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Linux.com Chats with BioWare Regarding "Neverwinter Nights"
I lurked in the recent Linux.com Live! IRC chat with the folks from BioWare (creators of the Baldur's Gate series) regarding their development of Neverwinter Nights. The game looks awesome, and will have a Linux client. Rock. Good discussion, and the perspective of commericial companies on porting is always good.
Tribes 2 will be coming out shortly for Linux, and if we don't support it, other companies will hesitate on making that investment.
linux tribes
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Actually, I thought this game was being ported to Be.
Want this account? The password is geekizoid!
Till you can create a video file using the codecs that ship with BeOS, which plays back under Windows and MacOS, BeOS can't possibly qualify as the best platform for A/V.
Be has been about to get excellent OpenGL support since they first released R5. How long has it been? It does not support D3D at the moment. A third party product will support D3D once OpenGL support is in place.
Frankly, if I were a game developer, I might keep BeOS in the back of my mind in the coming months, but it wouldn't be worth my time now.
Ranessin
Just as I kick one habit (Diablo2, baulders Gate) here they go getting me all stoked for a new game!
Will D&D forever curse me? In the 70's it got my ass kicked, in the 80's prevented me from getting a girlfriend and in the 90's has caused me to stare at computer screens for endless hours!
Remember it, write it down, take a picture, I dont give a fsck!
I've been pining for a port of Battlezone to the Mac for years now, and it will never happen. The Mac has a vast marketshare compared to Be, and the number of games available for the Mac is pathetic if you're a hard-core gamer.
Thankfully, I'm not a hard-core gamer, so I enjoy Close Combat, Myth, Oni, and a couple of other games on my Mac and am happy.
It's one of those horrible chicken and egg things, and I do feel sorry for Be users. Maybe the best thing for games on Be would be a serious shareware developer to come out with a game or two that would exploit the power of the BeOS.
Of course, finding a developer, even of shareware, to do this is the hard part.
Read the EFF's Fair Use FAQ
What is a defination of a port? The non-MS versions will be coming out at the same time, not exactly like they area releasing them six months after the release of the MS version (that is what I define as a port).
Indeed they mentioned the fact that the Linux version is the one they started on first.
And hey, what about Creatures? Really gave a good insight into the fact that developers would like to make software for other platforms, but they need to convince the publishers that its worthwhile.
So, please if you are interested in splicing genes on artifical life, go to www.learningcompany.com and mail them asking for a Linux version. Get enough and they will publish. Its already pretty much made...
Planescape: Torment was not a product of BioWare, it just used the Infinity Engine that was originally used in Baldur's Gate. Planescape:Torment was from Black Isle Software, the same people who brought you Fallout and Fallout 2.
I don't know about you guys, but I remember back in the day(joke) that the only reason I upgraded my 386 was so I could stop playing Wolfenstien and move on up to the world of Doom. After that, I moved up to a 486 so I could play DoomII and so I could play Falcon 2.0. It seems pretty obvious to me that the most important thing for those out there who want GNU/Linux to be a true contender for the desktop to do is to pour loads of resources into getting the top games onto the platform. Not just that, but to have competitive prices and simultaneous release dates. Get them out to Best Buy, Wal-Mart etc. Not just distributing the titles via stores that quite frankly, aren't all that widespread. If you want to appease the masses, you have to get to them. No one is going to come. You have to go. I look forward to playing this on my GNU/Linux box, and on my roomate's Windows box. Fact is, although we may not like what is out there, we have to live with the fact that it is not going to go away easily. We also need to stop biting our nails whenever some exec spouts off. We need to start coding and stop whining. Those who can't code, run PR for us, beta test for us, write documentation for us! Have fun etc... Remember, you can change the world by yourself, but you can't make it livable alone.
11:43.55 NWN is going to Windows, Linux, Beos and Mac
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Of course I suppose you can't compete for first post if you actually read the links that were posted with the article.
Is it open source ?
Bioware did not write Planescape: Torment, though it uses the Infinity Engine developed by Bioware. Torment (which is a ROCKING game) was created by Black Isle Studios, the division of Interplay which publishes Bioware's games.
Raymond Prach, Bioware QA
Thats the biggest load of BS I have ever heard! I really hope you were joking and I made myself look like a fool.
:-) and to learn about Operating Systems. Those were his own words.
Linus went out of his way to say that the desktop is King, lose the desktop and you lose the server too. I know a lot of gamers who would drop Windows in an instant if they could get games on Linux (they do not like BSOD's either you know...).
Go over to FreeBSD or something...
Do not speek for Linus, he made Linux to be fun
I would love to buy more Linux games but Loki has stopped shipping new games and has yet to ship SMAC and Mindrover...
I wish I could get excited over a new game on Linux, but that's why I have an N64. For the rare PC game that is worthwhile, I have a Windows box.
Do many people actually use a Linux box as their sole gaming platform? Am I a freak for using my Linux boxes as servers and development platforms?
Don't mean to start a flame war here, but IMHO it's a lot harder to write stuff, especially games, for MacOS than either Win32 or any of the various Linux display models. The worst thing is the memory management (I know this is changing in MacOS X, but for now...). Having to effectively specify how much memory your app will use at design-time is bad, and very few users know how to allocate extra memory to a program if they actually have it.
It's coding ease as much as anything which gets releases -- there's still a fair number of Amiga releases, yet it has a (comparitively) small user base.
Just my experience in programming anyway. Please don't flame me about [whatever OS] being better or anything...
The most important part of multi-platform development, as this showed, was it catches programming errors. The errors that show up on ports are the same errors that show up on weird drivers, etc.
Yes, Linux gaming is good. Mac gaming is good. Anything that fights MS monopoly power is good.
Whether you like Windows or not, MS Monopoly power SUCKS.
Will this game come with support for Linux/Mac/Be/Windows in one package? Thats the only way companys should go, otherwise they'll probally get low sales for anything but Windows. Now if only Blizzard would support linux.
After the horrible bomb that was D&D The Movie, I'm glad that at least the games have some redeeming value. I wish more people would get into D&D and not make fun of it so much. I've been playing for years and we all have girlfriends. Are we breaking the mold?
...All I can say is that my life is pretty strange...
Wrong... BeOS 4.5 has OpenGL support for Voodoo2 and Voodoo3 cards (and it is not the fastest). BeOS 5.* has no OpenGL support at the moment. How about actually doing some research before spouting off blatantly incorrect statements.
Ranessin
you mean falcon 3.0. falcon 2.0 was Falcon AT.
"Chill, Orrin!"---Trent Lott
I wouldn't edit text with the Gimp, and I don't use a machine whose primary imput devices are mice and keyboards as my main gaming platform. Again, it's all about the right tool for the right job...
Ita erat quando hic adveni.
There's still some work it needs for complete Linux support as you can read here but it's a lot less than developing your own framework.
ZooLib requires very little in the way of system graphics support so it wouldn't be too hard to port it to the framebuffer if you prefer doing that to running your game under X.
Because ZooLib uses the MIT License (also known as the X11 License) it is appropriate for use in both proprietary and Free Software programs.
If ZooLib doesn't suit your needs, have a look at the GUI Toolkit, Framework page.
Mike
-- Could you use my software consulting serv
And at this point, I'd like to plug the project I enjoy being a member of, Neverwinter Nights Online. NWNO is devoted to reproducing the Forgotten Realms' forest nation of Cormyr on a dedicated 24/7/365 NWN server with a T1 link. A lot of other projects plan to use a network of volunteers with DSL and cable to run world "modules" that will be linked via "portals." While we at NWNO applaud and cooperate with all persistent world efforts, the senior DM (and server owner) decided that this approach is subject to too many avenues for abuse, inconsistency, and preferred more control over the platform... and the environment. We hope to retake the definition of Roleplaying from EQ, AC and the other munchkinlands, and restore its original meaning.
I can see the fnords!
At least we both are addicted to Diablo II, and we've sworn not to even touch Everquest. The danger lies in that I have a budget set aside for Linux games (yeah, yeah, I know, fiancial planning and all that crap), and I've been waiting on Tribes, and now this - man, I'm doomed!
Hi! This is the Sig, blatantly attached to the end of this comment.
"just connect this to..."
BZZT.
Liberty.
Because not all games can run that great on a console, especially not what NWN is going to be demanding.
Consoles are great for many games, but not all...
Ultima Online had a Linux client for a while but after they dropped ongoing support for it I dropped them.
I'll buy NWN when it comes out specifically because they have Linux support. I'd buy Creatures 3, too, if I could get the Linux binary. Chances are in either of those cases it wouldn't be counted as a Linux sale (I always make a point of sending the product registration cards in, though.)
Of course, I have a PlayStation and will probably buy a PS2 at some point here, since for the most part the Linux gaming scene sucks.
I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?
And the Beanie Award for "Best Abuse of Slashcode's support of punctuation in a User Name" goes to...
El riesgo vive siempre!
Will there be a Mac/Linux/BeOs version? We are planning a simultaneous PC / Macintosh / Linux release for Neverwinter, with all three versions to be included in a single box. BeOS users will be happy to know that we are also developing a BeOS version in parallel to our other platforms. It's been going very smoothly so far and, if all goes well, we hope to include it as part of our standard release. On the PC, Neverwinter Nights will run under Win95/98, as well as NT 4 (using service pack 6), which is our favored development OS at present. The game also works quite well on Windows 2000 and we hope to continue support up to release.
They stuck me in an institution, said it was the only solution, to...protect me from the enemy, myself
first post, bitch!
Just for clarification. Be has software only OpenGL support. That's it. Software only OpenGL support can hardly be considered excellent OpenGL support (which is what the original poster claimed) and is hardly the fastest out there (which is what you claim).
Ranessin
Even if this "port" is sold at the major retail outlets, do you honestly believe it will make back its development costs? The way i see it there are three models for games in the linux community.
MUDS/Shareware/Freeware - No way to profit.
Browser Based - Ads generate income, but there's no way to tell if its coming from the linux community.
Commercial - If you can convince stores to carry your game for a very limited target audience when compared to console or Win/Mac, you still have to get word out to the community in hope that they'll buy your linux version (good luck securing an advertising budget for this). There is no chance in making anywhere near the profit you would for a platform with a broader user base. Since most young kids do not use the platform, your most profitable demographic is unable to get you the "uninformed consumer" purchase which makes or breaks games.
I commend BioWare for being early adapters of this, but until more companies do this (and lose money), there will be little incentive for companies to take what they see as a longshot on linux ports.
" Well, you know *shrug* " - Mr. Generic Guy
NWN was one of the first fully graphical multiplayer Internet games. This little 16 color game developed one of the strongest communities I've ever seen. Forget Everquest, I knew people who were spending $600 a month on Neverwinter Nights (back when you still paid your ISP by the hour).
NeverWinter Museum - Screenshots and memorials from the old game. One of the screenshots (page 5) even shows my character. And of course if had to be a shot of me getting Feebleminded. ;p
"Neurosis is stupid."
Neurosis
Man, that Frapazoid guy is annoying. I thought they told him to shut up until the end.
Sounds pretty damn impressive if they can pull it off. I'm definetly looking forward to playing on Linux. Sounds like they are including all versions in the same box. Cool. Time to see if DirectX is faster than XFree86. However, any news of when they plan on releasing?
I'm hoping they didn't get caught up in feature bloat and try to make the end-all-be-all fantasy RPG game that never ships.
there are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots
I'll tell you one thing - I seem to be having a rough time. Maybe I'm too sensitive or something. I know I'm (at least physically) as attractive if not more so than many people...
:)
It's pretty funny, objectively speaking. My apartment has basically become a flophouse for between four and eight males, and between two and ten females every night, but I still haven't gotten laid since Randy and I moved in last week.
C'est la vie, I suppose...
So, any single women in the Richmond, VA area who love Linux and wouldn't mind going out skateboarding with their boyfriend and his roommate once in a while? My email address above is correct...
In post-9/11 America, the CIA interrogates YOU!
Patrick, You couldn't be more wrong about linux gaming. But everyone else is too. Patrick here has a legitimate, on-topic opinion of the articla and, ludicrous as it is, it deserves to be heard. Patrick shouldn't be modded down just because everybody else disagrees with him. Modding down is to get rid of people posting strings of dirty words, links to porno videos, and posts that read "All your base are belong to us." Give the man a voice, mod him up.
-Zuchinis
But it is much, much easier to do something complex in ZooLib than many other means that might be available.
And yes, you can probably set the background color much quicker by programming to the native API of your OS, but then you wouldn't have a cross-platform app, and to ship one, you'd have to port and maintain multiple parallel codebases.
The learning curve pays off the larger the application you write.
Mike
-- Could you use my software consulting serv
For those not familar with neverwinter nights -
1. It is going to be published for MacOS,BeOS,Windows,and Linux, all to be released at same time
2. It is a D&D 3rdEdition game allowing modules for D&D to be used directly on PC, with a person acting as DM (true D&D on PC)
3. It does not have a set release date, but should be 3rd or 4th quarter 2001
4. More specific D&D info - takes place from Neverwinter(northern FR) to Luskan, over 200 spells, up to 20th lvl. 7 races, 12 classes, 9 alignments. 200+ monsters, can import characters from the BG series.
5. can play singleplayer or multiplayer, allows full voice communication
All of this can be changed(such as additional spells can be created, 20th lvl can be exceeded with future enhancements to be released). The main selling point of the game is that it has near-infinite playability, since you can create your own modules and use others modules, not just the ones included with the game. Therefore, you can create a PnP D&D game to PC!
Sorry if this is a recap.. but the newbies need to know
for more info - http://www.rpgplanet.com/planetnw
One would do very well to use them together in an application, and now that you've been so helpful as to tell me about SDL, I'll investigate how we might do a ZooLib/SDL integration.
ZooLib is for doing the following in a platform-independent way from C++:
- threads with various kinds of mutexes, reader/writer locks and so on
- thread-safe reference counted smart pointers
- Simple vector graphics
- fonts and text
- creating and using various kinds of windows (but not what the X folks refer to as "window management - dragging and so on)
- platform-appropriate graphical user interface widget creation, drawing, input and layout
- TCP networking
- single-file databases (the databases, being entirely contained in single files, can be used as user documents, so the user could double-click on on a desktop to open it in an editor after receiving it via email).
- streams and filters, conceptually like C++'s iostreams, but more appropriate for binary data formats
- Debugging memory allocator and debugging support through widespread use of assertions
Ah, but one thing it's completely lacking is any support whatsoever for multimedia! That's because the original developers primarily targeted Mac OS and Windows, for which the cross-platform QuickTime API was readily available, but not open source.Now don't fault me if I leave something out, because I only just now found out about SDL, but lets see what SDL says it has:
- Simple, portable direct access to the graphics framebuffer, audio device, mouse and keyboard
- Support for OpenGL (the actual GL support must come from a separate library, many of which are available)
There's probably more but it's not readily apparent from the page.What I'd suggest you do in writing a game is use ZooLib for the overall GUI and threading support, and have a pane in the middle of the screen where your main action takes place. In that pane you do direct-to-screen drawing with SDL and if you're doing fancy 3D, consider using OpenGL. Use SDL for your sound.
Again, thank you for bringing this to my attention.
Mike
-- Could you use my software consulting serv
Just play nethack and be happy! www.nethack.org
-There are only soldiers, and men who wish they were soldiers.
Providing commerical support for "Linux"....do people mean:
1) RedHat
2) RedHat/Debian/whatever is determined to be a 'popular' version of Linux
3) Or support for SCO/UnixWare/BSD/Solaris X86/QNX that can run 'Linux ELF' binaries? (I don't know how good some of them are, but FreeBSD runs the Linux version of quake FASTER than Linux does, according to the tests done by the duke of URL)
Loki is the only vendor to date I am aware of who has said "Yes we will support our Linux games on BSD". Hopefully the BioWare staff will see the wisdom in capturing the (almost) entire X86 based unix market by supporting a Linux ELF format that will run using the facilites added to SCO/UnixWAre/BSD/Solaris x86/QNX.
If it was said on slashdot, it MUST be true!
Yes, it's that Bad_CRC. He also runs a Linux Tribes site @ http://www.tribalwar.com/linuxtribes/.
:wq
-- Eat your greens or I'll hit you!
-- Eat your greens or I'll hit you!
they've been developing the linux, mac and PC versions simultaneously.
They are also concurrently working on a BeOS version, but that's going a little slower. They do hope to have all 4 versions ready to go at launch time.
The word "port" doesn't really apply here.
If you're one of their developers, or you ask them nicely, they'll send you a copy. It's going through extensive testing as - rumour has it - that the new BeOS desktop will be hardware accelerated.
-- Eat your greens or I'll hit you!
-- Eat your greens or I'll hit you!
-- Eat your greens or I'll hit you!
-- Eat your greens or I'll hit you!
I just love scrolling through pages of non-color-coded, single-spaced, fixed-width-font, completely raw IRC transcript.
Seriously... for something this cool they could at least do a little formatting.
I know... I'm being picky. Whatever.
"The unicode stuff in the latest version is working fabulously well. My russian mafia friends are ecstatic."
Minor sidenote: their are a goodly number of addon libs associated with SDL that address some of the things you say zoolib offers. (image and movie file formats, networking, fonts, etc. etc.). This is not to knock zoolib (about which I know basically zip), I'm just pointing it out for the sake of completeness.
--
News for geeks in Austin: www.geekaustin.org
News for Geeks in Austin, TX
Why the hell is it so damn hard to get a game like Quake III for Linux running?
I have a supported video card, I have the Glibc libraries, I have X Free 3.36 and all the other crap mentioned on the box, I installed it as per the instructions, but still it craps out. I might find out what causes it but it takes me so long that I lose any enjoyment I might get from it.
Linux will only be a games platform for geeks. For the normal gamesplayer it is not an option. Gamers want to PLAY games, they don't want to mess with installing.
In Windows they made great advances in recent years so it's not hard to install a game as it used to be.
Why can't this be the same under Linux?
I'm just happy Bioware threw out DirectX, and specifically DirectPlay.
Writing their own network code from scratch seems overkill though. Perhaps they should look at OpenPlay .
To the end user, there is no OpenGL for BeOS worth giving a damn about. That's all that really matters.
Ranessin