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Corel Linux - Not Quite Dead Yet
zhensel writes "In Corel's latest Linux newsletter, they comment on the "spin-off" of their Linux distro reported here recently. In an apparent attempt to capitolize on the recent woes at Suse, however, they also confirm the release of the second edition of their operating systems targeted at european markets for the low, low, price of ?4.95 (or a few hundred megs of bandwidth). In addition, they promise increased development for their Linux productivity software. " I kinda think its just spin, the kinda stuff you say when you're going down like "Duck and Cover"
1) Corel announces intent to work with Linux.
2) Microsoft invests in Corel.
3) Corel backs off on Linux.
4) Microsoft pulls support because of DOJ pressure.
5) Corel re-affirms Linux commitment.
I feel like a pattern is emerging.
go get it
Or not.
Read the EFF's Fair Use FAQ
Q. How do you turn failure into a "spin-off"? A. Apply spin.
No doubt someone is going to harp on the fact that Corel is "back" in the Linux business now that Microsoft is getting out of Corel. I agree with Taco on this, it's probably just spin.
The Linux community at large was never overly pleased with Corel, as they acted generally cluless about the community-generated OS. I don't want to discourage Corel or anyone from their pursuit of Linux products, but I would say that Corel is currently on very shakey ground - In both the Linux world and the financial world.
I hope they make it work, but I doubt they can.
Try to hack my 31337 firewall!
It doesn't look too good for them, when it turns very sour for them net there will be nobody to bale them out this time.
Why would anyone bother, they have nothing to offer. A sub-standard drawing program, and a poor Linux implementation. They've dug their own grave, and they should jump into it now.
It seems to me that the distribution's further development should be considered a good thing.
Ñ'
A local video store in a certain location in a shopping center would go under. The building would remain vacant for a couple months, then, lo and behold, another Mom n Pop video store moves in. They fail. Lather, rinse, repeat.
The lesson that nobody bothered to learn is, that place was OBVIOUSLY A LOUSY LOCATION FOR A VIDEO STORE.
How many Eurocentric Linux distros are going to have to eat it before they figure this one out?
Just my opinion... :)
This sig is xenon coated, and will glow red when in the presence of aliens
I kinda like the word "kinda"
Seriously, I think Corel management is doing a U turn now that Microsoft is devesting in the company. Never burn your bridges, especially if you're heading for Microsoft territory.
-adnans
"In short: just say NO TO DRUGS, and maybe you won't end up like the Hurd people." --Linus Torvalds
Anything that makes people more aware of OS's other than Windows is good. Maybe people will start with Corel and then move on to RedHat or Debian.
As an open-source community, we shouldn't betray Corel if they want to develop Linux.
They've slept with the enemy, been thrown out to the curb, and now is coming back to us.
with all the distro's out there, what would be the big loss of loosing a distro like corell? from what i gather it was targeted at the desktop user, and there's other distros that are like that (mandrake?).
I think they would do more good by open sourcing their office application, assuming it's less resource intensive than open office. then again there's koffice... i think their nitch in the market was too late and too small, and didn't provide enough value to the consumer.
I was recently talking with someone working in the linux group at Corel. They actually are spinning off, and are in the process of coming up with a name, and trying to find a location (good luck, not a lot of open office space in Ottawa).
Corel isn't exactly the most financially stable company, so they need to focus on what they are doing, and linux isn't the main focus of the company. So it gets spun off, in the same Corel Computer (remember the netwinder?) was.
In the end, it means the new company will succeed or fail on its own, which should clear up any conspiracy theories regarding microsoft and corel in the future.
By taking the price of their retail box down to around $5, they're helping to kill the very market that they need to exist to help push Linux (i.e.: retail Linux box sales). It costs easily twice that much per box. A company that is suffering as much as Corel is should know better than to do that. If anything, they should be doing what they can to push the prices higher so they can at least break even.
They deserve what they get...
I completely disagree,I think people are going to move away from Windows, and towards a free open source operating system as tech financing dries up. With the growth in the technology sector leveling off, I think PC manufacturers are going to have to find new ways to beef up the bottom line, and won't be quite as eager to send Microsoft a whole bunch of money for something they can get for free, and make modifications to.
I want my rights back. I was actually using them when our government stole them after 9/11.
And found out that it was just an extremely stable (libc5) version of debian with a pretty/friendly install program. It is extremely kiddy-fied.
[pink beam of light]
I love Java. I hate C++
After you learn you are a novice no more, you become an expert. Then you find that those features they put in to help novices are a real pain to experts. I don't hate Corel Linux or Java, but I don't use them either.
I wonder why programmers find it so hard to design systems that cater to beginners without being inefficient or patronizing.
They won't have the money to spend more unix admins when they can get a load of NT/Windows 2000 jockeys for a lot cheaper. And they have to retrain their sales staff and get the consumer to accept an inferior operating system for the puposes of games, browsing and office apps which what the consumer wants.
Anyway MS marketing budget benefits PC makers and the big ones get very advatangeous deals on Windows licenses.
Taco: are you posting stories with exploder?
People who aren't in the know might buy it, but those people want support. If you actually read the Derek Burney article and pay attention to what he is saying, corel can't become LinuxCare. They're not in the support business, they're in the application business.
So now what they're doing is spinning off the OS, maybe to someone like LinuxCare....and then they can concentrate on providing applications like WordPerfect and CorelDraw for Linux.
What's the problem with that??
The kinda stuff VA Linux has been saying lately?
--
* CmdrTaco is an idiot.
"Remember when the U.S. had a drug problem, and then we declared a War On Drugs, and now you can't buy drugs anymore?"
It sounds like Corel is trying to undercut SuSE in
sales in Europe...
This smacks of Microsoft... makes me shudder.
To me, this goes flat in the face of what made Linux successful.. which is a community development of the OS and accompaning utilities/applications regardless of the company you work for.
Could be wrong, but then, Microsoft could believe in fair competition.
DOS is dead, and no one cares...
DOS is dead, and no one cares...
If there's a Bourne Shell, I'll see you there
Well, if Corel Linux is anything like the guy in The Holy Grail, someone will soon whack it on its head and put it out of its misery.
I mean, honestly--has anyone ever used it, other than to see what it was about? Does it exist as the primary/sole OS on anyone's desktop? (I won't even ask about servers!)
Not arguing that it's good, bad, or indifferent. It just doesn't have ANY market share that I can see, and with Corel gasping for breath, I don't see that changing.
"People who do stupid things with hazardous materials often die." -- Jim Davidson on alt.folklore.urban
If they continue on the Linux front, then they will give a windows user here and there a chance to switch over with their easy install and learn the benefits of opensource/GPL. And this, of course, is a good thing. It helps people because they can put an OS on their machine without the Micros~1 tax and those people can help other people do the same. It helps people have more control in how they use their machines. It gives us just a bit more freedom.
Go Corel!
"just connect this to..."
BZZT.
Liberty.
I don't think Corel will ever open source their Office suite or any of their other apps for that matter. While, some people in the company may see the value in doing so, the stockholders would never allow it to happen. For one, the company could discover cold fusion tomorrow and still report a loss for the year. I don't think they're going to cut their main source of revenue just yet.
While, I think opening the code would be a great statement to make, I don't think them closing their doors shortly after would be.
"The words of the prophets are written on the Slashdot walls."
Hopefully they really mean it. I just got WP for Christmas (my wife saw it on a shelf, knows enough to look for the "Linux" word, and got it. How sweet!) I like it better than StarOffice. But it's got errors like crazy (I can't print from presentations, for example). I'd love it to be stable enough that she can use it, instead of having to call me to the computer everytime she needs to make a sign or something. And I'd really like to feel comfortable installing updated versions of Wine.
www.HearMySoulSpeak.com
They fuck you up, your mum and dad.
They fuck you up, your mum and dad.
They may not mean to, but they do.
Yes, Corel Linux was pretty bad. They tried building a slick install, and did not do too badly from that perspective. But it was inadequate for more "sophisticated" use, and there just isn't yet a big market for "nonsophisticated" Linux users.
They were selling it as product when they were effectively still beta-testing it.
It's fair to say that they needed something to sell; what they probably should have done was to make sure it included software that would lead to "callbacks."
As it stood, it was pretty easy to install, but the process of adding packages to make it really usable for anything leads to the users becoming knowledgeable enough not to need the crutch of "simple installation." (Add to which that about the only faintly daunting install still around is that of Debian. With many distribution makers working on "easy installs," it's hardly unique to Corel...)
This wouldn't require going after anything spectacularly prominent; I'm sure that throwing a few thousand dollars at some Windows shareware authors could get a few interesting applications ported.
Those would represent "strides" towards demonstrating that it might be worth spending more money on their software.
There's not the money in simply "making it easier," especially when other makers of distributions are trying to do the same.
If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.
I have a few points to make. First, Microsoft hasn't 'bailed out' of Corel. Their stock is just now registered as sellable by M$. Corel was planning on registering the stock as sellable ever since they got the $ from M$. M$ hasn't actually sold any of the stock yet. If they did, Corel's stock would no doubt tank. But then again, Corel's stock is low already, this really couldn't hurt that much. Corel will still have the $135 million (or whatever it was) in the bank. Oh, and the shares are still non-voting.
Second, Corel has been moving forward on spining off Linux for months. They haven't accelerated or anything; it was just anounced in this particular newsletter.
Third, IMHO spinning off Linux is good for the distribution. Corel's specialization is graphics products, maybe now office products too. To make a really good distribution (not that it's bad now...) they would have to give it more attention than they want to. And they prolly wouldn't do a good job of it even then.
A new Linux company could get veture capital. Corel doesn't quite qualify, at >10 years old. The company could make business deals with companies that wouldn't want to work with Corel, for whatever reason. And Corel could make business deals without hurting its Linux image.
And, not to mention, the new Linux company would prolly 'get' opensource. I hear the Linux developers talk about co-operation, I hear the management talk about competition. In a linux company, the open source thought mode would overpower the old closed-source thinking.
Yes, I know, as a Corel employee I'm fed from management... But I can think on my own.
(I'm pretty sure I'm not giving away any company secrets here... Oh, think of the karma I'm missing ;-) )
This is so dead on. They should have re-written WP and the Office Suite and graphics suite to run natively in Linux. Now that would have made linux users proud to have Corel on their side. This distro thing only rubbed the community the wrong way. Imagine where we might be if Corel had just focused on the app side of things.
They stuck me in an institution, said it was the only solution, to...protect me from the enemy, myself
...in Ottawa, just call Nortel. =0
- Toby
Has it even occured to you that there are children who read these posts? Keep the smut off of /.!
Knock, knock, human.
You're obviously an Ugly American, the kind that would complain (and would attempt to) drive on the right in the UK, speaks on-ly in-En-ga-lish in France and wonders why they're so damned rude, and asks for a cold beer.
Pay attention class, and repeat after me:
THERE'S MORE TO THE WORLD THAN AMERICA!
Why does there have to be a European distro, an Asian distro (or ten), an African distro, hell, a Latin American distro?
Simple, the world doesn't speak just one language!
Granted, most modern scientific texts' authoritative versions are in English, but a scant thirty years ago, you needed to know German to get a chemistry degree.
Most of the people (by number) on Earth speak a dialect of Chinese.
Europe is a plethora of linguistic traditions.
Not to mention the myriad character entry systems (read: keyboards) that are needed, I'm typing on a kb doubled-up for use with Greek. And the accentation! What a pain in the butt!
The reason different distros exist is because there are regional differences that smaller companies can more easily adapt to.
And remember: SuSE didn't 'bite it', they are the #1 Linux distro in Europe and probably in the top three worldwide.
Ruling The World, One Moron At A Time(tm)
"As Kosher As A Bacon-Cheeseburger"(tmp)
I used to be someone else. Now I'm someone better.
Real life is underrated.
How about that wanker Kiss The Blade? What the hell ever happened to that shmuck anyway?
I have a very simple solution to corel. Port every one of their apps to Linux. and I mean actually port them natively no wine,java,or other crap. write it in C or C++ and port them all. I dont want them for free. I want wordperfect suite (AS discreet apps no damned staroffice desktop junk) draw, etc.. I'll buy them, I'll use them.
I am sure there are thousands o people out there that feel the same way. WE need productivity software for linux that doesn't suck, use almost every resource the machine has, or is just a hack. (all java apps are hacks, come on.. the dang VM is slow enough to make a PIII-866 crawl now try and do a productivity app in that? only the insane try it.)
Linux needs real productivity apps now. Corel can get on the wagon and be the first, or the Open source projects will beat them to the pole again.
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
I don't think Corel should sink their money in to making their own distro, only to compete with all the other ones out there. Granted, there are some good things about it (I love anything Debian based ;-) but why don't they just throw their resources in to more useful areas like Word Perfect and such?
While I'm happy about all the work they put in to Wine, I think that if they actually migrated the program to something that's a little more linux friendly, then maybe it'd be worth grabbing. They have mature product on their hands and a brand name to boot, which could sway the businesses and home users looking for something familar. "Oh, I remember Word Perfect! I guess this linux thing can't be so bad." The problem is that WP looks and feels like ass on linux. If they actually used something like the Gtk or Qt then it'd be. If Corel sunk their resources in to the task of making their apps really really good under linux then maybe they'd do better. I mean, why compete in the distro wars when you're already so far out in front in terms of the apps you've got?
"I may not have morals, but I have standards."
"I may not have morals, but I have standards."
From the "Three Minutes With Burney" article:
, 00 .asp
.Net is, it's not mutually exclusive with Linux ."
.NET will assure the Microsoft lock-in by forcing out Apache and other servers. In Microsoft's embrace & extend vision, the only way the Web will be browsed is with Microsoft's servers and clients. .NET is the strategy to make port 80 theirs. As "hard-ball" (Ballmer) recently said:
.Net initiative, Microsoft will continue to protect any intellectual property that it embeds as objects in XML wrappers. We will have proprietary formats to protect our intellectual property..."
We did some back-of-the-envelope calculations, and making the appropriate acquisitions to fill in the holes would have cost us around $300 million."
--
http://www.pcworld.com/news/article/0,aid,40401
The "Back-of-the-envelope calculations" sounds like "I really didn't want to give Copland's Linux crap the time-of-day".
Burney didn't take the time to understand the goal.
When I first saw this newsletter, I thought "Maybe they are trying to breath some life into their Linux applications after telling everybody they were going to kill it". But, after reading Burney's comments, he has a much different vision. Their Linux division tries to put a nice spin on it, but it's too transparent. I think Burney would rather Linux just go away.
They're dumping their distribution on someone even less likely to make it profitable (like they did the Netwinder?).
Although they took a great deal of flack from the Linux community, Copland's aim was to broaden Linux into the less technically savvy market. There failure was their inability to partnerwith a name brand OEM (like Dell, Compaq, Gateway, etc...) who could address the general desktop user's desire for a shrink-wrapped, pre-installed, integrated system, with one-stop technical support.
They are keeping control of their apps, worsening the dis-integration.
From their announcement...
> The company's expanding vision for Linux includes providing customers with a bundled solution that minimizes the total cost of ownership and eliminates integration issues.
So, they are trying to create integrated Linux solutions?...
> To realize its Linux vision and to increase the value of its Linux equity for both customers and shareholders, Corel is actively pursuing opportunities to allow it to spin off the Linux Distribution element of its Linux division
..integrate by dis-integrating!
> while retaining an interest in the new prospective company. Corel will continue to develop brand name applications for the Linux operating system including WordPerfect Office for Linux and CorelDRAW for Linux.
I.e.: they didn't want to disclose their applications source to their new "partner"... and so their only remaining market will be the few techies who need a GUI word-processor or drawing program.
Java based Corel Draw, the Netwinder, an integrated desktop Linux distribution for non-techies. Three great ideas, all ahead of their time, all fouled up in the execution.
Excerpts from Burney's public statement...
"My belief is that people would be willing to pay, for lack of a better term, for an end-to-end solution."
Right on the money! A soup-to-nuts solution is the only way to un-root the Micro$oft desktop.
"...making the appropriate acquisitions to fill in the holes would have cost us around $300 million."
You don't understand. That knowledge is/was in-house, with those that put together your distribution. Adding and testing server applications would not have been THAT big of a leap. That $300M figure is totally bogus. The only partner you'd have needed was one of the big-name hardware vendors.
"So you end up making 15 calls and they're all pointing at each other"
That's what people do now with Micro$oft. You could have made a single-access-point of service, which could have destroyed the Micro$oft shrink-wrap paradigm.
Businesses spend a great deal on service. Ask Sun or IBM if service sells. For that matter, ask Maytag or Sears.
Large companies accounting, for service, usually charge 10X the wages of those who actively make the products. That's not all spent on Sysadmins and software upgrades, but a large amount is.
Small businesses can't get the service they need. They're left with integrating the software and hardware themselves, often with the help of an over-zealous teenager or someone in Management that has more productive things to do.
That's the niche Corel could have captured.
Service alone, like software alone, doesn't cut it. Soup-to-nuts: hardware (the entire network), software, and service does.
Like Sun, but atop open hardware and software, aimed at small business, legal, and medical.
The current Linux community doesn't need service: we're a "do it ourselves" lot. But, Corel shouldn't have been marketing to us.
"...there's no way [to make money] because you don't control your intellectual property."
It's the service, stupid.
Between the proprietary office apps and the service on an open hardware and software platform, Corel was uniquely positioned to be the first company to give Micro$oft true competition.
As long as you try to compete with Micro$oft on their own turf, you loose. You can make a better product at a better price, but they own the platform. They have, can, and will change the platform at-will to suit their application and competitive needs, leaving Corel always chasing their tail. As long as Corel is "just another Office suite" on the WinDoh's platform, Microsoft wins.
"And Corel wonders why the community never received them with open arms?" (a Quote from the previous slashdot article).
Screw the Linux community: that was not Corel's market. Redhat, SuSE, Debian, etc... can fill our needs. Corel's focus was on the average and business user -- where Linux needs to go.
"And a great thing about
Maybe that's what your Micro$oft handlers are telling you. With IE the only browser of relevance,
"In adopting Internet standards such as XML as part of its
He went on to obfuscate that statement with wanting to maintain "a certain level of interoperability", but he's a known spin-doctor, and we've seen what tricks he's pulled with "interoperability" in the past.
When I die, please cast my ashes upon Bill Gates -- for once, make him clean up after me!
will there finally be a great Office Suite for productivity, but it will have name recognition. I know people who still use WP. A push from the App side of things on both Windows and Linux could start a trend of moving to WP, and then to Linux. A lessoning of the dependency of MS to supply everyone everything.
They stuck me in an institution, said it was the only solution, to...protect me from the enemy, myself
I'm just making the point that, while there's a demand, is it ENOUGH of a demand to make any kind of money?
Apparently not.
Once, again, just my opinion. Perhaps you should switch to decaf? :-)
This sig is xenon coated, and will glow red when in the presence of aliens
Corel products suck, their Windows products suck and their Linux products suck, they're doomed. Oh maybe they should start developing for MAC OS, those poor MAC users don't have much applications to choose from after all so that'll be a sure bet.
I haven't played with the Unix versions of WordPerfect, but the Win32 versions all supports Word import/export beautifully. WP7 supports Word 2-95. WP8 supports Word 2-97. WP9 supports Word 2-2000.
Since WP for Linux is simply WP for Windows running on WINE, it should be able to import/export Word docs just fine.
The only probs I've had with Word export is that the occasional formatting error occurs (usually a misalignment of tab stops), but nothing major. This is with tables, images, and multiple fonts.
Cheers,
P_R
I have been trying to get Corel to stop sending me their unsolicited newsletter. Looks like I haven't quite gotten through to them. Amusingly, postmaster@corel.com bounces, and the address they suggest you write to if you feel this is in error *also* bounces.
My blog: http://www.seebs.net/log/ --- My iPhone/iPad app: http://www.seebs.net/seebsfrac/
Works in reverse, too, sometimes...
Need a Linux consultant in New Orleans?
However people have not begun converting in droves to linux. Corel is not in a position where it can afford to keep pouring money into this market hoping it will eventually take off. Even if it does, KDE and GNOME are getting much easier to use. So what will corel have a better chance selling: Just Another GUI Distro, or brand named applications that are recognized by people, like WordPerfect and CorelDraw? That's why their keeping the apps, and while not dumping the distro, they're not going to focus on it anymore.
Besides, if and when linux ever take off on the desktop, it's going to start in the corporate world. There, it's going to take a company that can provide integration solutions, support, the whole bit. Corel can't do that, and that's the type of company they're trying to spin off their OS in to.
----
http://www.msgeek.org/
Knowledge is power. Knowledge shared is power multiplied.
They have:
1. Entered Office suites market and failed, gave up on competing with MS
2. Created a Java based office suite, failed, bailed out.
3. Created a network computer (netwinder), failed, bailed out.
4. entered Linux distro market and apparently not yet succeeded.
Since Microsoft and Adobe have seriously kicked Corel's butt they have been looking for markets where they can avaoid direct competition of MS.
Moreover, their management apparently thought that once they bring a new breakthrough product, that will cure all of their other problems (sort of like SGI). It seems to me Corel has started too
many initeresting projects yet finished none of them, that's their real problem. Market does not like that.
If you are interesting in participating or observing a chat with Corel's President and CEO Derek Burney please join us at http://corelinvestorsclub.com this evening from 7 - 8 p.m. EST. You may also join via any IRC chat program, more information may be found at our site. Please feel free to pass this along to anyone who you believe would be interested.
6 months later and I only see a download version! To use the dowload version you need a decent web browser (the file manager does not cut it) and the deluxe box has all the toys to give people a good look at Linux as an alternative (from games demos to the IBM java tools).
However the Inflatable Tux rules, check out his bigger brother playing F1
Never underestimate the dark side of the Source