Slashdot Mirror
Inside the CueCat Hardware
HaveBlue writes "Apparently not content to simply go after those writing software for the CueCat, Digital Convergence is now giving the evil eye to hardware hackers. I just got a letter via FedEx this morning almost exactly like the one sent to Michael Rothwell and other developers. DC just doesn't seem to understand that they can't control hardware that's given away for free..." The second link is an extremely detailed discussion of the internals of the CueCat. Mirror it while you can.
--
where did that extrodinarily numbnuts quote in your sig come from
It is pretty old... way back when the RIO and mpMan came out... C|Net had a review on them. And that was the quote... "no matter how hard we shook them, they didn't skip." So I emailed him asking if he ACTUALLY shook it or if he just said that to prove a point. He told me that he had to shake it to make sure it wouldn't skip. I couldn't stop laughing.
---
Moss-Magnuson act allows aftermarket companies to make parts. Actually, what it does is say that your warranty on your GM/Ford/et al. is not void by using aftermarket parts.
Now if only I could get an aftermarket (read: CHEAP) oil filter for an '81 Honda Gold Wing...
Jesus was all right but his disciples were thick and ordinary. -John Lennon
The freemasons figured out the solution to
the scientology lawyer problem a long time
ago. When there secret stuff leaks out, they
have an ages old policy.
"Never Explain. Never Complain."
--chuck
Which violation are you referring to? My misspelling of contend as 'content', not capitalizing 'a' at the beginning of a sentence, or "similar tasks as those" versus "similar tasks to those"?
If he doesn't answer my email because of a grammatical error, that's fine with me. By sending the email I have one more piece of legal defense if they should try to stop me.
Kevin Fox
Kevin Fox
I can't seem to find anything that relates to hooking up a CueCat to a non-ps2 hookup. It seems given the simplicity of the interface one could make a doohickey (technical term) that would allow me to use my CueCat on a nonlegacy system (no PS2) (Okay, it's a PowerBook, but hey, I like to be cutting edge).
By the way, that's "symbolized bar code, quick I.D."...
In Code39, or Bar128 : FUCUECAT.
This just in! God claims that life was just 'on loan' to citizens of the universe. A "Home Life Kit" is now available to use the advanced features of life. They "will not have several billion years of work destroyed by hackers, nerds, and whizz kids like each of you!"
iMox
I still keep hoping to get a free one in the mail. I commute every day with a Postal Inspector, and I'd LOVE to sic him on DC
-- 73 de KG2V For the Children - RKBA! "You are what you do when it counts" - the Masso
Hey Sig,
No matter how funny you and enoch_root thought this post was, it really falls flat at the end despite the profanity and poor use of the word 'sods'. So please ask enoch_root to kindly stop modding you as Score:5 Funny.
They call me the working man. I guess that's what I am.
Wow, you're still alive...
:)
Fancy meeting you here.
Geoff
Is DC still releasing these, or have they introduced all that they're going to? I could actually go down to Radio Shack, but I felt I should give some /.'ers a chance to earn some karma! :)
Last night I shot an elephant in my pajamas. How he got in my pajamas I'll never know.
All of the UPC barcodes have to be unique, don't they? It would sort of defeat their function if a package of chewing gum and a gallon of barn paint had the same barcode. My question is, how are they registered/assigned/whatever? With regard to the earlier discussion about DC going after that bloke for setting up a database of UPC barcodes and so on, I'm wondering how/where the "legitimate users" of the bar codes get their information? Does one of the stock boys at the grocery store have to scan and then register each new brand of peanut butter when it arrives at the store? Surely there is a central database and registration for this stuff....
If you're a zombie and you know it, bite your friend!
Grrrr, that is obnoxious. It's a little more sensical to be overly sensitive when protecting easily lost trademarks, but it is outrageous that they would come after you specifically. I think what we need is distributed protesting. You may not live anywhere near Trek, and I may not live anywhere near ::/Digital\::/Convergence\::, but maybe someone else does. Think how embarrassing it would be to invite the local media to a demonstration outside DC's headquarters. Maybe you could feature someone writing the decoder from memory, and make them look like an idiot on the evening news. And of course it goes without saying that any physical addresses found in spam would be submitted for immediate firebombing.
Del
Let's see a copy of that letter, eh? The only links in that post were to other, "similar" letters. If they really are sending letters to people for dinking around with their own hardware, that's a new level of ridiculous. But I'd like to see confirmation of that before I fly off the handle.
I thought the whole thing was pretty damn funny.
And besides, who are you to judge what obviously 3 (at min, 5-3=2(sig's default post)) other people deemed worthy and funny.
You must be God!
Please dont smite me oh Lord! I was wrong to question your powerful judgement.
Maybe you should realize that other people have different senses of humor, and you are not the judge. So, if you are going to request him to not get modded, I'll request for you never to post on slashdot again. In fact, please, never use a computer again. Better yet, the only form of communication you can do is smoke signals. Not even talking.
I think that's reasonable?
Dacels Jewelers can't be trusted.
I wish I could.. but they never sent me one, so I can't complain yet. :/
--
These IP lawyers at Kenyon & Kenyon, with offices worldwide, are probably pretty smart dudes. They probably have some idea that it could be postulated that they are threatening people without any good reason.
Can't they be sued for harassment, or wrongful prosecution if they ever did take action on this? What prevents a lawyer from being a hired gun to harass people? - it seems these days that your average slashdot user is running into more and more of these guys/gals.
Can someone make a CueCat icon? I think it deserves its own topic heading now. That way, people can filter it out on their Slashdot prefs, and everyone's happy.
geez, I saw this story the moment it was posted, and his site is already slashdotted. I'm trying to mirror it, without success as of yet. Perhaps someone could email me a big, fat tarball of it?
___________________________
Napster-to-go says "Fill and refill your compatible MP3 player", which is a lie. It's not MP3. It's WMA with DRM.
You've got that right.
anyone remember that suck article from back then claiming geeks don't live in the real world and are forever destined to be defeated by lawyers? When the hell do we get a slashback that tells us the legal situation of everyone involved? (as in, actual legal findings in court, not hemos/tacos expert legal advice)
--
Peace,
Lord Omlette
ICQ# 77863057
[o]_O
Tnx fur yur encuraging post ubour proper spellin. Since i read it, i have sseen the poorness of ma ways. i know carri a dickonary with me whereever i go. now i finally won my skool spellin bee, which i wuz disqualified fur 10 times in a roww. thanx so much for helpin. i lerned that "cue" and "que" are called homonyms and that even doe they suond the same, they are aktully different. I now post on slashdot without gettin shit from assholes who tink they better than me cuz i cunt spell.
Version 1 in FORTRAN wasn't quite working out.......
Dirty Pirate Hooker
I know that this is slightly off topic, but has anybody else seen the infomercial on the CueCat? It was on the sci-fi channel late at night.
Basically DC in it is showing that a regular user can not go anywhere on the web without one. They try to indicate that a regular user can not get any information on the web because there is too much of it for them to handle. They make it sound like a revolution of technology.
My favorite is when they say on it that they will include for no extra charge the connection to the TV.
I think they are still required to keep 1 package of 10K ohm resisters...'just in case'...
(Stolen sig) Remember: it's a "Microsoft virus", not an "email virus", a "Microsoft worm", not a "computer worm
"DC just doesn't seem to understand that they can't control hardware that's given away for free..."
Apparently they do understand.
Today, I got this response from Charles Richardson of DC.
Dear Wallace,
The Cat is yours to do with as you please. I would suggest that you give it
to a friend if you do not want this for yourself. I'm sorry but we have no
way for you to conveniently return this to us.
At 06:00 PM 9/28/00, you wrote:
>Submitted: 09/28/00 at 06:00 pm:
>====================
>Name: Wallace Lee
>Regarding: tech
>Email: koala@koalaweb.net
>Heard from: magazine
>Which one:
>Comments: Hello,
>I recently received a ":Cue:Cat" device with a magazine subscription.
>I do not agree with your EULA, and I would like to return it to your
>company. Please provide me with shipping instructions, and a prepaid
>shipping container or label. If you can supply me with such an item,
>please e-mail me koala@koalaweb.net. Otherwise, I will destroy the
>:Cue:Cat device or play around with it as I am considering it an
>unsolicited gift.
>
>Thank you,
>WL
>====================
>Browser & Operating System: Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 5.5; Windows 98)
>Remote Host: adsl-63-198-207-97.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net (63.198.207.97)
>
>eMphormed(tm) email system v2.0.3 by eMphasys technologies, inc.
> Copyright 1998-2000, All Rights Reserved. For authorized use only.
> http://www.emphasys.net
Wallace J. Lee
In 20/20 hindsite, I think they should have built the thing only supporting their slanted code. Then it would only have been useful only for it's intended purpose. Then only those who want to get into the user tracking game are free to participate and the rest of us that would really like to index the cd's etc. would get a real scanner. Only book and CD sellers paying DC would then print a slanted bar code on their products. Nobody would have an interest in hijacking it.
The truth shall set you free!
"QueCat will be the biggest thing since the mouse." (actual quote)
-CueCat CEO guy.
Mouse - Device that let users manipulate their computer using a graphic user interface, thus omitting the need to type confusing text commands, making the computer a publicly viable resource, changing the world as we know it.
CueCat - Cheap, plastic barcode scanner giving away at now charge, which let's users manipulate their web browser by ommiting the need to type confusing commercial web addresses such as "ford.com" or "disney.com" or the very confusing "go.com" by scanning a barcode on a magizine. Making the computer a viable technological embarressment, changing the world as we know it, and also increasing the number of stolen magazines from doctor's offices.
Conclusion:
Obviously, the CueCat will dominate, being built into the mouse itself. Paraciticly it will slowly take over the mouse and there will be no mouse, instead the user will have to navagate their computer using barcodes from magazines and user manuals.
Say "hello" to CueCat - the future.
wouldn't forcing them to stop telling us to "stop it" be violating *thier* right to free speech? "I disagree with what you say, but I will fight with my life for your right to say it"
Shoot, all you'd have to do is get bar codes from panty hose, barb wire, "C" batteries and tabasco sauce, glue them to the edge of a dinner plate, put the plate on a turn-table and set the CueCat up next to it so it can read the labels as they go by. I can see it now: "Damn, those 27-35 year old engineers are sure buying a lot of panty-hose, barb wire, batteries and hot sauce! Get those advertisers on the phone!"
jeez. come on. this is getting scary
I cannot figure out what I would do with one of these things. The only thing it seems like it would be of any use for, at least at the moment, is driving my browser over to some internet site coated in SPAM. No thanks, I'll just type the address in myself for now.
Russian Russian Russian RussianDollSig DollSig DollSig DollSig
Well, nothing is stopping D:C from sending these letters out, some people just need to get a backbone.
ReadThe ReflectionEngine, a cyberpunk style n
The guy's been around the block. Several times. He knows what's what in intellectual property law. In particular, he should know better than to send cease and desist letters without being specific about just what the infringement is. Doing that pretty much defeats one of the two purposes of sending such a letter: showing the court that you gave the defendant a chance to mend his ways before suing him. That makes winning a case in court quite a bit more difficult.
Rosini, presumably, knows this. That means that he's hiding something: either he's got some new and novel legal theory that he's just waiting to spring on some poor slob who'll be the defendant in a case lawyers will cite for the next 50 years, or else he has no case and is just rattling sabers.
I've set up a mirror of HaveBlue's page at http://www.i-foo.com/cuecat. I await my very own FedEx delivery with bated breath.
--
Disinfect the GNU General Public Virus!
Silly buggers. If they hadn't posted cease-and-desists, then this story probably wouldn't have made it to /., and I wouldn't have just spent five minutes archiving safely away all the CueCat hacking pages and code archives.
Didn't anyone learn ANYTHING from DeCSS?
> They will be more profitable than most dot.com's
My kid's paper route is more profitable than most dot-coms.
See sig for location. And please, help yourself....
mas cerveza, por favor politically incorrect stu
your alergic to white plastic ehh? are you also alergic to the little bit of solder that runs from the board to the little chip with the serialnumber?
Now I'll be able to turn off that useless red light thing....
The anti-salmon
...I unscrewed my CueCat a while ago just to see what was in it: One Circuit board with a connector for the "tail". There was also a plastic piece that apparently served no purpose other than to help hold the light steady. Then when I snapped it back together, the little lense that focuses the light onto the sensor came out. So, it's basicly 3 pieces inside -- PC board, plastic retainer, and lens. The sensor is held to the PC board with a strip of copper tape. I did not remove the sensor or the copper tape, because I wanted it to remain intact.
As far as hacking stuff off the PC board goes, it's way beyond me, since there are a lot of tiny surface mount components, and I haven't dabbled with a soldering iron in years.
The lens assembly was intriguing. It got me thinking that perhaps you could turn this thing into a scanner that could scan more than barcodes. Maybe it could even scan text. Maybe somebody else can provide some insight as to whether or not retrofitting a bar code scanner to scan in 2-dimensions is practical or not.
For all intensive purposes, "whom" is no longer a word. That begs the question, "who cares"?
So when are we going to see the DC logo with a dunce cap as a slashdot topic image? I am really looking forward to the next story. Maybe DC will get a clue and sue the lawyers they hired that are sending these wonderful letters and spending all there money. Ah... only in America.
Why?
First, they changed the EULA when this stuff started happening. People were getting CueCats, and tinkering with them, and posting their findings. DC went apeshit, and modified their EULA to say "Well, we really didn't give it to you. It's on LOAN to you, and we can take it back whenever we please."
That doesn't work either. I dare them to try to "recall" my scanner. I have a legitimate receipt of purchase from Radio Shack that clearly lists the CueCat Scanner, as well as a barcoded catalog. Everyone should have gotten one of these receipts. The purchase price is $0.00, but so what? It's still a legal purchase, and I have my receipt to prove it. So if DC claims that these scanners are on LOAN, that would mean that Radio Shack is dealing in stolen merchandise.
Sounds like DC should be butting heads with Radio Shack's lawyers, and not the end users.
-- Give him Head? Be a Beacon?
-- Give him Head? Be a Beacon? :P)
(If you can't figure out how to E-Mail me, Don't.
"New York, Sept. 28, 2000
Digital Convergence, a firm specializing in the manufacture and distribution of 'barcode' scanners called the "Cue Cat", has sent out cease and decist letters to the manufacturers of convinience and grocery store equipment. A 'barcode' is a series of parallel lines of various thickness that Digital Convergence has developed for the use of uniquely identifying an item.
"We have spent five years coming up with the idea of letting people identify an item by a 'bar code' printed on it", said the company's Vice President of Technology, "And now, these costly years of research are in danger of being wasted because of all these companies trying to profit from our great idea"
The official further noted that by allowing the scanning of these 'barcodes' by third party hardware, the manufacturers of these machines are effectively undermining Digital Convergence's revenue stream, and "stealing away [our] market share".
No comment could be obtained from the companies that received the Cease and Desist letters, and no request for an interview was answered by press time."
Ñ'
I don't have to take apart a cat to see what it does on the inside. It can read a UPC and an ISBN and tell the difference..(the list of decoded barcodes is extensive) I have seen simple readers and simple software drivers for undecoded wands (Photodiode video out fed to DTR on RS-232) that can only read UPC or only read 3 of 9. I don't care what the code is. It works. I suspect they bought the code from sombody like Symbol and added their output hash. They could have saved themselves some IP issues if the Cat only scanned Cues and no other barcodes. People would not be tempted to use it on CD's, Books etc if it couldn't read those codes.
The truth shall set you free!
Well, I've had this site lying around for a few months doing nothing so it's about time it was put to good use. The mirror is on dirtywhitekitty.com/dirtycat/. This is the hardware site that was originally located here.
Enjoy!
howdy is any one able to send me a unwanted cuecat to me in australia? ild be able to return the favour in some way im sure. If any one is able to do this please email me at either
grunef@liquidchicken.org or
fatso@fatsothefatarsedwombat.com
thanks a heap
www.grunef.com slashspam(an A with a squiggle around it) willcowan.com
I asked one of my brothers if they had cuecat
scanners in the great white north and he said
that he checked at the local Radio Shack in
London (Ontario, Canada) and was told that
they are supposed to get them in October and
will charge $20 Can. I assumed that the clerk was
another one of those morons but then who knows,
stores in Ontario are well known for their high
prices.
heehe your first letter from a lawyer is always a defining moment. I got mine a few months ago after a webpage of mine about a local newsreader made front page news. Ive still got the newspaper artical framed in the living room. I was very impressed about that effort (c: to check it out visit www.stevetitmus.com
www.grunef.com slashspam(an A with a squiggle around it) willcowan.com
Of course its fake, it was a JOKE! If I really wanted to impersonate DC I would have not used my regular Slashdot account. But apparently it looked good enough to trick some people into checking it out ;^)
The only things that belong to the brits is that
cesspool of an Island and the mad cows that
they raises for the meat and the sheeps that
they raise for entertainment.
Has anyone thought about kids under 18? Minors cannot be legaly bound by a contract. So, here's a thought. I can see it now: instead of kids trying to get people to buy them cigarettes/alcohol, people will be trying to get kids to get them CueCats. Since the kids aren't bound by the license agreement, the CueCats can be considered their property, leaving them free to dispose of it as they choose. Maybe they won't give people anything but the device itself. That way, no one has to see the messy EULA.
Yep! You attacked some girl in a pajama's party
and ended up with a baseball bat in between
the legs. I wouldn't call that sleeping with
half the girls but more like sleep not far from
the girls.
You mean "muzzled" for daring to criticize their highly suspect business practices.
Thanks for reminding me of that. Maybe I can take advantage of the large donations I give my congressbeing to get the CueCat info put in the Congressional Record. May as well add DeCSS while I'm about it ... :-)
If somebody stole your sig, you might want to talk to CmdrTaco and the guys. Maybe slashdot's little haxx0r's took off with it. {} and what's-his-face seem like amiable chums, they'll probably be willing to tell you what they did with your sig and then return it, 100% intact.
> Can someone make a CueCat icon?
Not without being sued by DC for violating their trademark...
-- Don't Tase me, bro!
I wonder if they have any procedures in place to retrieve loaned clue:cat's. Sounds like a convenient fiction to me.
-- Chapman's Observation #1: Nothing is ever simple
Where's a bowl of hot grits when you want to use something for other than it's intended purpose...
--
Chief Frog Inspector
A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
Have a take, don't suck, or don't talk to me.
Just a friendly tip!
Yes, but a lot of us recieved ours through the US mail, unsolicited. The Postal Code is pretty specific: They cannot dictate terms, nor charge money, nor expect it back. Many of those that snagged it from RS never got to read the license, because DC decided to put it in a Windows click-thru. If they do not provide me with a copy of the license, I am not bound to it. Their oversight, not mine.
Their attempt to enforce said license is, in many cases, criminal harassment, mail fraud, and is most certainly both a criminal and torte offense.
.sig: Now legally binding!
Its more expensive than just stamps silly. They are using fedex "to be absolutely sure" they will get tons of free publicity.
I posted this earlier and it got eaten. Anyway, here are *TWO* ideas for screwing Digital Convergence:
Idea #1: Digital Convergence just announced an IPO. We can do our part on internet investment discussion boards to make sure that their potential investors are well-informed about this company... every day until the IPO!
Be sure to relay only FACTS on internet discussion boards-- that will suffice. Of course, wouldn't it be a shame if frank and extensive discussion of these facts cut a few percent off their $100 million IPO?
Idea #2: Since Digital Convergence plans to build a database of demographic data, how about a little program that pulls random items out of the UBC database, encodes them, and ships them off to the DC servers every couple minutes? This would irreparably corrupt their database, making it worthless-- weeding out fake scans would be essentially impossible. If you're worried about legality, print out 10 pages of barcodes for obscure items you'd never own or desire and scan them again and again whenever you have an idly thinking about something else. That way, you're using their product exactly as intended, yet still corrupting their database. What can they do?
It was Mao, and he said: "Political power grows fromt he barrel of a gun". Almost the same thing. Thank you and goodnight.
"Freedom in cyberspace'd be fine and dandy if we happened to live there."
CueCat is a new little "utility" or should i say toy... that a lot of people like to laugh about and make "anal" jokes about... well really its about DC... but anyways... it's a barcode reader that can read barcode data into your computer... it's free and can be picked up at any Radio Shack ... or so i have been told, just walk in and ask for one.
ciph3r
Web Admin/Master
http://www.penguinized.net
http://www.r337.net
-ballpark
Here are two links.
:) But I'll have it up for a while so you guys can grab it and mirror it. Have fun.
This one takes you to the "Getting Your CueCat Declawed" mirror. This one lets you download the whole thing zipped.
IMPORTANT NOTE: Like an idiot, I'm doing this on my home cable system. If I get slashdotted for more than a few hours, I'm taking it down.
Connah
Connah
"Your mouse has moved. Windows NT must be restarted for this change to take effect."
Regarding the electrical-engineering project, where it says:
Since the shift registers only store the data, a start bit and stop bit have to be separately slipped into the communication stream. The stop bit can be sent by clocking in an extra 0 from the shift register. The start bit will most likely be handle by the PAL and perhaps a one-shot, however, this aspect of the design has not been completed yet.
This can be implemented very easily. You can use the first bit of the data transmitted from the shift register as the start bit simply by insuring that it is a '0'. Then, you have seven bits to encode whatever you want to encode (remembering that it will be shifted by one bit when it is received), and then just let the line remain high (idle) for two bit times after the transmission stops.
These extra bit times can be handled in the same way that the clock signal is divided down between the D flip-flop and the shift-register clock. Obviously, there needs to be a 10+ divider in there somewhere to give enough time to transmit the sample.
www.zpok.demon.co.uk/cuecat/
"None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free." -- Goethe
After reading your post, I figured out the whole damn thing!
1: D:C gives away a free product
2: that free product sends them info about everyone, but they say they won't
use it in certain ways
3: they're trying to sue anyone who messes with their "Intellectual Property"
This all ads up to one thing: their business model is to give away the bar
code scanner, and sue everyone who uses it in any other way than it was
intended! Not only will they be making the lawyers rich, but they'll be
making themselves quite a stack of cash in the meantime!
Guys,
You didnt pay for the hardware. To most consumers they see it as, "Hey, I can just scan this Pepsi bottle and end up on their website. Cool.". Then there are also the CueCat "Cues". DigitalConvergence probably sells those, so they make money. A barcode scanner doesnt just appear for free. It costs them money. You see all sorts of businesses going under because they ran out of money. It is because of people like you that advertisers dont buy adspace from a company WITH A GREAT IDEA and they go under. If DigitalConvergence were to go under, I would blame it solely on the people reverse engineering it. Just because you run Linux doesnt mean your entitled to everything. They chose not to make Linux software because they didnt find it valuable.
This is NOT a flame.
This is not a troll. This is a quest for truth.
From their online form, which gets your name, mailing address, and email: "This information will not be used for any purpose other than to identify you to the recipient and so we may update you with information regarding MP3.com."
Congradulations. By sending email to your congressperson(s) through their system, you're showing them you have a weak heart towards their view. Expect to get their ads and propoganda in the near future.
Overall, it sounds like they're making a "million email suckers" database to me, with the side affect of emailing congresspeople.
How do you know? Has anyone extracted the firmware for analysis? It will be interesting to know the size of the firmware.
If they managed to write a several Kb code for the functionality implemented in other barcode readers by several hundreds of Kb, they do deserve a credit, and it is conceivable that it could have taken some significant number of man-months.
Also AFAIU the copyright law, copying something into one's brain is not a violation, and therefore ripping the firmware, disassembling it and understanding its innards for one's own enjoyment is not.
I know how we could give Cue-Cat a bad name.
Use their software and write a script to continually think it was scanning in (everytime it scans something it reports to their website) a bunch of Sex Toys.
That way when they look at their quarter reports or whatever they will get sued my every mother out-there who let little billy get a Cue-cat.
Just an idea
How about constructing a schematic diagram based on R/E'ing the PC board and it's components, then putting that up on the mirrors as well?
Troll? Perhaps to the humor-impaired moderator...
Does anyone else think that if Digital Submergence would ignore all this activity, there'd be a lot less interest in it? Just the fact that they're blanketing the hacker community with their "cease and desist"s is getting my back up enough to put up a mirror site myself. Their struggles are just attracting more sharks, in my estimation. Anyway, when the CueCat becomes the obvious failure that is its destiny, DC isn't going to have any money left to pay a law firm to harrass a bunch of hobbyists, so this is a short-term problem for the tinkerers, in my opinion.
IANAL, so I would appreciate it if anyone with substantial relevant expertise could tell us:
- Are these actions of Digital Convergence perhaps in violation of the First Amendment?
- If so, is there a possibility of certifying a suit against Digital Convergence as a class action?
- Are there any statutory damages we could expect, or just a "cease and desist"? I know it would be nice to just take a company with a stupid legal-driven business plan and get them to shut up, but driving them out of business for trying to mess with people's free speech rights would be much harder for the rest of the business community to ignore.
Just my ruminations...--
Build a man a fire, and he's warm for a day.
Time is Nature's way of keeping everything from happening at once... the bitch.
To whom it may concern,
Our clients, the slashdot communicty, have recently made it clear to us that your firm has been partcipating in an unjustified harassment campaign against developers of open source CueCat software on behalf of your client, Digital Convergance. Despite repeated requests for clarification from the recipients of your requests, your firm has seen fit to persist with its harassment of developers working on legitimate hardware and software development.
This letter is being provided to inform you that persuant to section 53, paragraph 12 of the State of Ohio Revised code, you are hereby ordered to cease and desist all actions against the forementioned developers until such time as a complete list of specific grievances can be included with your request. Failure to comply will result in the filing of a civil lawsuit against your firm, digital convergance, and its partners.
Thank you,
Scott F. Crosby
Will that do?
-- Minds are like parachutes... they work best when open.
As has been explained multiple times before...
In a contractual transaction, the receiving party has to be given an opportunity to read and understand and agree to a contract (which is what a license agreement is) in order for it to be binding. I've gotten two of these little scanners so far, and neither has come with any kind of license agreement that I could see. There might have been something on the CDs, but I didn't need them, so I pitched them. There certainly wasn't anything on the package telling me that the hardware was being given to me under terms of any kind of contract or license.
Therefore, it appears that there is no contract is in force between Digital Convergence and myself. Any hardware that was given to me freely, with no conditions stated, is mine to do with AS I WILL, provided I don't violate anybody's copyrights or patents. (Copyrights and patents are binding on me no matter if I've signed a contract or not. There is no doubt a copyright on any microcode contained in the processor of the bar code reader, but I'm not attempting to do anything with that code, so I'm OK there. There have been no indications of patent violations, so I'll continue to do as I please until notified that I'm violating a patent. Note that this is different from a trade secret, which requires a contract between the secret owner and other parties. Without a signed contract, I'm under no obligation to keep private any trade secrets that may belong to Digital Convergence.)
I also understand that there might be something on a web site somewhere that talks about restricting what I can do with something that was given to me freely. Since I have not had the opportunity or desire or obligation to go to the web site, any words there are hearsay as far as I'm concerned, which also means they have no legal affect on me. It's also hard to see how terms could be imposed ex post facto, and I believe a court would agree.
So. License? What license?
obDisclaimer: I am not a lawyer.
...phil
...phil
"For a list of the ways which technology has failed to improve our quality of life, press 3."
I remember a story from a few years ago, possibly apocryphal. There was a bungee tower operator, and he went to the top of his tower to make a test jump. Apparently he first checked to make sure that the cord was securely fastened to the top of the tower, and did a back-dive off the tower.
... presumably the point that he realized his error.
Unfortunately, he had neglected to attach the other end of the bungee cord to his legs.
He apparently started screaming about halfway down
Evolution in action.
Here we have the corporate equivalent. In order for DC's business model to work, they needed to ensure that no one else could write software to use their hardware. Their entire business model is based on funnelling all cuecat scans through their web site. If you can use a cuecat without going through their web site, then their business model is destroyed.
Unfortunately, they failed to do that. They used a primitive algorithm, and they made the slightly scrambled string print out in a DOS window, making it extra simple to figure out. They have NO patents that cover use of the hardware, and all of their copyrights only apply to their software, which you don't need to install to use the cuecat. Their "trade secret" was easily reverse-engineered, which is completely legal.
The reason that their vague lawyer-letters don't actually specify any specific intellectual property violation, and the reason why people are receiving vague letters instead of cease and desist letters is quite simple.
They forgot to attach the bungee cord to their legs.
Those letters are the screaming.
Evolution in action.
hi,
/.ed, there's a mirror up (only accessible
for people who have found the original site
is
in AU/NZ, sorry) at
http://mirror.aarnet.edu.au/pub/cuecat/
cheers,
-jason
The first time I read your sig file it took me :)
4hrs to clean all the cheeto bits off of my
keyboard and monitor... Heheheheh...
lmao at a truly origional sig
Many thanx.
Friends don't let friends buy Compaq's. (Dell/Gateway... same same) You want a good computer? Build it yourself.
send email to cyberwinds@hotmail.com please thanks
Together, we are strong; Apart, we are stronger.
It seems to me the author has been threatened that he will be sued for IP violations, and that penalties will accrue the longer he leaves the material up.
He then asked for clarification; that is, what exactly is illegal on the site and what laws were being violated.
K & K did not provide the information.
Therefore, it seems to me that any accrual of financial penalties has now become their burden, for failing to provide the information necessary for the flyingbuttmonkey to determine how best to serve their viewing public.
Anyway, IANAL. Everyone compares computer hardware to cars, and the "welded hood" analogy. It seems to fall apart when you get into these "give away the razor, and make you're money selling blades".
Have any aftermarket car companies been sued for making GM/FORD/HONDA/TOYO replacement parts? Shocks, Tires, Wheels, pistons, etc? What laws let someone take their car apart and posting dimensions of the piston, for example?
Also, Steve Ciarcia (former Byte Magazine/Circuit Cellar guru) ran a lengthy series on the design and programming of barcode readers.
Sheesh, only a small percentage of people getting this thing are going to hack it, anyway. All Digital Divergence is doing is screwing their image with the computing elite. Dumb, Dumb, Dumb.
Treatment, not tyranny. End the drug war and free our American POWs.
See my user info for links.
(copied directly from the US Postal service publication 201, Consumer's Guide to Postal Services & Products, available from the USPS at http://www.usps.com)
Unsolicited Merchandise
Federal law prohibits the shipment of
unordered merchandise. Such a practice
may constitute an unfair trade practice.
Merchandise mailed in violation of United
States Code may be treated as a gift by the
recipient without any obligation to the
sender. The laws governing this practice are
enforced by the Federal Trade Commission.
If you believe that you have received unor-dered
merchandise in violation of federal
law, contact the Commission's Bureau of
Consumer Protection at:
BUREAU OF CONSUMER PROTECTION
FEDERAL TRADE COMMISSION
WASHINGTON DC 20580-0001
(emphasis added was mine. Digital Convergence has no case)
Someone could sue DC to get a declaratory judgment that it is okay to reverse engineer and write software for the CueCat. The complaint would look something like this:
1. The CueCat is a bar code reader (explain it).
2. I would like to reverse engineer the CueCat and write software to intercept the data (explain how).
3. DC is sending out vague cease and desist letters (attach an example).
4. On information and belief, DC has no patent on the CueCat.
Then move for summary judgment asking the judge to rule that there are no patent or copyright rights in the CueCat and that you can reverse engineer it. The plaintiff wins (without having exposed himself to risk). Now, everyone can point DC to a legal decision.
One could make the argument that the follow-up revenus from selling database placement (and subsequent referrals) is an interesting business model, but I think it's been well demonstrated here (and elsewhere) that DC's implementation of this model is seriously flawed.
At this point, DC is fighting like mad to prevent other companies from launching databases that can leverage DC's $multimillion outlay to give away all these scanners. Some "marketing geniuses."
(maybe your comments were referring to the genius of putting their private database of user/scan history - their bread and butter - on a public network in an unprotected directory!)
Has anyone here even cracked open one of those things? Those things really are pieces of sh*t! The encryption is weak, pretty much alpha-numeric, the scanner itself hardly ever scans, and about the only thing you can really do with it is take out a few chips and turn it into a regular scanner like the one your school library uses (which, BTW, is what the librarians at my school would like me to do now that they know this). I really don't see what the big deal with all of this sh*t I'm seeing posted up every other day. G*d (asterisk added because I'm Jewish and it's rosh hashana), this is worse than MPAA/RIAA articles every other hour (when I hate what both organizations pump out!)
The Original Celebrated Curiously Strong GHOST (mentha lemures)
I've created a quick and dirty mirror of the second link at: http://www.gnusto.org/cat/ for all those tired of waiting for the page to load.
-- Maybe all one can do is hope to end up with the right regrets. - Arthur Miller
I guess they don't have a clue because if they did...it'd be called a Clue::Cat and not a Cue::Cat.....
---
And what exactly does the license agreement have to do with anything? There is no evidence that any of the people getting the letters have installed or are using the software. Hence, the license agreement has no relevance whatsoever. Many of the cuecats were sent out as gifts via the post office. Attempting to attach a license onto these gifts is actually a violation of federal law. In my case, I went to RatShack and asked for one. I was never asked to sign anything, nor asked for my name. The clerk simply handed it to me.
At what point do you think any of us entered into a contract with Digital Convergence? That's what a license agreement is: a contract. Did people enter into a contract simply by removing the package from their mailbox? Did they enter into a contract by opening the package? Did I enter into a contract by asking the RatShack clerk for a free scanner? Did I enter into a contract when he handed me the bag? I was never asked for my name, and certainly never signed anything. None of us have installed or used the software. Why bother? If the license agreement said everybody born in odd years owes Digital Convergence a dollar, would that mean I owe them a dollar? Of course not.
So why exactly are any of us bound by the license agreement on the software? Did I enter into a contract when you read the license agreement? The simple fact of the matter is these lawyers are sending out scary-sounding but completely worthless letters. I don't think they even qualify as a cease and desist letter. There is no IP infringement going on. The lawyers know that. They are just hoping that they can scare everyone with their worthless threats.
These popped up with a trip to Google:
Student's electrial engineering project, includes schematic (scanner + RS232 interface)
And another.
Can't be too hard to do anyway; just need an IR LED, IR phototransistor positioned to pick up the reflections, clean the signal up into digital and stuff it into a computer for processing.
Or the software way, if you've got a decent enough quality webcam, write some image recognition stuff to read the barcode off frame grabs.
An old saying used to be "You couldn't get arrested in a whorehouse with a fistfull of fifties".
The only benefit to this is that it inflates the number of scanners in the hands of the public, which will be an important number for them to wave around when doing their IPO road show.
I think that DC may have hit on something here.
1. Put out a lame device that's easy to take apart.
2. Record all such instances of "violations of IP".
3. Allow the "damages" to accrue.
4. Sue the IP violators for millions.
5. Patent the process and license it to other companies.
They will be more profitable than most dot.com's
Ralph
"Sounds like DC should be butting heads with Radio Shack's lawyers, and not the end users." Exactly my thoughts - was just having a discussion today saying that at Rat Shack, they give you a cat and a catalog. No mention of it being on loan or no mention of being required to do anything with it. My conversation: Me: "I heard you had a promotion where you are giving away scanners?" Shack: "Yes - here they are. They will probably start selling them for $20 after X-mas, but they are free now. Would you like one" Me: "Sure" Shack: "What is your name? What is your mission? What is your favorite color? Who is your physician... ... ... ... ..."
No mention of any licenses or restriction, just "Here's a free scanner, it will probably cost $20 later"
The dumber people think you are, the more surprised they are when you kill them.
no kidding...I'll grant you its a weak joke...the dirty pun being the lowest form of humor, but jeez...
You can't destroy the Earth, that's where I keep all my stuff!
Since the letters they are sending have no legal weight, do the same to them. A C&D is no more than a way of showing that you are made aware of the company's desires.
Perhaps its time to call in a favor from my laywer buddies. DC's response to my frivilous cease and desist letter will cost a few hundred dollars in legal fees.
Perhaps I'll demand that they send no more cue cats to my house since I have severe cat allergies. All medical costs I incur will be forwarded to them as damages due to their unsolicited cat.
-----
nuclear iraq bioweapon encryption cocaine korea terrorist
It's not trivial, but there is enough information out there that a suitably proficient hobbyist could do it. I would if I had time.
:-)
If anyone REALLY wants this done, perhaps you can motivate me. Email me and ask me to do it. Send me money, a used laptop, or some other motivator.
-Adam
My website (electronics, PIC uControllers, etc)
can any hardware engineers out there write up a quick and dirty on how to build your own bar-code scanner? then you could base any of your software engineering on hardware you'd created yourself.
let's see em sue you for that.
p.s. since it's legal to send a cease and desist letter for anything, can we get a slash lawyer to write a cease-and-desist letter to DC that asks them to cease and desist being assholes? Then all of us can mail them a copy...
--
What happens when you outlaw guns
You mentioning RIAA and MPAA made me think that maybe we should have an annual poll rating companies in different categories like:
Christ, they don't get the internet, they don't get public relations, they don't get security, and now I don't get my letter. What kind of sods are running this show?
--
Unfortunately, in this day and age more and more countries are in the goddamn pockets of long-reaching corps. DeCSS was written in Norway, and they still stole the kid's computer for alledgedly violating the DM fucking CA. I cringe for the day that I see coming very soon where democracy and capitalism are thrown away for the "benevolent" corporate dictators.
Marxism is the opiate of dumbasses
Maybe, but you could play one on TV!
I can explanate how to administrate your network. You must configurate and segmentate it, so it can computate.
Several of us at work here decided to write a little VB app that can catalog just about anything using the cue cat. We have not used any of the original code from cuecat, just the un-modified hardware. Are we going to get a rectal examination if we release this as freeware? what have we come to..........
Dirty Pirate Hooker
you agree to the conditions of the license within." I've just never understood that. It has to be BS. I hope DC keeps pushing this; maybe we can get a binding legal decision about such EULAs.
1000 SlashDot sigs
..or are these people doing this just to make a joke of RIAA and MPAA?
Their case against people is so absurd, it almost seems like the whole CueCat thing came about to get the chance to prove in a court that, in the computer industry, IP means a very different thing than it used to.
I mean, even the timing of these guys is perfect to poke fun at the mp3 and DeCSS debate.
#include <stdIANAL.h>
And with that in mind.. would it be worth it to hurry up and push CueCat into a court so a precedent could be set? It'd be amusing to watch these guys lose. Then, turn around and use that against RIAA or MPAA.
What is going to happen if somebody creates a mirror of these sites in a server operating outside the jurorsdiction of a USA court. What are DC supposed to do then? It is not a rocket science this bar code reader. Why making so much noise about this "technology"?! And how they imagine to stop all the web sites that can appear outside USA, if somebody decides to do this? Another question is: What is the harm to their technology if occasionaly I use the their bar code reader .... like a bar code reader?
Maybe someone should send a letter to the Clueless Cats at Digital Devergence stating: By opening this letter Digital Devergence agrees to compensate all receipents of harrassing cease and desist letters in the amount of $100.00. (Maybe someone should patent this 'letter license' :-) The letter should be as legitimate as the ones they've been sending. Perhaps they'll get a clue.
"Open code, in other words, can be a check on state power." -Lawrence Lessig
Yeah... i better take that out as well... =)
---
Wonder if there is any law against creating a clone of the Cue Cat, the case seems small enough that the hardware wouldn't be too hard to duplicate, possibly using larger components.
"Imagination is the only weapon in the war against reality." -Jules de Gautier
Someone should definately send a C&D letter to DC telling them to stop infriginging on your personal rights and postal regulations.
----
ADVENTURERS! - ANTIHERO FOR HIRE - CARDMASTER CONFLICT
Has anybody posted the hardware/software bundles to a newsgroup? Seems like that'd spread the stuff around pretty effectively. I'm not advocating spamming usenet, of course. (Is there an alt.hardware.cuecat yet?)
DC flackey whispering to spokesperson: "Uh, actually, we partnered with Radio Shack. They're supposed to be giving it away."
DC spokesperson: "Retraction (damn PR people can't get anything right!) Instead, we will sue a World Wide Web page known as Slash/DOT or something like that for talking about our IP."
DC flackey, whispering: "Uh, I don't think we can do that."
DC spokesperson whispering back: "So what? This is fantastic publicity! Let's sue everyone! What's your mother's name? We'll sue her!"
________________
________________
Private Essayist
- Go down to Radio Shack,
- Pick up a CueCat and lie about their name and address, and
- Either never use it with the Windoze client, hack the EEPROM before doing anything with it, or both.
All of these people are going to give DC no revenue for their outlay. The publicity alone has given DC a huge hit in their current expenses and future revenue, and frankly they're a bunch of morons to have bet their business on such a lousy business plan.Let me predict the next cycle of the arms race.
- DC produces a new version of the scanner which truly encrypts the scan output, and fails to operate if the EEPROM is disconnected or altered.
- Some embedded hacker (like, maybe, me?) writes some code for a pin-compatible microcontroller to make their new scanner produce the same output (for ISBN, UPC, etc. codes) as the old CueCat... only without the serialization. Said code is distributed for free, or you can buy a pre-programmed microcontroller for a few bucks and an SASE.
Either way, Digital Convergence can kiss its corporate ass goodbye.--
Build a man a fire, and he's warm for a day.
Time is Nature's way of keeping everything from happening at once... the bitch.
Clones blowing up on /.!
Late
--
"You're gonna need a bigger boat." - Chief Brody
Hal Duston
hald@sound.net
Yes, I'm sure their PR people are pissing themselves, especially since many orders of magnitude more people know about their security breach thanks to their being nits to the Slashdot set.
And hoo boy, did they get us good, with all our free barcode readers. My ass is still sore.
My .02,
My .02,
zencode
iactivist.org/jason
We could Mirror the Digital Convergence site on Sealand, and have their links to their Faq pointing to links for Decoder files, and the De-clawing page....
Nobody can touch Sealand... they are practicaly their own little country... The only thing they could do to touch them would be to bomb them...
SpaZ
Stupid can opener! You killed my father and now you've come back for me!
"
Hello,
I'm Ben Blonkey, inventer of the cue cat. I'm sorry, but talking about the cue cat is now illegal. Everyone who replies will now be scouted out by the cue cat mafia and sent a letter from fed-ex.
Thank You,
Cue Cat Inc.
"
http://sites.uol.com.br/haveblue/ If anyone wants me to mirror their cuecat pages drop me a line at cuecat@bol.com.br with the URL of a zip file of the site.
l8r
cabcosta
I mean really what are we going to do, switch to one of the other bar code readers? Of course not, but we've all gone out and got a CueCat!
Whoever put together this plan has got to be sitting in his chair rocking back and forth laughing his butt off at how we fell for it hook, line and sinker! All the while churning out invoices to the CueCat enabled advertisors who signed deals at a rate of .10 per shipped CueCat for the right to use that TMed slanty barcode and logo!
In fact, I wouldn't be surprised to find out Taco was a principle over at DC!
Ah...once again the makers of that lousy little device get some more free press. Judging by the amount of talk they churn up everytime they make a press release or send out a letter, one could imagine that it would make sense to plant a "hacker" or two just to stir up trouble.
GUYS! It's a BARCODE READER! If we really wanted one, how much would it cost to make? Yeah, so maybe we can use it in the future to keep a K-rad list of mp3's for our car mp3 player, or we can check out that price for Mac N' Cheese right there in Aisle 12 using our $500 palm pilot.
"Woah, they want 3 more cents than that otehr store! I can't afford this among all of my PC purchases!"
It's just a lame device. Yes it's free. Yes, it can be hacked. But isn't it about time we stopped caring? This isn't even a court issue...they couldn't even tread water in court claiming that a consumer isn't allowed to modify something they own...
------
Let me give you the lowdown
I would never take apart a device I was given...That's bad. What's wrong with you nasty 'hackers'?!
--K
Ok, I said it. Now where's my $50?
---
Not that I agree with how this works, but if you read the license agreement, it says that the cat is "on loan" and like pretty much all things on loan (leased car, etc..) you cannot modify it. Again, I do not agree, but that is how their license explains this...
The dumber people think you are, the more surprised they are when you kill them.
You can find it at:
webqcat.sourceforge.net
-- 2 + 2 = 5, for very large values of 2
No shit? I always heard 'civilized'. Can't really say I've ever *read* the lyrics tho...
--K
If you're gonna mod it down, 'Troll' or 'Flamebait'. Jeezus, I post a link to friggin goatse and I *still* get a 'redundant'. Jerks.
---
Whoever put together this plan has got to be sitting in his chair rocking back and forth laughing his butt off at how we fell for it hook, line and sinker!
Yes, this is exactly what I said in another post earlier this week.
It would be interesting to use this tactic (also posted earlier this week).
These people are starting to very seriously cheese me off, stunt or no stunt. Judges are making up laws based on this crap.
A truly excellent pizza parlor is a delight unto the heavens. Treasure the sauce and the toppings!
-----
Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2000 17:02:11 -0700 (PDT)
From: Kevin Fox
To: jrosini@kenyon.com
Subject: Cuecat violations
Dear Mr. Rosini,
As the owner of a Cuecat scanner and someone who knows a fair amount about
intellectual property law, I would like to know Kenyon & Kenyon's position
regarding what you term infringing use of Cuecat scanners.
Which intellectual property laws specifically do you content that users
are infringing upon? are users infringing on trade secrecy, patent,
trademark, or copyright violations?
Speaking as someone who is planning on performing similar tasks as those
you found infringing when enacted by 'flyingbuttmonkeys.com' I would like
to know cuecat's specific legal position on this matter.
Thank you for your attention in this matter. I eagerly await your reply.
Sincerely,
Kevin Fox
Fury.com
-------
If I get a reply, I'll post it here.
Kevin Fox
Kevin Fox
Since RadioShack is giving them away for free. Why not just go pick up one per day from all surrounding stores. You can just give false name and stuff if you want, but this is one easy way to screw up their business model. All their investor will see they gave away 100 thousands of CueCats, but where are all the demographic info from all those alledge users... LOL And since the CueCat comes in a plastic baggie, why not toss out the CD ROM and pamplet that came with it, since the EULA is for the Software, if we don't use the software, we're not breaking any EULA rules. "And what EULA Agreement and pamplet are you talking about, we only received a CueCat thing in a ripped plastic baggies." :)
I've setup a lightning fast mirror @ the following URL: http://EKrout.Resnet.Bucknell.edu/i nde x.html. Enjoy!
______________________________
Eric Krout
If you celebrate Xmas, befriend me (538
Well, it seems that some people will never learn one of the most basic rules of the net: more you fight, more mirrors will pop up. $cientology was the first organisation to have this experience, I guess their "secrets" documents are the most widely spread religious documents in the net (I guess somebody should submit these cuecat-documents to the Swedish parlament :-)... Anyone who has followed how the community works here should have learned the lesson up till now so it's a bit strange that it still happens.
Anyway, feel free to visit also my mirror, the address is the same as below...
Ville
My DeCSS archive:
Radio Shack used to be the hackers friend. Selling parts for the home designer to use. Giving the Cue-cat away but not allowing people to play with it seems to be against the philosophy I remember of Radio Shack.
Then again aren't most modern Shack store reduced to a single peg board of parts, common user small things like batteries and spare 8V supplies then the computer, toy, and stero section.
I've taunted the RIAA, the MPAA, I've denounced the christian coalition, NOW (national organization of women), and I have yet to receive a single letter of reprisal.
Hmmm. Interesting.
Watch for a page soon that taunts mad pit bulls with RIAA-approved Christian Coalition cease-and-letters to NOW for hacking the CueCat with the help of the MPAA to secretly send information to Digital Convergence about anti-feminist movies from open-source MPEG4-based DVD-ripper programs powered by DeCSS.
That should stir up a nicely amusing unholy mess, not to mention a very confusing one.
A truly excellent pizza parlor is a delight unto the heavens. Treasure the sauce and the toppings!
We took the CueCat and a sampling of posts to the Intellectual Property Section of the Arizona State Bar, and when we read the "retroactive loan" EULA and Slashdot posts, raucous laughter ensued... they especially enjoyed the post on the toothbrush EULA.
After seeing the link about reprogramming the eeprom I started thinking. Why don't we just create a script that randomizes the serial code for your cuecat everytime you use it, filling their database with junk.
Just a thought...
F.O. Dobbs
Portal-Potty.com Founder and Mr. Brown drinker
I knew this was coming... I'm beyond glad I printed the page out a few days ago. I was really surprised they hadn't gotten a letter yet.
I think DC can make an argument that the software violates their IP (whatever that is, and however weak their argument is... i think they can make one). Now... I don't see anythign wrong with the hardware side of it.
I got my Cue:;'#$.,==+Cat before they changed their EULA, and since RS didn't get my name and address I feel I have no obligation to any changes they make. So, therefore...I can do with this little piece of hardware as I please. It just so happens I'm allergic to white plastic...so to use their wonderful product I removed it from its casing.
You know...whatever. If they want to waste their money on Legal crap that no one cares about, let them. Are we REALLY worth it? I mean, seriously. How many people have taken theirs apart? Is it worth the cost of all this trouble and bad publicity on their part?
---
A fun way to economicly damange Digital Convergence is to go to every Radio Shack in town and collect free CueCat's, especially if you are not going to use them.
I certainly don't agree with what DC is doing. I believe since they are giving the hardware away for free and the service (on the customer side) is free then they should not gripe about a few people seeing what makes it all tick.
/..
However, I do believe they have the right to gripe. It is still their "intelectual property" no matter what they charge you for it.
Yes, I believe in intelectual property (for the most part) and I believe in/practice open source. This does not make me a hypocrit(sp?) or flamebait.
Personally I feel what these people that DC is getting so pissed off at aren't doing anything that really makes any difference. No matter what your product is someone is going to take it apart. If DC just waited and kept quiet about it then it would go away, if they continue to make a big deal about it then it will keep getting on
Devil Ducky
Devil Ducky
MY peers would get out of jury duty.