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American Solar Challenge Completed: Blue Went
s20451 writes: "The American Solar Challenge solar car race wrapped up yesterday in Claremont, California, with the University of Michigan winning.
According to this article in the Globe and Mail, two Canadian teams finished in the top five: Waterloo and Queen's, finishing third and fourth, respectively. Go Canada!"
I quite disagree, everything is nuclear powered. If it was not for the big bang there would be no Indy 500. So as you see nuclear must be the way to go. (The sun is also nuclear powered so if it was not for fusion, and more exotic physics ...)
This logic is quite amusing and incorrect.
IANAG geologist, but as I recall oil was not created by fossilization of dinosaurs. At least it is possible to have oil (hydrocarbons) created without animal remains like in molecular clouds. Although most carbon comes from stars and not big bang, so almost everything was a star at one point or another.
Truly amazing that if it was a coordinated effort, they would get it the same every time. You'd almost be led to think there was a way of directly copying words like these , and for lack of a better term, pasting them somewhere new, with no loss of quality.
It is becomming strangely apparent to some scientists THIS YEAR that petroleum may be created NOT FROM DEAD PLANTS but from a bacteriological process deep deep underground. you heard of oil-eating bacterium? well this is the opposite kind-of and is similar to the many types of life that reproduce and live and thrive from geothermal inorganic energy sources such as those under the ocean near volcanic vents.
the sun is old tech.
naturally one needs to decide what life is and isnt. prions and virii are considerred non-life, but bacteria is considerred life and some bacteria live without any benefit of the sun and do so on food sources not created from OUR current sun.
I admit this petroleum thing is a shocker.... but it has some support and the mind numbing stupefying depths that oil is being found beneath granite is one reason to wonder.
i wonder. but if true.... then the Indy 500 is not a indirect solar car race.
I love Canada as much as the next person, but the good old Americans at The UMR Solar Car Team finished only 80 minutes behind big blue in a car cheaper than Waterloo's, and God only knows how much cheaper than UM's. More bragging on UMR: Their array probablly produced 25 percent less power than UM's, and they lost by like 2% in terms of time. But I'm not bitter. Watch for UMR in World Solar Challenge...they'll have a pimpier array and be ready to beat some blue ass.
Can someone explain just how you do research on solar power in a place where the sun don't shine?
I worked with one of the teams on the design. A large portion of the cash went toward the solar array.. somewhere over $150,000. The battery arrays (top-end lithium polymer at 108V) also cost $100,000 or so. Layup on the 8-layer carbon composite shell was quite expensive. The framing was done out of cromoly steel tubing because we decided Titanium would be too expensive and hard to work with. The motor and controller were somewhere in the tens of thousands as well. All the electronics were designed and built in-house. Half a dozen microcontrollers using a dual-indipendent serial bus for redundency, etc... all designed in-house. We even milled the PCBs. =-) Our car had a remote tracking system. A wireless modem sending full telemetry at all times. Pretty cool. =-) Oh yeah... the paint job would run a cool $5000 too =-) pretty cool too look at. If we were to bill-out the labor for the car, it would run about $2 million+ I think. heh Too bad we didn't place... *sigh*
One would think that the intelligent players would already be expanding their business beyond the dead dinosaur fuel industry into alternative fuels. There's no reason the big fuel makers can't also dominate the production of alternative energy as well. If anything, they're the ones who have the know-how and the backing to implement such a massive widescale infrastructure upgrade. Alternative cars will NOT be feasible for Joe Average Consumer until there is a fueling station on everything block like there is today with gasoline and it takes less than 5 minutes to refuel. That means no sitting overnight while you tricklecharge your 60HP Rice Rocketmobile and that means not having to drive 30 miles away to fuel up your eco-geek car because they're the only ones that sell Absurdoline on your metropolitan area.
Riiiiiight? [something about voices]
No! this is from Left field. Get it? Left field! HA!
~^~~^~^^~~^
You worship Clinton like an intern....[shudder]
He would have pulled the same crap going on in Germany. He would have supported Kyoto in speach and even denounced those who didn't follow it, just like you said.
But what you missed is that he would then turn around and get rid of every "always been running, never had a problem and never had a problem with waste storage" nuclear plant.
Clinton loved maneuvers like that where he could say one thing and do another, and still look like the good guy. The man lived in, and helped others live in a fool's paradise. Sorry you had to come back to the real world, it doesn't look like you are taking it very well.
~^~~^~^^~~^
never had a problem as in...
Anyone ever been injured by it?
Any vegitation been harmed?
A permanent place needs to be found that is a problem, but so far there hasn't been a problem.
Now they have the problem of how to keep their agreement with the Kyoto achords. But in a fools paradise it is very logical, getting rid of all those bad plants. Indeed it is a success! But how are they going to make power and keep their agreement?
~^~~^~^^~~^
...people would realize that this post was no where near insightful.
We read a post where people are spending lots of money to expand this and other forms of clean energy. The winning car was $1M with grants from major oil companies and car componies! Thats a lot of money for a car that will only take a one way trip and will never break 2k miles.
And then he writes as if speaking to a world ignorant to this he wishes people would relize we could expand on this and other forms of clean energy... And gets moderated up for it?
Many other well informed posts actually discuss the practicality and requirements of this and other clean technologies. They are informative, insightful and educational. In the interest of real science Read them, this is mearly a fool looking for a paradise.
~^~~^~^^~~^
Not a hippy, just a cynic
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Who are we kidding? As long as oil companies have the power and money that they do, alternative power sources will never come into their own. Think what would happen if suddenly a new technology became available and oil wasn't necessary anymore. Many *major* companies would find themselves in economic turmoil and that isn't something that those companies are ready to have happen just yet.
No matter how much better solar power, battery power, or natural gas power is, it's just not going to become prominent until some of the big players are good and ready for it to happen.
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The fact is that fossil fuels and our current internal combustion engines are so inefficient that the big oil companies know that they'll be able to keep selling us lots of their product.
If we're talking solar or battery power, what kind of hold do they have on the consumer? Certainly not the perpetual one they do now, with our incredible dependence on gasoline and oil. Once the battery car is bought, or the house is outfitted with solar panels, the major corporation's job is over.
There's not even a remotely similar chance for recurring revenue in more efficient energy sources. And when you're all about making money, that's the bottom line.
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Of course the Mop and Pail, er Globe and Mail have details on Queens, typical. Oh and who did the CBC interview all race? Queens.
Enough of that, good job guys and gals, you deserve a few drinks at the Bomber for that race! ;-)
Gordo
Waterloo ENG 01
Not if you listen to my Lecturer at University
Fuel cells are heavy in weight at the moment, and he argues that it is more efficient to burn the hydrogen in a combustion engine (note must be modified to gain extra efficiencies). Unfortunately I can't find to much information on his research, apart from link below
Still part of the problem is storing the hydrogen, as you need very heavy gas containers (heavier than your LPG tanks). But research is being done in storing the hydrogen in a phosphorous material to try and make system lighter and safer.
I am more interested in using Flywheels, as the are making flywheels that can store a crap load of energy per unit weight. You double speed you quadruple energy stored. Also having flywheels that can spin for a year, without being recharged. Also there is some rapid recharge times available for Flywheels. As new stronger materials become available the energy storage per unit weight will increase even more.
The problem with flywheels in car uses is that going over a pot hole could stuff the bearings, but they are overcoming this. The other problem is if the flywheel disintegrates, it could cause some big issues, but using new materials the will give properties that wont lead to total failure.
References:
Link EV batteries 1
Link EV batteries 2
Research into Hydrogen Power Car - Combustion
Way to go UMR!
Yes, but that $2 Million was all raised by student fundraising efforts. It all came from private industry sponsors- mostly automotive companies and automotive suppliers. It was a moumental task in itself to raise that much money.
And if you're a regular slashdot reader then you're well aware of the shortage of electricity in the US, that's probably their main reason for objecting to the Kyoto protocol.
There is a good story on CBS about power companies in California holding back power to raise prices.(I submitted it but it was rejected)
Trolling is a art,
And I suppose you don't notice Dick Cheney's hand up Bush's ass.
Bush is the goatse.cx guy?
:)Trolling is a art,
I bet most of that went into top-of-the-line solar cells.
The good thing about races like this is that effort is put into designing the very best cells possible, and a side effect is (eventually, we hope) better solar cells available to the community market.
A major advance was made (the so called 'green cells' in Australia for the Australian solar challenge a few years ago).
A good resource on PV cells (notice my Australian bias!) is http://acre.murdoch.edu.au/refiles/pv/text.html.
"There's no reason the big fuel makers can't also dominate the production of alternative energy as well."
Oh, they will. But what's the hurry? There's still plenty of profit in petroleum.
Congrats to everyone on the U-M Solar Car team!
Hail! Hail! to Michigan, the Leaders and Best!
---- Dave
The thing is, burning oil is silly - you yourself give examples of much better uses it can be put to - making plastics and paints, for example.
It has been repeatedly demonstrated over the past 100 years that anytime anyone even claims to have invented anything that would effectively eliminate energy scarcity, that person is "disappeared".
Choice of masters is not freedom.
What does "Blue Went" mean?
--
Mod up a post Rob doesn't like and you'll never mod again
American Solar Challenge Completed: Blue Went
I read the articles, but I still don't understand what the phrase "Blue Went" in this Slashdot article's title is supposed to mean.. Does "Blue Went" mean "Blue Won" or maybe "Blue Went [the distance]"? I'm baffled again by Slashdot's use of the English language.
cpeterso
Well, thank you kindly!
Sorry. The numbers were to illustrate a point, and I didn't spend the time to actually convert them. And it doesn't matter. The Canadian numbers are the ones quoted in my campus newspaper - so those are the correct ones.
On sunny days, and on flat stretches of highway, the cars hit speeds as high as 110 kilometres an hour.
of course the cars are fairly flat sheets of carbon fiber composite that is only strong enough to support the solar panels, the drivers sits in a sling seat, the cars run on ultralight bicicle wheels and the need to either block of the road or have chase and tail cars to prevent them from getting damaged... definately not ready for prime time.
Do not go gentle into that good night. Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
Let's see. Using the best technology available, the solar car teams learned a great deal about engineering. They also demonstrate just how impractical solar cars are going to be for a while: A one-person vehicle, nothing to speak of in the way of creature comforts, no night driving, no real safety if you get hit by something, etc.
That means any practical electric car is going to need be charged by something other than solar, and unless you want to wait several hours per charge, that means high-speed charging stations. Who has the money to roll out this kind of infrastructure? Oil companies and electric utilities. Where does the electricity come from? Mostly coal, oil, and natural gas.
So even if the world did away with internal combustion engines tomorrow and made every car electric, the major corporation would continue to take in the bucks.
Unless there have been some massive changes in solar array technology, the average solar car's pulling about as much power as standard hair dryer, as that's about all they have to work with.
The speed differences come from motor technology (axial flux motors, developed by um....can't remember his name...a guy from NTU, in australia), which eleminates transmission losses, and from better weight reduction, and more importantly, aerodynamics.
And well, as we all know, SUVs are lacking a bit in that whole 'aerodynamics' area.
What you want isn't a solar car, but another one of GM's little competitions --
http://www.futuretruck.org/
Build it, and they will come^Hplain.
Which 'never had a problem with waste storage" nuclear plant.' do you mean? Since there is no long term storage facility for nuclear waste, so I'd think that all plants have problems with waste storage...
Hail to the Victors Valiant
Hail to the Conquering Heroes
Hail! Hail! To Michigan
The Leaders and Best!
Hail! Hail! To Michigan
The Champions of the West!
Seriously, though, you should all check out the trials this team had to go through. 4 weeks ago, their car was completely wrecked after an episode with some potholes and a ditch. They came back from incredible odds to win this one and it just shows what perseverance and hard work can accomplish. Those of you still in high school should really be thinking about going to this school, no matter what field you're interested in. It really has the best resources you could find anywhere in an undergraduate program, not to mention the caliber of the teachers, the students and the projects. From the engineering campus to the sports arena to the halls of history and literature, NOTHING beats Michigan.
GO BLUE BABY!
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+1 Insightful, -1 Troll. What can I say, I'm an Insightful Troll.
and they did it with less power than it takes to run a hair dryer...
GO BLUE!
Absolutely; yes, they are. Look at their website, link included in many posts here.
"Old man yells at systemd"
I went to Waterloo, and their solar car project is one of the babies of the university. I'm very proud to hear of both Waterloo and Queen's doin' the top 5! I did a 94% in highschool, and Waterloo kicked the crap out of me (Electrical engineering.) It's rumoured that the U of Waterloo's engineering program is one of the top 5 egineering programs (electrical, computer, systems) in north america .. I definately know it's the hardest in Canada.
:)
So go Canada!
"Old man yells at systemd"
WSC is somewhat tougher though. Honda did it in 4 days (kind of - they raced overtime on the last day and copped a penalty, but still won the race). It also goes through the middle of the australian outback, past alice springs, etc... So there's no spot to stop for repairs if something goes wrong. And that damn red dust gets in every possible crevice you can imagine! I had it coming out of EVERYTHING after the race for about a month! (Plus the arrays get dirty). Dave.
Take a look at a site by Simon Cope describing the house he lives in. It was completely powered by solar and wind generation for a few years. He was the first person to ask to be disconnected from the national grid. Then again he was the first to be connected back so he could sell his excess power to the grid. His power meter spins backwards.
BTW, New Zealand may in a few months be facing blackouts because the hydro dams which we use to generate power from are fairly empty. Time to get a UPS and a power cell to go with the solar water heating.
Is the really a test of engineering acumen, or more of a test of who has the most money to throw at the problem?
"Freedom means freedom for everybody" -- Dick Cheney
I live in Canada and have only seen one application for solar cells here - they're used by one of the cities to power lights that let drivers know about school zones. These lights are also hooked up to a normal power line, so the solar cell system has a backup, or vice versa.
My question is this: Will all the research put into more efficient energy conversion trickle down to Joe Sixpack one of these days, or will it be reserved for satellites or applications which are not mission critical?
Not to be pedantic, but this doens't make a whole lot of sense. The heat of the engine comes from wasted energy. I agree that a solar powered car wouldn't be able to be as wasteful as a combustion engine, but that really isn't a design goal.
-no broken link
Yeah, I transfered over to York, where there are no engineering competitions or programs yet - Computer Engineering is starting this fall. I would drop by the Midnight Sun "office" every once in a while this past year (to visit my sister, while in Waterloo). It's really amazing how they pulled together. They were barely together for the qualifier everyone in ASC had to go through. However, they spent more time prepping afterwards, which really helped them gel, and get ready.
Anyways, it was good to see the competition between the Canadian team. Queen's really caught up. They were only 45 minutes behind the Waterloo team overall.
Dan
Here's a vignette from one of her updates:
Apparently, they were the loudest gang out there. Go Team! Now it's prep time for the World Solar Challenge.
The winning car cost over $1M.
I'm sick of you damn crazy hippies complaining all the damn time.
If you hate the oil companies, stop using their products.
It *is* possible to live without them. I believe about 60% of the planet does.
And if you don't want to live in the stone age, do your best to avoid the most obvious oil company products: plastics and gasoline. Use an electric car. Don't use a straw or a plastic lid when you eat fast food. Don't buy polyester clothes (yeah, you're not a pimp anyway). Heat your house with solar panels (which a good friend of mine has been doing since 1989 or so). Stop using certain paints and other coatings on your car/house/toenails. Power your house with energy from a company that uses hydroelectric or nuclear (deregulation can be ok if you're outside California), etc.
If the linux revolution has shown us *anything* it should be that we CAN AVOID THE CORPORATE BEHEMOTHS!
On the contrary, each car has a battery pack that's needed to power the vehicle. Ours had eight. And just because it's during daylight hours doesn't mean there's always sun.
Furthermore, going "as far [as] a requestion [of] the requirements for entry" includes going to a website. You want a cookie for that? If that's going far, then I highly doubt you'd've gone any farther to tackle design, fundraising, and actually building something as complex as a solar car.
Finally, I don't suppose it occurred to you that the designs the teams come up with, while sometimes not directly able to "become actual products", are in fact advancing solar car design. You're probably not going to find a lot of Indy 500 design go straight to your Chevy Malibu, but you can bet that a lot of the technology gets shifted in that direction. Above all, there's more to life than coming up with a product. Building teamwork among the members, gaining experience in your field of study, raising awareness of the possibilities of solar power, and a downright good time seem like pretty good reasons as well to get involved.
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Microsoft is not the answer, Microsoft is the question. The answer is "no".
I will say this, though:
In the desert, there are no clouds 99% of the time, which means it IS always sunny.
A) The race went from Chicago to Claremont, CA. Most of that is not desert.
B) The second day was cloudy. Good luck raycing under your conditions of "few or no batteries at all."
It seems I'm one of the few that sees through that misconception.
Yes, you're right. It's amazing that a script kiddie like you can see the pointlessness in all of this while the folks at MIT, Michigan, Stanford, A&M, Berkeley, and Yale choose to foolishly continue. I think you should give them all a call and share your wisdom.
If you're desinging hovercars, you don't design one that will only work in perfect labratory conditions... That simply wastes time and money of developers that they could be using to make something that would work.
Once again. You ARE right. Henceforth, whenever engineers make something new, they should just skip the lab part and go straight to building third generation prototypes--just think of all the time and money saved not having to learn from generation one and two. Heck, why not save some REAL time and just skip the entire R&D phase in favor of going straight to mass production... What time savings there will be! I think you should make some calls to Ford, Chevy, and Honda, too--they'd be interested in this plan you have.
The technology in Indy cars certainly does not benefit consumer cars in any way. When was the last time you saw a car that went over 200MPH, had a roll cage, etc.
Call Goodyear and ask them why they're interested in Nascar. They'll have lots more to say besides that it's good advertising. But I suppose you're going to tell me that tires are also an "already developed, mature technology," so Goodyear should kill it's R&D department, too, because tires are perfect already. By the way, tell that to Bridgestone/Firestone, too, I'm sure they'd like to know that the recall last year wasn't their fault because that's as good as tires get.
Ciao.
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Microsoft is not the answer, Microsoft is the question. The answer is "no".
Congrats to the #1 rookie team!
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Microsoft is not the answer, Microsoft is the question. The answer is "no".
Then there's the official Midnight Sun site.
Paul
I want to commend those who worked
on the project. Let's Go Blue!
Amazing magic tricks
Canada endorsed the kyoto protocol once credits were put in for forests, which Canada happens to have a lot of (and this help clean our air). In terms of energy production, the vast majority of Canada's electricity is actually produced by hydro-electric damns, which produce no greenhouse gases.
Most of our greenhouse gases come from transportation (duh, the country is huge). This contrasts with the US (and probably the rest of the world) were most of their greenhouse gases is from electricity generation (coal, gas, etc). And if you're a regular slashdot reader then you're well aware of the shortage of electricity in the US, that's probably their main reason for objecting to the Kyoto protocol.
A lot of the pollution in Canada (especially eastern Canada) actually comes from the US, so many Canadians are upset that the US did not sign the protocol.
As you can see, the majority of Canada's electricity is generated by hydro-electricity. Near the end they show the prevailing winds in North America. You can clearly see that the air in the U.S. mid-west get blown into eastern Canada, including Toronto.
I don't know about the US, but the average speed of cars doing the popular journeys (commute, school run, shopping) in the UK is a long way below 70 MPH. IIRC the average speed of a car driving in london was measured down nearer to 10:-).
Besides which you don't need to drive the car totally by solar. If you have a car with some kind of hybred power system and if coverring the flat surfaces with cells cut your fuel/recharging bills by, say, 5%, then that is a win.
(obviously it depends on the cost and efficiancy of the cells, which is what this kind of challange is supposed to drive forward).
_O_
_O_
.|< The named which can be named is not the true named
How is this chaneg in the laws of physics implemented? :-)
this can be easily proven by looking at how vehicles are rated for gas mileage.
Standard IC engines have a most efficiant running speed (hence the gearbox). Also Much of the problem is that you have to keep stopping, turning the kinetic energy you just payed for into heat. There may also be issues of drag and friction from the aerodynamics, the suspension and so on being designed for some range of speeds.
For city use a vehicle should be designed for maximum efficiancy at whatever the average commuting speed is and also have a regenerative breaking system of some kind. Some busses are like this (eg the ones with chuffing great flywheels for energy storage).
_O_
_O_
.|< The named which can be named is not the true named
a) Have few restrictions on design
OR
b) Be restricted to semi-DMV regulations. Aproximating standards a consumer vehicle would need to meet.
Oh was I ever wrong. The rules I read were so strict and odd that any development put into these cars could never be translated into a real product. I wouldn't have any problem believing that the pertolium industry sponsored these races, as they take up the time of solar designers, while the stringent rules ensure no product will be made of the design.
The race was to be held in the middle of the mojave desert, which means no shade to be found, and the entire race held during the dylight hours. In other words, the conditions in which they race would encourage the building of a system with few or no batteries at all. Again, encouraging the design of systems that could never become actual products.
When that tiny, oddly shaped, one-man solar cruiser rolls by you, try to realize that there is no way it could be translated into an actual consumer vehicle. All the solar races being done are teribly anti-productive, and holding back the design of the *perfect* car we've all been told is just around the corner (and they prove how close we are to having our solar cars by showing intreiging solar races).
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Slashdot gets worse every day... Pipedot: News for nerds, without the corporate slant
If you're not going to boycott using oil entirely, you have no business boycotting it in the US.
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I object to Intellect without Discipline.
We are not there yet. The current choice isn't between US oil and alternative sources. It is between US oil and a continued dependance on foreign oil. It's wrong to let OPEC have such power over America's economy.
And why can't we do both anyway? There's no rule that says the government couldn't allow further drilling in various US land and not also fund alternative energy sources.
I also suggest you use a paragraph marker once in a while before you criticize anyone else's grammar.
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I object to Intellect without Discipline.
Hail to those motherfuckers
Hail to those old cocksuckers
Hail! Hail! to Michigan
The cesspool of the West!
Hail to those fornicators
Hail to those masturbators
Hail! Hail! to Michigan
The cesspool of the West!
Sorry, after graduating from Ohio State it just becomes a knee jerk response :^)
Chicago to California is a decent road trip
On another note
On sunny days, and on flat stretches of highway, the cars hit speeds as high as 110 kilometres an hour.
which is starting to be respectable.
"It is a greater offense to steal men's labor, than their clothes"
How about usable, nevermind affordable.
Those things are like fiberglass bikes with
tiny electric motors, handful of electronic
parts and lightest battery possible.
Comfort? Safety? Are you mad? Pushing
on sunlight alone is quite a feat.
This is a academic challenge at best.
Many techologies will come out of it, but
I can't see myself driving solar powered
vehicle even in 100 years. There must be
a dense enegy accamulators, like gas now,
fuel cells, whatever, where densitiy of energy
per cubic centemiter is good enough to
push at least triple weight of me and my
suitcase. Cumilitive energy tanks - whatever
they are will be the future of the transportation.
Why? Because global warming is here,
oil companies need something they can stick
their hands into so they can provide us with
service. Not like I defend them, but it would get
real ugly, oil companies will all over sudden
be obsolete.
Yes, the champions get an automatic invite, and it would kind of be "insulting" for them not to appear.
The rest of the top ten can seriously consider going- they have to do some extra qualifying, but it's not much. I'd say the top five in the ASC should do respectable in the WSC, but I would guess that only the top three (Michigan, UMR, and Waterloo) really have a chance placing somewhat high.
We don't need no Net Explorer We don't need no Thought control
World Solar Challenge is the probably the longest solar car race. It started about 13 years ago. It is scheduled for Nov or Oct this year.
That's great ! I was wondering when the new models would finally become affordable.
"A door is what a dog is perpetually on the wrong side of" - Ogden Nash
All kidding aside, solar cars are ridiculous. It is simply not possible to propel a 2 ton object to sustained speeds of 70mph based only on the solar energy absorbed by the top surface of the vehicle. Ever feel the heat coming of your engine? That's a hell of a lot hotter than your car will get just sitting in the sun. And forget air conditioning -- you are doing MORE work cooling the air from the ambient 80-90 down to 70 than the sun would do raising it to 100. Never mind that the air conditioning is not perfect and will lose a lot of energy from its own operation. The only practical energy solution is hybrid electric with regenerative brakes.
I think there is a serious misunderstanding about the WHY of the Kyoto-protocol here : if we keep burning oil at this rate, the average temperature on earth will rise with 5,8C. (that is about 10F)
The key here is : AVERAGE, some places will heat up by up to 20C, other will get colder, AND : there will be a serious increase of the number and intensity of storms, Furthermore the environment will deteriorate : much more desert, plus a decline in biodiversity.
Yes, I'm left. You have a problem with that?
A UN study : http://www.unep.ch/iucc/fs108.htmm
:http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2001/07/0107 20093052.htm
2 6101653.htm
2 4072410.htm
some recent studies about the temperature rise itself :
BY IPCC : (PDF,long article) http://www.ipcc.ch/pub/spm22-01.pdf
by ipcc : (PDF,Very long, very technical) http://www.ipcc.ch/pub/wg1TARtechsum.pdf
EPA : http://www.lter.uaf.edu/~davev/nrm304/glbxnews.ht
by NCAR
There are already some effects : http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2001/07/0107
overview of effects by region : http://www.ipcc.ch/pub/sr97.htm
We already missed some heating by sheer luck : http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2001/04/0104
Of course, most of these documents are just models, but ARE YOU WILLING TO TAKE A CHANCE ???
Yes, I'm left. You have a problem with that?
isn't everything in the world solar powered?
if it wasn't for the sun, nothing would ever have been alive (dinosaurs), resulting in no fuels such as oil and gas...
indy 500 is just an indirect solar car race.
www.Beyond7.com Insane modern art water sculpture.
Pennsylvania and McMasters? Did Pennsylvania ram them or what? Steal their solar cells? Who's got the scoop?!
Great post! Your message is almost discernable. Congrats, move to the back of the class and put on a helmet.
Im from Canada, and along with many other canadians happy that we finished so highly. GO CANADA!
Your lucky numbers for today: 4, 0, 4.
See the forbiden post Here
Speaking of big corporations and the sun:
"Since the beginning of time man has yearned to destroy the Sun. I will do the next best thing...block it out!" C.M. Burns
I am insulted, for those interested however here it is:
UWaterloo.ca
Midnight sun (the car)
GO WATERLOO!
I like meat helmets.
Manitoba generates almost all of it's electricity from hydro (much of it gets sold to the states) and Ontario has several Hydro dams in the northern part of the province. Quite a bit of the pollution in the southern part of Ontario comes from industry and vehicles, not all of it is from electric generators.
You're not from Ontario, are you? Hydro is in the minority, and with the nukes being shut down, the bulk of Onatrio electricity comes from the 'thermal' generators, i.e. oil, coal and natural gas. When Toronto has air quality alerts, it's from the local smog, not sepage from the States. I think only Quebec generates the majority of its electricity from Hydro, but it's been a while since I worked in the industry, so things may have changed.
www.lucernesys.comHorizon: Calendar-based personal finance
I'm aware of the dams in Northern Ontario, but the reason the nukes were built in the first place was that the dams were tapped out. And, I wasn't implying that the generators were causing the air pollution, I think that in heavily populated areas, the majority of the air pollution comes from vehicles.
www.lucernesys.comHorizon: Calendar-based personal finance
But mummy, mr bush said burning oil wont harm the world as long as our economy is good
Looks like Canada did something right for a change! ;-)
--
At the end of the day,
I'd have to say
that Linux is fucking gay.
Is your company running tools written by ma
Wow, I feel the Miner in my heart swelling with pride already. W3 sur c@n sp33l g00d w1th R 30 ACT.
5000 -1 since Dec 98.
"My fingers Emit sparks of fire in Expectation of my future labours." William Blake
Congrats to the open class and overall winner team, the University of Michigan.
Nobody on here has yet mentioned the stock class where significant monetary and technology limits were placed on the cars. So, I must of course congratulate the University of Arionza, who won the stock class by more than 20 hours.
Bear Down, Arizona!
Ooohh...can we really be like Canada? The puppet of dead empire. Oh, GOODY!
Bad experience is a school that only fools keep going to.
...Mention the first, third, and fourth teams, but leave out second, the University of Missouri - Rolla, which just happens to be my team. :)
They should GPL solar energy before big corps get their grubby little hands on it :^).
SP
Pretty cool, now if they can only get it so that you could power an SUV...
Buy Hex-Rated Stuff, fight the DMCA!
That meant he would have followed with Kyoto protocal and insured that the emmision of gasses related to global wraming would be reduced to the standards of the treaty.
And how much of this did he try to do during his final time in office? He could have laid some of the groundwork in moving the US closer to compliance, even without getting the treaty ratified itself. He WAS president. No saying "he woulda done this" or "he woulda done that". He DIDN'T do.
And I suppose you don't notice Dick Cheney's hand up Bush's ass.
And here I thought only Republicans were overly concerned about what goes on in people's bedrooms...
...now if we could only win more gold medals in the olympics... :)
i've fallen, and i ca...hey! nice carpet!
"I'm not a vegetarian because I love animals. I'm a vegetarian because I hate plants." -- A. Whitney Brown
The Democrats sell us out to big labor? Sure, I guess Reagon was a Democrat when he made it easier for iron factories to use child labor. And I suppose Bush was Democrat when he told us we should use our tax rebate to pay for increased oil prices. He might as well just make the check out to Exxon.
I'm not against oil or drilling, but the new idea of drilling in Alaska is completely useless. We don't need to drill there. What we need to do is spend more time research alternatives (even though the major oil companies would disagree with me, but there are alternatives) so that we won't have to depend on something that is finite and harmful. And you can keep your damn redneck, I would atleast want someone who can speak and think in complete sentences.
And what you say just comes to you? Or do you hear voices? So i didn't click preveiw, sue me.
This drilling is only going to decrease our dependence of foreign oil an estimated 2%. Not to mention, we won't even see the oil for ten years. And I guess the 150,000 caribou that calve their don't mean anything to you either. Just so long as you can drive your car. I wasn't insulting Bush's grammar, just his lack of intelligence. And the fact that he string more than five words teogether without stumbling over them.
The oil companies researching new alternatives, now who is being sheepish? You think drilling in Alaska will have any quicker results?
Sorry, I was feeling a little too republican.
No, Clinton would have done what he was supposed to. But if you like Bush and what he is doing now, then you better get used to the smell of buring coal. *sniff* *sniff*. Smells like good ol' fashion american politics. *coff* *hack*.
That meant he would have followed with Kyoto protocal and insured that the emmision of gasses related to global wraming would be reduced to the standards of the treaty. And I suppose you don't notice Dick Cheney's hand up Bush's ass.
A "real" need? Wake the fuck up! How much more of the ice caps need to melt before there is a "real" need? How much of the ozone layer needs to be depleted before there is a "real" need? There is a real need for this, but since the oil and coal companies don't want to spend the time or money to develope it (mainly because they won't make nearly as much money from it) then we have to sit by and wait.
And I supose there would have been nothing to stop him, right? Do you know how much heat he would have come under from the rest of the 128 countries (you know, the people not as stupid as Bush)? He wouldn't have been able to just talk his way out of this one like he did with other things.
Next time I'll be sure to leave out the sarcasm. It seems to be to much for you to handle.
You have beef with slashdot moderators, not me. They have an email if you really feel that strongly aboot it.
And how many of those places being drilled are wild life preserves?
It seems you have confused democrat with intelligent. I don't belong to any party at all. So these opinions are my own.
You know why he didn't get much done in office? Because of a fucking republican congress.
And it will be right after the hunting season on the stupid. Don't forget to thank me when you are accepting your Darwin Award asshole. Wonder what would happen to you if Cheney found oil under your house.
I don't know how many times I will have to explain this. I am not a democrat. I do not belong to any party at all. I am not a fucking lackey like you. For now, I'll just let you wallow in your stupidity and ignorance.
I'm still not a democrat. And what does my age have to do anything? Don't think that being older than someone makes you smarter.
Someone talking and doing nothing seems much better than someone fucking up the enviroment, upping the acceptable level of toxins in drinking water, and pissing off most of our allies. Ever heard of universal healthcare? You probably haven't. We would have had a healthcare system much like Canada's (you know, the one where people don't have to pay for healthcare) except, guess who (no really, guess), denied the proposed bill. I'll give you one guess as to who proposed it.
And I guess your old ass is pyshic.
Ok, it seems that a misunderstanding has occured. So I'll clear it up. Both parties (any party for that matter) suck. It was aboot time clinton did something and then when he does do something, guess who had to over turn it. Bush's first actions were to overturn anything he could that had been done under clintons office. And he is still doing so. He just recently cut funding for a gun buyback program saying it had "no measurable impact". Unless you count the number of guns bought back (20,000 since 99). But I guess you will just assume I made that up. The only reason I am prone to dislike of republicans more than democrats is that simple fact that they are the more evil of the two parties and one of the more powerful. If the reformist party were as powerful as the republicans, then I would complain aboot them more. And when republicans screw us over it's worse than when democrats do. Because when republicans screw us over it also screws the enviroment and our health. And I don't know aboot you, but I'm more concerned with my health instead of my pocket book. (which both parties are after)
Moron, Canada's healthcare system (you know, the one where people don't have to pay for treatment) would have been a blue print.
Once he did something, guess what, bush stops it and now you blame him? I don't think he gives a shit. But atleast he can be pressured into doing something good. Bush wouldn't even compromise. On anything! All bush wants is money. And that is all clinton wanted. Clinton on the other hand pretended to care and did things when he knew he had to to keep a good image. Bush is too stpuid to even do that.
Wow! His daddy bought him degrees. It doesn't take a genius to graduate with a C- average. And he was a fighter pilot for the National Guard during the Vietnam War and that's only so he can say he was in the army during the war so that people wouldn't call him a wussy and he could save face with conservatives. Bush never once left Texas during the war. It's the same thing as Gore being a roving reporter that never once went near the front lines. And a business man? His daddy bought him an oil company and bush ran it into the ground. I don't call him stupid because democrats call him stupid. I call him stupid because he is stupid.
Well, what does calling me stupid make you? I know, it makes you a hypocrite. Do you really think "Dubya" became a fighter pilot because he wanted a challenge? Or because he wanted to serve his country? He was a fighter pilot out of convience (the same reason bill is still married to hilary), so he could say "Yes, I served my country during the war" and yet he never left Texas the whole time. Filter? Please take off the beer goggles and come into reality. You praise a business man that ran the business into the ground? Now, who is deluded?
Gee, wonder who bought him that team and who told him to sell it.Do something sooner? You have been dooped by bullshit. It wasn't clinton's idea to lower the level, it has been proposed many times before by the EPA. I begin to wonder what science classes you took. Just type arsenic into the google search engine and it will show what health risks arsenic HAS been linked to. But why bother? You will probably just say that I'm googles lackey and it's all a conspiracy to convince us that arsenic is bad when in it's really not. Wake up!! If it wasn't harmful and democrat treehuggers were just trying to tell us it's harmful, then they would have come with some fake cure or treatment through herbs to sell at a high price.
Now, if you could get out of your kindergarten mind set that the older someone is then the smarter (translation: pull your head out of your ass), I'm not praising clinton for doing that. But I would like to think that the less harmful substances the better. But I guess the treehuggin' hippies of the EPA were lying when they said that it would have "cut health risks from arsenic for 11 million people".
Which is more important, the man who screwed you over then or the man that's screwing you over right now. And just because there was majority on the same party doesn't mean that they would have all voted. Just being members of the same party doesn't mean people act, think, and vote the same way (the name Jim Jeffords come to mind).
I said we MAY not be aware of nuclear capabilities. Believe it or not, america is not doesn't know EVERYTHING. I'm not trying to be a conspiracy theorist, but there is still a possibility that there is something america doesn't know (and in case you know nothing aboot the military, that is the mind set they always have because they know they can't afford to take chances). (hypocrisy alert) Just because I didn't say that america monitors these things (and everything they can for that matter) doesn't mean I am unaware of it. And do you think MAD isn't working or something? It has been working for a some time now and will continue to do so. Outmatched in health care? How is that? Do you know why presciption drugs cost half as much in Canada (couldn't have anyhting to do with their health care system now could it)? And it is not as if people in america going to get drugs there is taking money away from Canada. If it was, then the Canadian government would do something to stop it.
And like the good little republican nazi shithead you are, you have only been able to keep in stride with the "no real risk" and "need more scientific data" and "other countries are bad" that have been trademarks of the party. So just sit tight in your little dellusional world and make beleive that your glorious leader will save us all from hippies (cause hippies are obviously evil). But just for that sake of others, stop spouting off your retro-political rhetoric, because it didn't work in the 80's and it's not going to work now.
As for the "cost effective" measures, a $20 water filter isn't going to get arsenic out of water. And calling someone a nazi doesn't always imply race, when I called you a nazi, I meant it in the since that you are a follower that beleives anything he/she is told to beleive and will defend it at all costs. It's the same as when someone calls someone else a grammar nazi. It's called figurative language. And the fact that you would "invoke" a "law" that was made solely to keep people from slinging mud proves how much of a hypocrite you really are. You have repeatedly called me "junior" (which IS a derugatory term for a youth) and labeled me a democrat post after post and then precede to tell me that I am slinging mud. You are a very pathedic person. To take this so seriously shows you have little to do in your life (and most likely have done little at that). You now force me to show you the true power of the force.
Actually, Bush is spending more money to "burn more coal". That is an actual quote.
...people would relize we could expand on this and other forms of clean energy instead of spending money to burn coal.
As a recent grad from Queen's. I must says this to everyone.