Slashdot Mirror
Nintendo GameCube Preview
ravedaddy writes: "We've all seen the hype over the Sony PS2 and Microsoft X-box but things have been fairly quiet on Nintendo's front. So will Nintendo's GameCube pack a punch powerful enough to pound its competitors in overall sales and immersing game play? We won't know for another six months, but the authors of this preview piece were able to sit down with one of Nintendo's partners, ATI Technologies, to discuss some of the specifications of the GameCube and how its architecture is designed to compete. There is quite a bit of info on the 'flipper' 3D chip from ATI in there."
I'm not sure about that. Technology advances much more quickly now than in The Good Old Days. IMO, the PSX1 has looked pretty lame compared to PC games and others, and needed to be repaced badly. I think the N64 was just mismanaged or mismarketed or both. I agree that it probably never reached it's full potential, but if it hasn't yet, it's missed its window.
I dunno man... those icons make your system attractive to the younger set, but are those the people you want to be your core buyers? The hardcore gamers these days are older than that. Anyway it isn't like PS2 doesn't have some icons of its own... The Tekken series and Final Fantasy among others will rock Nintendo's world, IMHO. Nintentdo's got a less-than-desireable rep at the moment to boot, so I think they'd better have learned to like playing second fiddle, 'cuz there ain't no end in sight.
Help me become somebody else... NIN
You can actually get them pretty cheap now. The system and all 10 games for under 150 probably. Thats not TOO bad, as long as you know what your getting and dont expect too much.
Umm, you don't need any AOL clients on Windows PCs to use a Time Warner cable modem
Better get all your surfing in real fast because that will change once AOL buys Time Warner.
Will I retire or break 10K?
Clayfighter (cartoon fighting) was released on at least the SNES and possibly on other consoles as well. There were multi-player puzzle battle games in the arcades long before they were on N64.
How many controllers did Clay Fighter or Super Puzzle Fighter II Turbo[?] support? Quite a bit of innovation was required to make the largely two-player genres work well for four players.
Will I retire or break 10K?
The "Flipper" 3D chip was developed by ArtX, not ATi.
Also, in reading some comments about PowerPC chips, i just wanted to note that the Gekko chip isn't a Motorola/Apple PowerPC chip, it's an IBM Power chip.
I'm pretty sure that the failiure to future-proof consoles is a good thing.
Programmers working on PCs tend to think 'oh, that runs a bit slow but it won't get released until processors are twice as fast, so it doesn't matter.' On a console you don't have that option - you have to write more economical code. You end up having products released that the console's creators would not have thought possible when they first put the system together. In the long run, these restricted platforms mean that there have got to be more really good games programmers around. And thats got to be good news for games players everywhere.
you would think that by now all console manufacturers would notice that just about all gamers want BROADBAND and not modems.
At least one manufacturer is thinking that way. The Indrema will ship with a 100 Mbps Ethernet Port as standard equipment.
I miss the old games. With the advent of 3d gaming, we get super-realistic games, but I really miss the simple, FUN, side scrollers such as my personal favoite Super Mario Bros. 2. Chances are, we'll never see a non-3d mario again. And every one remembers Metroid as being a great game -- which it was -- but I can guarantee the next Metroid will be 3d. The only thing that will make it Metroid is the characters -- the gameplay is totally different.
I haven't bought a console since the Genesis / SNES, and I don't plan on it. 3d stuff just isn't that appealing to me (flame away -- I know you'll tell me about all the great games out there).
get nemulator
Oh yeah, can't wait for 3d vollyfire ;)
"Correct-a-mundo!"
Nintendo has a deal with Panasonic to release a version of GameCube that has DVD playback, so if you wnat it, you can always pay the extra money to get it. But it's smart on Nintendo's part to not force it on consumers, but rather give us a choice.
I think it's only a matter of time until Nintendo goes software only. They stand to make mad cash money bling bling if they release a Mario for an already established system. The only halfway decent games for the N64 were all developed by either Nintendo or Rare. You need more third party support then that to win the console wars. Sure a new Metroid will likely be fantastic, but what Nintendo needs is a new great game. I hope there's a ZeldaCube, MarioCube, KirbyCube, etc. but it's time for Nintendo to move beyond their old NES characters. Pokemon, of course is the exception, but I think Nintendo may be banking a little to heavily on the annoying vermin. Obviously Pokemon's target audience is going to grow up some time. The game isn't ageless like Mario. And then where Nintendo be? Well they'll have some of the most talented game developers every and the best video game properties of all time. Why not develop for Sony? They will however likely stay in the handheld market. They seem to have the monopoly there, and with GameBoy Advance looking solid I don't see them losing that anytime soon.
-Jeff
-Jeff
I like to play with Shiny Objects and Yarn.
Of course, the gamecube will be far cheaper than the PS2, and may have larger developer support because it lacks the weird ass dual vector processor design of the PS2. At least here in canada, buying a Gamecube(at a projected release price of, say $300) and a dedicated, quality DVD player would be cheaper than buying a PS2 right now (if there were any to be had).
The whole reason they didn't work with the N64 was mostly because of the lack of a decent storage medium. The N64 carts are tiny and seriously compared to, say, the Playstation's CDs, hence the switch.
It also had something to do with a sort of falling out with Nintendo themselves. I remember reading about the production troubles with the Nintendo/Square team up on Super Mario RPG, and I guess the tension it created, combined with Nintendo's adherence to the cartridge medium, solidified Square's move to the PSX. The fact that Sony shoved money down their pants didn't hurt.
There's been talk of Square developing for the Xbox, so anything is possible. If the system is solid, why wouldn't they want to make games for it? The storage question is practically a non-issue (unless Nintendo still insists on using its crazy licensing and production practices, as the Gamecube does use a proprietary format for the games).
I can see them making Gamecube games. But that's just my take.
J
I for one was really disappointed with the N64. The best console games I have played to date are Zelda on the SNES, the first Zelda, and Metroid on the SNES. Why? These games were not 3D.
Why is it that every new game coming out has to have some sort of funky camera that follows the character around? They are hard to use, they make seeing the character difficult, and for some reason, they always get screwed up in the middle of an action scene. Not to mention the whole 3D world in itself. 3D is great for flight sims and racing games, but if all the new games for the Gamecube are into the latest 3D fad, then I will not be purchasing it. I'd rather have ease of use than these lame-ass 3D views.
-Frijoles-
The Dreamcast's codename was katana. and the Playstation 2 was codenamed uhh Playstation 2. Sony has had plans for a line of Playstations from the beginning. of course the harsh realities of the Video-Game industry forced them to rethink their stragites. I remember the quasi-uproar when it leaked that Sony wanted the PS2 to come out in '98 with the PS3 sometime around now. But I digress.
11 was a racehorse
12 was 12
1111 Race
12112
people said that the console industry couldn't support 3 players when Sony decided to get into the game(of course nintendo brought them into it but :P). and since you say that Sega is still in it then I feel that each of the new consoles have their own advantages. The Dreamcast has been out for a year already, that gives it a bigger playerbase than the other next-gen consoles, which isn't to be overlooked. The Playstation 2 has Sony behind it, which can't be overlooked. The Gamecube has Zelda, Mario, Pokemon, Metriod, and Donkey Kong. Other than Sonic, those are Video Games. Hell I still just tell my parents I'm playing Mario just so they understand what I'm doing. Gamers will flock to those games that they know have always been good (which brings about another point about games in general, but I won't go any farther into that in this post), And Finally, the X-box has both Micro$oft behind it and Direct-X (of course technically the Dreamcast does too but I digress again) That makes it much easier for games to be ported. Of course, in my experience, the best games for either PC or console, are those that are exclusive to it (online Q2 w/Mouse & keyboard vs. mario on my NES Advantage). I think Micro$oft will force their way in, just like Sony did. and remember Competition is a good thing
11 was a racehorse
12 was 12
1111 Race
12112
isnt this the one that uses a power pc processor(i know.. read the article) maybe it will finaly give the powerpc the recognition it deserves
Go head sets.
You are mistaken, both the SNES and the N64 launched with respectively Super Mario World and Super Mario 64, but Zelda games have never been available at launch.
Super Zelda a.k.a. Zelda 3 a.k.a A Link To The Past came out about a year after the launch of the SNES and Zelda 64 a.k.a Zelda 5 a.k.a. The Ocarina Of Time wasn't available until two years after N64's launch.
While it's safe to assume there will be a Super Mario Cubed to accompany the GameCube, I wouldn't expect Zelda Cubed before 2003.
- Also Sprach Doktor Merkwurdigliebe
I for one will love any company that keeps great games like those on dreamcast or playstation coming. Nintendo has crap, all crap--how many games do i still play on n64? 1-perfect dark.
"Chill, Orrin!"---Trent Lott
Is it just me, or are the consoles out now or coming out in the near future ridiculously overpowered?
With the meager game offerings we've seen from PS2 thus far, and some of the other previews, it really seems that these GPU's (3d cards-I believe Nvidia has GPU patented) are far too powerful. It makes sense to me that companies should take a more modular approach, perhaps similar to indrema's upgradeable GPU. Right now all these super-powered graphics cards are doing is raising the price of the console,which doesn't go too well with the consumer.
47.5% Slashdot Pure(52.5% Corrupt)
The Gameboy is the top selling console of all time, thanks to Pokeman.
But what I am worried about is that The Gamecube will be another N64: Incredible hardware used for nothing but taking pictures of chipochumon and playing Mario party.
Don't get me wrong, I love Goldeneye, Turok, and Zelda, but I need more.
Nintendo has made many choices in the past to keep their child audience. They removed the blood from Mortal Kombat. They removed the Nazi's from Wolfenstein 3D and changed the attack dogs to rats.
I am not buying a child's console; even if Metroid is the shit.
I mean, the thing that really matters for new gaming systems are the games. The way to get good games is an easy way to make them. If developpers can't use the full capabilities of the system (Sega Saturn) because of bad planning, the games will suck and/or companies will refuse to make games for them. If Nintendo wants to make money, all they need to do is come out with another Mario, Zelda, or Pokémon game.
Of course one reason to buy a console this time around is the fact Microsoft is trying to buy up a number of game companies. The PC games market could be awfully thin on the ground next holiday season.
Pretty unlikely. While MS could buy out tons of game developers, the publishers are hungry enough for game titles they will start supporting new developers. The vacuum that occurs when a developer leaves the PC game market is filled pretty damned fast - there are too many companies like me who want those positions. Personally, I'd like to see MS buy out some of those developers and make them X-Box only developers - the bigger the vacuum, the better. Plus, well, maybe we can finally get some innovative titles out there, instead of so many "Me Too!" products (unluckly, it's not developer initutive that causes that, rather, it's publisher marketing that forces us to put up with so damned many FPS titles right now - they see it as being where the money is, so it's where they put thier money!)
Davis Ray Sickmon, Jr - looking for something to read? Check out my three free novels at MidnightRyder.org
It cant even play DVDs. Talk about shooting themselves in the foot. How will the average 10 year old convince daddy to fork out 300 quid on a console without the old "but you can watch your DVDs on it" excuse. I think this will really backfire on Nintendo in the long run. And besides, dolphins are a popular icon in japan (the japanese version of Office 2000 here has a dolphin as an office assistant) but they dont really cut the mustard in the west where we need initials to get us going. Unless they remarked it as the ND256+ or something like that no one in the west will want one.
Slashdot: Proof that a million monkeys at a million typewriters can create a masterpiece
A cross-licensing deal together!
I'd imagine Apple PCs would make excellent development platforms, as well as demonstration and testing machines.
I'd think Connectix would love to write an emulator for Apple machines!
I'd hope that Nintendo would gain and profit from selling ever more games! It just stands to see if those DVD-ish discs Nintendo would use are truly DVD compliant and readable by Apple machines!
Geek dating!
GPL Deconstructed
Seth
$5 / month hosted VPS on linux = awesome!
Matsushita has confirmed a DVD version of the gamecube will be released shortly after Nintendo's version.
This article was released yesterday on cube.ign.com.
I'll be waiting for this one for sure!
tsf.
looks like there will be a return of metroid... (the best nes game ever) check out some gif movies here.
-... ---
Let's not forget that Nintendo isn't exactly strapped for cash or expertise. They might be a bit impoverished compared to the entire Sony corperation, but they're by no means poor. Last I heard, they had something like $15 billion in the bank, so they can afford some major marketing and absorb a few hits before they need to really make money back.
Besides, they still have Shigeru Miyamoto and a truckload of mascots. Mario, Zelda and (ugh) Pokemon aren't going to be seen on the PS2 any time soon, and they can all sell machines like crazy.
According to the interviews I've read with some of the Nintendo head honchos, they've learned their lessons from the N64's lack of a decent storage medium and its kiddie focus. The Gamecube should fare well.
J
You left out price. How much is that PC? $2500? How much is Nintendo's Gamecube? No one knows, but it's expected to be under $200... Consoles don't look too bad.
What are you trying to say?
That we should start making our console's LESS powerfull?
That's like saying "Why buy a Porsche when my Geo Metro is fast enough"
Fast enough for what?
If you don't want a faster car then don't buy one, but don't try to take away my ability to do so.
Besides..More power is always welcome.
I think the main complaint about PS2 right now is that it can't even take advantage of all it's power. Right?
And just because the current few games out for it might not be all that great doesn't mean the future games for it won't be.
-----------------------
Jeremy 'PeelBoy' Amberg
Conversely, the two N64 Zelda titles couldn't have been done on PSX. Each platform has its own game style, and there's nothing wrong with that.
Square and Sony have been very good for each other, and I don't see that that partnership disintegrating any time soon. I don't expect to see Final Fantasy XIV released on a Nintendo platform.
All generalizations are false.
--
I like to watch.
Also, Squaresoft is the American subsidiary of Square - there is a distinction you should learn.
final fantasy 7 COULD have been developed on a cart console, and, in fact, was initially.. When development for FF7 started, square was still in bed with Nintendo, and they started writing the game for it back when it was just a glimmer in the gaming industry's eye, as the Ultra 64.. They developed it about 1/3 through the game, IIRC, and were planning to release it using the proposed N64 Bulky Drive (think zip drive for a console (I think it later became known as the 64DD before being dropped)).. But at about that point, square thought it'd be too costly to put it on multiple carts or discs like it would have required on the 64, and turned development towards the PSX..
I've got all that information somewhere in all my old Electronic Gaming Monthly issues, if someone wants a reference I could prolly dig it out..
Justin
"Short, tall, fat, skinny, from the highest king to the lowest man, everyone uses the potty." - Brak
If we are all lucky, maybe ATI will let out some tantalizing details before they are supposed to, Like they did to Apple this summer .
Before everyone gets all teary-eyed about the imminent demise of Nintendo, have a look at some of the other previews, movies, and screenshots. cube.ign.com has a lot of information and links to all I mentioned. The preview linked to in the article is so vague about the Gamecube's capabilities it's almost useless.
They've lost a lot of ground to Sony, and now Sony has launched the PS2 months before Nintendo's next-generation system will be ready.
Do you know what the going rate for a PlayStation 2 console is? USD $5,000. Do you know what the MSRP for the GAMECUBE console is? $200-$250.
Will I retire or break 10K?
Nintendo's using a GD-ROM format, like dreamcast, IIRC.. its only a matter of creating a format on a normal cd that the drive will read, and occasionally scaling down movies/audio to make it fit on the disc.. You think the fact that many games on PS2 are DVD is stopping people from getting them? No, in fact, most the games out for PS2 already are already available for download..
The fact that it uses a proprietary format is just gonna be another obstacle for bored hackers to overcome.. thats whats happened on Dreamcast, thats whats happened on PS2, and thats what will happen with Gamecube.
Justin
"Short, tall, fat, skinny, from the highest king to the lowest man, everyone uses the potty." - Brak
:::I'd count Squaresoft as a loss but their quality has dropped miles from their days with Nintendo. FFVII and VIII were laughable at best.
/., someone mentions rpgs, and someone else says how "FF7 is the greatest rpg ever".. I couldnt bear to play halfway through the first disc.. I got so sick of a buncha pointless fights just to watch a crappy movie.. OTOH, they still do some things right.. Xenogears and Chrono Cross are both incredible games (tho, I always say Chrono Cross would be 5x better on dreamcast, just for jaggedy cleanup), and I've heard FF9 isnt too bad, but 7 and 8 were just lousy..
thank god someone on this board agrees with me.. Everytime theres a video game conversation on
anyway, off my tangent, I think that Nintendo and Sega will both always survive, because there's always at least a market of gamers with a lot of cash to burn, willing to try anything new, and they're both pretty well known for steady innovation..
Justin
"Short, tall, fat, skinny, from the highest king to the lowest man, everyone uses the potty." - Brak
:::History has proven that just because one is the head of an industry doesn't mean that people will buy blindly into it (except maybe in the case of PS2). MSFT might be the new guy, but it certainly knows games (or has paid enough people to know games for them).
Dont you find that statement a little hypocritical? I mean, isnt that exactaly what MSFT is hoping to do with X-Box? Use the fact that its an industry leader already (not in the same market, mind you), hoping people will buy it instead of the PS2 or Gamecube, because of the Microsoft logo?
Personally, I think Gamecube has a better chance, because a lot of video gamers find one or 2 companies, and stick to them like glue.. (Most the anime freaks here in San Antonio hate Sony, but adore Nintendo and Sega..) If nothing else, you have the people who are Nintendo buffs buying it cuz its Nintendo, kids buying it for Pokemon, and old gamers buying it for nostalgia (new metroid game, how is that not a reach for nostalgia sales?).. Microsoft is going to have to prove itself to the gamers that they can handle a console, and make it successful.. Nintendo wont have that obstacle, because people will know that they'll support it for the length of its life..
Justin
"Short, tall, fat, skinny, from the highest king to the lowest man, everyone uses the potty." - Brak
I don't know what your talking about when you say that most people have bought the console they want for christmas allready. Because if your refurning to the PS2 witch I think that you are you have to be insane. This is because NO ONE can get a PS2! were have you been the last 3 months.
;(
Anouther thing that was said before you don't buy a console system to watch dvd. You buy it for the games. What has this world come to when you can over price a product and under sell it have crapy games and people still flock to buy it. PS2 has nothing I would want besides UT and I would rather play that on computer.
One last thing DC is almost as good as PS2 and the go for 200 dollers in canada. And I like it (though I will probly buy the new Gamecube just because I love nintendo)it replaced my 64 verry nicely even thought I cry myself to sleep now that Zelda 2 is comming out
About the dvd fight. buy a new dvd player if you want or watch vhs come on there not that bad. and a dvd player isn't insanely priced that you would have to buy a 500+ system to play them. I mean you have to play the games too thats what there made for!
You act like it's just some software format difference. :P
If you want to explain how you'd get a normal CD into a slot built for a 2.5" disk, let me know.
The same way nintendo has lost to PSX, it will lose, ultimately, to the X-Box. Design problems inherent in the N64 (expensive cartridges) and lack of software titles has plagued the sales of this otherwise amazing console. Ultimately, the pure muscle of MSFT's money and developer relations (the fact that it OWNS bungee, mostly) will out-class the N64 in # of quality software titles. The only thing N64 has going for it software wise is the genius designer Miyamoto (whose work EVERYONE admires). As for other capabilities, X-Box will beat it in specs, too, and the fact that the bungee team probably knows the hardware well enough to release quality games geared towards a more mature (and therefore more likely to spend money on games) crowd (Halo, Myth 3, anyone?). And as well, because of the similarities in PC developement, there will be more developers able to push the limits of the X-Box faster than those who will push the limits of the GameCube. On the whole scale, the GameCube has already lost. History has proven that just because one is the head of an industry doesn't mean that people will buy blindly into it (except maybe in the case of PS2). MSFT might be the new guy, but it certainly knows games (or has paid enough people to know games for them). I still haven't been able to pick out one bad thing about the X-Box, except the fact that it's money in Gates's pocket. We'll see in 2001.
...I am proof that intelligent beings are not always intelligent...
The only problem is that by the time the Gamecube comes out, the PS2 will be cheaper and easily available and right now, Sony has much more 3rd part support then Nintendo. Remember, Square, Konami and company were Nintendo developers and jumped ship to Sony. Nintendo will need to show something much better then Sony is doing to get those developers back. Of course, this is all based on past history and assumption, so it may be completely incorrect when things actually go down.
you would think that by now all console manufacturers would notice that just about all gamers want BROADBAND
And there will be broadband adapters for both the Sony PS2 and GAMECUBE consoles. They're just not ready right now because broadband reaches very few homes in the target markets. Not all gamers can afford to pack up and move to a location where decent non-AOL non-Windows-only-in-TOS DSL/cable service is available.
Why not just add in an ethernet port?
And force players to buy a network hub, four GAMECUBE consoles, four copies of each game, four monitors, and four speaker systems? I'd rather
Will I retire or break 10K?
I kind of view console gaming the same way I view internet appliances now. They are directed more at the less geekier population that doesn't go out and spend $1000 on upgrading their computer every year to the latest processor and video card. There are a lot of these types of people out there.
Think about how many kids < 10 years old there are at any point in time. A lot of these kids won't have a fully tweaked out Athlon box with Geforce Ultra 2, it would be too much money. But, mom and dad might be willing to spring for a $300 console that will last 2 years or so. That's a huge market.
Personally, I'll stick with my PC, but then again, I have the means and the know how to keep it up to date.
Just my $0.02
Execute? [Y/N] _
Remember back when consoles were milked of all their power before abandoning the system.
Fifteen years, and the NES console is still being milked. Download an emulator and head over to NESdev and get some of Chris Covell's NES software, or try my GNOME vs. KDE: Battle of the Desktops for the NES.
Will I retire or break 10K?
The ethernet isn't for local multi-player, its for the cable modem/DSL modem. Most of them connect to the computer via ethernet.
FunOne
FunOne
The ethernet isn't for local multi-player, its for the cable modem
Cable is often limited to 80 kilobits upstream or worse. Besides, what if you live in an area where the city has contracted Time Warner as your local cable monopoly? After the merger, you will have to have an Intel architecture x86 box running a Microsoft brand Windows 98/ME brand operating system and the AOL client to be able to use your cable modem. Unless Nintendo licenses the AOL protocols for the GAMECUBE console, you won't have cable access.
DSL modem
Until the fiber-to-the-curb infrastructure is complete, DSL is available only within 12,000 feet of the central switch. In a large city such as Houston, there are huge gaps in DSL coverage, meaning essentially that a fellow has to pack up and move next to the telco's central switch to get a DSL connection.
Will I retire or break 10K?
If you want 100 clones of mario kart but from nintendo.
Bull schmidt, Nintendo pioneered several genres on N64:
Will I retire or break 10K?
There's no doubt that Nintendo's kept its mouth shut during all the PS2/X-Box/DC hype, seeing as many people haven't even heard the word 'GameCube' before, and still think of the console under its original project code name, 'Dolphin'. But it's all in marketing tactics. If they attempted to release information on their console during the flood and swarms of PS2 hype and publicity (which is still going on), even Nintendo themself would've drowned, and failed to get significant attention. Right now, Nintendo's simply relying on their sole reputation as a console/1st party game developer to attract media and consumer attention. Of course the launch is when you'll be hearing about it, and, well, getting that damned 6-sided thing in your house. Anyway, that's my guess, occasional leakage of certain hardware specs will only be noticed (as well as cared) by Nintendo's desperate, diehard fans that are familiar and interested in the GameCube's architecture. I am just tired of people complaining about the lack of information given by Nintendo, they should really consider the factors first.
The PS2, however, is already overpowering the GameCube's pre-retail conquest, as it can play DVDs, and games from the PSX. The real question is whether the GameCube will win the match against Sony's amazing feature-packed juggernaut console. Nintendo's tactics does have drawbacks, and of course they'll pay for it.
Sony does have a large chance beating GameCube sales and, as far as sheer features go, it definitely seems to be advantageous in sales combat against other consoles. You have to remember, though, that a large amount of people don't even care about the specs and features. You have to please as many people as you can, and Nintendo doesn't seem to be fulfilling that objective, and with this console, I don't think they will.
Jawa
Jawa
http://gryps.paravolve.com/jawa/
Sega and Nintendo have two things that Sony and Microsoft don't have. Icons. Microsoft technically has Icons but they are typically 32x32@8-bit. When I was a kid Mario was the biggest thing since picking your nose. To my younger brother Sonic has more of a pervading presence. The SNES and Genesis popped out more iterations of their mainline characters than crackwhores in the projects. Walkt Disney did the same fucking thing in the fifties, he made a bunch of icons kids wet their pants over with an encircled R on the bottom meaning someone somewhere got a dollar for every penny it costs to make the product. Also, console makers do not sell their fucking hardware at a fucking loss. They don't build these things one at a time, they order tens of thousands of them (in Sony's case a million). The cost of a million of these is much less per console than a small handful of them. Nintendo, Sony, Sega, and Microsoft aren't going to take a loss on their consoles, the profit is almost entirely flat. The consoles are needed in order to sell the real cash cow, the games. Good console games will sell heavily (sometimes 1 per console) which means the licensing fees for those games is stupendous; the console makers shoot their wad of NRE into developing the boxes but then the sales of extremely popular games like Zelda or Gran Tourismo make all of that back and more.
On the technical side, Nintendo has gone back to their unique innards architecture that served them well with the NES and SNES. The N64 was impressive for its time but didn't really stand head and shoulders of the technology for long enough. Up until a year or two ago the PSX still had better graphics than your average PC and it came out before the N64. The Gamecube might get a lukewarm acceptance from the media unlike the PS2 but I think customers will really eat it up. Icons are what sell shit to little kids and parents. Nintendo's got Mario and Donkey Kong and can easily market the shit out of them to prepubescents.
I'm a loner Dottie, a Rebel.
Vintage computer games and RPG books available. Email me if you're interested.
Want another benefit? No "loading..." messages on N64.
I lost me sig.
I think (somewhere) I saw screenshots of a new Metroid game for Gamecube. Could be BS, but it was a cool picture of Samus running down a hallway with a giant flame/explosion coming after her.
Of course, there supposedly was going to be a Metroid for N64.. and there wasn't. Anyone have more information about Metroid on the Cube?
I'd rather get a gamecube. If Nintendo release games based on classics, so be it. At least you can bet that the games are top notch. PS on the other hand, have a focus to quantity, and that just dosen't cut it for me.
N64 wasn't a flop, it was the console of quality.
I lost me sig.
Unless your really good with scissors have fun fitting a CD into a machine that takes SMALLER CD'S!
The surest way to make a monkey of a man is to quote him. --Robert Benchley
The death of console gaming has been proclaimed time and time again. It's not going to happen. You can talk about specs, gf2's, and athlons all you want, but that doesnt matter. Games matter. As long as there are developers who like to work on standardized platforms, console games will continue to sell.
The psx launched in 94. Thats 6 years ago. And just the other day I saw a commercial for a psx game on tv (yes, PSX, not PS2). The reason? Console game quality evolves as developers learn the ins and outs of a system. So, games coming out for a 6 year old machine are way better than the ones that it launched with. Is that true for the PC? Will a machine I bought 6 years ago even play a game released this year? Or do I have to go shell out a couple thousand on a gf2 and athlon?
Now you tell me which is the better gaming investment.
--
python -c "x='python -c %sx=%s; print x%%(chr(34),repr(x),chr(34))%s'; print x%(chr(34),repr(x),chr(34))"
I have to admit, I'm more than a little worried about Nintendo.
I wouldn't be. Nobody would argue that Miyamoto isn't the Carmack of consoles, and they do have arguably two of the biggest games of all time.
I (and millions like me) will buy a Gamecube over a PSX2 for one reason, and one reason only, and that reason is Zelda. The N64 was hardly a flop, either.
Also, I propose that the reason the PS is much bigger than the 64 is not because of the cartridge vs cd issue at all, but rather one of marketing. To joe 6-pack (of pepsi max), owning a nintendo is just something to play 007 on- but a playstation, now that's cool, you can get tony hawk's, and the x games games. Playstation was on telly every 20 minutes, it's in movies, "everybody's got 'em, i need one"...
Given the basicly evil alignment of the Sony corp, and they're microsoft-worthy success due to marketing, I'm rather suprised they're loved by the mob here at slashdot.
Gfunk
--Gfunk
Send lawyers, guns, and money!
There is one thing that might save the Nintendo GameCube: software. Nintendo, bar none, has the best software in the history of gaming. With the Mario, Metroid, Mega Man, and Zelda series, plus classics like Metal Gear and Bionic Commando, they commanded the market of the late 80's and early 90's.
Then SuperNES came out, which included the best Zelda game to date and Final Fantasy 2 and 3 (4 and 6 in Japan) which are, in my opinion, far superior to FF7 and FF8 (still haven't played FF9). Chrono Trigger for SNES is still named as one of the best games ever made - Chrono Cross for Playstation got quickly annoying, mostly due to the fact that it employed too many characters (over 40) and got too complex, like FF8. Playstation may have had the ability to have large games, but that doesn't help when they're not very good.
Now, while N64 was an utter disaster, the good games made for the system were actually great games, such as Ocarina of Time, Majora's Mask, Perfect Dark, Golden Eye, and Mario64. Sure, that's way too few games for a 4 year old system, but really, there are no Playstation games out there that I like better (Metal Gear Solid had a shot, but no game should be so easy as to be beaten in under 8 hours).
So where does that leave GameCube? Well, if Nintendo messes up again, nowhere. But if they continue to make the excellent software they are famous for making (and licensing great games from companies like Rare), then I think it will blow the complicated P2 away. They'll make another Mario, a Metroid, a Zelda, a Perfect Dark, and when they've won the right companies over, who knows, they might get a new contract with Square (though I would stipulate in the contract not too make such heavily complicated games as FF8 and go back to the quality of Chrono Trigger and FF6).
Look at the real-time rendered videos Nintendo released in late August - they look amazing, better than any P2 footage I've seen (but equal w/ X-Box stuff). If Nintendo can harness the full power of GameCube (and it's much easier to do that than on the P2), then, with some good marketing, they can take back the market.
Then again, people do like their fighting games and sport games, and P2 will probably win out there.
Oh, and to those people who say console gaming systems are dying: yes, that may be true, but for now, the best games come out on consoles first (at least solo action and adventure games). Until the PC catches up, I'll play Nintendo.
The only true currency in this bankrupt world is what we share with someone else when we're uncool. -Crowe
console games used to have a 6 year lifespan. That's shrinking to 3 years.
Try 5 years:
The PC cycle is twice as fast anyway, and PCs cost $1000 instead of $250.
The PS2 is quite advanced but hard to code for.
The PSX had a decent libc (C runtime library) when it was first released. Sony PS2 was rushed too fast to get a libc developed.
Since nintendo's PowerPC comes from IBM it probably doesn't have altivec and that leaves it depending on the (for a risc chip) weak FPU powerpc's are known for.
Which is more than overcome by the hardware everything on the chipset. (This is how Sony overcame the lack of an FPU in PSX.) Besides, how do you know that the FPU hasn't been enhanced in PowerPC Gekko (not to be confused with Mozilla Gecko or Geico Direct auto insurance)?
and I don't see how Microsoft (with the best outlook)
Helix Code has a better outlook, and it's called Evolution.
Will I retire or break 10K?
There's only one problem with that. People like myself can't afford to buy a console for one game. Sony has the most third party support of any console system right now. I buy a PS2 and I'll get Metal Gear Solid 2, Final Fantasy X and XI, etc. As of right now Nintendo has themselves and Rare. $200 is too much to play Zelda, again.
I have a dream that these consoles will eventually live up to their qualifications. I know Squaresoft will find some way to use this hardware to its full potential. Wait, Grasshopper, and it will come to pass that a good game will arrive. (Albeit, we might have to wait 5 years or so,because ff10 will probably stink.)
!-- wit --!
Nintendo has had a page dedicated to this sytem for a little while know it has pictures of both the system and the games. This link has THE MOVIES however. http://www.dailyradar.com/features/game_feature_pa ge_1348_1.html
However, they saw my name, and I got a "No gaijins due to NDA!" knockback, even though I'm a Japanese resident and a full employee of the Nintendo partner company.
Arse
Umm, you don't need any AOL clients on Windows PCs to use a Time Warner cable modem. If that was required, I'd still be using a dialup connection. At least in my area, all you need to do is set your computer to use DHCP.
My uploads are also capped at 304kbps, so apparently this 80kbps or worse thing doen't happen in my area.
And PS's popularity proves it. These games are all boring.
I think we're all well aware of the problems with the carts and N's licensing, but there is a benefit.
N forced top quality control, each game had a 3 month test cycle, if a bug was found the game was sent back and had to start the 3 month cycle again.
FunOne
FunOne
Don't forget about metroid, that's why I would buy one.
This Wiki Feeds You TV and Anime - vidwiki.org
Maybe, if the Game Cube is good enough, Squaresoft might produce new Final Fantasy games for it.
Pax Digitalia
I have to admit, I'm more than a little worried about Nintendo.
:)
It will be difficult for them to recover from the mistake of not using CD's in the N64. I just hope they've learned their lessons, and there aren't any more technical 'surprises' in the Game Cube. They've lost a lot of ground to Sony, and now Sony has launched the PS2 months before Nintendo's next-generation system will be ready.
If Nintendo goes down for good, the days of the console price wars are over, and I for one will miss that. Also, I suspect that having two heavyweights keeps game prices down. As much as I love Sony's consoles, I hope the Game Cube to kicks ass and really raise the bar on home entertainment.
Microsoft, though, can go to hell
Please please please mod me up! I'm serious! Pathetic, but serious!
Itty-bitty living space...
Why is it ridiculous? These machines are expected to have a lifespan of 5-8 years... In 3 or 4 years, I'd think the average PC would match their performance, and in only 2 years a top of the line PC would theoretically blow them away...
This is just 'futureproofing' their products.
Geek dating!
GPL Deconstructed
are you kidding?? This is my hobby! I've been trimming down cds, into the shapes of presidents heads, for years! its great fun!
Seriously tho, the last time I read anything about Gamecube, it said that it was using gd-rom format, like dreamcast.. I guess I was wrong =P
Justin
"Short, tall, fat, skinny, from the highest king to the lowest man, everyone uses the potty." - Brak
you would think that by now all console manufacturers would notice that just about all gamers want BROADBAND and not modems. The Playstation2 comes w/USB ports out the ass. Why not just add in an ethernet port? Why include a modem and not ethernet. That is my idea at least.
.02
In the article they mention that they finally went to an optical medium for the data storage. I personally prefered the quick load times on the N64 to the slow constant loading on the PS1. That is just personal opinion though.
Just my worthless
Is this the part where we beat a large inflatable beachball with a broom?
Quote from ???: "There are lies; there are damn lies; and there are benchmarks."
1995: Imminent death of foo predicted
1996: Imminent death of foo predicted
1997: Imminent death of foo predicted
1998: Imminent death of foo predicted
1999: Imminent death of foo predicted
If I had bought 10,000 shares of Foobar, Inc. (the makers of foo back in 1995, I'd be one rich mofo...
(end comment) */ }
(end comment) */ }
[an error occurred while processing this directive]
(that's a joke; this is a shameless attempt to get "Funny" mod points. Non-moderators ignore it). :P
-Legion
Dedicated games machines are not going anywhere, and consoles -- regardless of vintage -- are the best of breed...
PC's are top of the line technologically speaking - a 1.2ghz athlon with a gf2 ultra packs a lot of horsepower combined with a lot of excellent libraries and developer know-how.
:)
The dreamcast uses PowerVR - a tech that was way to shitty for the PC platform - oops.
You don't give the DC enough credit, and you give the PC too much credit.
The *main* advantage to the PC is a better resolution. Sure, a 1.2GHz AMD is really fast, but there's all sorts of overhead that you have to deal with when you program a game on a PC. Moreover, the guys from Bioware came down and paid my University a visit last year (the University of Alberta...they practically only have to walk down the street to give a talk) and they talked about developing MDK2 for the DC. After they figured out the ins and outs (which didn't take them too long) it was outperforming systems with much better specs than the DC could ever hope to post. The DC is *meant* for games. That's it's only purpose in life. Specialization in an area usually comes with performance benefits. That's why it can do so much with so little.
Further, consoles are better suited for some games. Soul Calibre makes sense on a console. It seems out of place on a PC. To this day, the Final Fantasy games are developed for a console, and later ported to the PC, and they don't really port very well.
Lastly, consoles are cheap. The next time you think about how much your 1.2GHz T-bird and Geforce2 cost you, go take a look at Soul Calibre. The game looks so tremendously good on an ordinary TV that it seems ridiculous to me that I use a PC for gaming at all, sometimes.
The X-Box is sound here since it basically is
just a PC with parts removed.
I think the X-box will do well. And M$ is in a market where they can't just push people around. Nintendo won't roll over easily. Neither will Sony. Sega....may have to get some protection.
2 years ago, the licensing fees for Tekken 3 on playstation was *the*largest* single source of income for Sony corportion. A third party wrote the game.
Let me paraphrase this:
A single third party game made more money than any of sony's other products.
This easially makes up for money lost on console production, launches, and failing game companies.
For every game company that fails, there are two people out there that want to start one. Shortage of companies should not be an issue for a long time.
Sig:
Sig:
Barbeque is a noun. Not a verb.
I wish I could afford to prove points like you.
There will never be more memorable consoles than the 8-bit Nintendo and the Atari 2600. Remember back when consoles were milked of all their power before abandoning the system. Gaming is being so commercialized now that none of these new systems will ever get the chance to become memorable before then next newer system comes by.
---
---
I'm just an ordinary man with nothing to lose.
Nintendo, if they only wanted to make money, would have made Pokemon card games for Dreamcast, with online play, or Pokemon racing games, for the PSX...
Me, I can't fathom their strategy. Well, actually, I can guess.
By releasing a atomic box, the GameCube and the GameBoyA, they can lure and entice developers.
"We have a fixed platform. It'll be easy to develop for, without future driver or incompatibility issues."
"We use PPC and ATI. It's as easy as buying a G4^2 box and our development kit."
Still, they should probably have separate software and hardware divisions, for maximum profitability, with reduced or zero licensing costs for internal development.
That way we can get the games we want on the platforms we want... Nintendo could get more money by selling more games... and then they could compete, platform for platform, technologically, with the increased funds.
Though I guess there is still the fear that releasing games on competing hardware is suicidal...
Geek dating!
GPL Deconstructed
Sadly nintendo has had very few good games for the n64. The ps/ps2 has a large number of games in very varried categories. If you want 100 clones of mario kart but from nintendo.
IBM did also add some "Altivec like" instructions to the Gekko. I don't think they're nearly as extensive or versatile as Altivec but they should be perfect for the Dolphin.
Willy
Of course one reason to buy a console this time around is the fact Microsoft is trying to buy up a number of game companies. The PC games market could be awfully thin on the ground next holiday season.
-- Hob - Java Spectrum Emulator
Nintendo are Power PC based with a ATI graphics card. Apple are Power PC based with an ATI graphics card? Both have DVDs/CDs now right?
So the difference between the two can't be sooo great?
Both could do with lift up. I reckon they should work together, Nintendo making sure their games port to Apple easily and Apple doing the programming leg work required to run them.
Here's the deal - console games used to have a 6 year lifespan. That's shrinking to 3 years. This basically halves return on investment for new console systems.
There are 4 major players in the console war now.
Sega, Microsoft, Nintendo and Sony - all are trying to get exclusive development deals so that hot games only come out on their platforms. There's not that many good titles, some platforms are going to get screwed and all will have to pay for exclusive development.
A lot of the major game houses are struggling - see fatbabies for the industry gossip. This means even fewer titles and thus less profit for the console makers.
Consoles don't turn a profit - as ESR likes to remind us, they sell below cost and make it up on game sales. The current shortage of parts will exacerbate this problem.
Console launches are expensive - it takes a lot of investment capital to launch a new platform. Microsoft is avoiding this by using off the shelf technologies, and it looks like nintendo is doing the same, but that leaves sony and sega in the cold.
PC's are top of the line technologically speaking - a 1.2ghz athlon with a gf2 ultra packs a lot of horsepower combined with a lot of excellent libraries and developer know-how. The PS2 is quite advanced but hard to code for. Since nintendo's PowerPC comes from IBM it probably doesn't have altivec and that leaves it depending on the (for a risc chip) weak FPU powerpc's are known for. The dreamcast uses PowerVR - a tech that was way to shitty for the PC platform - oops. The X-Box is sound here since it basically is just a PC with parts removed.
I don't see room for 4 companies in this market, and I don't see how Microsoft (with the best outlook) can sell a stripped down pc that is limited by TV set resolutions.
Consoles are in trouble.
--Shoeboy