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3Com To Charge $20 For Palm OS 3.5
Alex Bischoff writes: "According to this NY Times Article, 3Com will release Palm OS 3.5 in the fall, but for about $20. 'Mr. Cook said that he had already heard grumbling from some Palm users about the upgrading fee and that some future releases might still be free.' ObCredit: PalmStation." (Free registration, worth every penny.) I wonder if this is a way to sell more (new) Palms?
...when you can simply buy a brand spanking new palm of the same type you already have now, stick your old one in the box, and return it. Bam, free upgrade to OS 3.5 and a new palm. Just be sure you do a hard reset and wipe your old data off once you verify your data is on the new palm. This will also benefit those who might have a palm device with the bad memory installed. Just buy the new palm, back up all your databases from the old palm, put the new palm in the cradle, sync it, and you're pretty much done. It would probably take less time (minus the time waiting in the checkout line at your local store) to do it that way then it would to actually upgrade the OS.
End Of Line
the change in the OS to non-techy people will be the extra view in the date-book, and the fact that the battery meter is 3d looking (oooh)
i agree that the hardware is the main thing, but when you are comparing V and Vx, and VII and VIIx palms (which i think may be the only ones that the upgrades for, but 'm not sure), where the main difference is the memory, i think its the middle level people who'll go after it.
and me of course
--I dunno much about these things, so shoot me down if I'm bad
== Perl generally does the right thing, unless you want it to do something else ==
You may not be able to upgrade from 3.{4,3,2,1,etc} from linux, but OS patches are no problem. I have a Vx running PalmOS 3.5 which I just patched w/ pilot-xfer. It comes as a .zip ('the Winblows version') or a .sit ('the Mac version') which decompresses to a .prc. At least they made this part easy.
--
Yes...I am a rocket scientist.
how does switching from free to charging $20 leave anybody out in the cold?
My guess is that it should work on any Palm. A few months ago, I picked up a IIIxe. It came with OS 3.5.
Has me wondering why it has taken 3Com this long to release it.
Defecation occurs.
Don't be ridiculous. Why, that would be like buying a whole new computer just to get the latest version of Windows (or MacOS, or pick your OS) pre-installed.
Oh, wait, people do that...
"I came here to kick ass and chew bubblegum. I'm all out of bubblegum." MSE USC APX AIA CSI CASp
I do own a palm V and am running there OS 3.3. I think it works fine. What does OS 3.5 have that 3.3 doesn't? If you buy a new Palm will it have OS 3.5 or will it still have 3.3 and will they include an upgrade cupon or something?
Personally I think that this is a result of palm OS being free adn Sony and handspring (to mention a few) coming out with palm devices based on the palm os that are better to some extent than palm, and palm sales are probably not as good as they should be. This may be designed to hurt the competition not so much as the end users. But I wonder if they realize that by doing this who will be the one to get the added charges?
It looks like just another case of some company saying our OS is free and then saying no it is not. The same thing can happen with QT so watch out which verison you use for kde all ;-O
I don't want a lot, I just want it all!
Flame away, I have a hose!
Only 'flamers' flame!
For reference, I have a TRGPro, so the upgrade was released a while ago for me, and it was free. Although the download is there for non-TRGPros, do not try to use it on a 'normal' Palm - it will not work. Also, the 'register as a developer and you can download it' method has two drawbacks - it only works for US-based developers, and I bet there will be some toughening up on this method when Palm start selling the 3.5 OS.
Paranoia isn't an infectious condition, it's a way of life
I am confused, when I got my Palm Vx it already had PalmOS 3.5, I've updated it to 3.5.2 since then.
/Simon
AFAIK, you cannot upgrade the OS on a Handspring. Is this same limitation present on the Sony PDA?
Defecation occurs.
Gee, isn't that the way that Microsoft Windows has been ever since 1992? Shows what the Palm coders were too busy playing with: Linux.
"Ancillary does not mean you get to rule the world." --U.S. Circuit Judge Harry Edwards, speaking to the FCC's lawyer
I don't think my wife really cares how much it costs, she's only interested in the changes made. I have a hard enough time talking her into letting me put Linux on our shared home computer.
I'm on a chair.
i am fervently hoping that TRG wont follow suit
to 3Com. (i own a TRG)but i am afraid that the
market will dictate TRGs move. also other
companies move's (Sony).
if your customers have been loyal to you, (your
product) why burden them with additional fees
to pay.
yorosiku,
sessyargc.
- not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted
The Datebook's new Agenda view combines a view of a day's appointments with the day's ToDo tasks
This has been a feature on DateBk3 for a while, which I highly recommend as a Datebook replacement. (Although it costs $20 alone)
The Alarm dialog now has larger buttons to facilitate finger operation, as well as a "Snooze" button
Another DateBk3 option, along with various snoozes.
The Command bar
Very win, but the same can be accomplished with GoBar ($14)
Tapping the title tab of an application shows the menu bar
Menu Hack ($free)
I started this post as an arguement against the $20 upgrade, but on a little research, I found they're incorporating products (or portions thereof) that together amount to a bit more than $20. I doubt that I'll buy the upgrade anyway.
-----
"Defenestration" is to throw out of a window; what's a word for throwing 'Windows' out of something?
TRGPro has had PalmOS 3.5.1 on their website free for download, for the last few months. I've been using it since. Love my TRGPro.
Damn, could have sworn I used a "" in there. =]
Ok, there is lots of bitching and moaning, but nothing will happen unless we let Palm know how bad of an idea this is. Any ideas who to contact? ...And why is everyone talking about the $20 covering retail materials & packaging? I've never seen a Palm OS upgrade through retail - they've just been internet downloads.
It is really cool that Apple released all their old software (System 7.5.5 and back) for free download and use (no support of course). System 7.5.5 was codename Unity. At the time, it could run on every Macintosh computer ever made. Quite a feat of software engineering at the OS level.
On the other hand, the Mac OS X beta costs $29.99. Thirty dollars is a lot to pay, though my copy is on its way. If I had a Palm (and most of the rest of my family does), I would be quite happy to pay $20 for an OS update -- provided there was anything in the OS I needed.
--
--
He lives in a world where those who do not run the client software of the omnipresent meme are unacceptable.
One company I dealt with had all their minor upgrades in the form of OS patches, applyable via sets of floppies from a remote machine. The patch could be downloaded from wherever (BBS at first, FTP later), or if you wanted physical media and printed release notes, pay a small sum ($20 was about right) for something physical, either a box of floppies or later, a CD-ROM. There was no qualms about us duplicating patches FOC for customers.
I've not read the link (needs registration), so I've no idea if this is the method proposed by 3Com, but a small administration fee seems plausable,
Maybe if people start to realize that there should be an alternative to PalmOS, it will be good for the ucLinux and PicoGUI projects?
-- 2 + 2 = 5, for very large values of 2
Shouldn't that be Palm Inc. now? :-)
-Karl
I wonder if... 3Com should make it clear if its revenues come from the selling of Palm devices (in which case the OS should remain free), or if it shifted to a software house concept (in that case it should develop a multi-platform system for multiple CPUs) and charge for the OS.
At the end of the day, most Palm users will balk at the fee and will make do with what they have or they'll get the upgrade by other means, e.g. through warez sites.
OK, so Palm wants to charge for upgrades. Fair enough.
Now, could someone run down a list of differences between 3.3 and 3.5, for those of us who would like to determine if it's actually worth what they're charging? If it's not worth it, I'll stick with 3.3, thank you very much.
Honestly, I don't like this. PalmOS upgrades have always been free in the past; to delay upgrades for several months and then start charging for them with no warning whatsoever is questionable at best. Further, this isn't about R&D costs; Palm and Palm-related products are so popular they had to have recouped those costs ages ago from the devices they sell that run it (not to mention royalties from other companies who make devices that run the OS; I'll bet they don't have to pay nearly as much per unit).
But, as I said, fair enough that they charge $20 for an upgrade. Provided, of course, that the upgrade's actually worth $20. I'm not yet ruling out that it might be; unlike certain companies based in Redmond that change a couple lines of code and use that to try and justify exorbitant prices for their "upgrades," Palm might actually have a product worth selling. We'll have to wait and see.
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True, but the Visor uses the PalmOS too. So, the question is, will Handspring also charge for an "upgrade" to their version of the OS? Granted, they apparently do customize the copy that they have licensed from Palm. I've been looking at buying a Visor but, I'm still shopping around. I think the "gameboy" style modules are a pretty cool idea. We'll see...
"Klaatu, verada, necktie!" -Ash
Is this a different version than the 3.5 I (apparently) have on my Vx now? How do I find the actual version number of the OS? All the standard apps have 3.5 version numbers on their "About" pages, including "Applications" and "Hotsync".
Well, considering the Visors can't be updated (no Flash ROM), they can't really charge for what they aren't doing. At least my Palm's OS can be upgraded, though I think that it sucks that the 3.5 upgrade is gonna cost $20.
_____
Sam: "That was needlessly cryptic."
Max: "I'd be peeing my pants if I wore any!"
The Visor is neat, but don't think you can sidestep the upgrading problem by going to a device that can't be upgraded at the ROM level. All this means is that you won't even have the option to upgrade to OS 3.5. Oh well.
For more information, click here.
Charging for upgrades will only aggravate the consumer.
...and the aggravated consumer will what? Trade in the 3Com PDA for a Handspring or Sony? Over $20?
Apple is one company that comes to mind who makes the hardware and sells their own operating system, but they certainly don't charge for small revisions.
At the prices Apple is charging for their systems, to charge for small revisions might cause someone to compare Apple to Microsoft and Jobs to Gates. We can't have that!
What's the turnover rate on PDAs? How long does the typical user keep his/her Palm before upgrading hardware?
Defecation occurs.
Why is everyone still saying this is coming from 3Com? Palm is now a completely separate entity. Is 3Com still doing the OS for them or something?
This version shipped on my Palm IIIc...so why are they releasing it in the fall? More time to market it and make pretty retail packaging? likely...
For a closed source os that actually *works* i don't think $20 is unreasonable. You've got to keep in mind, plam needs to pay for media, disttrobution and manuals... right off the top.
besides, if your that hell bend on not paying or just don't have the cash, i'm sure it'll hit the irc warez channels soon.
about the only recently sold palm that it wont work with is the palm 3e which doesnt have the ability to upgrade its os. I believe it uses normal rom instead of eeproms but i'm not exactly sure.
"My head hurts, My feet stink, and I dont love Jesus." -Jimmy Buffett
Actually Palm is not even 3Com anymore. I used to work there (3Com), and they spun Palm in to its own entity a few months ago. They are off on their own and making their own decisions about what to do with there platform, what to charge, etc.
While I haven't gone to read the whole article from this stupid site that requires login/pass,
I still think that the article or the poster is wrong.
PlamOS 3.5 existed for a while now and it was installed by default on several Palm models, such as my Pilot Vx (which has been shipping for like 8 months now).
Why would Palm alienate their consumer?
Well, for one thing, their major revenue growth and projected area for most earnings is licensing. You get licensing revenues when you do an upgrade. This is where Bill G makes all the bucks. But, as compared to MSFT, Palm actually gives you new features (if you didn't buy a recent model) and it's a lot less buggy.
Secondly, remember that Palm is now separate from 3Com, and so they need to think about what works for them.
[caveat - I own Palm (at IPO) and some MSFT shares]
Will in Seattle
That the company actually tries to get R&D costs back somehow.
Chas - The one, the only.
THANK GOD!!!
Chas - The one, the only.
THANK GOD!!!
Anyone know what platforms it's meant for? :)
i.e. can I upgrade my 2MB Palm V?
(and still have some flashmemory for FlashPro to play with
USD20 doesn't seem like an awful lot for an OS upgrade of this kind. Why should Palm Inc give away for free something they've been paying their employees to work on over a long time? It's not like your Palm will stop working if you don't upgrade.
--
"Oppression and harassment is a small price to pay to live in the land of the free." -- Montgomery Burns.
Bad PR Move. And consumers are fickle creatures. They've just gambled their progression to industry dominance a bit pre-maturely. I'm already pretty pissed off with them since I can't upgrade PalmOS from Linux (No windows on the system.) Think next time I'm in the market, I'll check out one of the new Linix based PDA's.
I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?
Is this just for consumers, or does Handspring have to pay anything? (i.e. "The 3Com Tax", or even worse, fragmenting PalmOS...)
---
pb Reply or e-mail; don't vaguely moderate.
pb Reply or e-mail; don't vaguely moderate.
Palm is totally pulling a Microsoft here.
Think about it, where do you go to buy a palm without a copy of palmOS on it? You can't.
Basically, Palm gave away the software to establish a monopoly position, and now that you've got no choice but to get PalmOS on your Palm, they'll charge an arm and a leg for upgrades.
It's totally bogus.
I think the DOJ needs to get involved here.
--Shoeboy
Ya zee - itza notta zin zu makeza moonee. Idza zin to givez it awayza for free-ah. Youza little numbzkulla been geddin tooze mucha for free-ah. Youza needza put someza that moonee awayze. Buyza someding. Itz notza extortion racketz. Itza my life-a breada. I gotza getz paid-a.
I see no problem with it - as attempted in the poor attempt at parody above. ( Say it in a mafia voice ).
Palm deserves to charge what ever they see fit. They also deserve to take the consequences for their actions. If people don't like it - it'll be reflected in competitor's projects, in free-Palm-OS movement etc...
In short, it's Palm's decision - not yours so get over it.
There's a gorilla from Manilla whose a fella that stinks of vanilla and has salmonella.
"Sometimes it will make sense to charge for an upgrade,"
Hmm.. I wonder if it's a case of it makes sense to charge for this update, as they have the 'internet kit' that includes this update for 'free'.
This sounds like a bit of a scam that says for $20 you get an update to your OS that gives you a little extra, when, for just a few dollars more, you can have the whole 'internet kit'. The amount of pressure on people to buy the internet kit is now very heavy if they wish to upgrade their machine at all..
I think this is a case of the beancounters getting a little greedy...
Bad form guys, bad form.
Malk.
Charging for it is fine, releasing it for free is fine. But if you promise customers one thing, don't change your mind all of a sudden and leave them out in the cold. That's just going to alienate customers, and blathering about "we think we have added a lot more value" won't help you.
TO BUY A NEW CAR WOULD MAKE YOU SEXUALLY ATTRACTIVE.
Why exactly do you need an upgrade anyway? Has anyone really run into a problem that a slightly more advanced PalmOS would fix?
--
Even though 3Com are charging for the upgrade, how many people will actually take the upgrade. A consumer device's identity is more to do with the hardware, rather than the software it's running. I mean, hey sure you and I may upgrade, but the average middle manager who likes to play with it on the train is hardly a likely candidate.
-- Hob - Java Spectrum Emulator
Paying for Win95, the Win 98 (Win 95+ latest IE), then Win 98 SE (Win 98 without as many bugs), then Windows ME (Win 98 with more bugs), should be considered a crime.
But I am swinging off topic, Palm OS is looking to be a standard OS for PDA's. In the future, Palm will only get corporate users buying their hardware (thats the way corporations are). The rest will be sold by the likes of Handspring and Sony and others. Lots of money can be made off these upgrades. 3Com just needs to be careful not to screw its users in the long term by releasing too often and charging for all upgrades.
Why oh Why, can't we get linux with X on this thing? It's been done for 3 other "palmish" devices, and cince this is the oldest palm platform it should have had it first!
It looks like I'm either selling away my 16 meg IIIx (Modifyed of course!) and getting an iPaq or that other one that is already running Linux + X.
I had hoped that Palm would have by now "opened" their OS, but that was always a pipe dream.
on the other side? I am betting there will be a whole bunch of palm devices WITHOUT the 3.5 upgrade applied to it. The general user could care less, Heck, the 12 palm owners here didn't know or care about the 3.0 to 3.3 upgrade, and there are 3 users still using 2.x and everything still works for them..
Why upgrade? Geek peer pressure.
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
Gorkman
Got Rhinos?
Got HTML? Want LaTeX? Try html2latex
Palm started out giving upgrades away free. Now people are upset, because they expected the upgrade to be free, are now finding themselves with a $20 charge.
If Palm had always charged for upgrades, 3.5 would be no different from any other upgrade.
On a personal (and perhaps a little offtopic) note, I'm sick of hearing about these people having fun playing with the unit in the palm of their hand (pun intended). Since when was a monochrome toy that makes clicks and buzzes so fun? Oh yeah, I remember now, the etch-a-sketch! Haven't you PDA dorks grown up yet?
"Ancillary does not mean you get to rule the world." --U.S. Circuit Judge Harry Edwards, speaking to the FCC's lawyer
xterm does the same thing. rxvt does something similar (triple-clicking selects the text from the cursor to the end of the line - or it did the last time I used rxvt, which is a poor xterm clone with pretty graphics, at best.)
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
I was kinda getting used to the free upgrades (granted, most wouldn't run on my Palm IIIe anyway - only the newer ones).
- I don't care if they globalize against free speech. All my best free thoughts are done in my head.
I'm on the list as an early adopter for the $250 linux PDA, mostly because I'm curious, but partially because I think 3Com is satan.
I kept my Palm Pro for quite a while before I went up to the Visor. The Visor has more memory (8mb to the 2mb of my upgraded pro) and the expansion slot. I Actually have something in my expansion slot, as well.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
--
--
"I personal[ly] think Unix is "superior" because on LSD it tastes like Blue." -- jbarnett
Given that you can sign up for free to Palm's developer network, and download all kinds of OS versions (regular, debug, beta...) I'm not too worried about this.
$20 is a reasonable price tag for boxing it, shrink-wrapping it, and distributing it with a nice install guide and user's manual so your PHB can get it at BestBuy. The cost is for the convenience, not the technology.
Same thing as getting a Linux distro: if you know what you're doing, it's free. If you want the "for Dummies" edition, get out the checkbook.
Wes
QWxsIHlvdXIgQmFzZTY0IGFyZSBiZWxvbmcgdG8gdXMh
If you've used Windows CE you probably already know that it can scarcely compete with PalmOS. Versions of CE are radically different and incompatible from each other, its slow, takes a lot of RAM (which lowers battery life), and on my Sharp Tripad it crashes constantly.
CE will always have a niche market because they are are always coming out with gimmicks in CE devices (MP3 players, color, cameras etc). These gimmicks are not bad ideas, but they are gimmicks, there is no promise of consistant or long term support for them.
PalmOS works today, it worked yesterday, and it will work tommorow. None of these things are true of Windows CE.
How much is Apple charging for the final release after you've purchased a beta?
Defecation occurs.
...just replace the "www" with "partners" in the URL.
http://www.nytimes.com/200 0/09/14/technology/14GEE2.html
- Armage Bedar
The STATS Man
You know, I think there is a market out there for a news site which presents all news for the day in Haiku!
Just wondering: I have an IBM Workpad c3 [it's a rebranded Palm V, basically.] IBM previously provided their own update to Palm OS 3.3, even though according to Palm's site, the ordinary one should work.
What's the change that IBM would release their own Palm OS 3.5 upgrade and not charge for it? (and would it work on any non-IBM device, if they did?)
--
Pretend that something especially witty is here. Thanks.
I'm *still* waiting for a fix for the well known last-line-of-a-memo bug.
Thad
Thad
How quickly we forget. . .
Up until the most recent crop of Palm devices, no PalmOS based system had Flash ROM yet you were still able to update the PalmOS. It was merely a patch that was one hard reset away from being wiped from your system, not a permanent update like the Flash ROM upgrades of today.
Free Mac Mini. Yes, I'm
Gorkman
http://www.palmos.com/dev/tech/docs/p almos35/
Some of the more "significant" changes that Palm touts include:
Personally, I don't think that it's worth a $20 upgrade. Not only are the changes minor, but from all indications I've seen, 3.5 is SLOWER.
As a developer for PalmOS, this move by Palm concerns me and brings up a many questions:
Why would Palm alienate their own consumer?
That's certainly what they are doing. They possess control of the PDA industry and are losing market share to Microsoft, Handspring, and others. Charging for upgrades will only aggravate the consumer. Why run this risk of dropping market share at a more rapid rate?
What business model are they following?
Microsoft charges for upgrades, but they don't sell the hardware. Apple is one company that comes to mind who makes the hardware and sells their own operating system, but they certainly don't charge for small revisions.
Are they stomping out competition?
Since Handspring and others have licensed the PalmOS are they going to pass these fees on to Handspring and force the rise in price on these products? Maybe that's how they can cause a shakeout in the PDA market. I think this will be bad for all PalmOS devices.
Are they just milking customers?
I assume that the flashable ROM in a true Palm device costs more, are they going to drop costs on the Palm itself making it more competitive and then recoup the costs of the flashable ROM via software upgrades?
Mostly, I hope Palm has thought this out very well, before blithely setting a new standard and business model. Claiming that the minimal improvements they have made are a major revision and charging for it is a thin excuse. The $20 fee is so minimal that it could be compared to standard shareware, and if that's the model that Palm is trying to emulate, then all upgrades should be free.
Jayson Pifer
Never go to sea with two chronometers; take one or three.
Does it still cost $450 for a Palm VII? Bring that price down to $100 and I'll be happy to purchase your OS upgrade.
I own a Vx that experienced a screen problem a month ago. I sent it back, and the refurbed unit they sent me had Palm OS 3.5.0. So, you're probably going to wonder what's new in this new OS? As far as I can tell, ABSOLUTELY NOTHING. It must be under the hood stuff, but the only thing I found was a new icon for the battery (it's now a 3D graphic, instead of 2D). Is it worth 20 bucks? Hell no.
3com spun off palm as its own company a couple of months ago, they also planed to distribute all the 3com controlled Palm stock to 3com share holders.
Umm yeah, on a 386-16
it works quite well, and makes a great home automation informational panel.
not everything has to run with 4000 gigadroolflops and 9654terabytes of ram.
most of what we have today was designed with 16k of ram and a 4 mhz processor (8 bit BTW!!)
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
1. Obtain the OS 3.5 ROM. I signed the NDA to become a Palm developer, then downloaded it from palmos.com. Try it. It's worth it.
2. Backup your Palm with a HotSync, preferrably after running BackupAll or BackUpBitster to set all your backup bits to "on" and tagging every database to "dirty".
3. Use the OS Upgrade Utility tool to update to the new OS.
4. HotSync to restore your old databases.
It's simple, it takes less than an hour, and it's totally free and legal, as long as you legally own the ROM.
Open source PalmOS and let us fix all the bugs and problems. They can still sell the hardware, and we can upgrade the OS.
then it comes to be that the soothing light at the end of your tunnel is just a freight train coming your way
BTW you only pay $40 for a Linux distro if you want the pretty box, manual, t-shirt etc etc. Save some cash and try reading the INSTALL and README files before fdisk-ing the crap out of your old OS.
mv
A new palm os,
3com charges twenty bucks,
Bad publicity.