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Printed Embedded Data GUIs
n7lyg writes: "Xerox PARC has come up with a way to embed data in printed images that involves using something called DataGlyphs. A DataGlyph is essentially an oblong pixel that takes the value of zero or one depending on whether it is printed angled to the left or right. Printed at sufficiently fine resolution, this is no different from ordinary offset printing effects using circular pixels, but when scanned by a computer allows recovery of arbitrary data embedded in the images or text of the printed page. An article in this month's IEEE Computer contains a lot of interesting applications of this technology, including a system to allow teachers to create printed tests and lab assignments with embedded DataGlyphs to allow automatic generation of graded and annotated results." I think we've done an article on this before, but I don't see it in the archives...
This reminds me of those childrens books which came with a small 'watermark' reading light pen that could read the right answers off the page. You would answer the question by filling A, B, C or D in the box and then you would wave the pen over the answer box and it would read the correct answer, thus you could test yourself. It never really cought on and the book/pen sets were quite expensive, but this seems to be targetted (at least partially) at this market. It could also have an application in barcodes that are more pleasant to the eye.
Wait till the geek kids figure out how to read the answers from the sucker! :)
YO! does anyone know what the fuck is up with chilliware?
i bought all 3 of their programs, and now they are just GONE!!!
no website, no phone, no email!1!!
wtf?
The last couple of years, it's been interesting to watch Xerox's downward spiral. Maybe what's left of PARC will be completely autonomous once the rest of Xerox finally goes around the bowl and down the hole. It's probably too late for PARC. It's a shame. Lots of good ideas came from there. Xerox management was too myopic to do anything with it.
Wansu, th' chinese sailor
Actually "printed embedded data on GUI things" have a name. They're called UPC symbols. They store information on food packaging. You scan them with a light pen. How many generations need to be taught the same technology we've had since 1970?
It works better if nobody knows you are using it. If people do find out, you're cooked to a large degree. It'd be much easier to just have a bar code with an encrypted version of the results. Given how little data are in the answers to a test, the encryption algorithm could effectively be the result of XOR'ing a hash of the passphrase. ;-)
sigs are a waste of space
I didn't really see how this would aid in automatic grading of tests or homework. If the kids have to use a computer & printer to generate the results, then why not transfer it electronically? If they are to use the good ole No. 2 pencil, why not just use 'fill in the dot' type forms?
the good ground has been paved over by suicidal maniacs
And they will have your fingerprints too. And if you lick a stamp on it, some of your DNA.
__
__
Men with no respect for life must never be allowed to control the ultimate instruments of death.
GW Bu
Isn't it old news? I remember reading about something very similar from Xerox about 5 years ago. What's new?
http://www.acooke.org
Okay, so it's like a barcode, or like those little static-pattern square things, or any other form of scannable printable data. Maybe it's really really high capacity printed data....
But umm, where'd the "embedded" and "GUI" come from? Were those just buzzword burps as you were trying to type "Printable Data"?
DataGlyphs are flexible in that they are robust, have a high data density, and can be cosmetically pleasing. Traditionally people consider (some) barcodes good for the former and (some) watermarks good for the latter.
Actually, we're quite robust. Read the article for details about synchronization in DataGlyphs. Redundancy is adjustable, and I can personally attest that DataGlyphs have survived my coffee spill. Haven't tried Guiness yet.
For starters, "Printed Embedded Data Graphical
User Interfaces." Read the article.
I work at Xerox PARC on this project, and am very happy to see all the interest. Have fun! I'm willing to take a stab at answering any questions posted under this comment.
Here I go with my conspiracy theories, but I'm sure that the NSA and CIA have been doing this kind of stuff for years.. but i'm sure the data isn't just hidden, but also encrypted :)
:(
What is nice about this is that instead of watermarking, the pixels are shaped differently. Watermarking doesn't scan right, but this does.. I don't really see how this can be considered new at all.. and certainly not patentable! But you never know what they will patent these days
Obvious concept with very little to no more realworld applications then a barcode has, only difference is that the untrained eye may not notice it's existance. What is good about this is, instead of putting an obvious and easily readable barcode on an identification card.. one can print the id card with glyphs, this isn't secure.. but it would prevent others from being able to read it without scanning it into a computer. (bar codes can be easily read by the trained eye). The identification card issue is brought up because there have been schools putting social security numbers on identification cards in barcode, or worse.. plain text..
speaking of plaintext info on identication cards, I wish they would either remove my social security number from my University id... or put encode it in a slightly more secure fashion!
It really got me to thinking about the implications of DataGlyphs. Suppose each of those survey forms is "pre-numbered" using DataGlyphs. Now they just need to tie the fact that you took the "blank" form from the top of the stack with your identity -- and poof the survey is no longer anonymous.
A lower-tech solution is to just write on a serial number in UV-fluorescent transparent ink. This stuff's been around for years.
Or laser-print it at stupid-DPI in flyspeck 3.
Or just remember the order in which people go into the room and surveys go into the slot.
Now, unless you're carding the people for other purposes or otherwise already have their ID, this will avail you nothing...
...this is no different from ordinary offset printing effects using circular pixels...
when printed, the dots that make up an image are typically referred to as.. um.. dots.
pixels are picture elements, usually on some kind of computer screen. dots of ink are just dots.
just so's you know...
- Entertaining Bits from the Ancient Kernel Tree
Their only advantage over other 2-D barcodes was supposed to be how they can masquerade as innocent grey background. That way you don't have to mess up your product's graphic layout with an unsightly bar-code symbol.
It must have sounded really "Hi-Tech" back then but checkers have enough trouble finding UPC symbols as it is, without hiding the things on purpose.
Whoopee... not.
Actually, paper will outlast most disks and tapes for storage purposes. Good paper and ink will last hundreds to THOUSANDS of years, while disks and tapes might make it to 100.
In this case, it is good for data density. Encode information two ways. Great for encryption, embedded data (like XML for paper) and steganography.
--
Charles E. Hill
Learning HOW to think is more important than learning WHAT to think.
It's a high-density barcode. That's it. Move along. Nothing to see here.
No, it's nothing like a Turing machine. A turning machine is a state machine which can read & write to a long tape of data. A better description is here.
other 2d bar codes are hideously ugly. Notice that
the use of 45 degree bars gives a uniform
grayscale look, regardless of runs of zeros and ones in the next.
Your idea sounds a bit like the Cauzin SoftStrip that made a splash, then tanked in the mid 80s.
I still own one.
---
satire, n: 1) witty language used to convey insults or scorn; 2) a form of humor lost on most slashdot moderators.
Ok, so they've created a pretty small barcode like scheme. So? Now you just have to be aware that bar codes can have this look (\/\/\/\/\///\\\/\/\/) rather than the usual vertical lines. Granted, they can be made smaller than Code39 or UPC codes, but they're still just bar codes.
_____________
I don't want free as in beer. I just want free beer.
ala the companion technique, allowing for emailable,
but not printable, subrosa material. see
http://home.earthlink.net/~retiarius
for further elucidation. embedding scientology
"scripture" within slashdot archives also comes
to mind...
But the whole point of this is that it doesn't destroy the image.
If you start fiddling with the colour, then the image will be corrupted by the data.
Advanced users are users too!
What if the individual bills had a unique number imprinted with this method, like a public key. Then the copier would only be able to duplicate the original code and could be picked up when multiple codes appeared too many times (kinda like Ultima Online).
"I'll take the red pill, no, blue. AAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH........"
"I'll take the red pill. No! Blue! AAAaaaahhhhhhhhh"
- Monty Python meets the Matrix
From what I understand, this sounds somewhat like a project that I had dreamed of around 8 years ago. Basically, my idea was to eventually create a system that archived my data on a sheet of paper to be scanned back in for recovery. (Regular home printers and scanners would do just fine.)
The initial testing stage was to simply compress and then uuencode (possibly with some adjustments to the character set) any random file, print it out, and then OCR it back in and do the deuuencoding. This can theoretically be done with common tools available for years now, but 1) I've never owned a scanner in my life 2) Any large amount of data would take up lots of paper, and would require a lot of work as well.
Eventually, I would move further towards my own designs: namely inventing an encoding scheme that would allow a lot of information to be saved on the paper, perhaps up to or exceeding a megabyte. This would, of course, also require new software to decipher the data that was encoded onto the paper.
I used to dream of a world where software developers shipped the latest version of their programs on a few sheets of paper rather than a floppy disk or CD-ROM...
(It also would occur to me how funny and ridiculous it would be to store one's encoded pr0n archives in a regular binder...)
Imagine the scenario - "send in this coupon and you will receive a free widget". You the consumer look at it, and say, "Hey, I don't have to give an account number or anything! They don't have any codes or anything! I could even give my work address, or a fake name, and they won't be able to tie it back to me!" Wrong, we have your data codes embedded IN OUR OWN LOGO. We know exactly who you are, we know what you respond to, and you better believe, you will get a ton more of this stuff if you do respond. We've been doing this for years... For real.
How is this different than having a serial number on the paper? They still have to do something external for them to tie it back to you. I would generally consider either one anonymous enough, unless they ask for a credit card or name or something, of course.
Using your sig line to advertise for friends is lame.
Looks like we have yet another way to distribute the DeCSS source code
But remember, you have to have the equipment to be able to print something like that. If you limit the access to that equipment, you limit the problem.
THIS SPACE FOR RENT
i suppose this could be used in conjunction with anti-forgery devices such as money-counterfeiting (sp?) and document verification as well. "it says its form the desk of the president" well, scan it for the digital signature" presto. i suppose with complex bits you could make it difficult to copy a digital signature embedded in paper. especially if its a rotating code of some kind. i see all sorts of applications for this beyond adding simple data. i don't see it working with art though as the art (original)would be damaged by the addition of the code.
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I will be the first to re take the SAT test with the answers inlayed into the question form. Dont mind those Coke Bottle Bottem Glasses, I need them to uhh .. read.
There are already watermarking technologies for hiding data in images, and if you just want to put machine-readable data on paper, there are 2D bar codes. The UNIBAR web site has a demo online bar code generator, so you can see what various types of bar codes look like. (Obligatory Slashdot Linux remark: UNIBAR's product runs under Linux.)
If instead of using it as only 1 or 0, why not have the color of the pixel represent a value too and allow for more combinations. Could store more data through different colors representing different meanings
Can you fax with Napster? :-)
segfaulteq@home.com
You can place meaningful data inside the pixels of a printed page? Is that what this story is about? That's quite a logical and cool way of data distribution. I would imagine that the technology would be fairly quick to find uses, one being as mention previously, anti forgery measures. I would imagine such technology however would be regulated fiarly quickly, especially devices capable of decoding, by governemts wanting to keep the technology for themselves, or cripple it so it's not really of huge use to us. Got to keep those terrorists from sending encoded messages now, dont we?
Now if we were to go scan existing pictures or print for code, what type of meaningful information would there be in... say a typical picture in Playboy?
"Old Rallydrivers never die - they just fail to book in on time"
________
Does anyone actually have a Java program designed to control air traffic, or for the operation of a nuclear facility?
I think we've done an article on this before, but I don't see it in the archives...
Let me be the first to congratulate you with a hearty handshake for being the first Slashdot editor to check the archives before posting! <grin>
The other thing I think I have archived achieves hiding data in an image file by subtly shifting the bits. Basically similar to a water mark, but for hiding binary data.
So while this is interesting, I'm hoping that they don't try for a patent or anything.
Check out the Vinny the Vampire comic strip
"It is a greater offense to steal men's labor, than their clothes"
Jeff works on the DataGlyph technology. I work on applications of it. See http://www.xerox.com/flowport for my application, which lets you put a sheet with DataGlyphs on your document, drop it in a copier, and get out a paper icon for the document (stored on a WebDAV or other network server). You put the paper icon back in, and press copy to get a copy, type an e-mail address to e-mail it, etc. It's like an electronic version of the paper document, but on paper. We call it a "Document Token". (There has been previous SlashDot discussion of Document Tokens and other applications of DataGlyphs, but I can't find it either).
We're also very interested in open standards, and participate in a variety of standards organizations on this and related technologys. For example I'm on the W3C XForms committee, designing the next generation of web forms, and paper is one of the new "devices" that is being targeted (along with voice, pdas, phones, etc.). Check it out and send your comments to the www-forms mailing list! As we said when XForms was launched:
If this becomes commonplace, then machines that can read it become commonplace and the government and anyone else just treats it like any other data medium.
Besides, how could they regulate it? All you'd need to use it is a very high-resolution printer.
I stole this sig from someone cleverer than me.
You would think there would be some limit to the number of times a single company could develop a really cool technology, only to waste it. If Xerox had played their cards right, every scanner, fax, copier, and printer manufacturer would be paying them royalties by now. DataGlyphs would be everywhere.
I first heard about DataGlyphs in this Wired story.
- Lossless copying - the document contains a URL with its source, so 10,000 generations of copying produce the exact same quality as the original.
- Document from a page - every page of the document contains the URL for the source, so having a page means being able to reproduce the entire document. This plays very well with version control software.
Of course to make these really work, you have to build it into copiers and printers and put them on the same network, so they can talk to each other. If only someone who makes printers and copiers had developed this ten years ago...Anybody with the idea, and good background background in error detecting and correcting codes, could have done this. While I consider this at least border-line to "sufficiently obvious", how long until this drops into public domain and anyone can use it? Information on the relevant laws and/or the exact dates involved are appreciated.
Paperdisk.com was doing this a while ago, but instead of slashes they used standard squares. Neat idea all the same. Not sure of practical use for most places as a real backup system, and too cumbersome for transporting data, imo. But neat nonetheless. Perhaps people could use this stuff in stationary, and embed company/personal info in the letterhead, scannable by their customers and clients.
creation science book
Slashdot covered a story about Printable Computers it coveres printing out motherboards, etc.. not just memmory storage.
------88-------- Sig? Sorry, I don't smoke.
IIRC, you can scan from any direction.
Furthermore, it is immune to part of the paper being damaged.
From what I read about this a year ago, you cold print data in a fine grained "gray" pattern on the background of the paper. The stuff printed on the paper, such as a document, 1040 Long Form, etc. would be what you're paying attention to. Not the pattern on the "safety paper".
I'll see your senator, and I'll raise you two judges.
The big thing I read into it a year ago when it was on Slashdot, was that it was a way to put data onto paper without the general population knowing about it.
When I read the Xerox article last year it seemed to work like this. The data is encoded into in a background pattern on the paper. Sort of like the safety paper your personal checks are printed on. If you look closely, it's not a solid color, but white paper with colored wavy lines. The data glyphs is similar. But instead of wavy lines is's a pattern of slashes and backslashes that the eye just picks up as a uniform color pattern. The data is encoded all over the page. It is immune to part of the paper being torn, spindled, stapled, printed over, vomited on, etc.
I'll see your senator, and I'll raise you two judges.
But what if they snail mailed you the survey?
What if they e-mailed it to you as PDF?
It doesnt' need to have your identity on the paper, just a serial number that ties it back.
I'll see your senator, and I'll raise you two judges.
Hey cool idea.
When you vote, you usually have to sign something that you voted. Now if you can just match up the order of signatures in the notebook with the order the blank ballots were removed from the stack, you can identify who voted for the bad guy and go re-educate them about how gravely mistaken they are.
I'll see your senator, and I'll raise you two judges.
Maybe they mailed you the survey?
Maybe you took it as part of a study, and they pay you $20. Maybe they can tie the order you took the forms off the blank stack to who you are?
Maybe you take an anonymous survey in a mall, but you have to sign a seperate "guest book", allowing them to tie the card you took with the order of your signature. But you then go into a small room with other people filling out the card, and when finished, drop it in the box as you exit.
There are other possibilities.
I'll see your senator, and I'll raise you two judges.
But have you ever looked at a page with DataGlyphs? They virtually disappear. You wouldn't even notice them if you weren't looking for them.
I'll see your senator, and I'll raise you two judges.
Are we willing to give up our freedom?
The majority doesn't seem to mind so far.
I'll see your senator, and I'll raise you two judges.
Hey You!
Yeah you!
Would you like to participate in our anonymous survey? Yeah, it's completely anonymous. You don't write down any personally identifiable information. Just take this printed page and answer the questions on it. Then anonymously drop it through the slot in the box over there.
Oh, don't worry that it asks lots of deeply personal questions. After all, this is an anonymous survey. It cannot be tied back to you.
BTW, yes, Slashdot did have a story on this about a year ago. It really got me to thinking about the implications of DataGlyphs. Suppose each of those survey forms is "pre-numbered" using DataGlyphs. Now they just need to tie the fact that you took the "blank" form from the top of the stack with your identity -- and poof the survey is no longer anonymous.
I'll see your senator, and I'll raise you two judges.
What are they going to do about someone sending one time padded messages in a sheet of text?
The solution is so simple it should be obvious. Why do you even ask such silly questions. Are you dense?
SImply require all printed material to be government approved. Problem solved. Now wasn't that easy? Think of the benefits in reduced terrorism.
I'll see your senator, and I'll raise you two judges.
Well, yeah, but every sort of way to encode data in a linear and discrete way is similar to a turing machine tape.
I don't think that there are any world shaking implications of being able to write executable code on a sheet of paper. :)
-
I've had enough abrasive sigs. Kittens are cute and fuzzy.
and it's been around for many years. A cool technology but not exactly news. Type "dataglyph" into Google to find out more.
Prepare to see the DeCSS code hidden within your next Linux-related document, or hacker magazine.
If you scan it upside down, are all the ones zeros, and vice versa?
Got friends?
"// this is the most hacked, evil, bastardized thing I've ever seen. kjb"
Ins't this tech similar (just larger scale) then the stuff embedded in some of the wired magazine ads ?. (Something beginning with D .. I don't have a wired mag here =)) ?
--
Jon - TheSpork
Remember the good ole days when computer magazines for the Commodore 64 used to have type-in games and other programs? IIRC, someone once proposed a type of bar & dot code that would be printed along the edges of the magazine and could be read in via a scanner thingy not unlike the Cue Cat (only larger due to mid 80's technology). And since the early 90's there have been various programs that allow you to print a dense dot pattern similar to UPS tracking labels, using an ordinary ink-jet or laser printer, and could be read in using a standard hand scanner. It was proposed that magazines could be distributed with programs without the need for a separate disk (of course, this was back in the days before multi-megabyte games and applications).
This link to the "article" pointed to a PDF. WTF?
Compute! did that for a while, I remember seeing some of the older issues at the local public library. I don't remember if it was just a single page or multiple pages. I'm going to have to take another look and check the dates.
Inheritance is the sincerest form of nepotism.
interesting applications of this technology, including a system to allow teachers to create prinnted tests and lab assignments with embedded DataGlyphs to allow automatic generation of graded and annotated results
There's a reason that most encryption and computer security measures are created in a way to suggest that you never, ever trust the client.
Bonus points to the kid who uses his Palm Pilot or TI-82 to read the answers embedded in his homework. I know I would have spent hours to outsmart the teacher's technology that otherwise could have been spent studying or doing the actual work.
Interesting technology, though...
And again and again and again...
Dude! Let's do it! For great justice!!
>> me vs. the end of the world
http://www.intacta.com/html/inta6000.htm
Taking stuff apart since 1969 (TM)
Someone with more experience please correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't this similar in some aspects to a Turing machine? And considering how flexible one of those is.. this could end up being some very useful technology. (Is technology the right word?)
Reality is indistinguishable from any sufficiently advanced fantasy.
Has there been another posting of this a while ago? I've known about this for about two or three years now, and have seen examples of it. It's really kinda neat, actually. You can have a shaded graphic at the top of a page that contains the data needed to convert the rest of the page into HTML when scanned in. Obviously, other implications of this will arise, and we may not like it so much. Use your imagination.
Hmm... I just thought of an interesting idea... You encode a MIDI file, or an MP3 on a piece of paper and it plays back when scanned in. Heh. What a way to distribute music, with a photocopier! Oh man, what will I think of next?
-- Liberalism is a mental disorder.
As I read this article, it seemed that I had heard of this sort of thing before. Here's a link:
5 93 651,00.html
http://www.zdnet.com/zdnn/stories/news/0,4586,2
I grant that this isn't embedded in a "gui", but there's not much gui-looking about a Xerox "X" that looks more like ASCII art.
---Any philosophy that can be put "in a nutshell" belongs there.---
"...a system to allow teachers to create prinnted tests and lab assignments with embedded DataGlyphs to allow automatic generation of graded and annotated results."
Yeah i'd like to see the goverment provide the printers for the schools needed to print at such a fine resolution... yeah, like that's gonna happen.
Besides, what are those damn teachers getting paid for? To throw stuff at kids from a text book and then let a machine design and grade their tests?
Is to uniquely mark up the paper that is used for 'anonymous' surveys. When you send back your response, it isn't anonymous anymore. They know who you are.
--jeff
ipv6 is my vpn
I thought Dr Dobbs (or maybe another magazine) in the late 80's or early 90's would embed their source code listings in the magazine with a similiar scheme and you could then download the source using a special reader. Seemed hokey at the time and it fizzled after about a year.
Life is like gravity. It sucks you down.
We could inbed it into real pictures now! :P I would think it may be a more secure way of sending around data (in the context of a place where nobody knows that the images etc. had a code in it to begin with).
"Never, never suspect the dreams within the dreams of dreaming children." ~The Amazon Quartet
BTW I realize that they were mainly talking about doing this to whole images rather than in text, but it says at sufficient resolution it looks like regular printer artifacts. I just figured putting it in text would be the next step, although all the whitespace would be a bit of a problem.
"Never, never suspect the dreams within the dreams of dreaming children." ~The Amazon Quartet
The US government is having a fit right now with the ease at which coded messages can be sent (supposedly by evil people everywhere) via the internet. What are they going to do about someone sending one time padded messages in a sheet of text? A love letter could really be a terrorist timeline. A letter from a soldier to his family could actually be a spy message intended for the 'other side.'
The US gov has already limited net encryption to 128 bits; will they step in and try to regulate this? I would think so...
"Never, never suspect the dreams within the dreams of dreaming children." ~The Amazon Quartet
One of the first programs I ever wrote when I was quite young on my Commodore 64 was a Basic program that randomly wrote "\" or "/" to the computer screen. I think I called it "maze". It was a wave of nastalgia when i saw the example gliff on the site :-) I even got tricky and allowed the user to input any characters to program for output. Because of the special graphic characters associated with each keyboard key, I made some somewhat nifty paterns... from a 10 year old's perspective.
[news for me, stuff that doesn't matter]
Using this system, we won't have to fret over ballots with dimpled, pregnant or hanging chads. Just put the ballot in the scanner to reveal its secret ID, look up the person who punched it, call them on the phone, and ask them what they intended.
when can we get a CueCat? *grin*
Some seem to have got the wrong idea. This is a way to add extra information into a printed page. For instance (taken from the pdf above) a physical blueprint could have extra information imbedded in it such as the pluming layout and the wiring information etc. Then when viewed under a Glyph-O-Scope (magic magnifier type device)the chosen extra information would be superimposed (aligned properly of course) and would move with the page.
It is not an encryption scheme. If you want to encrypt, you would do so before you encode.
If you try and add more depth to the encoding by adding colour to the scheme, you destroy the ability to have the message embedded in a full colour image.
Neat stuff. Check the pdf.
This is probably _slightly_ off-topic but...
I have read once, in my vast perusing of cryptography material, that back in WWI or WWII, a spy in Germany was sending messages out of there by encoding them in paintings. His method was by painting reeds in his pictures with different lengths - long for 1, short for 0. Fortunately for him, the Germans took a long time to figure this out. Unfortunately for him, they did figure it out.
Hope this is interesting.
Beware The Fox!
A new and interesting way to encode an illegal piece of software!
I work for Digimarc in the MediaBridge division. Digimarc MediaBridge tech provides watermarks for connecting printed media to the web, or if you prefer, launching and interacting with local applications. I know some folks here have already tried the product, but version 2.0 is out now, and it works quite a bit better. The download is free at http://www.digimarc.com/mediabridge. Does anybody know what applications Xerox has planned for their technology? It has been out for a while now, but I haven't seen any applications for it. This is an honest question, although I admit bias in favor of my employer. I read about the dataglyphs in a white paper that was at least a year old, but I was not sure what they were going for. Is it primarily anti-counterfeiting?