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Sony and AOL vs Microsoft
jadrien writes "As the war for the common denominator access platform continues, the only two players that scare Microsoft team up. This story on CNET news.com details some of the forthcoming collaborations, including keyboard, monitor, mouse, and mozilla." Yes thats right kids, AOL is coming to your PS/2.
But we know who will lose the fight.
Us, or more accurately "the consumer".
The Dreamcast isn't locked to a single ISP in hardware -- it's just that in Europe Sega never gave you the software to change the dialup settings. You *can* change the settings, even on a Euro DC, using US or Jap browser disks, and those settings are kept in flash RAM, so that certain PAL games can use whatever ISP you like. Phantasy Star Online is one such game...
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Actually, these types of things tend to work the other way around. Every time Microsoft has pointed out weaknesses in Linux, especially legitimate problems, the Linux community has rallied and corrected the problems. For example, the Mindcraft benchmarks were nothing more than Microsoft sponsored R&D for the Linux kernel team. If anything Mundie's inane have served as advertisements Linux. His most damaging criticisms have been rebuffed over and over again, by Linuxers and non-Linuxers alike.
This announcement only goes to show why it is that Microsoft's ambitions will be foiled in the long run. Microsoft may be the biggest software company on the planet, but they aren't big enough to take on the entire rest of the industry. They have back-stabbed so many of their allies that there is no one left to watch their back, and their competitors are showing that they are more than willing to cooperate if it means denying Microsoft control of yet another market. The OS and Office suite markets will become commodity markets eventually, and Microsoft is going to be hard pressed to find some other market that they can dominate as completely as they have dominated the desktop.
Yeah, but not AOL 6.0! Imagine all those new, nifty AOL features you're missing out on by using an old version, like . . . like . . . like . . . ummm . . . well, nevermind.
My PS/2 is a Model 55/SX from about 1988 or so. It has 4 meg of memory and runs at 16 MHz. It also powers my fishcam. When I got ahold of it it had Win3.1 on it, and might have even had AOL on it already (I don't recall...). So HA! My PS/2 already has AOL!
(Oh, wait. Maybe that isn't what he meant...)
Posted from the wireless couch.
There's also one more thing about Xbox: it has quite a bit more computing power than PlayStation 2. And Xbox will support higher-resolution projection TV's, including HDTV, which means surfing AOL on Xbox could be a more pleasant experience than on PS2.
Remember AOL has said it may offer AOL on other Net-compatible gaming consoles in the future. That means we may also see AOL on Xbox by this time next year.
Raymond in Mountain View, CA
Now M$ will be competing against a team of the premier content producer (AOL's portal service with its millions of subscribers, [Oh and Time-Warner too,] :-) and the premier play-platform producer (Sony, which also happens to be a class outfit which produces everything from games to movies to...)
Why waste cash a PC and all those headaches when a PS2 will do just fine and will never crash?
Look for M$ to start spitting in every direction: "Open Source is a communist plot" and "Buy our X-Box against Japanese imperialism." (Strike that last one. It would cut into OS Sales.)
Cute, with M$ reputation of delivering too little too late, its going to be a battle of the bank accounts. Who's got deeper pockets and a stabler revenue stream?
MSBPodcast.com The opinions expressed here are my own. If you don't like 'em... Think up your own stuff.
<FLAMBAIT like comment>
Just like cigarettes, get 'em hooked (on AOL) while young and those who do don't know better will stay hooked. </FLAMBAIT like comment>
Geez, I should get a consulting fee or something at least.
Slashdot -- News for Nerds, Business Plans for Corporations.
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Recursive: Adj. See Recursive.
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Mod up a post Rob doesn't like and you'll never mod again
Additional hardware including a hard-disk drive, liquid-crystal display (LCD), keyboard and mouse will be offered to help customers access the new features.
Note that the monitor being discussed is a special LCD monitor, and not a standard VGA hookup. Why? Because the PS2 is a DVD player, and the DVD Consortium has apparently dictated that DVD players aren't allowed to output an RGB signal, because Macrovision only works along a composite signal path.
Reservoir Zig
Well, given that Linux is already available for the PS2, it seems like a reasonable assumption. I can't see them licensing WinCE, what with one thing and another...
++ Say to Elrond "Hello.".
Elrond says "No.". Elrond gives you some lunch.
Since the PS/2 is a loss-leader in the hardware dept (the money is made on games) - I'm all for giving it basic internet functionality. Give me a wireless keyboard and mouse, an internet enabled PS/2, and a nice 50 inch HDTV, and I'll be cooking with grease!
That's what these companies realize. HDTV has monitor-like resolutions. And hell, why should I spend 2k for a 24 inch LCD (price pulled outta my ass - with left hand) when I can spend the same amount for a nice 50 inch 16:9 HDTV that will show me DVDs *and* be my computer monitor.
Hell, I could watch the National Kickball Tournament[1] on 1/2 of the screen and surf on the second 1/2. I'd be happier than pigs in mud.
[1] When was the last time you used "Kickball" in a sentence?
HI Mom!
Linux - Because Mommy taught me to Share.
while i agree that microsoft has done some really nasty stuff in the past, has aol done anything besides being huge? this isnt a troll, i really havent followed aol that much and i am wondering what it is that they have done to be qualified as evil?
use LaTeX? want an online reference manager that
-- john
that page seems to chronicle aol's lax security and some stuff about them getting cracked by people capable of social engineering. this implies incompetence, but hardly justifies the term evil.
use LaTeX? want an online reference manager that
-- john
AOL on your PS2 or winCE on your PS2?
AOL running under WinCE on your PS/2, of course.
Imagine what this could do if Sony opens up it's music IP for access over the PS/2. Of course there'd be no way to save the music (short of analog-recording from yer TV), but turning your game console into an on-demand jukebox might make it look pretty sweet to the consumer.
Does the PS/2 have an ethernet port option?
But I'd like to cut short any 'omigod, it's the corporate newworldorder supermegahyperconglomerate that's evil and will probably outlaw mp3, free speech, and free beer' talk. What, is Sony going to go with my local isp? Are they going to predispose their console to play well with Prodigy? Come on -- this just makes sense. For their box to compete with XBox, they need a standard, simple, widely-accepted, powerful brand as their internet access tool. AOL has like 90 % of the universe, probably including your mom, so condescend all you want, this was a no-brainer.
So, again, don't get me wrong, every time something like this happens, it feels a little dirty, but if you believe that computers and consoles are becoming more and more alike, you believe that AOL must partner with a console manufacturer. XBox is out of the question, cause of MSN, and the gamecube is out, because Nintendo doesn't play well with 3d parties. So Sony it is. This is just another OEM deal, like Dell or Gateway or anything else. It would have been hopelessly naive to suppose that consoles would remain immune to the AOL invasion just because they sit under our tvs -- they've got hard-drives(well, ok, maybe by end of year), they'll have modems (someday), they're fair game.
god is just pretend.
This deal between AOL and Sony looks like it will help both of them expand thier markets. However, I didn't see anything that said this is an exclusive agreement. If the XBox takes off, AOL will likely want to have AOL on the XBox as well.
The worst thing would be for AOL, the largest internet provider, and Sony, the largest game console company, teaming up to keep competitors out of the market.
The PS/2 was a line of computers from IBM back in the late 80's. Its distinguishing features were the MicroChannel bus and cable-free internal components. To avoid confusion, the abbreviation for PlayStation 2 is "PS2", not "PS/2".
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Lord Nimon
And the men who hold high places must be the ones who start
To mold a new reality... closer to the heart
MS won't have the overheads of collaboration to worry about
I'm not sure about that. From what I've read, there is a lot of infighting in the M$ ranks. Each group trys to out shine the others, and direct competition between product groups is not unusual.
Obviously the bad guy is the one who is winning... at least in this case.
"I don't need a compass to tell me which way the wind shines." - Mr. Furious, Mystery Men
That's an outright lie! Mozilla is not slow at all. Why on my 1.5 GHz Cryotech Athlon with 2Gb RAM and overclocked to 1.98 Ghz I notice no difference than any other browser. If you were a techie like me, you wouldn't fall for stupid adverts from Intel that says Pentium III will make your internet faster! That's impossible. Just remember to run the nightbuilds and you'll be allright.
(Posted anonymously because I'm scared about losing my karma point.)
- Steeltoe
http://www.debunkingskeptics.com/
"One World, one Web, one Program" - Microsoft promotional ad
The Anti-Blog
I wonder if you will ever be able to get rid of AOL from the ps2 once its being installed;)
Hey, with Mozilla I think we've finally found a piece of software that can push the PSX2 to it's limits.
*ducks*
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andy j.
Stupid Cheap Guitars
See, you're looking at three of the scariest companies out there. Sony and AOLTW make massive amounts of money off of being gigantic conflicts of interest, and Microsoft is... Microsoft. I honestly don't know which I find scarier.
(And no, I don't like Sony at all. I might buy a PlayStation2 from them, but I have no plans to ever buy, say, a Walkman again.)
/Brian
I still don't quite get WinCE on the Dreamcast anyway -- it seems it wasn't widely used, so did it have any benefits to Average Joe Dreamcast Hacker?
/Brian
That's true...when there's a specific definable problem and that problem actually exists.
Microsoft seems to have learned it's lesson with the Mindcraft benchmarks; be vauge, where possible turn black into white and white into black, and put a seed of doubt in places where there are facts that back them up.
Another point of the Consulting Times article is that a little focused propaganda can incite and distract attention from the real issues. That it takes some explaining to show that MS is pushing hooey just shows that they are having an impact. As a small example, we're not helping anyone here by writing and reading any of this!
In this case, IBM has the real potential to make Microsoft's networking efforts as influential as Banyan Vines. That IBM uses open source, Linux, free software, or any other method -- substantial or wholely illusion -- doesn't matter one hoot. That IBM is bold enough to try is enough of a threat to MS.
[ software as a commodity ... MS foiled in the long run ]
Software is a commodity, no doubt. I'd include in this many commercial programs. A quick check of the made-for-bargin-bin software section is all that is needed to verify this -- and it is not just games anymore. On the flip side, to call open/free software a commodity is absurd; it's 'sold' in a nearly infinite volume for largely the same 'unit cost'. Having said that, regaurding open/free software as a commodity still has practical utility.
If a wholesale switch from MS Office to free/open alternatives happened today, there would be some pain but that would largely go away within a year since there would be quite a few highly motivated people added to the existing open projects. That MS still can charge substantial amounts on a per-user basis is amazing and shows that the grip they have is quite strong. If MS didn't have a monopoly, they would not be able to charge what they do.
Because of that control, and the subsequent lowered interest in the alternatives, it will be well over a year before most companies that use MS apps will see the switch to alternatives as a possibility. In one year, quite a bit can change...so no, I don't see MS's failure in desktop apps or server software as a given.
A firewall can not protect you from yourself. Turn off what you do not need. Do not use the firewall to do your work.
I'd add IBM to the top of that list. After reading this article from Consulting Times I have a new perspective on the whole Mundie distraction.
In sum: MS doesn't care about 'Linux'. It cares about control and threats to that control.
By distracting the open source, free software, or Linux advocates it zaps strength from IBM's efforts to rally them to make stronger technology that MS doesn't control...and thus slows IBM's own efforts. MS needs some time to keep companies from moving away from Microsoft-based software, and to institute more MS-controled technologies such as .net.
Anything that can impact IBM's efforts to build open source or Linux support will also slow the efforts of HP, Compaq, Dell, and others that understand the business costs of the current Microsoft monopoly.
A firewall can not protect you from yourself. Turn off what you do not need. Do not use the firewall to do your work.
It all used to be so clear: a pc is a pc, and a game platform is a game platform. So now they take a game platform, add a mouse, a keyboard, a harddisk and a LCD display and hey presto! We've got a pc. Now as long as Microsoft is at battle with AOL we can be sure that Windows, Office and other Microsoft stuff will not be ported to the PS2
Another problem was that AOL's newsreader had some stupid maximum like 32K per message. If people didn't split their encoded binaries into these ridiculously small parts, much AOL flamage would ensue.
But, be honest. The only reason the Usenet problem "went away" was that nobody tells newbies about Usenet anymore. Which means that most AOL users don't even know it exists, so the rest of the world doesn't see them.
I was on AOL briefly in *1991*, and most of the users were complete morons then, depsite the fact the online world was considerably more obscure. I have no doubt that the AOL message boards are currently just as full of inarticulate posts as Usenet was during the endless september.
When I hear the word 'innovation', I reach for my pistol.
AOL. No question. WinCE on the Dreamcast was livable (most games never used it), but AOL's extensive tracking features? *groan*
- I don't care if they globalize against free speech. All my best free thoughts are done in my head.
The right market would have been GameCube.
The demographics for Playstation are older males, savvy about AOL's "features", who may occasionally use Instant Messenger. The demographics for GameCube are young males (and females) are actual fanatics of the "real" AOL (subscribers) who aren't willing to investigate any of AOL's privacy/tracking "features".
I would hedge my bet, also, that the AOL package will pretty much require the hard drive (and the ethernet card/modem) which is going to make this an expensive upgrade for some. Sony is in a pickle that they couldn't get both pieces of the hardware in the basic set (as Microsoft is doing -- we'll see how well that pans out). But they will probably have to offset the purchase with rebates which will require -- you guessed it -- long-term subscriptions to AOL.
No matter what way you slice it, AOL wins in some capacity. They should have gone for GameCube though for the kill.
- I don't care if they globalize against free speech. All my best free thoughts are done in my head.
Check out the Vinny the Vampire comic strip
"It is a greater offense to steal men's labor, than their clothes"
Where this is also advantagous is in creating a new route into the internet for loads of people that previously couldn't afford a full on PC.
I run a talker, uberworld.org, and I see lots of the newer people on the web on a daily basis. I reckon this will help a great deal.
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While I think it's good that someone is trying to compete with Microsoft, I'm a little concerned about how easily two of the largest corporate behemoths on the planet have formed a partnership.
Does anyone else think that this could be overtones to a possible merger? And does it scare the hell out of anyone that if it does?
The next Slashdot story will be ready soon, but subscribers can beat the rush and slashdot the links early!
I'm getting kinda tired of all the AOL bashing. You know who uses AOL? Clueless users who want to e-mail pictures of their kids to Granny and 13 year olds in chat rooms. They've made the software easy to use on purpose. I work tech support for a medium-sized ISP, and we've gotten a few users from AOL. And they were idiots. But ya know what? If they want to use a garbage front-end to a content controlled ISP, they have the right to choose that, or choose any other ISP if they so desire. Eighty percent of our customers think of computers as televisions with typewriters attached. When you or I want dialup, all we want are a fucking phone number, login, password and maybe DNS. These average Americans want to see a nicely integrated, easy to understand front-end. They want to see the AOL logo everywhere because it gives them confidence that they are connected through a famous major ISP. AOL versus *real* ISP is like apple pie versus tiramisu- AOL's American as shit, but tiramisu's better in many people's eyes. But 80 percent of people don't wanna try it because it's different and strange. They want the security that AOL *APPEARS* to provide. No pity for AOL users, and no love for AOL haters.
Hey Taco! Looks like you're using the "infinite monkeys and typewriters" scheme to generate Ask Slashdots again...
If all this should have a reason, we would be the last to know.
So Astoroth and Baphomet have finally ganged up on Lucifer !
This will be interesting in deed! Especially the Slashdot comments. The anti evil corporation fanatics will have an interesting time figuring out who is the bad guy in this fight.
Only to idiots, are orders laws.
-- Henning von Tresckow
MS will have their own console soon
MS will be able to avoid many teething problems by watching what AOL & Sony are doing and then copying them
MS won't have the overheads of collaboration to worry about
The hype surrounding X-box will mean a good user base of gamers (&& their families) to sell into
At least for awhile there though AOL was nice enough to pu the billing process almost completely on the client-side so paying the hourly fee became almost optional :).
..to see Slashdot users backing a proposal like this! AOL is a giant corporation which piggy-fucks just about any and everyone's machine it can. Sony is a consumer electronics dynsasty, who got lucky with the PSX, and is now hoping to rule with the PSX2. But, it runs Linux, so every things okay? Sweet mother mary of God what happened to sanity. Game consoles are perhaps the next generation of connected-computing. Through this new boxes, presumably half the cost of a PC, many home-users will view the world of the internet, and those the world in general. If AOL and Sony band together on this outing, you will begin to see the world's larget content whore providing systems for the world's largest profit vixen. In short, just another Microsoft with bigger balls, and squinty eyes. The fact remains it doesn't matter who has the monolopy, no one should have it. The GameCube is likely to remain a niche player, as was the N64 (Ninentdo is the Apple of game consoles), while the PSX2, despite repetitive gameplay, and various hardware issues, will likely just slightly lead in the Game Console war to be appearing at local theaters in 2002. However, with AOL now providing service to PSX2 first, and the some 4 million customers strong in adverts that can not be ignored so easily, Sony has positioned itself to push the PSX2 into the laps of consumers before the XBox hits the streets. Once you have 60% market saturation, you're as good as gold. If the XBox manages to survive it will only be because Microsoft can dump millions into the project without blinking an eye, until it survives, where other companies are forced to let go of unprofitable dogs, M$ can strive on them. So, at the end of 2002, we now have two vast monopolies controlling what about 4-10 million, see, and hear. Sweet merciful crap.
Sony is not crazy, or even stupid, for this venture. Micro$oft is out to try and conquer another market in their never ending quest to rule the universe. How many of us gamers are out there using Win9X purely for DirectX support? Sony is smart. They have realized that the Online market is not their Forte. So where does the intelligent Japaneese giant go when they need net support in the US? well, who makes the most money off the Internet in the US. You have a phone line? you can have AOL, thus if you have a PS2, you can connect. Microshaft already has the MSN, which they can tap into no problem. Sony is not going to MSN, so there is one other choice. Good luck Sony, it could suck, but then again, it could hurt them, but hey, gamers want PS2, who cares about the connectivity requirements? Are their people camping out for Xbox? we'll see