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Jedi == Religion In NZ
An unnamed correspondent writes: "It's census night tomorrow in New Zealand, and an email is doing the rounds asking all Star Wars fans to enter their
religion as JEDI :) Should be an interesting experiment to what sort of momentum email can make over just a couple of days. It will take a few months to garner the results though." As the story says, though, "this could land potential Jedi in hot water as those who record false information, don't fill out census forms, or destroy them, can be prosecuted."
"Do you seriously expect us to believe you're a Jedi? Do you know the kind of trouble you can get in for falsifyin....ggggghhhh"
"Minister, I find your lack of faith....disturbing."
Chas - The one, the only.
THANK GOD!!!
Chas - The one, the only.
THANK GOD!!!
Course, you can see what it looked like in a now multiply acadamied (well, nominated) Chinese film. Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon is entirely based on this...
-- Still waiting for the Nike endorsement
All hail Cowboy Neal: Glory be onto the Empire!
This message was encrypted with rot-26 cryptography.
As the story goes:
What's the point?
Is this supposed to be some sort of practical joke? It's just like a bunch of kids ordering 20 pizzas for a false address and laughing with their friends. "Ha ha - some dumbass is gonna have to pay for all those pizzas", but of course they never find out what happens because they're not there! To which the response "uh, let's not and say we did" usually makes the instigator feel like the dumbass.
Or is it to be rebellious?
Geek 1 (overly-excited): "Hey, let's say were JEDI!"
Geek 2 (grinning): "Yeah, we can really stick it to The Man. All those years of invading our privacy..."
Geek 1 (ready to piss his pants): "Oh my GOD! That would be SWEET! Just imagine the look on the clerk's face she has to enter it into the database!"
Geek 2 (suddenly serious): "I'm imagining it now: anarchy! The government would collapse! The country would be ours for the taking!"
Geek 1 (bouncing off the walls): "Let's send out a mass email! Everybody always does everything an email tells them to do, especially when breaking the chain will bring seven years of bad luck!"
The rest is history.
If only someone had been there to say "uh, lets not and say we did"...
I dunno... What do you wanna do?
In any event, Jedi seems like a better religion then any that Star Trek have come up with.
I've hit Karma 50 and gotten a Score:5, Troll... I win!
In Germany and Nazi-occupied countries, census data and Hollerith technology was used to very efficiently produce sorts on the populations; obviously, sorts based on "race" / religion were among the most common
Also, in the USA during WW II, census data and Hollerith technology were used to identify Japanese Americans who were to be interred.
I don't believe that there is a true need for religion to be listed among census data, and that only truly essential items should be incorporated into any census.
Sam Nitzberg sam@iamsam.com http://www.iamsam.com
How could they consider the Jedi thing "false information"? Reading your mind to prove you're actually Buddhist or something?
Why not? It has something like 2 million "followers"! :)
Blarf.
- A.P.
--
* CmdrTaco is an idiot.
"Remember when the U.S. had a drug problem, and then we declared a War On Drugs, and now you can't buy drugs anymore?"
Why do you think Liam Neeson's character in Episode 1 was named for one of those martial arts?
Vintage computer games and RPG books available. Email me if you're interested.
accept his fate, timothy will.
---
To see the political (representative) repercussions from the kiwi population declaring themselves Jedi. I'm glad they are aiming high.
I understand what you're saying, but The Force is probably the closest thing that my life comes to religion. I don't believe any of the others and the I have icons of the Jedi religion (read : action figures), I worship regularly (vhs), and I talk about it excitedly with my peers.
Therefore, where I asked, my answer might be the same. I'm a lot more Jedi than I am Christian or Muslim.
"Share your knowledge. It's a way to achieve immortality." -- Dalai Lama
You can't just put "Jedi", that's as meaningless as "Jehovist". You have to pick a sect, dammit!
Midichlorist - Old Republic conservative, based on solid scientific principles and prone to much sitting around looking grim and warning about Prophesies.
Immaculatist - Believer in the Immaculate Conception of Anakin Skywalker, marking the end of Midichlorianism rationalism and the beginning of a New Age of "anything goes" psuedo-mystical twaddle.
Intuitist - Imperial period Jedi, eschewing all knowledge of earlier abominations such as Midichlorians and Immaculate Conceptions; a much purer, simpler religion.
If you were blocking sigs, you wouldn't have to read this.
I refused to tell the US government more than how many people live in my place - even the short form census package had a large number of privacy act violations and highly deceptive material with it (like talking about how they've done a great job of protecting privacy of census data for the last 50 years, conveniently starting their self-congratulation period just a few years after they'd illegally given the US Army data on where to find Japanese-Americans to round up.) It was clearly done in bad faith. The US Constitutional provisions against self-incrimination make it easy to deal with the problem, and if they send census takers around to count, I'll ask them to repeat the Miranda warnings ("You have the right to remain silent" "OK, good. Bye!").
Bill Stewart
New Fast-Compression-only CPR http://preview.tinyurl.com/dy575ks
I tend to screw up the census in Australia when it happens every five years. I can't help it. I was born in the same week of August on which the census is usually taken in Australia. So some years, I'm 4 years older than the last census, and some years I'm 6 years older.
On two of the last three censuses, census night fell on my birthday. I wish I had taken the opportunity to make life interesting for the census staff by going out and getting drunk or something, then not coming home that night.
--
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing. - Edmund Burke
Many US states do something similar. For example, California has an initiative process that requires 5% or 8% of voters to sign the petition, depending on whether normal laws or the constitution are being updated. There are additional restrictions (beyond the percent of voters), such as neutral but useful editing by the Secretary of State, but the idea is basically the same.
(1) Article II, [section] 8:
(a) The initiative is the power of the electors to propose statutes and amendments to the Constitution and to adopt or reject them.
(b) An initiative measure may be proposed by presenting to the Secretary of State a petition that sets forth the text of the proposed statute or amendment to the Constitution and is certified to have been signed by electors equal in number to 5 percent in the case of a statute, and 8 percent in the case of an amendment to the Constitution, of the votes for all candidates for Governor at the last gubernatorial election.
(c) The Secretary of State shall then submit the measure at the next general election held at least 131 days after it qualifies or any special statewide election held prior to that general election. The Governor may call a special statewide election for the measure.
(d) An initiative measure embracing more than one subject may not be submitted to the electors or have any effect.
The shareholder is always right.
Do you not think that the Jedi are above the silliness of our political system. I wish a lot more people were. A lot of ridiculous things are done by toeing the party line, on both sides.
"Share your knowledge. It's a way to achieve immortality." -- Dalai Lama
Yes, it seems to be some kind of practical joke... So what? A large part of the population (a majority in some countries) does not believe in god, so "Jedi" seems to be as good as anything else. Furthermore a "religion" is something pretty vague and an "official" religion is just a religion who has enough adepts, so I do not see why "Jedi" would be somehow inferior to any other religion...
If it WERE a real religion, we'd probably all be dissing it as much as we are enjoying it now. I've done some reading up on the subject and the first thing that turned me off was the chastity involved.
"Share your knowledge. It's a way to achieve immortality." -- Dalai Lama
There are four simple rules:
- Who whom uses free software (esp unix oriented) is blessed.
- Who whom uses a Micro$oft product commits a sin.
- Help others with your Un*X and free software knowledge.
- All other beliefs/holydays/whatever will be those of whatever other religion you use/like/want.
You can be an Un*Xolog Atheus, Un*Xolog Christian, Un*Xolog musulman, whatever...But the cool part is when your PHB asks you to "edit this
So, Linux, *BSD, Un*X fans, at the next census write Un*Xology in the forms.
--
1% APY, No fees, Online Bank https://captl1.co/2uIErYq Don't let your $$$ sit in a no-interest acct.
No, it's an illustration of why a constitutional elected government works better than pure democracy.
A mandatory referendum with a 3% trigger is a mechanism that virtually guarantees that the majority will run roughshod over the rights of unpopular minorities. The general record of the Canadian Alliance Party implies that this was a feature, not a bug, in the proposal.
/.
/. If the government wants us to respect the law, it should set a better example.
I've seen the census statistics for the last hundred years on this question and it's actually really interesting reading, changing from 99% claiming some form of 'christian' through to the current day, when fewer than 50% do, and of those who do, around 80% are pretty vague about what that means.
My girlfriend always used to put "Aztec Sun-Worshiper" down on her census forms. I'm sure Jedi will slip through with a laugh or two from the collaters.
I'm afraid I'm a boring old atheist, so they won't bat an eyelid at that :-)
E-mail is proably the best way to spread stuff like this I can think of.
A few months ago in Canada we had a really good example. During our last election, Stockwell Day (leader of the Canadian Alliance Party) said that if his party formed the government they would enact legislation wich would put any petition wich was signed by 3% of the electorate (about 350,000 people) to a referendum.
The nice people at This Hour Has 22 Minutes, a TV show on CBC that does political satire, put a petition on the web. It stated "We demand that the government of Canada force Stockwell Day to change his first name to Doris."
By 9:30 the next morning I had at least 5 e-mails from friends asking me to go and sign the petition, mnay of which had been forwarded 4 or 5 times. I know that I also sent this on to at least 10 people my self. If I rember correctly the petition was at well over 350,000 names by that afternoon, and well over a million in 4 days. It was really funny, his party didn't win, thank god, but it would have been great to see him run away from that promise.
I don't think the people behind this idea will have any problems getting to word out, its' so easy to forward a message like this to a ton of people. I understand they only need 8000 to actually do it, and I hope they pull it off. Man that would be sweet.
Just as you can't say I practice Priest or Rabbi. Jedi is the the person who trains in the way of the force. If anything "The Force" would be your religion Since the Sith also train with the same "religion", just the darkside of it. I can see it now.. people reconize it as a religion and in EpIII the Sith can sue for religious persecution
Two people came to my house taking the census - the first was - well - eh - screwed up. It's nice to know that the Census ppl hire ex-crackheads.
But the funny thing was she took the long form and then quit her job sometime later. So some other lady came, who seemed to have it all together, but she took the short form.
And the whole time I'm thinking - some crackhead knows that I'm a Swiss Jew without a high school diploma or a job. What did she do with the info - sell it on the net?
Is this who is behind those 'find out anything about anyone' e-mails?
Get your Unix fortune now!
Facetious? Absolutely not!
God loved the world so much that He sent His son to come and die for all the sins of mankind.
But Herr Heisenberg, how does the electron know when I'm looking?
"Pinky, you've left the lens cap of your mind on again." - P&TB
"I can see my house from here!" - ST:
The Founders of the American Republic put into the Constitution that the government was to count people to allocate Congressional representation. It did not put in anything about the government tallying up how many toilets you have in your house, how far you commute to work, or any of the other stuff that market research experts should go get for themselves if they want it.
I got the 1990 long form. In retrospect, though I had never heard of Bill Clinton at the time, I managed to come up with some truly Clintonian "legally accurate" answers, e.g.:
Personally, I'm all in favor of "creative" answers to the nosy questions that the government really has no business asking./.
/. If the government wants us to respect the law, it should set a better example.
is that 'what your personal beliefs are' is NOT THE GOVERNMENTS, OR ANYONE ELSES BUSINESS unless you want to make them their business.
my senior year in high school a group of the more cynical students with whom I comisserated (sp?) and I were rather disheartened by the choices given as the song we were to march to to pick up our diploma's. It was the usual pop crap.
Realizing that we must seize the moment before some overly dramatic future marketing major totured us for one last time, we nominated star wars as a song... with some hefty promises, and a little ballot stuffing, we managed to emerge victorious. The song chosen to march to by the administration was The Imperial March... a personal favorite of mine...
Getting my diploma while picturing the administration as the Emporer and Darth made it almost enjoyable... till I realized the idiots probably wouldn't have made it beyond standard cannon fodder storm troopers... then I could barley contain myself.
Sitting through the mind numbing experience of a high school graduation was almost worthwhile....
Maybe this will make religious debate in NZ worthwhile? Definately couldn't hurt...
Moral of this story: It's always good to force your personal tastes on some on else before they do it to you.
Arrogance is Confidence which lacks integrity. -- me
What's the Jedi religion? Belief in a mystical paranormal "force" of good versus evil? With a "dark side" mirror-image, don't forget it! What's this "force" anyway?
Sorry, this ain't a religion, folks. A full on religion needs lots more than some vague outline of mysticism. Sure, mysticism plays a role, but there have to be some ways to connect that to the psychological makeups of the intended converts.
An effective religion has to engage people within their lives, offering ways to address their real issues, not just a bunch of supernatural garbage that they can't relate to (light sabers? where?).
George Lucas' myth-spinning Star Wars exploitation of mass love of recast Arthurian sword-and-sorcery tales doesn't begin to come up to the threshold of a religion. It's just a slick, hyped, and very crass commercial scam, complete with cheap molded plastic action figures in Kmart stores near you.
But someone thinks New Zealand will fall for it.
I've been to NZ. Nice clean place. Lots of level headed, interesting, and fun people live there. I don't think many of them will be signing up for a dumb Jedi "religion."
Besides, the NZ yobbos are all off grokking up the Lord of the Rings books (lips moving as they form the words), not realizing that their parents read them 30 years ago.
Don't mistake my attitude about NZ though. They have more productive folks than Britain. Reasons for this are large questons, though. Let's not go there right now.
Children practicing on fairy tales is appropriate, but when they grow up, they should attend to real issues, not obsess on mind-control abominations like Scientology, EST, Mindspring (that former "human potential" scam is now recast as a national ISP that is run by a Scientology member), vacant TV series, exploitive commercial retellings of old stories (like Star Wars and Star Trek too}.
I could go on, but I suspect you all get my drift.
Let me guess, you don't see what's so interesting about hacking, either.
Consider this a social hack. Which to some, is indistiguishable from a prank, such as putting a whoope cushion on someone's chair or putting a bucket of water on top of an ajar door. Though these things are not quite in the same league with managing to get the government of New Zealand to recognize a fictitious sci-fi knightly order as a religion.
Of course, Heinlein readers already turned a fictitious religion into a reality (temporarily anyway), so this one loses some originality points.
Terrorists can attack freedom, but only Congress can destroy it.
That's what I did. I was really hoping that the Census people would dispute it so that I could sell the story to the Weekly World News (US Government Discovers SPACE ALIEN Living In America!!).
/.
/. If the government wants us to respect the law, it should set a better example.
Actually, it blacks didn't count as 3/8s of a person. All other persons counted as 3/5s of a person, which meant any non-person person. Free Blacks were a full person, slave blacks were 3/5s. After the Civil War, the northern states freaked (hence reconstruction) when they realized that with all blacks counting as full persons, the south would become a dominate force in the House.
> Race shouldn't relly enter into the position at
> all. If the Constitution says anything about
> race, it's because at the time it was written,
> blacks only counted as 3/8 of a person.
Not quite; *slaves* counted as *3/5* of a person,
and are referred to only as "other Persons" (i.e.,
not free, indentured or Indians not taxed).
All slaves were black, but not all blacks were
slaves; the ones that weren't counted as a full
person. The only actual mention of a race in the
original Constitution was in fact Indians, who
didn't get to count at all.
Chris Mattern
And I suppose some Christian, Muslim, or Jew has a religion less worthy of scorn simply because it was made up a longer time ago?
Not saying religion is deserving of scorn, just that yours is rather misplaced.
Need a Python, C++, Unix, Linux develop
Salsaman.
I haven't decided on my ethnicity yet, I'll come up with something.
Ewok?
Seriously, I'm not sure I'd want to mislead the census takers; it was considered important enough to put in the US Constitution, but maybe people elsewhere take it less seriously. The government takes it seriously because it's in the Constitution; I take it seriously because it determines my congressional district.
--
I guess they will have to put away the fava beans and chiantia if they actually want to answer.
âoeWho knew something as harmless as willful ignorance could end up having real consequences?â
Well here in the US when I got the census forms to fill out I decided to be a little different and funny. When the field asked what race I was I said and individual =) Nothing wrong about that, because I wasn't lying. I know of at least 200 people I've convinced to fill out the next census with the race of Individual.
If Lucas does an Hubbard on this whole thing.... scientology with the force?! Actually, looking at the IMDB the word Jedi came from some zen/buddhist thing originally. Hmm. Has it all been a plan? Will there soon be malinourshed people at the skywalker ranch? then onto airports chanting "join us you will!"?!?!?
Bratwurst Orange the band that loves to sing to bacon.
when Push Comes to Shove
So long as they take the word of the person who gives the information. My airhead tenant, who took the long form, has me down as a white, atheist, computer programmer who rents a house. I am a Native American, Buddhist, computer network engineer, who owns the house she is living in. Anyone know if there is anyway to correct this after the fact?
I had A census guy come to my house while I was sleeping, so i invited him in and I laid back on my couch. He asked me all the questions and I'd answer them wrong because I had sleep giddiness.
:)
guy - "how many people are in your household"
me - "2, me and you"
Then I'd proceed to laugh at myself. It was fun
Some trivia from http://www.deadrabbit.org/movievault/starwars.htm
"Star Wars" was modeled after a Japanese movie called "Kakushi Toride No San Akunin". Obi Wan was modeled after a Samuri warrior from the movie, and R2-D2 and C-3PO were modelded after a few petty crooks chosen to help rescue the princess.
[...]
Jidai Geki is the Japanese term that Lucas derived Jedi from. Jidai Geki means period drama, or a Japanese soap opera. Lucas had heard the word while staying in Japan and liked it.
[...]
Chewbacca was modeled after Lucas' dog, Indianna. [PB: In "Indiana Jones 3", we know that Indy got his nickname form his dog Indiana.]
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Men with no respect for life must never be allowed to control the ultimate instruments of death.
GW Bu
Don't be an infidel. Every geek should join Open Source Religion (at SourceForge).
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Men with no respect for life must never be allowed to control the ultimate instruments of death.
GW Bu
I don't think the government could get away with listing any sort of religion as 'false information'--because if they do, they can be accused of religious persecution.
mov ax, 13h
int 10h
mov ax, 13h
int 10h
Thank you, Codeala... 48 posts went by before somebody pointed out that the Emperor has no clothes. If I had mod points to offer, I would be throwing a "+1, Insightful" your way.
Information wants to be anthropomorphized.
Answer (written): Yes
Answer (mental): Yes (it's called "North America")
Or: (For those that have large amounts of land)
Question: Do you live on more than 10 acres of land?
Answer (written): No
Answer (mental): No, about two square feet at a time. Except when I'm lying down
Rich
If it WERE a real religion, this wouldn't be so nearly satisfying to us geeks. It's the fact that it's completely fabricated that makes it so exquisite.
Then there's the sci-fi connection, what geek wouldn't want an element of everyone's favorite sci-fi flick as part of some country's official census results?
Simply wave your hand and say, "You have no need count my household."
--
Haleluyah!
People say the Church of Jedi is bad because we permit polygamy and such. But brother believe me, they're just denying the all-encompasing truth of The Force.
Can I get an 'amen?'
Have a Forceful day.
Local preist gives up Catholicism for Lent
I say we should do this in Australia, too.
;)
:)
Better yet, lets make JEDI an actual religion
Next time its census time in australia, someone remember to spread this 'round and make it on slashdot
D.
You can tell how powerful someone is by the magnitude of the crime they can commit and be able to get away with.
All religions are made up. They are all products of a human imagination. It doesn't make them any less valid IMHO, just a poor thing to use as a reference manual for the physical universe. They may make excellent moral and spiritual guides, but that's a totally different matter.
The alternative to my assertion would be deciding that one of them is true in some physical sense. That's kind of a silly basis when some random scientist can go and disprove your entire religion with a few experiments.
Need a Python, C++, Unix, Linux develop
At any rate, even though GL says it's just a fantasy thing, is sounds an awful lot like the currently popular so-called "New Age" spirituality.
From about.com
Let's look at that list for a minute and compare it to StarWars:
Spiritual exploration (The "Force") and Ben Kenobi as a spirit-guide
Advanced technologies - Death Star, AT ATs, X-wings, Personal Robots, Land Speeders, Light Sabres, robotic appendages
Multiculturalism - how much more multicultural can you get than the Galactic Senate?
and Speaking of the Galactic Senate - Global (universal) peace it's the home of 'just government and freedom for thousands of years'
ancient mysteries - What do you call Yoda and the whole study process to become a Jedi?
As far as 'religion' is concerned:
(I'll admit that it's definition #4), but that says: "A cause, a principle, or an activity pursued with zeal or conscientious devotion."
Star Wars embraces new age philosophy, and "Jedi" seems to meet the criteria for a reliigon (in my opinion, anyway.)
So, if you want to report your religion as Jedi, go ahead.
Regards,
Anomaly
BTW - there is a real, personal God, and He longs for relationship with you.
If you want to know more about Him, please contact me at tom_cooper at bigfoot dot com
But Herr Heisenberg, how does the electron know when I'm looking?
The US census questions asked for each member of the household "what race does he consider himself?"
So I asked my wife what race she consider herself, and checked of "white".
Then I thought about what race I consider myself, and checked off some variant of mixed, I forget which.
Then I asked my three-year-old son what race he considers himself. Then I asked him to spell it, which he did, and I dutifully wrote in "BRLZMB", just like he said. It's pronounced bwerrlich, I think.
You need to pay more attention.
I didn't claim that The Force was my religion, just that I felt more incommon with the ideals of it than that of Christianity or the rest of the organized religions.
I also didn't say anything about how often I "get out". I'm a club kid, I get out too often. It's almost detrimental.
Am I supposed to apologize for having thought of this? Am I to apologize for being a fan of these films?
"Share your knowledge. It's a way to achieve immortality." -- Dalai Lama
First of all, he wouldn't have to "run from it", forcing a name change on a citizen is not something the federal government has the power to do. They have practically unbounded power when they can convince the supreme court that what they do is necessary to running the state, but such arbitrary idiocy is not supported.
I think this was just a pack of idiots attacking a good idea because it came from a source they disliked. There are a lot of things wrong with the Canadian Alliance Party. That doesn't mean every idea they promote is a bad one.
"Oo, look: bad man say 'Ask people, do what they say.', so me know never ask people."
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those darn punch-hole voter cards... I've had my lifetime's share of pregnant chads....
It's really funny. And since only 8000 people need to right 'Jedi' to have an affect, it's probably going to happen.
Bow to Yoda!