
and even the teddy bears
get drunk
My sincere apologies if I'm wrong, but wasn't Timpanogas formed by some former Novell employees who had been working on Novell clustering technology? Didn't they leave Novell, form a new company, and then immediately announce their own clustering software? Didn't Novell sue the hell out of them, search their homes, and essentially prove that they had stolen code that Novell paid them to produce?
If so, is there any risk that they may still have some proprietary code that they intend to use for this project? Has any GPL'ed code ever been found to be in violation of someone else's copyrighted proprietary code?
Again, maybe it was another company, and if so I apologize profusely.
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SERENITY NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Why is it that every announcement on Slashdot made that is vaguely related to free software (or to something being GPL'd) is tagged with the GNU logo?
This story has no relation to GNU whatsoever. Can someone come up with a "free software" logo for this sort of news?
> Face it. Unix is obsolete.
;)
It's irrelevant to my point: whereas a great proportion of the industry disagrees with you (support for UNIX, particularly the free unicies, is growing), Netware is going: people are migrating *from* netware. Maybe you were trying to goad me, but it wont work because I'm not a UNIX weenie
> This appears to be an OS that is being designed, not just reimplemented to mimic something 30 years old.
It's a clone of Netware! It's being designed to mimic an old OS... a bit like Linux. Did you have a point?
> I expected to see this kind of ranting before I even started reading the comments.
You think that's ranting? I assume English isn't your first language then.
[www.m-w.com] intransitive senses 1 : to talk in a noisy, excited, or declamatory manner 2 : to scold vehemently
Those are my views on the subject, articulated in a measured manner. You don't like them? Fine, but I'm afraid it's no more of a rant than it is a rabbit.
best wishes,
Mike.
Tales from behind the Lagom Curtain
Whoever they are, they don't know how to spell Timpanogos, that alone is pretty embarrasing.
Maybe it's not their fault. See, it's the name of the tallest mountain around these parts. There are two trails to the peak, and the easiest one is the one maintained by the girl scouts of america. And since they're ignorant, they spelled the sign at the trail head Timpanogas. And since they're cheap, they never fixed the sign. But it's still embarrasing. It's spelled Timpanogos. Anyone who had to study it in elementary school knows that.
So, aparantly, these guys have never hiked it (and it's almost a requirement to hike it at least once if you live here), or they've only hiked it the easy way.
All that being said, there are facts to be pointed out.
1: They've been mentioned here before. At that time i think it was netware support for linux or somesuch.
2: Former Novell Execs are a dime a dozen. Honestly, being a Vice President at Novell is like being a middle-managment pencil pusher anywhere else. They have so many of them that the term no longer has any meaning.
3: If they can't spell the name of the valley's most prominant landmark correctly I've absolutly no faith in them.
This is just like television, only you can see much further.
Merkey was not a executive at novell, he did the first multi proc stuff in netware.. and it was a pile of shit... after a number of legal problems (he stealing code) this is his idea to put novell under... he writes shit code.. and this will not work for crap i am sure.
Well, probably for lots of good reasons. We in the modern world seem to have trundled down the path of "one OS can fulfill all our needs" [which ironically is the microsoft mantra as well] when really to get the absolute best out of a system you need to use an OS optimised for the job.
Netware brings with it rock solid File and Print server capablities - far beyond what Linux or NT currently offer. As a fileserver I still believe that you can't get a better product than Netware. Then there's NDS which is a great tool for maintaing complex security on a large network and thats also had years of testing. IMHO implementing these features in a specialised open source OS is great as it then gives us a choice, MANOS for the file and print, linux on the desktops and DB servers and *BSD where a blindingly fast web/ftp/intranet server is required etc. That way we get the best of every aspect without a single OS become a jack of all trades and master of none [essentially the trap I believe MS have fallen into]
J
I am not a Frog. I am a Free Womble!
What saves Novell's butt outide of the file-&-print world is NDS. Directory Services done right. No crappy NT wierdness, no bizarre limitations, this thing is a true distributed object-oriented directory you can stick about anything into. Novell took all of that time in the field and learned what SysAdmins really want : the ability to manange everything from one point fast, easily, reliably, and in quantity. No six-tools-piped-together-then-hand-added-to-each-s ystem, no custom-scripts-only-their-writer-understands-&-he- left-last-year, no scramble to find & close accounts when someone jumps ship, no you-do-it-this-way-here-and-that-way-there - instead all in one easy to read, easy to architect, very flexible directory. User information? Here. Maiden names? There. Desktop prefs? There. Printer settings? There. Printer drivers? Over there. Notes account? There. AIX acounts? There. Phone numbers? Here. Fax box? There. Billing center? Here. AOL Chat? Here. All there - everywhere.
Unfortunately Novell hasn't figured out how to make this wonder universal. Sure it runs on a couple of platforms but there's little to encourage new folks to move to it. If any product ever needed at 200-user-&-90-day free trial this is it. Let the masses get a taste and they'll want more. Unfortunately Novell hasn't figured out how to do so.
What they have done is put out a few lame Netware-drivers that rely on IPX (remember IPX? Secure, smart, but not TCP/IP) and were closely tied to specific kernels. They want to let other folks in but are afraid of loosing the jewels. NDS on open-source boxes - their fear is how to get them to pay for the intellectual property (& Novell has staked their fortune on developing NDS!) Most of the /.'ers just want their hands on tech they don't want to pay big upfront license fees for but when that's the only model you have then you're stuck. Sell support? Not much use in a business like directory services. Charge for development tools? Yeah - developers don't need anyone that much anymore.
Anyway, this crew from Novell helped develop & pre-market the Novell's next-gen clustering technology and when it was about baked jumped ship and started telling folks they were going to sell pretty much what they'd been developing at Novell. Lawsuits ensue and these folks find out that you can't just walk out the door with the tech. Big bills are paid and so they decide to go off in the Utah desert & reinvent Netware. Unfortunately they hadn't noticed 'till recently that no one needs another Netware, particularly a third party one that couldn't run what apps Netware already has and is only compatible with an obsolete (4.11) version.
So now they're offering is drivers to read Netware file systems (nice but not an overwhelming need in most quarters) and a new OS that can use Linux drivers under a new "MANOS" kernel to integrate with Netware environments. Oh, and there's some talk of an open source NDS clone but no one has seen any evidence of this (at least that I'm aware of.) This of course all has to be done without violating the legal decisions against them from their last run-in with Novell where they had to agree not to use or release any secrets.
Yay. Another open source OS, albiet from a good developer, whose sales feature is the ability to integrate with a platform that's not growing and a promise to deliver an open-source version of NDS - something that has taken a lot of very bright folks a lot of time to develop & tune, all without infringing on trade secrets or legal agreements. Oh, and this thing will be like Netware - no apps for it (the ability to read DLLs and such is interesting but without the infrastructure to host them not much good.) Just what the world needs.
Here's an idea: someone develop a good set of open-source libraries for an NDS clone. Or someone figure out a model for Novell to release theirs yet still make money on them. But please, lets not tie them to another limited-application OS. Enough reinventing the wheel - we're at the point where everyone just wants components that an be added a la carte to their favorite and/or most appropriate OS.
Please, before folks start posting how they recall with disfavor their experiences with Netware in '86 or whenever recall what the competition was also like back then. Also, if you haven't used Netware 5.0 then you really should be quiet - these days it's very different from what you recall; very sophisticated, very polished, and very good at what it does. Frankly if I could use Netware for my file & print serving, Linux for my application hosting, and NDS to tie everything together they'd kick.
I don't read ACs: If a post isn't worth so much as a nom de plume to its author then I wont bother either.
I think they won't have to deal with too many drivers (who needs sound card support for their file server?). Anything essential may be borrowed from Linux kernel (power of GPL!). Also some sode has been implemented in the MARS-NWE project. What's left: stabilization and integration of NDS, and some utilities.
I like this kind of projects... If it ever becomes mature enough, i can kiss NT's goodbye...
If these guys worked on NetWare, how can they create a competing OS without violating trade secret and copyright laws? Every other OS built to directly compete with another commercial OS uses clean-room techniques to ensure that the code is not tainted.
Software sucks. Open Source sucks less.
Half the problems attributed to Windows95 were problems integrating it with Novell networks. Who wants obsolete IPX traffic gacking up their network? Novell's never implemented TCP/IP properly, they did far worse than Microsoft ever did, trying to make it propietary and lock in that customer base.
Want to triple the service calls for workstations on your network, at the same time acheiving a four-fold drop in system response time? Simply install Novell's Network Client on an NT Workstation.
I worked for one of the best Novell shops in town, and my job was converting networks to NT and cleaning up the crap Novell left behind. I left to pursue NT, and the company stuck with Novell. Less than two years later they've folded.
Linux does NOT NEED to be dragged down to the level of a Novell network. It can do everything Novell can do faster and better, except run propietary software that requires a Netware server. That's not software anybody needs.
Anyone else thinks this looks like a "sleezy" OS? I don't know, I just got that first impression. That is the first word that came to my mind when I seen their home page. I haven't used it and am pretty sure it isn't "sleezy".
But I felt kinda dirty looking at the web site, when a co worker walked by I quickly closed the window, like it was porn. I don't do that with any other OS web site, including Microsoft and Sun's, well expect for the p0rn OS homepage.
"`Ford, you're turning into a penguin. Stop it.'" -THHGTTG
I thought netware was it's own OS already.
http://youare.whyihate.com
Maybe some people *LIKE* the novell NDS architecture instead of winnt. With this they can modify it for any use they want. Why is win2k more like NDS than the old domain style? I thought all the linux zealots preached freedom of choice (freedom of only their choice).
Only the State obtains its revenue by coercion. - Murray Rothbard
If they do this without Novell's approval, then, well, "I'll have my lawyers talk with your lawyers." They're likely to get snarled up in legal wranglings regardless of the precise correctness of their actions.
If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.
Seeing as how the company's Partners includes Novell, the Canopus Group, and Caldera, it seems reasonably likely that the enterprise comes with the "blessing" both of Ray Noorda and of Novell.
I'm sure the lawyers have "already talked," and were perhaps even involved with the initial establishment of Timpanogas...
If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.
Yes, you and I read lkml, and I'm sure (I hope) some of the
The slashdot crowd as a whole isn't as technical as it once was... I have some complaints about the recent quality of slashdot postings just like the next guy, but I solve it by reading the ones I like and ignoring the ones I don't - somebody likes the ones I don't, and I don't begrudge them their stories.
If any replacement is as good as Linux is for the branded Unix OS's it might even take off.
Don't know if anyone mentioned it yet, but MS's next gen active directory services are startlingly similar to NDS and in fact there is a direct migration path between the two. The point of this is.. what chance will a GPL'ed OS have (with less features) when the other "Big Boy" on the block has already co-opted a fix for most of the compatability issues?
Dirty Pirate Hooker
ipxgateway_enable="YES"
There are some other tools in /usr/ports for NDS, etc.
I'm not sure about Net/Open, never used them extensively.
[Rewind the clock about six or seven years...]
With Linux, our intent is to support existing Windows applications (with Wine) on an optimized OS kernel that provides comparable performance metrics to today's Unix product lines.
That's all very nice to hear, but when you take a look at the current server market (and the market shares, of course) you will notice that Unix's share is decreasing very rapidly. Despire the fact that their NOS is a very robust and stable one, it is obvious, juding by the statistics, that the people want something else (more) nowadays. One could speculate on why people seemed to loose interest. IMHO, one of the reasons is their own 'special' way of supporting SMB, but that's besides the point.
So I wonder why they want to focus on a complete new OS, which is based on a fading one (Unix), instead of supporting the currently available OSes even better? Sure; a Unix based OS which can also run Windows applications sounds nice but not necessary; if I need Windows support I'd just setup another server running Windows; it comes with the PC, remember?
As for the Windows part; if I'd have to choose between a (proven) stable NOS like Windows NT or a new (free) product on the market I'd choose Windows. That is how it works when running a business.
Don't forget that they plan to developing into 2000 and beyond. How many Unix users will be left then? No one can predict this for sure but I really don't think it will be enough to make this whole product commonly accepted. It would take time, much effort and a lot of people supporting it.
[For the clue impaired: Everything the original poster says about NetWare can be applied almost verbatim to Linux six years ago. Funny how point-of-view makes such a difference, eh?]
dragonhawk@iname.microsoft.com
I do not like Microsoft. Remove them from my email address.
Half the problems attributed to Windows95 were problems integrating it with Novell networks.
Indeed. But is that a problem with Windows95 or with NetWare? Given the deliberate brain-damage in Microsoft's "Client for NetWare Networks", and their past track record in general, I know who I would blame.
Novell's never implemented TCP/IP properly...
While they were dragged in screaming, fighting tooth and nail, Novell finally did wake up and smell the Internet. NetWare 5.0's IP stack is actually pretty good.
Want to triple the service calls for workstations on your network, at the same time acheiving a four-fold drop in system response time? Simply install Novell's Network Client on an NT Workstation.
A short version is, IMO, "Simply install NT Workstation."
I left to pursue NT...
But you're not biased or anything...
Linux does NOT NEED to be dragged down to the level of a Novell network.
Regardless of which way Linux would be dragged, it is worth pointing out that this project is only tangentially related to Linux. It is mainly a project to implement an ABI compatible NetWare clone under an Open Source license. I don't remember Open Source being declared limited to Unix.
dragonhawk@iname.microsoft.com
I do not like Microsoft. Remove them from my email address.
This is my 1st post so bare with me..
Yes Novell is no longer NOS market leaders, when they were, NOS meant file and print services. Now NOS means a lot more. Does this mean Netware is dead? Perhaps Netware is dead/ing (I do not think so), but Novell!=Netware.
Multiplatform NDS is Novell and their recent products reflect this.
1) What I have observed about organizations with IT departments..
If the IT group responsible for server services does not have close ties to the IT group responsible for desktop services, you are more likely to run *nix (if the admin is smart and the manager has balls) otherwise M$.
IF this is not the case and the two groups have close ties or are one then suddenly netware+NDS+ZenWorks is a compelling solution for file and print services. Now with NDS on linux and Solaris it is possible to have one login+password for each user for ALL services.
2) I work in a "Netware Shop", we are not committed to Novell, (we only run Netware) email is unix, web is unix, Oracle is on unix. Each system is a separate userID+password. Yes we started with Netware 2.x to 3.x to 4.11. We are contemplating moving to nw5.x. For over a year I have been researching our upgrade options (for FILE SERVICES, to replace Netware 4.xx)
One of the key requirements is a Journaling File System.
NW5.x has NSS. A journaling filesystem which now has quota support (a requirement).
Linux has ReiserFS. It works great, but the lack of VMM that understands Journaling FSs is not an acceptable compromize. (I had high hopes for lk2.4)
NT has NTFS. It is NOT a journaling FS, enough said.
All the other considerations aside..
The lack of desktop management tools comparable to NDS+Zenworks (on Linux) tips the scales in favour of Netware (for our environment).
3) eDirectory is the only multiplatform directory. Directories are not about savings, i.e. CFOs may not notice the saving but CIO will notice the ubiquity, get it?
This sig space tolet, reasonable rate.
Isn't there already a NW-compatible free server, which is Mars NWE ?
-- javaDragon is an instance of JavaDragon.
But what about OSX and Darwin? Doesn't Apple allow either to be downloaded for free?
Whatcha do is you create an open Carbon library (call it libDiamond, libGraphite, or libBuckyBall or something of the sort), slap it together with GNUStep (with the DGS part rewritten to support a reasonable facsimile of Quartz), then throw the whole thing over Darwin. Presto, FreeMacOS. Shouldn't take more than, oh, a couple of years. (I am surprised there's no sign of a free Carbon implementation out there, though...) /Brian
It is a shame that Apple didn't open up all the OSX code so that others could create versions of it. But I suppose that is an advantage of a BSD License over a GPL license, eh?
Also they could do a WINTEL port and run OSX and MacOS applications on WINTEL systems if they did that, right?
I am just asking because I don't really know. Just in theory this could happen right?
I remember some people doing something like that to make a replacement AmigaDOS project or something.