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U.S. v. Microsoft Arguments - Streaming Audio
Wendy writes "Oral arguments in the Microsoft Case appeal are scheduled Monday and Tuesday before the full D.C. Circuit Court of Appeals. In a first, the court is offering live audio streaming through ABC News and C-SPAN. Arguments begin at 9:30 a.m. -- monopoly maintenance and tying Monday; attempted monopolization, relief, and Judge Jackson's conduct of the trial Tuesday. Microsoft is, of course, appealing Jackson's breakup order and final judgment."
If you see Billy G. on the streets begging for money, please, show your sympathy, and offer him a Linux CD.
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How to set up PPP in Linux Mandrake:
Click on Internet Dialer, userid and password. Go to Setup and enter the phone number of your ISP. Return to the main dialer window and click Connect. Wow, what a nightmare. I suppose I'd better return to Windows. Good troll though.
No, non-technical people with computers really are idiots. Bless my mom and dad, but they can't do crap on their computer. My mom did not know you have to be on the Internet to update software!! I know a girl who thought Netscape was the Internet!! Besides, if everyone ends up learning Linux and Unix, how are we gonna get paid the big bucks?
There are four boxes used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order.
Not forgetting the userid and password, d'oh :-)
Err... Hate to say it, but I think netscrape made their own demise. They created a crappy browser that ahdered to their own standard, instead of accepted standards. Once netscape 4 came out, I was disgusted and switched to IE. Granted -- Netscape 6 is quite a bit better than the 4.x versions of netscape.
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The (Hopefully) Great Slashdot Blackout
Borland did databases
They still do - Paradox and dbase still are used by programmers for small db applications. Iterbase which is now multi-platform and open source is just as good and possibly better then MS SQL. But Borland has and will be a development tools company. And their new concepts for their programming environment will help distance them from platform dependence.
Lotus did spreadsheets
Lotus Notes (or whomever owns it now) still exsists and is in use in allot of companies since it is cheaper than exchange.
Oracle is gradually being squeezed out of the database on Intel market
Oracle is still going pretty strong, since it runs on Windows, Novell, Unix, Linux and Solaris. Most database developers who have worked with both Oracle and MS SQL will chose Oracle for database server. Oracle is a better and faster product than MS Sql. MS SQL has only done as well as it has because it was bundled in Back office. "Why buy a new SQL server when we have one." Thats the concept I've herd many times.
Sybase is already a victim of "embrace and extend"
And if I am not mistaken (which is possible) MS SQL is built on Sybase, or is Sybase, I forget which, but yes it has a new name.
to force its "me too" products on its customers.
Don't I know it. I think the point of splitting them up is so Office and other M$ applications will not be able to Modify and change the OS. Since I cannot easily get away with making my own version of a M$ dll and add my own functionality to it, why should office be allowed to? This also makes it harder on other programmers write software for windows since the underlying dll's can change depending on the current version of Office and IE. M$ hasn't killed off all thier competition in particular fields, but since they are competing with all of us programmers out there it is just a matter of time before they either buy out or "render incompatable" other smaller products.
I personally don't want to work for M$. But if something is not done to fix their current business practices and strong arm techniques then that may be the only place left to do commercial programming for windows.
If ignorance is bliss, the world is full of blissful people
Not that I don't appreciate being able to say I listened - hope you had as much luck as I did.
-- Imagine how much more advanced our technology would be if we had eight fingers per hand.
A far superior desktop OS (still is), killed by microsloth's unfair abuse of monopoly power tactics.
I know, I was an OS/2 marketing droid for IBM at the time.
Just a thought but would netscape have been so bad if they had continued to make money off thier browser. If M$ had not started giving away thier browser to all and had charged people the same way that netscape was would netscape have continued to improve?
Its very hard to contunue to upgrade software when there is no salery in it for the programmers. I agree that Netscape 4 just sucked. I use IE...but if IE wasn't pushed so hard by M$ and people got used to netscape would they have switched to IE? I know people now who still use netscape because it is the browser they know.
If netscape would have had a large corporation backing them with billions to blow on a free browser I bet netscape would have been as good or better than IE today.
If ignorance is bliss, the world is full of blissful people
I do not understand the government's insistence on focussing on the Explorer vs. Netscape issue. This is trivial compared to what happened to Wordperfect. By bundling Office with virtually every new PC sold, MS basically put Corel under. When are they going to get the main point: having the code for the OS gives MS an unfair advantage.
Why should MS be punished for the incompetence of its competitors? E.g. apple trying to make a quick profit rather than build a user base or Netscape trying to sell a browser when they had a better product, then complaining when someone gave away a better browsers for free.
Monopoly power should be the prize for companies that produce a good product and market it well, we shouldn't be punishing them.
Good job embedding the "The monopoly line has been bullshit from the start" quote. And the "jealousy" keyword was genius.
For those that don't know what I'm talking about, see my (current) sig.
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Non-meta-modded "Overrated" mods are killing Slashdot
Non-meta-modded "Overrated" mods are killing Slashdot
(Hey Ryan! Here's your proof!)
1-202-737-0001 East coast/Central
1-202-737-0002 Mtn./Pacific
Call back five or six times, and you'll be able to get on the air.
So far, the calls have been dominated by a fine collection knowledge-free pro-M$-types.
Tell people the other side of the story!
As I listen, at 9:20 Mountain Time, it sounds like the government prosecutor is having trouble defending himself and NS and Java.
He got nailed with the proposal that essentially, the people behind his case, simply want someone else to become the monopoly. The prosecutor is equating "standard" to "monopoly." So, therefore, if java were to become a standard... it's middleware - the JVM - would be a monopoly.
DeBois needs to hurry up and point out that, yeah, that *might* be a valid point - the middleware monpolized by one company. BUT he needs to point out this would increase competition in regards to this: everyone would have to compete on a level playing field insofar as they'd all be developing on one platform. (this of course, begs you to assume that all JVMs are qual, blah blah blah....)
you know that. i know that. debois wasn't so quick to it.
it sounds like he's really gettin' battered on this and web standards.... the judge & co. doesn't realize that web standards aren't a monipoly... they're like highway speeds and yellow lines... they're the rules of the game the developers and software cos need to play to. and the one that plays the best, or plays the worst (but the best tin marketing and such) wins.
these lawyers are morons.
Yes, ideal.
Why aren't they streaming this with Windows Media Player? =)
Hi, I am a MS-defender and I'm here to flame you.
Powerpoint ships with Standard, Professional and Premium.
It does not ship with Small Business edition, but then they ship you Publisher instead which is likely of more use to a small business.
So it appears you are wrong.
On the other hand if Powerpoint was included in every bundle, I would argue that I'm wasting my money because I have no use for it.
It's a zero sum argument, neither side really has a good point that doesn't have an opposite counterpoint equally as good.
Umm, dBase was already dead by the time Access was introduced.
Borland was pushing Paradox.
The dBase III users who were disgruntled by dBase IV(for good reason) moved to FoxPro.
Clipper was extremely popular because it would compile your resulting app into a redistributable executable.
Access's secret to success at the time was that it was relational and it had wonderful report generation facilities.
I still hate it to this day, but admit that it is useful.
They were slapped with a consent decree. They ignored it. The only stopped their predation when the full weight of the Department of Justice came down on them, and not even completely then.
Microsoft's tactics throughout the trial were to look like total buffoons, to lie to the judge (remember the faked videotape?), and to make statements which flew in the face of truth. Their tactics worked. They managed to get a reaction from the judge (in the form of annoyed comments made outside the courtroom), and now they're using that to claim that the entire verdict should be thrown out.
In other recent news, Microsoft ran misleading advertisements about WebTV, and got zinged for it by the FTC... and then they ran misleading advertisements about Windows CE, and is being charged with it again.
Microsoft has learned how to break the law: (1) keep flagrantly ignoring the law until slapped with a court order to change its business practices; (2) pay lip service to the court order by making superficial attempts to show compliance; then (3) attack the validity of the court proceedings which resulted in the court order, and seek to have the whole thing overturned.
Hey, it's worked so far!
A number of them have said. "I have been using computers for N years. I know what I like. I tried Netscape. It doesn't support all the web-pages I go too. I went back to Internet Explorer by choice. Therefore Microsoft hasn't done anything wrong."
They seem unaware that Microsoft's browser and its web-page generation tools support the same non-standard extensions. These callers seem unaware that their support of Microsoft reinforces the DOJ's argument that Microsoft used predatory tactics to suppress fair competition.
Undeniably Microsoft is a monopoly, whatever the $600/hour lawyers can say in the court about it is not going to change the fact. However, is braking up this software giant going to do any good? Well, I do not think so. First of all, anyone thinking that two companies, one producing the OS, and the other applications for that OS must be blind. If 90% of all computers run Windows, and the remaining 5% run MacOS, it is unlikely that there would ever be an Office version for UNIX or Linux. Why, because that already covers 95%. Secondly, what would be the nature of the competition? Those companies would have to work very closely anyway, making products for the Windows platform. Finally, one can only imagine the turmoil caused by the breakup decision. The stock market would go down, thousands of people get fired, and more lose on Microsoft shares. Isn't it better to impose certain restrictions on Microsoft, which would disable anti-competitive actions on their part? Perhaps it would be a good idea to require Microsoft to open the source code to all their free products (such as IE, Media Player, Outlook), or force them to charge money for them if they choose not to? (Of course that could be difficult to do since MS could charge some ridiculous amount like $0.10, but such law with additional restrictions is not impossible. When it comes to MS ignorance, I believe that their late moves are indented to lower their market share. The new software activation model (currently used by Citrix), which requires a 30-day activation based on an algorithm, is nothing but a rope on MS neck. In the short term it may give them more money, but in the long run (few years) the use of other operating systems will increase. But again, maybe that is what MS wants? I have been using Windows for 6 years. But I will never purchase anything from MS after the new activation is in place. I just do not like the model where I purchase a piece of software that I do not fully own. I will likely find it difficult, since I work for an IT dept. in a mid-size corporation, but we have been actively researching other options like FreeBSD, Solaris, and Linux, and already lobotomized a few Wintel servers and workstations. I hope that the UNIX-like OSes will get better on the workstations some time soon, so we could introduce it to more staff. Keep up the good work!
Uhm...yes they can. Lucent has, IIRC, released Winmodem drivers for Linux.
Surely you can't serious believe that an average Mom & Dad will be able to successfully install these drivers in Linux?
Why is he not representing the government? Did Bush decide to get rid of him?
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If you think big enough, you'll never have to do it.
The main fireworks are going to happen tommorow when Jackson gets panned. Having insulted the Appeals court judges in print the question is how severe the criticism will be, not whether he will be criticised. I would expect at least one Appelate judge to make a coded invitation to resign. The case was sunk from the moment they went after the Internet Explorer case. Netscape drove its competitors (Spyglass, OpenMarket, Spry) from the market by giving away the product - in all but the most legalistic sense. Microsoft did the same to Netscape, tough luck. Marc Andressen must also bear a lot of the blame. He blabbed his mouth off everywhere about replacing Microsoft and generally made it impossible for Gates to ignore him. Happily Bill squished Marc like a bug. Serve the @#(@#^%(& right.
Looking for an Information Security student project suggestion?
Try http://dotcrimeManifesto.com/
Don't all laws have to be tried before a judge sooner or later?
According to your analysis it should be legal for corporations to hire death squads to assinate competitors. If they were simply allowed to kill anybody they wanted they would not worry about the uncertainty of trying to make a profit.
You gotta draw the line somewhere and the society has done exactly that. No matter where you draw the line someone will object and it will end up in front of a judge. This is how our system works.
War is necrophilia.
They are not idiots trust me. MS bought the president they wanted, they got the Attorney General they wanted installed and now the DOJ is going to throw the case for them.
Even if the circuit court sees through this kabuki dance the republican supreme court is going to give Bill Gates what he want's anyway.
At this time this nothing but a waste of our tax dollars.
War is necrophilia.
Seems I have to use MS software to view MS people pleading that you are not forced to use MS software.
The split up do? Will it help the consumer not really it still will only give them a microsoft specific solution. It does not give people a choice. What should be done is the opening up of the windows api that is more important than anything else. It will allow everyone easier access to createing windows alternative on the desktop.
"
Now help your mom download, apply, configure, compile and install a source code patch!
"
Mum,
can you dial the internet please?
$ ssh mumsbox.herisp.net
$ login :
.....
Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. (Einstein)
huh?
Yes but the question is why should someone learn
a new interface? For a computer game it makes
sense, but Linux is no faster, no more stable (than
NT/W2K), has less hardware support and less
software. In short the 'sheeple' are perfectly
well aware of what they want in an OS and
Linux isn't it.
> I'm not interested in court proceedings, and
> probably will not watch, but it would be
> interesting to see the courts used yet again as
> a tool to appease jealousy.
It is strange to see how people who have too little interest in the case to actually read the judgement (even though it is easily available and written in plain English), somehow feel able to firmly state that the judges decission is in error.
The Microsoft spin doctors must have done an incredibly good job.
Good God! Is anyone listening to this? The government (prosecution) counsel is being beaten up by the Court on the following argument:
"The Netscape-Java middleware merger would simply replace the Microsoft monopoly and its' application barrier to entry with a new monopoly, the Netscape-Java middleware monopoly with the Netscape-Java application barrier to entry"
Will someone please tell the idiot attorney for the U.S. who is representing us that the difference is OPEN STANDARDS. THE DIFFERENCE IS OPEN STANDARDS. The difference is that anyone can implement the middleware layer because it has an open API, but NO ONE is allowed to create a parallel implementation of the windows API.
Will someone in D.C. please paint THE DIFFERENCE IS OPEN STANDARDS on your naked body and run screaming into the courtroom with your hair on fire!
God these judges are stupid. I can't believe our fate rests with them.
--
What happens when you outlaw guns
Yeah, kind of like a car. I hate having to be trained just to drive a rental car. Why can?t we just have one brand of car, I mean why do we need all the different makes and models anyway? And VCRs too, I just learned how to program my clock and now I have to do it all over again. Why can?t everything be like OSes? Think of how easy it would be to shop! I hate choices.
"Microsoft got to where they are today through two things - a comination of ruthless business tactics and complete incompetance on the part of potential competitors."
You know I hear this over and over. It makes me think of a 100 yard dash where all of the runners except for one falls. I mean, it could happen. But wouldn?t you think there was something fishy going on?
Now talk her through it over the phone with no feeback from her machine but what Mom reads you over the phone - I used to help people configure and link Microport System V/AT kernels over the phone all the time when I worked in their tech support department.
The command line does have its advantages over GUI in purely voice tech support but it's no substitute for just having nothing ever go wrong at all.
While difficult to achieve, complete reliability and ease of use are technical possibilities.
Mike
-- Could you use my software consulting serv
Is anyone else getting constant rebuffers/signal drops? I think we're taking down C-SPAN!
How does the MSDN subscription thing work into getting developers on board with not only MS OS, but MS development tools, as well as all the other software they produce? I have seen developers recommend MS products in situations where they may or may not have been ideal, simply because they had either warezed versions or already had access via this MSDN thing.
I do not have a signature
Corel's Wordperfect is most popular among the legal community... I wonder if M$'s legal team is using it? ;-)
The opinons expressed are those of the voices in the author's head and are not necessarily those of the author.
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I find the Microsoft lawyer's speaking style very annoying. Anyone else suspect that his very slow, deliberate speaking style is intended to waste time? The more he stretches out his replies, the fewer actual issues the court will be able to address?
You may find this funny, but there is actually a good argument why regulation should be avoided due to its effect on investors. The argument goes likes this: more regulation leads to more uncertainty about profits. The greater the uncertainty about profits, the greater is the risk of investing in the company. As the risk of investing in the company increases, investors will demand a higher return on there investment. This will mean that fewer investment projects are profitable, so there will be less investment, and so less innovation.
Less innovation by M$ makes everyone worse off. Of course, the linux user will object that it does not affect them: they are wrong. If it weren't for M$ continually developing software requiring ever more powerful hardware, they wouldn't have cheap, fast processors for their linux boxes. Furthermore, if it weren't for the spread of cheap PCs, the commercialisation of the internet would not have occurred. There would be less demand for programmers, so their wages would be lower.
I know most people on slashdot hate M$, but on the balance of probabilities, M$ has benefited them indirectly.
However, Bwanna, you are correct that of four potential office bundles, three do include PowerPoint. The fact that the most common version no longer includes it, and that it only stopped including it once the competition had been destroyed, is, I am sure, not your concern.
I have been utterly defeated, I must conceed... however I would be even more defeated if someone could point to a web site that shows that even 10% of the copies of Office sold or bundled in that last two years were Standard, Professional, or Premium and not the Small Business version.
Waltz, nymph, for quick jigs vex Bud.
MS should not be punished for the foolish actions of their competitors.
But they should be punished for illegal abuses of an existing monopoly in order to acquire another one. (in fact, a third monopoly)
Monopoly power may be considered as a reward for very successful companies. But it's dangerous. Remember kids, we have capitalism because it produces highly efficent markets as a side effect. Ideally. In reality, it produces markets that become efficient, then become inefficient as firms monopolize it and kill off competition. If you want to be a monopoly around here, it means that you're subject to special attention and rules.
MS has broken those rules, time and again, and harmed the marketplace for its own benefit. That is why there are legal actions against them, and in fact, those actions are not intended to punish, but to restore competition to the marketplace so that we can continue getting benefits from it.
-- This and all my posts are in the public domain. I am a lawyer. I am not your lawyer, and this is not legal advice.
Who bets the court will be using a Microsoft program to stream the audio?
the progress and freedom foundation completely dissed linux as a viable desktop operating system. infact one of the speakers that was presenting the interview said linux was like any other of those free stuff.. you download it.. play with them and throw them away .. my opinion is that microsoft is really going to play the linux game.. they DOJ really has to face the facts that linux is a desktop operating system not just a server operating system.
Early to rise and early to bed makes a male healthy and wealthy and dead.
While its true Microsoft do take a lot of their ideas from elsewhere, I don't think anyone could deny that MS Office, IE, and perhaps even VB are the best products available of their class. Sure, VB is not the most beautiful language out there, but if you want to get the job done quickly and have little experience, it is probably the best tool available.
Well, first off, I disagree. Ask anyone who's worked with Delphi and VB which is better. I strongly prefer WordPerfect to Word; I find I have to fight with it a LOT less to get anything written. And yes, while IE crashes less then Netscape 4.x on Windows, from a user perspective, what's the difference between the two? Opera's the closest thing around to an actually innovative browser.
Second, you weren't responding to my point. You still haven't said anything about Microsoft's alleged innovations. Please enlighten me?
If Microsoft doesn't innovate, then restricting Microsoft cannot decrease innovation in the software industry. It can only increase it, by allowing companies who do innovate to compete with Microsoft.
I am saying that there should be clear-cut laws and penalties for dealing with anticompetitive behaviour. I.e. it should not be left to the discretion of whichever judge happens to be sitting when the case comes to court. This reduces uncertainty and the related problems mentioned in my post above. If this means less regulation, so be it!
I'll agree with that; Sherman is definitely unconstitutionally vague. As long as laws are in place to prevent corporations from acting anticompetitively, and as long as those laws are actively enforced, I've got no problem with it.
--
There is no sin except stupidity -- Oscar Wilde
Microsoft's very own @Home service will no doubt be streaming video of their demise to thousands of households.
Except, nobody will watch. Why? Because nobody cares, and why should they? Most people are happy with Microsoft products, but a little disgruntled by their size and wealth. Net effect - a cancellation of interests.
It's unfortunate that Oracle and Sun were able to potentially destroy a company that in most respects is no worse than they, and whose product is much more appreciated by most consumers. The monopoly line has been bullshit from the start. There are plenty of competitors to Microsoft and always have been. However, none of these competitors have been as good at meeting customer's needs.
I'm not interested in court proceedings, and probably will not watch, but it would be interesting to see the courts used yet again as a tool to appease jealousy.
- qpt
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Domine Deus, creator coeli et terrae respice humilitatem nostram.
I'll be in School. Perhaps I could convince my teachers its a "Learning Experience".
Or, does anyone know any programs I would be able to use to record the one tommorow?
This is really great. There is really a good way to stay "live" on one of the trials of the century, well you know what I mean, without the trial turning into an "O.J. Simpson" TV catastrophy. At least the trial isn't going to be broadcast in Windows Streaming Media only :-)
Scroll up to the top of the page and read about why I feel cross-platform development is essential to the developer and the public.
Thank you for your attention.
Regards,
Mike
-- Could you use my software consulting serv
Okay, I realize that this article is now in the dustbin, but I gotta rant for a little bit about the apparent blindness of the appeals court. According to a number of news sources today, the judges believe Judge Jackson didn't make it clear what the browser market is and therefore this case is likely to be sent back down for clarification. And of course, the M$-friendly icing on the cake is that Jackson probably won't be allowed near the case. (More on this later)
/., of course...
Now, I've been looking at this page of the Findings Of Fact, and I think it's pretty clear that the market for Web Browsers is the market for products that provide "the ability for the end user to select, retrieve, and perceive resources on the Web." The fact that M$ integrated this into their OS doesn't mean it can't be separated from the OS experience. This is made quite clear in the FoF, but the appellate judges seem to be ignoring it. The FoF should be nearly unassailable, but instead we're starting from the (unconventional, to say the least) assumption that the FoF are wrong.
This pisses me off. Judge Jackson turned out to be the most clueful government employee I have ever seen and I want to defend him. This man does not deserve to be the target of M$ character assassination because he's honest. For some reason, these proceedings started with the assumption that Jackson was biased and that the FoF are tainted as a result. Play along with me for a moment as I think this through.
Imagine, for a moment, that you're a reasonably bright judge who has a big case in front of him. After months of listening to the defendant plead innocence and attempt to prove it using ethically (and legally) questionable tactics, a star witness for the defense admits that the defendant is guilty as sin. From this, you determine the defendant is full of shit and from that conclusion, you are suddenly able to examine the facts with perfect clarity. While things are so clear to you, it also becomes apparent that the defense was doing everything it could to prevent you from achieving this kind of clarity, because confusion works in their best interest.
I believe it was from this perspective that Judge Jackson wrote the FoF. From the moment of their release, M$ questioned him and screamed to every reporter who would listen that Jackson was 'clearly erroneous'. Now, given his enlightened perspective, and the barely hidden contempt for Judge Jackson, is anyone going to fault him for being angry with M$? That he spoke out was unfortunate, but given the context (post-M$ trial antics), what he said drew upon a rich history of dealing with the company in court.
Judge Jackson is worthy of our defense, and if the Government isn't capable of defending one of their own, what can we do to protect him? What can we do to influence the future of this important case?
Aside from rant on
[/irony]
As much as Microsoft have abused the position they currently occupy in the software market, they do have several points worth considering. Of course, this isn't to say that they shouldn't be broken up, but it's not the black and white issue that it is often presented as in the more Linux friendly media.
Microsoft got to where they are today through two things - a comination of ruthless business tactics and complete incompetance on the part of potential competitors. Without both of these, Microsoft wouldn't have their current near-monopoly and we'd see several competing commercial desktop operating systems being popular.
But would this be a good thing?
For the server market competition is all for the better - servers need to be robust platforms from which to run network services, and the fact that all the important protocols are open means that they can live side by side without problems. We've seen how having Linux and BSD have forced Microsoft to improve their code or be left behind.
But is this true for the desktop? At this end the majority of users aren't technically accomplished and simply want to get things done. If there are half a dozen different types of system, each with their own way of doing things, then people are either going to have to be trained for each one, or lose out on potential employment at offices using an OS they don't know. This all adds to employer's costs, and cuts down on profitability. The effects will be subtle, but in the long-run it'll damage the economy, which has become increasingly reliant on companies utilising technology.
So maybe Microsoft should be split instead into desktop and server divisions. Linux isn't really competing with Microsoft on the desktop anyway, so it shouldn't be a problem. Then Microsoft's server OS can stand or fall on it's own merits, or lack of.
Jon Erikson, IT guru
Its funny how analysts complain about potential stock losses from investing in Microsoft...
Perhaps the stock holders should tell the company leadership that violating the law isnt part of their mandate for maximizing profits?
And perhaps investors should think twice about investing in companies known throughout the industry for their blatant disregard for the differences between legal or illegal competetive practices.
and BeOS is here to stay!! /whiny voice >
but seriously... I remember Microsoft actually bringing Be into the arguments during the original case about a year ago when they lost the first time! Of course they also said their were as many Mac users as their are Win 95 users (yeah, good job not bringing up win 98 (and now ME) or NT into it))
< whiny voice> NO NO WHAT ABOUT PLAN 9??<
/* oops I accidentally made a comment, sorry */
Mum, could you dial up the internet please?
Now, please type
apt-get update brokenpackagethatneedsapatch
I think this argument is completely invalid for many reasons:
All the desktop system use the same metaphors to some extent (the only difference between folders between plateforms is their color). Pretending that having only one company insulates you from changes between brands ignores the fact that Microsoft is not very consistent with itself: compare DOS/ Windows 3.1 and Windows 95/98/etc... People had to be retrained anyway and will have to be again once Whistler/XP comes out.
This is the most ironic part of it all. Having a corporation being defended by the arguments of socialists (better integration, stability).
Interestingly some commentators pointed out that Gates stepped down and Ballmer took over within days of the DR-DOS settlement. They suggested that his resignation was one of the clauses of this settlement.
The settlement was about thirteen months ago.
The further I get in the book "Pride Before the Fall", by John Heilemann, the more I laugh at all the mistakes Microsoft and Bill Gates made. My favorite quote from the book has to be "the only thing I'd rather own than Windows is English...because then I could charge you $249 for the right to speak English, and I could charge you an upgrad fee when I add new letters--like N and T." (Pride Before the Fall, p. 84). It was said by McNealy, of Sun Microsystems, during the Senate Judiciary Committee hearing.
If the appeal is anything like the trial (and the events leading up to the trial), then you can count on some funny quotes.
At the next eco-hypocrisy-meeting, count the private jets used to get to the meeting. Should be interesting to see that
That was cute, microsoft just quoted piracy ;)
as a potential (price) competitor for IE if
netscape droped of the face of the planet.
Does this mean that they condone piracy?
- CrackElf
"Blake is an idealist, Jenna. He cannot afford to think." - Kerr Avon, Star One, Blakes 7
lets not. then we have all those 12 year old aolers on slashdot talking about insink. its bad enough already, lets not make it worse.
Why do I get the feeling that if the judgment doesn't go M$'s way, there's only one way we'll REALly hear it...
...it's all an illusion...
"Cool case"
As long as it isn't a decision by the judge, this is only of interest to lawyers, not ./ readers.
As is anyone who does not join in the chorus of yeling "bad microsoft, bad !" on Slashdot.
What's ironic is all of you dont get it... Any publicity is good publicity... It's the oldest marketing rule there is...
What's more ironic is that this court appeal is about unfair anti-competitive behaviour by MS and what do they do ? They highlight it on their Streaming Media product which is currently driving Real Audio (the Netscape of today) slowly out of business... But no one really cares because everyone hates Real Audio as much as MS anyway... The truth is the Streaming Media battle is probably a bigger and more important one that the browser wars...
If you dont think MS is laughing at this court case as "threat" to them you better think again.
What's even more ironic... is that if Slashdot and half it's armada of zealots had its way they'd see the MS corporation crushed in just the same manner as MS has crushed companies like Novell, Mosaic, and Netscape... And once you are done with MS no doubt you'd be yelling for Oracle and Sun's blood... till there was nothing left but open source systems.... and oh how different that would make you lot compared to MS... in actual fact the Open Source league have the same agenda as all these companies had/have only with a "nobility" that really only serves to paint a different shade of lipstick on the preverbial pig.
Me personally I'll go with MS they dont wear lipstick... they're honest and up front about their agenda... they're out to be "THE ONE" distributer of software systems to the world... they say it openly and without any BS.
It's always the way that you hate most in others the faults that lie within yourself... is it any wonder you guys hate MS so much.
He said "help" your mom install a source code patch not do it yourself.
such a nice ring to it... heh
While its true Microsoft do take a lot of their ideas from elsewhere, I don't think anyone could deny that MS Office, IE, and perhaps even VB are the best products available of their class. Sure, VB is not the most beautiful language out there, but if you want to get the job done quickly and have little experience, it is probably the best tool available.
Also, are you saying we should let companies get away with violating the law in order to prevent investors from realizing that investment is simply gambling by another name? Or are you saying we should simply change the laws so that companies and investors don't have to worry that unethical behavior is against the law anymore?
I am saying that there should be clear-cut laws and penalties for dealing with anticompetitive behaviour. I.e. it should not be left to the discretion of whichever judge happens to be sitting when the case comes to court. This reduces uncertainty and the related problems mentioned in my post above. If this means less regulation, so be it!
Now help your mom download, apply, configure, compile and install a source code patch!
I know people who are blessed with parents who know how to program, but my mom wanted to go back to CompuServe after Dad fixed her up with Earthlink because earthlink gave them netscape on the installation CD to read her email with.
She didn't know, until I came to visit, downloaded and tested every email client available for the Mac OS, and set her up with Sono Software's Musashi that everyone's email wasn't hardwired to their ISP. I tried to explain to her before I visited that she could get a different mail program, but didn't understand - she didn't know she was running Netscape to read her email, she thought she was reading her email in Earthlink.
My dad knows a little programming - FORTRAN IV on an IBM 360 via punchcards.
If something breaks on their little Mac (and they manage to do it somehow), it stays broken until their son the software consultant flies home to visit.
Please contribute articles to the Linux Quality Database on how to write quality software, test it, or send in links to quality information and resources that I can link to from the page or write articles about.
Especially important are articles that are accessible to ordinary users or inexperienced programers on how they can contribute in a meaningful way to QA testing of the Free Software product of their choice. An example is my article (still in progress) Using Test Suites to Validate the Linux Kernel.
Planning for the kernel testing database that I have in mind is still in a vaporware phase. If you know about designing database schemas I could really use your help in architecting this thing. I could write the database access code myself but I don't want to plan the schema because I'm sure I'd make a mess of it. I've never designed a real schema before.
I'd like to use Enhydra as the application server - it's pretty good and open source. You can integrate it with Apache or the Netscape server, or it comes with its own Java HTTP server built-in that you can use either for testing or production.
When you use the Enhydra multiserver in development the whole enhydra system can run in one Java VM process. I echoed out the java command line from the startup script to find out what all the parameters were then put the command line into NetComputing's AnyJ debugger (free as in beer for Linux) to run a whole web application in a source debugger. Much nicer and more effective than printing "here I am" to the console.
I believe they have Enhydra running under Kaffe now. It didn't when I tried it but the startup scripts now support it as an option. I reported the problem to the Kaffe folks quite a while ago and I guess they fixed it.
Mike
-- Could you use my software consulting serv