Slashdot Mirror
Interested In A US Linux For PS2?
Sony Computer Entertainment America writes "What is the interest level for a US release of a GNU/Linux Kit that works with the PlayStation 2?
Sony Computer Entertainment Inc (Japan) recently released a Beta test version of Linux for its PlayStation 2 Computer Entertainment System.
Currently, the PS2 Linux Kit is only available in Japan and only runs on a Japanese model of PlayStation 2 However, Sony Computer Entertainment America (SCEA) is considering the possibility of a US release of the kit. At this time, no decisions have been made as to whether to release, how much a US kit would cost or when it would be released.
SCEA wants to find out what the level of interest for a PS2 Linux Kit is in the US. You can visit their website to register your interest."
instead of one of the Dell/Toshiba/IBM/whatsoever corporate whore notebooks)
Yeah, as opposed to Sony, the small Indie startup.
As much as I heard from a Japanese programmer who bought this kit - yes, it's inside the Linux DVD..
You do not, however, get all the sources. Some of the things are under closed source license (like the Emotion driver, etc..)
Hetz (Heunique)
If I could get Linux for this thing, I could finally have the Ultimate Party Box. Just think:
Mmmm. Throw in broadband and start streaming music and doing massive multiplayer gaming... mmm.
For SCEA reps who may be reading this: Linux is how to ensure the PlayStation 2 becomes and stays the market leader, and those are the reasons why.
Don't think of it as a flame---it's more like an argument that does 3d6 fire damage
What about UK-based users? I'd pay for this. How about France, Germany, etc...
How likely is it they'll use the "Not enough demand in region x" argument, when there would be enough global demand?
I would rant on and on about global corporations using spurious geographical distinctions to shaft the user, but we've all got DVD players, so that'd be redundant.
This sig left unintentionally blank.
You might find a person or two who wants to play PS or PS2 games and also wants a linux box. That makes it more efficient than buying a PS2 for the games and a NIC for other stuff. Plus, people might want to try writing PS2 games, which is impossible on a PS2 without this or on a NIC.
"The stock PS2 doesn't have one. " Sure they do, it is carried on the game disk (except for the bootstrap in rom on the box) so that they can upgrade it as they go, just like on the psx.
Vermifax
Vermifax
Logout
How many peripherals will PS/2 be able to use under Linux, so as to make it "usable for something other than a hobby."
How strong is interest for the "Linux for Dreamcast" tinkering going on?
Will people pay $300 for a gaming console, $(x*100) for peripherals, and then $Y for a Linux kit, when they can get all that and more for $200 from a NIC (see www.thinknic.com )?
I'm not bashing the idea; certainly some of us here like to do things "because it's there," but what practical uses for end users and sales opportunities for Sony can come from this?
SlashSigTheorem: Humorous, Political, Critical, Constructive- If you have a
The playstation is currently really hard for small developers to support because the development stations are so expensive and it is difficult to port to from a Windows platform. Providing Linux for PS2 almost fixes this. Providing Linux with OpenGL drivers (and hopefully, a SDL port) completely rectifies the situation.
The X-Box is really attractive to small developers because it is a console where we can develop titles on regular PC workstations, then have a publisher (like Microsoft themselves) foot the minimal cost of the port if the game looks good. On PS2, the port is really expensive since the hardware is so different from a PC. With Linux and OpenGL support, I could develop on a Linux PC and Linux Playstation. I could also easily port PC Linux, Windows OpenGL, and Mac OpenGL/OSX apps to Playstation.
-magic
Blue Axion Studios
"The PS2 doesn't have enough dynamic storage or networking ability to make it into a nice PC-like or net appliance unit, does it?"
Nope. The thing only has 32 megs of RAM in it. It's built from the ground up as a machine to play non-networked 3D games. It does that amazingly well (GT3 is stunning). They left ports to bolt on hard drives and networking, but they're hardly the focus of the design. If you want to run Linux cheap, go buy an old PC. If you want cutting edge stand alond 3D games, buy a PS2.
-B
Okay, they released it for the Japan PS2. So get someone who got it to request the source, then port it.
(All non-trivial, but someone had to say it;)
Jesus was all right but his disciples were thick and ordinary. -John Lennon
I suppose I may as well start the inevitable thread...
With the Linux kernel and GNU utilities being released under the GPL, does anyone know if the source to the modifications Sony has made to them are available? Even if the US version of the PS2 "kit" never becomes a reality, having this source would probably help people independently port Linux to the machine.
"Intelligence is the ability to avoid doing work, yet getting the work done".
It's only software!
I disagree. There are many uses for this. One that comes to mind almost instantly is as an mp3 player. I can see this possibly being done in two ways.
First, if the PS2 is networked, all it needs to do is boot, and nfs mount the directory with the gigs and gigs of music on your desktop. From there, a simple gui would allow playing of music using the controller pad. Why Linux? It's got decent networking support, and it (hopefully) shouldn't be to difficult to port a player such as mpg123 over to the PS2.
Another alternative would be to burn a minimal kernel and interface software to a CD (or DVD), followed by as many mp3s as can fit on the disk. Essentially this should give you a bootable, playable mp3 disk for the PS2. I realize that this would probably require modification of the actual PS2 unit to recognize the burned disks, though. Again, Linux would be great for this since similar things have already been done for PCs, and development could be done on a regular PC using a cross compiler.
My point is, though, that just because it can run Linux doesn't mean that it should be turned into yet another desktop system or web server. Granted, the PS2 has enough horsepower that it probably *could* do these things, but I think there are many more uses for a powerful-yet-inexpensive kernel on these devices.
"Intelligence is the ability to avoid doing work, yet getting the work done".
It's only software!
By accident, a week ago, I clicked on a link on the right side of the main /. page (Happy Penguin, I think) that was labelled, "Falcon's Eye." I immediately thought, "yet another alpha version of an SDL game that will go nowhere."
Boy, was I wrong. It's a 3d rendered isometric dungeon crawler. I kept reading and:
It *is* Nethack.
I don't mean, "based on," I mean "is." It is a fork of the code. I immediately downloaded it and it is very polished. It even has a big intro, reminiscent of the games from the 486 days, only with better graphics.
I've been playing this a lot lately, and I even have Loki games I recently bought that I haven't even started playing yet.
My only issue is that it sometimes 'stops' when I enter a shop. At first I was dismayed and killing it, so I was about to start debugging it. Interestingly enough, the game continues just fine when I start strace'ing threads. Odd.
Everyone should go download this right now: http://falconseye.sourceforge.net/.
How has the Japanese one been received? What have people done with it? What can it do? (Were drivers for everything included?)
I know they sold out quick, but does it DO anything?
--
Charles E. Hill
Learning HOW to think is more important than learning WHAT to think.
This is just the sort of bastardization I hate. If you want to run Linux (I do (Run it that is.)), buy/build an f'ing computer. PS2's may be cheap, but by the time you've got a keyboard/mouse, etc, it just doesn't loook quite so attractive. Plus the onboad storage is so limited.
Actually, the Japanese version comes w/ a 40G Hard Drive, mouse, and keyboard (among other things).
"A mind is a terrible thing to taste."
This could be cool, but with the following considerations:
1- It needs to come with a supported keyboard and mouse, modem/broadband support, and have a desktop environment, so that I can actually DO something with it.
2- It damned well better support apt-get or something similar, because I am NOT going to try to compile a program and fill all of its dependencies just to screw with Linux on the PS2.
It would also help if it could do cool stuff out the box to begin with, such as Tivo like abilities, especially now that the PS2 hard drive is getting ready to ship. Of course, if this thing has net access people will be able to just code all that goodness for me to download.
Could you use the Japanese Linux kit on a US PS 2 if you had the right modchip? Or is it more substantial hardware differences than that?
There's 10 types of people in this world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
Everyone knows that Sony sells their console at a loss, so any investment in PS2's for commercial use would have Sony subsidizing part of it.
;-)
I'm thinking linux-based personal TV recorder ala TiVo with DVD built-in. Could be hot...
Wow great, that means Saddam actually might be able to make a supercomputer out of all those PS2s he allegedly purchased/purloined when they first came out in the States. Talk about making a beowulf cluster of those...
So far I've gotten all my Karma from telling people they are wrong... :)
Forget the slashdot effect, how about a clean and clear demographic picture of the slashdot crowd...
If I were an advertiser, I'd know where to pump ads...
Here are the requirements for my server/firewall/NAT box:
1. It should be relatively inexpensive.
2. It should not generate much noise. I do not want to be able to hear it running during quiet parts of movies I'm watching (Remember...apartment...my home theatre is in my home datacenter)
3. It should be small.
A PS2 with Linux fits these requirements. (So would a hacked Tivo, which is another possibility, but I'd like to avoid hardware hacking)
http://www.ps2linux.com/images/pv/screenshot.jpg
I think the idea of having a AV centric computer is a plus. Having actual vendor support for getting to the GFX chipset is a big plus. I like the idea of having a single machine on my coffee table I can use for Gaming and Surfing. Of course I have a 110 inch HDTV projector, so that helps. But I think as more and more people get DTVs the more useful something like this will be.
But that's just my $.02
After all, once a PS2 gets obsoleted by the PS3, it becomes an abandoned platform and supporting those kinds of platforms has been one of the strengths of the open source and free software movements.
Curmudgeon Gamer: Not happy
These can be ported to the PS2 proper, without Linux, using the usual PS2 SDK.
Working toward a usable PDA environment in the spirit of Newton OS: Dynapad
and with the playstation's superior graphics, nethack could be fully rendered in 3d and i can live my dream of being chased through a dungeon by a huge 3d rendered ampersand.
when religion is no longer the opiate of the masses, governments will resort to real opiates.
No, not in the pr0n sense (although if you had it hooked up to a 31" tv that streaming amsterdam feed would look pretty good) but think for the kids. The may very well already have a TV. If they have a TV they probably have some sort of game system. Now they want their own computer (kids these days, when I was their age we didn't have these PCs at home... blah blah blah) you can spend an extra $200 or whatever and give them a hard drive, keyboard, and mouse to hook to their TV. Load up StarOffice (or whatever flavor you like) and they are set to go. This sounds like a good idea for computer savvy families who's kids already have tv in their rooms.
Besides all that, it would give the rest of us (possibly) a chance to do some programming for the motion engine. That would be fun.
Politics, Culture, Food?
No kidding. You wouldn't believe the number of hits my MP3.com page gets every time I post to slashdot, because of the .sig!
If they could sell a version of Linux with web, email, IM, etc. capabilities then we could abandon the bulky desktop machines. For the average user who just uses the web and email, the PS2 could be the true replacement for the PC. Of course, I would never get rid of my PC...but I don't think I'm the average user. ;o)
Hey!
I just got a DOS prompt on my fridge!
Not that its useful, but its something to do!
Next, I'm gonna give it an IP!!
Moderators, this is very metaphoric cynism, and it is on topic. If you don't understand, just skip it.
--
Good quote, too many chars. Seriously, the slashdot 120 char limit sucks!
If you go the page now, view the results of the survey, then repeatedly hit reload on your browser, you can see a real live slashdot effect.... one submission per second (approx). Very neat!!
"Free beer tends to lead to free speech"
Sam ported SDL to the PS2 graphics chip not too long ago. The code is in CVS.
:)
Anyone up for porting Mesa?
-John
I am in favor of running linux in cheaper and faster platforms then a monolithic pc. I would love to trash my pc and get a cheap console with a real monitor outlet and USB keyboard/mouse support. The monitor port issue is the only problem. A firewire one or a standard pc monitor output plug would suffice. I believe if Microsoft would port ms encharta and ms office to the xbox it would finally solve the problem of getting a computer into every home. Its the cost factor and the fact that pc's are designed to run boring bussiness apps like office. If you have no use of taking work home then you don't need a pc.
A ps/2 with linux would change this.
But in order for Sony to be successfull it needs to make their ps/2's easier to program with a standard software platform. If they wrote some mesa drivers and include some custom gcc compilers then it would benefit Sony greatly. Developers are more fimiliar with Opengl and linux/unix libraries and could help write games for the ps/2. Sony would only need to write a good video driver and a version of gcc. The reason why the xbox is getting popular is not because its agood machine infact its cpu is alot slower then the ps/2, but it will take the lead because of devlopers. You can download wince emulation for free for w2k. Also many game developers are more familiar with directx then Opengl or some proprietary library the ps/2 uses. Apple learned to accept opengl to survive and Sony needs to do this and support it in ps/2-Linux.
Sony needs to do this not to help consumers run linux apps but to accelerate ps/2 development before Microsoft accelerates its xbox platform by its windows and vstudio monopoly.
Perhaps Sony can create a special version of linux that loads itself automatically and can be scripted to run the linux game or app on the same cd. This way we can develop it in linux and have linux run automatically when the game loads up and not need worry about how to load linux first then the game second. My only concern is the lousy 8 megs of ram! This is the 21 century! The version of linux would need to be a small micro version of striped with everything but libraries for the game to use. Remember that the games need to share the 8 megs of ram as well. We would need to have it under 1 meg since even 8 for a game is way too small. Sony probably had to do this due to the cost of rambus ram. Smart move sony. The xbox would be much easier to port linux to sadly enough. If we only port linux to the xbox then the arguement on why to do game development on linux is dead.
http://saveie6.com/
I see your point... I guess its all about how you think about it. PCs and PS2s both have the components that (at least as far as I'm concerned) make up a computer. CPU, memory, I/O. While there is the argument that a PS2 was designed for only one task (games) and isn't very good at things that a 'computer' is good it, one could also argue that the PC wasn't designed for games (more for office work) and has evolved into a game machine (over many many years).
... I don't know if I see the point of it either >:D
I should also remind you that a computer is also defined by the presence or absence of an operating system
Another good point... but I tend to think of a computer more in terms of the hardware than the software. In this case, if you load the same software (Linux) on a PS2 and a PC, is the PC still a computer and the PS2 still a game machine?
And then again, On the other hand PS2+Linux, well, I don't see the interest of the thing
Geek: SAH!
SONY Overlord:Yes?
Geek: I have or new websevers up and running!
SONY Overlord:Excellent. Now, how can we test to se if the new configuration can handel the heavy traffic....Hmmm....
Geek: Porn site! Nothing attracts web hits like p0rn!
SONY Overlord:No, HR would have a fit. Perhaps we can lure those open source people to slashdot us wih empty promises and manipulative target marketing... Geek:SAH yes SAH!
Many people seem to have no knowledge of what the PS2 Linux kit comes with. When you buy it it's not just the distro. The Japanese version had a USB Keyboard & Mouse, a 40GB external HDD(the original Japanese unit didn't have an internal hard drive bay like the US PS2) the software on a DVD and a VGA output cable. Hopefully that clears up some folks objections/questions.
If Linux for PSX is to be sold, sell it on the web and don't avertise it.
Burn Hollywood Burn
In case you're interested the total "Yes" votes was a little more than 200 after I voted.
Think about this for a moment. Who are the primary targets of Video Game consoles? I would think young kids. There was this article on slashdot the other day that talked about how video games can be beneficial to young kids as it teaches them coordination, problem solving, and allows them to imagine and fantasize. What if at the same time we were also teaching them how to use the Linux OS?
:). I think Sony should go for it, and perhaps include as a manual a small primer on Linux to get people started. Though I never read a manual when I was young and figured out DOS just fine, so I imagine kids will do the same. Then when the kids figure out the system, they can teach there parents, not only how to play games, but how the OS works. Could be a good way to expand the community.
How great a day would that be? From a young age, kids will use the Linux OS and teach themselves, without knowing it. Most kids would want to play with the system and see how it works. Instead of teaching them how to use GUI only, we can show them the command prompt. Kids can, and will, teach themselves how to use the system. If we get into networking, the kids can learn about root and how to set up an effective network. Yes, these kids *can* imagine a cluster of these machines, and they just might try it.
For us slightly older folks, I think we would enjoy this system. It would be cool if I get my choice of distributions too
Lawrence Lessig is my personal hero.
Sony and Sun signed a big deal a while ago to put Java on the PS2. Here's the press release.
www.lucernesys.comHorizon: Calendar-based personal finance
D - M - C - A
If god had intended you to be naked, you would have been born that way.
is obviously to run MAME, snes9x, etc. with PS2 controllers. You would have some real bragging rights to have all the old arcade games ever made, all the nes games, all the snes games, etc. etc. etc. all on your ps2.
--
--
WHO ATE MY BREAKFAST PANTS?
A linux for Playstation would actually be a perfect solution for third world countries as my own. If anything, it would actually prove that cheaper PCs are possible to make...
I see two interesting possibilities for home use. I want to know what you think:
1. Cheap rendering machines. I'll admit that I don't know much about hardware, but do you think there is possibily a way to make these machines cheap rendering farms? Maybe not only software rendering to frames, but ways for users to create their own rendered-on-the-fly creations, like maybe a very-poor-man's VR system?
2. Home server uses. Possibily ports of Apache and other Linux staples that allows more self-hosting of web sites and streaming media. (Real democracy of video and audio content... home broadcasting beyond webcams.)
3. Hardcore Internet Telephony. Home use of telepresence tech. House to house video conferencing.
4. Home holography. Holographic phones like in Wild Palms. I'm really just kidding... but with enough graphical power this could be an eventual possibility.
I would love to see high end graphical hardware enter the home and actually be controlled by interested users/hackers instead of a small number of game publishers. I think it would be an excellent development.
"Yes.. no matter what the culture, folk dancing is stupid." -MST3K